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1,170 posts (1,263 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 aliases.


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You can replace the crossbow with a cantrip if you take some effort to make it better.

I have seen ray of frost hit 1d3+10 but barring that a 1d3+3 that targets touch will often be better then your 1d8 crossbow.

If you are an elf take point blank, precise and rapid shot as you feats for 1-5. Retrain them at around 8.

Knock is a great scroll to have but should not show up on a list of spells.

Even at 5th level your 1st level spells will be very useful.

For 3rd level spells I would go with haste over fireball if you have 2 or more martials in the group.

Familiars can scout quite well.


The brain would allow it? I thought it was still mindless but that could work.


Can a headband give you a an int score?


Can you show me a rule the says -- is different the 0 in a stat? I could not find it.


For reference the cube of ice is now only 60 feet to a side.

Wow water is really heavy. This much water is barely enough to make a pond.


Found something even stronger.

1. Construct a colossal centaur (allows better slots): ? GP
2. Animate object: 60K GP 46 str
3. Increase HD by 8: 24k GP 48 str
4. Increase str +2: 5K GP 50 str
5. Belt of str +6: 36K GP 56 str
6. Muleback cords: 1k GP 64 str
7. Cast anthaul: free 3x carrying capacity
8. Headband of int +6: 36K Can use command work items
9. Helm of teleport: 73.5 K 3 teleports a day.

You will have to ride in a portable hole or have some way of following.

240K GP and it can carry 6300 tons or slightly over 100 million gallons.

Edit: I totally got pounds to gallons wrong somehow. 6300 tons times 2000/8 = 1.6 million gallons. Not sure how I got 33.5 million gallons.

The decanters are better in every way.


Ability Score Modification: Using this modification, a crafter can permanently increase one of the construct’s ability scores by +2 per modification. He cannot increase any abilities with a score of 0. The cost for permanently increasing an ability score is 5,000 gp.

On another note can a construct wear a headband of intellect to get above O int?


I think you are right about the DR effect.

A warrior who can +9 to damage can simply use as dagger. That even has the benefit of putting you next to the vamp to finish it off on you next turn. Also bolt does not break when doing this.


A magical academy costs 5630 GP to buy (half if you generate your own capital) and grants a +101 total to business. That means that it will pay for itself in 558 days. After that is is worth 10 GP a day to the owner. That is enough income to provide 3 people with a wealthy lifestyle. A business is will only help the PCs if they will be in one spot for many years at a time but that makes sense.

This school can support 10 students in its dorms. Assuming the business turns a 20 percent profit that means their dues are 150 GP a month. Business in the downtime system does not have expenses but if you assume the are there then this works pretty well. Assuming a dues of 150 GP then prof who teaches 10 students leaves nothing for the higher ups. If we double that to 20 students then we are back to 300 GP a month for the owners.

How many profs do you think a war college that provides that type of benefit has? What ever your number is double it. That is the number of academies the PC needs to own run his own college.

For me I would allow 10 such buildings to be a college and at that point he will be able to write up a set of benefits his school grants at different fame points. I would also grant him 5 fame per academy built. That way he is at 50 once he the college is done.

The shipping business is best represented through investments.


heartstake

This can make a vamp helpless for a round if it fails a fort save. After that a full round action can kill it. You can even melee with a bolt so there you go.

Gas proof room plus a few bottles of sunlight works quite well. Might be hard to trick him in to it.

As a vamp I want the spell getaway since I can activate that while a gas.


Chemlak: Thank you for working this out as well as you have.

I know the answer has changed a few times since you have posted. Can you write up the whole thing in concise language. I would love to help you but I got lost in the math somewhere along the way.

my barbarian that can maximize vital strike likes expressions of dice with a large range to the top number is bigger. Also fistfuls of dice are fun.


Okay, just did some calculations. That block would support 600 Americans for 1 year. If the city uses water like the UK it is 2300 and if it is more similar to world average then is 7000 souls to a block.

Guess 1 block a month would work to support 30 to 70 thousand people.

This much added water would destabilize the market.

As more practical solution teleport in block of ice with treasure sticking. Sell ice for huge markup over water. Market it as straight from the poles and good for your health. It has to easier to sell 7750 gallons to the rich instead 432000 to anyone. No need for a cistern or large distribution networks.

The biggest markup make ice sculptures. Imagine how much it would be worth to the ruler to host a party feed by water that has been ice for the thousands of years that is carved into the likeness of the lady he likes. Also the local water cartel will not try and kill you.


It can be done without the wayfinders but that route takes at least 2 spells and maybe 4. Plane shift and shadow walk. How many blocks this size would the city need. Maybe 1 a year?


Heavy lift belt 4k
Mule back cords 2k
Belt of str 64k
Prices are doubles to make slotless

Find a Diplodocus and kill it. Then animate it 750 GP.

This gives you a zombie with a str 42. That goes to 48 with the belt. 56 for carrying capacity witch is tripled. This beast can carry and iceburg weighing 2100 tons or 33.6 million gallons.

Rounding slightly for the density and we have 7.5 gallons per cubic foot. Roughly 4.5 million cubic feet. A block of ice 165 feet to side would cover it.

A beast this big requires a caster level of 48 to teleport so that is not practical but plane shift gets you within 500 miles and shadow walk allows speeds of 50mph.

For 75k you can get wayfinder of the stars witch allows for 1 teleport a day so you would need 2.


Teleport plus a treasure stitching allows you to move 7750 gallons in one trip. 100 castings of purify food and water for 10th level caster will do the same.

Lessor planar binding gets a great 5 gallons a teleport. If it takes and action to load and unload then that is 5 gallons every 18 seconds. This is about 4800 gallons a day. Wow that was less then I thought.

Purify food and water even at first level can get you 14400 gallons a day. This assumes that you can cast all day every day.


Will the final answer for this also cover natural attack increases?

I may have missed something but improved natural attack does not seam to work quite right with strongjaw.


Just because he hands out team work feats will not mean he is a slouch in combat. I thinking high AC and saves and moderate damage. A caviler with challenge and mounted charges does not need all that much to scary for the PCs.

If he just helps with teamwork feats that will be enough to make him of value to the PCs. When he turns on challenge and charges he might very well one shot a PC. At that level this not a bad thing.


Okay, that makes huge difference. Since he might be fighting as ally to the PCs we need a character that is can fight in several battles a day. Also as and ally we do not want any thing that will overshadow the PCs.

Can we go with Cavilier instead of fighter so we can grant teamwork feats to PCs? If not I think a Tactician fighter makes a lot of sense. Good teamwork feats that will help the anyone are lookout and swap places. Outflank is great for melee combatants.


I know about the mastadon but I am trying to get into the millions of pounds. I feller that can carry 16957 tons. I want to teleport that. I think I can get it even higher.

Windwalk is even faster and really thematic for a flying ship. 1400 miles a day is not to shabby.


Boon companion adds 4 levels one AC and can be taken once per AC. Beastrider (half orc feat) adds nice options to mounts and adds 2 their level. An oracle can add more levels with favored class bonuses. Inquisitor can get a full level mount and AC. Animal ally gets you a AC and then you can take and AC class to get 2 levels per level.

I built a character that can have 5 level 20 ACs at level 20 but some rules might be in question on that one.


What would happen to all the stuff in the ship when it is polymorphed?

Enchanting the ship would work but there are no rules for it.

The ship will be animated anyway so call construct works. Gonna be hard to teleport yourself at the same time.

I think that the wayfinder of the stars can pull it off but I am not sure.


I could definately do that but I will need rules for that stuff eventually since my PCs will will want to make a kingdom and be the government. Not sure how much I want to limit that.


I usually DM but when the campaign starts the first session is character building all together. My group like the teamwork feat. In my last campaign we had a caviler. others made choices to help the cav get his charges off more easily.


Pathfinder is one of my favorite games for an action RPG. I find that it does things other then combat poorly. In other systems you can have character who is terrible at combat but is yet the most powerful character in the game. You can not do that in pathfinder. I am okay with all of that because when I run or play PF I want combat.

The problem is two fold. I want there to be a world that makes sense in front to of the rules. This is more for me as a DM. As a player I will eventually ask questions of the DM as to why things are not the way I would expect. If there is not a good answer it hurts my fun. I would actually be okay with the game having no economic model at all bust since it does I want it to make sense.

As far as fun story lines goes being a noble can be fun but not if the rules for managing your holdings make no sense. In a world that follows PF rules those rules need to address magic. If they don't then the game will break when PCs try and use magic.

The other problem is when one player feels marginalized because his concept can not be as useful as another. This can be fixed by a gentlemens agreement from that casters, upping martials or nerfing casters. I say up martials.


The negotiation with the vamps sounds fun. Getting the spawn into position can be often easy but a few times they run into more then the bargained for. Spend little time on the milk runs.

I think that a single spawn will almost never have much impact on a small town or larger. Against smaller settlements they may be able to enslave the whole village but it may burn out much of time since they do not really know what they are doing.

If the spawn is not controlled the bad kingdom could simply pay it to work for them. And to give over any info it has.


The closest thing we have to adventures in the real world would be special forces. In a world with monsters their would be more call for them.


People who are adventures should be seen as nuts.

Waitstaff and washers would fall into unskilled labor. If it is skilled they are doing the kings laundry or waiting tables at the nicest of restaurants. Those are the kinds of jobs that people who can not afford and average lifestyle.

Maybe they are adventures because they want to make more then 1sp a day and they could not an apprenticeship.


How bad would it be to limit casters to spells of level X. Highten spell is a free feat and those higher level slots can be used for metamagic.

To many it feels like a fighter is a wizard limited to 1st level spells and metamagic despite having 9th level slots.


To add tiered power to things other then spells we could add skill exploits and BAB effects into feats.

If you have X ranks in acrobatics then instead check getting you the roll in feat you jump check-10 squares. This is same at 12 but 14 now gives you 20 feet and 16 gives you 30.

If you have 10 ranks in perception you can close you and use blindsight. All perception checks while doing so are made -20.

If you have 17 ranks in diplomacy you can spend an hour with some one to use dominate monster on them. Check -50 will save to negate.

BAB +17 power attack.
Split mountain: Make an attack roll against a natural feature. X DC feature is split into to similar features. Any thing on the feature is subject to the earthquake spell.

Do we really have problem a 17th level fighter killing the entire orc tribe with one swing of his axe that cleaves a mountain in two?

So that one might be to big an area but why something similar It might take him 30 swings to get through a mountain but so what.


To be fair the teleportation thing is more my beef.

On the level of labor the only thing that needs to change is what is required to be a skilled labored. Instead of craft being untrained it should be trained. DC 10 can be done in trained skills with no ranks so basic crafting is still covered. Require a +5 modifier to engage in skilled work. A first level character with skill focus, a trait and a rank can still do it but it is much less common. Skill focus represents apprenticeship and many a peasant would give up their life savings to get their kid one. Also means a guy with an 18 and rank can also do it.

As to crop failures: they will happen as part of plot.


Eltacolibre I like what you saying about who has high power items.

If I went with level+5 that would make it to easy to find a low level guy who can use a world changing item. Many of the ones I see are around level 9. I do not want a 5th level NPC to be able to use. Those things need to be 1 in 100,000 rare.


Also I like PF because its setting material is great. The APs a generally well done. I find the system easy to run. It is far more balanced then many other rules heavy system. RIFTs and GUPRs are not even worth a discussion of balance.

Shadowrun is imbalanced but is at least mostly balanced with niche. I can not see combat build that can out face the face or hacker that can do combat that a street sam.

In mage I can not thing an arcanum where a 4 in x is better the 5 in y.


I think equivalence is good as long as it does not lead to sameness.

An example of giving a nice thing to the martials is 7 league leap. I would love for an ability like that to come online like around 9th. maybe a little later.

What about an ability that let someone hold their breath for min/hour/days instead of rounds?

What about leaps that take you to the 5th story of the building? Okay so some monks can pull this off.

What about giving knock to rouges?

Find the path to rangers?

Legend lore to investigators?

None of this has to work like the spell per say but a similar ability that works as well would be nice. And if that means that these feel to similar to wizard then maybe some of this should not be available as a spell.


Not a bad way to handle it at all.

The reason for rule though is not about what the PCs have access to. I actually want to write the rule in a way that has little to know impact on the PCs.

I want there to be a rules based reason why kingdoms do not use lyres of building to raise cities, boots of teleport to ship things, and wands for fireball for defense.

If something about these items makes them harder to use then kingdoms cannot simply build items in quantity. That makes PCs more special and valuable instead of less.


Would level+1 +1/4 levels work?


I can see being more lax on consumables other then wands. Not that 3rd level wand really affordable in a 3rd level party.

Do PCs often buy weapons or RoPs or CoRs at a CL higher then themselves? Would it be bad if they could not?

I really do not have much problem with a wizard who can raise a castle overnight. I do not mind the bard doing it with lyre. I do not mind fighter making a new river with a decanter. I do not mind a 9th level character dominating trade given region or continent.

I do mind when a government can easily do this 100 times just because they have money. Limiting magic to the powerful makes worlds make sense to me but I do not want to make restriction that will hurt common choices made by PCs.

Thanks


Are items commonly acquired with a CL higher the level?
Other then pearls of power I am not sure.


If PCs could not use items with a higher CL then their HD how large an impact would this have on the game?

I can see letting weapons and armor be less restricted and no restrictions at all on scrolls or staves.

The main reason for this is keep magic items from feeling like tech. If a government can afford items and have low level NPCs use them it can lead easily to industrialization through magic.

Boots of teleport, lyres of building, and decanters of endless water can easily change the world if available in quantity. Governments can build them for about 1/4 cost using the downtime and crafting rules. These items would be far less useful if you needed CL Hit dice to use them.

The lyre as a 6th level item might need to change but if we put it at 9 like the fabricate spell then none of these can be casually used if NPC classes are limited 6.


@Coriat: I did not grasp what you were saying in the other thread. You are quite correct. Now once the ship gets to a major city it would use teleports to get it goods to another major market.

I can see ships stopping by every little village along the way from Skull port to Sargava. I just do not see them taking a full load through the shackles.

I know I have been harping on this on boards for a while now. I am running SnS right now. My players are not as bothered by this as I am but as DM it is less fun for me to run a world that does not make sense. It is hard for me to justify the Tian Xa treasure ship on its way through. Still you have made the coastal ship make alot more sense. I am not sure you would use big ships for this though. I can only see it if you only off loading at big cities while buying up all the little stops.


Coriat: What advantages does it have that would account for their being a significant number of cargo ships sailing around?

I do not mean this as snark, if teleport trade and cargo ships both exist in the world that is fine.


Orfamy: You are correct but I think the rules should reflect why it is not easy for someone with a lot of money but only a few levels use magic to change to world.

Or change the demographics section so that we know dang well that most towns do not have access to 3rd level spells.

5th level characters are not that uncommon but 9th level ones are.

If you had to be 9th level to use boots of teleportation then many of issues go away.


Designer guy. Of course that just answer how it should be run and not what the rules actually say.

He has also made calls that are not useful.


I think a big part of the problem is the world most fantasy games are set in. Galorian is a good example of this and the APs reinforce it.

Boots of teleportation can be made by a 5th level expert and money. You can buy 5 ships for the price. 2.5 if you only pay the craft cost. 1.25 using magical capital and little more then half with focus overseer to buy capital at 1/4 instead of 1/2.

Using other magic to boost carrying capacity and this method of shipping is far far better then a ship. Yet the AP assumes enough merchant shipping for their to be a whole nation or pirates. Why ever would shippers who can easily afford teleport shipping and have no problems finding someone who can make it ever use a ship.

Passengers and exploration still need ships but why do they not fly?
A 5th level adept can craft a construct. Another can provide the CL. What level is need to get a CL 11. 8 is just a trait and feat.

Several solutions exist but published material does not even try an talk about them. It should.

Throwing out a few ideas that would make difference.
1. Make ships faster. 48 miles/day is well below historic ships. Columbus did 150.
2. Make ships carry more. I think that the devs based cargo on the Caravel instead of the carrack. These ships carried 5 times as much.
3. Have magic effect ships. An ant haul effect would go far here.
Permanent gust of wind tied to the ship. Extra dimensional holds.

The problem is that at some point it no longer feels like a tall ship with magic but a modern or futuristic cargo ship. Once we reach that point we need to stop or make cheaper to build and run more ships then to make one carry more.

Once we know what that point is me need to change the rules of magic so it can not out do a ship. Just some thoughts. Use any and all.

1. Teleport is 10 miles per CL instead of 100.
2. Teleport can only lift 100 pounds per CL
3. CL is a hard limit on magic items.
4. Make magic capital hard to stockpile.
5. Teleported raw materials and foodstuffs do not teleport well.
6. Require HD to equal CL to use a magic item.
7. ED spaces do not teleport well.


By SKR's interpretation you refers to the crafting team and not just the possessor of the feat. I guess scribe scroll is like dictation is that case. The scribe does not have to compose the story(spell) while the author does not hold the quill.


A hex like that is a good reason for a war.


How do you cast 10 times a day as 3rd level wizard?


Half orc Barbarian 2/Fighter [mutation warrior] 1/Cavalier 1
1. Mounted Combat 3 Spirited charge F Power attack C Amplified Rage
Ferocious Mount rage power Order of the cockatrice
Str 20 +4 rage +4 amplified rage +4 alchemical = 32 (11)

(1d8 +16 str +6 power attack +1 challenge +1 order)x3
3d8+24
85.5 on a charge

This bad build overall but really good at the one hit.


Orc bloodline for +8
Draconic blood for +8
Magical linage for free intensify
Spell spec takes you to CL 5
Some traits can get +1 CL for CL 6
How do you get the extra 2 caster levels?
Where are the other two damage coming from.


Retraining can get it. I think claws would get +8 str. Adopted half orc tusked will get the bite.

Str 18 Dex 18 Con 10 Int 7 Wis 10 Cha 7

Human fighter (weapon master) 4
PBS/Precise/Rapid shot
Deadly Aim
Weapon Focus
Weapon Spec

+6/+6 1d8+11

Cons
2 less to hit then the above bloodrager
1.5 damage less then bloodrager
Less HP
DR acts twice
skills

Pros
Any buffs get spread over two attacks so magic will make this build over take the bloodrager. No need for rage rounds.
Ranged
Better AC


Taking a ship is stupidly easy with AoE spells. Fireball (ice subbed) will kill most of the crew. My PCs are not using that kind of spell and as long as they don't I will keep it out enemy hands.

This AP makes in almost silly not to bring NPCs with you. My party recruited the ghouls and plans to make a ghoul crew. I would let the players control the NPCs in combat while you control them out of combat.

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