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I like the entry about Urdefhan sailors. Sounds interesting to say the least.


I thought it was a good read. Entertaining. I was hoping for some more regarding the dead city that I won't name due to spoilers but overall it was pretty good.


Oh yeah. Xin would be the baddest man in the room under a majority of circumstances were he mythic, save for a few others. My big question is what class would he be, if any at all.
How would his stats align? I'm even wondering if he would have any sort of special abilities that are available to him only as a mythic unique... thing.


I read the book. Never read any of the other stories really, but I didn't feel like I was missing anything to be honest.


So what type of classes are chose. For Urdefhan?


Pfff. Too stereotypical.


Hmm, what would a mythic clockwork reliquary with the Sihedron look like in terms of stats and spellcasting ability?


Hmm. You know what? I still want more Thassilon stuff. I love it. We've fought 2 Runelords and the remains a First King Xin. While some Runelords are suitably mythic and we've been told no more mythic APs for a while, some aren't. And honestly, I'd love to know more about them all, their plans, allies, secrets, all of it. Karzoug bartered with the Denizens of Leng. Alaznist made deals with Yamasoth and encouraged demonic worship in general.

What about the others? Who were their alliea? What about the Peacock Spirit? Or any other Runelords?


So, I just sat down and read thru it. Took about 2 days worth of reading. Not bad, a decent read overall.


So, I've been pouring over the archetypes now and how they mesh with the Variant multiclass rules and I've gotta say the armor master and barbarian look good together. Maybe someone else can verify, but with these two you can potentially get some powerful results if built correctly.

Now, my previous armor master build focused on shield and axe combat. But I'm thinking what if he doesn't necessarily need a traditional shield? What if all he needs is a buckler so his bravery replacing ability isn't wasted?

I'd consider if possible a 2 handed weapon, in part to save on feats but also so he can take extra rage powers, again if that option is available. I think a character like this might be a good damage dealer and at the same time utterly unstoppable. The possibilities are pretty damn good, and if all things stack, you get the ability to have up to 24 damage reduction.


It's now in my cart. Will review it tonight.


I definitely think Zutha would be amenable to hiring out the Empty Hand tribe, offering Grask Uldeth immortality in the process through becoming a graveknight possibly. That's something Grask would jump at simply to ensure all his effort and hard work making the empty hand what it is doesn't go to waste. I'd definitely see the Orc warlord becoming a major partner for Zutha and Ungarato, as someone to keep the Orcs in line and act as a liason for the rest of Belkzen.

He could even use the subjugation of the Empty Hand as proof to the rest of the inner sea region that he is a stabilizing force in a region of danger and instability. At the same time, it's likely Lastwall wouldn't see a difference between him and Tar-Baphon so they might just try to wage war just because.

They'd lose of course, and Zutha would absorb their lands into his own as punishment I'd imagine.


Definitely not. Tar-Baphon is far too powerful and too arrogant for that.

I think a Zutha arisen would definitely set out to conquer Belkzen first and foremost. Hell, other kingdoms might welcome him as a stabilizing g force in the region, both him and his champion Ungarato. He might even dispatch Ungarato to conquer the kellid lands and expand their influence throughtout. Zutha was a rather mercantile Runelord afterall. I see him expanding his kingdom at first until he feels it large enough and he is limited by logistics and what lays on his borders. I don't see him going into Last wall or Ustalav right away.


Hmmm. Karzoug was labeled as Azlanti but he didn't have any of those Stat bonuses that Sorshen had. I suspect that those bonuses to all stats were specific to the men and women from Azlant itself, not necessarily Azlant heritage.


Do you have any references for Sorshen creating the Rune Giants?

Xin was an idealist, but not inherently evil like his Runelords were. He was always looking towards the big picture it seemed. And if some giants were enslaved or some people misplaced or crushed under the treads of progress, so be it!


That's kind of it, isn't it? Zutha seems to obviously been the Lord but one must wonder if Ungarato was simply grateful for the Necromancer offing Goparlis or maybe there was greater promises of power and a place in Gastash for his own people. But whatever it was, Ungarato was made loyal to the Runelord.

Maybe their views on life and the world itself were just very similar.

Edit: part of me wonders if either of them had contact at any point with Erum-Hel, though it's unlikely that the Lord of Morghs was as powerful as he is now.


Ok, it's a known fact that it was the Runelords not Xin that created the Rune Giants, as well as inverted giants.

Were these discoveries something that Xin approved of, abhorred, or was incredibly jealous of?

The swords of sin, all of that stuff, seemed to enrage Xin in part because he had not done it first but also because it seemed that they were perversions of Rune Magic, perhaps misuses of it in ways he did not approve.

Anyone have any guesses on the subject, or if God would like to enter and explain that would be cool too.


Hmm, part of me wonders, as Ungarato was insanely powerful due to being mythic, whether or not Zutha himself had some mythic power as well. Supposedly not, because he's beneath Karzoug in power according to word of god, but part of me seems to believe that Runelords abhor the idea of having servants that are more powerful to them in some fashion.
If that's not the case here, then Zutha himself must be incredibly pragmatic in that regard.


Dotting for later.


This is cruel, to get me salivating for some dirty tricks in July and then push it back to August.


Alright. Off to download that for kindle.

Specifically, which questions did that actually dance around, the servants of the Lich Lord Tar-Baphon or Ungarato?


I wonder if the horse graveknight summons a rider to mount it.


Ok, so Shattered Star gave us the beginnings for an awesome post campaign with Thullos and Zutha rising.

For those who don't know who Thullos is, he's a lich Taiga Giant Necromancer who seeks to bring Zutha back.

Now that we've gotten the leveling for Ungarato, who appears to be supremely powerful, and assuming Thullos is successful in restoring Zutha, how would the scenario play out with regards to the servants of Tar-Baphon? Would the likes of Erum-Hel and his Vampire antipaladin overlord, the kellid, flock to Zutha's banner or would a war between the factions erupt?

Ungarato, being so awesomely powerful would have to make an appearance of course. His essence is locked within the sword that bears his name, so whomever picks it up will have to enter into a battle of wills with the Graveknight and when that battle is inevitably lost you'd see the Dragon-Tamer reborn anew and at full power, similarly to how Ovinrbane works in Kingmaker.

Would the undead in these regions be utterly dominated by Zutha? Would Ungarato willingly return to serve his former master or would he once again abscond with the fabled sword of sin and become a mighty warlord of the Kellid peoples in another realm or even or orcs?

If I recall, the Graveknight was not compelled to follow Zutha, but rather the Runelord bargained with him. Ungarato could simply decide he'd fulfilled his duties and rebuild his old barbarian kingdom.


What is said about Xin-Undoros and Holgona in terms of background and current mental state? Is Holgona going around slaying duergar and darklands orcs under Urgir? Is Xin-Undoros meditating, keeping his sanity through prayer to Lissala and keeping a vigil for his master Xin?


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I'm curious how Zursvaator will be shown in worship, as well as his relationship to other giant gods, AND humans as well. I'm curious if he has a following among humans or other races the same way Minderhal does.

Also curious if he emphasizes law over evil or vice versa. A part of me says the way fire giant society seems to work, a combination of absolute loyalty combined with slavery and violence makes me guess that it's more evil than lawful, but who knows.


Wow. That's some awesome stuff.
Are their levels and classes shown the same way that Ungarato's are?
Also, is Ungarato the most powerful of the group or is someone even stronger than the Dragon-Tamer?


What other Graveknights are mentioned aside from Ungarato?


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Well, the way I would play him is similar to the sword Ovinrbane in kingmaker. Fail a test and Ungarato is reborn, fully restored.


So, off topic but dealing with the Graveknight section of the book. Specifically Ungarato and other barbarians. Nowadays the Kellid people tend to worship Gorum or Rovagug, though the Rough Beast is in lesser numbers than Gorum. Gorum however did not turn his vision to Golarion until the Orcs arose from the earth and made glorious war upon man. So, what God would Ungarato and others have worshipped during the time of the Runelords if not Gorum?


Ungarato being mythic rank 4 essentially makes me wonder if he's really dead and his essence is trapped within the sword of sin. Now I'm thinking that maybe it's not his essence within the blade at all. That would be interesting, he's still around and kicking 10 millennia later, guarding his third of the gluttonous tome and wielding the sleeping blade.


So what do you suggest then by way of archetype and armaments? Feat suggestions?


Very awesome. Thanks a bunch! Within the city of Xin, what sort of remnants of Thassilon should the adventurers hired by a mysterious benefactor find? I'd wager undead and clockwork, but what else would you think is something that would remain in the ancient ruins of that crystal city, protected by a crap ton of magic?


So, my group is doing the variant multiclass rules, and it's a river kingdom setting. Every book is in play for the most part. It's mostly low magic that we're going for, so the GM will limit magical weapons properly etc.

I need help building a former gladiator from Tymon. He's a half-orc, and I'm going for Slayer vmc barbarian. By way of feat trees, I'm leaning towards circling mongoose and intimidate. Unchained barbarian powers with the regular barbarian rage.

Beyond that, I'm unsure. Should I invest in more rage powers? Dirty tricks? Performance feats? Maneuvers like bull rush? I'm unsure even about weapons honestly. He's definitely strength focused, but should he use a falchion/ggreatsword or something exotic like a gladiator style weapon, a falcata sticks out in my mind.

I don't even know what sort of archetype to use for Slayer.


That's true. Hmm, some SLA's to summon clockwork soldiers en masse from that little demi plane he created to hold his army, or even clockwork outsiders. Could be cool.

I ask because my group is working on a campaign involving a Thassilonian Revenent green wyrm who served the Empire in that time. Kind of a continuing the campaign adventure deal in the aftermath of Xin rising from the seas.

Involves searching through the ruins of Xin, and high tailing it all over Varisia.


I saw that. It's kinda what prompted my interest. But if it had been a perfect transformation as originally intended, would he have needed the Sihedron to cast as a 20th level master of Rune magic?

Would he have had other abilities as well that weren't mentioned in Shattered Star?

Edit: Or in that awesome thread about cut content?


As it is in Shattered Star, the reliquary is considered imperfect right now because it was intended to house the body and soul of Xin, not his insane ghost. As such, it's vulnerable to positive energy and the ghosts own madness induced failings. Beyond glitches and positive energy what are the other failings of the imperfect clockwork reliquary vs if it was functioning perfectly? Would Xin have needed the Sihedron to cast spells? Would it be even more powerful in other ways?

Any suggestions or ideas for this one?


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Runelord Goparlis was indeed mentioned before this during his wars with Ungarato the dragon master to get the sword of gluttony back. Ungarato, a suitably vicious barbarian warlord, had long despised the Runelord for raiding his people for slaves. Their war continued for years until Goparlis was distracted long enough not to realize Zutha had gained enough power to overthrow him. Zutha made an offer to the warlord, who had by then died and come back as a graveknight. The rest is history.


I'd just connect it to a stronger connection to the spirit/magical/other side where their powers are drawn from while in were form.


I don't know. Then there's no real consequences to the choice.

Here's my take on it. They can return the relics and not only get the recognition of the town and maybe some additional support in the form of land and servants (think lesser leadership feat) or it can go so far as to them being recognized by a local baron, who backs them for further nobility up the chain of command.

If they take the stuff to keep, they can gain enmity from the town, and pay either a major fine, or skip out on the fine and become outlaws. Taldors borders are huge after all.

This could be the start of some rivals gunning for them, a descendant of the adventurer with some class levels, a rival, etc. Make the choice a hard one at that, therefor the bad choice is easier but the consequences of such are more drastic.

Or they could convince the town they will put these tools to their intended use and slay dragons and other monsters that threaten TTaldorand the land, which could allow for the local nobles to beseech the government in getting your group to avoid paying the tax.


Ugh. The pdf release can't come soon enough. I hate the wait.

What else do we get on Urdefhan? In terms of fluff I mean.


I can't wait for this book. New material, info, rules. All of it sounds great.


I'm more interested in the graveknight section honestly.


So about the Urdefhan... any new rules and such we can use for them?


Has anyone read this book yet?

What's in it by way of new info for the races?


I kind of did. The art for storm giants basically looks like they wield 2 handed falcatas anyway.


I would one day like to see an AP that doesn't feature the Runelords themselves, but rather a Rune Giant overlord building a massive force, dominating giants, etc.


Awesome. Great information overall. Thanks James!!!

How heavily populated are their cities? I mean I'm sure they have at least one that has 30k or more maybe as their capital in Doga-Delloth. As industrious as the Urdefhan are, advanced magically and such, I'd think you'd see a Single metropolis sized capital and maybe a half dozen other cities, surrounded by fortresses and citadel dotting the countryside.

Also, births are extremely difficult in their society, downright dangerous even, so for those that can afford it, is magic used often to bring loved ones back from the dead or is it seen as weakening the race, that only the strong should survive and all else is fodder and fuel for the war machine?

God, I just love the concept behind this society. Hell, I bet their money is soul based as well, like in Abaddon.


I cannot wait for this book. Day 1 pdf purchase.


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Urdefhan
Doga-Delloth
Orv
Neolithids
Urdefhan!!! James Jacobs thank you for a suitably evil race of bad guys but I need Moar! !!!


It's officially early June I think. Is there a date yet?

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