Look at Conan d20. They use Reputation which is about the same as what you're trying to do. In that game, PCs quickly spend gold on partying and, so, are quickly paupers. There's no such thing a sa 20th level character having nearly a million gold. But what they earn that they keep is their reputation and it has a huge effect on a lot of things. You might find a lot of that idea worth appropriating.
If I had the time to do a home brew, wealth would be like in d20 modern and reputation would be central to the character.
Well, my buddy has conan d20 atlantean edition, and I was over at his place last night, and you are right, it is perfect! Thanks alot for the suggestion, its far better than any system I would have made.
GoldenOpal wrote:
Ideas for getting/losing Renown…
Public Performance:
+/-1 For a successful/failed ‘Memorable Performance’ (DC 25) Perform check for an attentive audience of 100 or more people (PCs/cohorts/followers don’t count) or an ‘Extraordinary Performance’ (DC 30) Perform check for an attentive audience of 50 or more people (PCs/cohorts/followers don’t count). Renown can only be gained/lost by a Public Performance once per every 6 months.
Expert Crafting:
+1 For crafting and carrying/displaying a uniquely exceptional item. Crafting a uniquely exceptional item doubles the item’s price and adds one week to the crafting time as calculated under the Craft skill rules. Renown can only be gained by Expert Crafting once per year.
A great idea, I'll use them with the Conan rules, will add some options for the more skilled characters to get more reputation, thanks :)
That's exactly what the game needs - to nerf charisma! Its far too heavily a desired attribute currently.
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
It's a good concept, though personal charisma would play a part (for good or ill). Perhaps your renown score gets a big bonus for every point of Charisma bonus. That may help to minimize the snarky negative Nancy's (See above). Perhaps.
You are right in that there should be am impact from charisma, so I think it will now be.
Renown = 1/2 character level (minimum 1) +/- your charisma mod (bonus or penalty) + 1/2 your highest ability score mod + misc
This way will reward those that don't dump charisma, and punish those who do.
Also, any ideas on other Misc things that would effect Renown would be great. I didn't add one for special power, as I'm not sure what should be considered a special power, so left it out since all the PC's should be special, and they are the only ones who have this ability... and BBEG's too
This is an idea I came up with to replace Leadership. I know it makes Charisma even more of a dump stat, but I wanted to do something like this since I have never seen the leadership feat used when I have played/Gm'd. I also like the idea of people being able to leverage their renown without a feat. It is a little weaker than the Leadership feat in the Cohort and follower limitations, but also has bonuses to skills. Check, it out, let me know what you think, I would also like some good recommendations on other things that would add to Renown.
Renown Score:
Renown = 1/2 character level (minimum 1) + your highest ability score mod + misc
Misc things add to renown like
+1/+2 Actions: Accomplishing a great task, defeating a legendary opponent (Cumulative)
+1 fair or corrupt
+1 has a base of operations
+1 Belonging to an organization with power.
-2 A cohort has died (Cumulative)
-1 Followers have died
-1 Does not have a base of operations
etc
You can leverage this Renown in several ways.
1. Renown is like an ability score in that it gains a modifier at the same rate as ability scores. When this modifier is positive, it can affect Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perform and Profession skills if it is greater than the ability for that skill.
2. You can acquire a Cohort, who is an NPC with PC class levels, minimum 4 levels lower than you. This cohort can also be a monstrous creature, whose CR is minimum 4 less than yours. Your Renown Score must be a 10 or higher to acquire a cohort.
3. You can acquire followers who are NPCs with NPC class levels. Amount and level of followers is based on your Renown Score Modifier. It is mod *3 in Hit Dice of followers, No follower can have HD higher than 3.
Buying Renown (Bards/Bribes, etc): costs 2000 (+1), 4000 (+2), 8000 (+3), 16000 (+4). Must pay each one, so to get a +3 in Renown, it costs 14,000. Max that can be paid for is +4.
Hiding your Identity/ Alter egos: If a character hides their identity or creates an alter ego, they will have lesser Renown or separate Renown Scores.
Notes:
Cohorts and Followers are designed and built by the player, using the Heroic NPC array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8) and the basic NPC array 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8. They start with basic gear as per NPC wealth. Anything after that must be provided by the character from their wealth. The Cohort increases in level with the character if it travels with them, but only level every 2 character levels if it does not. Followers increase in level but are still limited to max 3HD, so levelling a favoured follower is just fluff instead of having a new follower when your renown increases.
Cohorts are run in combat by the player, but role played by the GM outside combat.
Followers do not generally aid in combat, they either hang back, maintain base camps, or do not travel with the party at all but stay at the base of operations.
Also, thinking of adding this as well:
Renown only applies where your deeds are based out of and grows with your score.
Starts locally (5), Nearest city+ area around(10), Regionally(15), then worldwide (20)
Above is automatic, other events can cause you to be renowned in other areas
Thanks for your replies. This is for a low-magic campaign, something I've never done or even played in before. I wanted to keep the power level of the PC's about the same as with high fantasy (players like having bonuses each level) without having tons of magic items so they will be special when they are discovered (since a sword with flaming property will be an artifact)
Actual magic artifacts will not have plusses, but interesting and flashy magic abilities.
Kolokotroni wrote:
The one comment I would make is that none of these are a choice, they are all automatic, and some would be useless to certain kinds of character. For instance full casters that dont get into combat would get a much of attack and damage bonuses to weapons they dont use. I did something similar and for casters I included an option similar to what super genious games did with their product Runestaves and wyrd wands.
Essentially you can instead of getting a weapon bonus get a +1 bonus to attack rolles, the first die of hp damage spells, and caster level checks when casting a spell. Though maybe for this is might be a school of magic instead of all spells. This would be in place of or in addition to the options for the weapon bonuses. So at 5th level you could take +1 conjuration + 1 evocation, or at 10th you could have +2 conjuration + 2 quarter staves + 1 evocation. Where the +1 to spells applies to any attack rolls associated with the spell, a +1 bonus to a single rolled die of hp damage, and any caster level checks (such as SR or opposing a counterspell action) made when casting the spell.
That is a great idea! I am definitely stealing this as an option for casters to choose under Weapon ability. I made sure to use unarmored + natural options for Armor Ability to cover non-armor wearing classes but never thought about the spell-casters' spells, so thank you very much!
Freesword wrote:
Have you completely removed the associated magic items?
Have you removed the spells which boost those numbers?
If not, then you have just created a jump in character power since while the items and spells do not stack with each other, they would stack (unless you specifically specify that they do not) with these inherent bonuses.
I've gone an even simpler route with magic weapons and armor. Gotten rid of the "+" pricing and the bonuses are tied to character level. So a sword is magic and it's "+" is determined by the level of the character. Resistance could be handled similarly with the bonus tacked onto all magic cloaks for example. Deflection bonuses could also be tacked on to rings automatically.
Natural armor might work as an inherent bonus since most natural armor effects stack with the character's existing base bonus of +0.
Stat boost are not as easily handled. I don't really have much in the way of simple suggestions for that one.
Looks like I screwed up when I posted and only listed that the bonuses are Enhancement under the Weapon and Armor Ability descriptions (and I even spelled it Enchantment!) but all of these bonuses are the same as they would be if items/spells so everything will be enhancement or resistance bonuses. This way nothing will stack.
I have removed all permanent magic items, the ability to craft them has been lost over time. The only options to craft are potions, scrolls and wands and they are rare unless the PCs take the craft feats. Perhaps rods or staves will be available later on, but not planned for now.
The spells themselves, I am debating on keeping, since they will not stack, if the casters want to spend spell slots/spells known on these, I don't mind.
I like your idea too, but I did not want to have any magic items, so I went with this way, where the bonuses are tied to character level independant of the items.
Here is my solution on how to eliminate the big 6 items.
It is not perfect, but pretty simple, which I think is important.
The Characters power comes from within them from their training and experience.
At every level you add +1 to an ability Score (Max +6 to each)
At every level you add +1 to a Base Save (Max +7 to each)
At every odd level, you get an increase in armor ability (+1-5)
At every even level, you get an increase in weapon ability (+1-5)
At every odd level, you get a feat just like before
Do not get the normal ability score increases too at lvl 4,8 etc
* Note the same choice cannot be made twice in a row, so no getting your STR to +5 in 5 levels, it would take at least 10, same with saves, armor and weapon abilities too.
Armor Ability
Allows you to use one type of armor (unarmored, light, med, heavy, natural, shield) better.
Must be proficient to use bonus
bonus is treated as enchantment bonus
ex
at level 5, +2 unarmored, +1 natural
at level 10, +2 heavy, +1 matural, +2 shield
at level 20 +5 light, +5 natural
Weapon Ability
Allows you to use one type of weapon group (axe, blade-light, bow, monk,etc)better.
Must be proficient to use bonus
bonus is treated as enchantment bonus (+1 hit/dmg)
ex
at level 5, +1 axes, +1 bows
at level 10, +3 natural, +2 thrown
at level 20, +5 blades-light, + 2 unarmed, +3 crossbow
Masterwork Items
Masterwork does not grant a numerical bonus, but is a special material granting the non-flashy abilities (but not actually magical)
cold iron, darkwood, mithrael, adamantium all exist but are rare
blighted metal = constant poisoned blade (stolen from paizo messageboards)
wpn: keen, ki focus, etc, etc
arm: fortification (reinforced) energy resistance (forged in extreme environments) etc, etc
In this world no one knows how to make permanent magic items, only consumables and they are rare.
Wealth by Level will be only about 15-30% of what it was before.
I realize AC will be a little lower without all the options, and saves will be a little higher, but I think I'm gonna try it in a Camelot/Robin Hood type campaign soon. Any thoughts or ideas, suggestions welcome.
