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Goblin Squad Member. FullStarFullStarFullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 1,364 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 26 Pathfinder Society characters.


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I'm going to de-rail this thread and ask if you've taken a look at the Slayer class.

While you do loose some of the fighter feats, you gain LOTs of skill ranks, the Slayer Talents (access to Ranger fighter styles), plus study target and sneak attack.

1) Stone Soul
2) Slayer Talent-Ranger Style: Weapon & Shield - Feat: TWF
3) Imp Shield Bash
4) Slayer Talent- Rogue Talent-Combat Trick- Feat: Double Slice
5) Hurtful
6) Slayer Talent-Ranger Style: Weapon & Shield - Feat: Shield Master
7) Imp TWF
8) Slayer Talent- Your choice, maybe Rogue Talent Weapon Training for weapon focus.
9) Power Attack
10) Slayer Talent-Ranger Style: Weapon & Shield - Feat: Bashing Finish

While you're giving up some stuff, getting access to some feats early, Study Target, sneak attack damage, and lots more skill ranks I think more then make up for it.

The above feat progression could be tweaked better as I just tossed it together in 5 minutes.

Simplified to balance -

Give everything the 'Advance Template'. That roughly means adding +2 to everything; +2 initiative, +2 to hit, +2 damage, +2 AC, +2 to all saves, 2 levels more of health.

Double the number of minions they are fighting and give the bosses a "hard core" setting. Hard core = going twice in a round.

Most AP are designed for 4 players with a 15 point buy. Might be your problem there.

Only problem I have with high level casters - if grappled, end game for them.

There's a number of ways they can prevent this but if pulled out of a book, 99.9% of them don't have any of these defenses.

Here's a crazy idea -

Warpriest / Druid

Another thing you can try is having it summon up some servants to get rid of some "pests".

Think my biggest worry when I see someone with a low stat score is ability damage. Having a 6 or lower in any ability means you can be knocked down to zero and out of combat with just one hit. 7 through 10 usually requires at least 2 hits.

Also think if you're determined to go with that stat array, you'd probably do better with the Mouser - Swashbuckler archetype.

Couple comments - my personal opinions.

I do not like any of the magus's archetypes that give up spell slots or spell recall (which might be all of them). Those spells are just too handy and spell recall gives you a bit of flexibility on which spells you choose to memorize for the day.

Have played both a Str and Dex based magus. Liked the Str overall a lot better then the Dex based magus. While Strength is more MAD for stat placements, it just seemed to open up more options and greater flexibility to me. While Dex is nice, you're going to be worthless the first couple of levels you play as you wont be doing damage and you'll have to wait till you burn a couple of feat slots to get that damage.

Spell of choice: (2nd level) Frigid Touch
Does decent damage, 4D6 cold the big thing is it staggers what you hit.
If you can pick up a wand of this and the wand arcana, go crazy.
Also works wonders if you put this spell in a spell storing armor. Some creature full attacking you with lots of attack? Trigger the armor on the first hit. Creature is now staggered and has to stop.

possible 20 point buy -
STR 16+2; DEX 12; CON 14; INT 14; WIS 12; CHA 7

I'd be very tempted to go Dual Talent (from Advance Race Guide) and give up that extra feat and extra skill point to go +2 Str & +2 Int (brings you up to 16 Int)

Have some questions -

1) Are you planning on going 'pure' magus or multiclass, maybe with rogue?
If you're MCing you'll be loosing out on a fair amount of good magus class features and spells. Still MCing with a rogue can be a fun class to play.

2) Will traits be allowed in your game?
Traits can play a very big part in a magus's creation.

3) Stats - What stats are you using and do you want a STR or DEX base magus?
Both have their pluses and minuses.

4) What's the level range of campaign and access to magical gear?

What I've found that works for me, is that you want to either go as a 'pure' magus for the access to spells and spell casting or just a couple levels (two or three) dip into the magus for access to spell combat and the first level utility spells (also helps with saves).

You still going with a 6 Strength?

There's no way I can see you being any type of melee character and not be encumbered. You're max weight is just 15 LBs (for small size). Any type of armor and weapon will max that out real quick.
If you decide to stay with the 6 STR be sure you have a breakdown of your gears weight you can show the GM.

If you're planning on using the Crossbow, I've heard that 5 levels of Gunslinger Archetype that uses crossbows can make them very deadly.

I've found going with the spell: Shield of Faith helps a lot with warpriest "tankyness". Usually that's spell deflection bonus is +1 better then you can afford with a ring of protection. Then if equipped with full plate you should have a pretty decent AC. Your Touch will be horrid but you can't have everything.

Reach Weapon + Enlarge (by spell or potion) = Battlefield control.

I'd suggest a 2handed reach weapon. Nothing says agro like big damage that can tag you.

I'd probably just add one or two more monsters to help balance out the power level. If feeling like giving them a real challenge, a caster with some long duration protection spells on them.

Question -
Are your monsters hitting yhe PCs?

If the answer is 'yes', everything is working as it should. AC always scales slower then the bonus 'to hit'.

The real trick is your smart monsters need to play smart. Have them try to avoid Full Attacks from the PCs. Dumb monster play, well, dumb.

Also, most Adventure Paths are designed for 4 players with 15 point buy.
Stronger and more characters does change the balance.

Feat: Expert Sniper
Source: Dirty Tactics Toolbox (if remembered correctly)

Bah! Can't find the exact rules for sniping. It's in the stealth rules somewhere.

Roughly what the rules is -
Full round action, make a ranged attack and make a stealth check at -20 to avoid people knowing where the attack came from.
If successful, no one knows where the attack came from.

There's a couple feats (Expert Sniper is one), magic items/enchants, plus racial abilities that can help reduce the penalties or increase your stealth check for sniping.

In something like this, I usually require the players to set their own backgrounds. I do give them a brief outline of the areas history and politics and ask them to come up with a background and why they are adventuring together.

Worse comes to worse, greed and power always works.

Don't forget the mirror maze with giant white lab rats.
Plus breaking the 'mirrored walls' bad, na-ha, don't want to do that. Maybe a sign saying that ^_^.
You get to decide what happens, maybe a evil clone of the person that broke the 'mirror' or save vs a bad luck curse?

Reflex saves - maybe, since we're talking house rules here, I'd say it depends a lot on the spell used and where it's centered at (assuming it's AoE). I might give partial cover (+2) as a bonus for hugging the ground, unless it went off above you, then (-2).

Stealth bonus - there's already rules in for sniping. I'd have to use those for game consistently. Might give a bonus if you have cover depending on its type.

Warpriests are in the Hybrid section of classes.

The biggy thing for them is any standard buff spell they cast on themselves they can cast as a swift action without drawing AO.

This allows them to wade into combat, full attacking and toss a buff spell like Divine Power on themselves.

They do suffer a penalty of a slow spell progression and lack of any real channeling ability.

Couple questions-

1) Do you have a deity or type of domain you want your cleric to worship?

2) Race?

3) Channel positive or negative (cure vs inflict)?

4) Will you get race adjustments for your stats?

5) Archetypes allowed?
Have you looked at the Warpriest? This is a very marshal cleric but you have a slower spell progression and can not cast cleric spells higher then the 6th rank.

Completely different and might require some rebuilding is getting the feat - Hellcat Stealth. Let's you make a hide check in plain sight while in normal light.

Check out the race: Tiefling with the tail racial ability.

Pricing out feats are going to be hard. Putting out a aura that buffs creatures you can sort of price out by figuring out what it would cost with a permancy for that spell type. Then adjust to where you're happy.

I built myself a dagger twf warpriest of pharasma.

While the character was heavily mad, it was also very deadly.

Gallant Armor wrote:
That seems reasonable. Your lowest stats shouldn't be so bad that you have to worry about ability score damage/drain bringing you down easily.

Yah...I'm used to point buy, actually favor it because I usually roll crazy (either really low or really high. Dice are 'swingy'), while others always seem to have good dice rolls.

So doing it with 4D6 drop low, and re-roll if under 10 can make for some crazy strong characters.

The only problem with a melee type alchemists is their mutagens usual effect their dump stat. Then if you face off against a creature that can target that, now very low, after mutagen, dump stat, you'll be in a serious world of hurt.

Have never played a Alchemist but the ones I've seen played have all been crazy good at what they do.

I personally like the Hunter (Advance class guide) over the Cavalier.

While the Hunter isn't as 'martial' over the Cavalier, the Hunter is more 'flexible' in the stuff he can do compared to the Cavalier. Plus the Hunter gives you access to most of the cure line of spells that druids have.

I have very mixed feeling on the Summoned. Have seen way too many of the original class Summoner dominate a Pathfinder table. There's just too many ways they can destroy a DMs encounter with their summoned creatures.

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About crafting the gems - somewhere, I believe in the crating rules, there's rules on how long it takes to craft a item per gp value. Better skill rolls, shorter time.

Some one on their team is going to need profession miner to run the mine.

Simple Hard Hitter -

Normal Dwarven Barbarian that uses a Large Dwarven Waraxe (2D8 damage)

STR 18 (17), DEX 14 (5), CON 14+2 (5), INT 7 (-4), WIS 8+2 (-2), CHA 9-2 (-1)

Anything he hits at first level should be one shorted dealing 2D8+9 raging. If you pick up Power Attack as your first feat, that's 2D8+11. Does suffer the -2 to hit modifier for using a Large weapon but who cares! You get +2 to hit from your increased strength while raging.

If you can get Enlarged - you're now dealing 3D8+12 while power attacking.

Louise Bishop wrote:
Claxon wrote:

Since the fast healing only functions while you are raging it's not worth it in my opinion. If you could get fast healing on a permanent basis, that might be worth it.

I would rather suggest to you that you simply play the arcane bloodline bloodrager. With the ability to instantly have displacement on yourself while raging at level 8 (blur at level 4) as well as resist energy on the fly or other useful effects like haste or spider climb you can really amp up your defenses on the fly. Negating an attack with displacement will likely prevent a lot more damage than the fast healing would heal over the course of combat.

I play it myself on a Arcane bloodrager.

50% miss chance, Fast healing, DR, protector familiar, Come and get me, and resist energy.

I soloed Skulls and Shackles Final boss fight with all his adds and still was over 50% health after the fight. Did it at level 12 and -28k gp. So I know the build is really good.

One group bans me from playing a Bloodrager cause how it throws the encounter challenge off balance to where the DM would slaughter everyone else before challenging the build.

It's funny how many opinions are like:
It's only while raging but you should do X cause while your raging you get....

That DR 2 will not save you either from being bursted down. But your insane health and layered defenses will help you recover from it with the spell eater builds.

Louise Bishop, can you please post your build?

I'm interested in seeing what and where you put your Feats/Powers.

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This is midnight rambling, so if this doesn't make sense, I'm posting half asleep.

Have a build idea for a H-Orc Spelleater Bloodrager. By using 4 feats of on the build, I can get something like Fast Healing 6. Without spending any feats, I have just Fasthealing 2.

Question is - Is it worth investing 4 feats for this?

Feat build at moment
1) Race: Endurance; Bloodline; Bloodrage; Fast Movement; Feat: Diehard
2) Spell Eater (Fast healing - Su); +1 BAB/Fort
3) Blood Sancturary; Feat: Fast Healer (get half CON for magical healing - Heal 4 HP while raging)
4) Blood Casting; Blood Power; Eschew Materials; Spells
5) Spell Eating (heal *D8 as swift); Feat: Raging Vitality (Heal 5 HP while raging)
6) Bloodline Feat: Power Attack
7) Spell Eater+ (Heal 6 HP while raging)

Vanish - I prefer on using that spell on others. It is a 'creature touched' targeted spell. Used on someone with SA and that person would be extremely happy.

Magic Items: There is a very nice staff that can fire 2 magic missiles a turn that's reasonable in cost. Forgot the name but believe it's in the ACG.
If buying consumables - You can always purchase a higher level spell as a scroll. The checks to get the spell off are pretty easy. While there is a slight chance to fail, the odds should heavily be in your favor.

Check = D20 + your CL
have to beat the
Scroll DC = Spell caster level +1

There's a number of very good 3rd level spells that you'd need to roll a 2 or better on a D20 to get to go off with a scroll.

Be sure and take the arcane discovery that allows you to DimDoor. This will help vs grapplers and/or variant negative channneling classes by keeping your distance/escaping.

If this is a home game, I'd ok the tetori monk with your GM. While they are a one trick class, they're obscenely powerful using that trick.

This gives rise to the GM having to build encounters around stopping your class abilities, which then ends up with you not really being able to do much of anything. Not fun for either of you.

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You've pretty much have covered everything for a well traveled road. Only thing I can think of are bridges and government check points (example of something like the weigh stations on interstate roads in the US.)

You could also have a one off, special event section. Just dealing with rare 'happenings'. Stuff like a run away Royalty to a invading army.

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This is a firm and fast rule for just about every table I've seen run -

The GM is always right.
If there is a disagreement, you have 30 seconds to try and convince the GM. Otherwise wait till after the game session is over with and you can talk with the GM about rules then.

If you do not like the way the GM is running the game, you have two choices -
(1) Leave the table. We're sorry to see you go.
(2) Stop arguing with the GM.

But as a GM it's also your responsibility to give clear, consistent rulings. Plus give the player a warning that you disagree with a action before the dice are rolled.

There have been a number of times where I was GMing and didn't know the ruling of something, tossed it open for a quick table discussion, then made my own ruling on it. Then after the gaming session looked up the rule or tossed up a post on the forums.


I'm planning on running Ire of the Storm for our PFS group and I'm wondering how the heck I'm going to deal with Part 2: Beyond the Colony.
While I do have some ideas into pointing the party into the right direction for some of the 'events', others I have no idea on how to get the party there.

Hopefully someone can give me pointers in how they got their PFS parties heading into the right directions to get all the clues they needed to get to Part 3.

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Roboctopus wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Hmmm, that I don't know. Based on how Arcane Tricksters operate, probably not.
Hmm. Others are saying on forums that they can do SA with Touch Spells... So it may still be useful... I am conflicted.
I can't recall any rule saying that SA needs to be performed with a weapon. You need an attack roll and HP damage. No reason a touch spell wouldn't work. You're just applying your shocking grasp to a vital spot.

It's not that the SA has to be performed with a weapon, it's that Sneak Attack is usually considered physical damage, which is affected by Damage Reduction.

Granted, there is a FAQ regarding Sneak Attack with Scorching Ray, but I find that you still have to have the Arcane Trickster capstone in order to actually apply Sneak Attack to it, since that is the entire point of the Arcane Trickster capstone.

Actually not true.

You can apply SA to any damage type as long as you make a attack roll and target allows SA damage.

The Arcane Trickster cap ability allows applying SA to ANY spell that deals damage.
Example: Spell - Fireball you can't apply SA damage, no attack roll. With Arcane Trickster cap ability that Fireball can now deal SA damage if targets are flat footed.

I cheated a bit with my unchained rogue. I took 2 levels of magus and as long as I can make a concentration check I get to attack twice with spell combat.

Did burn a feat for casting defensively and a trait to boost it by +2 but I think the trade offs were worth it.

Little bit different and I have no idea how it would work - just something that came up while a group of us were b&*#*#@!ting around a pfs table.

Occultist using the transmutation implement (sword).

I think there's a archetype (or maybe just using the sword implement) that could also work for what you're trying to do.
Just something to be a bit different from all the magus floating around in PFS.

Versatile Weapon (3rd level Wizard) - allows weapon to bypass (count as) most DR.

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Brown pants...just for those "Oh, #%¥$!" situations.

Something lurking in the Shadow plane came for a visit.

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I'm still hanging around and chuckling over some of the posts in this thread.

It's also one of those items that if it gets mentioned, sooner or later, someone will go out of their way just to do something exactly like this.

If you're mainly after these feats to help protect someone. I've found just using the Reposition rules works a lot of the time. Using Reposition does use up your turn but if it does save someone, it's a good use of your turn.

Go to d20 web site and click on the Feats > Style Feats for a quick preview of them. Off the top of my head -

Crane Style and Snake Style are two of the style feat lines that might work. There might be a couple more but think those are the main ones.

There's also the Bodyguard Feat line if you want something to protect others. Not sure what's all for the Bodyguard feat line.

There are some classes/archetypes that grant your character feats, even if you don't meet the requirements. Off hand, I can't think of any for Power Attack.

There is a work around (with magic) by getting a enhancement bonus to your strength so you can then be legal to get the feats. Does face the problem of if you loose that enhancement bonus, you loose that feat till everything is back on line again.

There are a couple Style feats that do something very similar to Cut from the Air. Depending on your build, they might actually work better for you then Cut from the Air.


Thanks, thought it was but wanted to make sure.

Found the Parts 2 & Part 3 in the discontinued folder but couldn't find Part 1 anywhere.


Is the First Steps Part 1 still legal for PFS play?

I know parts 2 and Parts 3 can not be played legally in PFS but I can't find First Steps Part 1 and if it's legal or illegal.

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