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Pathfinder Society Member. 1,411 posts. 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 4 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Chuck Norris is a terrible person, and I am saddened to see him referenced here :(


Well, the abilities you gain aren't coming from those spells at all. They just provide you the list. The abilities are coming from your mutagen. The only thing I can think of that would prevent them from stacking would be the order of application.

I think an argument can be made that after drinking the mutagen, the abilities are part of the physical form. Spells that change your physical form *and thus cause you to lose abilities based on that form* could cause you to lose access to them.

But enlarge wouldn't fall under that anyhow.


I'm late to the party, but I'll toss my hat in as well. I'm a fairly experienced pathfinder player. On wednesdays, I dm a pathfinder game for some friends of mine, and I'm looking to get some play time in myself.

I'd be interested in a skype/maptools/roll20/ect... game. I'm available any time monday, tuesday, thursday, friday, or sunday. I'd prefer something on monday, tuesday, or thursday though.

Any of those modules would be great to play in. I don't believe I've been through any of them myself, so no spoilers for me! :D


Note that being a willing target doesn't mean that the wizard cannot roll a will save to resist the spell. Being a willing target allows you to target the wizard. He may still choose to resist the spell, and roll a will save against it.


Theoretically. However, keep in mind that any custom magic item (even traps) has to be ok'd by the dm. And that's the kind of stuff (auto infinite healing) that just begs to be slapped down with prejudice.


I assume you mean the lightning bolt spell?

On page 424 of the core rulebook, table 3-15: cost modifiers for magic device traps

Automatic reset trap:
Each spell used 500gp*caster level*spell level
So 500*5*3 = 7500g. That looks good so far, assuming you're casting the spells for it yourself.

However, you need to determine the kind of trigger you're going to use. That may end up modifying the final price. For example, a visual trigger requires the casting of one of three spells, and that will increase the cost.

The perception dc looks right, depending on the trigger type again, as does the disable device dc.

Reset would be automatic reset. You can have it reset once a round, or increase the delay if you wish.

The save dc for the trap is set to (10+spell level)*1.5 so for this trap the dc is 19 for half.

If you're using alarm for the trigger, as seems implied, then everything is perfect.
The creation dc seems fine as well.

It's a magical device trap, so you're using wondrous items (spellcraft), and not craft traps.

creation time looks good, again depending on your trigger method.


1. Can supernatural abilities harm incorporeal creatures? Yes.
2. Do all supernatural abilities automatically harm incorporeal creatures? No. (There are plenty of Su effects that provide buffs, and not attacks.)


I see a witch with the misfortune hex, who uses it on herself and her allies. Cackle too, to keep the bad times rolling. Maybe some alchemy ranks and alchemical weapons.


Gargantuan animated object? :D

Consider how the ship will deal with flying monsters, and offensively placed dispel magics/antimagic auras.

Also, have emergency repair kits of some kind or other on hand, to repair damage.


The father, unable to sire a child, and hearing that his once-love had borne a child after she left him, assumes that the child is his.

He has the woman brought to him, as he is perhaps dying or just sorrowful and lonely, and begs her to tell him the truth of the child.

He learns that the child was male, declares it to be his, and bestows the right of his title so that his family name, at least, may carry on after his end.


I don't know. While you get synergy from Cleric2/empyreal sorc1/MT10, you're still advancing a reduced progression caster class.

If you split stats, you can go Wizard2/cleric1/MT10. I think that nets you something like 9th lvl spells and 7th lvl spells respectively.

And yet...

There IS something to be said for lore oracle/sorc. Noble scion moves your cha to init, sidestep slaps it onto your reflex and ac, and using a tiefling variant you can grab the fiendish sorcery/imp. fiendish sorc stuff.

It seems to me that there are a lot of interesting and potentially powerful ways to slap this together. What is really drawing my attention at the moment, however, are the remaining 7 levels. Yes, you could stick them back into one of the basic classes. But surely there's a better use for them in one of the myriad prestige classes. Sorc2/oracle1/MT10/bloodmage7 perhaps?

I do not know.


The way it's worded, it doesn't matter which offhand the weapon or shield is in. As long as it's in one of the offhands, the dervish dance won't work.


I too think your player has it right.

That being said, talk to him and let him know what your concerns are. Ask that he restrain himself from getting too carried away so that everyone there can have fun, not just him.


Oh, that's an interesting point. The older the elemental is, the more intelligent it is. They can be as smart as -or smarter than- humans.

What's going on behind the scenes with these intelligent elementals?

With the core thing, keep in mind that you're looking at a lot of golems, and a lot of industry from their labors. Consider for a moment the variety of cars that exists in our world. There's no reason a similar degree of variety couldn't exist in your world.

It's certainly within the realm of imagination that some golems are tasked as repairmen, or construction equipment, and just spend all day building replacement bodies for various common golems.

I'd take some time and look at the different golems you want to use in your world. Consider what the "basic model" would be. Everything above that is an upgraded model, and everything below it is an amateur build.

I'd probably stick with maybe two or three general use models, which cuts down on the need for a bunch of different power cores floating around. Specialized models are out there, but power cores and replacement bodies are much more difficult to find.

Alternatively, you could go with a top-down model. Each power core is rated for a specific body type. E.g., Mithril. However, the mithril power core can also power any golem of lesser cr. You can't use it to power a higher cr one though.


Well, I'd translate a percentage of the cost of the golem into the core. You'll need to decide how much cheaper you want to make it to replace/rebuild your golems.

So, assuming the core itself is intact, maybe repairing the golem only costs 50% or 25% of the cost to build a new one.

Keep in mind though that the cores will become targets for some folks. What happens if the core is broken open? Will it release an elemental?

And how do folks feel about enslaving sentient creatures to power their devices? Do they even know? Or are elementals not intelligent or possibly even alive?


So then, divine favor being a spell makes all of your attacks count as magical? Bulls strength too? And enlarge? That's a magical buff as well.

Smite evil doesn't make your attack a supernatural attack. It is an ability that grants you a number of specifically listed bonuses. It'd be nice if smite evil allowed you to hit incorporeal creatures. But, sadly, that's not one of the listed bonuses.


Unless you're ignoring the skill requirements for MT, you'll need at least three non-MT levels first.


As per the earlier quote, "many traits" does not mean all traits. While the two traits do provide a bonus for the character, it is not a typed bonus, which means that it stacks. Had the traits listed that the effect should be considered a "trait bonus", then you'd have an argument.


The faq says "one or more targets", which would include firing all your scorching rays at different targets. So, pick just one for your sneak attack damage.


My understanding is that the issue with allowing players to craft intelligent items is one of action economy.

An intelligent item can take its own actions, activate its own abilities and such. Basically, you can design a buffing machine that stacks all sorts of round/level defenses on you.

From page 532 of the CRB, "these items think and feel the same way characters do and should be treated as NPCs."

Personally, I limit crafting to existing items in the book. That effective cuts out intelligent item costs. But if you do allow your players to craft intelligent items, remember that the crafting cost table in 550 is an "estimation" table. Don't forget that you should look at the abilities of the item and compare it to other, existing items to determine its actual cost.


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One of my players made a similar character. After a few levels, he regretted the dip and delayed casting so much that he retired the character.

Oracles already have slower spell progression than clerics. Slowing it down even more just HURTS.


Mystic theurge. Tiefling cleric3/wizard1

Arcane trickster. Tiefling wizard 1/rogue3/


Well, for one, the feat I mentioned (Spellsong) requires bardic performance. For two, as far as the rules go still/silent together don't conceal spellcasting. So I provided an example feat that could provide the functionality the OP wanted.


Since you're looking for house rules stuff --

There is a bardic feat to conceal spellcasting called Spellsong. It allows you to conceal your spellcasting by masking it in a performance. Observers must make a perception or sense motive check, opposed by your perform check, to realize that you are also casting a spell. And it uses 1 round of your bardic performance.

The feat also allows you to use bardic performance to maintain a bard spell with a duration of concentration.

This feat creates two checks for the spell. The first is a perception or sense motive opposed by the caster's perform check. The second is the standard spellcraft roll to identify the spell.

Given that, I might suggest creating a feat for spellcasters who wish to conceal their spellcasting.
Something like this?

Cloaked Casting:

Prerequisites: Still Spell, Silent Spell

A spellcaster with this feat may attempt to conceal the casting of a spell. Select a spell with a casting time no greater than one standard action. You may make a stealth check to conceal the casting of this spell from others. You receive a +2 bonus to the check if the spell is modified by still spell or silent spell, or a +4 bonus if modified by both.
Normal: Spellcasters cannot disguise spellcasting.

If you don't want to make it a feat, then by all means just make it opposed skill checks. However, keep in mind how this may potentially disrupt your campaign, as the party spellcasters hit everyone they encounter with charm person :D


It's silly? Silly?

Remind me to infer that your group's gaming style is silly.

Working a character into the story isn't a problem. Working a replacement character into the party every other week is. As is dealing with an extra 140k gold every other session.

Since I knew this was going to be an issue with certain of my players, this was the solution we discussed and agreed on. None of my players have a problem with it or, if they do, have voiced it to me.

It's been working as intended for this campaign for about seven months now.

From a story standpoint, it's like asking Ashton to stand with Belhamir. From a COMBAT standpoint, any combat can be balanced around your players and their abilities.

This is the solution that my group chose, being themselves aware of their own gaming tendencies. It's an option that Xallin can choose to explore or not.

Certainly, it's Xallin's choice.


If you can't come up with something for a level disparate character to do to participate, that's a gm failure. Goodness knows, all lower level enemies cease to exist from the world once they're a few cr's below the APL.



Listen, all you STR rogues out there are building your rogues JUST FINE!

There's nothing wrong with a str based rogue. It has plenty of benefits.

Heck, you can even pick up medium and heavy armor proficiency if you really want.

As long as you're having fun with your character, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.


For my current game, if your character dies and is not rezzed then your new character starts at level two with appropriate WBL.

The party is level 13 now. While it doesn't take long for a level two to catch up if he keeps his head out of trouble, it does serve to keep wealth in check while creating an additional penalty for serial characters. Introducing a new pc every other session starts to screw up story flow.


Well, from the invisibility spell, "If a check is required, a stationary invisible creature has a +40 bonus to its stealth checks. This bonus is reduced to +20 if the creature is moving."

I'm not sure what the issue is, mechanically. It's pretty clear that it provides a bonus to stealth. If you're looking for a rationalization, that's different.

The best one I can come up with is, when you don't have to worry about being seen, you can put a lot more attention into moving quietly.

If you're talking about the extra +20 from perception to the dc, mechanically they would stack.

As far as the whole perception thing, I'm going to note that it is possible for something to be effectively invisible without use of the invisibility spell. In that case, the invisible creature who didn't cast invisibility would net only a +20 bonus instead of the whole number.

For example, the pixie is invisible, but not as per the spell. So is the shadow demon, and the spores of the basidirond. Short list, true, but still present.


As an aside, you should check with your dm about leadership and what you can an cannot take as a cohort. Many dm's interpret it differently, some outright ban it, and some will only give you cohorts that they've put together for you.

For a cloaker, it's a cr 5 creature, however it has a few abilities that are unsuitably powerful for an average party. Specifically, the moan ability is fairly strong. Given that, I would probably set a cloaker without class levels at cr 8. Maybe nine, given the composition of the party, but probably 8.


Jah, dm's are scarce as is, and asking for a solo campaign isn't going to make finding one any easier.


Considering this is pretty much the only place we have to communicate inbetween games, a couple thoughts here. If you give me a day to work, I can throw together several scrolls. I'm thinking a few more magic missile, and maybe four magic weapons.

Which brings me to my next topic:

Do we want to set up a party fund for stuff that the party will be using? I've gone through about 70 gold worth of scrolls so far, which is fine since that's what they're there for. But do we want to set up a party fund specifically for stuff like that?


yeah, I need a guest pass


We're looking at:

Ziegnod's running a synthesist summoner
Esmee is running a life oracle
Benchdog's running a fighter.
Andy598d hasn't picked a character type yet.
Sylverthorne is running a healing witch.
Christopher Harris is looking at a rogue.
Caffeinated is looking at a rogue/ranger/inquisitor
I'm running a crafting/bloatmage wizard.


I'm set for tuesday as well :D


Ok, I've decided to go wizard after all. I'll send you the sheet sometime tomorrow.

We're looking at:

Ziegnod's running a summoner
Esmee is looking at an oracle
Benchdog's running a fighter.
Andy598d hasn't picked a character type yet.
Sylverthorne is interested but no mention of character.
Finally, I'm running a wizard.


I'm available any time on tuesdays, so whatever works for everyone else works for me.

As for the two-handed fighter, if you want to run one, you're more than welcome to. I'm just as happy playing something with a few more skill points :D And, with the number of people we're looking at for the group currently, we'll probably end up with duplicate roles anyhow.

So, just to get an idea of the party lookout so far:

Ziegnod wants to run a two-handed fighter
Esmee is looking at an oracle
Bigkilla hasn't commented yet on character type
Andy598d hasn't either, might be scheduling issues there
Sylverthorne is interested but no mention of character.
For myself, I'm happy running a two-handed fighter, a lore oracle, or a wizard. Just depends on what other folks feel like playing.

As another side note, should wizard come up, do you have any home rules for magic item creation?


Looking good so far. Do you have an email you'd like us to send our completed character sheets to? Or some other preference?

Also, starting gold: how do you want to do it?


I'll toss my hat in for interest. I've used maptools and skype almost exclusively in my gaming so far, and I don't have a lot of free cash, so I'd have to use one of your guest passes for d20pro.

I know absolutely nothing about the carrion crown adventure path, so I'd probably be looking at running a two-handed melee type.


Side note,

It doesn't matter if you melt every item on all the npc's bodies. If you're following raw, then you're following wealth by level, which means your dm will figure out a way to get you the appropriate amount of wealth. No matter how many swords are sundered, or bows burned.

The nice thing about dungeons is that many of them are made from stone and thus perfect for fireballs.


Honestly, the way out of this box is to sell those gloves and use the money to buy something non-tortle inscribed.

However, consider that you might not want a way out. If those gloves are trapped, that should be more than suitable evidence of bias on the dm's part and you can really get the other players on your side.

Just remember to take them off before striking the soon-to-appear carbon copied npc version of the turtle guy.

Also, you could always talk another character into trying them on first.


wow, holy thread necro, batman!

Sidenote, you can make knowledge checks with a dc of 10 or lower untrained.


I'd say that these are the important words.
"Once per day, your bonded item allows you to cast any one of your spells known"


While the cleric can cast all the spells on the cleric list, there is no mention of "spells known".

Thus I would say that the cleric has no valid spells to use the arcane bond power on.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

What you say applies to rogues, too. Their HD is one size better than wizard or sorc, and he cannot afford as much in Con as those SAD classes can, so their hp ends up being about equal. Rogue has trouble just surviving in melee combat at low levels, too.

And only archers w/ Point Blank Master dont care about 5 ft stepping. All other archers are quite definitely screwed by Step Up. Far more so than a caster ever is. They don't get some check to not provoke with their bowshots.

Nah, you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that archers didn't care about attacks of opportunity. I was saying that archers didn't care if the wizard took a 5ft step or not before casting, because their range means they can use their readied action as long as the wizard is in sight.

But yeah, there are tons of ways to screw classes over. One more or less isn't game breaking.

Looking at it from the other end of the box, blindfight only allows you to retain your dex bonus if your opponent is invisible. If he's using stealth, well, that's not invisibility. If you're flatfooted, it won't help you either.

For flanking foil, the rogue will probably want offensive defense to stack up on dodge bonuses. It's not a given that his opponent is going to hit him, and if he misses then he doesn't get the benefits of flanking foil.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

People actually think DC 15 + 2*spell level is hard?

Like, a 20 to start in casting stat caster (I can do it on 15 point buy, no problem, don't tell me it's hard) has trouble making that by mid levels? Hahano. And nothing's compelling him to use his highest level spell when threatened, either.

And at least he GETS a damn check to use his class feature under duress. One that comes for free with his caster levels, too. No need to spend skill points or anything.

Yep. But in return, no one has to spend a feat to make an attack either.

And it's easy to get a 20 in a starting stat. What's hard is surviving through level 1, 2, 3, until you don't die quite as easily when you bought in for a 20.

Still doesn't get you past those readied attacks though. Archers, btw, are best for that role since they don't have to worry about that 5ft step.


Here's the problem with that. Nothing about that states that the effect stops if the target stops flanking and starts again.

In fact, the duration is "until the start of your next turn". So "while" it is flanking, whether or not it stopped at some point, it's still going to be under the effects of the ability.



1. According to the synthesist entry, the eidolon is translucent. It won't work very well as a disguise because the fellow using it is still clearly visible.

2. Being fused doesn't have an automatic effect on diplomacy. The idea is once you allow that class into your campaign world, most people have a general enough understanding of what it is not to automatically throw rocks or something. Unless that's a specific part of your campaign. Also, it's just an image around the summoner. Now, you can certainly have people who are biased against summoners. I just wouldn't apply a penalty to everyone based on a class feature.

3. This is from the synthesist entry. "The synthesist and eidolon cannot take separate actions. While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear..." Given that the synthesist can still access his backpack, weapons, pouches, and so on, I see no reason that those items couldn't be sundered.

4. Blade of mercy affects slashing weapons, changing it to nonlethal and negating the penalty for doing so. Enforcer grants free intimidates and can provide the shaken condition. It does stack, and there is a ninja build designed to do the same thing, but with sap adept, mastery, and more goodies stacked on top.

5. "While fused, the synthesist loses the benefits of his armor. He counts as both his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist." The armor check penalty is not a benefit, thus it still applies. As long as the summoner is fused with the eidolon, he enjoys all the drawback and limiting factors of his armor while gaining none of the benefits.

As for the second half of your question, I'm not really sure what you're asking. If you mean why doesn't the armor the summoner is wearing affect his ac when flatfooted, well, he gets no benefits from his armor while fused.

If it gets really bad, ask your player to roll up a new character.


You don't need a feat for that with wizards. The concentration check is sufficient. Fighters? How about sunder?


How about while unconscious? :D


Crap, I missed the whole mithril debate! *tear*

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