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Red Dragon

Matrix Dragon's page

1,462 posts. Alias of Matrixryu.


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4 people marked this as a favorite.

One suggestion I want to throw out there for the shifter: make it so that a natural shapeshifter (such as a kitsune or werewolf) can mix his natural polymorph effects with his shifter class abilities. As the polymorph rules are currently written shapeshifting races are actually bad choices for shapeshifting classes.... and this makes no sense.

Skinwalkers are actually the worst off, because they lose half of their racial stat bonuses when they use other polymorph effects.


The shifter sounds interesting! I just hope that the shifter can choose specialties like a kineticist instead of being a jack of all trades shapeshifter. I've been wanting to run specialist shapeshifters with dragon or werewolf themes for a long time.


The rougarou seem like a pretty nice addition to the game, though I wish that they either had a human form or a infinite use wolf form. Right now, when we're talking about their shapeshifting, they are quite inferior to the kitsune.

Well, the kitsune have had several years to pick up additional abilities. Maybe the rougarou will gain some stuff over time as well. :)


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I used a really expensive scroll of Time Stop so that I could buff myself and assume my huge dragon form as quickly as possible for the final battle, but the rest of the party still killed the demon lord before I could attack it. #level20Mythic10Problems #thisActuallyHappened


drumlord wrote:
Ventnor wrote:

So, weird idea for a setting:

What if all of the Major Gods were dead? The only beings who could grant divine characters power would have been called Demigods, at best. What would that setting be like?

Reminds of Dark Souls. Obviously the setting wouldn't have to be that dark. But the gods of Dark Souls either may not exist or can be fought and defeated.

It may end up more like Dark Souls than you think. Without Pharasma, it might not be possible for anyone to be born, or for anyone to die for that matter. Undead everywhere, lol.


There are a large number of character concepts that pathfinder doesn't support well that I have had to add to my games via houserules and 3rd party supplements


  • Casters who have strong themes and don't want to cast spells which are not related to their theme. Good luck making a "light" or "ice" themed caster without heavily limiting your character.
  • Martial characters who are skilled with a wide variety of weapons, who are not locked into using a single magical weapon for most of a campaign.
  • Shapeshifting themed characters
  • Dragon themed characters. We have some now, but only a few are viable and none of them can even turn into a dragon until the campaign is basically over.


If you want to 'limit' magic without making players feel like they are being punished, I would suggest using the Spheres of Power 3rd party magics ruleset. It keeps the power of magic from getting out of hand, but makes using it so much more intuitive and customizable that most players won't care.


I'm planning to get one. I was iffy on the system at first, but I have been impressed by what I have been hearing about how the controllers work. This sort of "play the game how you want" thing could work out pretty well.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Personally, I don't like "Spheres of Might" because it sounds a bit too focused on Strength focused characters. This is supposed to have support for characters like rogues and archers as well, right? I like the Spheres of Prowess idea.


My solution to this is to give my 'bosses' hero points with some custom rules. They can use these hero points to reroll failed saves and get extra actions.

My players already have hero points of their own so it isn't like I'm letting the bosses cheat.


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Orfamay Quest wrote:
Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
When something eats up a characters skill ranks 100% of the time, with an immense statistical disadvantage for not taking it, you might as well call it what it is. A tax.

That's not a tax.

That's not what a tax is.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it does."

Quote:
Same with Power Attack, same with most prerequisite feats for any given feat tree,

Yeah, entirely the same except for, you know, being completely different.

A tax is something you have to pay for independently of what you are paying to get what you want -- it's an arbitrary increase in the cost of some capacity, usually by paying for something else that I neither need nor want.

Oh, you want this $200 tortellini polisher? Well, that will cost you the $200 price, plus $50 VAT. Oh, you want the Augment Summoning feat? Well, that will cost you a feat, plus another feat for Spell Focus. Oh, you want to be a Master Spy? Well, you will need to choose that as your next level class,.... plus you will need to take the Iron Will feat, despite the fact that you already have a +36 Will save, and so you neither need nor want it.

D&D 5e is fairly explicit about that in their multiclassing rules. "Without the full training that a beginning character receives, you must be a quick study in your new class, having a natural aptitude that is reflected by higher-than-average ability scores. [...]For example, a barbarian who decides to multiclass into the druid class must have both Strength and Wisdom scores of 13 or higher. " [In other words, you need to pay a tax of being a better druid than a professional druid in order to dabble in first level druid spells.]

Perception is nothing like that. There's no tax involved. There's a capacity that you either want or you don't want, and you can pay the price or not, as you see fit. Furthermore, your complaint isn't that it's overpriced (as it would be if, for example, I charged a huge VAT on...

You could argue that it is a tax in this manner: Oh, you want your character to live past level 3? You'll need to max out your perception!

Yes, I am exaggerating a bit, but you get the idea. Perception can be considered a skill tax by some because they feel like it is a cost you have to pay in order for your character to live through a campaign.


Mark Seifter wrote:
In fox form, she can't make kinetic blasts because she doesn't have a prehensile appendage (like a hand or tentacle).

There totally should be a way for kitsune to use their tails for making kinetic blasts. It fits with the Japanese legends they are drawn from :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
ASharkInAPanzerNamedShark wrote:
A kitsune space fighter pilot.

I desperately want kitsune in Starfinder, but I am worried that this idea will never happen because everyone will think of Starfox, lol.


CBDunkerson wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
So, the Blood of the Beast player's companion is now in 2nd place on the site's overall best seller's list. That's a pretty good sign :)
I think that list is for some limited period of time (two months maybe?)... not over the entire history of the site.

Oh, I know that it is time based. It would be crazy if in a month a player's companion somehow beat the core line, lol


So, the Blood of the Beast player's companion is now in 2nd place on the site's overall best seller's list. That's a pretty good sign :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

It is cool that it is official that Kitsune are digitigrade now. I've always felt that is the way they should be.

However, now *all* of my kitsune miniatures are officially incorrect, nuuuuu!


John Compton wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Here's hoping that this book is actually popular enough to lead to us getting a hardcover Campaign Setting book. That way we can get setting details AND additional character options at the same time ;)

Right now we still know next to nothing about these races in Golarion. Do we know of even a single leader level NPC of *any* of the "beast races"? Half of these races don't even have a single home town or organization to their names. We just kind of have a vague sense of what regions they live in and what their general tendencies and themes are.

** spoiler omitted **

Ahh, I stand corrected. I haven't played PFS in a few years so I haven't seen any of that XD

Edit: It *would* be nice to get some of this information outside of PFS though.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
You know, I'm surprised that kitsune didn't get a kineticist favored class bonus. I guess Pathfinder kitsune really aren't going to get any of the old 'fox fire' themes aside from Dancing Lights.

Space was tight. Kineticist was on my list, but I scrapped it for the "all classes" FCB option because I felt it was more important to the race's fantasy.

But hey, all of you consumers at home have a pretty big impact on what gets published. Prove that the thing you love is economically viable for sequels and it'll happen.

He says on the day that the first ever non-Bestiary direct sequel product is announced, which is the sequel to one of the best-selling Paizo products of all time.

Here's hoping that this book is actually popular enough to lead to us getting a hardcover Campaign Setting book. That way we can get setting details AND additional character options at the same time ;)

Right now we still know next to nothing about these races in Golarion. Do we know of even a single leader level NPC of *any* of the "beast races"? Half of these races don't even have a single home town or organization to their names. We just kind of have a vague sense of what regions they live in and what their general tendencies and themes are.


You know, I'm surprised that kitsune didn't get a kineticist favored class bonus. I guess Pathfinder kitsune really aren't going to get any of the old 'fox fire' themes aside from Dancing Lights.


QuidEst wrote:
Kitsune summoner with ancestor sorcerer eidolon and fox shape can have their eidolon turn into a human, allowing them to pretend to be their own class feature's familiar.

That is amazing. I'm imagining the looks of confusion when enemies 'kill' the eidolon and it *poofs* while the kitsune in fox form makes his escape. After all, almost no one bothers to kill the familiar.


GM Rednal wrote:
I'm not gonna lie, I might be fond of the 'get a summoned companion and have it learn all the healing powers for you' route. XD

... I never thought of that. Wow, so for two talents (extra companion and magical companion) you can have a healer that covers most status conditions.

So basically, when the Life Sphere book comes out it is going to need to have some sort of way to get multiple healing powers in a way that is just as efficient. Maybe something that gives the ability to remove multiple conditions, but doesn't boost your hit point healing ability?


I highly recommend this book as well! The character options within it are all extremely useful and flavorful. Plus, around half of the stuff within the book can be used by other races if they meet the prerequisites.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Also, racial paragon says you actually have to have be the race listed by the feat, if I recall correctly.

Hmmm. I've read it over again, and all it says is that he gains a feat with a racial prerequisite that he meets but doesn't have, and that he must meet all of the feat's prerequisites.


QuidEst wrote:
Talents can never be taken more than once unless they say so.

Yes, this one specifically says it can be taken more than once. It basically states that if you take it three times you can gain a single feat as an immediate action, or three feats as a standard action. 3+1/2 vigilante levels per day.

The one real limitation it has is that you can only gain feats from a single race at a time.

Edit: Also, many GMs would scoff at the idea of a Kitsune with Human Guise getting access to the Racial Heritage feat, lol XD


So, I am starting to realize how crazy the new "Racial Paragon" vigilante talent can be. It lets you temporarily get any racial feat that you meet the prereqs for. If you take this multiple times, you can either get the racial feat faster, or get *several at once*. A kitsune could use it to temporarily gain several tail feats at once.

This is very good for a lot of races, but it is especially crazy for the kitsune, humans, and any other race that can get access to the human Racial Heritage feat. That is because with Racial Heritage you can also access another humanoid race's feats with Racial Paragon. Kitsune can get access to their racial feats, human racial feats with Human Guise, and then a 3rd race's feats with Racial Heritage (which human guise lets them qualify for).


I like some of these things in the Catfolk section of the book. The Prowler at World's End is a pretty neat Bloodrager archetype, and I love the fact that the Wildsoul Vigilante Archetype was given a Feline option. That's a neat archetype, but I wasn't too interested the existing options.

Plus, neither of these require that the character be a catfolk ;)


QuidEst wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Amusing fact: the kitsune vigilante favored class bonus is +1/2 to the disguise bonus from seamless guise. A high level kitsune who combines that with Seamless Shapechanger so he adds gets to use his Seamless Disguise bonus while shape-changed can get truly absurd disguise skill checks.

Let's see, the theoretical total is...
+10 racial
+10 polymorph
+20 seamless disguise
+10 favored class bonus
+20 skill points
+3 class skill
+6 skill focus (for absurdity)
+1 for average kitsune charisma mod
For a total of a +80 bonus to disguise. If he rolls a 20, he gets a disguise skill check of 100. He won't detect as magical by the way, you need true seeing to see past the disguise. A level 20 kitsune vigilante with the realistic likeness feat could pretend to be your best friend, one of your parents, and your spouse all in the same day and you'd never suspect a thing.

Not sure where you're getting the ability to not ping as magical from, but True Seeing isn't the only spell you have to worry about, since Change Shape functions like Alter Self, although True Seeing will be the most common thing to encounter.

Whether or not a supernatural ability detects as magical is a bit unknown in pathfinder because (unless I am mistaken) we no longer have 3.5's rule that states what a supernatural ability's caster level is. Also, neither 3.5 nor pathfinder says that supernatural abilities have spell levels. That makes detecting them with detect magic and a lot of other spells difficult, since they are based upon measuring spell level and/or caster level.

Of course, this might just be me reading the rules too literally... and also my wishful thinking that picking a kitsune out of a crowd shouldn't be trivial. I just figure that since supernatural abilities can't be dispelled (THAT is in the rules at least) that they shouldn't detect as magical either.

EDIT: Oh right, I just remembered the real reason why I believe supernatural abilities are missed by detect magic. The auras chart only lists spells and magical items as generating an aura. Supernatural abilities are neither of those.


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nighttree wrote:
So not really specifically interested in any of the races this book is focused on....how many of the mechanics options (Feats, spells, etc...) are actually usable by other races ???

From what I can tell, most of the options aside from racial traits and favored class bonuses are available to all races as long as they can meet the prereqs. For example, most kitsune vigilante abilities and feats are available to all (kitsune passed them on to others, or inspired them). However, the shapechanging feats and abilities require that the user either be a shapechanger or have wildshape.

Most of the abilities are most useful for most thematic for the race that they are grouped with however.


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Amusing fact: the kitsune vigilante favored class bonus is +1/2 to the disguise bonus from seamless guise. A high level kitsune who combines that with Seamless Shapechanger so he adds gets to use his Seamless Disguise bonus while shape-changed can get truly absurd disguise skill checks.

Let's see, the theoretical total is...
+10 racial
+10 polymorph
+20 seamless disguise
+10 favored class bonus
+20 skill points
+3 class skill
+6 skill focus (for absurdity)
+1 for average kitsune charisma mod
For a total of a +80 bonus to disguise. If he rolls a 20, he gets a disguise skill check of 100. He won't detect as magical by the way, you need true seeing to see past the disguise. A level 20 kitsune vigilante with the realistic likeness feat could pretend to be your best friend, one of your parents, and your spouse all in the same day and you'd never suspect a thing.


Matrix Dragon wrote:
Talonhawke wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Wow, after parsing the rules a bit, I think that a transformation focused kitsune with sneak attack is really good now. The build just takes a while to come together because of the BAB requirement on Vulpine Pounce.

Technically, you can feint an opponent at long range, it usually just doesn't accomplish anything since feint only works for melee attacks. However, a kitsune with the transformation feats can shapeshift as a swift action, get a free feint, and then pounce the opponent for a full round attack of sneak attacks. Unless I am mistaken, you can get both the feint *and* the pounce off of a single swift action shapeshift. That's... really deadly.

Too bad only a slayer can meet the BAB requirements at a reasonable level though, and they don't have high sneak attack. Also, there is always a chance that there is something that keeps this from working that I haven't seen in the actual book yet.

Don't know if the feint would apply to all the attacks.

In theory, the Greater Feint Feat would make the opponent lose his dexterity bonus for an entire round.

The biggest drawback to this build is probably going to be the sheer number of feats involved. Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Greater Feint, Quick Kitsune Shapechanger, Vulpine Pounce, plus the new Transform+Feint feat. Plus the character would want the usual Weapon Finesse feats... ick.

Annnd it turns out this doesn't work after all. Shapechanging Savage lets you make the feint as a swift action, but quick shapechange is also a swift action. That means you can't combine this with a full attack, since you would have to do the shapechange as a move or standard action. I guess I'm having trouble seeing the point in this feat now, since it doesn't really help with your action economy in any way?

Well, I guess it does let you feint against more creature types.


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KitsuneWarlock wrote:

The Best part of the kitsune?

** spoiler omitted **

Yup. Fighters can now get all nine tails at level 6. And Oracles at level 7.

Those kitsune racial traits and favored class bonuses are REALLY good. They're not overpowered, but they add exactly the kinds of flavor that the race needed. They can get tails more easily, be skilled and intelligent tricksters, and have a starting fox form.

A little sad that none of the racial traits replace the bite attack, but I will admit that may have been a hard one to explain away.

You can tell that a lot of thought went into the kitsune section, as if they had a certain really kitsune obsessed person write a lot of it ;)


KitsuneWarlock wrote:
What?! Superior Shapeshifter alternate racial trait lets kitsune get Fox Form at level 1, ignoring prerequisites, instead of Kitsune Magic. Oh. my God.

Omg. That's amazing.


Talonhawke wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Wow, after parsing the rules a bit, I think that a transformation focused kitsune with sneak attack is really good now. The build just takes a while to come together because of the BAB requirement on Vulpine Pounce.

Technically, you can feint an opponent at long range, it usually just doesn't accomplish anything since feint only works for melee attacks. However, a kitsune with the transformation feats can shapeshift as a swift action, get a free feint, and then pounce the opponent for a full round attack of sneak attacks. Unless I am mistaken, you can get both the feint *and* the pounce off of a single swift action shapeshift. That's... really deadly.

Too bad only a slayer can meet the BAB requirements at a reasonable level though, and they don't have high sneak attack. Also, there is always a chance that there is something that keeps this from working that I haven't seen in the actual book yet.

Don't know if the feint would apply to all the attacks.

In theory, the Greater Feint Feat would make the opponent lose his dexterity bonus for an entire round.

The biggest drawback to this build is probably going to be the sheer number of feats involved. Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Greater Feint, Quick Kitsune Shapechanger, Vulpine Pounce, plus the new Transform+Feint feat. Plus the character would want the usual Weapon Finesse feats... ick.


Wow, after parsing the rules a bit, I think that a transformation focused kitsune with sneak attack is really good now. The build just takes a while to come together because of the BAB requirement on Vulpine Pounce.

Technically, you can feint an opponent at long range, it usually just doesn't accomplish anything since feint only works for melee attacks. However, a kitsune with the transformation feats can shapeshift as a swift action, get a free feint, and then pounce the opponent for a full round attack of sneak attacks. Unless I am mistaken, you can get both the feint *and* the pounce off of a single swift action shapeshift. That's... really deadly.

Too bad only a slayer can meet the BAB requirements at a reasonable level though, and they don't have high sneak attack. Also, there is always a chance that there is something that keeps this from working that I haven't seen in the actual book yet.


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Hmmm, it is cool that these new kitsune feats and abilities can basically give them a unique playstyle when used for sneak attack feint builds. A kitsune slayer with just a few of the transformation feats will have swift action feints, pounce, and a fox form for scouting. I'm sure that some interesting builds for dazzling display might be possible as well.

Kind of saddened that we don't have a full 'kitsune bloodline', but I guess this sorcerer archetype can kind of make any bloodline into a kitsune bloodline, lol. I've just never felt like the tailed feats were worth it for kitsune sorcerers since they don't benefit from the race's enchantment bonuses.


The best place to get kitsune miniatures at the moment is via HeroForge.com, since they added fox tails and canine heads as options for their custom miniatures. I was able to make a really cool kitsune pyrokineticist miniature using that site.

Here's a link to the model that I created: Hero Forge Kitsune Pyrokineticist

For other options, Stonehaven Miniatures has a pretty good kitsune swordsman, and Reaper is going to be releasing some kitsunes soon.

The problem with all of these is that they have only one tail though. >_<


I'm usually not a fan of wild magic, but after reading over the handbook I find this pretty interesting. I really like your idea of having feats where you can choose to increase your wild magic chance in exchange for some benefit.

I am also in favor of anything that will get rid of the silly 1 in 100 chance of casting a fireball that comes with the current wild magic drawback, lol.


The one thing in the book that I have to complain about is the "Unnatural Transformation" drawback. This could have been a very flavorful drawback option with the way it leaves signs of your true identity and makes you weak to silver weapons while shapeshifted. However, the silver weapons weakness is too extreme.

Make a will save with a DC equal to the damage dealt to you with a silver weapon or lose the transformation? You know that damage based DCs are nearly impossible to make at mid to high levels and especially when you might have to make several saves during a full attack, right?


GM Rednal wrote:

As I like to say... Spheres of Power is about saying "yes" to your ideas. XD That's one of the reasons I love it so much.

(Incidentally, are you interested in leaving a review? I'm sure the creators would love to hear more of your thoughts - and that could help influence the content we'll get in future handbooks.)

I was thinking of leaving one, though I'd have to put it on drivethrurpg.com since I bought it there ;)


This is a *very* good book for creating shapeshifting themed characters. Not only does it give additional options for Spheres Alteration users, it gives players the option of taking the Transformation feat to make their character into a supernatural shapeshifter with a single alternate form just like a Kitsune.... without even being a spellcaster.

That transformation feat is super useful and flavorful. You could take it (with improved transformation for size change) in order to give any monster a human form that doesn't detect as magical. Or you could create a level 1 human fighter who can turn into a medium dragon. Or you could create a character with a Wolf form, and take Hybrid Transformation for a hybrid form for a werewolf themed character. The options are endless and I love it :D


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Honestly, this issue with non-evil undead makes me wish that the game system did a lot more to differentiate between 'unholy undead' and 'spirits'. Maghara seems to be more of a spirit than an undead monster to me, and the fact that it would be harmed by positive energy doesn't seem right.


I've been wanting a way to let players 'control' a corruption by using feats or something similar. Nice!


My favorite multiclass character is: Draconic Sorcerer 13/Paladin 2/Dragon Disciple 6/Lunar Oracle 1. Works best with the mythic power that lets you use your caster level as your BAB, otherwise you might need more Dragon Disciple levels for accuracy. I think I used the archer paladin archetype to gain free precise shot since I didn't need the heavy armor proficiency.

I went with the theme of a silver dragon blooded follower of Apsu. Very fun character. He also adds his charisma to everything.


Kitsune, Wyvaran, and Skinwalkers are my favorites. Honorable mentions go to half-elfs, tengu, and undine.

Kitsune are my favorite simply because of the real-life lore behind them, and their shapeshifting means they can blend in when they need to. They open up a lot of roleplaying opportunities for me.

Wyvaran have become interesting to me lately after legacy of dragons and I really needed a dragon race to play. The lack of a real dragon themed race in pathfinder has always bothered me, and I am glad to finally have one available.

I'm a fan of Skinwalkers simply because I like Lycanthropes. The execution of the races abilities leave much to be desired, but they have a lot of thematic powers that are fun to build a character around. I am always looking for a way to play one of these because I like the idea of Lycanthropes that aren't a danger to society.

The chances of me playing starfinder will go up significantly of one of these races gets included somehow.


Life Oracles are amazing simply because they are greater than the sum of their parts.

1. Fey Founding - heal the damage that you absorb from others more efficiently
2. Life Link - absorb damage from the whole party
3. Shield Other - Take half the damage that the tank is getting
4. Channel Energy - Heal the whole party, but you also get +2 healing per die. That's +10 healing per round at level 9.
5. At later levels, use quick channel and healing spells at the same time.

The end result is the most efficient healer in the game.

I have been in parties with an optimized Life Oracle. In PFS games you basically stop worrying about dying from simple damage, because it would take something completely absurd to actually kill anyone in a party with a Life Oracle. This means that combats end very quickly because the rest of the party kills things without worrying about self preservation.


Azten wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Let's see, things that I would remove...

1. The Big Six magical items (replaced with a feat-like system that imitates item bonuses)
3. Touch Attack Guns

1) If you have to take the feats then this is even worse than the Big 6.

3) Didn't guns punch through armor though?

1) I said "feat-like", not "feats". Each character gets one for free at every level, in addition to everything their characters normally get. Except for their missing big-six items of course. ;)

3) Yea, but so can many other weapons in the right circumstances. I see no reason why guns should operate by a completely different system than everything else simply because they are guns. It really destroys my suspension of disbelief.


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It is saddening that Drakes were hit by Paizo's fear of giving us nice things.

I wonder what the best way of fixing them via house rules would be. Should the drakes be buffed, or should the affected classes get their class features back?


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Let's see, things that I would remove...

1. The Big Six magical items (replaced with a feat-like system that imitates item bonuses)
2. The entire spell-slot based casting system (and it gets replaced with Spheres of Power)
2. Touch Attack Guns

Luckily for me, my houserules already do all of these things! I complete the work in record time and get a bonus!


Why is it that the books I get the most excited about are almost always the ones that get delayed? T_T


1. Sorcerer
2. Summoner
3. Oracle

Yea, most of the time I only play Charisma based spontaneous casters...

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