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Mage Evolving's page

Goblin Squad Member. 763 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Rynjin wrote:

We're playing two games with it right now.

It's about as balanced as can be at this point. I still make minor tweaks to it from time to time.

On the power scale it's somewhere between a regular game and a Gestalt game. You have a bit more flexibility, but without the extra power boost that two classes in one gives you.

There are a few minor issues (generally, taking Divine Grace is better than having Good saves if you rely on any mental stat, for instance), but none that are very obviously gamebreaking, and your DM can shut down the few that turn out to be.

Is the google document you have the most up to date layout of the rules?

SeeleyOne wrote:

I would also recommend Mutants and Masterminds if you want to make it classless.

The thing is, classes are actually a good idea. Sure, a character COULD be somewhat decent at many things, but even when I played GURPS for 10 years I found that even in a classless system you still want to specialize in something. Generalists generally suck at, well, everything. Not recommended. It is far more effective to pick a niche, and guess what? Classes already created that niche for you.

Even in Mutants and Masterminds you will want to have some sort of theme for your characters. Again, having a minor hobby in everything is generally a Bad Idea.

I think that's why the DM has suggested that we pick a core class and then add to it via some sort ability buy system.

So you are fighter, first and foremost, you can get all the fighter abilities and what not, but for a cost of some sort you can be a roguish fighter (sneak attack) without the need to take a rogue level.

Too be honest I am not sure how this will work exactly but after reading Rynjin "Freeform Class Selection" thread I think it could be fun. I think I will need to hear my DM out on his mechanics.

My DM suggesting something like this and I initially scoffed. But after reading this thread I am wondering if anyone play tested this? Any input would be really appreciated.

christos gurd wrote:
well this is worth checking out at least

Reading through it now thanks!

KestrelZ wrote:

Sounds closer to GURPs Pathfinder.

This. I thought the same thing.

The Dm described the mechanics as influenced by mutants and mastermind and Vampire the masquerade. Both systems and games I love but two very different things. To shoe horn this into Pathfinder and make use of their beastiary and what not makes me a bit hesitant.

Cyrad wrote:
I wrote a bunch of notes for a "class builder" system that a GM can use to either make his own classes or enable a pseudo-classless game. The big twist is that it's all based on progression. In other words, instead of getting X amount of "class points" per level to spend on features, you spend Y points on how those features scale with level. For example, you might spend 9 points to get 9-level spellcasting or 4 points to get spellcasting at 4th level like a paladin or druid. The same goes with how often you get bonus feats and some features like sneak attack and channel energy. While you make all these decisions at character creation, you get to play the character archetype you want to play.

This sounds interesting. Did you ever put that into practice and play a few games?

"Why bother with classes?" Said my new DM.

The new homebrew that was proposed to me suggested that we use Pathfinders core mechanics and the original base classes but we allow "augmentation" of those classes. So rather than all of that "multiclassing nonsense" and crazy "archetype stacking" you can simply purchase abilities from other classes. You want sneak attack or access to spells you simply use experience points to buy those abilities (they are watered down in most cases) while maintaining your original class. It sounded a bit too video gamish for me but I am wondering if anyone has played anything like this.

Thus far abilities that were up for purchase were:
sneak attack, rage, cleric spells (very limited number), channel, arcane spells (limited), inspire, favored enemy...

Personally, I don't that I would enjoy the game. I mean I have played games where you can design and "augment" your character in almost anyway you want but never in a pathfinder/DnD setting. How might this work? Could it work?

Thoughts? The game if we agree to play it would start in 2 weeks. I think that at the moment this is a very big IF...

As I've stated it's your game and I understand where you are coming from but I have a few questions:

What do the players think?
I mean are they having fun?
Have you asked them if they think that the wands are impacting their play style or the decisions that they make in significant ways?
What does the party look like? Is there a cleric?

As an aside. In my experience class specific expendables are more often than not the reason why a party turns back in a dungeon delve rather than hit points. Things like # of spells left, # of rage rounds, etc. I just wonder why these wands might be causing such a disturbance...

Combat is not slowed down by the iterative attacks rather it is slowed down by too many other options. Rolling to hit only takes as long as it takes to add up the dice. High level spells, Special abilities, rules lawyers, rules lawyering, etc. these are the things I hate to deal with as DM. They can bog down combat to a crawl. If you want a stream lined game look at E6.

Druid for consistency. Wizards are just to squishy at the start. However, I am a big fan of the Inquisitor and say they would come in the top 5.

GnomeStew has a good book on a NPCs.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

What's nerfed?

Nerfed = to weaken or make less effective.

I hadn't seen all the Teamwork feats in UC. I partiularly like paried opportunist and Broken Wing Gambit.

I think the coordinated charge ability might be way too awesome to even attempt.

I had a design idea. Two characters that work together in combat and rely on each other to set up ideal battle conditions. Ideally, I like a rogue or ninja and a fighter who work in concert to destroy their opponents. However if you have any other ideas let me know.

Any idea on what teamwork feats or feats in generally might work really well together. Looking over the teamwork feats I am generally underwhelmed but perhaps someone else has attempted this.

Any ideas would be helpful.

Control/god wizards are always welcomed as are buff type bards.

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Reading this over I see where you are coming from OP. However, I think that in this particular case you might want to just restrict access to CLW wands. As you said there are two small towns near the dungeon. These small towns will have access to ~75% of items below 1300 gp. That however does not mean that they will have an infinite number of these items. Most likely the villages are getting these items delivered once or twice every couple of months. They could very easily sell out. Especially, if other adventurers are rolling through town on occasion.

Heck I live in a city of 3 million people and there are times when I find myself unable to purchase specialty goods (like clw wands or Densite plaster) because they are simply out of stock in every store I go to.

Bandw2 wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
Oh, also you could possibly bolt him permanently inside of a like iron full body suit with no hinges in a sitting position, and people have to feed him. It's more like he's buried under Metal than being restrained. all bolted to the floor of course.
I'd see that like super ultr-max, the kind of thing you get for murdering 20 guards and nearly escaping.
well, when you're forcibly imprisoning someone who could kill someone with their mind...

I'd like to see the suit have wheels and another prisoner is responsible for carting him around the prison. Not because it makes sense but I think it would be funny.

1. You are the DM. You have ultimate say in what is allowed in your world and what is not. In the end you will need to understand all of the material that the players bring to the table. If there is anything you don't fully understand or have the time to learn then you can simply say it doesn't exist in your world. Besides the Advance Class Guide is still going to have kinks that haven't been ironed out yet.

2. Depending on the caster the guards might force them to wear iron mittens on their hands greatly improving the chance of spell failure. Or perhaps the prison itself is in an antimagic zone. As for monks... there isn't much you can do. But depending on the prison perhaps everyone is wearing manacles or they are chained to a partner.

All the same it sounds like a fun storyline.

One issue I have with the build isthat the two ranger archtypes that you choose (warden and guide) can not be selected together. They both replace hunter's bond.

I game with a 30+ years crowd. We all have wives, jobs, kids, etc. Everyone at the table could be doing something else and in some cases should be doing something else. So we all understand how precious free time is. I think it's that understanding that has kept our group together for 4+ years.

Explain yourself to prospective new players and I think you'll have much better luck. That said you might want to use something like in order to keep track of everyone's availability.

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EntrerisShadow wrote:
You're kidding, right? That would hardly be a rogue fix at all. The problem is he already has to work to be situationally useful. Other classes aside from the Duelist get a version of Canny Defense (like the Kensai, for example) and it doesn't hurt the Duelist at all. And make it a rogue talent? You may as well not change the class at all.

I have to agree. Setting up a sneak attack is hard enough that the rogue should really be rewarded for it.

We instituted a 3 month policy. A book has to be out for at least 3 months before you can use it in game. This allows the message boards to solve a lot of our problems we might encounter in game for us. It also lets everyone get familiar with the content before hand.

So short answer no but that might change in a few months.

Simple monk fixes:

Full BAB, D10, and altered Ki powers.

Some suggestions that we've tried:

Stunning Ki:
You can use your focused ki to up the DC of your stunning fist. Each ki point you spend in this manner raises the DC by +1. You can not spend more than 1/2 your monk level in ki points in this manner.

I was afraid that this would get too powerful but when we tried it out the monk had a 3/4 BAB so he never hit with it and when he did he never dumped all his ki into it.

Ki Dash:
At 5th level you may spend 2 ki points to move 20ft as a swift action. This movement invokes attacks of opportunities.

This is one that we stole from Dabblers thread on Monk ideas. It made sense to have the character that thrives on mobility be able to be mobile and effective in combat. Again it was hardly game breaking.

Interesting that this is a feat.

We've been doing this untrained for the longest time with a bluff/intimidate/diplomacy check. Really it's just a thinly veiled excuse to curse at and make fun of the DM.

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I have found this thread incredibly enlightening. Thank you so very much for the effort you've put in Dabbler.

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It sounds like you are all good to go. I think the build sounds like a lot of fun.

While not an item exactly I recently introduced these to my campaign.

54. Waystone Constructed by a long lost civilization these large magical pillars can be found along the old kings road every 50 miles or so. Sought out by travelers these pillars give off an aura of warmth (20 ft), Can create water (10 gallons a day), and can cast daylight.

Headfirst wrote:

For example, here's my idea on how to fix rogues.

Ambush: For purposes of sneak attacks, the rogue's base attack bonus from rogue levels is equal to his rogue level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the rogue uses his normal base attack bonus.

Canny Defense: When wearing light or no armor and not using a shield, a rogue adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per rogue class level as a dodge bonus to his Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon. If a rogue is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied his Dexterity bonus, he also loses this bonus.

One of my players suggested the following house-rule and it worked out just fine.

Stab them in the Squishy bits: All attacks involving sneak-attack get a bonus to attack and damage equal to the number of sneak attack die being rolled.

Functionally it's the same what you have suggested and very easy to implement.

Can I ask what the background of the character is? And what you ultimately want her/him to do?

From what I understand shocking grasp doesn't interact with water.

I'm going to say no. It's in a pocket dimension.

I like to think about it like this.
Said creature and the PCs are in combat. The creature takes a PC down to zero or a little below. That PC stops fighting and falls down. Does the creature stop fighting to? No. There are still others that are attacking it. If I stop to eat or waste my turn beating a downed PC it's an attack I could have used to down another PC.

That said I only really use this logic for none intelligent monsters. Any enemy with a intelligence over 14 knows that you finish the job.

Also flesh eating mindless undead will also begin eating PCs the minute they go down. They don't care about their well being just lunch.

I personally don't give out my PDFs. If there is a map or something that needs to be shown to the PCs I will copy it as a smaller PDF and show it to the PCs. The newest DM in our group has a computer monitor at the head of the table if there is anything he wants us to see he throws it up on the screen via a connection to his tablet. It's kind of nice especially when fighting monsters to see a picture of what you are fighting. He'll also use if for descriptive purposes. Ex. the room is filled with trash and then he shows us a trash filled room.

I recently started making 3D terrain for my games.
TheDMGinfo youtube channel is pretty great although I think he makes somethings overly complicated.
We also made a 2 tiered gaming table. The second tier is just tall enough that a 2 liter of Mountain Dew fits underneath. This lets everyone have their food and drink and books and dice out with out having it on the board. The original table was super easy modify and it cost less than $10. The best part is that the top tier just comes right off so the wife can't complain about the stupid look table.

Rikkan wrote:
Mage Evolving wrote:
Diminuendo wrote:

Me and my GM have a disagreement on this. he told me to ask the Paizo forums.

One side thinks that 5-foot steps and free action can only be activated during your turn.

The other thinks they can be activated any time.

From my understanding you can use a free action anytime you are taking an action. So free actions are ok during your turn, during AoO, and during readied actions. Or at least that is how I am understanding it.
Since I can use a swift action whenever I can use a free action, does that mean in your games I can cast swift action spells during AoO?

To clarify. I don't believe that free actions and swift actions are the same. The quote you are posting is not saying they are equivalent they are simply similar. If they were the same thing then they wouldn't have 2 different words. That said I seem to recall on of the devs saying that you can drop an item during an AoO. You can also talk, fall, draw an arrow, etc. To me this implies that free actions are allowed. This is simply my interpretation and I seem to be in the minority.

Hi Razgrizfox.
Welcome to the boards. I think your rogue build is pretty solid. While the rogue may not be the most powerful class in the game, I find it one of the funnest to play. It sounds as if you are staying with the CRB and for what it's worth there is little improvement to offer your character if that is the case. Other than switching point blank shot to spring attack. As was pointed out earlier this will let you get in and out of combat while possibly delivering one solid hit. Just remember that if you only take one attack that you are not two weapon fighting so don't apply any of the penalties.
If you are willing to use the Advanced players guide you can take the scout and rogue archetype and then every time you charge you will deliver a sneak attack with d8 damage.
To answer your question people are taking 2 RT feats at level six because they are selecting Rogue as their favored class and opting for the 1/6 rogue talent option every level instead of hitpoints or skill points.

I've never taken issue with players trying to figure out a creatures stats. If they want to play the game like that and are having fun doing so then what's the harm.

Normally, I will allow a player to use a knowledge (appropriate check) roll to determine what it is that they are fighting and possibly its strengths and weaknesses. I generally use the Monsters CR +10 for an identification and add a +5 difficulty if it's a rare monster. IF they roll Monster CR+12 then they know its strengths (it breaths fire). If they roll monster CR+15 then they know its weaknesses as well (it fears potatoes). Its a house rule developed by the DMs in our group and it works fine.

Well it's called Elemental fist and as a monk ability it replaces Stunning fist. So I would say no you can't apply it to your weapon but yes apparently as RAW you are ok to use it on a weapon.

Kazaan wrote:

Side-note: While not "technically" what you're looking for, look at the Sunblade. It's a Bastard Sword that "spoofs" the handling of a Shortsword. This means that, while it does the damage and has the impact of a full Bastard Sword, it only weighs as much as a shortsword and handles like a light weapon rather than a 1-h weapon (or 2-h if lacking EWP). This means that a Sunblade 1 size too big for you deals damage comparable to a Greatsword, but you wield it as a 1-h weapon (a light weapon 1 size too big is treated as 1-h) for -2 improper size penalty. So a Medium character could wield a Large Sunblade as a 1-h weapon and do 2d8 damage at -2 attack one-handed as compared to a Medium Greatsword dealing 2d6 damage two-handed. It also saves you a feat as martial proficiency covers shortswords and proficiency with a shortsword covers the Sunblade. You could even go a step further and wield a Huge Sunblade as a 2-h weapon for -4 attack and 3d8 damage. A Huge Sunblade would be about 16' long; you're basically swinging around the wing of a Cesna.

This. There are two handed weapons that can be used with one hand. The bastard sword is another 2 handed weapon that can be use with a single hand if you have exotic weapon training.

In other words if you have to roll to hit with it you are all good.

My2Copper wrote:

My interpretation of RAW is that you have to burn every square on its own.

I handle it that every square subject to fire burns free in that round. So a torch would clear 1 5ft square while a burning hands spell would burn all the squares it affects.

RAW I have to agree with My2Copper. The 5ft square would be not be a random square but the one you set on fire.

Give the campaign a little bit of personality by explaining a local cultural tradition. Maybe every time you enter another's home you need to break bread with them to establish that you mean them no harm. Or some other quirky tradition. It's little things that bring life to a world.

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Diminuendo wrote:

Me and my GM have a disagreement on this. he told me to ask the Paizo forums.

One side thinks that 5-foot steps and free action can only be activated during your turn.

The other thinks they can be activated any time.

From my understanding you can use a free action anytime you are taking an action. So free actions are ok during your turn, during AoO, and during readied actions. Or at least that is how I am understanding it.

daimaru wrote:
Mage Evolving wrote:
The toughness feat adds 3 hitpoints to the total plus an extra hitpoint for every level beyond 4.
No, like Zhayne says, an extra hitpoint for every level beyond 3. So you get +1 at level 4.

I stand corrected. Beyond third. Thanks for catching that mistake.

DnD Android wrote:

I've got a question about increasing your hit dice? I read the toughness feat that you gain more HP as you gain hit dice (...when you level). So does that mean every time i level up I also gain a hit dice.


Level 1 fighter with 1 hd 10. When I hit level two is my hit dice now 2 hd 10?

I've looked in the core rule book but it's hard to determine what happens to your character after level 1. Thanks.

Lets say you are a level 1 fighter with a constitution score of 12. As a fighter you get 1 ten-sided dice of hit-points per level. And because you have a constitution score of 12 you gain an additional +1 at every level. If you had a con of 14 it would be +2, a 16 would be a +3, etc. In order to ensure that you don't die from a stubbed toe everyone gets their max hit-points at level one.

Every level after 1st your fighter gets to roll a ten-sided dice and add that to his hitpoints. then you add your constitution modifier in this case +1 to the total. The toughness feat adds 3 hitpoints to the total plus an extra hitpoint for every level beyond 4.

Now the question becomes can you even use dispell magic to counter a spell with instantaneous duration?

wraithstrike wrote:

1. You can not dispel instantaneous spells so no.

prd wrote:
The effect of a spell with an instantaneous duration can't be dispelled, because the magical effect is already over before the dispel magic can take effect.

Also there is a difference between holding an action and readying an action.

The sorcerer should have been using a ready action because he was waiting for a condition to be met, not hold action. If the sorcerer readies an action he can interrupt the wizard's turn to cast his spells. If he is only holding his action then he has to wait for the wizard's turn to complete.

So let's say the sorcerer had actually readied his action, then he would get his turn and the wizard could not do anything about it, even if the sorcerer had cast a spell that was not instantaneous.

For clarification: The sorcerer was in fact readying an action. They were in rounds and he had run from the fight 2 rounds prior knowing that the PCs would follow him down the tight corridor and into his lab.

My logic at the time for why he could fire off the second quickened lightning bolt was the line:

Swift actions can be taken any time you could take a free action.

Since during a readied action you can in fact take a free action I saw it as legal.

We ran into a bit of confusion last night and I would really appreciate any input that you all might offer.

A 13th level sorcerer holds his action so that he can fire off 2 lightning bolts when the PCs open the door. One of the lightning bolts is a quickened lightning bolt.

The door opens and the sorcerer fires his standard lightning bolt.

1. Can the PC wizard who has already taken a move action to open the door casts a quickened dispell magic and cancel the lightning bolt?

2. Can the sorcerers second quickened lightning bolt be canceled with a regular dispell magic?

3. Can the sorcerer even cast a quickened lightning bolt since he held his action?

When ever we have a short handed party we introduce the NPC Ban Daid.

He is a merciful healing cleric who has sworn off violence but knows that the PCs are doing the right thing so he aids in their adventures. He is 1- level below the rest of the party and is played by the PCs. Every round his character sheet is passed from one player to the next and his action is decided by that player. Normally he just cowers, casts bless, bursts, heals, or removes afflictions. Since he carries no weapons he can't flank and will normally go a the bottom of the round.

It's an easy work around for the party and works well with my players since none of them ever want to play a cleric.

Can a witch use a hex while grappled? If so is there a concentration check?

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