Engineer and Physician both have abilities that let them "cast" spells and are based on skill ranks. The table starts at 10, and goes to 29 before hitting 20 again. I'm...confused. I'm assuming the last 20 should be a 30, but how is it possible for either class to reach 30 ranks in their respective skills? Does it go that far in case the GM decides to go into epic levels?
That's what I figured you were going for, but I just wanted to make sure.
Next question. There's a couple abilities like this that I'm curious about. Advanced Training - Hex says you gain the witches Hex ability, and may select one hex. Does it also give you a new hex every 2 levels like the standard hex ability says, or is it just the once?
Angel, Demon, Vampire, and Werewolf all say they gain access to various class/archetype abilities that they can take in place of talents or trainings. Does that allow them to take abilities that would normally replace each other?
For example, a Angel takes a standard Paladins aura of courage ability. Could they then later take the Holy Gun archetypes Shared Precision ability that normally replaces aura of courage?
Also, would you suggest limiting what level characters are able to take these abilities? As written, it seems to indicate that you could take capstone abilities at first level.
Although, now that I think about it, it does say the GM can restrict the list of choices (I love when that's actually specified, all but forces the players to clear things with the GM, rather than try to slip something past. Sneaky hobbitses). But I'd like an official ruling.
Damn and blast, I just found this product and found out I'm almost two years late for a free copy :P
Been wanting to run a modern zombie game, but with pathfinder. And I never really liked the way classes worked in d20 modern. I do like this though. :D
Once I was running a adventure in 3.5. There was a room that had a almost full page description. After finishing reading it to the group, they started making camp in there. Thing is, there was an ogre in the room. That the super long description never mentions. So, after the party is halfway setting up camp...
Me: So, what do you guys do about the ogre in the room?
Now, whenever I'm DMing, if I read a long description of ANYTHING, the players ask "Is there an ogre?"
Later in that same game, they opened a door to what the adventure described as a "long and dark hallway."
The hallway in question? 10 ft. long.
I'll never live down either of those.
Ice Titan wrote:
I was thinking the same thing. It's pretty clear that if you don't use that first request to keep your party safe, he'll just try to kill you all in order to get his eyes back. I think the DM was going really easy on you guys.
Is there a link somewhere to a collection of the more lesser known rules? My group only just realized that corporeal undead and constructs can be crit (we assumed their crit immunity carried over from 3.5, and our brains must have just added that to their immunity list). I'm just curious if there are other rule changes from 3.5 that might not be as noticeable.
I'd just like a little clarification on the Ronins Chosen Destiny ability. Specifically the second part. The way it's worded, it seems like anything that would activate on a critical (and a 20) would still activate. I've seen other abilities similar to this that say that any additional effects do not trigger. This ability lacks that.
So, a Ronin using a vorpal katana could, once a day, potentially kill something in one shot? I've seen no errata or anything saying it doesn't work that way, but I just want to make sure.
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Aye. Plus, there's no good reason why a good aligned cleric would EVER prepare a single cure spell, unless they somehow gave up the ability to burn spells for cures. If you have access to 1001 Spells, I advise using it to alter spell lists. Especially for any divine casters, as there's more combat oriented spells in there at lower levels. Not many, because divine casting still gets gimped on offense at lower levels, but there's more options than core. (Plus, it makes illusionists angry. The phantasmal line of spells are disgusting)
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Okay, yeah. I would say rebuilding some of the more important fights would be a good idea.
Personally, what I changed was:
Minor alterations to spell lists of any clerics during the Battle of Saintsbridge. I didn't feel that much needed to be changed with these fights, as sheer numbers did the job for depleting the parties resources.
Made sure the shield archons already had Divine Power cast before the start of their fight. (By the way, Gary. My players absolutely loved the artwork for the shield archons. They look so much more badass than in the bestiary.)
Added a second Peri to the fight in the phoenix temple.
Completely rebuilt the monk and oracle. Made the monk a style master (or whatever that archetype is called). Panther, Crane, and Snake style for the win. Gave the oracle plenty of buff spells, and what few damaging spells I could. Made sure some of the longer duration buffs were already cast.
I plan on rebuilding the ghost martyrs as well. As is, they can't really hurt my party, aside from the NPCs with them.
gustavo iglesias wrote:
My group is...efficient.
The two that were there were the half-ogre fighter with all of the shield fighting feats, full plate, natural armor, and a decent dex. His AC is in the mid 30's. The other was a blackblade/kensei Magus that has pummped Int and Dex, with bracers of armor and a ring of pro, his AC is also in the mid 30s. Most average enemies have a hard time touching them. Even the stronger enemies have trouble reliably hitting on more than one attack.
As for Sunlord Thalachos vs. Ara Mathra...
Sunlord Thalachos is more powerful at CR 15 than Ara Mathra is at CR 16. Really, all Ara has going for him is his silly list of immunities. I'll probably still throw a couple extra HD onto ST to up his CR to 16.
Keep in mind, my group tends to min/max (somehow without crippling their characters in their non-focused areas). Unless your group is similar, I wouldn't change much.
Well, we're already close to finished with book 3. All that's left now is the Cathedral.
The PCs basically handled the Battle of Saintsbridge on their own, while their army mowed through the enemy infantry. Any important fights (I.E., all the events) were handled directly by the PCs. They pretty much walked right through those fights. The only one that gave them much trouble was the final fight. They were a bit scattered on the bridge, and the magus was invisible. The closest target was the antipaladin when the clerics wwalked up. So he got four flame strikes to the face. Made all his saves, though, so he survived (albeit just barely).
They've decided to spare the children of the town. They plan on indoctrinating them all. Basically a Hitler Youth type thing. They also spared the mothers of the children, for now. They have to kill their own mothers later on in the indoctrination. (Pretty sure they got the idea from how the Unsullied in A Song of Ice and Fire are trained)
The player playing the Antipaladin wasn't able to make it to the last game, so there were only two players there, with me running Grumblejack and their Vitalist healbot cohort from Leadership. They handled the Peri pretty well. The Magus got close to death a couple times, but the Vitalist kept him alive. They really didn't want to deal with the Phoenix, and upon seeing the nest, immediately threatened the eggs and forced the Phoenix to leave forever.
Inside the labyrinth, they had fun with the riddles. The first two were pretty simple, and they solved them pretty quickly. The final one took two tries. After how long they spent trying to figure it out the first time, on the second try I let them make a check to notice a weird inflection on the key word (wick'ed... I assumed it was meant to be pronounced wicked, which made it tricky). After getting the clue, it took just a few seconds before one of them shouted the answer while bouncing in his chair.
We ended the night after the monk and oracle fight. I had to rebuild them a bit so that the monk could actually touch any of the PCs. Also gave the oracle Antilife Shell to keep her alive longer. At least until Grumblejack charged right through it and cleaved her in half.
So far this book is going by pretty quickly. I doubt it will take more than one or two more sessions to finish. I plan on changing Ara Mathra a bit as well. He seems a little underwhelming for a big solo fight. He might be fine for a normal group, but my group is certainly not normal. Maybe using one of the Divine Heralds...
If a creature has four arms, could they two weapon fight with two-handed weapons like greatswords? Or would they still be limited to a single two handed weapon?
If they can, how would you calculate damage from strength for the off-hand? Would it still be 1.5 Str because it's still got two arms swinging it, or would it be less because you're two-weapon fighting?
Wind Chime wrote:
The spell would go through the DR. Especially because it's labled as non-lethal cold damage.
I always thought that spells that dealt slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage were hindered by DR/- (or any DR that isn't DR/magic). Seems I was wrong. Learn something new every day. This makes some spells a bit more appealing (I always avoided spells that do those three damage types because I assumed DR would weaken them). I figured the same went for spells that dealt non-lethal damage.
Cold resistance would apply to that spell, though.
Well, my group has finally finished book two.
And we're all happy to have it behind us. Being in one location for so long really dragged on. It's a great book, but it took forever to get through. Doesn't help that my group (me included) gets easily distracted by anything shiny. Otherwise we might have finished two or three weeks ago. :P
The final battle was a bit entertaining. The magus (the bard players replacement) was taken down in the first round. He can do insane amount of damage to a single target, especially if he crits (and with a keen rapier, he does that fairly often). But he can't take a hit very well. Especially from a smiting paladin that is fully buffed and lands a crit. He opened the fight with a fireball on the good guys, and then ran up to them. Which was a horrible mistake. But after that, the rest of the party made pretty short work of them all. Grumblejack flying charged the paladin and crit him with a raging power attack with the warhammer the dwarf from earlier in the book was carrying. Sooooo, there went the paladin. The barbarian got handled pretty well by the player playing Grumblejacks kid (whos battlecry is "I'm so g&$!#$ned happy!" the face the player makes while saying that makes it even better). The antipaladin cleaned up the wizard and cleric pretty quickly with Grumblejacks help.
The dragon fight wasn't that bad on them either, but that was mostly because of lucky rolls on saves for the party. Two came very close to failing the save on the paralyzing breath in the opening round. And the Antipaladin got a lucky crit with his first hit with smite good. So that turned into 2d8+48+2d6. The dragon was not pleased. And then the magus got a crit with his rapier, after using one of his arcana to change all his damage to fire. They now plan on stuffing the dragon and using it as decoration in the future.
Book 3 starts next week.
Yeah. After seeing the rules in play, we realized they need a massive overhaul, and really don't work in a game not designed to use them.
Yeah, he's small, but still packs a 22 strength. The walls of the horn are going to be covered in crayon. And he wants to build a treehouse in the hangman tree. I don't think that'll happen. But its still amusing.
We realized it was trying to add the Mythic rules to the AP that screwed things. So we all agreed to hit the undo button on that and pretend mythic never happened. At least that stuff is easy enough to remove from a character since most of the things you get are entirely separate from your class.
In other news, our kitsune rogue died in the fight against Harkon (but the remaining characters dealt with him). The player decided to come back as a... Well... He's Grumblejacks child. Half-ogre with the young template....fighter. He's a hyperactive ball of metal that is too strong for his own good. It's both terrifying and amusing.
So...in the event of a TPK, how would you suggest proceeding?
I only ask because my players are having a bit of a rough time.
The moondogs have been watching the Horn and hitting it when one or two of the players head to town for something. They haven't succeeded in killing any players yet, but they have come close before having to turn and run. And now the players are dealing with Harkon coming in and ruining their day on a regular basis. They're convinced that his group is all under high powered Nondetection spells and think they're hiding somewhere in the Horn. The players killed Ezra and his wraiths, and their Daemons are currently out of commission. The players also still have to deal with the Treant and the Celestial chick (can't remember her name). They managed to completely bypass both of them when first coming to the Horn. So things are looking grim for our villains.
If the players die during this book and fail to retrieve the Tears, would you suggest going to the next book with new recruits? And if so, how would that influence future books?
I don't see any problems with it. I'd make sure to limit people to one Leadership feat. A strength based character taking a strength based Leadership is going to be just as well off as a charisma based character taking the normal Leadership. There's not really any ways to break it for a specific ability score.I like the names, but I think the Int based feat should be called Mastermind. It fits. Especially for an evil campaign :P
Like John there, I assumed that both of them were bound to the Horn. One it goes, they go. That's how I plan on playing it. My players are already out of control with their minion list. I had to rule that they ran out of Hydras in the area after a string of 20's on the hunt monster checks with their organization. It's bad enough that they got six of the things. -.-
So, my group took a rather hands on approach to that first group of adventurers...
They hid out near the mouth of the cave the morning they arrived, and then popped up to get a surprise round on them. The rogue chucked his sap at the Bard, knocking her out almost immediately (He's gone down the sap master feat tree...his nonlethal damage is frankly quite disgusting). The parties bard then facinated the fighter, cleric, and monk (terrible rolls on their will) and the Antipaladin got a lucky crit on the dwarf, dropping him immediately. They ended up feeding the monk, fighter, and dwarf to their hydras, locked up the cleric, and the parties bard took the bard adventurer as her own personal slave. She's branded and collared now.
Which I think is silly, because bane adds a +2 to the enhancement bonus. Unless the campaign focuses entirely around fighting a certain type of creature, the odds of you having the proper bane are relatively low. Even worse if you need a certain subtype.
Well, they could still get those abilities at tier 1. Trickster has at least two (might be all three) of the initial abilities that will bypass DR of any kind. If you've got a Monk that goes Guardian, they can get DR/epic at tier 1. Its still doable, but its less likely at tier 1 that they'll have it.
As for a mythic werewolf...I'd say its DR should be a special case... DR/epic AND silver.
You're the DM. Technically you could make it DR/cheesecake if you wanted.
I really want cheesecake...
doc the grey wrote:
Using Ride in place of Stealth. o.O
Slightly more reasonable, yet still crazy, is Sleight of Hand in place of Stealth.
"I steal myself so that no one can find me."
"Aren't you trained in Stealth?"
"Don't question me."
Use Magic Device in place of Diplomacy...
"Do Wizards count as magic devices?"
"Um... I don't think so..."
"Too bad, which button do I push to make him like me?"
I figured it would act like the other flaws in that you can never gain immunity to it.
Elemental vulnerability keeps you from ever benefiting from resistance or immunity to your vulnerability.
Material weakness causes that material to bypass any DR you have (as written, even a Barbarians DR/-)
Weapon weakness causes that weapon group to bypass any DR you have (also going through a Barbarians DR/-)
Makes sense that Hubris would ignore any immunity to fear.
Furious Rage: Whenever you are demoralized by the
Doesn't function as the spell...
Epic Meepo wrote:
I'm liking this one. The +10 to initiative isn't too insane, but will still put mythic characters above non-mythic in the initiative count in most cases, and the additional swift action is very useful with the new abilities in this book.
From a DM standpoint, I'm gonna keep Amazing Initiative as is for monsters and enemy NPCs that might have it. (maybe with the +10 instead of +20). I like the idea of enemies being able to do more, especially solo fights. It's always irked me when a party (even when I'm a player) just mows through the BBEG in a round or two and they don't get to do much.
Pendin Fust wrote:
Is it affected by things like Precise Shot or feats in general?
I'd assume it is affected by any abilities that don't require the attack to be made as a standard action or as part of a full-attack. So no Vital Strike, but Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack and the like will work.
Does the furious rage flaw cancel out a Barbarians rage?
Barbarian is raging, and then gets hit with a crit, triggering his furious rage mythic flaw. Does the furious rage completely override the existing rage, removing any bonuses, or does it instead "stack", giving another -2 AC and the inhibited skill use?
Oh god you're right. I never noticed that change. Now you only have 3 rounds before it comes back and starts to heal.
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
I'd like to see just another 10 levels. Any more than that is just sillyness. I don't think Mythic Adventures is the place to add that, but it would be a good jumping point in the future. With 10 more levels and 10 Mythic tiers, you're still punching CR 40s in the teeth. I honestly never saw the need to go much higher than that in Epic play. Everything broke down too fast anyways in Epic. Especially where casters were concerned.
This might be crazy...but...with the release of the Mythic Adventures playtest... Would it be too much to give the players Mythic abilities?
I was thinking about doing this at the end of this book. Mitra sees the players as a legitimate threat to the nation of Talingarde, and so grants his most devout followers with Mythic abilities. Asmodeus, seeing this, does this for the players so that they can fight this increased threat. Thorn would of course get it as well, or maybe he was Mythic the whole time (more likely). Encounters would of course have to be stepped up so that the characters don't just roll over everything in their path that isn't Mythic. Cohorts wouldn't get it, of course (sorry Grumblejack), but major NPCs (mostly enemies) would get it. I think, if done properly, it could lend a more epic feel to the battle for the future of Talingarde, and perhaps in the future, the world (my players have expressed interest in marching armies across the sea to impose the rule of Asmodeus after they take Talingarde).
Thoughts O Wise and Powerful Gary?