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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 902 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 8 Pathfinder Society characters.


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The -2 penalty is less significant, as bonuses to attack generally scale more quickly than bonus to defense. If you find yourself using a build on these boards with a martial class, you'll likely find yourself hitting on a 2+ a good percentage of the time. That said TWF definitely hits its stride much later than 2HW do.

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1) No, they need to make a fly check. This is not usually relevent in 3.x or Pathfinder by the fact you can choose your starting direction at the beginning of your turn without reference to your previous turn. But if you want to make the turn all within one turn (flying around a buoy or whatever) you would need to make the check.

2) If you winged flight, and fail by more than 5 you would fall. If using non-winged flight you just cannot preform that maneuver.

3) You can hover just by making the fly check. You cannot produce the debris cloud without the feat.


I think you will find 3.5 largely as complex, but I doubt you see any real issues with using it. Though clumsy flier are were always a frustration as its very difficult to make to make a <45 degree turn on a grid map. But if you feel that much more comfortable with them, I doubt your players will mind.

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Bob Bob Bob wrote:

That's the same price as 4.8 happy sticks. You will have to blow 240 wand charges to equal buying this item. It's possible you can do that in a day of adventuring but we're looking at more like a month.

Please. I have seen people use 240 wand charges after a single encounter. You are talking about an adventuring party career source of HP healing.

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

Do you want examples of at-will first level spells?

No. We want to compare it to the cost of things with similar effects.

Make comparisons to magic items that give healing. Particularly unlimited healing per day... over multiple people. Most items with unlimited healing are incredibly expensive ring of regeration/pearl white ioun stone at 90k/20k respectively.

When the Boots of the Earth were printed, they became the knew baseline for the cheapest (by far) form of unlimited magical healing (to my knowledge). So its what you should be making the comparison to when pricing your unlimited healing wand.

Honestly I think it would be a steal at 10k and probably price it significantly higher if I was to price it. ...Of course I would attach the only heals damage taken while wearing the Boots of the Earth in my home games to thwart passing them around.

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No one complained about the cure minor wounds orision, because you could only cast a finite number of 0th level spells per day. So it translates to 5ish HP per day.

But you are right. Essentially the GM needs is going to set a price for healing. Its lots of CLW wands, infernal healing wands, boots of the earth, or some other effect its pretty much assumed that if time is not an issue PCs are going to fully heal after most combats.

That said if you want to use Boots of the Earth as a baseline at 1 hp per round for 5k (where its usually considered a good deal). Your wand should probably run twice that, as it heals 5.5hp per round and is probably less cumbersome than passing a pair of boots around the party.

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I general expect them to pay the cost to scribe it into their spellbook beyond the free spells they would gain from leveling up. Assuming at some point while they were leveling they had a source to copy from. If they are very high level, they can side step a fair amount by purchasing Blessed book.

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Well, it never actually made it into an official FAQ or errata, so I think it kind of died in committee. I mean, that comment is from 2010...

No. If you enter into your time machine and read the shield master feat pre-errata it read:

"Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attacks rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another weapon. Add your shield's shield bonus to attacks and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was an enhancement bonus."

That is what the rule was when that particular JB post was made.

After the 2nd printing it was errata'd as follows:

Page 133—In the Shield Master feat, change the last sentence of the Benefit paragraph to read as follows: Add your shield’s enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls made with the shield as if it was a weapon enhancement bonus.

Now, its not exactly the change the JB implied with his post but they did errata it.

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tsuruki wrote:

Small creatures are much larger then the backpack allows. A halfling/ gnome is roughly the size of an adolescent kid 12-14 years old, you dont carry an adolescent kid that age in a backpack like its nothing.

The average halfling male is 2'8" +2d4" tall. That's about the size of a 2-3 year old human (earthling). By weight they are about the size of 4 year old. Logically its actually fairly reasonable to carry them around.... they should probably logically have a -12 penalty to strength too but its really the game mechanics that should shut it down.

A caster doing this doesn't bother me so much as a GM. I generally disallow free movement as much as I can because of melee getting free full attacks off. It shouldn't be better to be mounted on a human, than a horse. And if you are getting a full round attack at the end of it, its much better.

If you a GM. Do you know the player and the table? Is he or anyone going to be upset at or abuse the power given to the player? Or will it be an primarily enjoyable experience for everyone involved.

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I am too lazy to deconstruct this at the moment. But wouldn't a way to check would be to look at the fly skill check modifier of creatures in the bestiary with a constant-fly spell in effect. (Most devils some others). See if that includes the bonus for good maneuverability or not.

Not that the bestiary is perfect, but if its fairly consistent then that's probably the way it should work.

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wraithstrike wrote:

GM: Why is your smite giving you a +3 to attack?

Player: Because Herolab said so

GM: Wrong answer.

... Do you really prefer the answer, "I don't know." Or "because my friend who built my character for me told me it was." I hear those answers at least as often if not more often than because HeroLab said so. I know players with 10+ years of experience in 3.x/Pathfinder who still use those answers. They just don't care about rules mastery.

A very limited percentage of players familiarizes themselves with the rules to the degree that those of us reading 70+ posts into a thread on the rules forums do. Turning away players who fall short of rules mastery in this incredibly complex game because they chose to use a crutch to help them get a handle of this ever expanding rule set is not an ideal strategy for the health of the game.

Hero lab is an incredible, fairly user friendly way to get people into the game. Take a novice playing pathfinder for the first time at a convention. I have far more faith and believe the player will have a better experience spending 15 minutes with hero lab, than 60 minutes filling out a character sheet with a pencil with the a stack of rulebooks in front of him, or playing a pregen. And that hero lab player probably has a better understanding what choices he made to. Is he an instant rules master, no but neither is the guy with the rule book or the pregen.

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Nefreet wrote:

If you only brought a character built with HeroLab, I have every right to not allow that character at my table.

Assuming you mean for PFS, I don't believe you have that right technically. Any more than I can kick you for bringing a (vastly more difficult to read) hand written character sheet.

If you mean for your personal home game. Sure you can pretty much set whatever rules you want. But if you go to a convention or public setting and refuse to play because you don't like the layout of someones character sheet I expect you to become persona non grada pretty darn quickly.

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I don't see how are you are getting a +6? What is letting you cast 6th level spells as a blood rager.

Overall I think the fact that the blood rager spell list is so limited, as are their spells per day, and the fact I rarely see bloodragers pump their DC to obscene levels, I don't see this as a problem.

Is there some particular combination giving you trouble?

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The official rule is this:

"In order to utilize content from an Additional Resource, a player must have a physical copy of the Additional Resource in question, a name-watermarked Paizo PDF of it, or a printout of the relevant pages from it, as well as a copy of the current version of the Additional Resources list. (If you're bringing a printout of the pages, it must be from the Paizo PDF and not text copied and pasted into a blank word processing document). Since the core assumption for Pathfinder Society Organized Play is the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook and Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, we cannot assume that every Game Master will have the products listed below. As such, it's up to players to bring these items in order to familiarize their Game Masters with the rules."

Hero Labs is a very customizable product. Its not really realistic for every GM to be familiar enough with Hero Labs to be able to discriminate between user created content and official content (just like they don't expect the GM to have read and understood every rule in every book.)

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You would take the feat to wield a (good) reach weapon in 1 hand. Allowing you to 2wf with them or combine a shield etc. Or they plan on maximizing their size beyond the one step in which case the -2 penalty may be less significant compared to the damage buff.

That said it's not so game breaking I'd disallow it for a mechanical reason. If you want to do it for re reasons then go ahead.

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See I would get almost the other way. Silence as a standard action is vastly more powerful. Since it reduces the casting time from 1 round to standard it because a counter any verbal spell (via readied action).

Thus I would vastly increase the cost silence portion (because of the reduced activation time.) Where as the +3 ac seems fine to me.

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Yes. Though as he doesn't have a spell list he'd have to UMD the wands.

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Base price to buy.

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No. A Neutral Good character would not qualify for the Summon Neutral Monster feat. There are 9 possible alignments. This feat allows for 3 (Lawful Neutral, Neutral, and Chaotic Neutral).

You would qualify for Summon Good Monster which allows for the Lawful Good, Neutral Good, and Chaotic Good Alignments).

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1. No, the speed property grants the wielder an extra attack not the weapon. As a GM, I'd probably let you use the attack if you so wished so long as you aren't trying to stack multiple haste like effects. But by RAW no the weapon would not benefit from speed.

2. Being colossal does not changes its reach. The dancing property defines the length at which it can attack. Against adjacent creatures or up to 10 feet away if the weapon has the reach property (which the spiked chain doesn't.)

3. Its expensive, and requires an action to activate, only has a 4 round duration, and is dependent on the users BAB to hit. As a GM I wouldn't object. By the time this could be afforded (even just a +1 dancing weapon) 6d6 damage isn't that much. Honestly I could probably be talked into giving you a discount depending on how your character compares to the rest of the party.

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Craps, might be an easy game to learn. But that's a gross oversimplification that would gives the player a substantial advantage.

Though I don't really believe most players bother to learn the rules. Modern craps has a relatively slim (0-2%) house edge on many of the bets, some bets are true even. So its a easy game to play, but the odds certainly don't favor the player.

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Trekkie90909 wrote:

Then please explain the bolded section to me, because I don't see any language in the natural attack, or attack bonus (see quote below) language which prevents it.

They are refering to attack types that default to secondary attacks. For example the aboleth (bestiary 1, p8) has only tentacle attacks. Tentacle attacks are generally secondary attack, but since tentacles are the only kind of natural attack the aboleth has they are primary attacks (full Bab to hit, and full strength to damage.) But despite having a BAB of +6, it has no iterative attacks with natural weapons.

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It's a choice. And is better for DR, very rarely does a mob have 2 or more differing types of weapon shape DR. (Usually achieved via spell buffs.) But I would say it is just as often you don't want to do a particular type of damage (ie split an ooze or something similar. )

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1) Yes. You'll find the majority of people follow the rules (or make a reasonable effort to do so), if for no other reason than its a lot of work to explain what rules one should follow and one can ignore.

2) If you ignore the rule as a power grab, then its mildly unbalancing. But if your game is so close to broken that a trait pushes you there, its destine to be broken anyhow.

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Not usually. Most instances of stat drain/damage are granted by supernatural or extraordinary ability rather than the natural attack alone and as that draining/damaging ability is not listed in the ability gained section of your polymorph spell you don't get that portion of the damage.

Undead Anatomy 4, might be an exception but its really poorly written so I'd consult the DM.

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Ssalarn wrote:

I'm just curious where in that equation this assertion that archery does better damage came from...

You are confusing guns and class features. Without the gunslinger class feature they don't get dex to damage where as anyone can buy a bow with strength to damage irregardless of class features.

If you include class features your comparison needs to iclude smite, favored enemy, weapon training or whatever else and the comparisons gets very murky in than just bow vs guns.

THat said. I think double barrel guns are broken beyond measure and make it a house rule to require a standard action to discharge both barrels at once.

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It functions the same way as any other weapon upgrade.

Take the cost of the final weapon: +1 redeemed quarterstaff would be 32,300gp.

Subtract the value of the item you are upgrading: +1 unholy quarterstaff 18,300gp.

You pay the difference. 14,000gp.

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Franko a wrote:

WBL in my opinion does not award good roleplaying and good roll-playing.

Wealth by level is a game balance guideline. It the tool by which authors/GMs can estimate some of the variable power of the party. If you have 10x WBL, then what challenges a 1x WBL party will probably be significantly easier for you. If your GM is customizing encounters based on the actual play of whats going on at the table, than by all means throw wealth by level out the window.

Fabricating instant wealth doesn't strike me as particularly good roleplaying either, irregardless of how much weight/size mathematics and the detailed compilation of what raw materials are consumed. Unless there is a lot more going on not mentioned, this looks like a hand my GM a printed list, and ask for the appropriate amount of coins in return.

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The price of iron is irrelevant. The material to create a product, whether via fabricate or via mundane crafting is 1/3 the finished price of product.

You attempt to be less cheesy fails. Asking for an instant profit of 32,721gp for what an NPC would change 450gp+material compent cost. You ask how many 9th level wizards there are in the world?

Answer: Most large towns (population 2,000-5,000) have 5th level spell casting services available. Otherwise read as, anywhere that would want to buy 66,000gp worth of chain probably has them available.

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The Raw material to craft product X with value Y costs 1/3 of value Y. The are no recipies for crafting beyond that. But yes, you have found a path to infinite wealth. By RAW, pathfinder is not a very complicated economic simulator and can essily be broken.

If your game is interested in flushing out economic details expect the GM toake lots of house rules to make the ecomony less trival to manipulate.

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DrakeRoberts wrote:
Okay, but the question is, by RAW, can I choose them? Be it because I want to look like them, or I like their particular (granted) ability set, or whatever? Its for PFS, so I need to know rules-wise as opposed to functional-wise. Thanks!

At present nothing from mythic adventures is PFS legal without being list on an adveture record as it is not listed on the aditional resources page.

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Honestly the being blind doesn't really change anything. You still have to define you own arbitrary standards.

If you want a general answer, I'd go:

Viewed Once: spent rounds there. (And you can't see it currently)
Seen Casually: spent minutes there. (or you can see it currently)
Studied Carefully: spent tenss of minutes there. (or searched the room, for hidden stuff)
Very Familiar: spent hours there.

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Most people recoginize that hypotenuse of a 1" by 1" triangle is not equal to 1.5". Its an approximation to give the player easier numbers to work with than 1.41421" which would be more acurate.

The majority of time it works out in the players favor allowing for small diagonal corrections at no cost. Its only on fairly long diagonal runs that the difference exceeds a square of movement.

But if you and your players want a more accuate number, than please house rule a more accurate diagonal movement pattern. But for my game players have enough trouble with the 1 2 1 2 pattern.

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The same reason they are personal rather than target person spells to begin with. When designing spells restricting the target to personal only allows the designer to put a little more power into them. Notably with regard to martial enhancing abilities.

That said, I can't tell you how many martial's I see walking around with cracked vibrant purple ioun stones to circumvent this restriction.

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My knee jerk response is to drop spell combat. Force the magus to make the same cast or full attack trade that bards make.

That is probably will crush the class though. Instead perhaps have spell combat replace you highest bab attack in a full attack sequence while retaining the free hand requirement. I would probably also nix the ability of spellstrike to replace the free touch attack assoicated with touch spells. Though still allow discharge via a weapon attack is if it wrre an unarmed strike or natural weapon attack.

This puts you 1 attack behind a full bab character, but still allows for spellcasting and melee attacks in the same full round action.

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Monkeygod wrote:

I mean, if I'm a Sorcerer, I can cast Shocking Grasp in round one, and forgo my free attack. Then, in the second round, I could hit my opponent with my staff, which would deal its normal weapon damage, and then the Shocking Grasp damage, correct?

No. Normally you can only discharge a held spell with a touch attack or a natural weapon/unarmed strike attack. Also the ability to trade in your free action touch attack for a free action damage dealing attack is non-trivial as well.

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Rogar Stonebow wrote:
Do you know where I can find this general consensus?

A charge is a specific full-round action, distinct and different from a full attack action. Thus you cannot combine them.

Otherwise everyone would take full attack actions after a charge, and pounce would have no value.

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bob_the_monster wrote:

Is there a simple rule that prevents min-maxing and power gaming? Maybe some suggestion in the SRD that deals with this. Inevitably in my games, one player ends up creating a cheesy min-maxed silly character.

Play a different game. Since every choice you make that benefits the party or yourself can easily be defined as min-max (because there is a choice that would make you less effective) play a game with fewer choices.

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Use the performance combat section of ultimate combat (same book as the Urban Barbarian.)

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Technically you get would get 2 separate similar abilities. But often its the result of a typo.

Ala, the pistoleer's pistol training not replacing the gunslinger's gun training (pre errata). But it was pretty obvious it was suppose to. Try to use common sense, and consult with the GM.

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Taku Ooka Nin wrote:

So here is my question:

If crafting personal magic items is it possible to make an item auto-cast something under certain circumstances?

I would assume just use standard spell pricing, and add in the cost for a contingency spell for however many charges/day. That would seem to be the best starting point at least. Possibly adjusting price based on how exacting/useful the predefined contingency trigger is in combination with the given spell.

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Nefreet wrote:

You're the second person to ask that in this thread. Does the existence of their separate entries in the CRB not mean the same thing to you as it does for me?

I see them as two clearly distinct items. Separate, with their own cost, and their own weight.

I can't be wrong on that, right? It's just people not cracking open their Core book and looking for themselves, right?

I see them as separate parts of the same item. Much like the a sword's hilt and a sword's blade. But I can indeed read that section of the core rulebook. Even under the shield spike heading on page 153, it says the 'spiked shield' can be made into a magic weapon, nothing to me implies that you enchant only the spikes independently from the shield.

Irregardless, what I can't do is find professionally published (preferably WotC/Paizo) material with stat blocks with character having +1 flaming (or anything weapon) enchant on their shield spikes particularly when the shield has a separate shield enchantment on it.

What I want is examples to work with. For example, if I wanted to state that the bashing property the the shield spike modification stack (argued at length on these boards), I could back it up by saying look at the Scarred Barbarian (NPC Codex, p. 25). The scarred barbarian NPC, by being a useable Paizo printed example amply demonstrates that the Bashing shield property and spike shield property both do seems to stack becoming a weapon that's base damage is 2d6. (Unfortunately the fact that the stat blocks appears to ignore that shield master eliminates the two-weapon fighting penalties and that it seems to treat the dwarven waraxe as a light weapon discredit this particular stat block a fair bit as well.)

I would be most appreciative if you happen to know where I could find some NPC stat blocks in published material with shield spikes enchanted as weapons I'd like to know where they are located. I do realize that the core rulebook does state that 'shields' and 'spiked shields' can be I would like to see stat blocks where it has been done. I think this will require more effort than just cracking the core rulebook.

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Mojorat wrote:
Does anyone have a book example of a shield being enchsnted seperate as a weapon? Usually its shield spikes that get enchanted.

I think the shield (spiked or otherwise) enchanted as a weapon is something authors avoid like the plague. I've tried to keep my eye out for a shield having both concurrent weapon and armor enchant (again spiked or normal) and never seen one in Wotc or Paizo print. That said I am curious as to where you have seen shields spikes enchanted separate from the shield.

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In general, when using dimensional travel and arriving in solid object (ala Dimension Door, Blink) you a shunted to an available free space and take a minor amount of damage. I think this would qualify as a reasonable expectation as to what would occur, though I fully expect significant variance from GM to GM.

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1. No, its a musket with the battered quality. All the archetype does is eliminate your option to select a pistol or blunderbuss.

2. No. Early firearms explicitly state that you must reload each barrel individually. This remains true whether its a one handed firearm or two.

3. I don't see a question here.

4. In general if it says muskets it means musket in the same way longswords refers to a longsword. ie rapid reload (muskets) is different and non-inclusive of rapid reload (double-barrel muskets). If they want to be inclusive of all types of two-weapon firearms they will state such. Or if a particular weapon should benefit from abilities of a similar weapon (like longbows and composite longbows) it would state such in the weapon description.

I doubt you see a PFS specific ruling as this doesn't appear to a be a society specific question rather they appear to be general questions about game rules.

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Please tell me how you can do anything and have it not be offensive to someone.

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SlimGauge wrote:

I disagree. Figure the cost of your barding as if it was regular armor, all inclusive. Then multiply. Otherwise you can buy mithral Mammoth armor and dismantle it for a profit just from the weight of mithral.

If you could dismantle for profit, then a medium sized mithril chain shirt dismantles profit just as well. The chain shirt 12.5 lbs mithril, you have 6250 gp worth of mithril for 1100. If dismantling for profit is your concern, then mithril would have to have it cost tied to weight irregardless of size, shape, or classification of the armor.

The cost should be generally be balanced against the in game benefit. So in general I'd just add mithril as a flat cost. That said it does get debated and several related threads were linked.

That said, the 3.x FAQ more or less says multiple x4 with some stupidity about the mwk cost worked in. So I'd expect so much debate on the issue, I'd suggest playing conservative and pay the full x4 price unless the individual GM you are working with says otherwise.

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Belabras wrote:
Anyone know? I think they are both untyped bonuses, but I'm not sure.

Piranha strike explicitly states that it cannot be used in conjunction with power attack.

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When creating a new world you need to ask yourself how many gods am as the GM going to present to my characters. The gods either need to be very simple. Or relatively few. It takes a lot of effort to get an entire pantheon across to your players.

I generally find myself with 4 or 5 primary gods. And then tell my players there are other Gods, but they are comparatively very small, without much organization (ie don't expect to encounter them and if you worship them, don't expect people to know what you are talking about until you tell them and they'll likely think you're a crazy foreigner.)

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Phosphorus wrote:

Sadly, SKR's interpretation of the rules have flaws that were discussed in the thread. He wrote that he would be lobbying for change after his errors were pointed out but no changes have occurred, and it has been several years since this thread.

Very much in agreement. Its a worth an FAQ (or a charge errata) if you ask me. That is the closest thing to an official answer I've seen on the subject and I think it should be included in any thread on the subject as at least a reference point. It is a different answer than the 3.x WotC ruling as I remember it.

That said, I think SKR's answer works reasonably well mechanically and thus it is what I use at the moment.

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While this probably needs an official FAQ at some point, this has come up multiple times on the forums.

SKR post on the matter: *note he posts multiple times in the thread so reading the whole thing might be worthwhile. Feat#13

Here are some pictures he made on the subject: l

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Adam O'Dell wrote:

that takes a standard action to use though. in many ways what I want is weaker since it can only be used for one bow shot and then only once per day. needs to be swift of free action though

This is such a losing proposition. I'd but if I really wanted to put this in the hands of player, I'd go:

standard action +1,000gp. (Slightly more than the old unlimited wand because its much more convenient on on a primary weapon than on a wand)

swift action +10,000gp. (Quicken SLA, require CL+9, so I multiple the effect by new CL 10.)

free action +20,000gp. (Clearly better than a swift action, and has the potentially troublesome mechanic of stacking with itself so I double the price but would probably just deny this outright.)

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