What's the allure of playing a game in which the PC is a Mary Sue, able to effortlessly overcome every encounter? Obviously it's not and either/or proposition and most people tend to want something in between, in which characters are challenged and threatened but are able to overcome.
The commentary that follows is 100% speculation based on what's been posted to these forums by [primarily] Turin and one or two of his players:
Having read the entirety of the CoT/Kingmaker mashup it seems that Turin was expecting a similar level of player creativity/inventiveness/adaptability as in the previous game whereas his more-strict character creation requirements suggests that this game would focus more on the theme of the AP rather than having to BAMF the various monsters. On the other hand, a CR 4 encounter at an APL 1 group is APL+3 = Epic encounter, suitable for end-boss fights but probably even more challenging (nominally-speaking) given the limited feats, spells, and hp pool of first-level characters.
I haven't been playing nearly as long as Turin or his players, nor do I have the personal experience to derive any particular insight on the gameplay events of a group of people whom I've never met and that live ~2000 miles away from me - so feel free to take that with a pretty hefty grain of salt. ;)
Turin the Mad wrote:
To quote a previous CJ post (by Macharious IIRC): "E-mail, where all the real role-playing takes place".
Yup, that was me. Those exchanges are hilarious!
Turin, KGM, and any other players that show up here since I recall some posted in your CoT/Kingmaker journal, I'm very much looking forward to how this proceeds.
Wow, late July. Bummer.
Also, no Kadrilkasta? Disappointing (and, IMO, somewhat misleading) since she's on the product cover. Yes, I'm aware that there is a Huge-size Adult Blue Dragon in the "Designed for use with the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary Box", as well as the dedicated Battles "mini" for her.
The entire point of swapping Wormwood Mutiny out for Smugger's Shiv is to avoid the Wormwood; starting with Smuggler's Shiv only to have them picked up by Harrigan places the PCs in exactly the position you were running Smuggler's Shiv to avoid in the first place.
I really like Lord Fyre's suggestions; an important addendum to them is
Having Harrigan antagonistic toward the PCs later in the AP is a logical extension of Harrigan being a Chelish tool, since there is no longer the backstory of them "stealing" his prize ship out from under him and "mutiny-ing" on him.
All of the above?
Have Sheila tell them to find Natalya and the shard, and not come back until they do - IF they can get it before "another, more trustworthy" team. Natalya will still be in the city, somewhere else that they'll have to hunt down all over again. It offers the chance at redemption, while putting the pressure on to force them to work together. And, if they fail, they can be the "other" Pathfinder team.
Alternately, have Sheila fire them right off the bat. The Scarzni can find them, who Natalya will have banded together with - and this sets off the chain for them to find her and the shard all over again and go back to Sheila so you can get them back on script.
A partial short answer is that "numbers" are something easier to talk about, that can be discussed on an objective basis.
Subjective stuff such as role-playing can't be fairly debated due to the tremendous variation in individuals' feelings about what makes something "good" or "bad".... the only thing that matters there is if everyone at the table is having fun or not.
P.H. Dungeon wrote:
I noticed that Frog God games has their Slumbering Tsar AP available in both Pathfinder and Sword and Wizardry formats. You might check that out. It's got a very old school vibe that I think might be up your alley- plus you could run it with sword and wizardry if you wanted to, and then not have to deal with all the shenanigans that come up with an option filled system like Pathfinder.
Slumbering Tsar is not available in a Swords & Wizardry version. It's the exception to FFG's "available in both PF and S&W" product line rule. :)
GM Arkwright wrote:
@Wyam Marshaal- I like. Your character is a paladin so I feel obligated to ask how he would cope if some other members of the party had a more 'screw you I'm looking after number one' attitude and ignoring the poor, or maybe came from a background where they'd done some evil things in the past.
Regarding selfish characters, Wyam would take the "enlightened self-interest approach" where encouraging the character to help him and/or the [rest of the] party is in that character's best interest as well. If Wyam is able to build enough trust with this character, he would try to get them to change by showing how honestly being out to help others can be more rewarding than merely making it through another day with hopefully a few more gold in the pocket. For characters that have done evil in the past, it's no big deal to him so long as the character regrets what they did and is trying to make things right or has already done so and learned from it and is now doing the right thing.
In general, I see Wyam as being very self-aware in the sense that he's not perfect and that, as a mortal, has committed his own sins and will continue to do so despite his desire to be good. This could especially arise if his family or friends are tortured, kidnapped, etc: Wyam's as easy going as it gets until you piss him off (which will take a lot), but once you do that it's "war to the knife" which will always be a challenge for him to not succumb to and lose himself forever in. Wyam is a character who could lose the war by winning every battle, and it will take all he has - and the rest of the party as well - to prevent that.
Character Name: Wyam Marshaal
Wyam Marshaal was born into the family of a minor noble in rural Varisia. His early years living on a manorial estate put him in close contact with the peasant tenants, the children of whom were his friends and playmates. When he was big enough, his mother was able to persuade her second cousin in Korvosa to take him on as a squire. A strong boy, Wyam excelled at armsplay and, due to his country upbrining, horsemanship. In the big city, however, Wyam always felt out of place: his many happy memories of playing with the peasant children were in stark contrast to how the nobles of the big city treated the lower-born. When he reached his majority living in his uncle's House and had passed beyond further obligation to serve, Wyam requested to join the Church of Iomedae.
Far from being disappointed or upset, Wyam's request appealed to his uncle's eternal hunger for power and prestige: as a Marshaal, anything Wyam did would only increase his own standing as well. And so it did, for Wyam's skill in the training salle and lists within the Church's militant arm quickly rose. Within the Church, however, Wyam remained unhappy. While the elimination of the undead, evil wizards, demons, and devils was all well and good, the Church seemed - to Wyam - to be neglecting the welfare of those they were so busy proclaiming they protected. And so Wyam took up his own banner as a knight-errant, roaming Varisia to protect travellers from bandits, villagers from goblins, and doing what he could to aid the common folk of the land. He eventually found himself in the town of Sandpoint, taking up with a small group of like-minded adventurers and serving with them to shield and serve the townsfolk.
Wyam is cheerful, outgoing, well-mannered, and considerate of others. He extends the benefit of the doubt to all, and cares for the plight of the poor more than many of the "enlightened" born of higher stations. To those that betray his trust or who seek to harm his friends or family, he is a tireless, implacable foe that will unrelentingly harry an enemy into submission.
Character Sheet Draft:
Init +0, Per +2
Stats: Str 16+2, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 16
Class Features: Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day, Challenge 1/day, Mount, Order, Tactician
Equipment: Heavy steel shield (20gp), lance (10gp), dagger (2gp), longsword (15gp), morningstar (8gp), shortbow (30gp), half-plate Armor (600gp)
Long-term PbP Experience (3 months+): I'm currently active in 8 other games, all of which have been running for longer than three months. One game is over 3000 posts with another closing in close behind it. I was recruited as replacements in both of these games. Two games require daily participation, and two more nearly-daily, with the other four a little more slower-paced. Obviously, I am able to maintain this rate of posting.
Writing Sample: As I'm active with 8 different games, I think there's plenty of material to demonstrate the quality of my writing 'in situ' rather than contriving an artificial situation.
Extras: I can and do post daily (if not several times a day).
Lonely Warrior: make the barrow Unhallow-ed with the silence effect, and add in some skeletal champions (Warrior was entombed with his bodyguards). If you're feeling extra-mean, make them Wraiths or - even worse - Dread Wraiths. PRD Wraith/Dread Wraith. I'd suggest you could use a Banshee instead, but at CR 13 alone I suspect it would be too much for a APL 8/9/10 party. You could use Greater Shadows, though.
Forest Drake: a weaker [dragon-kind] of the opposite sex as a mate is usually suggested on the Advice and General Discussion for making [dragon-kind] encounters more challenging, as is making the most of environmental conditions. I'll have to read up on the encounter and think about it some more before offering up anything more specific.
Brother Faust the Elder wrote:
So, what's next? Since Horror on the Orient Express seems to have resulted in the return of the Great Old Ones (if my use of the Mythos is correct), does that mean Turin returns to the land of Golarion for Carrion Crown? Is KGM forcibly retired from RPGs entirely?
Woe is us readers!
It won't be out for a while yet, but you may want to check out Ultimate Campaign when it comes out next spring as it's supposed to take a lot of the feedback on kingdom creation/maintenance and mass combat and refine them from what's published in the original AP. Or get Book of the River Nations right now.
How's it going, everyone? We still sticking in the campaign? I feel like we could get it started up again if we all could sign in and post. If we weren't in combat, we could have some RP banter posts.
Still here, just not much to say. Gotta admit, though, I've pretty much lost interest in this game at this point.
My opinion is to have her go to Oleg's and start making trouble: the PC's came to her house, killed her pets - she'll be out for revenge. As a fey, I don't see her planning and organizing very much, but I think some kind of "Dancing Lady's Parlor" exclusive, underground club could take root in the biggest settlement and as she attracts more and more men to her side it could start to cause serious Unrest. If you haven't introduced Grigori yet, this could be an interesting "alternative" method of fomenting internal dissent.
Was able to get an hour in for the first time since last week and blew through the end of Act 2 Inferno. I got killed by Belial twice because I'd gotten overconfident in handling elite packs with 36K Damage... both times were effectively one-hit kills. My third attempt I played a bit more cautiously, and he went down with little difficulty in.
I found a sword that was a damage upgrade, mostly because it had a socket to put a big, fat emerald in to take advantage of my 40% crit rate. Also found a huge upgrade for my Templar companion - his Damage doubled!
Chuck Wright wrote:
Has the hosted PDF version been updated for corrections? I re-downloaded on November 7, and the Pathfinder-version bookmark issue was still present.
That Kind Of Orc wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Patience, young grasshopper ...
What he means is that most GMs are waiting to have all six volumes of the AP before starting to run it: I've only received the first three, though I think the fourth has or will be shipping very shortly.
Aelryinth, that would be absolutely fantastic!
KestlerGunner was kind enough to share gloves and a hat with my wizard on Friday night (local time for me), and between them and that new source mentioned last week that I'd won off the AH (not nearly as good as what you found) my Damage went from 21K to about 38K.
I have serious reservations about my health: 25K. Is that acceptable as a wizard, or should I just play more cautiously until I can get some all-around upgrades of my armor pieces?
Mach, I have some one hand wands or weapons I'm happy to give away to you. I might have a spare source, but it is quite easy to pick up a good one on the AH for a million or less (i.e. a day's killing). If you need one, look me up.
Thanks, Aelryinth, I'll probably do that at some point in this weekend.
I had a bid on an offhand that finished about 2am local time, so I don't know if I got it or not - will have to wait til I get home from work in 9 hours. I looked at upgrading my weapon, but getting a 1000 dps one-hand from the auction hall is beyond my current gold reserves... I may consider doing a gold-farming run or two of Act 3 Hell on a higher MP setting (probably not 10, though).
I played for about an hour last night before getting too tired to continue. I'm becoming more accustomed to the CM/WW build now, though I've yet to master its particular play-style. Got my 5 NV stacks fairly easily, but two separate elite packs a bit later on with more challenging combinations of abilities killed me several times each... inevitable with 28K hp.
My wizard (link), for which the character info doesn't seem to be updating... maybe after a few hours it'll take. I put a ruby in my helm after dropping the amethyst from pre-nerf/Paragon-level Inferno, and the I'm using the CM/WW build instead of whatever it's showing for my skills right now.
Macharius, if you are able to build Critical Mass Wizard, other players will basically worship you and your ability to permafreeze the uber bosses. There were a lot of changes to how crowd control works that really buffed the wizards freezing abilities.
Checked out your link, but ended up going to the Blizzard forums and looked at the build of some guy who'd posted a talent-build DPS comparison as I figured he knew what he was talking about so his active skills would be optimized. Whirlwinds that stay in place, Critical Mass, Frost Aura, Diamond Skin, etc. with Teleport on RMB. Tried it out, it seemed OK but it's very counter-intuitive to my usual play-style so there were some adjustment issues. I'm still in Act 2 Inferno, and looking for Kulle's body parts (Aelrynn, I know you like farming that part of the Act) so I figure, too, that the build comes into its own a lot more in dense mob packs instead of just a few weak monsters all by themselves or in small clumps.
My DPS is 21-22K according to my character sheet, so I clearly don't have particularly good gear. I purchased almost all of it on the gold auction hall for 5-10K each just to try and survive Inferno back before all the nerfs (Resist All is about 750) though I did find my current weapon (right after spending 20K to buy one that turned out to be not as good... go figure).
Oh, yeah: I'm still Paragon level 1. Lawlz?
The Minnesota measure on the ballot was for an Amendment to the state's Constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman. While the measure failed, same-sex marriage remains illegal here.
The interesting thing about this is that the talking heads on TV are saying that this is the first time such an Amendment has failed to pass, breaking a 32-state "yes" streak.
I played last night for the first time in probably three months. Inferno Act 2 has been a complete cakewalk with the current 1.05 version, compared to my experience with 1.03.
What are people's experience/suggestions for a Wizard in Inferno? It seems like most of you are all playing Demon Hunters and Monks.
My current skills are:
LMB: Shock Pulse, Piercing Orb
I basically stand as far back as possible and open with Blizzard and then the Hydra and just hold down LMB for continuous Piercing Orbs. In solo play, I've been getting a number of "X killed with one hit" and "Y enemies killed" callouts and haven't been particularly threatened except by Waller and/or Frozen elite packs.
Mithril Comfort Medium armor costs 9000+ gp. Following standard equipment guidelines, that's 25% of WBL so we can expect a character to come into such armor no sooner than level 8, and more likely 9. Keeping in mind that most games start at level 1, what is this monk supposed to do for the first 8 levels of the game?