|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
The Paizo shipping formula: no mortal mind can comprehend it. All who look upon it are soon driven mad.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Sorry to steal your thunder, but I was already kitsune obsessed before the first Dragon Empires player companion had come out ;)
Daniel Myhre wrote:
Where's anyone getting that kineticists are bringing anything in from the elemental planes? Haven't seen any reference to this in the book, just in this thread.
I'm just going to point out that if Kineticists needed nearby materials in order to attack with their elements, then Pyrokineticists would be worthless. Same with Hydrokineticists.
The other issue you have to deal with is that the mindblade has a +10 concentration penalty to deal with. You simply can't play this magus the same way as the other ones.
My suggestion for playing this type of magus is to focus on defensive buffs rather than offensive spells. If you start standing next to the enemy: full attack, five foot step away, and cast a buff. If you start 5 feet away from the enemy: cast a buff (or an offensive spell) 5 foot step in, and then full attack.
I have been bothered as well by just how meaningless non-human races seem to be in the setting. You would think that in a race filled with fantastical creatures that humans wouldn't eclipse everything else in the world.
It isn't even that humans have a higher population. I am fine with that. The issue is that the other races almost never do anything important.
Our current campaign is the first time in years that I am not playing as human. It's hard not to when humans have the best options.
This is why my campaigns have houserules to keep people from feeling forced to play a human. It just feels odd that in a world full of fantastical creatures humans are the best (or close to the best) at everything.
I know that Golarion is human centric, but as several other people have said: that doesn't mean I have to like it ;)
I didn't think of using that to get early Arcane Trickster.... that is amazing.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
I would ask... but I already have my pdf ;)
I have to say that I like the new traits and the oracle curse though!
Yep true. Devils I would at least be able to blind and dispel, though I certainly wouldn't bring a pyrokineticist into a campaign that is full of them.
Sure! I won't pretend that these options are ideal, but at the very least you won't have to sit out a combat whenever a Red Dragon or something comes along.
-Flash Infusion's blinding effect works, and since you can't do damage anyway you may as well use the "Cut your damage in half to increase the DC by 2" option.
I have to ask... why do you all care so much about the kineticists single target damage? Not all classes have to be good at that, and this is seriously the thing kineticists are worst at. In my opinion, if you are building your kineticist while only caring about single target damage then you are doing it wrong.
I'm building a pyrokineticist that will be able to do the following by level 11 *at will* without even having to take burn: throw a small fireball that causes all of its targets to save or be blinded, hit enemies with an infinite number of dispel magics (while burning them), create smokescreens, or simply throw 11d6+12 (or so) 10-ft radius blasts at-will. He will have a half-dozen ways to work around fire immunity and stay useful in combat. If this character ever throws a blast only to do damage to a single enemy then he is wasting his round, because there is so much more he could be doing. And this is the least versatile type of kineticist!
I'm building a Kitsune Pyrokineticist.... for a pirate campaign. Sounds like a terrible idea doesn't it? I'm going to just treat him like a power user from the manga One Piece because they are all pirates who lose their powers when they fall into the water.
Statting up the character has been kind of painful since he doesn't get a racial Con bonus, and I dislike the archetype that makes kineticists Charisma based.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Thanks for the answer! I'm running a pyrokineticst on a ship based game and I wanted to make sure that I could use sculpt flames to push any fires that I cause into the sea at least XD
Yea, admittedly I am lucky that the game that I am making a Pyrokineticist for is going to start at level 5... so I am skipping all the difficult levels and starting right with some anti-fire resistance abilities.
Yea, the lack of bardic song and other buffs on the AOEs is annoying. Luckily, I think the Pyrokineticist can keep up a bit by using Fires Fury to get a little extra damage. It does mean less utility though XD
Many throw only does basic blast damage, requires attack throws, and requires level 16(!).
Meanwhile, a pyrokineticist can do a Blue Flame Blast Eruption to do composite blast damage in a 10 ft radius, or Blue Flame Explosion for a 20 foot radius for still full composite blast damage. Both at earlier levels, and if the enemies make their save then oh well, the pyro still did almost as much damage as a many throw.
Edit: I know pyrokineticists have issues with fire immunity, but they sure do a lot more damage and get much better AOEs if they focus just on their element.
Just curious, why do people think that Fire is a bad element? It seems to have the highest damage potential (for touch attacks and AOE), the easiest AOE access, and the ability to blind even fire immune enemies on a hit at level 9 (or 8 if you retrain).
The only issue is that it has problems with fire immunity, but that is kind of a campaign specific thing. I have definately seen campaigns where fire immunity was not common.
What ability does that? From what I saw the resistance piercing is really slow (1d6/round and requires a failed save... and the enemy not putting the fire out), and I don't think there is anything for ignoring Immunity.
I've been building a pyrokineticist, and it seems like the character is going to really take off at around level 7. At that level he'll gain both Blue Flame and Eruption, meaning he'll be able to create a 4d6+7 10 ft radius AOE every round (no burn w/move action), or 6d6+7 if he takes 2 burn.
Things get much better at level 8 with Infusion Specialization 2 (1 burn for 8d6+7 AOE!), and he'll also gain Flash Infusion so he can blind people. The best part of Flash Infusion is that you don't have to do any damage for it to work, so it works on enemies that are immune to fire!
Luckily we aren't doing an AP, so I don't think fire resistance and immunity will be a huge issue anyway.
My quick thought on the vigilante is that I think you should focus on making each type of vigilante more based on some of the existing Prestige Classes in the game (such as arcane trickster, shadowdancer, and master spy) rather than basing them on the Base Classes. We already have 1-20 versions of the base classes, and they can just do a 1 level dip into Vigilante if they really want a secret identity.
Use the vigilante as a chance to give us something new and also continue your trend of giving us 20 level versions of the prestige classes. Heck, the vigilante is giving you a chance to make 20 level versions of THREE different prestige classes!
Just going to point out that if Kineticists could do archer level damage while also forcing the people they hit to save or be *blinded* (or some other exotic debuff) every single round, then they would be kind of overpowered.
Also, I don't think anyone is factoring favored class bonuses into their calculations. Several races can increase their blast damage by 1 every 3 or 4 levels. It adds up after a while.
Ahh, I missed that it lowers your kineticist level. Yea, the ability is kind of worthless then unless you are just spreading debuffs. It boardered on low damage even with a full kineticist level.
I guess the way to go for pyrokineticists at least is just to spam AOEs all day.
Edit: It seems like the go-to power for heavy damage from a kineticist is still kinetic blade and kinetic whip since they let you do a full-attack. Of course, that puts the kineticist pretty much in melee range.
Just going to point out this: people keep worrying about the kineticist's single target damage. Well, single target damage is what the kineticist is *worst* at.
The kineticist is really a specialist damaging several targets at the same time and doing an additional nasty effect to all of them. A level 10 kineticist could fire his blast at 3 people (4 with haste) and apply a rider effect (such as setting them on fire) at the cost of just a standard and move action. With no burn if my calculations are correct.
I do have to say that I am worried that when I am playing a kineticist, I'm going to keep wondering: "Why am I playing an archer who has to hurt himself to do less damage than a normal archer?".
Of course, the issue is that archers in pathfinder are overpowered, so I'm not sure that we actually want the kineticist to do that much damage. Hopefully all the utility abilities will help with that a bit. Unfortunately, I don't think they are even going to approach what a caster is capable of.
Pyrokinetecist question: is it possible to use 'sculpt flames' to put a fire out? I noticed that technically the ability doesn't require that the area you move a fire into have any flamable materials. If you move the fire into a non-flamable area, will it simply go out?
Building upon that: if you have a bonfire that takes up a 5-ft square, can you put it out just by using Sculpt Flames to lift the fire into the air above it?
The only thing holding me back is my addiction to the sweet sweet early access subscriber pdfs D:
Milo v3 wrote:
Is it at all possible to have a 20th level kineticist who only has a single element?
Yes it is. You get a small bonus (+1 attack/dam) for being totally focused on a single element, and you also get an extra talent every time you select the same element a second time.
I think the only element that is worth focusing on right now is fire, but I could be wrong.
Edit: though technically, the capstone does turn you into AVATAR, MASTER OF ALL FOUR ELEMENTS.
....well, sorta ;)
Mark Seifter wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply! Hmmm, it is apparent that I need to see more the of kineticist in action before I really understand how the class works out. Unfortunately, the Player that is currently running a playtest kineticist in my campaign is only using burn for Kinetic Healing XD
Hey Mark! Just curious, for the Overwhelming Soul archetype, do you think it would be unbalancing to increase the size of the 'internal buffer' that the Overwhelming Soul gets by the character's Charisma Modifier? I'm also thinking of making this ability available at level 1 instead of level 6 of course.
I feel like this would make the Overwhelming soul competitive with, but still weaker than, a standard Kineticist. He would be able to actually use some 'burn' abilities without having to stand still all the time, but still wouldn't be able to do it as many times per day as a standard Kineticist.
Of course, the issue is that a lot of this is still theory crafting and I am hesitant to make any big changes before seeing a bit more of the class in action XD
If you have an ability that enhances spells of a certain school does that apply to SLAs of that school too?
This book has reminded me of how glad I am that I houseruled that all races can use any core race's favored class bonus, and it is likely I would be able to convince the people who GM for me to do the same. Most of the races that I like playing will probably never get a kineticist FCB.
Half of the kineticist FCBs increase their damage, others increase their internal buffer or give an extra talent.
Mesmerist gets the Possession line, right?
He gets normal possession, but not greater possession. Greater possession makes your body disappear, while the normal one leaves it behind like magic jar.
The best thing about normal possession though is that there isn't a range limit (as long as you are on the same plane) for your soul to return to your body. It is *much* safter to use than magic jar and essentially replaces it as a spell.
Paizo basically decided that magic jar was annoyingly complex and unwieldy and killed it. There is an entire section in the psychic rules explaining this and how possession is different from mind control.
It is frightening that the normal protections against mind-affecting doesn't seem to help against the possession spell line. Well, Protection From Evil might stop it, but it is basically possible to cast Possession even on monsters that are traditionally immune to mind control.
I have to say though, the Greater Possession spell makes me super excited. I've been wanting to build a possession focused Kitsune character for ages.
This spell is also great for storylines. You could have a villian whose body died ages ago and he has been forced to cast possession on victims in succession to keep his spirit from passing on. The duration is in hours/level after all!
Edit: The additions to the enchantment and necromacy lines of spells are amazing.
Hey Mark, I have to ask you this because I feel like I must be missing something (and I'm not low on sleep this time!). Does the Overwhelming Soul kineticist archetype really not gain any charisma related ability to reduce burn? Because the archetype seems.... really gimped right now.
You get charisma as a primary stat, can't accept burn.... but then you don't seem to gain anything in return except for not having to burn yourself to fill your internal buffer and benefit from elemental overflow. How do you even use abilities that actually require you to accept burn to enhance them, like the various defensive powers?
It just seems like a normal kineticist could get the same effect (mostly not getting burnt), by not burning himself except for elemental overflow and filling internal buffer. Seriously, wouldn't the end result be basically the same? Overwhelming Soul seems to be less of an archetype that grants you abilities than one that just takes abilities away.
Hopefully there is something that I'm missing, because I *really* wanted to try out this archetype with a kitsune kineticist.
EDIT: Actually, this seems even worse than I thought. The Overwhelming Soul doesn't gain all the size bonuses from Elemental Overflow either. At high levels the character will be missing a +6, +4 and +2 to varous stats.