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Leonard Kriegler

Mark Hoover's page

4,735 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Comic book Creel spent a lot of time in the company of a prisoner's ball and chain. Said ball and chain was magically transformed into a substance of Asgardian level power. Whenever he needed a pick-me-up he grabbed his weapon. Add to that the fact that he wasn't very bright and yeah, I can see him not walking around with a diamond in his pocket.

In the show? See: Rynjinn's last post

Slick Willy Hair-bomb is banned for not knowing: Hoovers Suck! (get it; Hoover vacuum? Humor is lost on the irisless...)

Well ok, but I sewed the win into the rear of my swim trunks.

Last night's game was fun. It's a homebrew. The PCs:

Defina - CG human female inquisitor (Iomedae)3
Tami - NG half-elf female fighter 3
Micah - NG Halfling male sorcerer (faerie dragon bloodline)3
Viorec - CG human ranger (dungeon delver)3

So the adventure is simple: go into a dungeon, map it out, and recover specific religious items there. The party is 5 rooms into a section of the dungeon populated by mites (with 2 levels of warrior added) and giant centipedes. They come to the final boss fight of this section to find 2 mite warrior 2 guards riding giant centipedes, a mite witch 2 and a centipede swarm.

The bad guys are pretty high in the initiatives so the PCs are caught in a hallway blocked by the guards and their mounts. The witch had previously commanded the swarm to advance on the trespassers so she hexes Defina to sleep. Things look bad; the swarm is creeping up, the guards have the group pinned and one PC is down. Up steps Micah and Tami.

The half-elf surges in, risking an AoO and power attacks/cleaves through one guard and into the mount below him. Tami hit so hard that both of them are incapacitated and dying. The sorcerer meanwhile breathes his breath weapon: a cloud of Euphoria Gas. This sickens and staggers the other mount. The rider ordered the centipede to retreat so Tami leaps in with her own AoO and hits that mount's rider hard enough to knock him to exactly zero HP. So with its unconscious rider on its back the centipede skitters, capering, along the walls, it's antennae waving as if dancing.

The witch attempts and Undine's Curse spell on the slumbering inquisitor but she resists. In comes the swarm and starts devouring the party. Then out of nowhere the ranger comes in with Vermin Affinity. He decides he wants to try and push the centipede swarm back on the witch. I ask for a contested roll and he 20's. The ranger, with a full-round begins willing the swarm back!

Not to be outdone Tami executes a miraculous vaulting cartwheel out of the swarm's area hurling a vial of alchemist's fire on them as she goes. The Halfling similarly drops another vial of the stuff even as it's turning toward the witch. Horrified the witch attempts to retreat while trying her own contested roll against the ranger and failing. The swarm eventually overwhelms her and she is consumed by her own most powerful "minion."

There's only one dangling thread left: what happened to the rider who got slashed across the eye but didn't die? Time will tell...

Granny Ray Ray is banned because it's been too darn long since I haven't seen them!

Ok... let's go dumpster diving
*goes after otyugh with flippers, mask and snorkel*

Hitdice wrote:
Gnomezrule wrote:

LOL the chart was actually at the vets office. My point was people are applying a ration to maturation when nothing like a straight ratio actually is scientifically accurate. I was trying (unsuccessfully) to point out that the working 7 to 1 ration for dogs isn't really accurate so using an analogous ration for humans to elves might make it easy to understand but not terribly realistic.

As for what PF supports the only thing that I have found RAW is starting adventuring age. I looked through the PF elves book very little is said about how they grow up.

I am extremely sympathetic to the argument if they spent 60 years in school they should have higher skills but what I was hoping to express is that I think the starting ages where an attempt to point to the general age or earliest age you could expect to meet an adventuring elf.

Oh, right, a chart that wasn't in an RPG book; I would have thought of that eventually. :P

I think you're right about the starting ages. It seems like this topic gets a new thread every three to four months, but no one worries about what the dwarf clerics were doing for the first seventy years of their lives when a human starts at twenty-seven. Don't ask me.

They were stoned. Get it? 'Cuz they're dwarves?


Whatevs. This topic will never be resolved.

Happy Birthday Pan-the-Man-the-Dirty-Can! Unfortunately I've got a weird day Saturday: the wife's company party til 2pm then my own home game from 3pm - ??

Have a great one. Hopefully the games go your way tomorrow!

The tarmac had a chip from a woman's engagement ring mixed in it. Add this to the fact that the Marvel Super Heroes game from 1985 suggests that when Absorbing Man absorbs a material he gains Strength and Body Armor equal to the substance he's absorbing. Also it goes on to say that he can absorb energy as well. I posit that the diamond/asphalt mix was stronger than normal tarmac giving him better than average properties for absorbing the road's surface coupled with a spontaneous absorbtion and redirection of the force of the car at the moment of impact caused the scene we witnessed in the show.

There are fields Neo; vast fields. Elves are no longer born... they are GROWN.

Could be that elves ripen like fruit. Not figuratively but literally. They are drawn to nature because they grow as part of the local flora for roughly 100 years at which point they go through a metamorphosis from Plant to Humanoid creature type.

In human societies there are groves or stands or woodlots or parks or fungal patches or gardens or whatever that house developing elves. These humanoids stumble out naked into society and without elven guidance are generally confused and isolated. Their natural proclivity towards dexterity and intelligence coupled with a general physical frailty due to a weakened constitution in relation to human counterparts ensures that most other races either kill them outright as weak monsters or take them in out of pity.

Otherwise I like the "they only have one child every hundred years" thing.

RDM42 wrote:
So for more than a hundred years, all they think about is sex and food?

I thought we said elves AREN'T like humans?

Marvel has a long and glorious tradition of ignoring science or inventing their own. Stan Lee in an interview once about the Fantastic Four uttered a phrase that's stuck with me my whole life: "I know nothing of science." Gamma bombs, cosmic rays, radioactive spider bites, these things MUST be accepted to have the Marvel universe.

One time in a comic book I saw Colossus leap in front of a speeding truck and PUNCH it in the engine block. The vehicle "THOOMED" around him and he was completely unmoved by the impact, the force of the explosion, or anything. He didn't even lose his pants. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if you're watching Agents of Shield hoping for sciency bits, its likely you'll be disappointed.

I loved it. All of it. The sorrow, the down notes, the rough start and the

willingness to do it all for a Quinjet
. I just hope that Coulson remains the one point of light and humor in all this. He has been the one thing in the show that seemed the most human; everyone else in the first season was a stereotype or a drama queen or whatever. But Coulson was the leader who didn't have all the answers; the guy that was willing to throw humor along with grenades; the dude who freaked out on the doorstep of the secret base. I LIKE that guy and I tune in for him. If he gets too hard and dark, the show might be over quick for me.

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I don't know how to defend or refute a lot of the stuff going on in this thread. One thought occurred to me though. There are 35 core skills; 21 of these are Int and Dex based. Of these 21, 7 can be used untrained, one of which is Craft which has a number of different permutations. When an elf begins play at level 1 they have a +2 to Int and Dex. This means, on top of the basic stat bonuses they also get one extra skill rank to start and one extra language.

What if, on top of maturing a little slower than a human, they are trying lots of different untrained skills. Not sitting and focusing on them mind you (not a ton of skill ranks piling up) but one day they try Craft: basketweaving; the next couple days they try their hand at acrobatics; for the next week they alternate between watching grass grow and attempting to appraise old tapestries in the great hall.

After 100 years they've only managed to master a few ranks worth of skills, but they've actually attempted every kind acrobatic move, appraisal, craft, escape trick, flying, riding any kind of animal they could mount up on, practiced stealth in any situation imaginable and mastered a second language.

They've also practiced with short and long bows, rapiers and longswords, elven curve blades (maybe they're not proficient but they've messed with one a bit so it's martial instead of exotic) and they've studied the very basics of magic properties on items (+2 to identify properties with Spellcraft). They've also honed their senses. Not just one or 2 but ALL FIVE senses to acct for their +2 Perception.

Elves at 1st level are jacks (or jills) of all trades but masters of only, say, one or 2.

Another explanation would be a racial ADHD that they learn to finally cope with and work around by, say, age 90.

The ram's duration is "instantaneous." How long then does the Confusion effect from a head shot last? The spell states that they get a will save to end the effect; does this mean they just keep attempting the save until they make it?

Oh, you mean this?

Randy is banned for not reading the report I left on his desk


Thanks for getting rid of that doppleganger

Glad to have your UNDIVIDED attention

Poog is banned for fleeing the scene

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195. A bard walked in, cast darkness then called out "LET'S GET READY TO RUMMMBLLEEE!!!" accompanied by a frenzied techno beat.

196. Your favorite armor was stained by Dragonsblood cabernet; a red wine that never comes out no matter how many Prestidigitations you cast.

197. Because: Tuesday

198. When you caught the gnomes with the scrying/recording lenses looking up your skirt they claimed it was for research.

199. The bell rang

200. Everybody was Kung Fu Fighting

185. A young man stands at a table, attempting to woo the woman of his dreams. Just as he delivers his best line a burly man enters the bar and calls the wooer out by name "Hey X, I thought I told you never to come in here again. Now it's gonna cost you..." Problem is; the pcs NEED the young man and his paramour to get together...

Ok, so...

The First World is so called because it's the blueprint the gods used for the Prime right? Also some fluff in one of the books said that fey are merely spirits and they're eternal on their home turf of the First World. So from that I've ruled this: summoned creatures come from the First World.

The spirit-stuff of that place (plane? world? other?) is drawn out by the spell and given form as dictated by the summoner. As the spirit materializes and the form is dictated the nature of the Prime causes the spirit to assume the form of that creature as readily accepted by the Prime. A riding dog generally looks like X, so when a spirit is summoned and dictated to be a riding dog the Prime frames the creature to look like that.

Templates are a tad harder to explain. My theory is that the summoner siphons off a bit of the planar power from a plane corresponding to the template. A Celestial Hawk then is a First World spirit occupying the form of a hawk with a very careful, pin-prick sized siphon drawing an array of powers from a Celestial plane. This is not to say the deity(ies) native to that plane, just the plane itself.

This helped me explain to a player how, when the creature appears it always looks the same and what happens to it if the summoned monster is slain. If it IS slain, the spirit-stuff merely returns to the First World and is reborn eternal.

When you start getting into the sentient beings from other planes (elementals, mephits, demons, etc) I suppose you're literally drawing those creatures from the very planes they inhabit. I'm sure they're ticked off and I suppose that's why you need other spells to bind them more permanently and protect yourself from their retributions and such. I suppose in the case of those creatures you could also explain that they are drawn directly from the plane itself and did not exist in this form before the time of the summoning. Post-summons then the stuff of them returns to their native plane none the wiser.

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Y'know the ones I never understood? Dwarves.

Look at the OP. Dwarves are fairly long-lived and take 5 decades to hit 1st level. Unlike Elves or Gnomes however dwarves are depicted, at least by the fluff, racial bonuses and Golarion-specific religious focus as being studious, hard-working crafting types. Are they spending 2 decades just mastering how to hold a hammer or looking at rocks?

For all these races, I favor a more mystic approach. They actually live several lives. They are not Time Lords; they do not regenerate. They mature and go off on their first life adventure, or their second or what have you. Some die on these; they are not PCs. Others accumulate miraculous success transcending their race; these are not PCs either.

PC characters are elves, dwarves and gnomes who fall into the average for their races. They have 2, 3, 4, maybe even 5 lifetimes worth of experiences, each time going to some central repository and downloading these into a collective consciousness. Each time they retain maybe a fraction of their knowledge. By the time they are being played as a PC they are off on another whirlwind adventure at the end of which they will either die or be allowed to continue on. They have reached an age where their mental maturity is able to deal with the extreme length of their lifespan.

If this process wasn't followed by the "Elder Races" they would be teenagers with MASSIVE amounts of levels. Imagine if the races learned at the same pace. You could have an elf with the mental maturity of a 10 year old and 20 levels even of an NPC class. I'm just imagining one of my daughters with 20 levels of Adept: "Why'd you call me a name you Jerkhead! YOU'RE A TOAD!"

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Sissyl wrote:
Elven children are morons. So bad they can't be potty trained for decades. It is... An undertaking. Usually, elven children are stored in what is affectionately called 'moron cocoons', cocoons of plant matter and magic that hang from large trees. When the kids finally grow a brain at about a century of age, they are released from the cocoons.

I've seen this posted before, probably by you, and it's always hilarious. Thanks!

Pan wrote:
I saw J.Roddy Walston and the biz in a small club here in Minneapolis on Monday. Shockingly expensive taps! 12oz 7 dollars I only had one then retreated after the show to a pub down the street. Summit oatmeal stout on tap 16oz for 3 bucks. Oh club jagger what a life saver.

Y'know what Pan? You're fired. You brag about seeing such an awesome show and hitting a nice bar afterwards and don't even have the decency to throw out a PM invite or nothin? I'm not sayin I'm just sayin; I wasn't doin anything Thursday night...

Honestly though I'm just jealous. Glad you had fun and found a decent tap. Most places, even in the burbs are insane for tap beer. A pub near my house in Plymouth: $5 for 2 Surly Hell for happy hour, but then it shoots up to $6 a mug! Seriously?

You've watched this win for me long enough

Dr Giggles

He Who Should Not Be Gnomed

Excelsior. Nuff said.

The P of Z is banned for egregious use of " "


Captain Meow Mix is banned for not protecting me from the trolls in my walls just because I'm not a Barrymore

No no, get out of the way bard. I want to see what Schism did there. Nice...

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Succubus in a Grapple wrote:

Oh, it feels so wonderful to be so appreciated.

Hugs for everyone!

I'm part of everyone

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Yay for Donna again! I'm sure she had such a short run on the show because Catherine Tate seems to be quite a powerful actress in England (I see episodes of her own show online) but I really wish she could've gone on. Seriously the character of Donna Noble had it all; human frailty, obnoxious behavior to cover it up, and the willingness to fight even with the Doctor when she thought she could do more.

Rose and Martha might've quibbled with the Doctor but when he put his foot down they just sort of resigned to doing what he said. One was in love with him, the other had puppy love for him. But Donna was a companion without being a submissive.

And her story arcs were heartbreaking! Listening to the song of the Ood just to beg for it to stop; having an entire imaginary family only to have it ripped away; missing the man LITERALLY of her dreams as she left the library. And then to end it all by saving everyone and getting to remember NONE of it. That is really tough stuff.

Rose would've crumbled. Martha wouldn't have connected with any of it in the first place. It took Donna, the perpetual temp that everyone underestimated or avoided, to pull off all that. And it took Catherine Tate to make it look that good. Oh, and also she's really pretty.

Not me

I have a couple high-level bandits in my homebrew. They are called "Baron Havrek" and "Doombringer, the Ancient Red Dragon." Seriously if you want to get higher than, say 5th level with bandits you need to expand on how the bandits are robbing people.

The dragon does it by existing. The mere threat of it's attacks are enough to compel several farmsteads and villages to deliver a tithe to the town of Felenvar and the town then delivers this to the dragon. Sometimes the creature just gets bored waiting and swoops down into another part of Rukenval and blows up a castle or village to swipe more swag and prove to Felenvar he means business.

Baron Havrek meanwhile does it through a team of three corrupt sheriffs who in turn have brute squads (yes, stolen from THAT movie) with them. It works kind of like the mob. The baron pretends to be all nice and says the villages under his rule must pay a bit extra than their neighbors, since they have all these humanoids and monsters in the area and the baron is hard at work protecting the common folk. The sheriffs and their men go around collecting and pretending to keep the region safe. If someone comes up short the law roughs them up for the cash; if that doesn't work then humanoids miraculously appear to motivate the community as a whole to make up the shortfall. Of course many of these monsters are on the baron's payroll, but the commoners don't need to know that.

Bandits can be a general term for anyone who takes from others in some way instead of earning their own. In this definition most PCs are bandits. They just tend to be Robin Hood types who are defeating evil and injustice at the same time as they are stealing from others.

I don't have a problem with the d20 or the math it invokes. That being said I played diceless as a kid. Not a diceless system like Amber but literally just sitting around with my brother and a friend and taking turns telling stories with turn-based conflict resolution.

I've also sat in on game sessions where conflict was resolved with a coin toss. We've used rock-paper-scissors, a single d6 and even one time whoever could light the zippo on the first try with their leg.

Honestly I don't want to reinvent the wheel anymore. D20's provide a fine backdrop for the math of the current version. With bonuses being tacked on there are some instances where you can basically ignore the thing unless you roll a 1; a 5% chance of failure.

I got to thinking about something last night. There's lots of stories where the hero buys an item from a magic shop. Now usually these items carry some kind of catch or curse but that ends up being the hook of the story. In Brave for example Meridah has to buy a potion from a witch (along with hundreds of wood figurines!) but the potion doesn't work EXACTLY as she'd hoped.

That got me thinking though: if there are NPC crafters with item crafting feats in a gameworld, why WOULDN'T they sell their wares? This is their greatest means of income.

Or look at it from another angle. There's no crafters but there are magic items. An old adventurer found a +1 sword in his youth, retired and now has a family. Unfortunately his health is declining, his farm is riddled with blight and his kids are untrained farmers with few prospects in this pseudo-feudal world. If he sold his old sword that would pay for... everything.

I guess I'm just having a hard time wrapping my mind around why NPCs wouldn't sell their items in the first place. The only thing I could come up with was something terrible like demons roam the streets. If I had a +1 blade and evil outsiders were constantly harassing me heck yeah I'd hold onto this thing!

Finally one last thing to think about. If you can't buy magic items, then what about renting spellcasters? Seriously, if your players came to you and said that because they can't have an item buffing them 24/7 on their adventures they're going to look around for a hedge mage to hire on retainer and bring with them to the dungeon. Said hireling would then cast the spells on them needed for their survival and they would pay the hireling a bit now and more once they've acquired more loot. All of that is entirely in the rules and wouldn't require creating a new mechanic to do away with the "big 6" or whatever. Or would that again detract from the wonder of magic?

Fallen angel turned human? Castiel is nice. Also Seth if you look like Nick Cage.

I use Hexographer as well but would love a simple point & stamp kind of mapper

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@ lucky strike: Well that brings me back to the other point I suggested upthread - maybe if you're looking for magic = special then don't have spells. When people know exactly what the definition and variables are on a "Fireball" spell then handing them a necklace of them isn't going to be exciting. Now imaging a game where you literally have no insight into magic spells at all and your GM gives your caster "a small, bulbous flask which, when thrown explodes and amazing ball of flame!" The PCs still don't know how much damage it'll do or anything.

Would that enhance the magic and make it special? I polled my players and 2 of them didn't care. One said it would be like getting an alien laser pistol but not knowing it was an alien laser pistol and so you end up calling it a Sunray Wand or something. The last player of the 4 just said that sounded annoying.

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For folks that say magic items = rare and precious why not just houserule: no magic items can be bought, period? I'm not being snarky it's an honest question. Sure there are still crafting feats out there and everyone's free to craft on their own but literally no one in the entire game world will sell them, not even the consumables. The only way magic items then change hands are by gift or force.

If the PCs want to start off at first level with a potion of Cure Light Wounds they either need to have the crafting feat or have done a special favor for a church/witch/bard etc. When they hit 2nd and they want a wand, they have to go on a quest for that crafting entity or have earned their trust already. At third level the greatsword wielder better either be happy with the +1 hand axe they found in the loot pile or he better be willing to go on another side quest.

Rather than make a bullet pointed list of how they buy items or where or whatever, just remove buying. I know my own players have said they don't enjoy side questing for specific items but maybe yours will and that will make them so much more precious yes?

Really T? a "Raping Mauler?" Haven't you noticed how subtle everyone is in this thread? Get it together man! Decorum!

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I think I'm in Lemmy's boat here. If you don't like talking but wanna play the "face", go for it. If you're not as strong as, say, most houseplants and you want to play Ahnold from Conan, that sounds awesome.

The only time I get cheesed off is when a person uses mechanics and CALLS it roleplaying. Stated another way, I don't enjoy passive players.

Roleplaying to me is an active experience. If you enter a dungeon don't wait to be attacked or caught by a trap to start interacting with the environment; when you enter a town don't wait until the guard harasses you before you ask for directions. Get involved. Play your character; literally play your role.

In respect to this thread then that means explain how, or at least why, you're using a skill. Don't just wait til someone comes up to you and go "I use diplomacy. 25; what info do I get?" That's my opinion though and others' most certainly will vary.


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Simon Legrande wrote:
DungeonmasterCal wrote:
I've run both, and I much prefer the heroic gaming style. I love the reckless, daring acts, the close calls, the edge of your seat brushes with death. Man, that's fun stuff.

To me, that's the whole point of playing. I want to be a heroic hero who takes crazy heroic risks. I have a house, kids, a job, and bills in real life, I game to escape from that for a while.

I will say this though, having ADD can make ignoring the asides and OT conversations incredibly difficult sometimes. I'm one of those people that takes a bit to get focused, but once I do I'm good to go. Sometimes it's really easy to get knocked out of that focus and off into la-la land.

I think this is how I feel about darker-themed games. I add horror elements in my games and sometimes the heroes lose but overall I tend to stay away from the completely dour game. IRL I've dealt with some truly dark stuff, family issues, death and loss of a very personal nature. I lose as many life-conflicts as I win.

When I game I'm looking to escape that for a time. I actively pursue a game where fantastic things happen, heroes get rewarded and doing the right thing works out.

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Y'know what I think makes magic so dang commonplace where players lose their sense of wonder? Spellcasters.

Seriously. All the magic shops in the world can't compete with a guy, in the party all the time, who with the right spell selection can do nearly anything everyone else can do and at least once/day win just about any fight.

Also think about it. Even if you sold items to the party without spellcasters you could describe ANY effect they perform and it would seem amazing. "This blade is forever sharp, clean and pure. What's more it traps even the most miniscule motes of light from the deepest shadow and amplifies them so that it always glows from within!" Then the wizard steps up and goes "Prestidigitation and light? Big whup."

Not having magic items being sold because it breaks player immersion or engagement or verisimilitude or whatever the right phrase here is just does not compute for me. If we want wonder at the power of magic then it can't be codified, quantified or even identified. Once it is, it's not wonderful anymore. Amazingly any spellcasting class, even bards, do this instantly just by existing.

Anyway sorry again for the rant. Really, I'm sorry.

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Earwings is banned for overuse of dramatic lighting

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