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I have to say though, I am very impressed by how you went out of your way to make sure that *every single type of true dragon* was covered. Writing entries for everything for chromatic, metalic, planar, imperial, outer dragons and probably more that I forgot three times over (for races, the class, and animal companions) must have been mind numbing XD
Gore+bite is not limited by 'attacks per limb'. Wingless dragons specifically have a gore attack (in addition to the bite) to make up for their lack of wing attacks.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Yea, giving out the alternative racial traits could be a good option. Though not all races actually have a good selection of those either. I'd probably have to use some sort of combination.
I've read over the dragon 'animal companion' section. I like the idea and general execution of it, though the OCD part of me is bothered by the fact that the dragon don't have dragon hit dice (they don't have full bab). I guess it is hard to work that in while keeping things balanced though XD
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Hmmm, yea, another feat and two +2 bonuses is very powerful when you calculate in how they interact with a character's build. Maybe another method would be to give the other characters free racial feats? 2-3 bonus racial feats so strengthen the traits of their race compared to everything the dragon has. Flavorful without being immediately useful for someone's build (usually).
Luckily for me I think I have a good method of balancing out dragon player characters in my games. I use houserules for replacing about half of a player's magical items with a feat-like subsystem. I'll simply take away a good number of a dragon character's abilities (with some sort of explanation of course) and require him to buy them back at the cost of a number of his picks from the subsystem. I might also give them a wisdom penalty since they're young by dragon standards ;)
I recently picked up this PDF. I haven't had time for thorough read through, but I like what I've seen so far. I really like the idea that there is an actual mechanical reason for why a dragon wouldn't want to go out and gain class levels in normal circumstances. The choice between gaining lots of power slowly or some power quickly makes things a lot more believable when you have to explain why only a few dragons go out and adventure. It also helps explain why adventuring dragons have a very different (and weaker) set of stats.
I'll have to do a more in depth reading before I decide what parts I would let my players use, but it is looking good!
Also, Alex you keep on making these great pdfs which cover the exact subjects I would write if I got off my butt and started writing third party material! And you're probably writting them better than I could too! Stop it! ;)
Just wanted to ask about a question that has been bugging me for a while. Say that you have a Witch with the Misfortune hex and an Oracle with the Misfortune revelation in the same party.... you probably already see where this is going.
The witch hexes an enemy with misfortune. If it has to roll for something, and rolls two 20s, what happens if the oracle THEN uses his misfortune ability on him? Does he reroll just one of the dice? Both? Does he reroll one die, but has to roll it twice and take the lowest because the witch's misfortune is still active?
I may as well also ask, what happens if something is affected by a Misfortune hex and Ill Omen at the same time? Does it have to roll 3 times, or do the abilities not stack?
Believe it or not, these are situations that may come up in a game we are playing pretty soon. Our GM is going to hate us XD
In my opinion, mythis is fun but has a bit too heavy of an impact on the game. Monsters simply can't stand up to mythic characters. Also, there is a huge rocket tag problem because players tends to gravitate towards offense rather than defense.
Due to my experince with mythic in WotR, I would suggest that you abandon the standard tier system. Rather than the benefits that a character would gain with a tier just let them pick a (non overpowered) mythic power and give them a level's worth of bonus hit points. Maybe give them a few of the survival powers from teir 1 for free. Ban both mythic feats and spells, and ignore mythic path restrictions since they can't pick dual path.
This way you gain a lot of the fun of mythic without all the crazy (and unnecessary) fiddly bits like +10 worth of stat boosts, extra standard actions, and essentially unlimited spells per day.
Seriously, we had so many resouces that our GM made us play through all of book 5's major encounters in WotR without a single rest to regain spells/abilities.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Ah well, the fact that I'll be able to train out of my Eldritch Heritage (Arcane Bloodline Familiar) feats keeps me happy enough ;)
I just got my copy of the PDF. Turns out that only Wizards can get the school familliars. Saddening, but it makes sense thematically.
HOWEVER. Sorcerers can get bloodline familliars. The abilities aren't as powerful, but you get them only for the cost of losing your first bloodline power and geting your bonus spells one level later.
That's really good if you don't care about the spells, since first level powers generally aren't that great anyway.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
That would work, though I have been running into a lot of stuff with See Invisibility lately.
Whoa. That lesser one is crazy. Now if only I could figure out a way to use it consistantly without getting my familliar killed XD I think an improved familliar with dimension door is the ticket....
As if my Kitsune Fey Sorcerer's enchantments weren't frightening enough :D
Mark Seifter wrote:
*sadface* Glad that there will be clarifications though :D
Hey Mark! Random obscure kineticist question.
I know that kineticists (in the last writeup I saw) are supposed to use their hands to fire their blasts. However, it seems to be assumed that kineticists in Elemental Form can still use their blasts even though it is kind of questionable whether or not elementals can have 'hands'. Does that mean blasts could be used in other polymorphed forms?
I'm asking because I really want to run a kitsune pyrokineticist with fox form. You know it would be awsome ;) (and thanks to the size bonus stuff kineticists get in the new version, it won't even be overpowered now, lol)
First, you should make it clear before the campaign starts that the fights won't all be tailor made for the party. They may run into something that WILL kill them if they fight it head on.
Second, if the characters are about to fight said unbeatable encounter, give them all DC 5 wisdom checks to realize that this is a really bad idea. By having a roll be involved, that makes it feel like their characters realized this rather than an out of game voice saying "no you shouldn't fight this".
A lot of people here seem to be forgetting that the demons at least need to have a 'reliable description' of where they are going. If adventruers want to keep a surprise teleport from happening all they have to do is move their campsite. Add something to block scrying if necessary.
Depending on how reliable of a description the GM requires, a king could fool a teleport spell just by moving his bedroom to another part of his castle or changing the furniture every once in a while. Of course, this is completely ignoring the fact that a king should be able to pay to have his castle constantly dimension locked.
I do want to give one suggestion for a defense for pyrokineticists: one of the coolest fire based defensive abilities that I have seen was in the anime Witch Hunter Robin. The way Robin used bits of fire to precisely burn down bullets before they could hit her was awsome.
Maybe an ability that lets you use fire (or some other element) to 'parry' an attack would be a nice thematic ability for kineticists?
I know that I'm late to the discussion, but I just wanted to add this about the pyrokineticist's Searing Flesh ability. My main problem with it is as you accept burn to make the ability more effective, you are actually decreasing the number of times it will 'activate' before you fall unconsious.
Think about it. If at high levels you accept 4 points of burn to increase searing flesh's effectiveness, you potentially have 80 fewer hit points to increase the damage per hit by 4d6. The thing is, when you combine that with the burn you'll be inflicting upon yourself to power your other abilities you'll be lucky to survive a few hits before you go down!
That's the real problem with Searing Flesh. The more burn you inflict upon yourself, the fewer times Searing Flesh will actually be able to activate since its effectiveness depends on you being hit. On some days if you get really unlucky you might get hit *once*, deal 7d6 points to the attacker (if he used a natural weapon, if he isn't immune to fire, if he fails the saving throw) and then go unconsious.
I said it before and I'll say it again: there is nothing in the ability that says anything about any souls being harmed in any way. Aside from it being separated from the body of course.
There is nothing in the rulebooks that actually says that players can't take bestiary feats. The bestiary just says they are more common for monsters, and if you want to get really techical Kitsune have a bestiary entry anyway.
Sorry, I just hate it when the "Players can't use bestiary feats" misconception gets spread around.
Umm, I have to point out that the Consume Life ability doesn't actually say anything about consuming souls. All it says is that you consume the target's life energy, and that it kills him. The soul goes on its way just as if you had killed the guy normally.
Yes, it is a technicality, but it makes the ability signifigantly less evil. And it isn't like the party wasn't going to CDG the guy in the end anyway.
Mark Seifter wrote:
This actually brings up another worry that I have had about this class. Once you take some burn and have Feel the Burn running, you look really really out of place in a city. People aren't going to let you walk into a building if it looks like you are on fire!
I like the idea of the visual effect, but in games where GMs take notice if it players will have to wear a Hat of Disguise just to get around. It it is about as bad as dealing with an eidolon in a town. Some players will feel like they're forced to not use burn when in a town if the Hat of Disguise isn't available, and this will effectively give them a lower accuracy than a rogue.
Maybe the visual effects of feel the burn should only come up when the kineticist is using his abilities (or when he wants them to) rather than being an all day long thing?
Mark Seifter wrote:
:D :D :D
Mark Seifter wrote:
This is true, but I have seen it happen fairly often in the games that I've played and some that I've GMed in. Not with every enemy, but I have definitely seen final bosses that the paladin had a roughly 50% chance of hitting on a first swing smite because the GM wanted the fight to last 10 rounds instead of 2.
I think part of the problem that kineticists will face will have to do with GMs balancing the party in comparison to the heaviest damage dealers. If the GM starts throwing higher CR fights in order to challenge a party with a Paladin or Ranger (both of whom can easily have +10 accuracy higher than a kineticist at level 20) then the kineticist would have a really hard hard time hitting anything without resorting to touch attacks.
I saw this sort of thing happen in Wrath of the Righteous actually. When the GM buffed the enemies to challenge our heavy hitters, he had to specifically give the enemies a low flat footed AC so that the ninja could actually hit them thanks to invisibility. A rogue would have been completely unable to do anything, and a kineticist would have had to switch to touch attacks (disregarding that they would have been immune or heavily resistant to all of his elements).
One thing that I'm a bit worried about is that the Kineticist will get its utility abilities, but that there will be gaps in their capabilities that full spellcasters will be able to cover. Will an Aerokineticist be able to do everything that a spellcaster could with Air spells? Will a Hydrokineticist be able to blast and freeze things in even close to all the varied ways that a spellcaster could with water and cold spells?
I'm not suggesting that a kineticist become a real spellcaster. I'm just thinking that it will be difficult to make a non-spellcaster have the utility of a spellcaster without some crazy abilities. And let's be honest: if the kineticist isn't going to have the skills of a rogue or bard, he's going to need a lot of 'magic' style utility.
Perhaps a way to work around the limitations of the kineticist being a non-spellcaster class would be to allow it to pay Burn to cast a spell which has a discriptor that matches his element? Let it be any spell from the wizard and druid lists with the correct descriptor and a low enough level. You could make it into an expensive last resort kind of thing by having the burn cost equal the spells level, and reducing this burn cost very slowly at higher levels.
Free utility powers is definately high on the list of things that I would like to have for the Kineticist. Playing a Pyrokineticist and not being able to at least generate my own light sources without a torch (or setting an enemy on fire) kind of drove me crazy in my playtest, but it is also something that I couldn't afford to spend a wild talent on if it was an option.
Mark Seifter wrote:
By saying that the Rogue has even more accuracy issues than the kineticist, does that mean it is safe to assume that the kineticist will get an enhancement bonus item? Because right now without any gear the Kineticist's accuracy is on par with the rogue when the kineticist has Feel The Burn and the rogue has a magical weapon. Unless I am mistaken at least.
I find it very worrying that the kineticst right now can do more damage with a bow rather than by using its class abilities. It is probably safe to assume that once it gets some items that benefit the blast though, that it will probably get better.
Perhaps *your* kineticist might. Not everyone's will. That's my point.
I have to say that in almost all cases running a Kineticist with low Con is a mistake. Even without factoring in Burn, the Con increases blast damage and is linked to most of the Kinetisist's saving throw DCs. You should have at least a 20 con (with gear) by level 20, and that's assuming you start with a 14.
Yea, and the key part is that in order to become staggered the kineticist would probably have to have a combination of both nonlethal and lethal damage. That means that at the end of each fight he can just ask the party's healer to heal the lethal damage, and he'll be right back to normal.
As for banning the feat... I don't know. I can see that happening in PFS, but that is a tougher thing to have happen in the normal game. Sure the feat is (normally) worthless, but it is kind of bad form to offically ban or change and existing feat just because of a new class. Not that anyone would care in this case XD
....You know, I just realized a that there is a really weird corner case in the rules. Diehard lets you act when you're dieing, but not when you would be knocked out from having nonlethal damage? Wut?
Wow, the flagellant feat does completely break the burn mechanic. That's kind of a big problem, especially since it will force players into a single background in order to pick it up.
Mark has returned and mentioned in a new post the Kinetic Blade doesn't provoke when used. That makes me very interested in trying a low level switch hitter build with my Kineticist. The main problem is that in order to do this I'd have to give up Precise Shot for Weapon Finesse, and I'll probably also need to increase my Dex in order to have survivable AC.
Well, the one benefit is that you are *much* harder to kill outright. Sure, you will still go unconscious early, but at high levels you'll have a buffer of one or two hundred hit points to go through before you even start bleeding out.
Hmm, I thought Mark said that Kinetic Blade currently requires a concentration check? Honestly, the thought of having only a 50% chance of even getting to make the attack roll has made me wary of using that power (along with the burn). Plus I'd need the Weapon Finesse feat as well....
You know, this is making me realize that Kinetic Blade really has too many downsides for its effect at level 1. I'd have to take damage just to move and attack, plus the class has low armor in the first place. It *might* require a concentration check as well, and requires Weapon Finesse if you aren't going to give up on ranged blasts. Getting Weapon Finesse means delaying Precise Shot. Kind of a bad combination.
It is starting to sound more and more like that this class (at low levels) needs to just ignore its class abilities and use a normal weapon in narrow corridor dungeon situations.
In my experience, every class that doesn't have either Full BAB or real spellcasting simply tends to lag a bit behind the other classes. Maybe Pathfinder Unchained will fix the rogue and monk, but it hasn't happened yet. Until then, I am extremely wary of the Kineticist having anything less than Full BAB.