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Leonard Kriegler

Mark Hoover's page

4,512 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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As you wander through the streets you come upon

1. a small crowd gathered around 2 performers. One is a grippili dressed in tights and a rope-tied tabard balancing on a thread between two posts, all the while carrying stacks of balls on pins with his hands and face. The other is a Halfling dancing and twirling on a wide bench with flaming batons.

2. several children kicking a leather ball through a side street. An errant kick has sent the sphere hurtling toward (select random character) and it smacks into your side. The throng of boys and girls look after it imploringly, frozen with fear.

3. a side alley where you hear muffled words angrily delivered. The easement is shrouded in darkness. (Perception DC 10 reveals) a dozen or so feet down the alleyway a pair of burly men have a smaller, aproned laborer pinned against a wall off his feet. (The toughs [APL -1 NPC encounter] are shaking down a local apple vendor for protection money)

Experiences of the city

1. Graffiti on a nearby wall proclaims that "Nunzio wuz here"
2. A plump old woman pushes a rickety wooden cart with steaming pies wafting savory smells from within
3. Jeers and catcalls can be heard as a particularly comely elven woman strolls along the street, her clothing more scandalous than the common fare
4. Mud and worse squishes underfoot as you cross a narrow lane
5. A gnome sits on his stoop carving an impish figure in clay; several more, seemingly alive, hover at attention on bat-like wings

I popped into this thread for a delightful discussion on the non-damage cantrips to see what they could do. Why doesn't anyone make threads about Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound or Prestidigitation anymore?

There's 2 bloodlines that let you add damage to a specific energy type. There's also flasks. Couldn't you be crossblooded sorcerer/admixture evocation specialist wizard with a flask and the feats Point Blank Shot and Arcane Strike to pull off a Ray of Frost 1d3 +7 or some nonsense? There's another thread out there on this...

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Picking up a hammer

Double F is banned for uproarious laughter in blank space

Any longer and you'll have to call a doctor

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So... you're saying rogues are kind of bad?

The one thing that all gods in Golarion have in common is that they have to be the god OF something. You could be the god of hockey sticks, but that would qualify you. If you're just really good at something and people worship you for it, that's not enough. If you have MT 10 level power, that's still not enough. You transcend your stat block when you are virtually synonymous with SOMETHING to the point where no one thinks of you without thinking of this thing as well.

Rogues are subpar 'cause you all say so.

Lemme think about that... no.

Mallet game is banned for excessive CR

So Thor's a girl; your thoughts?

Religion in Golarion. Not dictionary time with smart people.

I still assert there's little to no need for centralized "Houses of Worship" in Golarion at all. If everyone is worshipping multiple gods, based on their need at the time, why would anyone build a special place for one?

Beginner box then.

What exactly would a 20th level commoner be? Whatever they want I'd imagine, within the guidelines of the NPC class. They'd just be REALLY good at it.

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Torchlyte wrote:
Mark Hoover wrote:
Lots of good stuff
Room 4 is gonna be pretty tough at level 1.

I feel kind of guilty about this, but I kind of want to force my players to run through that dungeon or something like it as a start to a campaign. My hack-n-slash players would kill me.

I wonder who the first villain will be to look at her and exclaim "You're a real THOR, you know that honey?"

Really? 214 posts? Would it have been more obvious if the title had said "A net troll wants people to talk about rogues"?

298 people are dead. There's no joke here, no conspiracy, no politics. Just people. Dead. I didn't even know any of them, but they were flying somewhere and they died.

There is no reason in this. There can be no explanation, no justification that makes sense. There were just 298 people, and then there weren't.

Fear and anger and frustration aren't strong enough. I'm sorry for these people, their families, their friends. I've only lost a few people in my life, and gradually over time. I can't even imagine.

Go on with the thread and the debate; I'm learning a lot and realizing how little I know of my own country of America as well as the rest of the world. But please try to remember that there were people on that flight.

Dotting for Ne-dawg's explanations.

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Adventurers aren't the only ones who earn or have "experience". It is knowledge gained from surviving challenging conflict. So a level 1 commoner (a common laborer in the town) might have the following "5 room dungeon":

Room 1: Welcome to the market/CR 1/3
You've pulled up your cart to the corner where several adventurers have tethered their horses. There is a fresh pile for you to clean
1. Monsters: x3 street urchins (N male human commoner 1 [young boys])
2. Tactics: the boys are going to try to scoop up a bit of dung with a bucket while you're not looking and then throw it on you, ruining your day. They begin the combat hidden behind the cart (Perception DC 10).

Room 2: Rats!/CR 1/3
The crowd is far too thick to haul across the market; you'll have to take an alleyway around. As you trudge through the narrows you spy beady red eyes glaring at you with hunger
1. Monsters: x2 normal rats
2. Treasure: the rats left behind a dog carcass in the shadows (DC 10 Perception) around the neck of which was a leather strap with a small crystal (10 GP)

Room 3: Beligerent drunk/CR 1/3
You're getting close to the dump, so your day is nearly done. Unfortunately Mirt the Drunk blocks your path and slobbers his rant at you: it's the end of the world; the dragon is coming back; HE used to be the only one who could stop it... you're going to have to deal with Mirt somehow.
1. Monsters: Mirt the Drunk (N male human commoner 1)
2. Special: if you defeat Mirt without giving him yet another beating, receive the equivalent of a CR 1/2 Exp award

Room 4: Boss Havlek/CR 1/2
The heat of the afternoon sun beats down on you and your cart. Approaching the dump however you spy Boss Havlek, the man who controls the pit. He's flanked by one of his strong-armed nephews and he does not look pleased.
1. Monsters: Boss Havlek (NE male human expert 1); Havlek's nephew (NE male human warrior 1)
2. Tactics: Havlek thinks you're late and wants to short change you for your load for making him wait. If you want to get paid properly for all your hard work you'll either have to fight his nephew or outnegotiate the man.

Room 5: Heading home
Well the day is finally done and your empty cart rattles over the cobblestones behind you. A young woman, a local oracle of Saranrae meets your gaze and smiles at you.
1. Monsters: Mila Elderflame (NG female half-elf Adept (Saranrae) 1)
2. Special: if you take a chance and succeed in impressing Mila, she takes pity on you and uses a couple cantrips on you and your cart, cleaning them and saving you hours more work. Going forward you may count on Mila having a Helpful attitude toward you.

So surviving this one day alive and with a positive outcome from all 5 encounters would net you 605 Experience, potentially an extra 10 GP, and maybe even a girlfriend. As time goes on I can see many challenging days like this ahead.

Could this guy get past, say, level 5 like this? Probably not. But then, maybe he and Mila get married, move to a capitol city, and he takes over a group of dungsweepers. He begins having to fight off idiot adventurers, otyughs, and dire rat swarms. An outbreak of undeath comes; a flood; guild wars. It would be hard, but not unthinkable that he remains a commoner for 20 levels over, say, 20 years.

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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Imagine someone in the real world who has had an entry level working-class job for a long long time. The waitress that's been working at the diner for 40 years. The Mailman who has had the same route for 20 years. The person who has been working on the floor at Sears for 35 years.

You get the gist. Any job you could get without a high school education plus a couple decades of experience.

Shop smart; shop S Mart. Ma'am, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to leave. (Deadite) And who the H*** are YOU? I'm Ash; hardwares!

Yeah, he could'a been king...

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I wonder why everyone goes "farmer" when they think of a 2oth level commoner. I think any NPC that has been good at one, simple, relatively unskilled job for decades might fit this bill. Farmer, laborer, fisherman, porter, or many other "menial" jobs.

Experience comes from combat, to be certain. In many of the APs and modules there are special awards for roleplaying, accomplishing important goals and other non-combat sources. Why is it hard then to think of a guy getting high level as a commoner?

Yes, getting married (if it was a challenge) can certainly be an experience-giving event. Winning terse negotiations with a neighbor; bar brawls; surviving a hurricane. All of these might grant experience.

20th level, obviously, would take a really long time but I don't think its so inconceivable. As to what this NPC would be; they'd be the BEST at what they do. Not the coolest, most optimized or the deadliest, but simply the best in their profession.

A 20th level shepherd for example might have incredible Perception, feats around mobility in the hills, carries a magic sling and doesn't even feel the weather anymore. He knows the herd well enough to even merit Perception checks if they're impersonated by sailors.

Who created Golarion then? Were the gods themselves created?

I asked about something similar in an old thread, though it focused more on the design of churches in Golarion. I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that a lot of towns in the setting had a single church, to a single deity, but then Polytheism was the thing.

I'm reminded though that most of the deities, in their write-ups, don't actually have big churches.

Cayden is worshipped in bars; Abadar in guildhouses; Erastil is praised in hunting lodges. It got me to thinking: why would there even be churches at all in Golarion?

But coming back to your central point I think the church thing ties in. If you don't need some central, sanctified place to worship your deities then that worship becomes at once more personal and more subdued. Imagine the life of Zeb the Younger (NG male human expert [woodsman] 1).


Zeb wakes in his little cottage and rain is threatening. He needs to go check his traps so he offers a quick prayer to Gozreh for better weather. Then he checks his gear and does a practiced routine of morning devotionals to Erastil (a lawful god). Then he's out into the woods checking his traps, but not before locking his door behind him, absently muttering some praise to Abadar for watching over his house while he's out.

So Zeb heads out into the woods, finds some rabbits and thanks Erastil for this bounty. But then on his last trap he finds the bounty mangled, the snare shredded. Tracks in the area are that of a fox but they're confused, like the animal was acting crazy. Zeb asks Desna for a safe, swift trip back to his door and tosses a bit of salt over his shoulder to ward off the evil he suspects infected the fox (perhaps put there by the Rough Beast).

A sudden sound. Movement on a side trail. Zeb draws his shortbow, knocks an arrow and begins whispering "Deadeye, make my shots true, Deadeye, make my shots true" over and over. The crazed fox, it's mouth slavering with foam, darts out of the undergrowth. It tears at Zeb's leg, its madness evident in the savage attack. Blood is drawn. The woodsman shakes free of it's bite and staggers back, fear dispelling the pain. With practiced skill he draws, aims and fires; the fox is pierced through the throat and falls.

Erastil is praised, but Zeb knows he's not safe yet. He stumbles home as fast as he can. If he doesn't get the wound clean and closed fast the Frothing Sickness will kill him in days. Back in his cabin the woodsman pours some weak beer in the wound and winces, then repeats pleas for health to Saranrae as he binds a poultice to the bite. He then goes outside and builds a fire, offering up one of the rabbits in the blaze, hoping the food and the heat will entice the sun goddess to send down her smile on his wound.

I guess that's what I figured life is like in Golarion. That being said, it's really hard to GM something like that. Every once in a while I'll make a point to mention how there's a special mug nailed over the bar or perhaps repeat a ritualized Abadaran greeting from the NPC as the characters enter a shop.

Rise of the Runelords card game?

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Mechanics aside, if you get drunk and don't remember how you passed some tests, you're a god. Not a demigod, quasi-deity or a level 20/10 MT hero, but a true god.

So that's all you have to do, at least in Golarion:

1. Go to Absalom
2. Get hammered
3. Take the tests
4. Black out

If you survive; god. If you don't, roll up a new character and go again.

Some GMs like myself also craft their own modular dungeon tiles with plaster and molds. Once made, you can throw them down to make just about any room or dungeon. Sometimes I like to just lay out a dungeon before the guys get here and then throw a sheet over it, pulling it back as areas are explored.

Look to your favorite drug commercials on TV such as Lipitor or Valtrex. Those are a treasure trove as well. Also Abulafia has tons of random name generators.

To quote a famous socialite: that's hot.

So if I'm going to run a Barakus/RA campaign, I could start the party in Endholme, have them run up the cost to Telar Brindel, then west to Eastgate, and finally from there to the Dungeon of Graves. I'm running PF; do the settlement sizes roughly correspond to those in the Gamemastery guide? Also is there a product from FGG that populates those in-between hexes or suggests population density or should I just wing it?

Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
I just bought Newcastle Werewolf. Haven't tried it yet.

Had the guys over last night. I got a 6 pack of Newcastle Werewolf with my "backup" being Summit Red IPA. The Newcastle is gone and the Summit wasn't touched.

I liked the deep, rich flavor on this. The more I drink the more I'm realizing that even in summer I like ale more than other styles of beer. Wait, is ale even a type of beer, or are they 2 different things? I just realized that in the 3 decades I've been running RPGs I've made them different drinks.

Anyway, Newcastle Werewolf is pretty good.

Your familiar is still your familiar in any form it's polymorphed into. It retains any abilities that don't depend on form, such as Evasion or SU abilities gained from familiar development based on level.

For example if you had an owl you could have it polymorphed into a Giant Owl, giving it certain size bonuses to Str, Con and a size penalty to Dex. It would likely also gain NA which would stack with whatever NA it had from being a familiar.

The huge magical beast before you could now serve as a mount. It would however retain whatever intelligence it got from being a familiar; it would also keep its Evasion, any communication abilities, so on and so forth. Does this make sense?

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I don't always play PFS, but when I do, I play epic level. Stay epic, my friends.

Seriously I don't think there's any specific rules that would disallow fluff for fluff's sake but I think (as people have mentioned) if the PCs want a mechanical benefit (such as a bonus to attack from being on the shoulder = higher ground or some such) then there'd have to be rolls made and you'd have to drill down into things like AoO's for occupying the same space as your enemy, etc.

Ravingdork wrote:
Mark Hoover wrote:

@ the OP: if my player took the time to craft such an awesome description I'd probably let them. I would however follow with (if the creature doesn't die) some equally cool riposte where the thing's eyes being so close blind the PC momentarily whereupon he swats you away; slam attack plus damage hitting the wall AND damage from the uncontrolled fall into the crater in the floor.

I'm with Pan though. Most of my combats are: move here; attack; repeat.

Do you mean slam damage + additional damage from hitting a wall + additional damage from falling?

Or do you mean simple slam damage, which is described as being the accumulation of those three things?

Does it matter? It's all fluff anyway.

Drejk wrote:
Claxon wrote:
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

"Groetus hangs in the form of a bloated moon above Pharasma's Boneyard in the Outer Sphere, silently watching. Only the other gods know whether the moon itself is the god, or merely his dwelling place, and they have proven reluctant to discuss the matter. Adventurous folk who have braved the surface of this place are either never heard from again, or are discovered soon after as the newest of the god's insane faithful.[3] It is unknown what role Groetus will play in the End Times."

Hypothesis: Groetus = Second Coming of Aroden.

I'm not sure if this is in jest or not. Hasn't Groetus been around since roughly the same time as all of the original gods of Golarion?

Aroden became a god with starstone, so it seems doubtful Groetus could be Aroden's reincarnation or second coming.

If this was in jest, then I'm sorry I've ruined it.

Aroden did not die. Instead, he traveled into the past (or maybe was forced into past by accident) and become Groetus. Somewhere in "mean time" (i.e. after stopping being Aroden but before emerging in the past as Groetus) he stole the Eox moon (which was weaponized by Eoxians) and infused it with divine power and now it acts as his seat of power/throne room/tomb. It might have played a vital role in chaining of Rovagug at one time.

EDIT: Or the moon wasn't Eoxian... It could be the moon of one of the Twins - Damiar or Iovo - planets that were destroyed and turned into Diaspora. Maybe he caused the catastrophe that destroyed Twins or maybe he saved the moon from the catastrophe?

Aroden is forced back in time. This causes planets to explode. This sets the Starstone on a collision course with Golarion. This causes Aroden to become a god.

Oh, and he just appeared to me in a duster and some 80's velcro high tops and told me if I want to live I have to come with him. Dam time paradoxes...

Well there's a lot of encounters or little side-plots to consider:

- schemes of the other politicians
- rival thieve's guilds
- independent BBEGs

Take the 3rd point above, just for a hoot. Let's say that, unbeknownst to anyone in the whole city you've got a vampire living in a crypt in the city. It's existed since the first fall of the dead god; it is in fact a cursed soul doomed for it's original heresy.

However, it DOESN'T want its dread lord to rise. It knows that things will only get worse for it if the dead god returns, but it can't suffer the sanctimonious paladins either.

Now you have a 3rd, independent faction in the mix. This faction might have roving vampire spawn, ghouls, and other undead. It might also have dominated slaves as part of a "herd" upon which it feeds from time to time. Perhaps make this herd into point 2, the rival thieve's guild. This guild gets wind that the paladin is working in the sewers and they move to take him out. The paladin is then saved by another agent of the vampire - an undead. RP situations abound.

In Golarion-specific settings the Forlorn would need special dispensation. Elves have mingled with humans long enough that there are special asylums meant to care for them when their minds become too inured with the horror of their own longievity. Some succumb to suicide; others cannot be helped and devolve into madness. The lucky few (PCs, rare NPCs) who react well to the therapy of these facilities are able to unburden themselves and stave off the effect of time.

These therapies are often invasive and sometimes as traumatizing as the lifetimes they erase. Unlike their sylvan kin these Forlorn lose whole sections of their life experience without the benefit of receptacles to return to so as to view and perhaps recover some of that experience over time.

After a few of these "treatments" many forlorn choose to leave the cities to strike out through the lands of the Inner Sea in hopes of either blazing out in a glorious end or perhaps gaining the pity of their kin and finding gentler lives beyond human walls.

Eh? Whattaya think?

@ the OP: if my player took the time to craft such an awesome description I'd probably let them. I would however follow with (if the creature doesn't die) some equally cool riposte where the thing's eyes being so close blind the PC momentarily whereupon he swats you away; slam attack plus damage hitting the wall AND damage from the uncontrolled fall into the crater in the floor.

I'm with Pan though. Most of my combats are: move here; attack; repeat.

Well, isn't the Valet archetype familiar already set to use your teamwork feats? So If you had, say, coordinated defense and a familiar with that archetype, you could both use the feat?

I can imagine clerics of Thunarr holding their favored weapon, a sunsword, while wearing their ceremonial brown vest and chanting "AAAAHHHH-EEE" to the "Lords of Light(ning)"

Just a thought.

Seriously though, if the PCs are encouraged to make up their own private god and have hundreds to choose from, make THEM think up how they pray.

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Blaaarg wrote:
Really I just wanted a lot of homebrewed ritual prayer ideas. I understand that "Inner Sea Gods" exists, but I don't always play in Golarion, and this is a homebrew board.

I don't always play in Golarion, but when I do, it's always Epic level.

Sorry; couldn't resist :)

Anyway, each of the gods would have different rites based on their portfolio as well as domains, culture of the clergy, etc. If you're looking for a defined list - Inner Sea Gods. If you're looking for non-core gods, core gods in a non-core setting or something else entirely you could easilly invent your own.

Start first with: what do you imagine a traveling cleric of god X needing with them to pray? Is it just the deity's holy symbol? A preferred weapon? An additional mundane item like a bowl, rug or tome?

Next, consider the deity's portfolio: law vs chaos, good vs evil, portfolio concerns such as farmers or undeath, and finally their standard domains. Each of these would influence HOW the PC might pray. Lawful gods would have some rote chant while chaotic might have more like a suggested state of mind.

Finally consider the culture of the clergy. This will influence the process as well. Consider 2 clerics of Pharasma; one from a primitive barbarian tribe in the hills with another from the heart of Absalom. While the civilized priest might spin a prayer disk on a portable altar while humming a litany of funerary rites, the more barbaric priest might simply recite the same litany over the skulls of his tribal enemies.

What's your homebrew like?

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I guess I just sort of figured Aroden didn't die. Aroden...Aaron... Elvis Aaron Presley... it makes sense. I picture Aroden, out there somewhere with a sequin jumpsuit, sideburns and a bucket of fried chicken singing Blue Suede Shoes to another plane of existence.

Irori: you go through tai-chi like katas

Iomedae: meditate over your sword recounting the miracles

Saranrae: ritualized dancing and uulating?

I'd be more interested to see what studying spells looks like for wizards.

The reason elves don't sleep: they sleep for 300 years, wake up to become adventurers, then fall asleep again for the rest of their unnaturally long lives.

Other solutions:

- They go through a "devolved state" where they descend from the forest canopy to fight, wander and experience the world during which time they forget hundreds of years of education

- Elves aren't actually physically able to care for themselves and retain complex training until about age 100; during the time they are developing their parents "tend" them as one would a bonsai tree

- Elves develop just as fast as any sentient race and live hundreds of lives. They mature at 18 and go off in search of adventure. Every so often they "data dump"; their mind and emotional state becomes too tenuous to fully absorb the enormity of their lifespan. "What do you MEAN all the non-elves I know will be dead and dust before my mid-life?" So they go into sacred sites, known as "Save Portals" and download all their life experiences and memories, resetting them back to when their body last experienced aging.

None of these are a perfect solution and I'm sure there's yet others. This is why one GM I played under refused to allow true elves as a PC race in his homebrew. You could be a half-elf and 800 year old elves existed, but their world view and aging was so skewed off normal that they'd never be off on a career as an adventurer. Instead they'd spend years just to comprehend one leaf in their forest.

Cyrad wrote:

Have you read Inner Sea Gods? They actually do say what's involved in prayer. In fact, the book also introduced a feat called Deific Obedience, which allows a character to do a one hour prayer ritual to gain boons. The book lists details of the ritual and the boons for each core god

I am not a fan of defining prayer based on domain. I think a god's prayer should depend on the god themselves, especially considering that even gods with similar domains can have completely different viewpoints on those domains.

Seconded. An Asmodean Fire cleric will have a vastly different set of prayers than, say, one devoted to Saranrae.

It might also differ by region too. I use the core gods in my homebrew but said world is highly influenced by RW eastern Europe. As such Saranite clergy wield cutlasses and dance like Russian folk dancers.

Saranite prayers then in my game are more about recitation using a string of beads w/holy symbol similar to a crucifex. They face east (morning) or west (evening) and chant the Devotions of the Light over each bead.

But yes, the Inner Sea Gods would serve you well here.

Lincoln: My old Juicer Assassin from Rifts, Ed McMahon, would beg to differ. When, on full-juice, I can wrangle a giant crab-monster as big as a skyscraper back through a rift and survive 1 pt of megadamage everything's A OK. See also: Steve Rogers; Captain America.

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Jewelry is always a good wedding gift. Look first to the PCs and find something they share in common. Paladin of Iomedae and Bard of Shelyn; both I'm guessing have decent if not epic charismas? Perhaps jewelry that accentuates that beauty.

It doesn't have to be magic. Masterworks encrusted with gems or if they're a simpler couple perhaps elaborate belts. If you do want to go magical consider simpler effects for flavor:

- prestidigitations to keep them both ever-clean, groomed, and wafted by subtle breezes (like super models).

- a combination of dancing lights and ghost sound to capture and replay their wedding song forever, at will

- a combination of locate object and deathwatch so they always know where the other one is and how they're doing

- whispering wind, so they can always talk to one another

Another thought would be to consider their chosen vocations and have items crafted specifically for them, but somehow thematically tied together. For her, a unique sheath that keeps her sword ever sharp, clean and mended; for him a case for his instrument that does the same. Again, masterworks would work just as well.

Finally, think of real life. Modern couples create a theme for their wedding and some register for gifts at local boutiques. Look to these sources for inspiration. Their 2 faiths share no symbols in common, but perhaps a masterwork tapestry depicting a glaive and a longsword crossed over a silver field bordered by starbursts and rainbow-tailed birds. For an added effect perhaps have the device iluminate softly in their presence and again play their wedding song.

Whatever you give them should be tasteful, thoughtful, and encompass both their personalities. Hopefully these suggestions start to guide you in the right direction.

Step 1. Get your GM to read a lot of Batman comics

Step 2. Get your GM to allow your PC to have a Bane costume

Step 3. Swift or Free action to mainline potions from the suit injected directly into the character's veins

If you're looking for a RAW, PFS-approved way then probably spring-loaded sheathes.

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DM Pendin Fust wrote:

The next very important question:

When do we cast time stop?

No, not time stop. You'll want slow for this.

@Des and SP: moderation here is the key. I ask my players to create a backstory, not a LIFE story. Their backstory might be as simple as "I was born the son of a laborer and when I was 6 I got lost in a crowd. A mysterious stranger found me and told me I'd be the chosen savior. I grew up my father's son until at age 30 I felt this strange urge to wander." Then as the game unfolds the laborer's son becomes the chosen of Aroden and his martyrdom is heralded as a new birth of religion.

If however I get one of 2 extremes (a couple sentences of generic fluff or a 60 page short story) I will basically ignore it.

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