MarkusTay's page

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

So if 4e people rebel against 5e, does that mean PF/4e people are finally on the same side?

Anyhow, I thought the very same thing after the 1st announcement. The war is over.

But at what price victory?

After all, nerd-angst makes for fun reading. :P

I think their 'stated intentions' are noble, but they may be over-reaching. Some bridges can't be rebuilt (but I hope I'm wrong).

I like what I am hearing. I also liked what I was hearing about 4e, before it came out. I was sorely disappointed.

However, I won't hold a grudge - they can't all be gems. The old (3e) team hit one out of the park.

Not much of interview - what? Three questions?

And his answers were extremely vague.

Still, thanks for posting this link.

Would have been a good idea to mention that you are talking about the 4th Edition GSL.

At least, I assume that.

Why? Is there a 5e one out already?

And no, my GF just laughed. That was MY OWN interpretation of what it said, but despite any embellishments, that was the gist of the contract.

We take back what we already gave you, no longer give you permission to publish anything under the old (OPEN) license (weather you are already heavily-invested in it or not), and 'tentatively' allow you to use our new product, at our discretion, and can take that permission back at any time, at our own discretion (READ: Your head is in a guillotine, and the blade will drop whenever we feel its in our best interest).

Is that better? {smirk}

And despite everything, I still have high hopes for 5e. I'm hoping for what I call a 'soft' reboot of FR (keep all existing canon intact, unless over-written by new lore, which is how they've always handled it). That will allow them to fix all the continuity issues (and chuck-out the garbage that shouldn't have been there in the first place), and still keep fans happy by presenting the Realms in its pristine, original-release state.

As for the rules... rules are rules. I use everything, and in the end, just homebrew the heck out of it. Rules don't matter to me nearly as much as the settings do.

You might want to try E-Bay instead of a garage sale.

I heard that people there aren't having to pay much to get folks to take it off their hands.

Sorry... couldn't resist. :D

Agreed.

More companies mean more choices. I am saddened by every RPG company closing in the past - even the ones I did not patronize. Being a gamer is about choice, not being shoe-horned into a specific niche.

To Gary Gygax, and all the other that followed, and to all the author's who's works inspired Gary in the first place, I raise my cup in salute.

Edit: And I would just like to (not) thank everyone here for making me Google F.A.T.A.L., which I never heard of. It burns!!!

On the bright side, some of the reviews I read made me have an honest-to-god, old-fashioned spit-take. :D

Wow.

I'm no lawyer, but my GF is - and she laughed when I let her read that thing.

WotC gets: Control of all aspects of their competitions production and creative endeavors, FOREVER. The right to re-use things created by their competitors, and to cancel the rights of their competitors to use anything of theirs, ever again (even if something is already 99% ready for publication). They get back their ability to control the OGL, which they once gave-away freely to all parties.

WotC Loses: Nothing

Their competition gets: Limited use of the 5e material, at WotC's final discretion, and said usage can be cancelled at any time (including after the other company s heavily invested in publishing several products).

Their competition loses: The ability to produce products based off of all other material (OGL) WotC freely gave them in the past. The ability to creaet future product-lines and be heavily invested, for fear of cancellation of their limited-use license, at WotC's discretion.

The idea that they would have allowed anyone (their COMPETITORS!) to make more profit then them, and not use the GSL to put a strangle-hold on others, is a pipe-dream. Basically, "We want all our toys back, and we want to be able to use your toys whenever we want, and we might let you use our toys, sometimes, but we can (and will) take them back whenever we want"

Seriously - thats not a contract. Thats a death-sentence.

And yet, I am still willing to give 5e chance. I do not think they are 'evil', they are simply a company doing whats best for them (which is how all companies work, so by that definition you would have to claim all companies are evil). Self-interst is the back-bone of capitalism.

Caveat Emptor

Of course it was, and I was the very first person to go on EVERY RPG site I could find, everywhere, and yell at the top of my lungs "Only an idiot would sign the GSL!!!"

The only thing that 'contract' was lacking was the demand to 'sign in blood'. Seriously - a more one-sided deal I haven't seen (not since the Native Americans sold Manhattan for a buncha beads).

So the difference, you see, is that the 'perp' handed the murder weapon to the intended victim, and said 'please use that on yourself'. They were very polite about it. In fact, their feelings were hurt when no-one complied. Technically, thats not murder - thats 'assisted suicide'. ;)

And even after all that, I would still buy their products, IF they produced something I wanted. Its that simple - welcome to capitalism.

First off, you have to be cool enough to even have a mustache worth twirling. The 'Mustache Police' enforce these rules rigidly.

Second, did someone just accuse WotC of being Murderers (or rather, attempted murderers)? And I thought I used to have some epic nerd-rage. You can't 'kill' a corporation - you can only smack it around a little (and say it walked into a door when the cops ask questions).

You can buy it, and absorb it, but thats more like what vampires do... or 'The Blob' (How come D&D never had a Corporate-Pudding? I'd be scared!)

Anyhow, someone just mentioned the fact that WotC didn't allow further downloading of their PDFs. I just ran into this wall only about a week ago. I mentioned a couple of times on these boards in the past few days How I am currently in the market to replace all my gaming stuff, but I never bothered to say why.

My house burned down to the ground.

Yeah, yeah... it sucks. I'm done being miserable (7000 minis!!!), but whatever - I look at it as an opportunity (once the grief stopped). The Ins. Co. gave me gobs of money to replace my stuff, so now I can make like a kid in a candy store... and avoid all those products I regretted buying the first time.

So, the other day I remembered I purchased a bunch of PDFs from Paizo - a lot of old edition stuff - mostly Al-Qadim and all the OA adventures (to complete my FR collection). I also had the free stuff from Paizo (like the Beta), and their Gazeteer. I figured I would restart my collection with that, and go from there.

Well, low and behold, it appears WotC has made my choice for me. I can now only download the PF stuff, so thats what I have to build off of. In retrospect, I hope they realize just how stupid that move was (pulling their old products off the market). I basically bought and paid for products that I was told I would be able to download 5 times, and WotC denied me the rights to my paid-for merchandise. I feel like I was mugged.

If not for the other crap I am currently dealing with, I'd be really pissed off over that, but in the greater scheme of things its just small potatoes.

So with all of that, and not really liking how 4e turned out, I am still willing to at least take a look at 5e. As some others here have said, I am not brand or company loyal - I will buy what I like, and what I think my players will enjoy. Good products sell, and crap doesn't, and thats all there is to it. Its no big secret how to be successful - just produce quality products; the rest will take care of itself.

Basically, its little different then pre-generated characters that some modules came with, or what they use in tournament play. The 'thinking' is done for them, so you can just jump right in and play.

I don't think that is anything new - I always kept around a few spare characters for whoever wanted to join-in. I hope thats not the entirety of their plan, because it doesn't seem very innovative at all.

I assumed simpler skill sets and the like. Also, it can't simulate things like races-as-classes like OD&D had. I still have high-hopes, but if all it is is a buncha pre-builds, then why bother? I could simulate that easily with OGL/PF/3.5. I can even think of one computer game that gave you that option - Arcanum. All you had to do is pick a guy and play, if you didn't want to spend the half-hour or so character-building.

I'm going to have to completely agree with Adamantine's assessment - why bother investing the time, when the 'weekender' can stand toe-to-toe with your guy?

You know what I REALLY hate?

The people of Alpha Centauri. I do... I just hate them. They've never done anything for us, or taught us better technology.

Oh... wait a minute... I just realized we haven't even seen them yet. My bad.

Get it? ;)

Its okay for everyone to have an opinion, but I find it very odd we are already seeing so much anti-5e sentiment. Some sort-of preemptive strike, perhaps?

You want to hate 4e, fine. You want to dislike WotC (which everyone forgets saved D&D from oblivion once, and brought us the system Paizo is currently using), thats okay too. But please, PLEASE stop hating something no-one has ever seen yet.

I am no fan of 4e, and absolutely loathe what they did to The Forgotten Realms, but all this hold-over hatred isn't helping anyone.

If 5e is good, and lots of people enjoy it, in the long run we are all better-off.

@Diffan (and anyone else who cares)

I realize my explanation was very simplistic, but I do 'get it'. I have a bad habit of rambling, and I am trying my hand at self-edit (no easy task, as you know me from elsewhere).

The idea is the groups will also be able to 'expand' what they want to use as time goes on, and more products are released, or, 'pull back' if things become overly complicated, and use less. In fact, sometimes the same group may want a different style of play ("Lets all bash some heads and get phatt Lewtz!") for single session or two, as a break from the monotony (I have seen entire sessions get bogged-down by a stage-hog RPer).

In the olden days, we used to have to roll up other characters for these 'one night jaunts' (usually using T&T rules), but wouldn't it be a hoot if we could choose to revert to a simpler style, just for an evening, with our already-developed PCs? Thats the real beauty of what the propose. Its not just modular to the players, its modular per session. You can play a completely different type of game when you are in-town, then when you are deep within a dungeon.

And I don't think they mean you will be able to use actual 1e or OD&D characters alongside 4e (I have no clue how they could accomplish that) - what I think they mean is that they will create one, coherent system, wherein each style of play can be emulated. Ergo, your OD&D Elf character class could cast Vancian-like magic alongside a 3e warlock, or a 4e 'Controller'. I have to admit, I am very curious to see how they manage to pull this off. I'm thinking an Essentials-style treatment of the 4e rules, for each edition, which recaptures a specific 'flavor' of D&D, but I could be way off base with that one.

Lets just see how much this 'emulation layer' bogs the game down, if at all. I know from computer experience, for a short while, Apples were able to run Windows software in 'Emulation Mode' faster then windows computers could (until the processor speeds caught up).

I read the rules when they first came out, but have never played them, so i cannot claim any familiarity.

However, I used to play a lot of large-scale tabletop miniatures games, including WH and WM, and the rules had that kind of feel (more like Warmachine then Warhammer, though).

I can't say it played that way, but thats the impression I got, having experience with those games.

And WM had 'powers' like that, where you can force moves, etc. 4e may have been an amalgam of Miniatures and WoW-style play (not being insulting, just going by a lot of what others have said, and my experience with similar rules).

I am also not saying that is a bad thing unto itself - it just wasn't what I was looking to get out of the game. I have played other squad-based tactical games, and have enjoyed them. It just seems odd to me to marry an RP element to them, but obviously it found an audience, so its all good.

@ DigitalMage - point taken. The term 'troll' itself would have to be applied differently to different parts of these forums. How very enlightened (not being sarcastic - how do you guys know how to take each other without smilies?)

I can use any rules - I used at least seven different company's rules back when I ran Greyhawk, so they matter very little to the types of games I enjoy running.

Its the settings that matter to me, and I borrow from the all. I just hate the idea of being behind the 'learning curve' in anything - I'm not used to being the 'newb'. Thats probably the only thing that has kept me from embracing Golarion. How do I run a world that my players know more about then I do?

I want it to be a great game that entices many new people to pick-up and start playing P&P RPGs (again).

You know, what D&D has always been.

Try to remember, if 4th edition didn't happen, Pathfinder probably wouldn't have happened. Nothing bad can come out of the guys over at WotC trying to expand our little hobby, regardless of weather you support them or not. It really is a win-win.

More gamers = more people eventually discovering and playing PF. Competition is only bad in a fully saturated market, and right now, P&P RPGs have exponential potential in this regard.

All I want is for 5e to be good, and succeed. It doesn't matter if I use it - I still reap the benefits.

@Aubrey - I am still not seeing how this was any different then late 2e, wherein more then half the rules were options. We can agree to disagree.

What 'weekend gamers' and 'hardcore gamers' want out of the game are two very different things, and thats how you balance it. Even if the 'Weekender' is "getting off easy" (having fewer things to keep track of, and build-up, which could lead to imbalance), the old-school simulationist is going to be getting all sorts of cool RP options, which is what they want out of the game. The balance doesn't have to be in combat - I think thats where 4e went very wrong.

In my above example, Sam might have a '12' in his (theoretical) Stealth stat, but Suzy has an '8' in picking pockets and '15' in climbing walls. So Sam gets to keep track of less, and gets a less 'immersive' experience (which he didn't want anyway), and Suzy gets to have scores both higher and lower then Sam to do the same exact things, which is what she wants.

I used to work for a game company, back in the dinosaur days of RPGing, and it is possible to balance such a system, so long as you keep track of all the math (its just a numbers game, once you boil all the flavor out).

@Diffan - I haven't read the whole thread - just the first page. You can usually get a very good idea of whats going on, without having to dig through piles of mud-slinigng that way. Most folks just keep saying the same thing over and over anyway (which I am guilty of myself, elsewhere).

This is how I see it playing out - the group decides how much of the modular system they want to use. By 'group', I mean the simulationists and the DM - those 'weekenders' aren't going to really care - they just want to thwack stuff and get Phatt lewtz (which is FINE - to each his own). This decision doesn't effect the 'Weekeneder' at all, because he is going to just be using the 'fast & dirty' rules, regardless.

Everyone else will be able to choose from the buffet that is the group-excepted level of play. Because even amongst simulationists, you will have varying degrees of what people want to micro-manage.

The only problem I foresee is a group that insists everyone play at the same level, which would be a shame, since they'd be denying themselves a lot of fun by not having those other folks onboard (unless the group was very cohesive and select, in which case the modular approach wouldn't even apply to them - they would already have a consensus on what they were using, including house-rules)

Also, the guy (or gal) who isn't invested (yet) may see what others are doing with their characters, and want to start adding layers of 'realism' to their own, and eventually become more involved gamers, which is great for the hobby over-all. Right now the biggest wall stopping 'newbs' from joining P&P RPGs are the rules - they are daunting. If people can learn-as-they go, in little bites, without so much commitment, we'd be able to really grow this hobby once again.

D&D, in any form, has a greater ability to grow our hobby then all other companies combined, which in the long run is a win for us all. We should be applauding their efforts, even if we do not choose to use some or all of their products.

Apparently the current residents of Arizona don't wish to be reminded that they were once a part of Mexico...

We could always give them back, as a gesture of good faith.

THIS

Seriously, what does it produce? Its useless land. Teach 'em a lesson and give it back. Just make Puerto Rico a state so we don't have to modify our flags.

We should probably give back Texas too......

As I think I stated, I am only recently returned to these boards, which I find quite a bit more civil then most others. Now that I have read through a few more threads, I can see that there is a certain amount of contempt for 4e still left. My apologies. On the other hand, I do not take a plane to Korea and start shouting 'Communism Sucks!" in front of their capitol building.

Why do people do exactly that here on the internet?

I used this example over at CK, and I will use it here as well: I hate peas. I don't just dislike them, just saying the word just now made me feel queasy. If I actually see them, anywhere, I get sick to my stomach.

However, I do not go onto 'pro-pea' fansites and tell them they have no taste what-so-ever for liking peas, because that's not only a waste of my time and energy, but is also 'being a troll'.

So yes, I have discovered a few posts here that still contain vitriol (after 3 years? C'mon! let it go!), but this is a PF fansite, so why bother trying to evangelize other formats?

And BTW, my problem was never with the 4e rules. I didn't consider them bad, they just weren't for me. My problem has always been with the complete de-construction of the Forgotten Realms setting, which I had high hopes would be fixed in 5e (which would be a godsend to me, since I recently lost 35 years of gaming goodness). After seeing who'd be working on 5e FR, I decided to take another long, hard look at Golarion. I plan to be spending a lot of money very soon, and I want to make an educated choice.

Not that I found Golarion 'wanting' the first time I looked at it - quite the contrary. Its just that I already owned everything I needed in FR; I was heavily invested. This is no longer the case (except emotionally).

Because you started this thread hostile toward this modular format, which would allow 'weekend gamers' to play alongside 'hardcore' gamers - something that has been difficult in the past.

@Aubrey the Malformed - I assume the DM will have to be the one who "knows all the rules", which is nothing different then we've had before. I also assume the the core system will be very basic (those basic rules non-invested gamers can use), and everything after that will be 'options' (similar to later 2e, but hopefully MUCH more consistent).

The tricky part will be to get everyone within a single playing group to agree to what to use, and what not to use - but once again, how is this any different then what I have experienced for the past 35+ years? Also, the choices made do not have to be universal - if 'Sam' just wants to use the 'Stealth stat' for his ability rolls, thats fine, but 'Suzy' might want the more complex system of individual skills for each ability for her Rogue. The only problem I see is people switching back-and-forth in order to get the best result, but we've always had min-maxers and its something that comes with the game, and something DMs have to learn to deal with.

Folks can use the "DM has final say" old-school method whilst deciding this, or the newer 'democractic' method of mutual consent (take a vote). I'm personally 'old school', but as I get younger (and newer) players in my groups, I find that they expect to have a say, which is fine. Everyone needs to change with the times... even the grognards.

The 'scabs' comment was definitely over-the-top. :(

Diffan, from your posts here and elsewhere, from all appearances you are anti-choice, if anything. You seem to be taking a stance that everyone should be playing at the same exact level of complexity. Why force anyone to do anything?

I think its great what they are trying to do, and if Monte Cook (who I respect very much) can pull it off, he should be sainted. A system like that would be amazing. Anything that improves our shared hobby in any way is great, and innovation should never be rejected just because you are a fan of something else.

If their concept works, and is popular, Paizo can then take it and apply it to PF/OGL - its a win-win.

Thanks for the info guys - I'm still fence-sitting for a tad bit longer (waiting on an insurance check to replace my gaming goodies), but I think the interaction here has actually given me more insight then the info.

From all appearances, whilst the non-4e crowd has dialed back their vitriol (pity?), the pro-4e crowd is still going strong with the edition war.

Well, the war is over. At lest the last one is - why continue to rage? I don't go over to the WotC site anymore because why should I be the mean kid kicking sand in everyone's face? Thats not productive for anyone. When 5e comes out, make an educated decision on what rules suit you best, and go with that. There is no need to be angry at the people who didn't agree with you.

So thus far, the world has been fairly static - the sources are all supposed to 'reporting' from pretty-much the same time-period?

Thats very interesting. I hadn't even considered that as an option, especially for such a prolific setting as Golarion.

Very interesting indeed.

Is there an actual date the setting is started at? I have to assume this sequel will have to give a new date, correct? And the setting will have officially moved forward as whole?

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this - the AP's have absolutely no interaction? So the 'order' of events doesn't matter, then? Do they simply not date the events in the AP's?

Although I'm really liking this, I do see it hitting an eventual wall. Sooner or later, timelines will have to be made official - or have they stated they will never do this?

I know this all seems off-topic, but for me, its not. I haven't been active on this site in over 2 years, and I am in situation ATM where I need to replace ALL of my gaming stuff, so its definitely decision making time. Up 'till now, my old stuff was all I needed (I bought one PF product and one 4e product, and had decided to stick with my 3.5 FR).

I appreciate the feedback.

The 5e announcement has forced me to finally 'jump off the fence'. I haven't played in 3 years, and I've obviously waited long enough.

Help me with this. How does Pathfinder/Golarion handle moving the timeline forward?

Just coming back to PF after a prolonged hiatus, and I have to say this is the first I am hearing about PF online, and am very excited by the prospect.

I just wanted to add I do not like non-consensual PvP. I played a lot of WoW back in the day, and tried a PvP server only once. I recall getting to certain point (lev.12?), and couldn't go any further because I had entered a full-time PvP area and couldn't get any quests done, because there was a lev.60 Orc hiding under the water in a lake, shooting everyone at long range walking around the town. After that frustrating experience, I never tried (involuntary) PvP again.

I do not begrudge anyone who enjoys it - both my sons do, immensely - but its not for everyone, and I hope they accommodate those of us who don't.

Flumphs: No... just NO.

I think they and the Umpleby should go join that poker game the dogs are playing, and stay the hell out of RPGing.

I haven't been on these boards in awhile, but when I saw the video for this product posted over at Candlekeep, I just had to chime in.

It looks awesome! I can't wait to pick this up and start using it. Thanks for keeping the dream alive, Paizo-peeps.

P.S. - I have also re-posted the link to the video several times over on other sites... a little free-advertising never hurt. ;)

Unfortunately, while my maps have become popular with some folks, the style is a complete copy of that used in the Forgotten Realms in 3rd edition, which makes it inappropriate for most other settings. The finished one are mostly available over at Candlekeep.Com (in the Maproom), but my WIPs can be viewed at my DeviantART page. The best example of what I can do is probably the one I did of Returned Abeir (4th edition).

I built my own set of brushes and textures using the official maps owned by WotC, and also created my own set of vector graphics for the symbols, ALL with Photoshop.

They look pretty damn good, but they are just 'countrfeits' of the real 3e maps, so I need to develop my own style eventually if I ever want to make money at it.

Anyhow, everything I know about using Photoshop and making Fantasy maps comes for This Guy, and his videos - Fantasy Cartography - are all available on YouTube, and I HIGHLY recommend them.

Golarion will continue to receive 3e support, whereas FR will not.

You can either live with the amazing quantity of old FR lore and continue to run your games that way, or you can switch to Golarion and watch the world grow around you.

As for the kinds of adventures you can have there - both worlds are capable of supporting just about anything a DM wants to do, and are certainly large enough to do so.

Ergo, your decision should be based on weather you love FR enough to live in the past, or you are willing to give up one 'love' for something new that will continue to surprise for years to come. Both have their merits, so its a matter of personal choice - NOT what kind of game you can run.

Hvaen't you heard?

Gleemax was cancelled!!!

It Bombed. :D

And yes... it was affecting my sanity, which is why I never went over to that nauseating end of the site. The FR forums remained looking like 'old parchment', which I like (better then hospital white, which makes me feel like I'm in a sanitarium when I'm here).

Honestly, some people seem hellbent on taking 1 on their Wisdom checks…

<shakes head in disbelief>

You're lucky this isn't the WotC forumes...

Personal attacks are against the COC over there. ;)

Not that I'd report you, but Sanishiver certanly would - he seems to have appointed himself the Internet police.

Glad he hasn't found the last few sites I post on yet... Stalkers... Sheeeeesh.

Speaking of which, you guys have my resume.

Paizo's taking Resumes?

I was the Head of the Warehouse for a small game company (FGU) years ago!

And by 'Warehouse', I mean a small table in the back of the storefront, and by 'head' I mean I was the only employee...

But I can shrink-wrap with the best of them! And nobody stuffs merchandise in a styrofoam-peanut filled box quite like me.

I can even lick mailing labels... took me years to get that taste out of my mouth....

First off, I just want to say I posted this thread more or less tongue-in-cheek.

My banning was only for 24 hours, and I just wanted to create a "The evil corporation beat me up and stole my tricycle" thread. :D

I never said I didn't deserve what they did, and in fact, have even pointed out on other sites that I can't figure out why I haven't been banned sooner.

And as far as that cover goes - I'm a PS wiz and I have done FAR WORSE things with their covers and posted them there, and they never bothered me. In fact, they (the people at WotC) know that I'm usually doing it for humorous reasons, sort of like a 'Celebrity Roast' sort of thing. Occassionally I have gone too far (maybe more then occassionally), and I usually just receive a stern warning, or a PM from one of the Designers saying "WTF?!", and I usually apologize when I know I've gone 'over-the-top'.

I also usually target a specific person for a few weeks, and I recenly changed my target, so that may have something to do with it (some people just don't have as good a sense of humor as others).

But I don't think even that finally did it - I think its because I accused them of being racist, and they managed to flip it on me. Until I get back on and see what they deleted, I can't be sure, but I think that was it.

On the other hand, a few people have told me they deleted ALL my posts, but I doubt that is true - they probably just deleted whatever I said in the last 48 hours.

Like I said, I was going for humor here as well, with the whole 'Evil Empire' thing - sorry if anyone thought I was upset for real.

AS for the FRCG - I didn't actually have it when I made my statements. Everything I was saying was based on stuff others were reporting. Laughingly enough, someone gave me an early BD present this morning, and it turned out to be the 4e FRCG!!!

And to be perfectlly honest, its not as bad as people are making out. Its not great (it does have a lot of contradictory information), but it isn't terrible either. If you are going to be playing with 4e rules, then I would reccomend it. If you are just a fan of the setting, then I would have a tough time doing so, since the setting is vastly different in this edition. My main problem is with the very ugly map, which is FULL of mistakes, but the book itself is okay, if less then steller.

I haven't bought a WotC product in a couple of years, unless you count the novels, and the old-edition pdfs I purchase hear at Paizo.

Well... they won't have ME to kick around anymore.

At least... until my banning wears off. :P

Damn shame - WotC laying off their best communicator right in the middle of a PR nightmare.

While I feel bad for anyone who loses their job, I do think she will be better off in the long run.

Thats a sinking ship over there.

Okay, the book is a peace of useless defecation and the map looks like regurgitated stomach fluids.

Anyway, this isn't about WotC's inability to produce quality products, its about their unfairness towrds me!

Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

;)

So, after hearing all about the horrible Forgotten Realms CG that came out two days ago, me and some other posters over at WotC have been picking the thing apart, and listing all the mistakes (like one on every page). The thing reads like a half-baked, unfinished piece of crap, and the Map looks like vomit.

And I made that opinion known.

So now I go to log on over there, and I get a message saying I've been banned.

You want to know the funny part? The message included a link that would allow me to see the reason I was banned, but when I click on it, it tells me I can't view the page because I've been banned!

Too funny :D

I suppose they finally decided to get rid of all the 4e-detractors from their site... I guess it was about time.

I could think of a few times when 'swallow' may have come in handy...

Why not Float? And Slither? And Bounce?

Would 'float' cover beholders? Or would we need a seperate one for 'hover'?

I think we need 'Moonwalk', so we can break it down old-school, MJ style. :D

And just think how confused the Orcs would be...

Stygia.

What? Stygia is RW, ain't it?

Seriously - this pic writes its own jokes.

Congratulations - I've been singing you guys praises for awhile now, and I'm glad I have some 'proof' to back up my claims now.

The Fans have spoken. :D

I don't really know one faction from another, but I know I like this.

Choosing a faction by how cool its logo is is as good a method as any. :D

No offense, but I wouldn't wear that on patrol in Iraq... it looks like a sniper's crosshairs.

Continue to support 3.0/3.5 with your established customer base for established product lines, but also develop new 4.0 lines for the new version of D&D.

Impossible, in accordance to WotC's own rules.

You may NOT develop for both.

I think by forcing people to choose, they may have made a drastic tactical error.

Yeah... I hate it when someone quotes me, and I spot all my errors, and then can't even go back and fix them.

I got this awhile ago when it was available elsewhere - and I've been recommending it highly anytime someone asks about 'Greek Rules'.

No jokes, please. ;)

It would be fun to smash with a hammer. :D

The bottom line:

They new what THEY wanted for a 4e world. They also wanted to use the FR fanbase (being that most of the designers make side-money from writing FR novels).

They decided to take FR, and completely change it so that it matched the new world concept they had for 4e. I have to think they assumed FR fans were idiots, and that we would think this 'other world' was the Realms. They even went so far as to change the history and the name of the planet ('breaking' the name in half, to imply it is two seperate worlds that have now re-merged).

Besides the fact that they created an entirely new setting and are trying to pass it off as FR, the new setting is really just re-hashed generic fantasy fare, so it doesn't really jump out and grab new players either. They destroyed the existing fan-base and didn't even create something interesting enough to replace it (obviously saving their best ideas for their novels, and using all the crap for their 'day job').

Add to that that they took out ALL powerful female characters (silly women... thinking they could come out of the kitchen that way), and took the advanced black culture that was in Chult (Mezro) and destroyed it, turning the clock back so that they are all now half-nakit savage spear-chuckers (some of which practice cannibalism) running around the jungles shouting "Unga Bunga!".

This looks like something created in 1978, not 2008. WotC has single-handedly brought RPG gaming back to the Stoneage, when minority groups new their place.

Kudos, WotC, from nuking a half-century of cultural advancement and returning us to a more ignorant time.

Rant Over.

The spellplague, from my understanding, was caused by one goddess being killed. The Time of Troubles was when Ao kicked all the gods out of their homes and into the material plane world, where several died. Which one comes across as "more universal"?

They are using this setting-specific event to explain their new cosmology - a cosmology that spans EVERY setting they plan to re-visit (and god help Eberron).

In other words, what happened on Toril, didn't neccessarily STAY on Toril - the entire D&D multiverse was effected by the death of a single FR goddess. "The planes themselves re-aligned with her death".

That is why this is looking like a VERY uncreative attempt to re-write D&D, and take the game further away from what giants like Gygax and Greenwood had spent so many years perfecting.

I was going to play 3PF and Golarion when all the books come out, and had decided to go that way a few months back.

I've been an FR DM almost since the beginning (and GH before that), and I have been in love with the setting ever since the original Grey Box.

As I heard more and more about the 'New Realms', I felt nothing but disgust, and was sure Golarion was right for me. Then something incredible happened...

A bunch of my fan-created material for FR became canon! Locations and names I made up on one of my maps were all added in to the official world by WotC in an article on Cormyr. I was floored, to say the least.

Anyhow, I felt that I could no longer bad-mouth 4e FR without at least giving it a shot, and I haven't really been coming around here anymore.

Then they released two more Preview articles yesterday and today, and I realized that I allowed my ego to cloud my judgment. Yesterday's article supposedly was written by Ed (and one other), but he has either lost his touch, or they editted his contributions into watered-down crap. As soon as I came to the word 'Dragonborn' I had to stop reading.

And todays excerpt talks about how the Harpers were disbanded - the very last thing that set FR apart from any other generic fantasy schlock. I felt like Tommy Lee Jones in Coal Miner's Daughter -

"There's nothing for me here anymore, Loretty, septin' a chest full of coal dust and bein' an ol' man by the time I'm forty"

Well, I'm 45, so I guess I stuck around too long.

Now I'm back here to see whats what, because I can't stomache the one and only setting currently available for 4e.

I do all of my maps in Photoshop - it gives them a less generic look.

I get jealous sometimes looking at the pretty maps that programs like CC3 can make, but then I think "hey, anyone with enough money to pay for that can make those".

They use Robert Lazzaretti. :)

In my opinion, Rob is quickly becoming the Wayne Reynolds of the mapping world. I love his maps and so do a lot of people.

I became a fan of his when I first saw his work in WotC's Map Folio products - Beautiful attention to detail.

Not like those horrendous 'satelite images' that WotC has in their FRCG book coming out soon - I vomit everytime I see one of the excerpts.

I think its time for me to re-tool my texture set in PS to the PF style. :D