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856 posts (949 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 aliases.


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Definately not 3. That is no where in the feat. I can see 2 but pretty sure that the last sentance explains how the +1 works. 20 HP is plenty.

Go with a the mounted fury and small teifling with plus to str and add in calvery formation and both characters and mounts can fit in a single square and do not interfere with each other. Mounted overrun and wheeling charge along with feather step or airwalk pretty much lets you charge anything.

I want to work up a full build at 11th level because the cav can bull rush on a charge as free action and that can free up the barbs movement.

Wow, threadomancy.

Going to go with master summoner on this one.

A cavilier with coordinated charge can grant it to a pouncing barbarian or wildshaped pouncing druid. Then the both the cav and the pouncer can charge twice in one round. Rhino charge makes it possible for pouncer to walk away then pounce again while ride by allows a cav to get past into his own next charge postion.

If the barb has a mount (mounted fury) then lots of mount stuff get added on.

The only issue is that the the free charge has to target the same creature that the the orginal creature targeted. How many thing live though a pouncing barb or cav lance charge?

I do not play in the PFS because cons are expensive but I have looked at many of the secenerios. They seam fairly easy to me. Assuming that this is not a a 1st level character at a 4th level table would a build like those in this thread actually be fun for the table?

As GM I would not mind if every one had one of these and either played up for a challenge or curb stomped the adventure for fun but I would take issue with one player having character that would get so much of the spotlight.

If I see a 4 vanillas and one of these I might ask the player to find a different table or play a different character.

On this note is there a 1st level (or any level) build that really make the rest of party shine? Flagbearer/lingering perfomance human bard would make martials shine.

Lookout is quite nice with a familar, AC or party member who will be close at hand. If both of you have good perception you can both end up with a full set of action in a surprize round.


I think a need role playing idea is a half orc wizard who carries a greataxe and wears furs to trick folks into thinking he is a barabarian.

Hand of the apprentice would mix very well with a great axe.

Benefites would be a much better then normal AoO for wizard and pretty decent non spell attack. Of course this also means being a universalist.

What can we do to make this trick still fun and useful though about the first 6 levels? By 7th level I should be able to cast a spell every round of combat all day long. 15 spells a day plus PoPs and wands make that reasonable since most games I play will not have more then 4 or 5 combats in one day and those ussually last only 3 or 4 rounds.

What 20 point buy would you use? a 14 str would be nice but would cost alot in other areas.

How would you take advantage of being thought a barbarian?

The intimidate version of this feat seams insanely good.

I assume that if they are hit by an attack of oppertunity it breaks the effect but even that is just crazy good. Even against melee target you can force them to move and give up a full attack.

Is there a consenses on how to run this feat? What does PFS do?

I saw several very long threads on this but I do not want to wade through 1000s of post to find what I am looking for.

I can see force them to target you with penalties for how stupid it is to for them to do so but why would a mage ever resort to melee when then want see some one dead?

I like unkillable or only killable with plot macguffians gods but they should not be omnipotent or omniscient. Sometimes one god sends a group of mortals out to do something because they might not be noticed by other gods.

In my games Gods a know what all of their followers know and everything about their domains. Can be kinda fun to watch PCs try and get one over on the god of air since most places have that.

Also Gods do not generally act directly because if they do so it then at least for a moment their realm is not guarded by them and a few demigods can do alot with even 1 round to unopposed actions. All the gods are in a giant standoff and if one acts to much it might start a nuclear war.


There is no ghoul template and i want to avoid the command ghouls ability in the dread ghoul template. I also in general avoid third party stuff but may use it if all else fails.

Is the best to make a NPC ghoul to assume that ghoul is a race that gets +2 str, +4 dex, +2 int, +4 wis, and +4 cha, ghoul fever, paralysis, claws and bite attacks at 1d6, +2 natural armor, the undead type, and 2 racial HD?

When I add a heroic class to it I also get to use a 15point by for stats or the heroic array?

How does the awesomeness of the ghoul race effect CR. I know there is a some set of rule for adding class levels to monsters but I can never seam to find it.

How does the extra HD from ghoul factor into the expected wealth on eq the ghoul has. Do we just use class levels? Do we tread the extra HD as class levels or maybe non heroic class levels?

I think profpotts has hit the nail on the head. Going first is a must as is the ability to get the client to safety. EFS grants great protection but the best protection is not being there.

Dim door is a nice start
Teleport is very good.
getaway is epic.

If the caster and client have the look out feats or maybe the familiar then the wizard can get a full set of actions in the surprise round. This would allow for a dispel magic to remove dimensional anchor and swift for getaway.

You know the permanent damage idea has merits.

I did warn the players to have new PCs ready just in case so that is not an issue.

Your right about the swim speed being and ineffective but they do not know that any of them can breath water. Good point on the channeling energy.

The coup worked because on the previous round the cleric had miss with his touch attack on inflict light wounds. I know that slumber is only1 round but the cleric was already there with a charged spell.

I think the triple keelhauling is a good idea. I will allow it to be reduced by 1 if each two of his friends will also take a keelhauling. It will demonstrate that they will not be loyal to you if you side with them. He can even get down to 1 if all 5 PCs take a keelhauling.

The Magus and the monk will most likely die. The witch can breath water and has a swim speed so I will give a chance to reduce the damage. The druid has shark companion so that may save him. The cleric can channel several times to counteract the damage but drowning is a danger.

After that replace any PC with other crew, get them to second and maroon them on Bonewrack, after they explore the island we will have the Man's Promise wash up on shore.

Plugg is not dead, the captain stopped things before they could coup him.

I did mess things up but the weapon that did the coup was a held charge. Each PC gets to start with a small item and the magus kept his pouch.

The other change I made was the purpose of the crew. They are on board because Peppery Longfarthing wants to cheer up Harrigan with some old fashion cruelty. Harrigan and Longfarthing care nothing at all about the crew or plugg or scrooge. The spell unseen crew is doing most of the work to crew the vessel.

I think that forcing one the PCs to keelhaul a member of their own might be a way to start. After that, put a newly terrified Plugg back in charge who talks the captian into marooning them on bonewrack isle few days later. Maroon any friendly or helpful allies with them. After week there Plugg and crew wash up with the Man's Promise.

As a GM I would only do the 1d4 or the 2d4 once per creature. It would take what ever is worse. On the other hand, if a creature crosses the wall more then once or the run down the wall as a large creature they will take damage from each square.

please remove

So my PCs managed to kill Plugg and subdue Scrooge on the on the first day.

I am using fire as she bears and the wyrmwood would need a crew of 57 so I filled in the rest with unseen crew cast by the sorc on board. Harrigan is depressed after his capture and his officers only brought the crew on board along with plugg and scrooge for entertainment.

Anyway, when dinner was served MS required groveling for the food. The PCs reacted with violence and within two rounds the magus had stunned both with color spray, the monk had pinned plugg, the witch had slumbered both and the cleric and couped MS. The druid had got a 30 intimidate to keep the crew out of it.

Harrigan used dazzling display to frighten then all and that is where we ended. I am considering a keelhauling and a promotion. Not sure where to go from here. My PCs are very very evil.

So my PCs managed to kill Plugg and subdue Scrooge on the on the first day.

I am using fire as she bears and the wyrmwood would need a crew of 57 so I filled in the rest with unseen crew cast by the sorc on board. Harrigan is depressed after his capture and his officers only brought the crew on board along with plugg and scrooge for entertainment.

Anyway, when dinner was served MS required groveling for the food. The PCs reacted with violence and within two rounds the magus had stunned both with color spray, the monk had pinned plugg, the witch had slumbered both and the cleric and couped MS. The druid had got a 30 intimidate to keep the crew out of it.

Harrigan used dazzing display to frighten then all and that is where we ended. I am considering a keelhauling and a promotion. Not sure where to go from here. My PCs are very very evil.

This thread has many great ideas for how to create a guided narrative but they miss one thing; metagaming.

I run railroad game and my players know it. They follow the clue I give them because they know that is where the adventure is. As a DM I have an obligation to provide a hook the PCs will not reject out of hand and the players have an obligation to follow the hook. For example I am not going to use "the town will be burned" with pure merc PCs. If all the PCs worship Pharasma then the everything will relate to that and they will not get an old many joins you in the tavern cliche.

I am just starting skull ans shackles and I flat out told them that they must all have a burning hatred of cheliax. They are also all evil and have embraced it as a philosophy. With those two points I can tailor the AP to pull them along to the conclusion.

The main thing I avoid is telling them how to do something since I dictate the what of the whole thing. Sometimes this can allow then to skip several things or have to deal with things I did not prepare. My players are cool with "Guys this is far outside the scope i need a week to prepare." They know that the game will be far better that way. It turns their auto win (boring) into a challenge equal to what they skip and they get greater narrative rewards. Besides settlers of cattan can fill up a week when things are not planned out.

As long as they have the freedom of how then are fine with giving up the freedom of what.

I think that technically you could not do it all because I think that to count as a wizard spell it needs to be cast out of a wizards spell slot. If magus casts a spell it is a magus spell.

Personally I see no reason to limit it to wizards and exclude the magus. On the page in your link the magus is not mentioned at all. I think the intent of the word wizard was to keep and alchemist from using it. I would allow any arcane spell prepared with the correct book to work.

Delay spell is a 3rd party feat but you can cast it and get off with a wish spell.

I like the bronze piece idea. Instead of being worth nothing they are worth 1 PP. The players will gladly sell them to some collector and you will reform in some nice museum somewhere.

Is this a 25 point pre racial spread, a 20 point human spread or something else?

Assuming human, you would get back 3 if you drop int to a 15 and that would allow a wis of 12 and a con of 14.

You could go as a finesse fighter and drop str. As a GM I let dervish dance work for any finesse weapon.

I attempt to trip a foe

1. Declare trip and use up standard action.
2. Target may may make AoO if I do not have Improved trip. They must still be able to make this AoO though. If you trip from behind cover or with a reach weapon or they are stunned then they will not be able to make this attack.
3. If they hit and do damage, the damage is added to their CMB for this CM.
4. Make CMB vs CMD roll. You do not have to roll if you are afraid of a counter trip or something but your standard action is committed to the trip.

If you have more then one attack you only give up one attack to attempt the trip but it is committed. No changing it after the AoO.

Just started reading this so I do not know if it all works but thanks for this. I doubt that this will get into my current game but because the players would balk at add this much in a week but it will be there after that if E6 does not happen.

Hey kirth you should make an E6 version of your rules

Runs and hides. That is a joke, you have done more then your fair share already.

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Those articles will really help you out.

Also if you calculate the exp of an encounter then add 50 percent more you will end up with the same CR for a party of 6.

Take an encounter with 400 exp in it. It is the CR X for 4 PCs, if you make it 600 then is will be CR X for 6 PCs.

Adding mooks is often the easiest way to to this but a LT for the boss is great. If the the AP calls out a solo fight always add mooks.

One reason to go with an amulet of mighty fists over brass knuckles is so you can wield wield/hold something in that hand. I would not allow an unarmed strike if you are holding something. That is not much but something.

Even before brass knuckles I allowed monks to buy gloves with weapon enchantments. It used their glove slot but that is not a neck slot.

I would agree with the op. The moral bonus should apply to any damage roll. Based on look at it from a single class perspective I would limit it to weapon damage rolls. It is easy so see how it can effect a natural weapon or punch but not so much on spells.

Besides we should let martials have nice things.

Letting your martial character have this will in no way harm break you game. I would go so far as to allow vital strike to apply to any single attack action. Cleave, spring attack, lunge, whatever. I would not allow it on a charge or AoO. Extra attacks from cleave would also not get it. This make vital strike better but still not great.

Vital strike is great for monsters with a big attack and druids that turn into them.

Thanks claxon, that is perfect. Same price as alchemist fire per pound. With a spread that far it will hit all adjacent sections.

That is enough damage to put a crimp in ship since it will hit many crew members.

More can dropped at the same time but each one will only add half as much as the one before.

This pattern of diminishing returns encourages you to use them over time. Also nice that they only start 1 fire and no splash.

Figure lamp oil can substituted but will require 5 times as much for the same effect. Still much cheaper but harder to get there.

Thanks for the help.

Actually I am the GM but my players have already asked about this one. I figure this should work both ways and a something flying from one ship to other is in range of cannons, spells, and archery for quite some time.

I should very much be a standard action to drop the sack. -4 as an improvised weapon makes sense but that would really apply to any dropped and not thrown weapon.

Not sure if the damage should scale linearly.
1 pounds = 1d6 splash 1
3 pounds = 2d6 splash 2
6 pounds = 3d6 splash 3
10 pounds =4d6 splash 4/1
15 pounds =5d6 splash 5/2
21 pounds =6d6 splash 6/3
28 pounds =7d6 splash 7/4/1
32 pounds =8d6 splash 8/5/2
41 pounds =9d6 splash 9/6/3
51 pounds =10d6 splash 10/7/4/1

Splash is 5'/10'/15'/20'

Hardness is applied to initial burst and to splashed squares. A targeted location does not take splash damage but 5 foot splash will hit a nearby rigging location, while a 10 foot splash will hit a 2nd hull location. A 15 foot splash will hit all adjacent locations.

Splashed hull locations will not take much damage but rigging only has a hardness of 1. The real danger comes form fires breaking out in areas beyond the 1st. The 1st area will almost certainly catch fire since the DC on the the reflex save is 20+ damage done.

Why could you not put 25 in a sack and drop the whole sack.

I mean I know they can but would the best way to work this out be.

I have not poured over the books entirely yet, but it seams like there are about 25 voting pirate lords.

Any thoughts on how many non voting lords there are and weather or not they get a share of the Sargava tribute?

Any idea the total number of free captains floating around? It seams that mention often the isles books so a few hundred at least.

The voting members of the council seam to be an average of level 9 with quite a few being as low as level 6. Assuming their officers are equal level then many of the full blown lords could removed by tempest rising.

How is it that Harrigan has failed to become a Pirate lord when so many lords are 8 to 10 levels lower then him?

Falling objects have range increment of 20 feet so it is only -14. A ship has and AC 6-10 normally so that requires a 20 to 24 to hit. That is not that hard even for low level characters. It can be made easier by flying lower.

So what happens after it hits (or misses but still hits the ship)?

I think it is easier to say that spells persist. If a debuff was ended then all buffs would end to.

So a rider takes to the air with a flying mount. Pretty easy to have 25 to 100 pounds (or more with minimal magic) left in light encumbrance. Rider takes bombs made of alchemist fire with him.

How would you rule throwing/dropping more then 1 at and enemy ship? I am using fire as she bears but I do not see an changes on who catching fire works.

So 25 pounds of alchemist fire in a sack dropped from 150 feet would do 4d6 damage simply by falling. Ranged touch to actually hit the square you aim for. Scatter rules would have it shift 7 squares witch would be enough to miss the ship except for a 1 or 5. Dropping from lower will only do 2d6 damage but can make missing far less likely.

Does alchemist fire do full damage to ship or just splash damage? What if it was aimed at a person and not the ship? Should you apply hardness for each A fire or just once? What do you do with the splash damage to the ship?

The gravity damage would be separate.

Lamp oil far cheaper, 100 pounds is only 10 GP. Drop a barrel on ship to soak it and fire arrow to light it. 100d3 damage? Since both burn for 2 rounds there is a very good chance the ship will catch fire.

I like the spear because it a simple weapon and can be thrown for good damage.

Nets are are great, get one with two ropes so t characters can keep some one form moving at all. Ghost touch nets can really mess up an incorporeal's day.

I like the whip but it is to much of an investment.

As a DM I do not worry much about carrying capacity. But I do enforce it at the extremes. If the witch with a str of 6 picks things up we do some math since a 10 pound anything can make a difference. We also check when the wild shaped druid with a heavy lift belt and mule back cords wants to carry the entire party in a flying form. Turned out he could and they spent 1000 GP on a custom harness to carry them so I let him have it.

air power:
My first thought is on the manticore that is mentioned in book 2 of SnS. Instead on landing on the PCs ship it should use its spikes followed up be flyby attacks. In this same vain is any flying creature with fly by attack. Reach is even better to avoid counter attacks. A Wyvern, or giant eagle work well but I did not find any with reach. Many other flyers are out there but with out flyby attack they will be little better then any other boarders.

A step up in difficult is anything with a breath weapon. A chimera or dracolisk offer low int options for this. Drakes have an average int and probably want to be paid if you can get them at all but they will be great attacking ships. Flame, mist, and sea Drakes have nice melee as well. The shadow drake has high speed and great stealth with flyby attack. The breath weapon in not much threat to the PCs but the crew would suffer. Last but not least would be a wyrmling, very young and maybe young dragons. They are only average int at that point and might like plunder a temporary hoard just for its size.

A harpy or 3 will very much mess up a ship as the crew all runs over board.

A giant vulture with a heavy lift belt and mule back chords (slotted for shoulders) costs 4750 GP. It can carry 2400 pounds and still be at a light load. If a rider and gear is 400 pounds that leaves 1 ton for a pay load. A dire bat cost 220 GP and can carry a light load of 173 pounds. With a halfling rider it can have a pay load of 100 pounds.

I figure that a 50 pound rock counts as size small, that does 4d6 damage form more then 150 feet. Oddly a 2000 pound stone will likely be size large and only do 8d6.

50 pounds of alchemist fire will most likely just destroy 1 hull section and costs 1000GP. Two of those and the ship starts sinking.

Cheliax does that with halflings all the time.

I have been thinking about this for quite some time. In general I think that having the crews fight each other will simply get in the way. That mechanic is already in the background. I will reserve the crew taking to arms for military ships and for those who think the pirates will kill them anyway. A bunch of low level experts and warriors may be a threat to 4th and 5th level PCs but even by then they do not add much beyond a cluttered battlefield.

Instead ship defenders will will fight off the pirates (witch may use crew) with the expectation that those who did not fight will be ransomed instead of killed. I think this will simplify combats somewhat.

None of these ideas are fully developed but I have come up with several different types. Some have been mentioned above already.

I am also going to assume that all ships will have a 1st level cleric on board. They will carry a wand of dispel magic and attempt to counterspell AoE spells. It is a houserule but I will allow the attempt if they are in range of the spellcaster or target area. Otherwise the range on fireball would be to long.

Rear cannon:
The ship mounts 1-4 9 pounders. These will open up at maximum range in an attempt to drive of the pirates. For now I would put a 6th level human fighter in charger of the cannon as he can pass on all of his feats to the crew.

1. Point blank shot, far shot, exotic weapon proficiency (cannon)
2. Navel gunnery
3. Weapon focus Cannon
4. Weapon spec cannon
5. Improved naval gunnery
6. Deadly aim
Weapon group siege engines.

BAB +6 + Dex +5 (start with a 17) + WF +1 + WT + 1 = +13 to hit. This only drops to +4 at max range. Deadly aim will give a -2 for +4 damage.

Damage = 5d10+7 with a ball or 5d4+7 with grapeshot.

Magic weapon, bless, cat's grace, and prayer would be the best spell support. True strike can help but +2 is often enough to hit better the 60 percent of the time. The other spells can add as much as +5. Even a max range many ship will be hit on a 3+.

Max range is 2200 feet. Many a cargo ship will have a speed of 80. That means that flying PC will only gain 120 a round on the ship. It will take 19 rounds to cover that distance. In that time the cannon can get off 9 shots each. Remember that they can target the running PC who will not get his dex to AC.

My guess it this encounter would be difficult unless the PCs have their own long range guns or board the the ship by stealth. If they stay out of cannon range it will take several min to gain on the ship. Running takes con checks to maintain so even flying over can be difficult.

Invisibility + haste + fly might be the best way to get on board

Cannons cost 1500 GP each and each shot is 65 GP. A 6th level fighter will also charge a ton for his services. I could see as 50 GP a day. He may also be a co owner of the ship. At those prices they may scale back the fighter and limit his shots. They do not want to give up to much cargo space and they will not want to fire more then the ship/cargo is worth. A size 6 ship is worth 34000 GP, the crew can be ransomed for around 3300 GP and the cargo is around 10k. Total ransom is around 27k. I always figured plunder worth far more in the inner sea region. They will not want to spend more then this on defense. 4 cannon with 20 shots each costs 11200.

More soon I hope.

I think spell blending makes any wizard spell you choose into a magus spell so not arcane armor failure chance and you can spell combat/strike.

The class is great but it really does lack endurance. I think a kensai will tend to give up some spell power to be have more endurance. A catrip you can spell combat with makes a big difference. Touch of fatigue seams better then any think else.

Some have said the spell storing does not allow touch, ray, or ranged touch spells. It would allow hold person and the like. I forget the rational.

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Did not connect what happens to a spirit with getting trapped. It gets sucked back if it's spell ends. That means that you should as well. To me Spirit just means some one whose original body died.

I am the GM.

I guess HP does not change, now I have answer if I want to or not.

Sorry about the phrasing and thanks for the responses.

I thought that mind effecting spells would still work because they target you and not the vampire. Even a spell like charm person could work on you. On the other hand, control/command undead would fail.

I would tend to side with gaseous form being automatic at 0 but you can not activate it on your own.

Blood drain I think is a no go base on what you said. I am not sure they have to drain blood from a pinned victim.

Missed the "Can" in create spawn, that one is a no go.

So no for the weird on.

A vampire has 10d8 HD that have all been trained up to max. That is 80 HD and that will override what ever you have. Lets say he is also wearing a headband of Cha +2. That would add 10 more HP. Who is wearing the headband when the vampire soul is in the jar? If I get the band for my cha do I lose 10 HP because the vamps cha went down? My cha is used for fort saves, can my mod replace the vamp's mod for HP?

Weird corner case on that one.

As to skills, I can see bonuses to physical skills but mental skills are lost as mental abilities.

All in all a vampire seams to be a very good target for magic jar.

The way I read spirit jar it just seamed to keep souls where the were then the spell wears off. I am not sure you would get sucked into an empty one. If you did the vamps body would then have no soul since the jars hold on to its soul. I think you are right on the whole distance thing.

Thank you for taking a look. I figured that disintegrate would frag you but baleful polymorph would not work.


Um any one?

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When I was a kid I got my first set on DnD and that appendix was my library list for a good while.

Kirth I feel that you might be older then me but you definitely not to old to game.

I ran red box rules and keep on the borderlands for two guys in their 50s, 1 lady in her 30s and her 12 year old daughter.

Only 7 deaths in 7 hours but that happens when they get to characters with sleep in the party.

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