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Mathius's page

1,708 posts (1,801 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 aliases.


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I think the man thing that needs to change is putting any obvious threats right after the title of the room.

5 Skeletons
What else may be here if the PCs did X.
Notes about the room that easy to notice.

If a monster uses a template or has been advanced or otherwise changed I would like a full stat block.

The worst case of this was a young half fiendish hill giant armed with broken great sword.

Be a half orc and use hand of the apprentice with a great axe.

Timeframe: If you are immortal then you have all the time you could want.

You can you any resource from anywhere as long as taking it generally go unnoticed. You do not want to attract to much attention to your world because other may come and try break it if you do. That is a good reason to limit bound creatures.

You start with the standard WBL but assume that wealth generation based on selling thing will not work. Fabricate traps and such will can get you needed resources.

I bet asteroid gathering would actually be faster then building up enough sims to use wall of stone enough to build the world. More elemental diversity to. Wall of stone can used to fuse them all together.

Demiplane is a good source of organics. You will need alot them to start up the biosphere. I was think of building several million genies and using poly any object to age the surface and create organics but that runs into the dispel problem.

The plane has to be a finite distance from you.

Triangulate how far it is from you.

Teleport close by.

Set down as the direction of the plane.

Fall into plane.

I am allowing rule exploits because if we play RAI I doubt that it can be done. It will require millions of bound outsiders or sno cones to build on this scale. If it can be done with out abusing those two spells then you win the internet.

My disc has volume of 15 B cubic KM.

A cubic KM of rock weighs 2.7 x 10 to 12th. Total weight is roughly 4 x 10 to 22nd KG. or roughly 9 x 10 to 22nd pounds.

To lift that I need a colossal quadruped wearing a heavy lift belt that has str of 328.

An animated object has base 46 so I need to add +2 str 141 times. That means that I can build one with the need str for 765,000 GP. It even has the CP to give me the need flight and speed.

Just had better idea for gravity. If I make disk and move it at speed of 200 that will just over 1G. If a construct can lift the disk, can fly, and has a speed of 50 he can quad move every turn to do that.

The disk will be 9800 Km across. It probable needs to be 200 Km thick.

Since we are going strict RAW, the astral does works like a 3D plane. For it to act otherwise would require a rule. Your 4D work leads to a game that is simply to complicated. Nothing published makes any reference to it. If it did exist your way it would have to be mentioned and a rules set written for dealing with it.

Well air and water combined with create food and water traps will sustain them. Heat is a major issue. Access to demi planes would work as well.

I wonder how many fire elementals are needed to heat the world.

I think an ecosystem would be difficult.

I am working on the math to see if a stone ring with an internal area of Mercury would break up. If it can then we can spin it for gravity.

I was thinking more along the lines of making a magic item of purify food and drink at will. That means you need at least a 3rd level caster though.

Let's say that you a board wizard that thinks he can do better then the Gods. You decide to build your own world and shape it as you see fit. How would you go about this?

Requirements for this exercise
1. Built in the prime.
2. Built in deep space.
3. Must have a land area equal to mercury.
4. Must sustain at least 500 million humanoids.
5. Must have gravity.
6. Must have ecosystem.
7. Rules exploits work.
8. Wish can not go into dangerous territory.
9. You are a 20th level arcane caster with no mythic ability.
10. Wall spells can be cast in any orientation if they at absolute rest.
11. Spell can anchor to an orbit.
12. An object that generates 1/100th of a G can anchor a spell like a world.

Mercury=74,800,000 Km squared surface area.
I know there are those who like physics and can do the math on stuff.

It has been suggested by some folks that a way to unlimited would be to butcher an animal then restore its corpse and repeat.

Does the butchering process leave enough of the animal to even be called a corpse?

If this works a single cow can provide meat for 3 to 5 hundred people forever with a singe casting and some purification cantrips.

If skin can be harvested each time that is free leather.

The title would make you think that DiceBagChick did indeed want to do what Rynjin thought. She later came on and clarified that she wanted advice on how to tone down an OP wish and was going to work with the PC to do so. She received several good ideas on how to do that.

She was also attacked to the point of leaving her own thread. I do not want to see folks driven away the boards and possible the hobby by those who feel a need to be hostile over the internet. In the future try and read the thread before responding with negativity.

To Rynjin's credit he realized his mistake and apologized.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

If I had story already planned I can see how this wish could derail the game. 3 permanicies or 1/day that cancels(or maintains) the one before adds some but not to much to the power level of the PC. They are easy.

This ability is available to those who can cast planar binding anyway since it can be done with genies. I would say granting it as written at 13th to 15th level would not unbalance things to much anyway.

If I got 3 I would buy some of the more powerful buffs on scrolls and get them far earlier then normal. Powerful but not game breaking.

Basically you need to read chapter 2. It starts on page 76.

The GP to man hours is not in the book. I used the skilled an unskilled work numbers on page 78 to figure that out.

You could easily get lucky on your rolls and go for longer. Remember that you do not fail on a 1. See if you can get +5 to perform ring for 2500 GP. That follows the formula. Do not forget heroism either.

Very true, but the pic he furnished is very small so I went with much less in the way of rooms. I will go a figure out your much expensive option.

It is going to be much hard to play the lyre for long enough to do that.

Bracers of the Glib Entertainer and +5 to perform but cost 7900. You also get glibness once a day.

A standard item that grants +5 would cost 2500 GP.

You could retrain 2 feats into skill focus and prodigy then back again. Not sure how much that would cost.

A lessor restoration may remove the cumulative +1.

I am going to use ultimate campaign to build what I think you want.

Bedroom: 8 goods, 7 labor (300 GP)
Kitchen: 4 goods, 3 labor (160 GP)
Alchemy Lab: 8 Goods, 1 Influence, 5 Labor, 1 Magic (390 gp)
Storefront: 5 Goods, 1 Influence, 3 Labor (190 gp)
Fortification (Augmentation) x4: 32 Goods, 28 Labor (1200 gp)

If you were to simply but this off of some one it would cost 2080 GP. It would cost half of that to spend time earning the capital.

There is a total labor of 46 at a cost of 920. The 1160 you are on the hook for any way out. Again it could be half of that if you spend time earning the capitol.

Assume that on average you have 1 skilled laborer for every 9 unskilled laborers, and that a skill labor has +6 to his profession. That means that 10 man days is 2.5 GP.

That means 3840 man days to build your tower. Any hour of playing will grant 600 days. That means you need to play for 6.5 (rounded) hours to complete the building.

If your DM will accept that all labors of this type are skilled that labor is worth about 1.5 GP/day. That would mean that your only need 90 min of playing to complete the task.

I think I am going to try this.

A casty magus feels much like a wizard and an inquisitor feels much like a cleric. The man think I would miss is the druid. Is there anything out there that is a 6 level caster that feels like a druid? Maybe a hunter granted full wild shape.

Put fabricate into a trap or staff and then you get a something for nothing. This leads to a post scarcity world eventually. There is a lot war and such to prevent that because many like the power that having stuff other need gives them. There might be period like today's industrialization but factories actually need raw materials while this does not.

See also the tippyverse.

If you do not have 9th level spells the task is nearly impossible.

First off you and everybody you involve in this plan in any minor way need to be under mindblank so that the wizard will not see it coming.

If he is on demi-plane you will want to wish yourself while timestopped and pop it while so that you do not need to deal with any of his traps or lingering spells.

Alternatively you can gate or wish him to you. I am not sure there is a way to prevent that from happening to you.

A 20th level wizard with have clones so you will have to destroy all of them at the same time as you destroy him. This will require an army of simulacrums or some such thing because he might have millions.

Trap the soul is hard to be immune and also deals with clones. Also it does not matter if he is in his real body or not. That spell will work.

A rod of absorption and spell turning will prevent.

So wish him to you, disjoin him, and trap his soul. Do this all before he gets and action.

Spellbane makes this all even more difficult. A barbarian with spell sunder as your ally can get rid of those pesky defenses.

I like the E6 but as far as I can tell the has not yet brought in all the classes or archetypes.

A big part of this would be to remove easy status removal from the game. If a PC dies then you need a big ritual to bring him back that is only available a few places in world. No more teleport or fabricate or overland flight.

Restoration does need to find a place though but a I like better as an hour long ritual.

I would also remove most 4th+ spells from bad guys as well so there would not need to be as much to counter.

It might be better to start the ban at 5th level though since wizards should be able to animate dead. That or make 4th+ level spells available as feats or rituals or both on a case by case basis.

We changed dazing metamagic to 1 round no matter the level of the spell and that works much better. Still really scary with ball lightning.

Is the heal spell really needed at the upper levels? My games end around 133 and I rarely see it used.

Would the game break if we left casters with higher level slots but they had to fill them with meta versions lower level spells?

I know that thinks like spells known and bloodlines would need to be redone. Also monster SLA at upper levels would need to be changed (or not) but I think that can be done.

I think sorcs could learn a meta version of spell to avoid the longer casting time. Also caster get heighten spell for free.

Fixing traps so they can not spam spells all day and making prereqs for magic items hard and think that we get a much better fantasy society.

Maybe some 4th and 5th level spells available as feats or rituals.

Any big problems a 14th level party would run into with only 3rd level spells?

So um wow. That sure was something. Another possibility is that the astral plane is 4D like suggested and that everything goes there becomes 4d. Normal experience does not lead to good game that way so just assume that it 3d and go from there.

Wish can duplicate spells or move you anywhere. I thought the house rule was to remove the I wish I was a god type things. Did we houserule away wish travel?

One of the major issues with small hidden villages is that people are social and exploratory. Folks will want to me others.

Kids take a lot of narrative control. It can be great fun to let them. I once did not speak for an hour and 15 min while running a kids table. This of course takes anything you have prepared and chucks it out the window.

I am bbeg and I want my lair to be difficult to penetrate.

I start with a teleport trap over the whole thing. To protect the horizontal edges I can lair walls or force and fire or even a go all out with a prismatic wall. There are many other fun walls as well if once can find a way to make them permanent.

This unfortunately leaves the top and bottom of my lair vulnerable. Mundane defense are not going to stop those pesky adventures. Earth glide lets them come up form under of down from above with ease and then the simply need to bash through a hard wall.

Would gravity sphere allow me to make horizontal walls? Short of dispelling can you get through a blazing rainbow?

The world would end looking more like Star Trek TNG.

As for finding the demi-planes. Go to the astral or ethereal plane and cast find the path.

As far as I can tell nothing will stop a find the path effect nor can commune be prevented.

Find the path with respect to the nearest inhabited demi-plane. From there use commune to figure the range and then teleport nearby. From there a standard search should turn it up.

I am not sure if you can simply change planes while on the astral or ethereal but a wish will do it.

Is there any way to flurry or at least attack more then once with the lich's paralytic touch? If so the warpriest lich is scary.

So I really like the idea of fighting the queen many times over.

My thoughts about the premise so far.

She had many many clone back up spread over the planes as well as several fall back demi-planes. She has 1 fall back position left split into several different areas.

The safe area to teleport to is over a long vertical shaft. Make the TP area at the end of long range for the queen and throw in some flying enemies. The queen can use project image to shoot safely up the shaft while hiding down a hallway.

Once the mammoth is killed she attemps to take the PCs or whatever other things are in range. Her body is down a passage way that only gaseous creatures can travel down. Since that form is slow a long passage way will grant her several rounds to get spells back into place.

If figure on using a small area so that the PC casters will be forced closer to the some melee brutes.

The whole setup can be inside a teleport trap.

Thanks, I would have sworn that moving back to your body would have been the same as getting to the gem. You do not need line of effect for that. If you do not need LOE then her returning to her body could work as change of venue.

I know that raw would let you use limited use items repeatedly with AP but NO JUST NO.

Okay, I got give it up for that idea. Having to kill the lady 5 times to keep her down with a different set of guards in each place. Also easier to prepare since I only need one complicated NPC.

Since she does not have 9th level spells the AP can quite old and she will not be able to simply cast in again.

Magic jar questions.
1. Do you need line of effect back to your body?
2. Has it been determined witch spells go to the body and witch go to the soul?
3. If the host body dies do you need line of effect to the the gem?

Other questions.
1. What prevents Abrograil from simply grabbing a different mammoth?
2. What a good ways to help prevent simply dispelling the magic jar?
3. Clever PCs will grab the gem, teleport away and break it. What should prevent this?
4. I want this to take place in several different locations, how do the PC figure out where to go next?
5. Using AP can a caster go to the astral the use plane shift (or other means) to come back to the same plane?

There is definitely DM fiat going on here. We do not really want to try and play through all of that and I know I would not have fun while they did. That is why they hand wave is there. We just want 5 exciting encounters where anything goes but is limited to just that space. I do get what you say though. In our case I do not think they will mind.

You fail to take into account that the vast majority of folks do not live in a metropolis. When doing a demographics you need to account for all the villages and towns and hamlets as well as metropolises. I stand by my 1 in a million figure.

birth control?

The problem with going small is that there are not enough high level caster to pull this off. I can not see there being more then 1 guy in a million who can cast 9th level spells. That means that a tippy city has about 10 to 100 (the stack up over time due to immortality) in it.

I just looked at the rules for magic item creation. By formula an item that can make a greater demi-plane once per day only costs 55080 GP. You need a guy with spellcraft of 22 simply take 10.

3 ranks + 4 trained +5 item +5 int +5 feats=22 I guess a 3rd level caster could pull that off. I guess anything larger then village could pull off this trick.

Okay, lets say that 99.9 percent of the world does just this and are never seen again. That .1 percent is still left as the world.

The CL requirement should be able to be skipped. Also traps should require source for the spell such as wand, staff, or charges per day type item.

Those are not very anti tippy but they would cut back on some of the crazier stuff.

That would we a fun encounter but the sale of the artifact prevents is designed to prevent exactly that. They will sell it to whomever and the whomever will destroy the clones and end the contingentiences.

One of my players had a great idea. Each of the NPCs they go up against should have a fractured soul. As long as any of the foes in the encounter survive then the soul of the major NPC will take it over in time. For this to work they minions need to stay withing X range. This means no one will flee until they are the last guy and the PCs can just kill the NPC and move on to the next one.

I do plan to stack the terrain in the the NPCs favor in major ways. The anti evil traps will be there but just as decor since the PCs are all evil. That gets far more evil (pun intended) if I can find a way to make them detect as non evil.

Those two encounter are great! One of my players will go ape about a chance to snag a pit fiend that way. He claims that he is a the god of charlatans and liars, if he walks into a room with a pit fiend by himself an and emerges victorious he will milk that forever.

They will love sorc encounter. The cleric has remover fear preped and will love a chance to use it and the magus has fiendsight. I will need to change darkness to deeper darkness since the entire party has dark vision.

For the sorc are you proposing to use NPC wealth? Think it would make sense to have her well covered with shield other. The way we have always run that spell is to split the damage equally among all who in the loop. For example if the 3 bodyguards each had it active she would take 1/4 damage and they would take like amount.

For the bodyguard, inquisitors would be fun. Great use of teamwork feats. At least 1 of the 3 should make use of the bodyguard feat.

My PC do not like it when I have caster target their water breathing with dispel magic. At one point the had 3 layers of it to prevent being dispelled. The got nervous when I got through 2 of them.

I do not need it until a week from wed. Also reskinning is good.

Thanks for the feed back.

I know that we low balling their power, the problem is this is how my PCs want to end the game and I do not want to draw it out. I am not big into high level play. We all realize that the artifact trade is a Dues ex Machina that puts a thin veneer of plausibility over the whole thing. None of us have and issue with that.

My big problem is with designing 5 NPCs and placing them in 5 interesting encounters. Out game is more about tactical combat then role playing and I would love to give them an epic 5 part combat to end it.

The 24 hour limit serves only to put them under time pressure and prevent them from resting during the climax.

Given that most any high level wizard can bind and hold several of these at the same time, how can you ever really defeat a high level wiz/sorc?

On a different note, would not many of these guys have have plans in place that make binding them a really terrible idea?

Many outsider with low HD have commune and that would mean the big ones should see the binding attempt coming. I would think that pit fiends and the like would keep track of anyone who had needed feats to bind them. Unless you take the feat after you get mind blank then they should know about you.

Also how do run a balanced game with this spell? I can see allowing for 1 bound outsider at a time but with spell you can get a dozen or more with little effort. If you bind something that can bind more for you then the size is limitless.

Can you bind an outsider already bound to someone else?

That campaign sounds like a great time for those who love the highest levels of play. Personally we as group do not, that is why a 13th level party will get to topple house Thrune and start a civil war. I realize that the cannon Cheliax would not be this easy to topple but who cares.

What I really need to do is build the last 5 encounters in a way that will be memorable and fun. The issue I have is creating mid to high level NPCs is difficult and making a sting on encounter that will be fun. I need to avoid going so whole hog that the PCs can not win while still making it take 3 or 4 rounds to finis the encounter.

So what do them thar stars mean any way?


Can you take look at conclusion to my game and give me some ideas?

Sadly we play in 2 hour blocks once week. We can get in about 1 encounter per session and the auction will take one as well. Based on my original plan that would be 6 sessions. That works for our end as we have more then a year into the game.

I like the idea of having many powers to influence and that giving them some sort of benefit in the final encounters.

I was thinking the throne and 4 others since 5 encounters in 1 day can be tough. I was thinking APL+1, APL+1, APL+2, APL+2, and APL+4. They can take them in any order but I want and incentive to take the APL+4 last or near the end. I also want it to be that if even 1 makes it through the day they disturbance will be minor.

For each encounter I want at least 3 bad guys since 1 vs many is seldom satisfying. Since my PCs will want to buff up and run through all 5 in as few rounds as possible I was think having every other NPC know when one is attacked and start casting their own buffs. This means that later encounters will be harder since the bad (well non PC bad) guys will have longer to prepare.

I just wish it was not quite so much work to plan 5 encounters with a CR in the mid teens. If any one wants to take stab at it feel free.

My PCs realize that they have no chance of claiming the Cheliaxian throne. Instead they simply want to topple the powers that be and start a new civil war, preferable a long bloody one. One of the PCs worships the NE horsemen of war.
At this point the PCs are number 2 power in the shackles and they have worked hard to gain Tessa's and the Hurricane King's support.

I realize that if I stick to canon the PCs really could not make topple the country but this is the desired end of the game and we do not wish the game to go that much longer so we are going to do it anyway. They have acquired a major artifact and this a plausible enough reason other power players in Galorian would create the 24 hour period of vulnerability to the leadership of House Thrune.

House Bruhne and Hell itself are good choices for those interested in doing just that with the above outcomes coming to pass. Maybe Geb could take an interest. I do not know who else might have the power do what the PCs want. Any interest god could send a herald.

I do need to find a reason for House Thrune to not know about the loss of the artifact. Maybe hell does not tell them so that they can create a theocracy or maybe the NE horsemen covers for it to help incite a major civil war. The party gnome claims to be a god of charlatans and liars, maybe a really one helps him to cover up the theft.

So we have been playing Skull and Shackles and are now about to engage in book 6. Having looked in book 6 and discussed it with my players we have come to the conclusion that we do not want to play it. That leaves me needing to write the end of the game.

All of my PCs really really hate Cheliax and would love to see the country burn. I modified the end of book 5 to include a an artifact of significant power. The PCs had the idea to auction it off for a shot at House Thrune.

So my outline for the conclusion is
Auction of a major artifact to the high power folks of the world in exchange for 1 day of vulnerability to the most important NPCs of house Thrune. Following that will a 24 hour period where the PCs must travel to the lair 5 NPCs and slay them and their guards.

My PCs are a level 13 party of 5 that is well optimized to work as a team.
I was thing of having the scion be a level 15 devil cleric in demiplane of hell. Each of the other 4 will have a way to get to that plane and back him up and a way to bring him back to life should he fall. This will ensure the PCs take his heirs and advisers first and end with the ruler of Cheliax itself.

I need help designing the auction and the encounters that will be the end of my game. My target for the ruler is a CR 17 (for 5 PCs) and for the other four to be between 14 and 15 each.

My PCs are evil to the point where the forces of good would need to be highly motivated to work with them. The fall of Cheliax may be enough be they would not want my PCs to replace house Thrun.

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