Marten Fawkes's page

Loose is somewhat of an understatement. Shrink item, on which the Needles are based, explicably allows things like burning fires, which theoretically consist of smaller items and i have seen at least one occasion in an adventure path where Shrink item is used to shrink and steal a container including contents.

On the other hand, the Needles have none of the size and weight restrictions of the spell.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/needl es-of-fleshgraving
So, i kind of fell in love with this item recently since it has plenty of flavor. And i started wondering, what exactly constitutes as an object in regards to it.
For example, would a purse of coins work, or for that matter a chest or other container containing things? What if it contains a live being?
And just how big can the Object be, am i able to inscribe a carriage? A colossal weapon? Or does the object need to be strictly handheld? Do i even need to touch it?
Can i inscribe objects that are undergoing a process? A pyre, a burning barrel of tar?
Can the needles inscribe themselves onto someone?

So, i am curious what you guys think.

Huh, i guess you are technically right.
I am still not sure about Saving Finale though, since your allies are not affected by the bardic performance per se but instead by the feat.

The problem is, that it is pretty much implied that the Dervish only uses Perform(Dance) for his Bardic Performance and the feat explicably needs vocal Performances.

Something that just occurred to me while rolling an arcane duelist and i couldn't find anything on the boards so far.

If we read the spell strictly RAW, would the bard be able to use it to let himself reroll a save?

Except the only way for an Eidolon "to be sent back due to damage" is if it is killed. At this point he is not arguing rulings. He is flat out twisting semantics.

(I assume he is ruling that the sentence means "if you decide to dismiss it due to damage", but if that were they case it would be a normal dismissal and there would be no point in stating it again.)

[edit] Ninja'ed [/edit]

Also keep in mind that at that level most dedicated Debuffers can easily disable such melee oriented builds with a multitude of spells.
In my campaign i have way more trouble to keep that damn Witch in check, nothing short of mind-affecting/sleep immune things work. And even then the Evil Eye/Misfortune/Cackle combination is crippling to most else.

Well, my last two cents probably, since this threat seems to be somewhat treading water.

In regards to the Reach Evolution question:
"Reach (EX):
One of an eidolon’s attacks is capable of striking at foes at a distance. Pick one attack. The eidolon’s reach with that attack increases by 5 feet."

Notice, how it says "attack" instead of "attack form" or "attack type" like it does with Improved Damage, Push or Pull.
In my eyes this strongly implies that you have to, in fact, choose a single attack that benefits from it. Which would also explain the fact that it is only a 1 Point Evolution. Although i admit that it is very odd that the evolution is missing the "can be taken more than once" line.

And to address a few of the other points:
Yes, a well-build Synthesist can be incredibly powerful. But i still maintain that a similarly well-build fighter can be just as efficient if not more so. Part of the reason for that is the problem of the buffing/casting/attacking action economy, which admittedly gets kind of thrown out the window if we assume there is another dedicated buffer in the party. But in that case all of the Sythesist's discounted spells like Haste might as well be decorative. [edit] The other thing is, that the Synthesist is "only" a 3/4 BAB class. [/edit] The one thing Synthesists have going for them is an absolutely ridiculous AC, together with things like Antagonize they can make incredibly efficient tanks. But as far as straight up murder is concerned it is still declassed by several other classes.

Is a Synthesist powerful? Yes. That is why it is somewhere in the upper tier 3 range.
Is it THE most powerful? Unlikely. In the Summoner class alone it is easily outclassed by vanilla Summoners and Master Summoners (I'd be willing to make an argument for those to be among the most powerful classes up until midlevels and early highlevels).
Then you have a plethora of Druid builds that can absolutely match the Synthesist step for step. Or the hairy, drugged-up nightmare that is the Beastmorph/Vivisectionist. And those are only the classes that most closely resemble the "Synthesist role".

The one thing the Synthesist really has going for him is an incredible versatility in the form of fun Evolution combinations and the Evolution Surge spell tree.
Sadly, you rarely see builds that deviate from the usual cookie cutter - throw as much natural attacks at it and see what sticks - approach.

Ah, i just noticed i DID forget that Large Eidolons have to spent double the Evo Points on Strength and Constitution. So yeah, potentially another 4 Points spent too much.

I guess we could assume that the large size might have come from Enlarge Person which comes with the caveat that only the Synthesist can cast it on himself and it can not be permanencied. That brings alongs its own host of problems though, since he needs to spent the first round of most combats buffing himself to large.

Still, that leaves him with 12 spent points, i suspect he forgot that the Reach Evolution has to be bought for every single attack and not every attack form. It is either that or the character in question is a half-elf with the Extra Evolution feat which would further deplete his limited feats.

So in theory, the proposed build is sort of possible at that level. It just isn't as impressive as it looks. Unless he can enter a combat fully buffed, which (at least in my experience, ymmd) is more of an exception than the norm, he will either spent some of his rounds buffing himself or he will enter the fray somewhat gimped.
All the while a fighter will already be tearing into the enemies.
Most kinds of damage reduction that you encounter around that level will stop Eidolon damage dead in its tracks.

I sort of agree, the Synthesist looks incredibly broken on paper and with a certain decree of system mastery one can absolutely be ridiculous.

But still, the Synthesist Archetype sacrifices more than he gains in my opinion. Sure, you get your pseudo-gundam Eidolon Armor that makes your character feel really pimp, but on the other hand you basically cut your actions per round in half.
A Synthesist will have enormous problems to keep up with buffs alone if he ever finds himself in a fight without preparation (can i say random encounter at night?).
Not to mention that a permanently fused Synthesist will raise more than just a few eyebrows, at least in my campaign. Sometimes it simply is not an option to run around in an unnatural bastard form between monster and man.
And almost every Synthesist build i have seen so far was borderline useless without his fused form. And that is easier to take away than many realize.

Considering what you have told us:

Large Evolution (already established as illegal at that level): 4 EP
Additional set of limbs: 2 EP
+ Claws : 1 EP
+ Improved Damage: 1 EP
Maxed out Strength: 4 EP
Reach x 4: 4 EP

So, we have an Eidolon that has potentially spent 16 Evolution Points of 10 available at Level 7.

Yeah, i am somewhat confident that the faulty build is mainly to blame.

Further Addendum:
I just did the math, roughly. In my group we have a fighter focused on ranged combat that is not only on par in terms of damage but could also potentially strip this sythesist of his eidolon in one full attack (remember, Eidolon hitpoints are always averaged racial hit dice), especially, since he definitely does not have the Evo points to keep his AC capped as well.
And a Synthesist with all his eggs in one basket like this is very vulnerable without his Eidolonform if he only has probably sub-par Summons (i doubt he has the feats to spent on Augmented and Superior Summons).

Yeah.

Don't.

I am not a fan of most of the Fighter archetypes to be honest. I don't like to lose Armor Training and potential versatiliy. But sure, for straight up face shredding damage it works.

You could also use the five feats from the whirlwind tree to instead go down the Dazzling Display, Intimidating Prowess, Shatter Defenses line of feats to make one TERRIFYING sonovab~!*#. This also gives you access to Deadly Stroke at Level 11 which means you can whack someone for +27(6d6+54, +1 Con BLEED). The Con bleed might not seem like much but for high HD enemies it can average out to a nice amount of passive bonus damage it loses every two rounds.

And i am pretty sure you could swap out that whole Whirlwind Feat Tree for something much more effective. I just find the idea hilarious. In fact, you have 5 feats you could dump on the whole Archer Line of Feats and take the second Weapon Training for bows. All of a sudden you are just as deadly ranged as you are melee.

Yeah, i mainly took it for the possible reach shenanigans and to have the fighter the same size category as the eidolon.

Alright, i whipped up a terribad Fighter Build. Srsly, i wasn't even trying, this is merely for a sort of comparison.

Great Cookiecutter Fighter 10
Human
20BP
Size Large (Permanencied Enlarge Person)
Str 26 (16 Base,+2 Human,+2 Level,+2 Enlarge,+4 Belt)
Dex 13 (15 Base,-2 Enlarge)
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 8

HP(1st HD Full + 9 HD averaged): 59+10(Con)+10(Favored)= 79
AC: 10+13(Armor)+1 Dex -1(Size)+4 Shield(Potion)= 27
BAB: +10/+5

Abilities:
Armor Training 2 (Can move in Heavy)
Weapon Training 2(4 with Gloves)
-Heavy Blades
-Whatever the hell else

Feats:
Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Power Attack
Weapon Specialization (Greatsword)
Lunge
Furious Focus
Combat Expertise
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Whirlwind Attack
Greater Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Improved Critical (Greatsword)

Gear:
Permanencied Enlarge Person
Boots of Speed
+2 Fullplate
+2 Greatsword
Belt of Strength +4
Gloves of Dueling
Shield Pots

Now for the fun part. Adding it all together(Beware of mistakes, this was done fairly hasty).
Normal Attack Routine(Hasted, Powered attack):

+26(3d6+27), +23(3d6+27), +18(3d6+27)

Those three attacks already average out to the same or higher damage as the eidolons full attack routine with a MUCH higher chance to connect. Add in the 17-20 Crit Range and you leave the Eidolon in the dust. And that is just the standard attack routine.

With Lunge you are looking at a threat range of 15ft, coupled with Whirlwind Attack for great hilarity you can potentially attack ANYTHING in range for +23(3d6+27)

And i am pretty sure this build is sub-optimal, as someone will probably point out.
[edit] Plus you have the funds to carry Coldiron, Adamantite and/or Mithral Versions of Greatswords around with you. For those pesky Damage Reductions that the Eidolon has no hope of ignoring.[/edit]
[edit2] Hah, forgot the size malus on attack rolls. [/edit2]

Welp, yes. For some reason i was under the impression, that Claws were a 2 Point Evolution.

Well, one of the reasons this thing seems so overpowered is probably, that it is illegaly build. ôO

For example, by my calculation it only adds up to 30+2 Strength:
16 Base
+4 Str Increase
+2 Ability Increase
+8 Size increase
+2 Belt

Also, he seems to have spent more evolutions points than he actually has. (Unless he is an half elf with extra evolutions.)

He paid only 2 Points for 4 additional claws, that should be 4 points. In addition, it seems as if two of those are on his limbs, which is borderline illegal/cheese on a biped in my opinion. ESPECIALLY if he is wearing Speed Boots. So he is actually missing a complete set of limbs which means he is another 2 Points short.

Plus, at Level 10 his Eidolon is only allowed to have a max of 5 natural attacks. Period.
Additionally he can't use the hand equipped with the Shield to make any attacks at all.

There might be things i have missed, but this is it for a cursory glance.

[edit] Another thing i just noticed, his attack bonus should only add up to +19(+16 with power attack) And why the hell does he have Weapon finesse, is that maybe Weapon Focus?[/edit]

Hm, the Marquis is definitely a roguish kind of character. So he'd really lend himself to a rogue or bard archetype. A man of pure resourcefulness that oozes a particularly dangerous kind of charisma. Charlatan and Archaelogist really fit him.

On the other hand, what makes him most potent and dangerous are the countless deals and debts he has accumulated and while that will be difficult to emulate i could also really see him as a Conjurer Specialist/Chelaxian Devil-binder or something along those lines.

I'd probably say he is a human in any case. The extra feat and skill points reflect his resourcefulness best. Certainly not a stagnant, aloof race like elves or a infantile one like gnomes. Although the eerie influence of London Below could also be made into a Tiefling(one of the Charisma Bloodlines) or Fetchling Heritage.

Pfff, you make me sound like an obnoxious munchkin.
That was mainly a fun thought experiment to see what the rules make possible RAW.

Another problem we stumbled upon is the question of Eidolon equipment and whether it gets brought along with the Eidolon when it is summoned or if you have to equip it every time.

The shared item slot mechanic and possible weapon proficiencies coupled with the fact that several Summon Monster candidates get summoned with Equipment seems to indicate to me, that it should be possible.

[NEVERMINDEDIT]
my search fu was weak:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/olderProducts/advanced PlayersGuidePlaytest/round2/uPDATESummoner

The one odd thing about that though, he explicably states "magic items". Which could be construed that non-magical items get summoned/dismissed with the Eidolon?

[STIlLANOTHERNEVERMIND]

It occurs to me, that this was a Playtest Thread. How relevant are the things in it still, if they were not addressed in the final rules upon release?

Hm, considering what you have told us, you could probably safely treat your group's APL as 1 higher than the actual average despite having only 5 players. 25 point-buy is a considerable step up in terms of power. I have run that same scenario with three Level 2 players and 15 point-buy and they breezed through those first encounters as well, despite me adding cannon fodder goblins indiscriminately.

Since they understandably slaughtered the first two encounters and are probably severely underestimating goblins right about now, you should try to use the third opportunity to really drive the point about mindless madness home and put the fear of goblins in them.

You could back the original encounter up with one of the Warchanters and have the pyros also make another comeback. If i remember correctly, there should be a stable nearby. Just have the encounter take place IN the stable instead of in front of it. A bunch of goblins with oil, torches and alchemist's fire coupled with the VERY flammable characteristics of a straw filled stable should make for a bit more exciting battlefield.
Imagine the chaos of half a dozen goblins throwing around liquid fire and running around screaming and burning setting everything they touch on fire. Also, flood the PCs with goblins, flanking is your friend.

What.

I mean. What.

That is a hilariously dangerous miscalculation of challenge ratings. First of all, the Average Group Level, that appropriates the group's might is exactly that: averaged. So your group would have an APL of 2.

Now, you might want to brush up on how to build an encounter, you can do that conveniently here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering#TOC-Step-3-Build-the-Encounter

But in general an encounter is par for the course if CR=APL, challenging if it's CR=APL+1, hard if CR=APL+2 and downright epic if CR=APL+3. Anything more and your are venturing deep into TPK country. For your situation you are probably looking at a "hard" CR of 4 maximum. Although if your players are new or the class composition is somewhat odd you might want to scale this down to CR 3

At this point in the adventure, the goblins are still partly comedic relief intented to be little packages of mindless mayhem, just as dangerous to themselves as they are to their surroundings. You could add a squad of pyromaniac goblins carrying flasks of alchemist's fire and have them "accidentally" suicide bomb the PCs as they attempt to throw them. Stuff like that.

[edit]ah, ninja'd.[/edit]