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So I was just thinking about this as a possibility, but what about using a slayer as the basis for your Aldori Swordlord rather than fighter or even duelist?

Thematically in some respects, a slayer Swordlord studies his targets, while the ranger combat styles, feats, etc. allow for the character to add take advantage of many different options and fighting styles. Plus, those bonuses to demoralize will definitely help a slayer get off more sneak attacks, etc.


So, how worth it is circling mongoose for a non sneak attack class? This type of mobile build is fairly interesting to me, but I'm wondering if this chain would be too feat intensive to make worthwhile.

Anyone have any opinions on the matter?

I hope we can get examples of Gorumite mercs, NPCs, and class options or something similar for them.

This will be cool.

Can't wait for the PDF.

Hmmm. How do you guys think this character would work in a River Kingdom / Razmiran campaign?

I figure a lot of arcanists in Razmiran, plus a few mesmerists, etc. working for him.

Sure, it's in Horror Adventures. Here's a link: ayer-archetypes/witch-killer-slayer-archetype

lemeres wrote:

Yeah, but warpriest can grab arsenal chaplain.

You don't lose too much (sure, choice of blessings, but we are comparing it to a specific domain choice anyway, so you aren't free in that sense either for this comparison to work). Sacred armor is lost, but it was a rather C grade ability when you consider the swift action problem above. You lose sacred weapon damage dice... but if you grab a greatsword like anyone else worried about damage dice, then you are fine.

So the general end result is more attack/damage overall. The rage domain doesn't carry the +6 or +8 versions of rage, while the arsenal chaplain gets the full +4 of weapon training. And it can also grab gloves of dueling for an extra +2.

So overall, you can't...

Arsenal Chaplain is my favorite archetype for Warpriest. Definitely amazing. Any devotee to any god is ultimately made a badass with this one, and you're right about the attack damage etc. I just really like the flavor of a Gorumite so out of his mind with bloodlust he just goes berserk. It's why I've always chosen those rage based domains/inquisitions. They're badass like that.

Granted you could go with VMC of a barbarian or something, or a cleric and get the Rage subdomain. Still, I prefer a class to get that ability some other way than VMC.

So, I was wondering if anyone has used the Witch Killer Slayer and what they think of it.

I prefer to play martials, and I really enjoy classes and archetypes with a lot of flavor to them over other sorts of abilities, and in truth I've lately been partial to melee based Slayers.

So when I saw this archetype, I was thinking it sounds interesting on paper, but how does it play normally?

A lot of the rage based slayer abilities this class gains are pretty awesome, since there are a TON of arcane casters in most games, allowing you to pretty much go up against just about any Runelord or whatever without issue. Though I think the archetype would suffer tremendously against any campaign or game where the enemy is a divine caster instead.

One thing does bother me about this character: Studied Witch ability, which modifies Studied Target. Flavor-wise, it's interesting, but I don't like that you can't increase the number of studied targets simultaneously. That does bug me a bit.

What does everyone else think of the archetype? Are the abilities useful enough to warrant an investment into the class?

The one thing that does bug me with Wapriest vs. Inquisitor of Gorum (he's my go to god) is that the Warpriest lacks the ability to get rage, whereas the Cleric and Inquisitor can both easily get it.

You know, I really enjoyed the Rise of the Runelords anniversary edition, with all the after the adventure stuff that was added in, etc.

I'd love to see what is readily available here in this book. I'm definitely gonna purchase it when it comes out on pdf.

Barbarians can shut down arcanists fairly well. I don't see why they shouldn't be able to do the same with magical beasts and the like with a few rage powers in this book.

Bought it. Really enjoy a LOT of what this book has to offer. It allows for a ton of flavor and the game play options are very viable from what I've seen.

I'm experimenting right now with a half orc divine paragon of Gorum concept. With a VMC Fighter this guy can really be a nasty combatant.

Also looking at viking fighter. With deific observance, hurtful, haste, and Gorum's sentinel options, he can get 7 (!!!!) attacks on the charge. With an impacting greatsword while enlarged and Gorum's swordsmanship, that's utterly insane damage!

Who says fighters can't have fun?

Divine paragon:
Benefits: automatically gain deific obedience and get powers at 5th, 11th, and 14th of whichever group (evangelist, exalted, sentinel).
Choose 2 domains, 1 progresses normally. The other exchanges your domain powers for the above obedience benefits but you still get bonus spells.

And you get a sacred brand that makes you more obvious and your aura stronger.

This modifies domain and your aura.

Is it just me or is this archetype capable of some real insanity, especially if you decide to couple it with a vmc.

I was looking at this class, and thinking if I wanted a pure damage dealer, I could go half-orc divine paragon of Gorum vmc Fighter.

Taking the Rage subdomain as my main and the dueling subdomain as my secondary domain that gets replaced, I can get some great spells, abilities, and good consistent damage.

Choosing the Sentinel powers of gorum, while raging I get an additional +2 to attk and dmg by level 14.

Couple in the morale bonus from Grudge Fighter when damaged, using a courageous weapon and reckless abandon, plus the weapon training and duelist gloves, you could potentially get a +10 to attack and damage rolls from that alone.

Edit: That +10 does not include reckless abandon either.

Overall I sense a truly offensive monster when built a certain way, plus full spell casting from both domaina. The dueling subdomain grants dance of a thousand cuts, another great boost to the cleric.

What does everyone else think?

This is quite interesting to me.

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Well, I would rather paizo give the opportunity to play as hobgobs in an AP due to Molthune recruiting them like crazy (along with lycanthropes, centaurs, and any other monstrous race that can take orders).

In home game fluff, we've even set up hobgoblin orphanages in Braganza, in part so that city's population grows in size, and in part because hobgoblins aren't big into parenting.

A green dragon who runs the mage college also experiments with the hobgoblin bloodline in an effort to create varied species or even more suitable soldiers. As a result, my personal character is a vanguard slayer hobgoblin who is of alchemical altered blood, a mix of bugbear and hobgoblin. Makes him stronger (+2 to strength instead of dex) but he was so unruly as a child he was placed in the infamous Redwall Reformatory for Troubled Youths.

Because of this stuff our group has done, I'm taking such an interest in this particular AP.

I look forward to this adventure. The location (Nirmathas & Molthune) appeals to me greatly, plus the fact that this adventure features Hobgoblins, who were said to be a major threat to the inner sea region, all makes it interesting.

Hobgoblins have been said to be a major threat to the region, but so far they've never really posed an issue.

Is there anything on the Orc deities? Varg, or any of the others?

So, let me ask. Is there anything in particular that is specific towards Gorum or other gods of battle and destruction? Rovagug, Szuriel, any of the others?

dotting for later

I am very excited about this to say the least. I'm wondering if there will be any faith based fighter or barbarian archetypes that my devout Gorumites can make use of.

I just saw this and I'm pumped for it. I really enjoyed the Monster Codex a lot and hope paizo puts that level of detail and flavor into this.

I like feinting, but at the same time I'm less enthused about it vs something akin to an intimidation based build via Vanguard Slayer (my favorite archtype) or even using ranger combat styles to get Shattered Defenses, etc.

Why not go straight destined? Why crossblood with fey? Does it offer anything you could use?

I was wondering if this guide was going to get updated at all with the latest options for slayers and the like.
Lots of stuff came out from ultimate intrigue and the related books, and slayers can definitely make use of armor and weapon master's handbooks.

Yeah but summoner spells are limited in both per day casting and how many you can choose from. As a melee summoner you may want to focus more on self buffing rather than other spells that are situational based upon campaign.

For a melee summoner, would taking a few levels of Bloodrager to get things like blooded arcane strike and mad magic be considered a viable option?

I was just thinking about this idea, and while I liked the Blood God Disciple it gives up good stuff for not that good stuff. So I'm thinking maybe a few levels of Bloodrager to regular summoner can make up the difference.

What do you guys think about it? Also, would bloodline even matter in this case?

You could definitely work out some different bloodrager archetypes without many issues because you're not going to stay in bloodrager that long. I'd say 4 levels max.

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The Yojimbo class would be awesome if it was more like Toshiro Mifune from the original movie.

Actually that would be pretty cool.
Could detail a number of groups and organizations that have been mentioned previously in the past once or twice and go into further detail on them.

Whatever class Zatoichi is, you should pick that.

Charisma based martials, of them my favs are Daring Champion Cav (even regular Cav is pretty damn good as a Charisma martial) & Bloodrager.

However, Fighter can also be a good choice provided you pick the right archetype and feat combination.

Hmm, I wonder how well some things like from the Weapon's Master's Handbook work with this class.

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So, any chance this guide will be updated for the latest archetypes and builds out there?

Hey, I'm working on a character that is built specifically for a River Kingdoms / Tymon / Razmir campaign.
He's a half-orc, Drill Sergeant and Mutation Warrior being the archetypes used.

Weapon Masters Handbook is in full use for this campaign, as are a number of others, some stuff from the occult as well.

I'm looking for something flavorful and still effective in a campaign, and I'm wondering specifically about that fighting style in the weapon master's handbook, Orc Fury Style.

Being that we're going up against Razmiran and the armies of Razmir, I can imagine all sorts of Arcane casters masquerading as holy men will be available to fight. As well as other stuff.

Do people find Orc Fury style useful for both intimidating as well as getting a bonus against mages or anything shaken with an SLA? Would Orc Fury style still considered to be in effect if you use Dazzling Display as well? If so, that might make a group of spellcasters that less powerful against my big guy (actually, he's not that big, strong but more of a runt of the litter in size, hence the reliance on mutagens).

It's an awesome flavorful style, but it's an investment, even for a fighter.

If anyone has seen the books, what sort of background info does it deep dive into with the Urdefhans?

Just saw this. Dotting for later but I'm interested.

So will we get further in depth details about the kill or be killed social structures of Urdefhan? Any info on their leadership and cities as well? Military structure? Distinct breed of magic?

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Depends on if you've read the Monster Codex. While no images of the beast were showed, there were stats for a fully ancient and super charged Troglodyte that was essentially a precursor before their civilization fell.

I definitely want to hear about the wars that Urdefhan wage against other races, maybe even have more revealed about the upper echelons of their society, stuff like that.

Part of me loves the idea of an Urdefhan mercenary who is a Chaotic Evil renegade and worships something other than Szuriel or one of the other horse men, instead signed on with some other racial group and plies death and violence along the silent sea, all for slaves, gold, and power.

Maybe he's got Hezrou or Balor blood in his veins, maybe he hears the whispers of the Rough Beast. Or he simply finds the roar of battle and the eternal clash of steel that Gorum promises in the hereafter too grand for him to pass up. Perhaps he's discovered a way to sever the ties Abaddon has over his soul.

The horse men, and daemons in general, just always come across as too depressing for me. Just kind of meh maybe tho that's because I take their nihilism to the forefront.

Set wrote:

Duergar have felt kind of like the boring stepcousins of the underdark/darklands in most games, far behind the sexy, sexy Drow, so it could be neat to see something to flavor them up a bit. They occasionally had a focus on psionics, so one way to take them into a newer direction would be to Occult them up with psychics and mesmerists, and leave the Drow more focused on divine and arcane magics...

Troglodytes and Vegepygmies also could use some fleshing out, for that matter.

I agree with all your points. I'd also like to see the Deurgar fleshed out in other ways. There's something about their society that seems TOO organized. I'd like more of it fleshed out about renegade or fallen deurgar too.

Urdefhan AND Munavris (who may or may not be descendants of ancient Azlanti, who knows) in the same book? First day purchase on PDF for me.

Should you go improved familiar you can take a small earth elemental.

I was gonna say Oracle VMC as well.

I'm not the biggest fan of Whirlwind attack simply because it's more situational than not. Circling Mongoose is a good way to make the most of sneak attack if you please.

Intelligence should be a high Stat for a vanguard slayer. Dexterity is less important because eventually you'll be going first no matter what. As an obvious front liner, you should consider constitution as a fairly high score as well.

Will your vanguard slayer be a dedicated support type in terms of tactics? If so, you can focus on a combination of dirty tricks and tactician feats. If you want, you can also vmc Cavalier for more tactician goodness.

If you're a front liner first and foremost, you'll want to maximize sneak attack opportunities plus other forms of damage. I suggest vmc into barbarian, alchemist, or rogue as viable possibilities.

Personally I prefer greatsword and vmc into barbarian or fighter. As a half orc, you have a great opportunity for a number of feats and abilities not normally available, and you still have the option of taking heritage feats plus the human favored bonus for gaining even more feat possibilities.

Magnetic Monowire Bouncing Bolas from Numeria. Nice.

I'd agree. My suggestion with regards to a Brigh or Gorum is do be able to use channel to bring about some sort of surge in robots and constructs. Maybe gain the leadership feat immediately but only with robots, and using that cohort as both a familiar in sharing/delivering spells and as a servant of some sort, adding additional bonuses.

Depending on what kind of divine class you are, the prc could grant bonuses, as well as what God's you worship. Use some sort of robotic surge for the purposes of gaining control over robots and constructs controlled by others. Gain additional uses if you have the channel energy class feature. If you have judgements, you gain the ability to do certain things with robots and constructs, etc.

I'd also suggest putting some focus on tthe impossible bloodline if you can, to look at that as some sort of inspiration.

Very nice. What sort of upgrades will he build himself in later encounters? What sort of body do you have in mind? His spider bot type? Something bigger?

Just got interesting for a strength based swashbuckler or maybe a strength based Daring Champion.

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