|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
Orfamay Quest wrote:
You could argue that it is a tax in this manner: Oh, you want your character to live past level 3? You'll need to max out your perception!
Yes, I am exaggerating a bit, but you get the idea. Perception can be considered a skill tax by some because they feel like it is a cost you have to pay in order for your character to live through a campaign.
Oh, I know that it is time based. It would be crazy if in a month a player's companion somehow beat the core line, lol
John Compton wrote:
Ahh, I stand corrected. I haven't played PFS in a few years so I haven't seen any of that XD
Edit: It *would* be nice to get some of this information outside of PFS though.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Here's hoping that this book is actually popular enough to lead to us getting a hardcover Campaign Setting book. That way we can get setting details AND additional character options at the same time ;)
Right now we still know next to nothing about these races in Golarion. Do we know of even a single leader level NPC of *any* of the "beast races"? Half of these races don't even have a single home town or organization to their names. We just kind of have a vague sense of what regions they live in and what their general tendencies and themes are.
Kitsune summoner with ancestor sorcerer eidolon and fox shape can have their eidolon turn into a human, allowing them to pretend to be their own class feature's familiar.
That is amazing. I'm imagining the looks of confusion when enemies 'kill' the eidolon and it *poofs* while the kitsune in fox form makes his escape. After all, almost no one bothers to kill the familiar.
GM Rednal wrote:
I'm not gonna lie, I might be fond of the 'get a summoned companion and have it learn all the healing powers for you' route. XD
... I never thought of that. Wow, so for two talents (extra companion and magical companion) you can have a healer that covers most status conditions.
So basically, when the Life Sphere book comes out it is going to need to have some sort of way to get multiple healing powers in a way that is just as efficient. Maybe something that gives the ability to remove multiple conditions, but doesn't boost your hit point healing ability?
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Also, racial paragon says you actually have to have be the race listed by the feat, if I recall correctly.
Hmmm. I've read it over again, and all it says is that he gains a feat with a racial prerequisite that he meets but doesn't have, and that he must meet all of the feat's prerequisites.
Talents can never be taken more than once unless they say so.
Yes, this one specifically says it can be taken more than once. It basically states that if you take it three times you can gain a single feat as an immediate action, or three feats as a standard action. 3+1/2 vigilante levels per day.
The one real limitation it has is that you can only gain feats from a single race at a time.
Edit: Also, many GMs would scoff at the idea of a Kitsune with Human Guise getting access to the Racial Heritage feat, lol XD
So, I am starting to realize how crazy the new "Racial Paragon" vigilante talent can be. It lets you temporarily get any racial feat that you meet the prereqs for. If you take this multiple times, you can either get the racial feat faster, or get *several at once*. A kitsune could use it to temporarily gain several tail feats at once.
This is very good for a lot of races, but it is especially crazy for the kitsune, humans, and any other race that can get access to the human Racial Heritage feat. That is because with Racial Heritage you can also access another humanoid race's feats with Racial Paragon. Kitsune can get access to their racial feats, human racial feats with Human Guise, and then a 3rd race's feats with Racial Heritage (which human guise lets them qualify for).
I like some of these things in the Catfolk section of the book. The Prowler at World's End is a pretty neat Bloodrager archetype, and I love the fact that the Wildsoul Vigilante Archetype was given a Feline option. That's a neat archetype, but I wasn't too interested the existing options.
Plus, neither of these require that the character be a catfolk ;)
Whether or not a supernatural ability detects as magical is a bit unknown in pathfinder because (unless I am mistaken) we no longer have 3.5's rule that states what a supernatural ability's caster level is. Also, neither 3.5 nor pathfinder says that supernatural abilities have spell levels. That makes detecting them with detect magic and a lot of other spells difficult, since they are based upon measuring spell level and/or caster level.
Of course, this might just be me reading the rules too literally... and also my wishful thinking that picking a kitsune out of a crowd shouldn't be trivial. I just figure that since supernatural abilities can't be dispelled (THAT is in the rules at least) that they shouldn't detect as magical either.
EDIT: Oh right, I just remembered the real reason why I believe supernatural abilities are missed by detect magic. The auras chart only lists spells and magical items as generating an aura. Supernatural abilities are neither of those.
So not really specifically interested in any of the races this book is focused on....how many of the mechanics options (Feats, spells, etc...) are actually usable by other races ???
From what I can tell, most of the options aside from racial traits and favored class bonuses are available to all races as long as they can meet the prereqs. For example, most kitsune vigilante abilities and feats are available to all (kitsune passed them on to others, or inspired them). However, the shapechanging feats and abilities require that the user either be a shapechanger or have wildshape.
Most of the abilities are most useful for most thematic for the race that they are grouped with however.
Amusing fact: the kitsune vigilante favored class bonus is +1/2 to the disguise bonus from seamless guise. A high level kitsune who combines that with Seamless Shapechanger so he adds gets to use his Seamless Disguise bonus while shape-changed can get truly absurd disguise skill checks.
Let's see, the theoretical total is...
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Annnd it turns out this doesn't work after all. Shapechanging Savage lets you make the feint as a swift action, but quick shapechange is also a swift action. That means you can't combine this with a full attack, since you would have to do the shapechange as a move or standard action. I guess I'm having trouble seeing the point in this feat now, since it doesn't really help with your action economy in any way?
Well, I guess it does let you feint against more creature types.
Those kitsune racial traits and favored class bonuses are REALLY good. They're not overpowered, but they add exactly the kinds of flavor that the race needed. They can get tails more easily, be skilled and intelligent tricksters, and have a starting fox form.
A little sad that none of the racial traits replace the bite attack, but I will admit that may have been a hard one to explain away.
You can tell that a lot of thought went into the kitsune section, as if they had a certain really kitsune obsessed person write a lot of it ;)
In theory, the Greater Feint Feat would make the opponent lose his dexterity bonus for an entire round.
The biggest drawback to this build is probably going to be the sheer number of feats involved. Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Greater Feint, Quick Kitsune Shapechanger, Vulpine Pounce, plus the new Transform+Feint feat. Plus the character would want the usual Weapon Finesse feats... ick.
Wow, after parsing the rules a bit, I think that a transformation focused kitsune with sneak attack is really good now. The build just takes a while to come together because of the BAB requirement on Vulpine Pounce.
Technically, you can feint an opponent at long range, it usually just doesn't accomplish anything since feint only works for melee attacks. However, a kitsune with the transformation feats can shapeshift as a swift action, get a free feint, and then pounce the opponent for a full round attack of sneak attacks. Unless I am mistaken, you can get both the feint *and* the pounce off of a single swift action shapeshift. That's... really deadly.
Too bad only a slayer can meet the BAB requirements at a reasonable level though, and they don't have high sneak attack. Also, there is always a chance that there is something that keeps this from working that I haven't seen in the actual book yet.
Hmmm, it is cool that these new kitsune feats and abilities can basically give them a unique playstyle when used for sneak attack feint builds. A kitsune slayer with just a few of the transformation feats will have swift action feints, pounce, and a fox form for scouting. I'm sure that some interesting builds for dazzling display might be possible as well.
Kind of saddened that we don't have a full 'kitsune bloodline', but I guess this sorcerer archetype can kind of make any bloodline into a kitsune bloodline, lol. I've just never felt like the tailed feats were worth it for kitsune sorcerers since they don't benefit from the race's enchantment bonuses.
The best place to get kitsune miniatures at the moment is via HeroForge.com, since they added fox tails and canine heads as options for their custom miniatures. I was able to make a really cool kitsune pyrokineticist miniature using that site.
Here's a link to the model that I created: Hero Forge Kitsune Pyrokineticist
For other options, Stonehaven Miniatures has a pretty good kitsune swordsman, and Reaper is going to be releasing some kitsunes soon.
The problem with all of these is that they have only one tail though. >_<
I'm usually not a fan of wild magic, but after reading over the handbook I find this pretty interesting. I really like your idea of having feats where you can choose to increase your wild magic chance in exchange for some benefit.
I am also in favor of anything that will get rid of the silly 1 in 100 chance of casting a fireball that comes with the current wild magic drawback, lol.
The one thing in the book that I have to complain about is the "Unnatural Transformation" drawback. This could have been a very flavorful drawback option with the way it leaves signs of your true identity and makes you weak to silver weapons while shapeshifted. However, the silver weapons weakness is too extreme.
Make a will save with a DC equal to the damage dealt to you with a silver weapon or lose the transformation? You know that damage based DCs are nearly impossible to make at mid to high levels and especially when you might have to make several saves during a full attack, right?
GM Rednal wrote:
I was thinking of leaving one, though I'd have to put it on drivethrurpg.com since I bought it there ;)
This is a *very* good book for creating shapeshifting themed characters. Not only does it give additional options for Spheres Alteration users, it gives players the option of taking the Transformation feat to make their character into a supernatural shapeshifter with a single alternate form just like a Kitsune.... without even being a spellcaster.
That transformation feat is super useful and flavorful. You could take it (with improved transformation for size change) in order to give any monster a human form that doesn't detect as magical. Or you could create a level 1 human fighter who can turn into a medium dragon. Or you could create a character with a Wolf form, and take Hybrid Transformation for a hybrid form for a werewolf themed character. The options are endless and I love it :D
My favorite multiclass character is: Draconic Sorcerer 13/Paladin 2/Dragon Disciple 6/Lunar Oracle 1. Works best with the mythic power that lets you use your caster level as your BAB, otherwise you might need more Dragon Disciple levels for accuracy. I think I used the archer paladin archetype to gain free precise shot since I didn't need the heavy armor proficiency.
I went with the theme of a silver dragon blooded follower of Apsu. Very fun character. He also adds his charisma to everything.
Kitsune, Wyvaran, and Skinwalkers are my favorites. Honorable mentions go to half-elfs, tengu, and undine.
Kitsune are my favorite simply because of the real-life lore behind them, and their shapeshifting means they can blend in when they need to. They open up a lot of roleplaying opportunities for me.
Wyvaran have become interesting to me lately after legacy of dragons and I really needed a dragon race to play. The lack of a real dragon themed race in pathfinder has always bothered me, and I am glad to finally have one available.
I'm a fan of Skinwalkers simply because I like Lycanthropes. The execution of the races abilities leave much to be desired, but they have a lot of thematic powers that are fun to build a character around. I am always looking for a way to play one of these because I like the idea of Lycanthropes that aren't a danger to society.
The chances of me playing starfinder will go up significantly of one of these races gets included somehow.
Life Oracles are amazing simply because they are greater than the sum of their parts.
1. Fey Founding - heal the damage that you absorb from others more efficiently
The end result is the most efficient healer in the game.
I have been in parties with an optimized Life Oracle. In PFS games you basically stop worrying about dying from simple damage, because it would take something completely absurd to actually kill anyone in a party with a Life Oracle. This means that combats end very quickly because the rest of the party kills things without worrying about self preservation.
1) I said "feat-like", not "feats". Each character gets one for free at every level, in addition to everything their characters normally get. Except for their missing big-six items of course. ;)
3) Yea, but so can many other weapons in the right circumstances. I see no reason why guns should operate by a completely different system than everything else simply because they are guns. It really destroys my suspension of disbelief.
Let's see, things that I would remove...
1. The Big Six magical items (replaced with a feat-like system that imitates item bonuses)
Luckily for me, my houserules already do all of these things! I complete the work in record time and get a bonus!
Ser Humpty Dumpty, Paladin wrote:
Oh, the goal wouldn't be to get him to break his NDA. It would be just to drive him crazy ;)
I'm really looking forward to the favored class bonuses. One of the major issues with the uncommon races is that they barely have any favored class bonuses to choose from, while the core races basically have favored class bonuses for *everything*.
Here's hoping that there is something for Kitsune Mesmerists! ;)
*SIGH* I really don't want to get into this discussion, but I'm going to point out that Kitsune have some very specific Japanese/Asian legends that they are based on. They are not simply anthropomorphic foxes. Japanese kitsune were spirits and shapechangers, and some of them took the form of women specifically to manipulate human men.
Yes, Pathfinder kitsune are different from "Earth" kitsune. However, it would still be very odd if female kitsune didn't look extremely "feminine" in their humanoid forms.
Soooo, can we go back to discussing the content of the book rather than the art and other weirdness? Lol XD