Sorry, Catdragon. Live, Learn, Love was just a turn of phrase meant to describe how important Tears to Wine was for my build. Sorry for the confusion.
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Oh. My. God. I've been trying to find a way to use Crystal Chakrams since I since first found them years ago. Thank you Daw for making my dreams a reality! CRYSTAL WARRIOR HERE I COME!
I played an Occultist in Strange Aeons from start to finish. They are amazing in this AP. Whatever you do, don't take any archetype that trades away Object Reading. My DM used that sweet, sweet ability to give us information that we otherwise never would have had access to. Detect Psychic Significance, Detect Magic, and Object Reading for the win. The only problem is that both Detect spells are Divination. I solved this problem by playing an Elf with the Envoy racial trait to get Detect Magic 1/day until I could buy a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard. I built my Elven Occultist as a Knowledge specialist and secondary melee through the use of a Reach weapon and Combat Reflexes. Between Power Attack, a two-handed weapon, and Legacy Weapon from the Transmutation implement you should be pretty solid on combat. My Occultist never took the Necromancy implement because I was playing him like a Paladin in a party full of Paladins. Lol Frustrated the crap out of our poor DM even with the removal of Immunity to Fear. There are some amazing Focus Powers in Necromancy though. Necromantic Servant can help tank some of the harder foes or spring some of the traps you'll come across and save the party a lot of damage. Make sure to pick up an Armored Coat asap to help out its survivability without wasting its duration. Soul Bound Puppet is where it's really at though. A custom built familiar whenever you want one for a single point is amazing. Need another combatant? Mauler. Don't have that knowledge skill in the party or messed up your roll? Sage. Can't speak the monsters language? Bring up a Raven that knows it. It's power is only limited by what your DM will restrict it to. I'd take it over Necromantic Servant in most cases. For more general advice, Transmutation, Divination, and Abjuration will serve you incredibly well in this AP. Trans will give you a stat belt effect long before you'll find one in the AP. Abjuration will keep your saves at the proper level. And Divination was my MVP implement for the entire game. My Occultist pretty much never failed a Perception check and the constant See Invisibility at 7th+ saved my parties bacon more times than I can remember. If you want to handle any and all Knowledge checks for the party you can fill that role masterfully especially as an Elf. Take Breadth of Experience and Live, Learn, Love the 1st level Transmutation spell Tears to Wine. Purify whatever liquid you cast it on making it safe to drink and when you drink it gain a SCALING bonus to Int and Wis checks for 10 mins/level. Keep close to max ranks in the five major Knowledges and with your Int, feat, and spell enjoy smashing even some of the absurdly high DCs later in the path BY YOURSELF. Laughing maniacally is optional, but suggested. To be honest though the best reason to play either an Elf or a Half-Elf is the amazing Elven Favored Class Bonus. Your Implements are hungry beasts for points if you want to keep them pumping out the best bonuses they can. Make sure to take the Extra Mental Focus feat asap. You can only take it once, but you'll want those extra 2 points of Focus. Constant See Invis from Divination is especially greedy at 9 points. It's worth it though as soon as you take the Mind's Eye focus power. Free, Invisible scouting with your Perception checks and senses (including constant See Invis) anywhere an eyeball can fly into. There is a surprising lack of creatures that can detect it until around halfway through Book 4. My starting stats after Racial bonuses were:
Put 3 Focus points into your Trans implement to push your Str to 18 and you're good until you can take Power Attack at 3rd or 5th level. I'd suggest spending one of your traits, if you get them, on Destined for Greatness to get the Melee Contingency Kit for free at first level. It saved my party a few times throughout Books 1 and 2. Whatever you end up choosing, you should have a blast in Strange Aeons as an Occultist. Let me know if you have any other questions.
If you tell me what weapon you think you'll use the most though, I'll be happy to build your Fighter out in Herolab and we see what it'll look like at certain levels. That Will save is probably going to be abyssmal though.
The biggest problem I'm seeing is that you seem to think that Fighters are the best at being able to use a variety of weapons when they aren't. They can be decent with the four weapons you listed, but only at the baseline. Pathfinder rewards specialization, especially for Fighters. Magus, Cavalier, Warpriest, Slayer and a few others are all going to be better at using multiple weapons than a Fighter because they all come with damage boosts that don't care about the weapon being used. Fighters are better at moving around in Heavy Armor and that's about it, but you already listed Boots of Striding and Springing as part of your equipment so you'll still have 30' of movement no matter what class you choose. The worst part though is how so many people have tried to explain to you how what you want, from Fighter specifically, probably won't work out very well and your only response has been to effectively ignore them or tell them they are being unhelpful and mean. A few other things, Cavaliers aren't dependent on their Mounts. They can do just as much damage unmounted as any Fighter that hasn't specialized in a weapon and has given up Weapon Training for Martial Flexibility and quite a bit more on a Challenge. They also get more skills and the have Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive as class skills which happen to be the main social skills. If you just want a ton of feats, but still want to be effective with multiple weapons and don't care about throwing away 400g every time you ride a horse into battle after level 5 or so, then I think you should play a Slayer. More skills, Heavy Armor with a single feat or dip, bonus feats that can ignore prereqs (I'd suggest Archery here), and Studied Target to boost both Attack/Damage and several skills. You can spend a trait to get Diplomacy or find a class that gets it and Heavy Armor.
What you want is literally a Cavalier. Specifically, a Gendarme Cavalier. Order is up to you, but I'd probably go with Order of the Flame for more damage. Gendarme trades away the Tactician abilities and bonus teamwork feats for a specific list of Mounted Combat-centric bonus feats. For a 20 pt build at level 5 this is what I would do. Str 18 (Human +2, +1 at level 4)
Feats
Get some Fullplate, a Shield, Longsword, and Lance and you're good to go. Skills will be maxed out Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Handle Animal, Ride, and through Pearless Courtier Sense Motive. After this you can take whatever you like as the core build is finished. The only thing you need to be solid in melee unmounted is a good Str and Power Attack. Good at Mounted Combat you need a Mount as the class feature and the feats Mounted Combat, Ride by Attack, and Spirited Charge. Easy peasy.
@Fezbot Can you break down the math for that attack routine? Seems awful high for a class setup with a BAB of +11 at level 16. Not that it isn't possible given PF's math, just that I'm not seeing it.
Awesome, good to know all around. Thank you both. If anyone else has advice, then feel free.
Hi, all! In a few more weeks my group will be starting the Strange Aeons AP and I was heavily considering finally trying out the class I bought Occult Adventures for. Is there any reason, no spoilers please, why I shouldn't play a PyroKineticist for this AP? I don't want to get neutered offensively if there is a lot Fire Resistance or high Spell Resistance baddies. If anyone has any build advice other than what's already in the amazing Kineticist guide, that would be appreciated as well. Thanks!
If you did want to be a Crafter, then the Soulforger does stack with Deep Marshal IIRC and there is some flavor synergy there as well. And if you worship Torag there is a least one hammer that helps speed up crafting. Though it seems like that might not be what you're after. Anyone else disappointed that Deep Marshals don't gain access to the Pit line of spells? I spent the better part of 3 hours building a Deep Marshal around bullrushing foes into Pits just to discover they don't gain the ability to cast them.
I'll start by saying that a Battle Host Occultist with 14 Con and Full Plate should do okay on the survivability front. Maybe put the Trans bonus on Con if you're worried about it in the early levels as 18 Str with any 2-hander will carry you on damage until you get PA at 4. High Str + 2-hander + PA also covers you on being good at melee especially when you add Bane on top of it. For VMC, yes Arcane Pool buffing should stack just fine, but ask you DM just in case. Some are okay with stacking straight plusses and others might only allow plusses from one and abilities from the other to stack. I think VMC Magus is a good choice for BHosts and yes, Spellstrike will work just fine with a 2-hander On the flip side, VMC Wizard can be really good for Melee types. I like Air School for the free Flight at mid levels and the Electric Burst power is better than nothing when you encounter a swarm. Your call on which you prefer. As for crafting, the DC gets cranked up by 5 for every spell you don't have and Occultists aren't exactly swimming in spells known. Skill Focus can really help with that of you're committed to that aspect and the Valet will help a bit as well. All said, I think you'll do fine with what you have planned. I like Abjuration as a second implement because saves are important and APs never seem drop any good Cloaks of Resistance, but always have amusing Shoulder slot items thematic to the campaign.
This is a build I just came up with last night that may be useful for you. He was bult as a Human so you'll have to tweak the stats and lose Belier's Bite, but you probably wouldn't benefit from that feat in Iron Gods anyway. This is a copy/paste from a message to a friend so ignore the Vicious AoMF unless he wants to go that route. Human: Belier's Bite
Level 8 Stats No magic
I think I found the build for Bloody Knuckles. Snakebite Striker Brawler + Vicious AoMF + Jabbing Style. At level 8 assuming 20 Str +12/+12/+7/+7 for (1d10+5 Str+2d6 Vicious +1d4 Bleed) Standard Damage. On 2nd hit vs same target add 2d6. On 3rd and subsequent hits add 3d6. Once flanking thanks to Jabbing Dancer add 2d6 Sneak Attack. So in a perfect round, +12/Standard damage +5 ft step, +12/Standard damage +2d6 +5ft step, probably flanking now so +9/standard damage +5d6, and +9/same. All attacks hit (4d10+20+8d6)+(12d6)+probably 4 Bleed or Avg 101 damage and 4 Bleed and 14 damage to myself. Hope that helps!
@Sah. I suppose you're right about that. I always forget that the Wildblooded options are actually considered an Archetype. That is... unfortunate. I suppose I could be a Tattooed Cha Sorceror with the Protector or a Sage Int Sorceror,bit not both. Well, that kind of makes the decision for me as I like having skills so Arcanist it is unless Vigilante proves better. Thank you for pointing that out. @Magehunter. As amusing as the Shovelknight build is, I'm not sure it's what I want for this character. Side question, do you think you could choose a shovel to be your Black Blade?
Shameful self bump. :-P
Yay, responses! I'm not forum savvy so I'm just going to @ to respond to all of you individually. @Kurald First, allow me to thank you for writing that amazing Magus guide! I've used it more than once to build characters for my home games and the result has always been ruthless efficiency in combat. :-) Now that's out of the way, let me say that although I love the Magus class, I've played too many of them recently (2 out of the last 4 characters actually) so although I really like their action economy and efficacy in combat, I want something a bit different this time. I also think my DMs might appreciate the change as well to be honest. Losing Spell Combat will go a long ways in that direction and there are a few spells I'd like to try out that Magus doesn't get or would take too long to Spell Blend. I also don't need to be able to tear it up in melee as my parties usually have that covered. I'd just like to have the ability to not whiff horribly should I need to swing a sword. lol @My Self I understand the EK will be a bit behind the curve in weapon combat and I'm okay with that. To me it'll be a lot like playing a combat Bard without the Inspire Courage so not the best, but more than passable. I do like the ability of the Arcanist route to Swift buff their weapon, Standard cast a nasty Touch spell and Spellstrike the enemy with it, and Move teleport away to safety. Seems super neat and useful. I'm just not sure if that's more enticing than the familiar who could honestly be any archetype. I just choose protector originally for the Shield Other ability and that's only if Melded counts as touching. @Sheepish Eidolon I hadn't considered the Vigilante path because to be honest, I'm just not a fan of the premise for the class. I know, I know, fluff is changeable yadda yadda yadda, but I just... Anyway, since you suggested it I'll take a look at it and see what's there. Thank you! @Dastis I do like Quick Study, but with the limited number of spells an Arcanist can prep do you think it would see much use? Dimensional Slide was already going to be my one free Exploit. :-) Also, holy crap that build is hilarious, but wouldn't fly in my group. We don't really allow suped up oversize weapon shenanigans.
I did specify the starting level as 1st. Would go until possibly level 15,but probably no further than that. I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm aware of the Magus class and have played several of them in the past. The whole point of this character is to keep some of the same flavor as the Magus, but to have the more powerful/versatile Sorc/Wizard spell list at my disposal. Maybe do something a little different then just Blast.
Hoping for a little guidance on what might be better to go into EK with. Blade Adept Arcanist VMC Battle Oracle or Tattooed Sage Blooded Sorceror VMC Battle Oracle with a Protector Familiar? Obviously using VMC Oracle to get Skill at Arms to meet the prereqs of EK without losing caster levels. Blade Adept gives me that sweet, sweet Black Blade that scales with caster level. Tat Sorceror allows me to bypass the awful replacement bloodline power Arcane Bolt with the Familiar I lost to get Int based spellcasting. And if the familiar counts as touching me when in tattoo form I get Shield Other on demand without leaving my little friend as a target. Do you guys think that it would work that way? Need to know which entry is better and if you're feeling generous a possible sample build would be great if anyone has done this before. The guidelines for the game it'll be played are as follows.
Thanks!
I've played a Flowing Monk before so I may be able to help a bit, but mine was a Str build with Oread as the race so a few things will have to be tweaked. Do you just want the build at 4th level or do you want it to go higher? Are you using point buy or rolling for stats? If rolled can you change their order or is it set in stone? Also what books/races are allowed and what is your starting level and gold? So far you've already avoided one of the mistakes I made which was not having my Int be at least a 13 so I could grab Combat Expertise and Greater Trip. I really don't know why the Greater versions of Trip and Reposition didn't make it to the Bonus Feat list, but whatever.
At soupturtle, I'll definitely take a look at your build when I get off of work and respond to you then.
I know that the Pit spells aren't the best at this level, but I'll be working as a team with a caster who uses Sirroco so it'll work a bit better and we fight quite a few martials. I'm more interested in the concept than perfect combat optimization. I'm interested Monstrous Physique for the ability increases and more arms/special abilities. I could mostly use some help choosing feats since I'm not sure what to take after the Feat tree's to get to Quick Bullrush. Probably Arcane Armor Mastery,but after that?
So, the basic idea here is an EK who uses the Monstrous Physique and Pit spells and Bull Rush to keep enemies in the Pit. Any ideas on how to best optimize this idea? All Core Paizo books are allowed, 25 PB, all races are allowed, 15th level with standard wealth (240,000g). Help me make this guy ridiculous!
Where is Vallairs getting her light step ability from?
Well, they usually are wearing a belt with a big buckle, right? Sounds like +5Haramaki to me. Otherwise Kensai Magus or Dex Fighter into Duelist. Or Monk. That's what I've got off of the top of my head.
I would definitely be interested in them. Please and thank you!
I would like to see a CR 14 Human Cleric that wades into battle with the help of his Animated Greatswords obtained through the use of Craft Construct. If you really want to go nuts you can Animate his armor as well. Dealers choice on whether it is Heavy armor or Medium armor.
I don't know if it's too late to be of any help, but I've been working on an 11th level character who is Armor Master Fighter 5/Hellknight Commander 6. Probably a bit over-powered for facing 4 7th level characters because he has PC equipment that he crafted at 1/2 price, but if you like I could post him up for your use.
Thank you for all the help and suggestions! I did go Pyromaniac so I'll definitely be using the Produce Flame thing you suggested and after looking everything over again I've decided to take your advice and use my bombs mostly for debuffing. Sadly, my GM wouldn't allow firearms so the gunslinger synergy idea had to be let go. Thanks again for all the great info!
Note: I've already read the Alchemist Guide in the Guide to the Guides. I'm be starting at level 6 and playing a Gnome Alchemist focused on bombing and poisoning things. I'm planning on taking Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid shot as my feats as well as the Fast Bombs Discovery so I can throw multiple bombs a round. The problem I've found though is after the bombs run out, what do I besides try to poison things? My idea was to throw Alchemical items like Alchemists Fire and Acid Flasks, but as far as I can tell there is no way to throw more than one of them a round because Quick Draw explicitly states that it does not work for these items. So my question is this: Is there a legal way to do this that I have missed? Also, is Splash Weapon Mastery a feat worth taking? Sorry, I don't know how to make links.
Can I use Field Repair to repair broken magic items like a +1 Longsword? ASSUMING I have the relavent Craft feats to make them in the first place? I tried searching for this, but turned up nothing of use.
Would you be so kind as to put the build up for me so that I can see what feats you took and where? It'd probably help me out a lot. :)
Thanks for the spell suggestions. They'll help me save me some time later since I haven't even touched spell selection yet. Figured I'd do that when I knew how far into RMA I'd be. Power attack will work better with the ranger build, and during those times you can only attack once, you can can two hand the sawtooth sabre. This is an even better point now that I know Weapon Finesse won't work.
Why Cleric 2? Are you using an Archetype for the cleric levels that gets something useful at level 2? Otherwise I feel like a 1 level dip into the class will get me everything I need especially if I go Crusader and take Weapon Focus as my 1st level Bonus Feat. That would allow me to to knock out 4 feats at level one which might just have to happen... ;) Also, did you only go Weapon Master to get Weapon Training sooner? Because that's pure genius. lol
I have been considering Ranger, but I'd have to go Ranger 6 to pick up ITWF. I'd gain 2 favored enemies and access to Lead Blades which would be nice, but I'd lose Armor and Weapon Training. Armor training isn't a big deal, but weapon training + Dueling Gloves would mostly balance out the bonus from str. If I knew I wouldn't be the only front-liner I'd almost definitely go the Ranger route. The Fighter path just seems to be better for a more defensive build, but maybe I'm wrong there.
Now that I'm back at the computer, here is the current build: Human Female Fighter5/Rogue(Rake or Poisoner)2/Red Mantis Assassin3
Level Progression and Feats
Things I want this character to be able to do: Accomplished skill monkey focusing in Bluff, Acrobatics, Perception, Stealth, and possibly Intimidate if I go the Rake route, deal decent damage, have the highest AC she can since she may end up the only melee character in the group. Any suggestions on equipment are welcome. Only thing I have on the list so far is this:
Pretty much just the way it sounds. Basic build so far is Vanilla Fighter5/Rogue2( Rake or Chameleon)/Red Mantis Assassin3. Starting level is ten with a 25 point buy and standard wealth for level. Focus is on being a skill monkey and twfing.Any advice is welcome including alternate builds as long as they end up in RMA and use twf. I will post my current build once I get back to my computer.
My Paladin will soon be traveling an Alchemist who's specializing in Poison Use. (His brother in game.) How is the use of poison seen in game? Is it evil and/or dishonest?
As stated, I'm currently creating an undead horde for my players to obliterate in an upcoming adventure, but the process has raised a few questions: 1) When a creatures rises as a skeleton or other undead does it retain the base creatures senses as well as gaining Darkvision or does it lose all of its base senses and only have Darkvision from that point forward? Example: Skeleton Bulette. Keep Tremorsense, Scent, and Low-Light Vision or lose all of the above? 2) Can a Skeleton be blinded via Dirty Trick or other means even though it has no eyes? I have a Rogue who likes to blind things at every opportunity via Improved Dirty Trick. 3) Just to make sure I'm doing it correctly, when it comes to AC for skeletons you drop the base creatures Nat Armor Bonus and replace it with the size dependent Nat Armor bonus on the table, correct? Example: Skeletal Bulette Nat Armor bonus changes from +12 to +3? 4) Do any of you know where I could find a Monster Generator that would do all of this work for me and put it into the correct Pathfinder format? I've found a few generators that say they do, but actually still use base creatures from the 3.5 Bestiary translated into the Pathfinder format instead of using the Pathfinder Bestiary. This is slightly problematic for me.
So... Popular consensus is to decide it with the group more or less when the Summoner is made then? Which I take it would mean that if the group decided the Eidolon was its own "person", then it would be run similar to an NPC by the GM giving it a chance to realize something was wrong and disobey its master. If however, it is merely the Summoner's b*%th, then it does what its told OR does what its told while seeking help to stop his Dominated master.
This may have been covered somewhere else, but the search didn't turn up anything useful on the subject.
Two things: 1) I really like your Dex based fix. Not only does it SEEM to work well, but it rewards the character for having a high Dex. Which it should in the first place. :)2) I you really play it RAW, then "she can reload a SINGLE BARREL of the weapon as a free action EACH ROUND instead.", meaning you only get to reload 1 barrel for free each round. Yes, that makes it pretty suck-tastic, but since deeds are given and not chosen there really isn't any reason to complain.
Straight out of the PDFs: "Targeting Torso: Targeting the torso threatens a critical on a 19–20.""Last line of Improved Critical: This effect doesn’t stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon." "Keen: This ability doubles the threat range of a weapon. Only piercing or slashing melee weapons can be keen." So, keen goes right out of the door either way since it can only be applied to Melee weapons. Targeting Torso makes no mention of it increasing the threat range of the weapon, it only says that you threaten on a roll of 19-20. The last line of Imp crit however specifies exactly that it can't be used with any other EFFECT that has expanded the threat range of the weapon. In Targeting's explanation it says "When she makes this attack, she can choose part of the body to target, and gains the following effects depending on the part of the body targeted." So, IMO, RAW, Targeting Torso doesn't stack with Imp Crit. I feel like if the designers had wanted to, then they would have specifically said so. Think of it this way: Do you know of ANY way to legally have a Scythe threaten a crit on 17-20? I don't and I think guns are following the same rules as other /x4 crit weapons in this regard.
That would be nice. I also wouldn't mind seeing the inclusion of the different firing positions to make it easier to hit long range without needing the far reaching sight. Making gunslinger Deeds like Rogue Talents is also a nice idea, but some of them would need to be given to all Gunslingers like Lightening Reload and Quick Clear/Expert Loading. Could you imagine this: You dead shot with your musket and misfire twice? Boom! Gun is gone. Of course, that's a concern as it is right now until 11th. Worse if you DT Dead Shot with a DB Pistol... That's what I'm working with.
(No snarkiness in my statement) Yes, I have read it. And like many others suggested, in my "Proposal for the Gunslinger Final Version" thread, I had moved Lighting Reload to an earlier Deed level, specifically 3rd level. I wrote my adendum to the Gun Training based on that assumption. Whether the Devs will do that, that's another story. But, what I have written could easily be adapted to the Lighting Reload gain at 11th, which I think is way too late. Oh, okay. lol I thought you just might not know that it got moved to level 11 because I haven't gotten around to reading that particular thread yet. I didn't feel like I could really back up any ideas I might have until I played the class so I avoided going there. I didn't mean any snarkiness either, just in case. :) Umm... I personally agree with you that Lightening Reload needs to be moved down. 3rd level would be nice because then if your wizard cast haste you'd actually be able to take advantage of it, but I'd settle for it at 7th so they could keep their current Deed progression rate. Though admittedly I'd rather see it 6th so I could make my second attack without needing a more expensive gun like a DB or Pepperbox Pistol or a second gun. Right now 6th level just seems like a dead level in the class. :/
I thought that might be it. Things make much more sense now. In most of the games I've played (all homebrew/no prefabs) magic has usually been relatively plentiful. At least in the larger capital cities anyways. Now that most of our party is level 9 half of the things we're fighting have DR of one kind or another. Fricking demons, man! :P What is the AP? Adventure path? Where is the part about Targeting Torso stacking with Improved Critical? Maybe I have an older version, but I haven't read that anywhere. That would be very nice though, if a bit broken since I can't think of any other weapon that could get a 17-20/x4 crit. Add a burst quality to the gun? That's threatening death by massive damage easy. And yes, the way I'm reading it, only the damage die gets multiplied. Anything else only gets multiplied on a confirmed critical and then you'd get to multiply the extra straight damage, but not stuff from weapon properties like flaming. The way I'm reading it anyway.
Hmm... Its nice, but here's my problem with it and this isn't your fault at all. You have to wait until 11th level to get it now. Honest question: Have you read the new gunslinger round 2 playtest?
What do you do when you run into a creature with damage reduction? Unless I'm missing something you're only doing 1d8+5 on a hit which averages out to only 9 damage per (1gp1sp) shot which will become 4 against anything with even DR5/Magic. Go higher like DR10/Magic or DR5/10/Good and you'll barely do anything unless you crit. That's atrocious. Question: Are you playing in a low magic campaign?
Umm... Well, besides cost which won't matter at later levels, i can't think of a single thing.
I guess, in a way, the weapon cord solves some of the problems. I like your build, btw. Mostly because it seems like you're trying to bring some reality in to it while leaving it fun to play. I bet that first turn is ridiculous! lol My main problem is really the OVER THE TOP min-maxers who will TWFing doubletap every single attack with both guns and think that's anywhere near fair. Fix it with magic items/properties and I'll have very little room to complain. That or make it a string of feats and give the gunslinger more feats. They really do need more anyway to try and compete with a ranger or fighter archer. I'm not interested in TWF though. Too much of a feat tax for this class right now. Can you give me your opinion on this, Pendaghast?
I don't think I ever stated anything that made it seem like I believe that movies are any more/less fantasy than this game. If I did or you misread it, then I apologize for not being clearer in my statements. But you raise a good point:How long is a free action really? Dropping an item or your character to prone is free action that IRL takes about as long to accomplish as this thought in your mind "DROP". Ceasing concentration on a spell takes about the same amount of time, probably a little less since its just a thought. There is no reaction delay from your muscles needing to be activated. So I guess free actions are about as quick as thoughts? Maybe a little slower. Just thinking about the reloading process for switching hands and reloading two one handed guns takes enough time (in my mind) to only allow one doubletap from each gun in 6 secs, assuming DB pistols. But that's just me. You're right about the arrow thing being ridiculous. The probability of grabbing three arrows at once, pulling just those three from the quiver without spilling arrows everywhere, nocking all three perfectly to the string at once first try, and then managing to release all three at once and hit the target are pretty much impossible. But now that I've rethought about it, isn't the problem more about needing a freehand to reload? You need a free hand to draw the arrows. I think you should always need a free hand to reload the gun unless magic is used to solve the problem. Maybe the solution, since guns are supposed to be different by design, would be to limit the number of free action barrel reloads to a maximum number each round? I really don't know any more...
This is not true of all paper cartridges. Some breach-loading firearms used paper cartridges that were similar to metal cartridges and shotgun shells. Additionally, some percussion revolvers inserted paper cartridges whole and were rammed into place. The paper was soaked in nitrate to help ignite the powder. I did not know about that so thank you for the information. :)
I've always thought of fantasy RPGs like Pathfinder as a place where you can "suspend disbelief" as Ksorkrax stated and do that crazy stuff that you see happen in movies all of the time, but know would never work IRL. I've seen those bow trick shots in movies multiple times, but I've never seen an "Early" firearm reloaded that quickly even in a movie. I'm not saying it isn't out there, just that I've never personally seen it. Personally, I like Gignere's idea of the supernatural ability later on in the Gunslinger progression or just the creation of the magical everlasting round. The problem with that however is that it will highly favor certain firearms at later levels and make others completely pointless. Why have a Pepperbox pistol where you'd need 6 of these magical cartridges when you could just buy 1 for your Pistol and do the same thing or 2 for you DB Pistol and "DT" all day long? Of course, later levels already favor 2handed guns as it is.
Just because the iconic is holding 2 DB Pistols doesn't mean that she is able to fire all four barrels and reload them all in time to do the same thing next round. Seriously, have any of you ever tried to reload even a modern, magazine fed pistol without a freehand? It ain't easy. And unless you have a speed loader, reloading a revolver (even with modern metal cartridges) takes longer than 6 seconds usually. Besides, assuming she's using paper cartridges, which would reduce the time taken to reload, it still wouldn't allow her to reload more than a single barrel in 6 seconds. Real paper cartridges don't work like metal ones. You can't just push them into the gun and have them work. You have to tear the top off, pour the powder charge down the barrel, remove excess paper while being sure to keep just enough around the round to ensure a tight fit, ram the round down the barrel, replace the percussion cap (assuming its not a flintlock), level/aim, and fire. In before: If guns worked realistically in Pathfinder/D&D/etc, they wouldn't be worth using at all... Personally, I don't think you ever need to be able to reload a pistol with no hands because you're TWF with them. Just use a single Double-Barreled Pistol. So far, RAW and ruling wise by Stephen, you can reload both barrels just fine as free actions and "Double Tap" every shot in a full attack making it basically the same as TWFing. Except that both shots from the "Double Tap" have to target the same enemy.
Thank you, Scipion. You've been incredibly helpful. :) So, with what you've said, RAW, if I were to Rapid Shot and "Double tap" at level 11 (Using Rapid Reload and alchemical cartridges to reload as free actions) I'd get to make 8 attacks with a -6 penalty to all attacks, right? (-4 each time I "DT" + a -2 on all attacks for Rapid Shot) With each successful attack getting to deal normal gun damage 1d8 plus whatever and each shot getting its own to chance to crit or misfire on natural rolls of 1-2? I thought gunslinger might be under damaged, but it would seem that if you can stay within first range increment and keep 1 grit pt available with Deft Shootist to avoid AoO, then you'll never really run into that problem except for damage reduction. Throw in Improved Critical with a DB Pistol and it seems like you'll probably be able to bypass DR at least once per round with a x4 critical and that's without having a burst property. Interesting. Still a bit of a high feat tax though. I'd like to see something maybe a little closer to ranger with Combat Styles to help with that. I've seen it mentioned in one or two other threads and really think it would help the class out. Might not be needed, but I won't really know that until I actually play it. :) The Pathfinder Core Rulebook says a standard coin weighs about a 1/3 of a ounce (50 coins to a pound). Since I can craft my own ammunition with the Gunsmithing feat, how many silver bullets do you think I could make by melting down a single silver piece? To craft an alchemical silver bullet it would cost the Gunslinger 3 silver pieces (3gp x 10= 30sp x 10%= 3sp)worth of raw materials. But I'm talking about just melting a silver coin down and pouring it into the bullet mold. Silver's melting point is only 962C and the average temperature of a campfire is somewhere between 900-1100C so it would be possible to do this. What do you think? I could also make cold iron bullets for 2sp worth of raw materials if I had access to a forge?
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