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Take the social trait Adopted: http://archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Adopted

and you can be a half-orc or whatever with dwarven weapon proficiencies.


Hmmm, I wonder if they will replace sneak attack with bonuses to combat maneuvers and additional damage with them.

I'd also love to finally see an archetype that allows for heavy armor and keeping the combat style feats.

I know it's not the style, but Bounty Hunters can take all sorts, not just lightly armored fellows but big guys that just wade into it.


I hope there will be an Arcane Duelist archetype of this build available. That would be friggin hardcore, a half-orc Ulfen Skald Berserker or something.


Wow, the Nanite sorcerer bloodline might actually a new fav for eldritch heritage based fighters.


Not bad.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm not complaining the slayer is too good, I'm complaining the fighter isn't good enough.


We've done games where you could only play prestige classes at a certain point and had to choose by level 10. Was pretty good actually.


That's... sad actually.


What's wrong with Improved Will not being a combat feat? This is part of their abilities, not necessarily their normal bonus feat structure.

And for the most part, fighter's aren't MAD. They need either Str or Dex, and then take Con and Wis. For some of the modifications I suggested, you get those feats even if you don't meet the prerequisites, meaning for Improved Disarm and such no Int 13 or Combat Expertise, etc. And for my characters, I usually go Charisma heavy if I feel like it for the Eldritch Heritage and the ability to talk if I want to.

One of my suggestions earlier tho was for a change to Weapon Training, make it start from level 1 and go to 17 (1,5,9,13,17) so you get a +5 instead of a +4. And for each improvement, you have the option of taking a single weapon feat (like weapon focus) and applying it to all weapons in that fighter group.

So at level 1, you take axes, and apply weapon focus to all axes, 1 and 2 handed etc. Then at level 5, you can take Weapon Specialization or another weapon feat that usually applies to one weapon, and apply it to all axes, or instead have another feat and apply it to another weapon group. So, by level 9, I could have Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Improved Critical applied to all Axes if I wanted to. It allows me to specialize without limiting myself to a single weapon, but rather a weapon group. And I would still get bonuses to attack and damage in other fighter weapon groups, just not the benefit of those feats. I'd have to choose them individually for those weapons or choose them at the proper level for that fighter weapon group.

Overall, probably fighters just need a few tweaks to be made more modern pathfinderish and less 3.5ish, because 3 and 3.5 were flawed, and while PF makes some improvements, the base flaws of the fighter are still there unfortunately.


Holy crap this is awesome!!!!
I love Thassilon, and the fact that Tar-Baphon got so much of his ability from that old world knowledge and power. Didn't know there was a city from Thassilon on that old island though. That is AWESOME, but did Thassilon extend out that far or was it a wayward colony?


I think I kinda like the version of Bravery and the stuff that goes with it that I wrote in an earlier post. To clarify further as examples for Bravery and those Archetypes that modify it.

Bravery: Starting at 2nd level, a fighter gains a +1 bonus on Will saves against mind affecting effects and spells. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd. At 6th level, you gain the Iron Will feat. At 10th level, you gain Improved Iron Will. At 14th level, this bonus becomes an untyped bonus to Will Saves that effects all will saving throws and you gain the Stoic feat. At 18th level, you gain the Heroic Will feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisites.

Two Handed Fighter
Shattering Strike (Ex): At 2nd level, a two-handed fighter gains a +1 bonus to CMB and CMD on sunder attempts and on damage rolls made against objects. These bonuses increase by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd. This ability replaces bravery. At 6th level, you gain Improved Sunder as a bonus feat. At 10th level, you gain Greater Sunder and can ignore hardness when sundering up to half your character level. At 14th level, you gain Sundering Critical as a bonus feat and now increase the hardness of your own weapons and armor by one half your level. At 18th level, you gain the Shatterpell feat, even if you do not meet the prerequisites.

Weapon Master (A bit sloppy so it's gotta be changed, but not bad I think)
Weapon Guard (Ex): At 2nd level, a weapon master gains a +1 bonus to CMD against disarm and sunder attempts while wielding his chosen weapon. This bonus also applies on saves against any effect that targets his chosen weapon (for example, grease, heat metal, shatter, warp wood). The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd. This ability replaces bravery. At 6th level, you gain Improved Disarm as a bonus feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisites. At 10th level, you gain Greater Disarm as a bonus feat, and gain a bonus to your CMB with regards to Disarm equal to your Weapon Guard Bonus to your CMD. At 14th level, you gain Critical Mastery as a bonus feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisites, and your bonus to CMD against disarm and sunder increases by +1 for each of the following feats you have with your chosen weapon: Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization. At 18th level, you may apply three critical feats of your choosing upon a successful critical strike, and you gain an additional +2 bonus to confirm critical hits, which stacks with Critical Focus.


I want to see personally the Bounty Hunter and the Stygian Slayer.


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I did not read any other post in this, I just want to comment now on how absolutely friggin awesome I think this class is!
DAMMIT I WANNA SHOUT! I didn't even play the Slayer, so I am legitimately pumped for this class man!


We can't let this thread die guys! Anyone else have any ideas?


brad2411 wrote:
Major_Blackhart wrote:

I really, really want there to be options for my Angel-kin Aasimar fighter with regards to stuff like clockwork and/or cybernetic prosthetic limbs. Metal Wings, yeah he'll take those with his feats, but get me a metal hand that can take a wand built into the wrist and as a backup or last resort type thing, drain that want to empower all his close combat attacks with some sort of elemental power.

Kinda the way clockwork familiars can drain wands and such for their own abilities.
There already is an ability for Aasimars to get metal wings from the ARG. Metal Wings feat

Yeah I know, I said that in the above post.


I really, really want there to be options for my Angel-kin Aasimar fighter with regards to stuff like clockwork and/or cybernetic prosthetic limbs. Metal Wings, yeah he'll take those with his feats, but get me a metal hand that can take a wand built into the wrist and as a backup or last resort type thing, drain that want to empower all his close combat attacks with some sort of elemental power.
Kinda the way clockwork familiars can drain wands and such for their own abilities.


Oh, I feel that frustration, that humiliation. Here I was thinking this class would probably be one of the more interesting classes, one that could really hold his own, kinda like a full 20 level Holy Vindicator of sorts, but what we see now is not what we were supposed to get.


James Jacobs wrote:
There are five archetypes in the book—one for fighters, one for clerics, one for rogues, one for barbarians, and one for gunslingers.

This is truly wonderful news. I hate that I won't get it until the end of August.


Hmmm, some sort of fighter that exchanges armor and weapon training and such for elemental damage? Not a bad idea considering we have a Calistrian Fighter that does the same for bleed damage.


You know, I love both Numeria and Zardoz. I wonder if I can combine the two.


Actually, I've played both the half-orc Redeemer Pally and the cavalier in several flavors, and dammit is the Cavalier an awesome class.
And I just had an idea for a half-orc cavalier Huntmaster with the dwarven racial heritage feat, Order of the Beast, using a slew of cleave feats and a falchion to do some insane damage and continue moving along the way.


Dammit Paizo, this is another thing I gotta get.
Thanks so much.


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Ok, here's my two cents, beginning with my experience in making fighters more than pure damage dealers.
I created for a game a half-orc of some nobility and intelligence, Bailiff Malgor, and found that if I wanted him to be of any specific use out of combat, I had to invest a significant amount of feats and traits on social skills. He started as a Two Handed Fighter to help with damage, and from there I focused on a combination of various feats that were both flavorful and useful to help with his progression. Now, the big thing was that he wasn't as good as a bard, but he could hold a conversation. Even with an intelligence of 14, I still had to invest in feats to get better skills.
Overall, he was a decent enough character, but at the same time left me wanting.

I'd personally love to see Bravery affect all will saves. And as someone said before, bonus feats not restricted to combat feats.

I'd also love to see bonuses other than a simple static bonus from Bravery and bravery-like abilities. For instance, if Bravery affects will saves, at X-level you automatically get Iron Will, then X+5 level you get Improved Iron Will.

Maybe with Weapon Training, you automatically get a specific weapon feat that you choose to apply to each weapon in that group, like at level 1, weapon focus applies to all weapons in the heavy blades group, and you get the +1 atk/dmg, and then you either at level 5 to add another feat to that weapon group, or if you would like, add a combat feat to a different weapon group, etc. Maybe get stuff like Improved Critical for all axes, stuff like that. Basically, it's an automatic Martial Versatility/Master for the fighter at various levels, but you can pick and choose. Maybe your guy comes from an Orc tribe, so he focuses on axes mostly. So for all axes, you decide to take those martial feats, and while you get weapon training in other weapon groups, your big focus is on axes and axe-like weapons, and so at level X, you gain exotic weapon proficiency in axe-like weapons from that group as a bonus, representing your dedication to that particular field.

Changes to Bravery would also include changes to the bonus feats. For instance, if it modified fortitude, then you get fortitude feats, and if reflex, then reflex feats, or if it modified some ability like Sunder, then you get Sunder feats for free. My reasoning behind this is that if a core ability of a class changes, then that character should then receive the bonuses to that ability, based on natural class progression. For instance, if he had a bard-like archetype that replaced bravery with some diplomacy bonus, then he could choose different languages maybe or automatically gain diplomacy based feats, and if it modified intimidate like Viking Fighter, then he could gain demoralizing feats for free. Things that the class would benefit from, that they would take automatically as the class progresses because it makes sense or is a no-brainer. Ever have a hobgoblin Viking Fighter that DIDN'T invest in intimidate feats or hobgoblin only demoralize feats?

I'd also like to see something with regards to Armor Training: the ability to use your armor better than other classes, make the most out of your defenses etc. For instance, at X level, when wearing a certain type of plate, you gain an additional bonus to your armor class, representing some sort of additional knowledge of armor, sort of the Riddle of Steel type of thing, that your training grants you that the average joe doesn't get, greater insight, recognizing the chinks in the armor and actively working towards improving them, etc. Maybe you could even get additional bonuses if you chose to specialize in a specific type of armor (i.e. heavy armor, medium armor, light armor) such as damage reduction on a scaling basis if you wear heavy armor, reflex bonus if you wear light armor, or maybe some sort of Evasion/Improved Evasion, Stalwart, etc.

Someone also mentioned the idea for feats to be prepared on a daily basis. I would LOVE for something like this, but limited to a set group of combat-type feats, the number based on either class level or intelligence. For instance, at level 12, you can prepare 4 feats, that you'll have for the day, and at level fifteen, now five. You'll have these feats for the ENTIRE day and can use them as you please, or perhaps X-number of times per day, similar to spellcasting and ability use, based on level+some stat modifier, maybe intelligence or constitution. You spend an hour at the beginning of each 24 hour period training, and BAM you now have a bunch of feats, and the higher your intelligence the more you have.

Stuff like this could make the Fighter certainly more versatile, and it would definitely reward specialization of a sort. It would also grant the Roy greater benefit over the Thog, because he could use some stat fighters normally don't require to his distinct advantage.

I mean, the options here are somewhat limitless, and I know I've probably gone a bit off of what the OP wanted, but the opportunity to improve the fighter, get it out of the box it seems to be stuck in, that's just too awesome of an idea not to participate in.


Amazing. 838 posts later and we're still talking about the class. Shows you how much folks are invested in this bad boy versus some of the other prestige classes.

However, others have said it, and I gotta agree, if Paizo wanted a Paladin for any god type of build, why didn't they just do that instead?


Hmmm, that's interesting.
Anything, class flavor wise or ability wise that seems to favor the Tymon-esque Gladiator?


4 people marked this as a favorite.

And how glad I am that there was an interest.


Nice, nice.


So, does it have anything any good?


Good points all around.
However, they treat their level as BAB for all combat feats, not just fighter feats, with regards to their bonus feats. That means that, while they can't have as many feat chains as fighter, they can certainly pull off some good ones.
Getting access to Fighter Only feats is nice, but all combat feats is nicer.
Personally, I'm also waiting to see if their levels can count as cleric levels for the purpose of feat prereqs.


That's good.


Hmmm, do you guys think that they gave one warpriest Archetype weapon training and armor training?


Ahh, ok then. I never realized Eldritch Heritage was a once only type of deal. Good to know actually.
So, he can't go both Bonded Item and Familiar, then he should probably choose familiar. He still wants the warhammer, so he'll probably just go for the Adopted by Dwarves racial trait.


I wanna see Orcs made Orky.


http://archivesofnethys.com/BloodlineDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Serpentine

Serpentfriend (Ex): At 3rd level, you can use speak with animals at will with reptilian animals (including various forms of dinosaurs, lizards, and other cold-blooded creatures), and you gain a viper familiar using your sorcerer level –2 as your effective wizard level.


One of the guys in the game group I'm in is working on a Sorcerer with the Impossible Bloodline.
The game will take place at least a good bit in Magnimar, so marrying into the Ardoc family is a strong possibility for him, which makes our bounty hunter company a bit more prestigious as time goes on.
He's basically going to build clockworks and eventually probably a cannon golem or something similar. The GM has no problem with that as the game will certainly take us upwards to level 20 most likely. Now, he broached the subject with us about taking some other interesting feats, specifically the Eldritch Heritage line twice over: some for Arcane Bloodline, some for Serpentine Bloodline. His idea is that for Arcane he'll get a bonded warhammer (goes with the magical smithy sorcerer he's working on) and with the Serpentine Bloodline he'll get a viper familiar which he'll turn into a clockwork familiar with the Improved Familiar feat.
I'm wondering if A: this is legal. B: is it possible? and C: what are the effects of a guy having both a bonded weapon AND a familiar? I never do arcane style spellcasters so I don't really know worth a damn, and I was just wowed at this idea. He's making an insane crafter type, who might take the leadership feat as well.
He's human, will take that focused study alternate racial trait for the skill focus at 1st and 8th level, and from there 1-2 feats in Eldritch heritage for Arcane and 2 feats in Eldritch heritage for Serpentine. The bloodline bonus feats will be crafting oriented mostly, leaving some leftover feats for other stuff. How does this look to everyone? Kosher or what?
I mean, with the right spell list, a good amount of cash, and a portal to the plane of earth, he can build a friggin army for us. Which is awesome.


Torbyne wrote:
I know i may not sound like it but i actually dont think the class is dead on arrival, i am actually very anxious to see what was done in the final revision... especially as this class made me go back and look at the Inquisitor and all that class has going for it. Heres hoping the Warpriest was compared against that one in the final write up.

I certainly wouldn't call the class DOA either. I just hope it has something in there that can make up for it's BAB. Something good.


Yeah, I prefer devil worship, but part of this character's charm is that he takes the job not out of good or evil or anything, because he doesn't care about that, but because he enjoys it. He enjoys the hunt, the battle of wits, and the inevitable fight. He makes his home in Kaer Maga precisely because anyone can pay him to hunt someone down. One story as part of his background, which I took from a Conan the Cimmerian story from Robert E. Howard, sums up his personality fairly well I think at this point. Character has evolved a bit from the slave background.

When he was working with a mercenary company a few years earlier in Cheliax, one of his friends killed another in a duel over a lover's honor. The friend and his lover fled the city together. Malgor was hauled into court because he was friends with the killer and it was alleged he had knowledge of the man's whereabouts. Malgor told the judge how because the man was his friend, he could not betray such trust. The judge became wrathful and talked at great length about Malgor's duty to the state, society, and other things he did not care for. Malgor explained that he was a foreigner and a mercenary in these lands, and as such, he had less duty to the state and society than citizens. He stated that he had only a responsibility to obey the law himself, not aid in its enforcement. The judge bellowed angrily that all had a civic responsibility to do their part, for the state, and bade Malgor to betray his friend. Malgor, seeing the judge had much age upon him, stayed silent instead, out of respect for the elder lawmaker, as he felt that should he open his mouth, only fury would be heard, for he had already explained his position. Instead, the judge squalled that he had shown contempt for the court and that he should be hurled into a dungeon to rot until he betrayed his friend. Upon hearing this, Malgor drew his sword and cleaved the judge's head from his shoulders then butchered his way out of the courthouse and fled the city.

To a degree, that sounds a good bit like how a Gorumite would act I think. He obeys his own code more than society's, and has only so much respect for the law, as long as it doesn't try to harm him.


Thanks for the advice guys.
I'm going to go Gorum, and probably Anger Inquisition.
I was wondering, with regards to feats, how does this sound, in no particular order:
Heavy Armor Proficiency
Weapon Focus (Greatsword or Falchion or Greataxe)
Dazzling Display
Power Attack
Furious Focus
Cornugon Smash
Grudge Fighter
Extended Bane
Keen Scent
Intimidating Prowess

Teamwork Feats:
Brutal Grappler
Horde Charge
Pack Attack
Precise Strike
Coordinated Charge
Outflank

What do you guys think?


This looks awesome.


Have they ever gone into anything for the Primal Inevitables though?


I would hope/prefer not only technology, but also the ability with magic and alchemy to actually alter items and raw materials in some way. For instance, alchemy on adamantine, to make it harder, denser, etc.


I hope you can free him and aid him in a campaign to set up a giant nation within Numeria as an option.
That would be pretty awesome.


I don't need a LOT of mechanics, I just need some. Some of these books do have them, some don't.


Well, part of the reasoning behind his choosing Uruskreil is because his weapon familiarity is going the route of Chain Fighter.

His background is that he was a slave for a time, and a pit fighter, before he was sold to a religious order to act as a bodyguard and enforcer. Eventually, he earned his freedom through his actions.

That's another part of his choosing Uruskreil as his deity over others. Uruskreil is merciless, violent, and "cuts down the weak with his great sword. His terrible armor holds a vision of the Divine."

Normally I'd choose Gorum without hesitation, but Gorum isn't a lawful deity who would really care so much about tracking down lawbreakers unless they were deserters or soldiers who cowardly betrayed information to the enemy, etc.

Then again, maybe I just solved my problem...

Edit: Plus, Gorum might make sense because the character was a pit fighter.


What deity and feats would go well with a half-orc Inquisitor bounty hunter? I'm thinking something that's specifically Lawful oriented, such as Abadar maybe or perhaps something a little less obvious like Uruskreil.

This individual is going to be a somewhat evil individual, the type that burns down a village for hiding local Robin Hood criminal types. He's rather obsessive about that sort of thing.

He runs with a Vivisectionist alchemist, a ranger, and a sorcerer with the impossible bloodline that will create clockwork soldiers to do his grunt work for him.

They'll probably end up working for Hellknights, without him actually becoming one simply because Hellknights have only loyalty to their order and the law really.

So, what deity might work out for this guy, as well as feats? I'm going a combination of melee being the focus, but he'll use his repeater crossbow to close in on them, moving in for the kill.

Specifically, I like Uruskreil because of his weapon, the falchion, and the fact that his area of concern (one of them anyway) is mercilessness. And this guy, Bailiff Malgor, is certainly as merciless as they come.

For feats, what should he get? A combination of melee and ranged, or focus on melee and intimidate?


Yeah, but Rune Giants have a tendency towards law, and I'd like to keep that trend. Not saying that he can't be Chaotic or Neutral evil, but I don't think Rune Giants in general would be willing to submit to someone who's a barely controlled savage like barbarians have a tendency to be. They respect control, tactical acumen, intelligence, all of that stuff way too much. A renegade Rune Giant, definitely could do so, no doubt about it, but a normal rune giant I kinda doubt, especially an overlord.


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Oh man, now I'm wondering after reading the Numeria book if he's the lord of the technic league.
If so, that is an insanely badass interpretation of a

Class Spoiler:
Magus. Totally badass techno interpretation of a friggin Magus. Holy crap if that's how you can make one look I may have to play one g@%#!~mit!


christos gurd wrote:
I wanted an ability to cast their spells as if they were intensified. It still caps quick, but damn it makes 1st level spell slots count for a lot more when blasting.

Something like this would make my unstable Orc Bloodrager more awesome at running into an opposing force and self detonating.


Mikaze wrote:
Major_Blackhart wrote:
Does anyone else think Kevoth-Kul, the Black Sovereign, has really, really kind eyes?
Quite a few hardened Kellid types with strangely appealing eyes going on in this book. The Erastilian elder's in particular seemed to pop out to me.

It's like when I read that stuff, I'm seeing the pictures of one of my favorite felons, Chopper Read. An altogether pleasant bloke who you'd love to have a beer with and commit some torture while robbing drug dealers. But he had an entirely disarming smile and an incredibly warm laugh, he did. Bless the man.


God flurry of blows! I forgot about that! I never play monk so it never even entered into my realm of thought.

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