|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
Nobody even wants to like the summoner.
Objection! The summoner's flavor makes it one of my favorate classes, and I know that I'm not the only one. ;)
Admittedly though, the class does needs one of the following to not mess up a game: a rework, gm supervision, or a very well prepared and trustworthy player running it.
Beastmorph Alchemists get pounce as well at level 10. I would also call the Dimensional Dervish feat chain a varient of pounce since you can get full attacks out of it.
Plus, archers are superior to pouncers in general since they basically get to make a full attack and ignore DR at the same time....
Be careful about calling for one or two things to get nerfed when there are 10 other options that do the same thing. All you'll do is make the other options more popular.
Oh, and of course ... NO ALIGNMENT.
Not sure that Alignment actually needs to go, but I could see it's impact getting reduced so that 'normal people' are essentially all netural no matter what they believe. You'd have to be directly associated with a god or some other power in order to have a strong enough alignment for it to matter.
The main thing that would need to be fixed in a new edition is preventing the game's numbers from getting out of wack at high levels. It is beyond annoying that saving throws and BAB diverge so much at high levels. It is possible to work around it, but I wish it wasn't an issue in the first place.
In addition, the 'big six' magical items need to all be destroyed and never seen again. I hate it when I see some fancy magical item with a great and fun ability, and then have to say "I can't use that, because I would die without my Cloak of Resistance". I would like choosing magical items to become an actual choice again.
To me, the real annoyance with skinwalkers is that several of their mental stat bonuses are only applied when shifted. Not only does this not make sense thematically since the shift is supposed to be more physical than mental, it also hoses skinwalker spellcasters and special ability users. Unless they stay in their shifted form for an entire day they don't get bonus spells per day or extra ability uses from that mental stat.
If I houserule anything about skinwalkers, it will be that they gain their physical stats bonus while shifted and the mental ones will be perminant.
Just a thought. Since Pathfinder Kitsune have a bit of a fey theme, they could probably also fit into a fey themed Player Companion. After all, their semi homeland seems to bet the Forest of the Spirits and Kitsune who aren't from that area generally know Sylvan. Plus, just look at the spells they get from the Magical Tail chain... definitely fey/trickery themed spells.
Though, I'm betting that this setup is probably unlikely (or would mean getting very little info on kitsune) since I be there are a lot of other fey related things that Paizo wants to talk about first. Still, I figured it was worth mentioning since a fey themed book is probably more likely to come out than a 'blood of beasts' or kitsune focused book.
I do have to point out that it messes with my suspension of disbelief when every time a party member dies he is randomly replaced with someone who just *happens* to have the same powerlevel and goals as the rest of the party. Especially at mid to high levels.
I'd rather have Raise Dead in the game than replacement character silliness.
Honestly, I think the swashbuckler is exactly why Crane Wing is getting nerfed. A lot of people were talking about how the best swash build was to pick up Crane Wing so you could deflect TWO attacks per round. One with Crane Wing, and one with Parry.
Well... at least if this isn't the main reason, it is probably part of it.
Personally, I've found that the best way to keep casters 'under control' is just to give the enemies that you don't want getting one-shot some Hero Points. At least three. Casters will have to go through four 'one shot kill' spells to get through the guy's defenses unless you get some really unlucky rolls on those GM dice. That'll give melee plenty of time to move in and do their thing.
Personally, I would suggest just having the smite work against everything that the paladin would normally get his double damage bonus from smiting. This basically means evil outsiders (or rather, ones that have the evil subtype), chromatic dragons, and undead. You may also want to allow them to smite people who are clerics of gods that the paladin opposes.
So, basically, this means the paladin will be less effective fighting say... a thieves guild or corrupt officials, but will still be fully capable of smiting the big bads.
You may want to consider letting the paladin do a 'partial smite' against other targets to balance things out. In my games I replace Aura of Justice with the ability for paladins to smite non-evil things. They gain their charisma bonus to hit and AC, but no damage bonus or DR penetration. I got tired of paladins becoming useless in areas filled with golems, and I also didn't like the absurd damage boost that a party gets from Aura of Justice.
It can actually be a very effective character since there is a mythic power that lets you get a BAB equal to your caster level when polymorphed. Just make sure you have the Magical Knack trait to undo the caster level loss. (I am starting this type of character for a game)
I like this idea actually.
Alright, I have to raise my hand and ask a question here. Why can't the Swashbuckler simply get a straight Cha to saves bonus at level 2? Even with this direct copy of one of the best paladin abilities, the class may still be worse than a paladin in most games except for ones with no evil creatures to smite.
The way things are, almost all (Lawful Good) swashbucklers will simply dip two levels into paladin to pick up those save bonuses and smite evil. They don't really lose much for it.
Actually, here is an idea that may fit bloodragers well: allow them to 'burn' rounds of rage in order to cast a spell as a swift action. The number of rounds of rage they have to expend would be equal to the level of the spell.
This would make it possible for them to cast in combat, but they woudln't be able to do it all the time because it would be expending a limited resource. Plus, the fact that the resource being expending is 'rage' it fits the theme of the class perfectly. Plus, they may be able to make do with just the Magus spell list instead of getting a custom one!
Edit: an alternative idea would be that the bloodrager could expend rounds of rage to add metamagic to their spells. This would give them a choice between casting quickly in mid melee combat (via quicken) or casting a spell that does noteworthy damage (via maximize or similar). With this variation, the number of rounds of rage expended would equal the level required by the metamagic feat.
The unfortunate thing here is that there really isn't a way for bloodrager spells to be worth using in mid combat without giving them Spellstrike, Spell Combat or some similar way of casting while attacking. This may be stealing too much from the magus though, so maybe a better route would be to simply give bloodragers more magic based powers and defenses so they are more paladin-like?
Alternatively, bloodragers could get an alternate list similar to the Paladin or Ranger. All of the best spells from those lists use swift or immediate actions, and that may fit the bloodrager's style more.
At least Paizo has several routes they can choose to go with in modifying this class.
So, a lot of people have been asking whether or not the Draconic Bloodline for Bloodragers should work with Dragon Disciple. After thinking about the implications of this, I say It should, because otherwise it will cause some interesting problems.
Option 1: The Bloodrager's Draconic Bloodline is advanced by Dragon Disciple
Option 2: The Bloodrager's Draconic Bloodline is NOT advanced by Dragon Disciple (weirdness)
So, I've begun putting together a Draconic Bloodline Bloodrager for PFS. The character looks like he'll be an effective level 1 character, but I have concerns about higher levels.
I'm guessing that someone has already mentioned this one, but I want to point it out just in case.
I'm currently building a Kitsune Swashbuckler, and I've found one issue that kind of bothers me: technically you need a the Combat Reflexes feat in order to use the Riposte Deed. This is because you would have already used one for Parry.
It seems very odd that a class ability would not be able to even function without feat investment. That AoO requirement should either be removed or the Swashbuckler should get Combat Reflexes for free.
Mystic Lemur wrote:
Unfortunately, Paizo is a company with limited time and money. They can't spend an infinite amount of time coming up with new class ideas and throwing out old ones. Time spent throwing away, replacing, or rebuilding even *one* class will make the rest of the book suffer because in all likelihood they will not be able to delay the book for very long (if at all) before it has to go to print.
Basically, just give whatever feedback you can about the existing classes to try and help Paizo improve them. Telling them to throw away or replace any of these these is extremely likely to just be a waste of time. The biggest change that we can probably expect to see is probably something similar to what happened to the gunslinger during its playtest.
Hybrid Classes fail to offer new niches, unnecessary reiterate old classes and dilute support for existing classes.
Slayer is a great example. It's basically a 20 level Assassin class, designed for and taking out individual targets. It's sneaky like the rogue, but isn't focused on trapfinding or being a jack of all trades. The class is intentionally designed for someone who mostly wants to play a sneaky killer, and not have to worry or deal with other class features that don't support that.
This is exactly why I love the Slayer class. Also, my players are going to be very upset to find that all the red mantis that they run into from now on are very likely to have Slayer levels... :D
I love this class, but I think I should mention a few possible issues that I've noticed:
The Fey bloodline seems underpowered compared to most of the other choices. Here a perfect example: at 8th level the Arcane bloodline gets Displacement or Haste for their entire rage while fey just gets Blur for one round after a charge. Bloodragers get uncanny dodge, so the blur is inferior in every way here.
The Draconic bloodline gets the fly spell one level after they gain the ability to grow wings. Seems somewhat counterproductive, though I guess it could be cast on allies.
Is it just me, or is the abyssal bloodline way too good damage wise? Between its free enlarge (+2 size bonus strength and weapon die increase) and +6 strength bonus by level 20 it seems pretty crazy. I won't be surprised if they use the standard abyssal bloodline to get another +6 inherent bonus to strength as well! They are a bit weak on the defenses though and will overall have an extra -4 to their AC, but is that enough of a balancing factor?
Edit: I would like to recommend that the strength bonus from the abyssal bloodline be an inherent bonus (somehow) in order to prevent things from getting too crazy by stacking this with the sorcerer version of the bloodline.
They Fey bloodline suffers from a flavor problem. How many fey creatures really use strength? Maybe this bloodline should get a bonus to dexterity while raging either in addition to or instead of strength?
Now that I have been able to look over my hard copy of Blood of the Moon I have to say that it seems this book may have been hurt by the page limitations of the player companion. Paizo had to use 18 pages to do the skinwalkers justice (with some side notes on standard lycans of the same types), and then only had 2 remaining to talk about plain old lycanthropy without removing the items and lunar oracle pages. It practically screams "we wanted to say more, but ran out of space".
I'm happy that we got so much information on skinwalkers, but it is sad that we will probably never get stuff like "how to balance a party once it has an infected lycanthrope" simply because there wasn't any space in this book.
I helped a player in a S&S game that I'm in design a watersinger. You basically have two builds that you're going to need to choose between in the long term. I call them the 'waterbender' build and 'bloodbender' build.
In either case, your charisma is your most important stat. Max it. Also check with your gm that the feats and abilities listed below well actually improve your attacks, because some of this is up to GM interpretation.
Build 1: The Waterbender
Build 2: The Bloodbender
I'm pretty sure that I've cast Glitterdust at a vampire at least once already...
The mythic handbook looks very offensive focused at first... but once you read into it a bit you'll see that it has a ton of very powerful defensive abilities as well. The thing is, most of these defensive abilities are 'active' defenses. You have to choose to use them to protect yourself, or you have to rely on a guardian or marshal to keep you alive.
Here's a copy of a list that I've posted elsewhere....
Save Bonuses and Rerolls
AC Bonuses and defenses against attacks
Extra hit points and protection from damage
(I'm posting this independent of any previous discussion :) )
For anyone who is worried that mythic powers are too offensive focused... take a look at this list. Basically, with all this, if you don't have enough defenses it is your own fault. The design is interesting actually. Defense is an 'active' ability in this book. You have to rely upon your mythic powers to survive rather than just high saving throw bonuses and HP.
Save Bonuses and Rerolls
AC Bonuses and defenses against attacks
Extra hit points and protection from damage
When I was reading the mythic rules, I found that there is an inconsistency between the powers that the Archmage and Hierophant mythic paths can choose from. Specifically: it takes the Archmage an extra action to use their archmage arcana.
The Archmage can gain the Arcane Surge or Wild Arcana powers. These are very nice abilities, but require the Archmage to use his swift action to activate them . However, the Hierophant powers Inspired Spell and Recalled blessing don't require a swift action to use even though they are otherwise mechanically identical to the Archmage powers (unless I am mistaken).
I find it hard to believe that this difference was intentional, so I'm assuming that one ability is worded incorrectly. I mean, why would the arcane casters specifically be required to use an additional action to use an ability that doesn't require an extra action for a divine caster? Should these abilities require swift actions to activate, or should they not?
Sorry for not formatting these spoilers, it would take a while to deal with all this text ;)
Arcane Surge (Su): As a swift action, you can expend
one use of mythic power to cast any one arcane spell
without expending a prepared spell or spell slot. If you
prepare spells, this spell must be one you prepared today
(even if you have already cast it); if you’re a spontaneous
caster, this spell must be one of your spells known. If the
spell requires a saving throw, any non-mythic creatures
affected by the spell roll twice and take the lower result.
If you must attempt a caster level check for the spell to
overcome a creature’s spell resistance, you can roll your
caster level check twice (adding your tier to each) and take
the higher result. You can’t add a metamagic feat to a
spell you cast using this ability.
Wild Arcana (Su): As a swift action, you can expend one
Hierophant Divine Surges:
Inspired Spell (Su): You can expend one use of mythic
power to cast any one divine spell, treating your caster
level as 2 levels higher. This spell must be on your divine
spell list (or your domain or mystery spell list) and must
be of a spell level that you can cast using that divine
spellcasting class. If you are a spontaneous spellcaster,
you don’t need to have the spell prepared, nor does it need
to be on your list of spells known. Using this ability does
not expend a prepared spell or available spell slot. You
can apply any metamagic feats you know to this spell,
but its total spell slot level must be a slot level you can
Recalled Blessing (Su): You can expend one use of mythic
Strife, I have the same concerns that you have. It seems right to assume that the current rules interpretation supports spell-like abilities gaining bonuses that are meant for spells... but since there hasn't been any FAQ flat out stating this I'm a bit wary about using this interpretation.
The one solid piece of evidence we have though is that devs have stated that the Summoner's Summon Monster SLA benefits from the Augment Summon feat even though the feat says it only benefits spells. They even gave the Master Summoner archetype the Augment Summon feat, so I guess we have to assume that the rules support this.
I'm hoping this is the case, because I'm thinking of building a PFS kitsune sorcerer with the magical tail feats... and it would be kind of sad of the SLAs from those feats don't benefit from his own racial bonuses.
Ouch. I appreciate that we have the retraining rules now, but that 1 prestige point per day thing makes them almost impossible to use for anything except for the simplest modifications. If my level 5 sorcerer wanted to retrain his bloodline, I'd have to burn 15 prestige points and the cost will just go up as he continues to gain levels!
Edit: If I'm supposed to spend extra days to retrain my bonus spells as well, the cost goes up to 21 prestige points at level 5... I'd have to spend almost the full number of prestige points that are available to the character.
What class is the kitsune playing?
If he is a caster, the simple solution is to just have the character have a number of tails equal to the highest spell level that he can cast, but gain no bonuses from them. He gains the flavor of being a multi-tailed fox without possibly nerfing himself into oblivion.
The thing that I find a little sad is that many people (including myself) have been asking Paizo for more FAQs because we want the rules to be more clear. Now that we have more FAQs people are asking Paizo to stop giving us FAQs because they 'change the game'.
This is why we can't have nice things. I just hope that Paizo doesn't eventually get fed up with our antics, lol.
This reminds me of when I spent an hour trying to kill Drizzt in Baldur's Gate so I could steal his weapons. Yes, I reloaded multiple times.
This was before I even knew who Drizzt was. :D
The crossbow can be made to be decent. It will just never match a bow. Manyshot and composite longbows are the reason for that. Speaking of the composite bow, it is a lot better than the regular bow also.
Yea, from a game design standpoint I just really don't like that some weapon styles simply can't become good. It should only take one extra feat to make a crossbow be at least close to being as good as a bow in my opinion.
The composite bow > regular bow isn't really an issue since they are basically the same thing and use the same proficiencies/feats.