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1,364 posts (1,457 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 aliases.


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Thank you so much!

I guess I can not afford all the spells as easily as I thought. Oh well.

Great break down and easy to modify for less spells now that I have the data.


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I am not fully sure how raw stacks up on this but I tend to agree with Tactislion. The thing is the fighter can pick up several CL worth of levels through items. That makes it much more useful.

In my home game I might let this one happen depending on the situation. I would probably limit the level up spell you can cast to either you MT or half your level. Fighter 1 MT9 wants wish or Fighter 18 MT 1 wants wish I am fine with that. Fighter 1 MT 1 wants wish. Not so much on this one.

As a thought exercise how would you folks read

Weapon trained
"You may wield any weapon with no penalty regardless proficiency." Lots of fluff text about using any and every weapon type out there.

Does this mean you can use a colossal great sword or does simply mean you do not suffer proficiency penalties. This is kinda similar to shield master.

Also one could argue that you have to have the spell slot to cast the spell you just do not lose it when you cast like this.

Also I agree with the OP on the silliness of "Pure RAW"


I guess the missing casting stat makes this even worse. That might kill it even basing it on stupid raw.


Flaming sphere and other effects work very well with set up. Maybe that will help those who like it static.

Can you develop a secondary shtick that will help those who want static play? Dazing spells or staggering them works.


My players know that NPC casters really buff up and go out of their way to limit their time to do this.


I wonder how Andreww will rule on this in our fight. If you use it. I can see the minimal level rule going either way.

By the way I agree with you about sno cones.

In a home game I would go with Scythia idea and even if you can crank it all the way to CL 9 or something it is still not a big deal unless you level 3 mt 1 or something. WBL should make that difficult anyway.


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The problem is you still need to have min CL to cast the spell. The stone gets you all level 1 spells and a bead of karma plus the stone gets you 1 2 and 3. Might be able to squeak out 4th level spells some how but you are not getting the upper half of spells.

This only applies if you actually have CL 0 and not CL -.

I guess you could argue that CL part is only talking about lowering CL and you do whatever you want at your max level. CL 6 commune and CL 11 wish support you but are SLAs and not full spell casting.


Actually I think that Mythic JMD031 might have the right of why this does not work. If you have CL 0 instead of - then CL increasing things could let you cast some spells. I think even as high as 4th level spells could happen.


That would work but then you are restricted to your SLAs only since they are spontaneously cast.

This works if your CL is 0 but if you CL is - I am not sure what happens.

In the end the fighter will only get his Mythic power a day in spells. That can be alot at tier 10 but who cares.

As he points out this no worse then sno cone wish machine.

I think he might use this in mythic fighter vs wizard 20 battle. Since that allows all raw silliness then the real issue just what to do with caster level.


Is there a search option somewhere that will tell me how many spells of each level there are? I do not want to actually count all of them if I do not have to.


I agree on SLAs and items that cast the spell but not items that create a constant effect similar to spell. Like magic weapon on sword or true see goggles.


Can I wish myself next to someone undetectable?
What happens if I summon creature into his square?
What happens if I try and enter his square.
When do I notice his actions? When attacks me? Hits me? Damages me?
Can I backplot an arrow or even see it coming?

Just wondering if there is any rules consensus on this stuff.


Bumping this since many new spell have come out since then.


Thanks.

My tactic so far does not involve bring any one else into the fight but the prep time is taking awhile.

Feats, Spell list, and stats are done. My prep round and 1st round of actions are planned out.

Buffs spells and items are going to take forever to wade through. Also need to find out how much it costs to have every wizard spell in a blessed books.


If I have a spellbane up against greater dispel magic and some wishes up a greater dispel magic does my spellbane block it?

What about effects that duplicate but do not cast a spell that is baned?
SLAs?


I think I can be done by Thursday at 6 in the morning. Probably sooner but life gets in the way.

If Anzyr is ready he can of course have the first round. I could be done in time for a second round.


My wizard is coming along but I am not sure I can get all the details down by Sunday. I am trying but a 6 year old makes that hard.

If Andrew will grant I would love an extension.

@BigTBone How do you deal with Winds of Vengeance? I think that shuts down any ranged build but maybe mythic has got an answer.


What kestral said.

How high can we go in the start zone before the barrier goes down?

Infinity high changes things a bit. I recommend either 100 or 1000 feet.


I guess that works since far more then 220K will be wondrous items. I was wondering if it refereed to feats that have craft in their name. Still I guess forge ring would count and that is not likely to be high on the list.

Can we combine more then 1 item into 1 item by making the lower 1 cost 50 percent more?


Does scribe scroll count as crafting feat?


How will you resolve contingencies that have the same trigger? I recommend and init check.

I thought true creation was 7 for some reason. Oops guess that will not work.

Is the starting areas 100 by 100 along 1 wall or 100 by 1000 along 1 wall. If the smaller do we know where along the wall our foes starting zone is?

During the 1 round that the god barrier is in force are win in initiative?
Do we know the exact moment we are to transported? To the min? to the hour? Can we find out?


I would love a smaller playing field. As long as I get my prepared spells and always on buffs allowed this would be easier.

In that tiny room the fighter must be either in my square or other one. Undetectable is useless here.

In the current setup I worry about the two of search forever and missing due to infinite height. It really a matter of detection radius. As a wizard I think I can detect the undetectable in larger area then he can get his non magic sense to go.


Thank you for all of the clarifications.

I guess I should clarify what I mean by break WBL since it relates to blood money.

I can can get a free wish with blood money(or other ways) and then use it with true creation to make material components or crafting material. If I do this after the gods obliterate stuff can I use the extra wealth towards other things?

From what it looks like right now I can use material component hacks (blood money or SLAs) to not pay for those but I can not go farther then that using true creation to make more GP.


Please take these rule arguments to the other thread. The rules for this fight are posted. Ask questions about those but please take the other stuff else where.


I do not know how to use roll 20. If I give sheet and tactics do I need to run the character through that system?

If so that is one more thing to learn. I will need help with that.


@andreww
1. Thanks for doing this.
2. Please let us know when you have builds that have been submitted?
3. Are you going to post mechanical details of what happens or just what the opposition can detect?
4. How does undetectable work?
I contend that divination works against it but will not reveal location. One could deduce location from plans.
Interactions with the world should be detectable weather you interacted or were interacted with. This means that a wizard will notice that he has been attacked and may even be able to know from what square. Standing on the ground or moving through environments does not entail interaction. It does mean that you can not summon into their square or enter it and that you notice that you fail to do so.
5. Can contingency react to things not detected? Example: a hostile action from an undetectable foe?
6. Does entering a rope trick count as leaving the arena?
7. Can allies not in the arena act?
8. Does a plane created while in the arena count as leaving the area?
9. Do we win if we force our foe from the plane?
10. Can we break WBL if we do so within the week allotted?
11. Can we learn about our
I am thinking of creating wizard, but i am not sure I can have it done in time. Will try.


contingent action stacks with haste so that can get you one more. If you have a way to make more then one attack as standard you can do that.


Guess they are different but death ward makes you immune to energy drain. Is there a way to get negative levels that is not energy drain?


What causes level drain that is not a death effect? I think death ward covers you for the most part.


dispel magic plus polymorph any object can make it a greatsword. It can be dispelled so might not last.


I have changed my mind. In an arena that I can not leave or I lose I think that the fighter can win.

In a battle to end each other permanently I give the edge to the wizard. The wizard has access to every wizard spell and every other spell of 7th level or lower. The mythic fighter will only have so many ways SoS you.

I think I know how to get around undetectable but it does not work if I can not leave an arena.

Since undetectable does only prevents me from learning your location I can learn your plans. Mind blank hurts this but can be worked around if you interact with any thing that knows its you.

Once you are known to be in a finite area I can stop time. With my timeless (magic) I can recharge my spells and not ever leave time stop as long as I get back to my plane before TS ends.

That means I can summon a creature into every square in the zone I know you are in. A summon will eventually fail since I can not summon into your square. If this does not happen then you are sharing a space with creature in the zone and I need to target all of them.

Also infinite time stop, false focus, and true creation allows for instant infinite wealth and infinite crafting time. Also one really bored wizard. Less so if siming up a great wyrm dragon can get you 9th level arcane spells. Pages of spell knowledge make sure it can cast the right spell. This route take a few min to set up.

Would Yuelral's Blessing get around the hand problem with Mages enclosure?

If you have legendary item can I take it from you and use it to attack you? That might allow me to kill you once I immobilize you.


If I have built a plane that is timeless (magic) and have contingency (contingent action) cast does it matter if you win init?

The condition is "someone that I unaware of with hostile intentions gets within 25 feet of me." I then cast timestop followed by plane shift.

My spellbane keeps yours from working so you can not spellbane my timestop away. Same for AMZ.


looks like you are going to be playing in a P8 game. You can easily go P6 since the the 8th level high priest is then just a 6th level cleric with 10 extra feats.

Either way spells above 5th level do not exist and 4th level spells are real hard to get. It also means that create food and water is not something all that common so i most likely is not the only answer to the food issue.

Why does the fleet even move around? Why not just find a seaweed jungle and farm it.

In an E6 game the very high end of the monster scale is CR 15. A party of 6th level characters with 25 extra feats may just barely be able to deal with it. A CR 10 threat is a huge deal but a the tip top people in the setting can probably handle 1 of those.

Assuming you have 1000 ships and each needs a crew of 20 that is 20,000 people just for operating the ships. Another 20k might be able to be dedicated to things other then running the ships. In this society the most common job will be sailor instead of farmer so I would go with some sort of magical source of food to replace them. A Cauldron of Plenty will feed a crew plus 16 people but in your world is not replaceable. That is I think is good for your story.


I will post a built wizard in a different thread once I am done with it under the conditions that I have stated. Might take a while.


I will try and build a wizard that can beat any mythic fighter out there.

What are the rules of engagement for the dual.

I propose standard WBL for both sides. The wizard has no idea at all that the fighter wants to kill him or even exists until the fighter attacks. The wizard spends 1 hour per day in a mage academy lecturing. The rest of the time he spends in a personal demiplane. He knows that he is exposed when teaching so protects himself accordingly. Spells a duration of 24 hours or more can be assumed to be always on.

I also assume a undetectable does not prevent me from know what square you are in once you attack.

Victory is incapacitation for more then a year or permanent death.


Even with out arbitrary wealth the cast is a better crafter so that doubles it. Of just you magic to make the death trap from spells.


@Cerberus: Yes time still passes but time stop is a non instant spell. There fore I get infinite rounds of apparent time. As long as I cast a new timestop just before I leave the plane I will have some rounds off the plane to act in. I just save a plane shift for the last round of TS to get back and do the whole thing again. Now I have infinite rounds where ever I want.


At 20th with timeless demiplane plus a contingent (contingent action) you can change out your list however you want as long as time stop and plane shift are one it.

As to killing this guy change the environment to death trap. Lava pit comes to mind but if fire immunity is a thing then use acid. Or build an arbitrary amount of simulacrums during you time stop and cast gate next to the fighter.

Cast teleport circle under the fighter and set it to deep space. Can he get down?


Contingency a contingent action with time stop. Then plane shift to you demiplane with the timeless (magic) trait. Plan for as long as you need since the time stop never ends. Buff up and cast time stop again. Gate back and have d4 rounds left in your TS. Plane shift and teleport works as well but take and extra spell.

If you need more time in time stop to build lava pit or what ever around the poor fighter you can just pop back to your plane and do it again.

If not even contingency is allowed as buff then he needs and item that invalidates the fighters attack.

The only way I can see for fighter to win is to up against and unbuffed wizard and be able to get an AMZ and grapple up in his turn. Even then he has to go first.


What does 20d8?


It was meant as a joke. He does a very good job pointing the issue with a summoner.

What do you all feel about the arcanist in relation to the summoner.


Outside of PFS you can take the feat even if you do not have a tail. As a GM I would just say okay you have tail since you are kobold aasimar. You GM may want you to find a way to gain a tail and alter self should do the trick.

This trick is only a real issue at very low level but you did pay feat for it. At the cost of feat it is pretty easy for a 1st level character to have more then one attack on a full attack so not unreasonable.


What is the lightning storm supposed to make the PCs do?

Can we help you make it more fun?

Also if a 1 PC is struck and they are near each other then they are all struck since lightning is dangerous through the ground. I would disregard that or reduce damage based on distance from struck target.


Battle Star Galactica is this plot but in space.

You have to ask yourself how much magic you invest in to this.

An orb of storms can deal with any weather issues as a can caster who cast control weather.

Control wind can help move the fleet along. High caster level or widen spell would be beg enough to cover the whole fleet if bunched up.

I likely hood the fleet would be spread out over 20 to 50 miles so flying mounts, intelligent flyers or an outsider with greater teleport at will can allow communications. Signal flags work over long distances as well.

Animating the ships allows easy of movement and maybe flight.

Any sort of water magic will help and druids do that well.

Charm animal to train whales and swimming dinos to pull boats.

Cauldron of Plenty feeds a ship but cost almost as much as the ship itself.

Purifying sea water is 4 times more efficient then creating the water.

Sea monsters are the realm of special order of knights that patrol under the water looking for these threats. Divination magic can help find them. Good place for PCs.

Submarines a thing?

How big is the world that it can take generations to find suitable land? Maybe they are on the ocean that is the barrier between the plain of air and water. That would a near infinite and yet there would be some land there. Also might explain why a teleport circle could not be used to evac the whole population. If then know of a place to settle, gate or teleport circle can get them there.

An 11th level wizard can bind a genie witch can simulacrum a solar witch can cast a 9th level cleric and cast wish 1/day with no material component. That means an 11th cleric can get fleet to where ever it wants to go. A PC could do this so make sure you have a reason for him not to. Also a reason that no NPC has done it.


Portable hole works but takes time to access (also secure) but you can get a minion to carry it for you.

Animate dead, craft construct, or dominate monster combined with a heavy load belt and mule back cords works.

Animate a wagon and give is slotless versions of those items for about 31k. I can fly and carry 43 tons on a heavy load and 14 for a light load. Also hard to break into a animated wagon.


So what your saying is that every one should play a summoner?

As a gm I do not really care how powerful my PCs as long as they are all equal. This is why I ban the summoner. It is to easy for them to overshadow that the rest of the party. I know that wizards can be just as bad but is easier to play them in way that works with the team instead of being the team. Buffers are amazing but work best with a well built martial.


1st level two weapon halfling rogue against CR 1 2 3 and 4 foes. Feel free to change stats around if str would only be used for prereqs.

Is PA every good for this guy? (who is not very good in the first place)


Sky swim, air breathing, and freedom of movement for the win.

That would be funny and awful


bump


I was trying to do it a way that would leave building intact.

Like if there is a way to add 1 electric damage each round to the spell and just use a strong wind.

Even so great way to destroy a town.

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