One quick question here: if someone were to do a PDF that expanded on the Evil Organization rules with more actions, more trouble your group could get into, etc, would anyone else be interested in buying it? Because to me it's one of THE best articles that have been included in the entire AP.
Yeees please. The version in the AP is good. But if it can be expanded that's a great add-on !
I'd surely pay for anything that enhances the Evilish feeling (having minions is surely a large chunk of it).
I must reiterate that I'm having a blast with this adventure.
Some of the things I've enjoyed:
- not having to look stats up in other books (makes prepping much easier)
- that at each stage, the mission for the PCs is well identified (unlike some adventures where you have an over arcing goal, but the small steps to get there are 'lost' in the big scheme of things)
- that the PCs aren't railroaded into a certain action, there are many ways to get to their goals and achieve mission success
- that the main enemies aren't 'monsters', and thus numerous role-playing opportunities between the players and the DM
- that the group cohesion (via Cardinal Thorn & the Pact) really makes the 'evil' party work, and prevents the normal backstabbiness that seems to occur with evil PCs
Well done Gary!
Keep up the good work. Looking foward to Book VI! And of course the next AP as well. :)
John
100% agreed with that.
I just Gmed RotRL before and it was much harder to GM than this one (Specially for stats and all that prep work).
They are so scarred to attack captain Odenkirk as they saw how he was easily smashing lots of opponents. So they are really plotting to kill him in a swift way.
My players were surprised to understand that there is no such a thing as a real Wall for the Watch wall. So they say. Why invade Balentyne ?
We can either build rafts and cross the lake with the army OR build a "small portable" wooden bridge carried by the hill giants and then cross the river wherever they want above the rift.
I told them that some war galleys were pattroling on Lake Tarik so they said "OK, but in these cold areas there must be heavy fog sometimes and so we can cross unseen Otherwise, we can choose option N°2 (the bridge).".
In fact well I dunno what to say.
Why do they HAVE to take Balentyne ? Why don't they move accross the fields and don't take Balentyne and spread rampage and destruction ?
Surely the 100 or so soldiers in Balentyne wouldn't stand a chance against the bugbear army in the open field. So there would be nothing they could really do.
What do you think ? What shall I answer to my PCs ?
I perfectly understand that the whole point of the summoner IS the Eidolon. My question is more like "which magic items would make the summoner say "Yeah I'd really love to have that".
OK when I look at the summoner, I see that the real beast in the eidolon NOT the summoner, I have the feeling that the summoner is only here to buff his eidolon.
One of my PC started as a summoner. In general I try to have cool items and things for my PC, specialy customized for them.
So... My question is .. what can i propose to the summoner. He's not a fighter, not really a spellcaster .... any ideas are more than welcome.
Drow-Blooded: Some half-elves born of drow parents exhibit more drow traits than others—particularly many of the physical features of the drow—and have darkvision 60 feet and light blindness. This racial trait replaces the low-light vision racial trait.
So that's pretty cool as all my PCs have darkvision. Which is good for stealth and use of darkness spells.
@Doug : Yeah I added the inquisitor described around 600 posts before . with Sir Balin and Timeon. it was great RP opportunities and I really thank you guys for all the ideas you share with us. Please keep on rocking ^^
We just finished our 4th session (4-5 hours each) with the 9 lessons. And here is how it went
Spoiler:
The party is made of
a drow ninja,
a gobelin rogue
a tiefelin rogue
and a half drow summoner (female).
So strongly orientated towards stealth and treachery, the summoner with its high charisma being the party face.
Surpringly they didn't detect all the traps and went quite bluntly through them (bluntly for them at least). Then they arrived to timeon. Instead of torturing him they told him that they were trapped too and were trying to escape so he should come along if he didn't want to be tortured. Since they had the circlets they were all disguised beforehand, the goblin as a scared child and all of them had their asmodeus medalion beneath their clothes.
They had already met Timeon and Sir Balin who was looking for the escaped prisonners and came knocking at the manor just after thei escape, but before the nine lessons. (I was following a suggestion from Kevin Video or Doug ?) The summoner pretended to be the owner of the manor and when Sir Balin said he was looking for escaped prisoners, the summoner PC begged to get some soldiers for her protection. "No one will help a damsel in distress?". Sir balin told her he would arrest the scums in no time but he had to move on unfortunately.... IT was so funny.
Anyway ... so Timeon being so gullible and having already seen this lady, gave all the hints he knew. They were therefore well aware of what was about to happen.
Through the Mitral Cobras, the team decided it was a tough enemy. The eidolon and a summoned dog handled the cobras long enough for the PCs to pass through this room without fighting. The eidolon was "dead" for 24 hours. For the shreiker they all went in quietly (without light since they all have darkvision). They were pretty scared since they didn't really know what a shrieker was and were very careful not to make any noise.
For the Draug they got rid of them very easily since the draug took a long time to wake up (I had rolled round 2,3, 5 and 6). So they've been killed again without a sweat.
Finally came the hilarious part.
Timeon opened the last door. Since they know it was the last door they were expecting a major trap.
But what a surprise when they saw Sir Balin who was relieved to see his squire alive. Again they persuaded Balin that they were trapped too. Our summoner again begged him, cried for help.
Sir Balin, almost as gullible as his squire was ready to fight asmodeus himself. This moment was a great time for roleplaying and deception.
Sir balin quite easily killed both cobras (since he had a potion I ruled out he had lost 3D6 HP and didn't want to bother too much about it). He went back all the way to room 1 and then climbed the stairs with the party closely following, the summoner told me "Adriastus said he wants the medalion, I bring him the medalion, nothing in the "contract" says i have to bring it alone" I was laughing my head off. Sir balin met a few servants which he slaughtered for those who were not quick enough to escape. I decided that Thorn would be very interested to see how things would go and would not interfere. Finally Sir Balin saw the exit door and pushed hard the PCs to escape from this horror mansion. He would go with them to get some reinforcements.
Obviously the PC didn't want him to escape and finally, while the summoner was catching his attention, both rogues and the ninja decided to backstab him. With good rolls he fell in one round.
Thorn was at the same time upset of the mess they made (specially Tiadora for the loss of minions) and very happy of the creative solution his knot took. But finally he decided that only the completion of the objective mattered and congratulated them.
It was a very good session for both GM and players. At first I was a bit "wary" as they do not like dungeons too much. But they said they really enjoyed this one and the lessons each time.
Agreed with Kevin Video. You are Wicked but secrecy is your most precious ally.
I think it is not stated enough but the conspiracy has to be kept secret at least until book III and even further.
The aim is not to kill all.
Mind you if you think it works for your game.
Gary made a great point by adding plot XPs and so on.
For me the aim is to escape from Brandenscar. They did that ? Then they get enough Xps more or less to be lvl 2.
If they do some rampage in BRandenscar then they get more gear (useful at lvl 1 but no more useful later) and may be a bit more Xps.
If you want to do lvl up at a given point in adventure, it's even better. Then you get rid of the whole Xp issue.
That is VERY cool John Hare. Including potion of enlarge person. The king has been trained by the best. So he should know all tricks.
He's THE king after all. ^^
If you have complete stats I would be delighted to see it.
Also something unclear on the feat "Sacrificial channel"
"If the creature
dies and has at least as many Hit Dice as the number
of dice you roll for channel negative energy, the channel
heals all evil creatures (living and undead) within a 30-
foot burst instead of its normal effect."
Is it heal as per the heal spell ? If not, what is the amount of healing ?
My opinion is that you receive the same amount of healing as the channel energy. So the advantage is that you heal both living and undead ?
What if some other ennemy are dying around (but not dead) in the 30ft area ? Do they get healed too ?
To be perfectly honest I'm not overwhelmed by the usefulness of these feats, given that you have to give up (for Devil's pact) the possibility to be resurrected by standard means.
At some point I thought Book 5 would have had new anti paladin class ? As the paizo's antipaladin isn't really good (I mean isn't really wicked as such).
Though the two articles about vampires and liches have generated a lot of discussion (and I'll be addressing more about that throughout the day), it is important to remember ... this adventure path is not primarily about either.
It is about playing villianous PCs.
Twelve pages of the more than 600 pages of the AP when finished are dedicated in two appendices to this play option.
My English is bad and therefore you misunderstood me. Or perharps you still suffer from all sort of conditions "Fatigued, Exhausted, dazzled, sickened, shaken, Insanity?...". Or may be all of it?
Anyway, these new vampiric rules don't bug me at all . I find them great. I don't want to throw everything to the bin.
My players are in Book 1 act II and some of them want to become vampires. Could I have Tiadora as a vampire to turn them into vampires and not change anything else?
end of book III as suggested is a bit too far for my taste.
Also, the "Initiated" vampire level is missing a part of the sentence "If brought to 0 hit points...". and the sentence stops.
Finally, Unlike some of my fellow comrades here, a 5 feat tax which gives you 6 feat in the end is far from being a hard price to pay. And that doesn't include all the good boons you get for being a vampire.
The private dwelling is rather unclear. What should be considered a private dwelling ?
Is the tower gate in act III a private dwelling, would an inn be considered as a private dwelling, a castle ?
I am reading your article on becoming a vampire. Can you be more precise on what you gain at the last vampire level ?
Also I like the adventure as it is with Asmodeus involved and don't like too much the alternate adventure for vampires.
My PCs are now in Act II book 1. Could I have Tiadora as a vampire ? or should I add someone else ? I understand they could get bitten in Book III too but it seems late already (13th lvl).
I find the story so Fan- Tastic that I don't want to change the whole "Asmodeus is watching you " thing... ^^
Has someone spelled out the three prayers the pc must recitate each day? I would love to have the pc at least twice (beginning of the ritual and the last time) say "something" other than just: "we perform the ritual and prayer".
I mean the Supplication to Darkness, the Cursing of the Light and the Call across the Void.
That would be sooooo cool ! May be not 222 times though ^^
Thanks Gary for the information.
Well 2000 copies is at the same time "a lot" but so little given the great great GREAT campaign you have made with also great illustrations (apart book 1 cover).2000 also includes PDF sales ?
I find it so good ...
oh btw don't worry about the slaughtering and all that. My players loved being really evil and slaughter innocent people "just for the sake of it". Funny how a guys always playing a paladin in other games can become a mass murderer in a flick of the switch. ^^
Thanks to everyone for ideas on the amnesiac character. It has helped a lot.
One question, which books do you find useful for this campaign ? I was looking at a preview of "book of the damned" or the companion "Faiths of Evil" or whatever the name was. If someone has them do you find them useful for this specific campaign.
When I read Asmodeus on the old "Gods of Golarion" book I find the asmodeus description rather stereotyped and not appealing to anyone to worship this god.
I tried to insist on Asmodeus being typically a god for merchants and lawyers with harsh punishments if you don't follow the rules/contracts.
Anyway the question is, which books do you find useful for this specific campaign ?
One of player didn't have much time to create his background so all he told me was "My character is suffering from amnesia. So he doesn't "know" his background". a la "John Doe".
Basically it's up to me to decide his background and my aim is to give him bits as we run the AP.
The character is a drow, ninja and we settled for a crime "consort with dark powers", all he remembers is that when he got arrested he was covered in blood with many corpses around and a pentagram.
Adriastus Thorn told him he was called "Seven Deaths" as he was dead seven times already. I told him that but I had no idea where I was going to.
Now if you have some ideas to flesh his background.I would like to create something rather extraordinary. May be he WAS one of the pale Horsemen. This could lead to some additional abilities as his memory comes back.
I would allow it. Time stop has been nerfed enough. But i don't know if it's RAW.
Now for the number of rounds, it really starts once time starts again.
A teleport ring with 1 charge left would cost
1,800 (command word) x 5 (spell level) x 9 (caster level) = 81,000 gp divided by 2 since it's charged and divided by 50 = 810 gp not 162 gp
The example given is the ring of ram with 50 charges you give (see p550 of CRB)
Charged (50 charges) 1/2 unlimited use base price Ring of the ram
Therefore such a ring would cost 810 gp. It's either the ring 1/day (i.e 81000 gp) or 50 charges. Not both.
May be you should use common sense instead of maths also as it doesn't solve all and that's how you end up with rings of cure light wounds for 3.6 gp, 4 times cheaper than a wand and which has the huge advantage of being usable by any class.
This single ring charge would cost less that the price of the ring by itself (high quality since it's a magic item).
I mean we know pathfinder, D&D and so on have many flaws. Sometimes, common sense is better than a set of rules if they fail.
But mind you, if that suits your game, who am I to disagree with that?
As MArk says I would never agree to have some of these available regularly and on top of that my idea qould be that they have a minimum price (at leat a couple of thousand gold).
Well there's been many statements by Paizo staff that the formulas were just rough guidelines and in any case, the price of the item should be compared to an already existing equivalent item.
These formulas really have their flaws and many have tried to exploit them
Now if your GM agrees with this bug exploit then whatever goes really.
Oh by the way if you go this way why bother ? Buy yourself a ring of a a single 9th level spell for 5382 gp which you can do once you are level 5....or a ring of a single cure light wounds for 3.6 gp ?
Buy 30 of these at first level and you're fine really.
I know for sure I would never agree.
Being bad guy doesn't mean exploiting any metagaming bug you find.
Don't worry too much. In the great campaign of "Way of the Wicked" my party is made up of 2 rogues, 1 ninja and an invoker. I think it's going to be great fun (they just have to understand they don't play typical D&D but it can be great great fun with ambushes, hide in shadows and so on...)
Nevertheless for unexperienced players it can be tough. So go easy on them first and let them have creative ideas.
Long time ago, I had very little money to play and therefore had 3 or 4 minis(it wass the boxed version of D&D). Now I'm earning a good salary (good enough to live with it) and bought tons of minis, map pack and so many stuffs.
Well I have to say it doesn't add much to the game after all.
Before that the battles were more lively, now I regret that it only turns up to pushing minis on the battlemap.
I suppose that's also because the rules in Pathfinder and much much more complicated than they used to be. I hope the next version of pathfinder will be much much simpler and easy to roll.
Now back to the OP.
Remove minis most of the time and be more descriptive. Some people will cry and will say they can't use their capabilities to their best or whatever but well they have to live with it.
Music helps but it's like salt and pepper. Use it to add spice. But if you put it everywhere and all the time well its more a noise pollution.
Thinking about it I may remove the minis for some time in my own game.
Math is good but numbers can be fooled. As said in the creation paragraphs, these are just guidelines. Although the best way is to compare it to already existing items.
A single use ring of teleport is really equivalent to a teleport scroll (only the casing is different).
For a scroll lvl 5 it's 2500 gp to buy it. Now since scrolls can only be used by wizards but a ring can be used by anyone. So i would at least add 50% or even 100% to the cost for 5000 gp
It's not stopping creative ideas, it's just avoiding some inconsistencies.
I am not excited by this stat book but I can understand some are.
As A DM if i have to make up an NPC on the run then I'll just take what's existing and add some abilities as we go through.
The most important is that my players have fun and not the stats behind it.
Of course things get mote and more complicated as lvl increase but well, that's part of the fun being GM.
I mostly know the core classes abilities and much less the APG, ultimate classes. So I would have prefered to have some of these if any.
But well ... I DON'T have to buy it.
Nothing harsh against you Paizo people. When things are great I really state it also.
Took a long time to create the characters and I think they really wanted to make a good background.
Players were.
Half-drow Summoner
Drow Ninja
Gobelin Rogue
Human Rogue (Knife master)
As you see the healing will really be a problem but well ...
We used the focus & foible method and it was great (except the gob rolled REALLY bad twice in a row (on 8 rolls no roll better than 5 at maximum).
I was expecting an escape from Brandenscar a la impossible mission with 3/4 of the team able to do stealth easily (Gob allready got +18 in stealth)....
Spoiler:
But well ... they decided to unleash Grumblejack and tell him to kill the soldiers they came with. Unfortunately, the heavy attack allowed one of the soldier to blow his horn and then ... it was nightmare.
My players rolled very very low to hit the soldiers. So some reinforcements arrived and the PCs where being overwhelmed. I decided they would hit the meanest before ie grumblejack who quickly fell.
The PCs barely killed 4 guards and the remaining guard escaped, to seek some reinforcement.
The PCs used the windows in the dormitory to escape and avoid the main doors. Now they are on the wall trying to hide while Sergent Tomas is looking for them.
They really hate this one and they really want to have a go at him.
So there are now 2 patrols looking for them, each one with a dog and one of them with tomas.
Would the Warden go with another patrol ? I suppose so.
Sorry if I sound like a teacher but it seems you often mix up between east and west and eastern and western.
I think I saw it at least a couple of times in book 1 and book 2 may be you should double cheack your books and if you errata them.
I remember in book 2 you were talking about FarenHolde on eastern coast. I remember I read a few other glitches in book 1.
here are a few examples.
p39 "It takes a week for the
ship to pass along the settled coast of Talingarde passing
the great city of Daveryn, the largest center of civilization
along the western coast."
p81
and the western port of
Daveryn
Talking about Yutak.
p81
These Yutak umiaks will sail into
one of the western ports
travellers along the western coast tell tales
of Yutak who without invitation join Talireans around
a campfire
shouldn't all these be eastern/east ?
Also, In book 1 in the description of Talingarde at the end of the book you talk about it being part of an archipelago.
On the map there are only 2 islands (English isn't my mother tongue so may be archipelago starts at 2 islands but my idea is that it would mean many islands).
Or may be you mean that there are many, many more islands which are not on the map?
Talingarde is an archipelago consisting of more than
a hundred islands. This archipelago may be divided into
six regions each with their own unique character: The
Cambrian Ports, The Heartland, the Borderlands, the
Caer Bryr, the Savage North and the Land of the Yutak.
I understand the statement but is it Talingarde or the archipelago made of 6 regions.
Again the aim is not to blame you for errors but to help improve the text.
If I misunderstood or made an error I am truly sorry. English isn't my mother tongue.
"Me frrrrench, me eat garlic and frogs, wear beret and all the stereotypes. me stoopid." ^^
If the Animal Archive is "animal companions for everybody," here's hoping this is something similar with regard to trapfinding...
We can only hope. Keeping the disarming of magical traps to characters with a specific class feature is, in my opinion, one of the few faulty mechanics that Pathfinder decided to keep from 3.5.
ANyone can detect and disarm standard traps.
Any magic user (with dispel magic) can disarm a magical trap as well as the rogue.
