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Red Dragon

Matrix Dragon's page

1,336 posts. Alias of Matrixryu.


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For just a few line items, that sure sounds like a lot of content stuffed into this book. I'm looking forward to this.

The Outer Dragon sorcerers sounds terrifying btw.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
zergtitan wrote:
Does anybody know when this product page will be updated?
When Pharasma wills it.

I bet the next book's description will be updated first just to mess with us ;)

*fingers crossed for Dragon Eidolons*


Snowlilly wrote:
I was under the impression most alchemists took Accelerated Drinker

It doesn't work for alchemists because extracts don't count as 'potions'. Yes, it is silly, lol.


swoosh wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
The problem is that mythic stretches and breaks the limits of Pathfinder.

The problem? Isn't that literally the whole point of the system?

Quote:
Mythic made Wrath of the Righteous a walkthrough
While true, that goes for all of the non-mythic APs too.

The problem was that Mythic made Wrath of the Righteous into a complete joke. By book 5 our GM had completely given up on having us fight anything other than major bosses after our Wizard killed a group of four Thanatotic Titans (each a CR 22) in a single round. He had to buff the HP of bosses into the thousands in order to get it to last two rounds. My character didn't even get to fight the final boss of the campaign because the other players destroyed its thousands of hit points too quickly.

The thing that killed mythic is that it takes a game that gets out of hand at high levels and made it worse. It didn't break the limits in a good way.


I would love to see Paizo expand the mythic rules, but at this point it seems pretty unlikely. There was an incredible backlash against Paizo because all mythic did was crank the rocket tag up to 11 when it should have been giving characters better defenses and fun abilities.

The only way Paizo is going to get more than a few gaming groups to take mythic seriously again is by rewriting the entire Mythic Adventures book, so until that happens I doubt we are going to see anything.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Indeed. Hoping we hit lots of stretch goals.
I'm hoping that it gets to the point where Tengu (a yet to be shown stretch goal) could be added in :)
I would LOVE to reach them. They don't start unlocking until $10,000 though, so we're going to need some serious push to reach them.

It is a little saddening that it doesn't look like there is any way we will reach that point, but at least Tengu are probably going to get a good amount of background from Paizo eventually. The Tengu seem to be their favorite Dragon Empires race.

I'm hoping that we at least hit the "More Archetypes" goal ;)


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Alexander Augunas wrote:
Eric Hinkle wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
jedi8187 wrote:

Is the Agathiel archetype basically a specialization (Like Warlock and Zealot) or is can it still pick avenger/stalker specialization? What does it trade, and what does it gain?

I really like the idea of this archetype

The agathiel alters dual identity and trades out the 2nd, 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th level vigilante talents. Specialization is not affected.

It gains a restriction as to alignment, Aspect of the Beast as a bonus feat while in vigilante form, and the ability to imitate an animal that later turns in the ability to transform into one indefinitely, though they don't gain ability bonuses and only a limited number of abilities, though these increase as they level up.

I have to say, it seems like the agathiel archetype loses an awful lot of its talents.
Yeah, at-will indefinite-duration shapeshifting tends to do that.

The Agathiel also gets one huge advantage over other shapeshifters like druids: their gear doesn't merge into their new form. It reshapes to fit the animal form. That means he can get the full benefits of armor (but not weapons).

He is also trading those vigilante talents for the ability to choose abilities from the beast shape spell list when he shapeshifts. At level 16 they can get 3 beast shape III abilities or 1 beast shape IV ability.


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Kobold Cleaver wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Polymorph Any Object, only turn things into less dangerous things. AMF suppresses the polymorph effect, and now you've got the dangerous version. It's a good contingency against dispel attempts, too!
I like this, mainly because it doesn't just shut down the spell or use a questionable workaround like that damn Snowball spell. It's a fun twist, too!

Here's one: use polymorph any object to create floor tiles over lava pits that cover every square except the one the BBEG is standing on. When the antimagic field activates, the tiles disappear and the caster falls into a lava pit.

Be sure to have to BBEG laugh maniacally afterwards.


I wonder how many player companions it would take to cover all the dragon related things that people want out of this one book, lol.

Probably all of them.


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The Agathiel Vigilante archetype is pretty cool. I can see it being used as a flavorful archetype for a skinwalker or kitsune who wants to use an animal form as their primary combat form.


Interjection Games wrote:
Take whatever you took in the first day. You'll make half that much in the last 48 hours, easy. :)

I hope that is the case, because things have slowed down a bit again. Or maybe kickstarters just tend to move faster on weekends? Hmmm.

Sorry, I've done a few kickstarters before, but this is the first time I've watched the numbers fairly closely XD


Gahhh, I was hoping this wouldn't be delayed so that I could use in the Carrion Crown game that I just started. Oh well.


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Cruel Illusion wrote:

I hope there will be a way to have 1000 years old nine-tailed kitsunes. Short-lived kitsune make my head hurt.

Nagaji subraces would be awesome.

The small numbers of pages also doesn't seem like it will allow for a description of realms and societies.

Yea, short lived kitsune hurts my head as well. One of the main things about kitsune (in legends) is that they are just foxes and nothing special until they are at least 100 years old.


Luthorne wrote:
Indeed. Hoping we hit lots of stretch goals.

I'm hoping that it gets to the point where Tengu (a yet to be shown stretch goal) could be added in :)


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Now the kickstarter is painfully close to being funded: $3990!

Edit: Annnnddddd Funded! There's plenty of time left too, so now we should be getting a bunch of stretch goals :)


I'm still eyeing that $100 level with the character pictures, but those who got to it first sure aren't budging, lol.


Johnnycat93 wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
8. Currently experimenting with the Spheres of Power 3rd party rules.
I can endorse spheres of power, that stuff's great. The only thing I'd say is be watchful of Incanters since, RAW, you can take a 1-level dip for insane power.

Thanks for the tip!


ckdragons wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

1. The big six magical items have been replaced with a feat-like system that allows players to gain their necessary bonuses without being gear reliant.

Post your "feat-like system for big-6 items" please.

I used to have a public copy of that document that I would share (yes, document... it is several pages long). I have to hold it back at the moment though because I have been polishing and fine tuning the system so much that I am wondering if I could sell it as a 3rd party rules supplement, lol.


My numerous houserules are thoroughly documented and organized in google docs for the convenience of my players, lol. Here are a few of the basics though:

1. The big six magical items have been replaced with a feat-like system that allows players to gain their necessary bonuses without being gear reliant.

2. Various feats, spells, classes, and archetypes surgically banned for game balance including: gunslingers, master summoner, a few archery feats, traits that reduce metamagic costs or give +2 INIT.

3. the 3.5 Two-weapon pounce feat has been added.

4. Two-Weapon Fighting and Vital Strike scale now.

5. Hero Points are a allowed, with an updated action list. They can't be used for offensive actions.

6. Several Unchained rules in effect. Background Skills, Unchained Summoner, Unchained Barbarian.

7. Good will saves for Fighters and Rogues.

8. Currently experimenting with the Spheres of Power 3rd party rules.


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Summoners can see through their eidolons for a limited number of minutes per day.


Some good stuff has been added to the pledge tiers, though the Dynastic Everybundle definitely looks like it is still the most efficient one for me. None of the other tiers seem to have the "Get Every PDF So Far" thing going on, lol.

Dynastic Sovereign for all the printed versions is tempting though, even if I already have Ultimate Charisma. No pdfs mentioned for that one though? I'm guessing that was just an oversight.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
This is true, but just keep in mind that Alex is *also* probably writing the Kitsune section of the next Player's Companion that is going to talk about them. I wouldn't be surprised if some of this stuff sneaks into that book as well and becomes official. Even if it didn't, getting to write official material gives additional legitimacy to your 3rd party material ;)
If I *was* writing that section, I would have a Paizo developer making sure anything I wrote was OK for Pathfinder canon. Freelancers don't design in a bubble. ^_^

Oh, of course not. I guess what I meant was that *if* you were writing that section, it would make it less likely that anything you released on your own afterwards would conflict with it. ;)

I see that you added a bunch of new pledge tiers. I'm going to have to take a look at those.


Luthorne wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Personally, I would have (cheated) handled half-kitsune just by creating some human racial traits ;)

One amusing fact: this kills one of my theories about where kitsune came from in the pathfinder world. I had a theory that kitsune were actually half-breeds between humans and some sort of spirit creature or kami. A true kitsune so to speak. But their bloodlines don't weaken, so I guess that isn't possible.

Well, remember that this doesn't have to be canonical...it's a third party supplement, after all. Mind you, I expect it will be a good resource for people wanting to make characters of these races - I wouldn't be supporting it otherwise! - but you can certainly choose to tweak things in your own games, after all! And it's not like your concept is necessarily impossible, it could be that the kami in question's spiritual genetics are just too powerful, and continue to overwhelm human genetics...

This is true, but just keep in mind that Alex is *also* probably writing the Kitsune section of the next Player's Companion that is going to talk about them. I wouldn't be surprised if some of this stuff sneaks into that book as well and becomes official. Even if it didn't, getting to write official material gives additional legitimacy to your 3rd party material ;)


Mark Seifter wrote:
KaiserBruno wrote:
Were-dinosaurs. That alone would be enough to sell me.
It's a simple lycanthrope template, so you basically pick your animal, which allows you to pick whichever you want! (such as dinosaurs)

But the example in the quote mentioned were-dinosaur dragons? I thought only humanoids could get lycanthropy?


Personally, I would have (cheated) handled half-kitsune just by creating some human racial traits ;)

One amusing fact: this kills one of my theories about where kitsune came from in the pathfinder world. I had a theory that kitsune were actually half-breeds between humans and some sort of spirit creature or kami. A true kitsune so to speak. But their bloodlines don't weaken, so I guess that isn't possible.


I might have to take a look at that book you mentioned, but it sounds like they change the kitsune too much for it to be useful in my games :(

I may as well divert the discussion away from the kitsune a bit: I'm also interested in the Nagaji section as well. I have been kind of ignoring them for a while because they aren't dragonkin and naga are weird (and aberrations for some reason?). If they got a more interesting treatment though I would probably play one.


Luthorne wrote:
Well, kitsune don't completely fit various Japanese legends in the first place, given their general nature...Paizo generally seems to be going for the concept that those legends are distortions of the true nature of kitsune and provide reasons that those misunderstandings arose in the first place. So it's not like it doesn't make sense as an approach.

Yea, it is true that Pathfinder kitsune don't really fit with the legends. If they did, their natural form would be like a normal fox... which would cause all sorts of gear related issues because items can't merge with you when you're returning to your natural form. I just have a soft spot for basing characters on legends and stories, so I always fall back to that sort of stuff, lol.


Maybe the reason why technology isn't used on other planes is because the laws of physics work differently there? It makes technology unreliable, especially if you travel between planes regularly.

Of course, the problem is that this isn't currently reflected in the rules at all.


Cool kickstarter update. Not sure if I am a fan of the "no half-kitsune" thing since it clashes with various Japanese legends. It is still cool to see that the question is being addressed though ;)

On a different subject: I am a little worried that part of the reason why things are slowing down is because everyone seems to want the 'limited' pledge tiers. Hmmm.

Just curious, I know that you can't edit existing pledge tiers, but can you add new ones? I think if you created a tier that combined the mass of free PDFs from the "Dynastic Everybundle" with the POD copies of the Adventures books some people would go for those.


Unfortunately, half-dragon templates aren't particularly useful for players. They probably won't be in this book.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

Yay, $3000 even!

So, Alex, care to give us any teasers about what sort of new things might be going into the book? ;)

Sure!

The culture section is a lot longer has about four more spreads of information about things like family life. I also want to add a special article for each race about something that makes it unique, but that's a stretch goal.

Sounds cool! There are definitely a lot of questions about the family lives of some of these races. Especially since some of them have a higher than normal chance of not being just among their own kind, such as Samsaran and Kitsune.


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Gorbacz wrote:
Meh, dragons. Between 3405 D&D books on them, I don't need any more.

Yea, the problem for me is that while I WANTED to play D&D back during 2nd edition, I was not able to join regular roleplaying groups until early Pathfinder. I completely missed all these dragons that other people are so tired of. The fact that so many GMs and designers actively try to keep dragons out of games now is beyond annoying for a dragon fan like myself.


Yay, $3000 even!

So, Alex, care to give us any teasers about what sort of new things might be going into the book? ;)


Well, we can just hope that the entire "vote with your wallet" theory is true. It looks like this book is going to be pretty popular, and in theory that means that we'll get more dragon themed books.


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If Paizo sneaks in a (space) dragon player race, that might get me to play Starfinder ;)


So, it looks like the Kickstarter is getting about $100-$200 a day currently? If that keeps up it should hit the goal and most of the stretch goals :D


Alexander Augunas wrote:
But hey! If you still want a character illustration, the $200 reward is still available. :D

I'll leave that one for someone who is a bit richer than me. I don't feel that strong of a need to immortalize my Mythic Kitsune Sorcerer ;)


Yizzik Uhari wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:

I *want* to like kobolds. Their ability modifiers are terrible beyond redemption though, and their "usually evil" status makes it hard to roleplay them in a normal game.

Plus they aren't really dragons ;)

What about the Wyveran? They are pretty dragon like. They need more development(another reason why I want a second race book) but they are very dragon.

Also there are race traits and feats to make Kobolds scales a metallic color and more inclinded to good. Which makes other good races more likely to trust and or like them.

Well... unfortunately Wyverans are on the opposite end of the spectrum. They gain flight too early to be a Player race in most campaigns. It would be nice to see them get developed more though.


There is a part of me that wanted to get in on the Dynastic Hero tier, but luckily for my wallet some other people grabbed that one first. I wonder how many of those character illustrations will be kitsune, lol.


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I *want* to like kobolds. Their ability modifiers are terrible beyond redemption though, and their "usually evil" status makes it hard to roleplay them in a normal game.

Plus they aren't really dragons ;)


Since there isn't a real dragon race in Pathfinder, my favorite would be Kitsune.

I am also a fan of the undine and witchwolf skinwalkers.


Alexander Augunas wrote:

WE'VE PASSED THE 25% MARK IN LESS THAN FOUR HOURS!

Matrix Dragon wrote:
I'm going to have to join in on that kickstarter when I have a chance!

Search your heart, you know you must!

Done ;)


Zaister wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
I actually really don't like the Automatic Bonus Progression system. It is very good for certain characters when it gives them every bonus they need. Characters who need unusual item combinations to function suffer however.
Interesting. Can you name these certain characters who need these "unusual item combinations"? I'm curious.

Kineticists suffer the worst actually. That is because they usually don't use weapons, and things like armor are secondary concerns for them. All they really want is More Dex and Con. However, they have to wait longer than everyone else before they get their necessary bonuses. A fighter will get +1 to attack, damage, and AC at level 4. The kineticist doesn't get his first +2 to a physical stat until level 7. Casters at least get their first mental bonuses at level 6.

If you get really technical about it shapeshifters, monks, and natural attack users are messed over as well because they don't have weapons and armor to attune. Some GMs will be willing to work around that.

Pure arcane casters also have some issues, because they get these weapon and armor bonuses that they will never use. Normally they would be putting that money towards metamagic rods or something.


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I'm going to have to join in on that kickstarter when I have a chance!


I actually really don't like the Automatic Bonus Progression system. It is very good for certain characters when it gives them every bonus they need. Characters who need unusual item combinations to function suffer however.

I ended up just using a (somewhat complicated) houserule system where the players get to pick a bonus to gain when they level up.


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Luthorne wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
djones wrote:
zergtitan wrote:
True thought at the same time something like this would work best because technically in the original legends the child of a human and a kitsune was just a normal human but with greater spiritual powers then a normal human. No shapeshifting, no fox form or appearance.
So Fey bloodline sorceror
Technically, the Kitsune really should have a Spirit Sorcerer Bloodline. They don't actually have any ties to the fey, but it is the closest thematic thing that we have right now.

I dunno, they speak sylvan, so I presume there's some connection. And yokai hunter considers aberration, dragon, fey, magical beast, outsider (native), and undead (incorporeal) to be yokai for it, so it's probably suggestive that a yokai bloodline would most likely be aberrant, draconic, fey, or undead.

That said, I would love to see a kami bloodline for sorcerers and bloodragers from Paizo, as well as a race of kami-descended (for the moment, I generally have to use reflavored aasimar), but somehow I doubt this will be the book that covers them.

In the Golarion setting (as opposed to Generic setting), kisune don't actually know sylvan. Their starting languages are Tian and Senzar. Senzar is the language of the Spirits and Kami in Tian Xia ;)


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djones wrote:
zergtitan wrote:
True thought at the same time something like this would work best because technically in the original legends the child of a human and a kitsune was just a normal human but with greater spiritual powers then a normal human. No shapeshifting, no fox form or appearance.
So Fey bloodline sorceror

Technically, the Kitsune really should have a Spirit Sorcerer Bloodline. They don't actually have any ties to the fey, but it is the closest thematic thing that we have right now.


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Caleb D'natin wrote:
Would a half kitusne be ppossible?

I don't see why not. It happened in at least one Japanese legend, and in Pathfinder terms shapeshifting makes it possible.


Azten wrote:
Somehow I doubt possession wouldn't be enchantment. Foxfire would like be evocation based, and life drain necromancy. Maybe like the Dhampir ability(feat?).

I believe that the new possession spells from Occult Adventures are actually necromancy like magic jar. Kitsune are just currently no better at using those spells than anyone else ;)


I'm really looking forward to finally getting some real information on the kitsune from this book. Right now all we know is that they kind of exist and have an odd connection to both the spirits and humans. There are so many unanswered questions.

We know nothing about where they came from, why they can only turn very specifically into humans and nothing else, why Daikitsu is so different from her race, or how kitsune even find one another when so many of them are pretending to be human. Plus, the subject of half-kitsune has never been addressed even though they almost certainly exist. Kitsune are shapeshifters after all: in Tian Xia half-kitsune they should probably be more common than half-elves and half-orcs, lol.

I just hope that Alex finds some way to balance our need for information with the need for more character options. I'm still holding my breath for some of the non-enchantment kitsune themed powers from various legends such as foxfire, life drain, and possession ;)

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