|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
If you can get a minotaur double crossbow (offer to pay 1000 GP for MW one) I would combine that with vital strike and Improved vital strike.
Once you have crossbow mastery it will either be a free or move action to reload but since you are vital striking you only need a standard to fire.
Enlarge person + gravity bow takes you damage to 6d8 and with improved vital strike you get up to 18d8. Also remember that any damage add including deadly aim get doubled due to two bolts.
I have done this before but it was about teleport not magic in general. It is still hard for me to stretch my brain to the point that where casters leave a world like Galorian. Looking at how others see helps me to enjoy the setting I run more. I do appreciate it.
As to why they would hire casters if they could. Though a caster costs more then 1000 laborers to hire he also gets more done. This may not be the case with a levitate crane but spells levels get higher it easy to surpass thousands of mad days with 1 spell.
Weather a wizard wants to or not is different.
Missed continual flame on the adept list. That one will change the face of a city. They also are quite good at health care.
I can see that both caster with 6th+ level spells work for or run the government. If they do why would they not want to improve the country as well as defend it. Maybe to world is such a dangerous place that government spending on wizards has to be military only. Could be a world wide ban on industrial magic to avoid an arms race.
Also a good point about TPers with regular route just waiting for an ambush but since the destination is likely to be a city it will be hard to take the landing sight. It is much easier to build more ships then to replace 9th level wizard.
I can see plenty of uses for quickened truestrike. However, a dedicated caster should not need to make many attack rolls on each day. I can not see it being used more 3 times in one day.
For a melee person it is still situational since they will usually hit any way.
For the number of times per day that it will be useful I do not think it is worth spell perfection for any one. Once I can take spell perfection I want to choose a spell I will use in almost every encounter. I can not see build that would benefit from this. May some sort of bad touch 1/2 caster but I think that it would be easier to just find a way to be decent at touch attacks and apply the feat to the touch spell itself.
Not sure on nondetection but mind blank would stop it.
A couple of easy house rules to help with teleport if you need them and then on to the next issue.
Limit distance to 10 miles per level instead of 100
Problem: Permanent gust of wind
Problem: Permanent wall of fire
Solution: The gods (good and evil) oppose an industrial revolution. They all fear it would give one side to much power so they stay away from it like nuclear weapons. Over time this has led many folks to distrust industry since it leads to a god smashing.
I do not really like either one but two allow some crazy man (or PC) to give it try while the world reacts in horror.
Solution: Overuse of magic depletes the world supply and casters as whole do not like that. When used on personal scale they have no real impact but if they start appearing in quantities that lead to industrialization they create a local loss of caster level that can spread. Eventually the magic supply runs out and the industrialization suddenly stops and the whole society goes down the tubes.
I like this one but I am not sure many steam plants would actually be needed to allow industrialization and how much more this would be then those used just for personal use.
I think animal ally works just fine for getting a pet if you really can not make your concept with a class that gets and AC.
I would allow other equivalent ACs for no charge but if they want a beast that is clearly better then I would charge one more feat.
ACs can add alot of power to the game if the party is willing to add gear to it. In my game ACs usually get a half share of treasure. I do not add any to the party's wealth but that split allows high level ACs to still be a quite useful.
ACs are most useful at 1st level. By waiting a few levels most of the issues that are caused disappear. I might let leadership work, it is a good idea and makes one wait to 7 to get a pet. I would make your cohort level your druid level but boon companion can fix that right up.
You are right about the adepts and their spell list.
Based on demographics of spellcasting services and the blurb about levels I posted in the OP every country should have at least a double or triple handful of teleporters available. I find it hard believe that in 200 or so in the inner sea region that not one would be interested in trade.
If the economy can not handle teleport trade then how can we justify enough shipping to support the Shackles?
I am not trying say that they have the economy of today, if they did then 5th level experts would build boots of teleport to support trade.
Great way to think of this issue.
Lets work on that problem.
Lets start with the 5th level spells. Those are regionally and can have a huge impact.
The part I have problem with is a wizard not being willing to be a crane. I realize that he can only do it a few min a day but if a wizard can make a full salary in with 4 spells and 10 min a day of work then why would he not do that.
A 3rd level wizard could choose to go on adventure and make 3000 GP in a few very scary days or you could stay in town work 20 min a day a crane and make 30 GP a day. That is casting spells at 1/10 value but still a huge amount of money. I realize that 30 GP is a lot in a day and that the downtime rules would require a +290 on your skill to get it but it could easily represent him working a small business and bringing 3 GP a day and only working 20 min every 2 weeks.
Spellcasters should never really need to work because their spells properly employed would do the work of hundreds of laborers.
The main issue I have is the setting does not really reflect common magic.
Even the adept list means no difficulty with language ever and hot an cold environments do not hinder folks nearly as much.
I would love see list of the 100 most useful things magic would do for a nation and then see most nations using 80 to 90 of them. Nations that don't need a good reason for not having been wiped out or relegated to backwater hicksville.
The vast majority of humanity are “standard,” ranging in level from 1st to 5th—most with NPC classes like commoner, expert, or warrior (it’s uncommon for a character with only NPC class levels to be above 5th level). A significant number of a nation’s movers and shakers, along with other leaders, heroes, and notables, are “exceptional,” ranging in level from 6th to 10th. “Powerful” characters, ranging in level from 11th to 15th, are quite rare—typically only a handful of such powerful characters should exist in most nations, and they should be leaders or specially trained troops most often designed to serve as allies or enemies for use in an adventure. Finally, “legendary” characters of 16th or higher level should be exceptionally rare, and when they appear should only do so as part of a specific campaign—all legendary characters should be supported with significant histories and flavor.
What does in mean to a kingdom to have even one caster who can use 6 to 8th level spells?
Movers and shakers are in the 6 to 10 range and the availability of spell casting services would mean that spellcaster in that range are available regionally at the very least. Based on settlements you would have casters capable of casting 4th level spells in every small town.
I think most world changing thing would be having a 1st level spells and cantrips available even in Thorps. That would mean that 1 in every 10 to 20 people is a capable of casting of some sort. About 1 in 50 or so can cast 2nd level spells based on hamlets.
Many high level spells only need a few casters willing to use them often to change the world. Teleport, lessor planar binding, wall of stone, permanency + blood money + (wall fire or gust of wind, shrink item), fabricate, scrying, are all available on regional level.
At a local level it is easy to find levitate, invisability, air bubble, create food and water, create water, purify food and water, fly, unseen servant. Levitate plus a high str and ant haul would be a crane. That alone would change the world and that combo should be available in every village. Masterwork transformation would allow bulk high quality tools.
On top of all of this are magic items. Even taking traps out of it then easily change the world.
Would switching to the demographics in the spellcasting instead of settlements section make magic rare enough that Galorian could exist?
If not how rare does a spellcaster need to be to have society that looks kinda like the one we think of in fantasy?
I think the "World's Strongest Man" competitions make more sense then weightlifting does for determining the pinnacle of human str. Those guys have to do all kinds of different things with their str.
Also remember that PF does not have fatigue rules. As such, if I can lift then I can rep it all day long. We all know that is not true but who wants that level of detail in a game.
Just want to say that PF ship to ship combat is awful boring. We have done it three times at this point (second booK) and from no on we will just skip to boarding. They sight the ship miles off then we make two or there rolls to see if they can board or not and how long it takes.
Not that a few fireballs can easily kill then entire crew, A cargo ships best defense is a 5th level mage and several scrolls. PCs are likely fine but the crew is all dead.
I do not think so.
I forgot a use. Bomber. An accuser devil can drop 50 objects on city all day long. I 49 pound barrel of oil and a lit torch. For stone works catapult ammo works just fine.
I think the implications for low HD creatures with greater teleport at will are much worse then just kill the king.
An outsider can teleport 14400 times and do not need to eat or sleep. Just 1 outsider can could handle a letter service for small kingdom. There would be no reason for reports to take weeks or months get back to the capital.
Emergency supplies show up where they are need at the rate of 50 pounds every 12 seconds. Shrink item, polymorph any object, and extradimensional containers multiply this hugely.
From a mile up you can see a long way away. An outsider popping about sky of a kingdom can watch every caravan and ship moving though your territory. The only place a large body men could hide would be in a forest and that tends to mess up army logistics.
Speaking of armies an outsider could replace how many wagons? Assuming the help of a few loaders to hand of crates and imp can move 1 wagon load in 16 min. Also in can go all the way back to HQ not just back to army itself. Lets say that a person needs 10 pounds of consumables a day (food, water, boots, whatever). That means that 1 TPer can support 36000 troops. Even at half efficiency that is still a lot.
During a battle the TP can easily bring in reports from all commanders and info lag would be in min instead of hours. Supplies of arrows can moved to front when archers need them. Alchemical substances brought in when needed.
A distant mine can send back its ore in 50 pound chuncks or 180 tons a day. Money can moved quite securely since there is no middle ground to go though.
Any one got others?
I saw that to and just made it a standard flat roof.
There is a gnome who acts like a Ferengi and claims to be a fallen god to his cultists. Also trying to found Amway.
Animate dead is not dispellable but the crows nest might fall at some point.
The boat is not actually any faster with the croc but it can strike the sails and go upwind faster then most. The also use the croc to grapple other ships. They still need to fight a boarding action but it does tend to stop ships from fleeing.
They have not paid to have the ship refitted to ride the croc so no overland yet. I said it would cost 20k since the ship really not meant to be lifted that way. They are waiting for fabricate on that one.
My PC are really really enjoying the sandbox this AP allows. Once they decided to take the rock they bought 20 soldiers and a cat just because they thought it might need to be beefed up.
They also bought an immovable rod and put 1000 feet over the keep, built a crows nest on it and dropped a rope ladder down from it. That was one of the main reasons I needed rules for how hard a ship is sight when you a 100 mile horizon.
They really go whole hog with things and nothing is ever enough. They always try and crank it to 11. An example is there fast dire croc zombie. Add in muleback cords and heavy lift belts and the darn thing can carry an entire ship. The at least do not try and use it to win combat encounter but only to for its narrative power.
Thanks for the advice. I ran her Wednessday night and she got trashed.
She got all her summons in and the lantern archons did what what they were supposed to do.
She got glitterdusted, dispelled (freedom of movement), and blinded in the first round. After that the bard use wand of true strike to fire the grapple monk at her with a catapult. Once she was grappled it was over.
She did manage to poison herself and die. They tried real hard to keep her alive and the thresher did get away.
I am glad I beefed her up but this version did not fare much better then the weak one in the book.
All in all it was fun.
I suspect she will be glitterdusted early on in the fight. The witch has some sort of darkness spell the also allows her to hex farther then 30 feet.
You combo plus a decent AC will make up her defenses. I suspect that they will spend a great deal of time dealing with the lantern archons and the 30 pirates in the boats. Once they do that she well grow enraged and start lightning bolting them.
Eventually the cleric or witch will dispel her fly and their zombie dire croc will attack. I know party has at least 4 dispels prepared and once they can see her they try that. If she see the croc I will have her over land but she is on the ground the martials can close and that gets ugly.
I could go PC wealth for her. That would beef her up a bit but do little for he attacks. Might be worth it. The party would like the goggles so that is nice. Could make some it tattoos so the PC can not take it so easily.
I also can see harpoons or summoned flying creatures showing up. Or the monk climbing and jumping or something. The players are good at that stuff. If I do not make near TPKs we all get board.
Thanks for helping me think through it.
Since she is a tattoo summoner she loses the bloodline feat. For the other two feats I was thinking ferocious summons and iron will.
The only bloodline ability she gets it the 3rd level one. Unfortunately she loses out on the DR. Her being a tattooed sorc is important to the storyline so can not give that up. Wings would be quite nice though.
He gear is only worth about 10k so the goggles are bit out of reach. I was just going to have her leave the cloud once she was done summoning.
Blaster are more fun but only if you can blast back and this party can not. It is big weakness on their part but I do not want to ruin the fun.
My party has is not good at ranged combat and I do not want to just blow them up. I would be easy to build a sorc that could trash their boats and leave but that would be no fun.
I thought about elementals but she gets 1d3+1 lantern archons to 1 medium elemental. To bad the smalls can not whirlwind the pcs.
I will definitely be targeting the non martial characters first. Giving that the magus and monk both get two stats to AC their will be hard to hit with a +3.
I think I am going have the lantern archons base the squishes in an attempt to prevent casting. The sorc mistakenly thinks that martials will not be able to hurt the. She should keep them at range but if I do that then PC have no good means of attacking them. Either that or reduce their range to 10 feet.
I think I will take the aquatic bloodline. Since this grants a swim speed I can remove touch of the sea from her spell list.
I get slipstream from the bloodline but none of my 3rd level spells appear on the list. That means 5 favored class bonuses go into spells. For my last forth level spell I want freedom of movement.
I can gain one more spell with favored class bonuses. She is using 6 of 8 1st level spells, 7 of 7 second level spells (2x resist energy) and all 5 4th level spells. After fly that leaves her 2 1st and 6 3rd levels spells to cast during combat.
Stinking cloud and vamp touch should be fine for in combat casting but maybe lightning bolt should be added just for damage reasons. That does break invis though. A few more buffs would not hurt either since the combat is unlikely to go 6 rounds.
She has a ships crew but nothing beyond 2nd level warriors. She is bring 30 with her and leaving 70 on the ship.
The PCs are 6th level party made up of a witch, magus, cleric, bard, and monk. They pretty well optimized. The also command small garrison and 2 ships crews. Among the crews are 3 ghouls, many cultists and enough mercs to fire all 7 ballistas on the ships. Round that out with enough sailors to make sure the ships can function. About 60 all together.
Good Spells to have
Not dead set on half orc but the ifrit's does not seam to offer all that much. I would have to take a feat to see through smoke and I can nod find a low level spell like fog cloud that uses smoke.
I could use their power to bring in even more small fire elementals but lantern archons will do much better with two attacks a round and a nice DR.
I am considering halfling but the loss of darkvision could hurt at night in a storm.
I can not seam to find an online version of her sheet.
To start with I am making her a half orc. I will sub in sacred tatoo. I am also going to replace Skill focus sailor for augments summons, Martial weapon proficiency for superior summons, and combat casting for Ferocious summons. The loss of feat will hit lightning reflexes. May take iron will instead of Ferocious summons.
Half orc is not needed but I defiantly need a decent will save due to the party witch.
S 8 D 14 C 12 I 10 W 14 Ch 14 seams like a reasonable stat array since her spell save dc will make little difference. We get up to an 20 with item, level and racial mods and that is enough for bonus spell purposes. Might even throw 2 more points into con since an 18 gets you a bonus 4th level spell and HP is nice to have.
I know that I could have posted this in the SnS forum but what I need the most help with is the restating of a powerful sorcerer and not story ideas. Below be spoilers for the Raiders of the Fever Sea.
The PCs have recently come into possession of a tower on a small island. The have gained the enmity of faction that is sending a ship to take revenge on them. The ship will end up being quite a prize for them but is actually faster then anything the PCs have right now. As such I am removing the ship from the actual battle so that the PCs need to chase it down.
The ship approach to island will be covered by night and a light rain. It will drop two ships boats when it is about 5 miles from the island. At its closest the ship can be detected with a DC 39 perception check. There is on member of the group that will make that check if he is on lookout duty at that time and equipped with a scope.
The boats will run dark on their two hour approach to the island. That means that sighting them will not be possible until they are quite close by. Since the many of the PCs lookouts have dark vision I know the boats will be spotted in time for an alarm to be raised. With a DC 25 perception check the crews can hear something sooner.
The boats will be attacking the PCs two ships with the intention of burning them. All of the above is will be mostly background.
The main attraction is Inkskin Locke, a 9th level tattooed sorcerer who is gunning for high value targets while the boat crews deal with the ships crews. The PCs will most likely be spread out between the tower and their two ships. They may even be asleep when the assault begins. However they tend to be very good at making advantage for themselves.
I was thinking of having Inkskin be a dedicated summoner. Before the boats arrive she buffs up and flies invisible ahead. Once there she casts obscuring mist summons up a host of lantern archons to hunt down the PCs. She also has viper familiar that she will use to deliver vampiric touches for her.
Need to flesh out a sheet that gives her the best buffs and feats to reflect these tactics. I also need a way to break down doors and preferable one that allows her to remain invisible. Also a way to see through her own fog would be nice.
It is not a bad rule for many groups. If I was player I would appreciate such a rule. It is also good fall back for when I do not have everything figured out. It works perfectly for a average ship with an average look out.
The reason I want a more complicated rule is twofold. My PCs will want to combine flight (far horizon) with superhero levels of perception to be forewarned. They will also want to know under what circumstances they can sneak up on another ship with a ship.
I know they will want to fly up a few miles and from there they will have horizon of 150 miles. They will want to know how many ships they can spot with in a 300 miles radius. With my rules I know they will need a perception of 280 to spot ships that far away.
I would not be at all surprised if they find a way to get their skill into the 80s witch would allow them to see a ship 50 miles away. At least now I can prepare for the implications of that.
Also thank you for the easy rule that will be used my most every NPC. An average look out with decent magical support can make +20. With this rule I need not worry about how.
I realize that a ship is easy to see but at 12 to 14 miles it is really really small so also easy to overlook.
I think I like 15 +1/quarter mile to spot thing that are not a hiding at distance. Lets apply the stealth size stealth's size penalties.
I am going to use the weather modifiers from fire as she bears instead of the generic ones in perception. -10 for light rain and -20 for heavy.
Average joe spots a ship on a clear day at 5.25 miles and 10.5 miles with a telescope.
weather subtracts 2.5 and 5 miles respectively. That means that and average joe misses a ship in a until it is on top of them but a trained look out can still spot ship at the horizon (10.5 m) with a telescope in light rain. A world class lookout can see to the horizon even in a storm.
On clear day a world class lookout (or PC with magic) can spot a 20.5 miles on a clear day with a telescope.
Every +4 adds miles witch doubles with a scope. I know that many a party has perception guru that will go will be able to see even farther given a distant horizon (flight). I think this will work.
Just need to come up with a an extra bonus for villages and an even bigger one for islands.
That is the ultimate limit on how far you spot things.
Now what should the DC be for objects of different sizes. Can you spot a person a mile away in a giant open field?
Need to come up with a set of rules for those DCs.
I am going to need to do a bit better then this because my PCs have ship and they will want to know how far off they can spot other ships. I also need to know how far off other ships can spot them.
I need some rules for spotting a ship/villages/islands on the horizon.
With flying available to the party the horizon can be quite a ways off. At a 1000 feet they can see for almost 25 miles.
Fire as she bears recommends a DC of 10+1/500 feet. At that rate spotting things more then a few miles away is not reasonable.
I can accept that a normal lookout can take 20 on his perception check.
An expert lookout is a 6th level human with skill focus, alertness, uncanny alertness and the eyes of the wild trait. Lets say I missed 3 along the way and give him +20. This would represent the best person can do before we go superpowers. What should a 40 on perception give us.
Average joe is on lookout duty and he simply gets a 20. What should he see.
I think the DC should scale at Z+1/x and weather should effect x as well as adding to Z.
None of this assumes that anything is trying to hide and hopefully we come up with decent set rules to cover this. Maybe they already exist.
I think you have you used all of the NPCs to good effect. Keep doing that. If a NPC is a problem, kill it.
Have a talk with the PCs and tell them you want to limit them to 1 NPC that joins in combat with them. The rest may follow along but they do other things at the adventure site.
My pc rarely have to worry about camping since they tend to have 40-50 low level NPCs that follow them around. They put a few equal level NPCs in charge of guard duty.
They send a NPCs out on patrol or have them raid the front entrance while the come in from the side.
All of this adds alot to the PCs narrative power but does not help much in combat. Allows lower level PCs to do bigger things in the world.
I would only allow with a non lethal weapon.
I one punch KO in boxing could just be enough non-lethal run him out of HP.
High level PCs are different.
FA with SA and n -4 to hit can do a lot non lethal real fast.
The RMA ability makes little sense as KO.
I am the GM but I very much try to stay within the rules for what I throw at my PCs or to at least know when I am voilating them
Thanks. So rime spell is good to go. I think great fort will be a keep.
Rime spell and magical lineage allow rimes frozen arcs from 2nd level slots.
We sure that wiz is non key since it does get +4 int?
I have never quite understood how levels to monsters is supposed to work with the CR system.
What are the stat mods for a Sahuagin
A 5th level wizard with a npc wealth would be a CR 6 correct?
Greater fortitude does not have to be one of his feats?
Spell spec plus gifted adapt (extra traits) would allow him to cast at 8th level.
I plan to use burning arc since I do not want to kill off the ship crew and I get more castings.
If I make him and admixture wizard can I use rime spell with burning arc out his second level slots?
Admixture will allow me to make them all ice and will add +5 to the damage. Rime allows entangling. If I do not have great fort then I can take empower and throw that from a third level slot.
He only has 1 3rd level slot left after sky swim (shark mount) and haste, is empower spell his best feat to take or is there something better to take.
If anyone wants to build a wizard around this framework feel free. I plan to post it soon enough anyway.
Thanks for putting up with my brainstorming
I do not plan to make the rolls but I do not just say things happen without allocating resources to it. Also pretty sure my PCs are going to be doing this regularly once it is done to them. I tend to rule of cool for my PC more often then myself.
Smashing the bottom would be the best but it would be overkill at 5th level My excuse it that they want to sell the boat.
Yes it is SnS. I want to build a nice hatred of these guys so they will go into that place later on.
Also I always need to plan a near TPK for my PCs since they always do something crazy to tip the odds. Besides they have a fast dire zombie croc. I know that will even things up some. It will not help on deck but anything in water is lunch.
Yeah that works. I like that image.
I think I will have to work a reference or two to the Ginuy force into the fight.
Not sure that a big jump is all that cheesy though. I just to do not want the PCs to be able to knock them all off the side of the ship.
That is not such a good idea.
Sky swim on the casters shark. That is a good idea. Makes it much more difficult for the croc to just munch him and looks really cool.
Acrobatics is dex and mass animal buff is to high a level.
I considered a bard but I do not think it is needed for this.
So now I have flying caster who has used 2 3rd level spells. Since can get closer now I think I will give him spell spec scorching ray. He should have 4 shots if we make him and evoker. Still have 3rd level evocation slot open. I could go rime spell and make ice ray that entangles. Ice due to admixture wizard.
Good to know. We are going to just change the rules so the the jump spell will add to either check and so will any speed bonuses. It will only be a factor if the ride total less then the acro total before bonuses.
A night stealth attack is good idea most times but my paranoid PCs would spot it a mile away and daylight allows longer range for the bow users and the wizard.
Drilling through the hull is not a bad idea. Warp wood needs to high caster level to work but tools take a bit. I think 8 rounds is a good amount to time to take. If the PCs do not want their boat sunk they will need to finish the others before then or deal with them during the grand melee.
I intend to have 4 four armed mutants jump off the backs of their shark mounts along with a their barbarian leader. Along with then 2d3 regular sahuagin will attach grapples and begin climbing the next round. 10 Malenta on shark back will fire crossbows at the ship.
I am subbing great fortitude for power attack on the barbarian and having letting him two hand a weapon. Changing weapon focus to INA bite. Need better rage powers.
Also I need a caster wizard to supply the barb and four armed mutants with haste and to use the want of jump to help them get on board the ship. He will stay out with the xbow users but will only get in 1 spell at most since the PCs will sic their zombie dire croc on him. Other then fire ball what should I have him cast at the PCs or the ship?
I figure the PC cleric will ride the dire croc and will remove 1 bow user a turn after the wizard. That is where they will focus fire. It will be fun but not all that effective. The howda grants the PC nice cover and they have no hope of hitting the croc.
If it is a long range spell that he casts I could let range help him get in a few more licks or even cast once and then just flee.
This more of brainstorm. I do not worry overmuch about PCs being overwhelmed since they have ballista for the the ships to fire and ghouls among the crew to help them fight.
I am thinking of having sharks jump out the water and then the sahuagin jump off their backs on to they PC's ships.
A shark has a shark has +13 to jump due to speed and hasted sahuagin has another +13. A 5th level wand of jump can +20 to both. That makes our total +66. The other 14 should be do able 2 die rolls.
To my fellow DMs what would the sahuagin be able to do after their jump. Would a ride check be need for any of this? Basically I see this a nice surprise round but what do they get if there is no surprise round?