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Vedavrex Misraria

Lune's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 2,362 posts. No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 5 Pathfinder Society characters.


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You did see their Int scores, right?

...brutally torn apart piece by piece until I cry myself to sleep...

You've come to the right place. >:)

Do continue...

Oh yeah... also there is the Red Mantis (crimson) Assassin. Don't forget that one...

Considered Monstrous Mount and the follow up feat?

Lemme know what you think of this build:


Str 16
Dex 14
Con 15+2
Int 8
Wis 10+2
Cha 8-2

Fighter levels are Unarmed Fighter
Barbarian levels are Invunlerable Rager

Fighter 1
Improved Unarmed Strike (bonus), Crane Style (bonus), Endurance (1st)
Barbarian 1
Fast Movement, Rage, Invulnerability
Barbarian 2
Rager Power: Animal Fury, DR 1/-, Die Hard (3rd)
Fighter 2
Harsh Training, Stalwart (bonus)
Barbarian 3
Extreme Endurance: Cold, Combat Reflexes (5th)
Barbarian 4
Rage Power: Reckless Abandon, DR 2/-
Barbarian 5
Power Attack (7th)
Barbarian 6
Rage Power: Dragon Totem, DR 3/-, Cold Resistance: 1
Barbarian 7
Steel Soul (9th)
Barbarian 8
Rage Power: Dragon Totem Resilience, DR 4/-
Barbarian 9
Greater Rage, Cold Resistance: 2, Improved Stalwart (11th)
Barbarian 10
Rage Power: Dragon Totem Wings, DR 5/-
Barbarian 11
Extra Rage Power: Guarded Life (13th)
Barbarian 12
Rage Power: Lesser Draconic Blood, DR 6/-, Cold Resistance: 3
Barbarian 13
Extra Rage Power: Increased Damage Reduction (15th)
Barbarian 14
Indomitable Will, Rage Power: Draconic Blood, DR 7/-
Barbarian 15
Cold Resistance: 4, Extra Rage Power: Increased Damage Reduction (17th)
Barbarian 16
Rage Power: Greater Beast Totem, DR 8/-
Barbarian 17
Tireless Rage, Rage Power: Greater Draconic Blood (19th)
Barbarian 18
Rage Power: Increased Damage Reduction, DR 9/-, Cold Resistance: 5

Required gear:
Bill Polearm as his weapon (+1 Shield bonus to AC when Fighting Defensively)
Headband of Havoc
Helm of Fearsome Mien

I'm thinking that the excuses for the following abilities will be due to several dragon lineages within his bloodlines:
Extreme Endurance – Silver Dragon (cold)
Dragon Totem – Red (fire)
Drconic Blood – Blue (lighting)

Things that I regret about this build:
1. Not being able to get Endurance and Diehard as bonus feats. I thought about going for a level of unbreakable fighter but that would make me have to spend a feat on Improved Unarmed Strike to take Crane Style. So it is two feats either way. And I want Crane Style at least before Stalwart so I can use it to fight defensively for a larger bonus.
2. No Heavy Armor Proficiency. If I went with Unbreakable Fighter I would get Heavy Armor Proficiency and that is over and above what Unarmed Fighter gives. The only problem then is that I have to get Dodge AND Improved Unarmed Strike before taking Crane Style.
3. Not being able to fit Power Attack in sooner. I could swap it for Combat Reflexes but I feel like I will get more mileage out of that.
4. Not being able to fit in Superstitious or Toughness. I just have too many feats that are more important. I suppose I could swap out a later feat like one of the Increased Damage Reductions for Superstitious but by then (if I were ever to make it that far with this build) it likely wouldn't matter any longer. Also, I took Steel Soul over Superstitious because I feel it is a better feat. It doesn't scale but it allows you to still receive beneficial spells and effects during Rage.
5. Having to depend on a Helm of Fearsome Mien to get Intimidating Glare to power my Dragon Totem feats. Ugh... just too feat starved.

I would love to fix any of those. No Heavy Armor is I think the biggest issue here. It is a difference of 3AC at all levels. Since the build is going with a two handed weapon that is hard to give up.

Have you considered taking Combat Patrol? With reach, Bodyguard, Helpful, Benevolent armor enhancement and the rest of the concept of your build it seems like a perfect fit.

If you do end up doing this and also decide to take a Cavalier level (I wouldn't actually recommend doing so) then I would look towards the Honor Guard and Dragon Order. If you wanted to go deep into this concept then a single level of Mouser Swashbuckler and The Monkey Style feats are great but that seems a bit too feat intensive for your build. Also you wouldn't be able to get Monkey Shine online until far too late.

Markov Spiked Chain: Well, I was going to tell you that you were silly because I am going with a mounted build. However... I think you may have stumbled upon brilliance. I can make my Triceratops mount the target of my Bladed Dash. lol

Oh wait, no I can't. Its not on the Hunter list and that is the list I have to use as that is the class that grants me the Animal Companion. Piss. Ah well. At least the mount will still be able to deliver me to melee.

Were you asking about Dirge of Doom? It is just like any other performance. It uses whatever action they do determined by your level. Standard to start, Move Action at 7th, Swift at 13th.

Yeah, I actually do want to get in on the action. I would probably benefit from advice on how to get buffs up quick and get into the action ASAP.

Pounce: Basically if you take 2 classes that have the same BAB you keep that BAB all the way through. So, yes if I took a single level in a full BAB class.

Cavall: Hm... you know I don't actually know. It had been suggested to me by someone else in another thread actually.

I dunno, though. I think if I wanted to focus on in combat healing then I would just go with Skald's Vigor type build.

Cavall: I was thinking of nabbing Poet's cloak to get Lesser Celestial Totem and only wear it out of combat when healing is done.

Gaming Ranger: It does not set my BAB back. Read my first post where I said, "Also, the DM has agreed to allow me to use fractional BAB so I keep 3/4 BAB through the whole career."

I'm not so hot on the Mad Dog. It doesn't seem like it brings anything more than the Hunter does.

Also, while you may not like the idea of having an animal companion for a build like this I do. And it is my build and I am here asking for advice on it. Please do not move my goal posts and give advice on something other than what I am shooting for. It is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

That being said, you may have a point on the Charisma. *nod*

Produce Flame + Snap Shot would allow you to AoO with a ranged touch spell. I think there are a couple other spells like it but I can't remember them now.

Still not terribly effective and with Produce Flame you could just use it as a touch spell rather than ranged touch so it doesn't really matter. Well, at least until you get the other Snap Shot feats. But man, you are digging deep at that point for a caster.

I have. I want it. I just want my other feats more. :( Plus, there is always the Harmonizing armor. Its expensive but it is a solution I can throw money at to fix. I also considered Community Minded trait but same problem there, I wanted the other traits more.

I am hoping that my GM might allow me to enchant some magic instruments with Exquisite Accompaniment or something.

LazarX: You are wrong. My last post explained why.

Ah. Well, there is always Saving Finale to use for a 3rd save to be given. I wonder if it will work in conjunction with Exquisite Accompaniment.

I am a bit ashamed to say that I have never played a Bard. Prior to Pathfinder I have always been of the opinion that Bards are wusses. Not only do I like the Pathfinder Bard but I like the Skald concept even more. He is so... METAL! ;) That being said, I think I am going to be looking mostly at buff spells and coming online to be effective in combat ASAP. Any suggestions along those lines?

Exquisite Accompaniment seems like a great option as it allows me to cast another buff spell the next turn. But on further contemplation it seems like a trap as I would have to start performance first turn, cast Exquisite Accompaniment second turn and then cast whatever my second buff was going to be third turn. The combat is likely mostly over by then. It gets better when I can start a performance as a move action. But then again... I could be doing something else with that standard action than to cast Exquisite Accompaniment.

I dunno what to think other than I already know that my hangups here are going to be based around action economy, buff duration and decisions based on trying to remedy those.

People seem to think that for some reason that sneak attack and martial are mutually exclusive. They are not. As Fruian Thistlefoot pointed out Slayer fits the bill rather nicely here. That is also the chassis I would recommend. I would only go 6 levels in, though, before jumping into Horizon Walker. Then I would go Shadowdancer for the rest of the character's career.

Throw in Fetchling as the race for more Dim Doors. Get a Cape of the Montebank. Most DMs will allow Shadowdancer's ability to use the Dimensional line of feats with (while this isn't RAW it has the support of the original Designer and at least one Developer).

And look what you got there. It meets every one of the OP's requests. It comes online early: at 9th level. This is SOONER than a Magus gets it and the Horizon Walker can use it more often. You get Sneak Attack without giving up a full BAB Martial character.

In fact, the only class which gets it sooner is the Synthesist Summoner. That class is such a poorly written stinking pile of trash most DMs don't even allow it at their table and PFS bans it outright. It has more errata and FAQ than all other classes combined. It getting early entry into that feat chain is probably another good reason to disallow the class. ...and if it isn't clear, I strongly dislike the Synthesist.

I also want to strongly agree with Fruian again that this is a class ability that was MEANT to come on later in the game as it is a very powerful ability. That being said the options outlined above can give you the feeling of the powerful character you want him to become all the way up until you can do what you want to do. Slayer is a strong class and it meets what you want out of your character.

Martial = full BAB class. Every suggestion here outside of mine and a couple from CBDunkerson are not what the OP is asking for.

G!$&*#n stealth nerfs! Well guess I'm glad I didn't take it yet.

He did say Martial in the title of the thread...

I did and it is a good one. However, what I had originally wanted to go for was Eater of Magic + Battlecry to give everyone 3 chances to save. And with bonuses from Superstitious it should make those saves easy to make. Our party has healing pretty well covered and are fairly resilient so it shouldn't be a problem often to have Superstitious up during combat.

Horizon Walker 3 levels then the rest into Shadowdancer.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

TomG: Just because you say that it is NOT a problem doesn't mean that it isn't.

It is something that needs clarity. My proof is 123 FAQ requests on this thread alone as well as all of the requests on all of the other threads on this same issue. Also for all the PFS GMs (and for that matter home GMs) who rule differently than the way you believe that it works due to a lapse in the wording of the rules.

What is your proof that it is not a problem? It seems that you are in the minority here so I think you have the burden of proof (even though I gave mine).


So I started posting about this here a while ago. Well, now I am actually going to get to play it.

So far our party make up is this:

My son is playing a Pokemon Trainer (Preservationist Alchemist) going for summoning and healing focus. He will be getting healing bombs, implant bombs, delayed bombs and be using them to detonate inside people during combat for no action during emergencies. He will also be summoning and handing out summons (via infusion) for people to use his Pokemon. He is actually playing a somewhat delusional kid who thinks that adventuring is just a game. He is also going for the Simulacrum Discoveries so he can "save his game". Funny concept right? ;) Effective too. I think he is going to enjoy it.

Another is going for a Bloodrager build focused on hitting things really hard with a Greatsword. He also is going with a level of Unbreakable Fighter (at first level) and already has Diehard and Fast Healer. He is going for a Spelleater and trying to keep his regen up. He also is going to go for Fire God's Blessing and trying to get his regen up every round with a flaming weapon.

Another character is going with a Ranger/Paladin and likely going into the Celestial Knight PrC. He is going Throwing Axe and Shield and taking Weapon and Shield Combat Style for Ranger. Basically, though, he wants to be an undead and demon slayer.

And that leaves me. I figured we had healing covered pretty well. We needed an arcane caster and someone who brought some casting versatility to the table. It also wouldn't hurt to have a skill monkey and party face. And with the summoning happening it wouldn't hurt to give the party buffs either.

So I decided to play a build I have had sitting around for a while. Please tell me what you think.

The build:


25pt buy
Alternate Racial Traits:
Sacred Tatoo
Shaman's Apprentice

Str 15
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 9
Wis 12
Cha 15+2

Hunter 1
Animal Companion, Animal Focus, Nature Training, Orisons, Wild Empathy, Combat Reflexes (1st)
Skald 1
Bardic Knowledge, Cantrips, Inspired Rage +1 (+2 Str/Con), Raging Song, Extra Performance (bonus)
Skald 2
Versatile Performance, Well Versed, Flagbearer (3rd)
Skald 3
Rage Power: Superstition, Song of Marching
Skald 4
Inspired Rage +2, Uncanny Dodge, Boon Companion (5th)
Skald 5
Spell Kenning 1/day
Skald 6
Rage Power: Witch Hunter, Song of Strength, Beast Rider (7th)
Skald 7
Lore Master 1/day, Versatile Performance
Skald 8
Improved Uncanny Dodge, Inspired Rage +3 (+4 Str/Con), Amplified Rage (9th)
Skald 9
Rage Power: Eater of Magic, DR 1/-
Skald 10
Dirge of Doom, Power Attack (11th)
Hunter 2
Precise Companion (Outflank), Track

Fate's Favored
Blackthorn Rancher

Gear plans:
Circlet of Persuasion / Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
Belt of Physical Perfection (Str/Dex)
Ring of Tactical Precision 11k
+1 Glamoured Harmonizing Rallying Jousting Spell Storing Mithral Agile Breastplate
+1 Arrow Catching Arrow Deflection Mithral Buckler
+2 Furious Courageous Mithral Undine Weaponshaft Longspear (Get +1 Furious ASAP, Courageous got nerfed)
Banner of Ancient Kings 18k
Robe of the Resplendent Thespian 75k
Quick Runner's Shirt / Unfettered Shirt
Lenses of Detection
Sandals of Quick Reaction
Gloves of Arrow Snaring / Deliquescent Gloves / Glove of Storing
Headband of Alluring Charisma
Amulet of Natural Armor
Cloak of Fangs / Minor Cloak of Displacement
Longarm Bracers / Arrowmaster's Bracers
Stone of Good Luck
Turquoise Sphere
Pale Green Prism

The Animal Companion is a Triceratops named Dozer.

Animal Companion gear: Armor, belt (saddle), chest, eyes, headband, neck, shoulders, wrist
Minotaur Belt
Cloak of Resistance

Animal Companion Feats:
Toughness (1st)
Light Armor Proficiency (1st)
Extra Item Slot: Ring (5th)
Improved Natural Attack (7th)

What do you think? Boon Companion and Beast Rider get the AC up to 7th level for his advancement. I only planned the build out until 12th level as it was originally meant for PFS play. It will probably work better here. I don't much care for Skald after 10th level. I probably would go back to Hunter and continue leveling that so the AC wouldn't continue to fall behind.

Also, the DM has agreed to allow me to use fractional BAB so I keep 3/4 BAB through the whole career. He also agreed to allow me to still take Extra Performance rather than Scribe Scroll. This is mostly because he is using an alternate system for magic item creation where basically everyone has Master Craftsmen. Its in a book I haven't read but it sounded interesting so I'm willing to give it a try. We are also using an alternate alignment system where we pick aspects of our character's nature rather than alignments.

I wanted to work in Battle Cry as well for the bonus reroll on saves but Eater of Magic does that pretty well. Flagbearer + Banner of Ancient Kings is pretty core to the concept. Amplified Rage will be great with the mount too. It is too bad that they nerfed Courageous. :(


Don't mind me. I'm just looking to start a betting pool for the first person to call another person a jerk. ;)

What happens if a mind blade shield is sundered as a weapon? Is it both broken as a weapon and broken as a shield? Can a shield even be broke separately? What if is a spiked shield? Can you just break the spikes? Can you have a mind blade spiked shield? Can just the mind blade shield spikes be sundered?

*joins the peanut gallery and brings his own popcorn*

Hell, your right. It wont work for a Ranger.

Nature Fang is missing that clause, however. Actually, so is Slayer for that matter.

I know when they get their feats. I was numbering them in order, not what levels it would get them at. Think of that list as more of a priority list.

Yes. Stoneplate. Very Dwarfy.

Ok. Just finished out the Ranger build.


Ranger 1
Hunter's Bond: Animal Companion, Favored Enemy: Undead, Improved Shield Bash (1st)
Fighter 1
Dirty Fighting (bonus)
Ranger 2
Two Weapon Fighting (bonus), Combat Expertise (3rd)
Ranger 3
Endurance (bonus), Favored Terrain: Underground
Ranger 4
Stalwart (5th)
Ranger 5
Favored Enemy: Construct
Ranger 6
Shield Master (bonus), Boon Companion (7th)
Fighter 2
Diehard (bonus)
Ranger 7
Woodland Stride, Steel Soul (7th)
Ranger 8
Swift Tracker, Favored Terrain: Mountain
Ranger 9
Evasion, Improved Stalwart (11th)
Ranger 10
Favored Enemy: Dragon, Saving Shield (bonus)
Ranger 11
Quarry, Toughness (13th)
Ranger 12
Ranger 13
Favored Terrain: Cold, Extra Traits (15th)
Ranger 14
Shield Focus (bonus)
Ranger 15
Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider, Retrain Saving Shield for Mounted Combat and take Mounted Shield (17th)
Ranger 16
Improved Evasion
Ranger 17
Hide in Plain Sight, Double Slice (19th)
Ranger 18
Favored Terrain: Urban, Greater Shield Focus (bonus)

That comes out with 17 feats. The Druid has 18. Well, actually more potentially but several of those are being taken as various other Slayer Talents instead. The Ranger has some pimp class abilities that it gets as well, though. The point is that they are fairly even between class abilities and feats.

The basic difference between the two builds is going to be Ranger being full BAB and boosting Stalwart higher and Druid getting full caster progression. I honestly don't know which I would like more.

The other build I was considering started something like this... and I never really finished it:


Ranger 1
Hunter's Bond: Animal Companion, Favored Enemy: Undead, Improved Shield Bash (1st)
Fighter 1
Dirty Fighting (bonus)
Ranger 2
Two Weapon Fighting (bonus), Combat Expertise (3rd)
Ranger 3
Endurance (bonus), Favored Terrain (Underground)
Ranger 4
Stalwart (5th)
Ranger 5
Favored Enemy: Construct
Ranger 6
Shield Master (bonus), Boon Companion (7th)
Fighter 2
Diehard (bonus)
Ranger 7

I realized around then the ways that the builds would differ. I would lose out on a ton of feats granted by Nature Fang. I would also lose out on the near full caster progression. The soul upside seems to be that due to full BAB Stalwart would be able to dish out higher bonuses and I could get Improved Stalwart faster. I could get Improved Stalwart at 11th level and by 12th I would be rocking a pretty solid DR 8/-. That is pretty solid.

I would feel a bit guilty doing this, however, as my DM said that he would let Ranger take any type of Animal Companion rather than their limited list without having to take Beastmaster. I would feel a bit dirty doing that though as he would basically be allowing me to cheat.

Planning a character for an upcoming game (Starting tomorrow! So excited!). This is one of the concepts that I am considering. I think I am going to save my pick for last pick and fill in so this may not come to fruition.


Str: 17
Dex: 9
Con: 15+2
Int: 8
Wis: 13+2
Cha: 10-2

Alternate Racial Traits:
Giant Hunter

Druid levels are all Nature Fang
Fighter levels are Unbreakable

Druid 1
Studied Target, Orisons, Toughness (1st)
Fighter 1
Endurance (bonus), Diehard (bonus)
Druid 2
Improved Shield Bash (3rd)
Druid 3
Trackless Step
Druid 4
Sneak Attack +1d6, Slayer Talent: Two Weapon Fighting, Stalwart (5th)
Druid 5

Druid 6
Slayer Talent: Shield Master, Dirty Fighting (7th)
Fighter 2
Unflinching, Combat Expertise (bonus)
Druid 7
Boon Companion (9th)
Druid 8
Slayer Talent: Combat Trick: Saving Shield
Druid 9
Swift Studied Target, Steel Soul (11th)
Druid 10
Slayer Talent: Bashing Finish
Druid 11
Pack Flanking (13th)
Druid 12
Slayer Talent: Weapon Training: Waraxe
Druid 13
A Thousand Faces, Improved Stalwart (15th)
Druid 14
Slayer Talent: Terrain Mastery
Druid 15
Timeless Body, Additional Traits (17th)
Druid 16
Slayer Talent: Terrain Mastery
Druid 17
Shield Focus (19th)
Druid 18
Slayer Talent: Terrain Mastery

Traits that I am considering:
Defender of the Society (combat)
Ruthless (race)
Blackthorn Rancher (region)
Glory of Old (region) ← Not really understanding why this is region feat and not a race feat...
Magical Knack (magic)
Fate's Favored (faith)
Bestial Wrath (religion)

Going with the Snapping Turtle Animal Companion.
Animal Companion Feats:
Prior to Int Headband: Weapon Focus: Bite, Toughness
After Int Headband:
Dirty Fighting 1
Toughness 2
Improved Grapple 3
Power Attack 4
Greater Grapple 5
Vital Strike 6
Furious Focus 7
Improved Critical 8

The general idea here is to be a tank with a tank. One thing I am let down by is the low BAB and not being able to boost up that DR with Combat Expertise more. I honestly don't think I will be lagging behind in my to hit. With a high Str and Druid buffs it should keep me competitive.

What I do like is... well, everything else. I didn't actually want to go wild shapy with my build. The original concept was for a Beastmaster Ranger but they give up their 6th level bonus feat and I can't have that because Shield Master is the best feat ever. Dirty Fighting is a life saver for this build because it lets me sneak into Combat Expertise without requiring me to get a 13 Int. Nature Fang is a sweet archetype as I will basically be getting a feat every level. That is great for me because I enjoy feat heavy builds.

It is still full caster progression, too. I should be able to put a point into Str at 4th, Con at 8th and Wis at 12th. That Wis will be just in time to gain me access to 6th level spells. I wouldn't even have to buy a Wis headband until 14th level and that should last me the rest of my character's career if we even end up playing for that long.

7th level is where things really come together. By that time I will have 3rd level spells, a Large sized Snapping Turtle Animal Companion, Shield Master will be online and I will have Stalwart (Combat Expertise comes online at 8th). I should have an AC of around 29 (10 -1 Dex, +11 Armor (+2 Armor), +5 Shield (+3 Shield), +3 Natural, +1 Deflection), DR 2/- by 8th level with Combat Expertise going, 75HP and attacks somewhere around +6 1d10+5 for Waraxe and +8 1d6+8 for Heavy Shield.

The turtle around that same level should have AC 34 (10 +12 (base natural), +4 (level natural), +3 (barkskin) +5 Armor (mithral chain)), 48HP (Kinda low) and attack of +8 1d8+6 plus Grab at +11.

The general combat idea will be to buff up and charge into battle on his turtle. Let the turtle start grappling and lay on the pain. I'll probably dismount after engaging in combat just to spread out the threatened zones.

I would love a way to boost Stalwart further and have greater DR but I can't think of any way to do that since the feat pretty much calls out the fact that it doesn't stack with anything except class abilities. I had also thought about going with the Animal Domain and taking the Fur Subdomain. The downfall is that it would leave my turtle a level behind and make it sucky until 7th level. The upside is the bonus spells some of which are out of class. Anyone else think it is weird that Druids don't get the Beast Shape spells on their spell list? Yeah, me too.

Anyone have any advice or ideas to lend? I haven't really considered gear aside from the obvious and that I have to get a headband for that dumbass turtle asap.

nicholas storm: While I agree that is the way that it should work it is NOT spelled out in the rules. There are PFS GMs that do not rule that way due to this.

The cost would not go up for them to print Large (tall) next to the ones that are tall. Or just print that they have reach. Same page count. No more space is taken up. It is one single word.

Or better yet. Just make a declaration in a FAQ stating that if the Bestiary entry says it is (tall) then the Animal Companion version of that creature is also small.

Post the rule, Axebeak Sanctuary Society.

No. I am speaking (typing) very clearly.

Post the rule that says how you determine if your Animal Companion has reach or not.

I also just found this link.

While still not a printed rule (which you will not find because it doesn't exist despite what Axebeak Sanctuary Society wants you to believe) that is Mike Brock basically saying that they get reach.

Axebeak Sanctuary Society wrote:
It is true, because those rules are for all creatures in Pathfinder. And they're in the Core Rulebook, not some obscure splatbook. We don't have the choice to ignore them.

That is 100% completely untrue.

Nowhere does it say that you use the stat block in the Bestiary for anything for Animal Companions. And if you believe this so vigorously then I challenge you to post that rule.

You say that it is explained in the CRB. Where? Post the rule.

LazarX wrote:
Lune wrote:
LazarX: Not all large creatures with only a bite have reach. See Dire Wolf as an example.
Which is a quadraped which typically does not gain reach by being large. The universal size rules give you these guidelines in building the monster, not writing up it's Bestiary entry.

What you said was, "As a large creature it has the standard 10 foot reach with it's bite. It has no other attacks."

That strongly amplies that large creatures with bite have reach.

I was pointing out that this is not true. Being Large does not innately provide reach. Being Large and having a Bite attack does not innately provide reach.

The two things that typically provide reach for critters is being Large (tall) and/or having a long appendage that you attack with. Not just "Large" or "Bite".

I know you know this so I'm not really correcting you for the point of correcting you. I'm doing it so that onlookers don't get confused thinking that all things that are Large and have a Bite attack should have reach.

Axebeak: I am not condescending to you. I am stating that what you are saying is not the truth. It was pointed out in the previous thread as well. You are lieing.



We know a Horse has 5ft reach because it's a Large (Long) creature, and we know an Axebeak has 10ft reach because it's a Large (Tall) creature.

This is explained in the Core Rulebook, with examples given in the Bestiary. not true when referring to animal companions (the topic of this thread). Nowhere does it say this in the rules. Please do not sully this thread further with mistruths about rules that you say are printed but are not. We are on the same side on this discussion. We do not need to lie to prove a point.

This is what you want it to say. This is the way that I believes that it works. But if it said this in the rules anywhere then this thread (and the several before it) would not exist.

Jayder22: I totally agree with your assessment.

LazarX: Not all large creatures with only a bite have reach. See Dire Wolf as an example.

Axebeak Sanctuary Society: That is not true. Nowhere in Animal Companions does it say to use the features given in the Bestiary. That is, in fact, the entire basis of this thread. I recommend reading the previous thread (linked above) to see the arguments of people who do not believe that you default creatures to their Bestiary entry. While that does seem like the logical thing to do not everyone agrees.

As it was questioned that is why I wanted to see if there was anything in print from the Devs showing how they interpret it. Luckily there is. As Jayder22 posted an example of Developer interpretation we can clearly see that it is the Devs' belief that things that are Large (tall) in the Bestiary keep this when they become Animal Companions.

Thank you, by the way, Jayder22. :)

Wow. Phone posting fail. Stupid auto correct.

That should be "there is a well-known" and "intentional" rather than "international".

Someone has to have this scenario. Anyone? Bueller?

Deathy! :)

Yeah... wish I could have provided a more complete answer but I am still looking for one myself. Hit FAQ. It is the only way us lowly players can get the attention of the tabletop gods. That and certain sacrificial rites.

It is still the only situation (feat or not) that references penache + penache.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

This topic had been discussed previously in another thread.

It has been brought to my attention that the is a well-known PFS scenario that has the end boss riding an Axebeak.

spoiler alert:
This is the same scenario that grants a boon to allow Cavaliers to get an Axebeak for a mount.

I don't know the name of the scenario but it had a very Seven Samurai feel.
I was told this Axebeak is listed as having reach. Can anyone confirm this? Perhaps even post it's stat block?

If true then this establishes precedent for international reach on animal companions that should be Large (tall).

Shroudb: You said, "You keep posting that double panache should be a thing without posting a single rule that supports that."

Are you purposely ignoring the example of Amateur Swashbuckler even though it has been stated an quoted several times? That is the only thing anywhere that references penache + penache.

This isn't a case of "if something doesn't say it can be done, then it can't."

It is more, "these two different class abilities exist and both use a penache pool to function, how do the interact?"

There are no rules that explicitly state how they interact. In the absence of any rule it makes the most sence to use the only thing that does reference penache + penache: Amateur Gunslinger.

Also, I was not suggesting that Cha should apply twice.

Also a kata master and mouser for example have different deeds so them being tracked separately does make sense.

Because there is no rule for what happens with penache + penache, any judgement of what should happen is pure speculation.

To me it makes the most sence to use the only thing that does reference penache + penache: Amateur Gunslinger.

Also, what about taking the Extra Slayer Talent feat? Would that allow me to pick another Style?

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