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Yeah but summoner spells are limited in both per day casting and how many you can choose from. As a melee summoner you may want to focus more on self buffing rather than other spells that are situational based upon campaign.


For a melee summoner, would taking a few levels of Bloodrager to get things like blooded arcane strike and mad magic be considered a viable option?

I was just thinking about this idea, and while I liked the Blood God Disciple it gives up good stuff for not that good stuff. So I'm thinking maybe a few levels of Bloodrager to regular summoner can make up the difference.

What do you guys think about it? Also, would bloodline even matter in this case?

You could definitely work out some different bloodrager archetypes without many issues because you're not going to stay in bloodrager that long. I'd say 4 levels max.


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The Yojimbo class would be awesome if it was more like Toshiro Mifune from the original movie.


Actually that would be pretty cool.
Could detail a number of groups and organizations that have been mentioned previously in the past once or twice and go into further detail on them.


Whatever class Zatoichi is, you should pick that.


Charisma based martials, of them my favs are Daring Champion Cav (even regular Cav is pretty damn good as a Charisma martial) & Bloodrager.

However, Fighter can also be a good choice provided you pick the right archetype and feat combination.


Hmm, I wonder how well some things like from the Weapon's Master's Handbook work with this class.


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So, any chance this guide will be updated for the latest archetypes and builds out there?


Hey, I'm working on a character that is built specifically for a River Kingdoms / Tymon / Razmir campaign.
He's a half-orc, Drill Sergeant and Mutation Warrior being the archetypes used.

Weapon Masters Handbook is in full use for this campaign, as are a number of others, some stuff from the occult as well.

I'm looking for something flavorful and still effective in a campaign, and I'm wondering specifically about that fighting style in the weapon master's handbook, Orc Fury Style.

Being that we're going up against Razmiran and the armies of Razmir, I can imagine all sorts of Arcane casters masquerading as holy men will be available to fight. As well as other stuff.

Do people find Orc Fury style useful for both intimidating as well as getting a bonus against mages or anything shaken with an SLA? Would Orc Fury style still considered to be in effect if you use Dazzling Display as well? If so, that might make a group of spellcasters that less powerful against my big guy (actually, he's not that big, strong but more of a runt of the litter in size, hence the reliance on mutagens).

It's an awesome flavorful style, but it's an investment, even for a fighter.


If anyone has seen the books, what sort of background info does it deep dive into with the Urdefhans?


Just saw this. Dotting for later but I'm interested.


So will we get further in depth details about the kill or be killed social structures of Urdefhan? Any info on their leadership and cities as well? Military structure? Distinct breed of magic?


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Depends on if you've read the Monster Codex. While no images of the beast were showed, there were stats for a fully ancient and super charged Troglodyte that was essentially a precursor before their civilization fell.


I definitely want to hear about the wars that Urdefhan wage against other races, maybe even have more revealed about the upper echelons of their society, stuff like that.

Part of me loves the idea of an Urdefhan mercenary who is a Chaotic Evil renegade and worships something other than Szuriel or one of the other horse men, instead signed on with some other racial group and plies death and violence along the silent sea, all for slaves, gold, and power.

Maybe he's got Hezrou or Balor blood in his veins, maybe he hears the whispers of the Rough Beast. Or he simply finds the roar of battle and the eternal clash of steel that Gorum promises in the hereafter too grand for him to pass up. Perhaps he's discovered a way to sever the ties Abaddon has over his soul.

The horse men, and daemons in general, just always come across as too depressing for me. Just kind of meh maybe tho that's because I take their nihilism to the forefront.


Set wrote:

Duergar have felt kind of like the boring stepcousins of the underdark/darklands in most games, far behind the sexy, sexy Drow, so it could be neat to see something to flavor them up a bit. They occasionally had a focus on psionics, so one way to take them into a newer direction would be to Occult them up with psychics and mesmerists, and leave the Drow more focused on divine and arcane magics...

Troglodytes and Vegepygmies also could use some fleshing out, for that matter.

I agree with all your points. I'd also like to see the Deurgar fleshed out in other ways. There's something about their society that seems TOO organized. I'd like more of it fleshed out about renegade or fallen deurgar too.


Urdefhan AND Munavris (who may or may not be descendants of ancient Azlanti, who knows) in the same book? First day purchase on PDF for me.


Should you go improved familiar you can take a small earth elemental.


I was gonna say Oracle VMC as well.


I'm not the biggest fan of Whirlwind attack simply because it's more situational than not. Circling Mongoose is a good way to make the most of sneak attack if you please.


Intelligence should be a high Stat for a vanguard slayer. Dexterity is less important because eventually you'll be going first no matter what. As an obvious front liner, you should consider constitution as a fairly high score as well.

Will your vanguard slayer be a dedicated support type in terms of tactics? If so, you can focus on a combination of dirty tricks and tactician feats. If you want, you can also vmc Cavalier for more tactician goodness.

If you're a front liner first and foremost, you'll want to maximize sneak attack opportunities plus other forms of damage. I suggest vmc into barbarian, alchemist, or rogue as viable possibilities.

Personally I prefer greatsword and vmc into barbarian or fighter. As a half orc, you have a great opportunity for a number of feats and abilities not normally available, and you still have the option of taking heritage feats plus the human favored bonus for gaining even more feat possibilities.


Magnetic Monowire Bouncing Bolas from Numeria. Nice.


I'd agree. My suggestion with regards to a Brigh or Gorum is do be able to use channel to bring about some sort of surge in robots and constructs. Maybe gain the leadership feat immediately but only with robots, and using that cohort as both a familiar in sharing/delivering spells and as a servant of some sort, adding additional bonuses.

Depending on what kind of divine class you are, the prc could grant bonuses, as well as what God's you worship. Use some sort of robotic surge for the purposes of gaining control over robots and constructs controlled by others. Gain additional uses if you have the channel energy class feature. If you have judgements, you gain the ability to do certain things with robots and constructs, etc.

I'd also suggest putting some focus on tthe impossible bloodline if you can, to look at that as some sort of inspiration.


Very nice. What sort of upgrades will he build himself in later encounters? What sort of body do you have in mind? His spider bot type? Something bigger?


Just got interesting for a strength based swashbuckler or maybe a strength based Daring Champion.


Actually, now I'm wondering this as well. I think I was looking at stuff like this, combined with Ride-By Attack and Mounted Skirmisher probably confused me and what not.


Does the mount count as an ally for the purpose of a fighters tactics as shown in the Weapon Master's handbook?

If so, a fighter with access to a mount can certainly become a lesser sort of a full attack monster without having to vmc into barbarian for beast totem.


Now I'm a bit torn. I'm creating a character, devout Gorumite, loosely based on Roman Von Ungern Sternberg hailing from Imperial Molthune.

Two handed fighter will be the mainstay class, and I will work enough feats in for him to be able to get a mount and some mounted combat feats.

Now, I've decided to make his charisma high enough for me to get Eldritch Heritage Orc bloodline, for the boost in killing potential.

Now I'm a bit torn. Should I vmc Cavalier and go full challenge potential for major battles via order of the flame and chain challenge or go the mystic route and vmc him into a cleric and emphasize the destruction domain, negative energy, and picking up feats like channel viciousness and that armor training feat for Gorumite clerics.


Hmm, I'm wondering if there's something here that can make my bloodrager more effective.


What's killing me now is the number of options that are quickly becoming available to other classes that variant multiclass fighter right in there. This combined with the armor master handbook will definitely make things quite interesting.

Barbarian VMC Fighter now can deflect incoming spells as well as sunder them.

Thunderstriker fighter is incredibly effective when coupled with a greatsword and sword style. If you VMC barbarian and take defensive stance (the one that adds armor class) as a rage power, you can get some sick armor class.

In addition Myrmidarch can do great 1 handed damage with a rapier or heavy pick.

Bloodrager too can get some tremendous options by vmc fighter. Destined and Steele blood with fighter, or urban barb with fighter all have some ohenomenal options.

Has Ustalav duelist been made viable as well? I wonder...


Ok, well I'm working on a Two-Handed Fighter Archetype with the new weapon master book out. Looking for a good or interesting VMC to take. Obvious choice is barbarian for the damage and strength stance, plus ground breaker rage power if I feel like it.
Still, I'm looking for something more than simple combat, but I'm coming up with some blanks as to how. Cavalier could be interesting. So could Magus.
Overall, I'm just looking for some possible options other than the very obvious barbarian. Cavalier and the Order of Vengeance could be good.


Well, you can look to rulers of current nations and past nations for inspiration.

Xin was Lawful Neutral. The other Runelords were all evil, to varying degrees be it lawful, neutral, or chaotic evil.

The Crown Prince Stavian III of Taldor is Chaotic Neutral.

The Queen of Mendev is Lawful Good, but Good does not necessarily mean nice, especially when the border nation is the World Wound.

Kevoth Kul is Chaotic Neutral, and currently obsessed with fulfilling his own hedonistic desires and depredations, though before his desires were more about conquest.

Grask Uldeth is Chaotic Evil. Utterly unforgiving, enforcing his law through violent means which are necessary due to the nature of Orcs. However, he's highly intelligent and a bit of an idealist in the sense that he wants his people to take to his ways, so they can move forward into a new era.

Mengkagare is supposed to be Lawful Good, but good is not nice, and aspects of his perfect society, this concept of improving man, are the stuff of eugenics programs that we shudder when we think about.

The list goes on. Alignment doesn't mean much. Grask Uldeth for instance is quite cosmopolitan, but still uses evil means to enforce his will. Would he be so evil were he an Orc ruler in lands where humans or other races were the majority? Possibly. The truth is he wants more for his tribe, and for his people as a whole. If he were a king or warlord in human lands, even as an Orc, he probably wouldn't be so utterly barbaric, considering his intelligence. However, circumstances demand action. You should definitely take that sort of thing into consideration as well for alignment.


Ayep


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With sword style, the aldori sword lord is essentially hitting back if you miss or hit him. Can be interesting.


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The book is missing two things:
A decidedly Rovagug divine style of combat.
A sword style that doesn't involve combat expertise.


Would Gorum's Swordsmanship (vital strike at the end of a charge) work with pounce or hurtful? I ask about hurtful because it counts as an attack of opportunity. Meanwhile Gorum's Swordsmanship doesn't say that it's a vital strike action being done as part of a charge, but rather you can apply it's effects at the end of one. That makes me think it might work with pounce. I'm wondering if the barbarian and fighter vmc barbarian just got nastier when you charge and use this plus hurtful (for barbarian it would be undead bloodline plus beast totem plus hurtful, bunch of vital strike attacks on the charge as part of a full attack.)


So it's possible to get weapon training +5?


What's everyone's opinion on this idea? Hell, would the weapon training even stack at this point or is it more of a waste? With the new stuff from the weapon master's book, what would be a good variant multiclass for Myrmidarch now?


Does the first aspect of Gorum's Swordsmanship work with all attacks on a charge or just the first?


I'm overwhelmed with the awesome options for my half orc two handed fighter vmc barbarian. I'm wondering if Fighters Tactics works with animal companions and mounts as well.


Well, now I have a question specifically regarding swordplay style. Is it relegated to 1 handed only weapons? The initial feat simply designates a weapon you have weapon focus in.

While I do think it's intended to be used for 1 handed weapons, I think it would definitely be awesome for 2 handed blades as well.


You can if you VMC the fighter.


Armor training 2 does that doesn't it?


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This wait is killing me.


I don't know if it was or not, but I'd like to think that it was part of the thought process behind exchanging weapon training for stuff.

Even if it's not, it's a great option overall for a LOT of different fighter archetypes that keep weapon training.
Rondelero Fighter just got a bit more interesting as well.


Ok, I read the entry regarding Orc religion in the most recent races of Golarion.

Absolutely love the fact that legends of an Orc beating the Nightripper's kill count will experience some sort of apotheosis, demonic or otherwise.

I'm wondering what form this apotheosis would actually take. Would mythic levels be appropriate? I think if the Orc murdered that many people by then, he already would have had mythic levels just to get there. Would the Nightripper be pushed aside by Lamashtu in favor of this new, promising individual?

I'm curious because I'm part of a group that's doing an all Belkzen/Mammoth Lord realm type of campaign, and this type of individual came up as a possibility for a major baddy (not necessarily the big bad, that is Zutha) but an individual that could definitely become someone who is a danger during the campaign and then afterwards is a real threat to the party afterwards.

What sort of suggestions does everyone have for this person, statwise? As an Orc worshiper of the Nightripper, he/she should definitely exemplify the more devious, cunning nature that Orcs are known for. The worshiper should even be approachable easily, able to blend in, difficult to pick out of a crowd in order to keep count.


So how many different types of advanced weapon training options are there? I get the pdf when it comes out, and the fact that I always play martials, this wait is driving me nuts.

Are there different routes you can take with the advanced weapon training options, similar to the fighting style feats I mean. If you want to focus on a certain type of ability, you go this route, etc.

Are they straight up exchanges for specific weapon training? This particular one replaces weapon training 3, this replaces 2, this replaces weapon mastery, etc?

What sort of enhancements can I do with this sort of stuff? I heard knocking boulders out of the air, which is cool and all, but what else? Are some of these the equivalent to rage powers in respect towards what they accomplish? Flavorful and class changing? What's the story?

I'm dying over here!!!


I wonder if this will allow us to trade out various armor training for special abilities the way the WMPC does weapon training. If so, with these two books, you can essentially make a regular fighter something different from the core entirely.


So, let me ask this because I haven't gotten anything yet cause the pdf isn't out til the 18th. What is available to orcs and half-orcs? I saw mention of Orc style, but what else is there that is referenced to orcs or for the orcish race? Any references in general or specific stuff that can make playing an Orc melee monster more fun?

Orc fighting style Bullying blow stuff with a falchion or greataxe is awesome either way.


I can't wait to see this. It offers great options for classes and archetypes that keep Weapon Training, like Mutation Warrior, Two Handed Fighter, and the woefully underpowered weapon master. I'm on pins and needles right now.


This will be a day 1 pdf purchase for me.

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