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Red Dragon

Matrix Dragon's page

1,271 posts. Alias of Matrixryu.


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I love charisma based classes and I should have been one the the Overwhelming Soul's biggest fans. However... the changes to the class are so mathematically painful that I can't bring myself to build one.

Let me put it this way: a standard kineticist who simply gives himself enough burn at the start of each day to have hit points equivalent to that of an Overwhelming Soul will be both more accurate and deal more damage per hit than the Overwhelming Soul. This is because the static bonuses that the Overwhelming Soul gets are significantly weaker than what the standard kineticist gets with just a few points of burn, not to mention that it is more MAD.

Being good with diplomacy and such is nice, but I don't think it should cost such a big chunk of your combat and utility abilities.


The one thing that was annoying about 3.5 prestige classes was that they made you have to plan out your entire character, from level 1 to level 20, if you wanted to qualify for more than just one of them.


I'm just going to repost this here since it was in an inappropriate thread before:

Personally, I feel like it is very likely that Mengkare could be being influenced or controlled by the Aboleth. Some of the stuff he's doing is *very* similar to the Aboleth's influence upon the Azlanti. Plus, his dislike of the gods Aboleth-like as well.

The plus side of him being Aboleth controlled is that it sidesteps most of the alignment drama ;)


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I really hope that this book has some sort of options for characters who get infected with lycanthropy and try to suppress and control it to use it as a weapon. Something that also keeps the character's power level in line with the other players, like a prestige class.

It is kind of annoying that currently the only real options with lycanthropy are to either cure the character or create a new character. Anything else often leads to alignment drama or party imbalance.


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Dragon78 wrote:
I new it, Mengkare is a Veiled Master;)

I've been kind of suspecting either this or that he's being controlled by a Veiled Master since his experiments seem a little too similar to what the Abolith did with the Azlanti. Having that odd dislike of the gods seems very Abolith-like as well.

Having the Abolith involved also nicely sidesteps some of the alignment drama, lol.


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Oh please let there be a dragon type eidolon for the unchained summoner... :D


Those of you who are writing this player's companion sure have your work cut out for you, because it is going to be hard to meet all these expectations with a mere 32 pages, lol. Considering how good the last few player's companions have been though, I am looking forward to this one :)


Shisumo wrote:
Child of AnA is the "arcane paladin" people have asked for off and on since before Pathfinder even came out.

Right, the thing that bothers me is how weak it is compared to any other full bab caster. If you took away a paladin's ability to smite evil it *might* still be better than the Child of AnA.


QuidEst wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Soo, I love this book, but I have to ask this: Is there any real point to running a fighter with the "Child of Acavna and Amazen" archetype? At first I was excited because it gives the fighter some bloodrager-like spellcasting ability. However, he gives up *all weapon training* and five feats for it! Six feats if you count the one lost for extra skills at level 1. WHAT?

I can see losing some feats to gain minor spellcasting, but losing weapon training as well is just silly. Why would you ever run this over a ranger, bloodrager, or paladin if you want a full BAB character with a little spellcasting?

Prepared arcane 4/9 casting. That's the main draw, I think.

True, I guess this is pretty much the only single classed full bab prepared caster. Well, that is arcane at least.


Soo, I love this book, but I have to ask this: Is there any real point to running a fighter with the "Child of Acavna and Amazen" archetype? At first I was excited because it gives the fighter some bloodrager-like spellcasting ability. However, he gives up *all weapon training* and five feats for it! Six feats if you count the one lost for extra skills at level 1. What the?

I can see losing some feats to gain minor spellcasting, but losing weapon training as well is just silly. Why would you run this over a ranger, bloodrager, or paladin if you want a full BAB character with a little spellcasting?


I was looking over the Eldritch Scoundrel and thinking it was a little weak. That was until I found that it could use spell levels as ki points to power ninja tricks. Thats... amazing.

I think this is the way the ninja class should have been done in the first place. It might actually be possible to build a really good Forgotten Trick user with this archetype.


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The Wyrmwraith is high on my list of terrifying monsters. A single one of those things should be able to wipe out all life on a planet. All it needs to do is pop up unannounced in a heavily populated city, turn everyone into dread wraiths under its control, and then send them out to all the surrounding towns. Then those send the Dread Wraiths they created to the next towns. Repeat as necessary.

Seriously. How do you stop something that simply has to use its breath weapon to turn a dozen commoners into CR 13 Dreadwraiths. If a Wyrmwraith attacked a city there would be dozens if not hundreds of Dreadwraiths in *minutes*. Plus, even if you kill the Wyrmwraith, that just frees the Dreadwraiths. It would take a well prepared and organized freakishly high level party to deal with that.


I'm a software engineer.... so I guess I would be one of those wizards who sits in a tower all day creating custom spells for clients. With a golem making hobby, since I like painting/crafting miniatures ;)


Amanda Hamon Kunz wrote:
Redelia wrote:
Will this include Paladin codes as appropriate?
It sure will.

Oooo! Paladin of Apsu code? Pleeese? :D

Well, it will be a campaign or two late for my paladin of apsu, but it would be cool to read and see how close I was.


Nathanael Love wrote:
There are obviously plenty of people who either aren't bothered by the bloat, or actively want the additional options.

For me there won't be enough options until it is possible to build every single character imaginable.... and for each of those builds to be equally combat effective. So yes, I actively want more options :)


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I'd love some archetypes which change the flavor of the kineticist's power source. For example: What about a kineticist who draws his power from the spirit(s) of dragons instead of getting it from an elemental plane?


It makes sense to me. If you go unconscious or get dazed while flying you are technically still in control of the spell, you just aren't telling to to keep you in the air. It says that it takes concentration to fly after all. Seriously, do you expect a 3rd level spell to have a protective safety cushion against every possible downside or counter?


I would suggest taking a look at Hero Lab if you want an easy way to quickly level up characters. It is a little expensive, but it will give you a list of all available feats that your character qualifies for (for the books that you have purchased in hero lab).

Alternatively, I would suggest having all your players sit down and plan out your feat selections for your character's entire lifetime in a single sitting. For every level. That way you will already know what you're getting when you level up.


I'm pretty sure my dump stat is CON. I've been dealing with chronic pain problems for years and have asthma. That situation hasn't done good things for my STR either.

Since I'm a programmer and a video gamer, I'm going to guess that INT and DEX are my two main stats.

Sooo.... Alchemist or Wizard?


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The reason why the "There is too much bloat" argument baffles me is because it assumes that you have to know how everything works to GM the game. Unless you are running PFS, you don't. You only need to know how the specific classes your players are running work. Who cares if they have a billion options if they are coming to your game with only a few of them?

I will admit that this doesn't help PFS GMs, but that's just a corner case compared to how most groups experience their roleplaying games.


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Avatar The Last Airbender had the weirdest party. Almost all kineticists and some sort of fighter/ranger? Since they all had different elements and the hydrokineticist picked up kinetic healing early on they actually had a well balanced party. Well, except for some reason the GM let the Aerokineticist use his 20th level capstone super early in the campaign. That turned out to be overpowered, so he took the ability away half way through the campaign and gave it back when the final boss fight started going bad.


I do have to say that the lack of dragon themed campaigns (except for Dragon's Demand, which was great) in Pathfinder has almost saddened me enough to get me to look into D&D 5e. I'll never have to worry about there being too few dragons over there.

I never really got to play the older editions of D&D as much as I would have liked so I never got to experience the 'draconic overload' in D&D that apparently got everyone at Paizo so sick of dragons in their rpgs, lol.


Luckily, it isn't too hard to make anime inspired characters in pathfinder, though you generally have to pick from the more magically attuned martial classes to do it well.

My favorate anime creation: a Naruto inspired synthesist summoner. His eidolon was a nine-tailed (shadow) fox, and he used the full dimensional dervish chain. Being able to teleport step in between every attack and flank with yourself while being in eidolon form was awesome and thematic.

The funny thing though, I guess while it is possible to mimic anime inspired abilities the "power" attacks are thing thing that's missing. It is hard to mimic the explosive power that is found in a lot of animes without actually casting a fireball.


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Now, this is a good argument for homeschooling in Cheliax. ;)


thejeff wrote:
RainyDayNinja wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
I don't see how looking at what the setting treats as magical is somehow more arbitrary than just saying "anything unrealistic is automatically magical no matter what setting we're looking at".
You think a dividing line between "violates the laws of physics" and "doesn't violate the laws of physics" is arbitrary?

Except that if the setting itself isn't running by our laws of physics, that's not a really useful distinction.

It doesn't really matter anyway. You have to accept that most of the PF setting runs on magic or on different laws of physics already (humanoid giants, giant bugs, huge flying creatures, not to mention high-level martials all break out of realism already.) Once you've done so, holding martials to realism because they don't have magic is silly. They're already unrealistic.

Holding martials within certain limits because that matches the aesthetic you're aiming for does make sense. But it needs to acknowledged that way.

This is a good point, but I see two issues with this.

First, if the laws of physics are different you still run into the issue of "Why is the non-magical class on par with the magical class." The magically empowered one should still leave the physics bound fighter in the dust because the magically empowered class should be able to push limits in the same way as the fighter while *also* benefiting from magic.

The other issue is that if the laws of physics are set in the Pathfinder world in such a way to explain why they can do a few normally "impossible" things, why can't the fighter smash down buildings and move super fast to match the insane speed and strength he uses to tear down a dragon in seconds? The rules are letting him hit things faster and harder than should be possible, but he doesn't seem to benefit from these 'loose' physics in any other way.

Edit: To me, it all ends up feeling a bit arbitrary and inconsistant. Like the Pathfinder world can't decide if it wants to be realistic or not realistic.


thejeff wrote:

Just to point out something often overlooked - It depends on the magic. Pathfinder style high fantasy level magic, sure it gets practically impossible for martials to compete.

But not all fantasy magic allows for invisible flying projected images dropping meteor swarms.

I agree with you. In a game where magic is much more toned down than pathfinder there is no reason to give the martials 'anime' powers. I think the reason people keep asking for 'anime' powers in Pathfinder though is specifically because it has that level of rediculous magical power where you have to wonder why it even has a "non-magical Fighter" class.

In a way though, Pathfinder Fighters are already Anime characters. Though shear training and force of will, they can gain enough hit points to survive lava and meteor swarms. Fighters can kill a Great Wyrm Dragon in seconds if they get close enough. The fact that the game acts like that sort of thing *isn't* magical really bothers me. It also makes me wonder why people don't want to give fighters ablities like "split a building with a single sword swing" while they're at it.


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Greylurker wrote:
Which is essentially the same description you could apply to Chi. The simple truth is that High Fantasy Martial combat isn't martial. It's always paired with something else. The best Pure Martial stuff are things like Samurai Champeloo where melee combat is combined with skill use to perform stunts.

The problem is that in a world with supernatural powers the only way a martial character should be able contribue meaningfully is by becoming supernatural in his own right. It doesn't matter how he does this, he could gain Chi, martial magic or anything else. However, a purely reality bound martial character being able to keep up with a supernatural martial character is very.... unrealistic. ;)

I've always found it silly that pathfinder tries to put realistic and magical characters on the same level. To me, this is kind of like saying that if Han Solo had a few more levels in Star Wars Episode 5 he would have been able to actually harm Darth Vader. The fact that pathfinder acts like such a thing is possible by trying to put the non-magical on par with the supernatural actually breaks my suspension of disbelief.

Heck, in a fantasy rpg where you are allowed to play as a wizard, all non-supernatural classes should be npc classes. Expecting balance in a party with a non-magical ranger and Gandolf the Grey is just silly. Soo.... yes, bring on the 'anime' powers! Give fighters the same level to break the laws of phyisics that wizards have. Or at least explain that +15-20 bab at high levels as something magical. To me, it will only make Pathfinder more believable!

Edit-TLDR: So, I guess I do agree with your point. High Fantasy Martial combat isn't martial. The problem is that Pathfinder is kind of high fantasy. So, what are these non-magical fighters doing here in this high fantasy game?


Another option is to require the summoner to use one of the summoner archetypes that replaces Summon Monster. There are a few of them and then that would reduce him down to just using the eidolon.


Honestly, the encounters in serpent's skull are so weak that I can see many different types of characters soloing the thing. This isn't just about the summoner being powerful. When I GMed this campaign often I ended up having my party fight three *buffed* encounters at a time to keep things interesting.

Basically, Paizo always makes their encounters too weak. I suggest always doing at least two of the following: advanced templates for all monsters, maxed hit points for all monsters, add 2 or 3 levels to boss mosnters, and/or simply having the party fight three of the book's encounters at a time.

If you increase the number of monsters and their power to the point that the summoner *needs* help and can't solo things, then you're good.


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Heh, I actually enjoyed watching Avatar in 3D. I think it added a lot to the movie.

Then again, I was the only one among my group of friends who didn't come out of that movie theater stumbling like a drunk. It takes *a lot* to make me motion sick.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Zerri wrote:
Of course, for any of these books to happen, we need to blow out Paizo's stock on Blood of Shadows first.
I don't know if we need to blow out stock, but I think its worth remembering that we went over a year between Blood of the Elements and Blood of Shadow, and I'm willing to bet that the lukewarm (if not downright hostile) reaction to Blood of the Elements had something to do with that.

Yea, Paizo seems to have a bad habit of focusing on the wrong things when they write the 'blood of' books and I bet it is hurting their sales. The vampire one focused too much on an unplayable monster rather than giving us more info on dampires. Blood of Elements only gave 2 pages to each subrace. Blood of the Moon was closer to the right monster/player race mix but had a lot of errors.

We'll have to see how Blood of Shadows comes out, but hopefully it is more focused and better edited than the other ones.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Lukas Stariha wrote:

Upon looking at the Kineticist elements, there is a serious problem with every non-universal infusion for Wood and Void from Occult Adventures: They don't have listed associated blasts.

It is unclear if Pushing is available for both Gravity and Negative Blast or if any Wood Composite Blast can use Deadly Earth, Entangling, Impale or Pushing.
EDIT: I just checked, and indeed the intros (in the simple blast text) tell you the associated blasts.

I think this is true for all blasts except for Negative Admixture. Currently, I don't think Negative Admixture can be combined with anything. Is it supposed to be usable with all infusions that can be used with Negative Blast?


The information out there for kitsune is extremely limited simply because they come from the Tian Xia region. The only place that they are really mentioned to gather in specifically is the Forest of the Spirits near Minkai. Aside from that, they are basically spread out and often hide among humans. Their population in Tian Xia is said to be simmilar to the number of Elves in the Inner Sea.


Question about the void kineticist. What Infusions can Negative Admixture be used with? Technically, this composite blast is not listed as a compatable option for any infusion and I don't think it says it counts as another type for prerequisites. Is Negative Admixture supposed to work with anything that works with a 'negative' blast?


I wonder how useful the wood element would be for a ship based campaign? Not much foresty nature, but I guess the kineticst could repair the ship pretty easily.


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Kvantum wrote:
Fourshadow wrote:
Perhaps I am thick, but what damage type does a Phytokineticist do? I have read the info 3 times and am still in the dark.
Physical, in either piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning. Autumn is a composite of earth and wood, spring air and wood, summer fire and wood, and winter is a cold and wood composite

I really like the flavor of those composite blasts. I was worried that a fire/wood kineticist would just be like... "I throw burning trees at you for 6d6+20 damage!"


Huh, both of those elements sound very interesting. So, it sounds like Wood has composite blasts with other elements and void does not?


Yay! Shipping!

Just curious, what are the wood and void kineticist elements like?


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graywulfe wrote:
Justin Franklin wrote:
It has been joked that the warehouse staff has a nigh-incomprehensible formula for what gets shipped when. :)
I heard PMG designed it and Cosmo touched it....

The Paizo shipping formula: no mortal mind can comprehend it. All who look upon it are soon driven mad.


Considering the description that the kitsune got in Inner Sea Races I think the correct player companion name for them would be "Blood of Spirits". Kitsune are described as having "one foot in the physical world, and other in the world of the spirits".


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Alexander Augunas wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
I may be tempted to make my Kitsune Pyrokineticist into a fire/void type, depending on how well that combination works.
WATCH HELPLESSLY, OWEN, AS MY CORRUPTION SPREADS!

Sorry to steal your thunder, but I was already kitsune obsessed before the first Dragon Empires player companion had come out ;)


Daniel Myhre wrote:
Where's anyone getting that kineticists are bringing anything in from the elemental planes? Haven't seen any reference to this in the book, just in this thread.

I'm just going to point out that if Kineticists needed nearby materials in order to attack with their elements, then Pyrokineticists would be worthless. Same with Hydrokineticists.


I may be tempted to make my Kitsune Pyrokineticist into a fire/void type, depending on how well that combination works.


Let's see... Besmara, Achaekek, Apsu, Dahak. Definately looking forward to this book.

Hopefully this will sell well enough that Paizo will decide to make a "Dragon Empires Faiths" book as well :D


You had me sold at "Apsu". :D


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Lol, when I saw this archetype the whole "magical girl" thing never even crossed my mind. I just thought it was a very cool and thematic archetype for someone who wanted to run a paladin that didn't receive training.


The other issue you have to deal with is that the mindblade has a +10 concentration penalty to deal with. You simply can't play this magus the same way as the other ones.

My suggestion for playing this type of magus is to focus on defensive buffs rather than offensive spells. If you start standing next to the enemy: full attack, five foot step away, and cast a buff. If you start 5 feet away from the enemy: cast a buff (or an offensive spell) 5 foot step in, and then full attack.


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I find it funny that NONE of the questions that are being asked are about humans or any of the core races. Especially when this book is mostly about the core races.

Paizo! This is your sign that you are missing out on a big money making opportunity by not giving us a non-core races hardcover! ;)


I have been bothered as well by just how meaningless non-human races seem to be in the setting. You would think that in a race filled with fantastical creatures that humans wouldn't eclipse everything else in the world.

It isn't even that humans have a higher population. I am fine with that. The issue is that the other races almost never do anything important.


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I would love it if kineticists could get a power that lets them attempt to banish an outsider regardless of its type. This would greatly help pyrokineticists against devils and many other non-fire typed fire immune enemies.

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