Luna eladrin's page

I would let your players do it, since then you have an excellent reason to introduce extra savage creature encounters to the Isle of Dread, perhaps even a minor attack on Farshore if you want.

The knowledge checks are definitely a good idea, one that I use often. How does one, however, limit the amount of information a character who succeeded his knowledge check share with his allies? For instance, if a bard who successfully "Knowledges" (I'm using it as a verb now, sorry) some obscure monster, as DM, I'd say, OK, you know such and such about the monster (hit die, weaknesses, etc.). Do you limit the bard to only one sentence (as a free action) to divulge one or maybe two pieces of information to the rest of the party? This would also mean that the DM would have to secretly divulge the information about said monster to the bard player.

This is something my PCs have decided to solve themselves: when it is the character's turn the character shouts something in his free action. E.g. "Use blunt weapons!" I have never introduced this as a rule, it is just something they have come up with on their own. It is nice to see how creative they are in inventing short comments to warn the others.

The players try and play dumb about things their character shouldn't know. But its tough to expect a character to put himself in a bad situation knowingly. I recall killing a vampire, well I should say staking one. I never killed it, I the player knew full well I needed to cut the head off and fill the mouth with holy wafers but the character had no such information. So he staked it and left, robbing the place as he went.

In this case I would have given the character a knowledge check with a reasonable DC, especially if he was a cleric or paladin. He could then act on the information.

The way I deal with metagaming is more or less the same as KaeYoss deals with it. I do not have a problem with adventurers (especially when they are high level) knowing that trolls regenerate and can be beaten by fire. What I do have problems with, is incidents like the following (which actually happened in my campaign):

1) A player who is constantly letting his character roll for knowledge (history) checks in order to know things that the player knows from a previous campaign, but that the character could not possibly know. The events from the previous campaign occured more than 150 years before the current campaign, and these events are largely secret and hushed up, and certainly not official history. Moreover the new character comes from a totally different country and culture than the country in which the events occured.

2) A player saying things like: "There is obviously a trap there. There always is a trap in such and such a location, because it is a published adventure."

3) Players meddling so much with other (especially more inexperienced) players that combat slows down to a crawl.

These situations I solve with more or less strict rules about not interfering with other characters during combat, and with introducing traps, events etc. in the adventures that are just a little different than the players expect.

I have made a table with all the NPC attitudes, which I check and correct after every session. Needless to say, NPC attitudes are worsening (some downright hostile).

It sounds like you have a similar situation. Superstition also plays a role in both cases.

My PCs not only left for shore and came back with loot, but every time they left for shore, the NPC who had accompanied them, had died or disappeared. Moreover the captain has a servant who is seriously underpaid and treated unfriendly. There are reasons for this, but the crew does not know them, and this is what they see.

PCs have been acting downright mysterious, often going off in order to consult among themselves, or with one NPC.

I am thinking of letting the PCs make a diplomacy check against the ring leader of the possible mutiny at the moment when the next stressful situation occurs, and then roll with the results.
They also have a "mole" in the crew, a person whom they think works for them. However, they do not know this person is an opportunist and will finally choose the winning side. But he might drop some hints as long as he still thinks the PCs are more or less in control of the situation.

I want to introduce the mutiny more to keep the players on their toes than create huge problems for them.

"Mutiny on the bounty" actually gave me the idea. It gave me the feeling a mutiny always starts with an execution.

I also have a copy of Treasure Island, and have recently seen a stage version of it. This was also a source of inspiration.

You are right that the PCs should see it coming. But they already do in a way. After the session on Friday one of the players commented: "O no, this is it! We went too far!"

They wanted to keep the execution factual and businesslike, but they like melodrama and it became much too dramatic. That is where it probably went wrong.

What helps, is the use of knowledge checks. Players can only tell something about a monster if their character has knowledge (e.g. dungeoneering, nature, the planes) applicable to the monster. He or she can then make a knowledge check, and then I tell the player what his or her character knows. Use this as a strict rule.

I also never tell them the name of the monster (which has already been advised in this thread). I also use a lot of original monsters, and often add templates, character levels etc. This keeps players on their toes.

You can also use player knowledge against them, e.g. use a wolfwere or a jackalwere when they expect a werewolf. Works every time, and your players never metagame again.

One of my players knows a lot about my campaign world that his character does not know, and is always tempted to use that knowledge. So I always create situations which are slightly different than he expects, to keep him on his toes. He always thinks he knows the situation, but usually ends up discovering that he does not.

I also have strict rules about combat: players are forbidden to give other players advise out of game. They can only use their free action in character to shout advice.

In my campaign the atmosphere on the Sea Wyvern is getting tense and the PCs are adding to the tension. In the beginning the PC captain did her best to keep tension under control, but she has been neglecting that lately and gone complacent. She thinks she has everything firmly in hand. Also, PCs have been involved in a series of mysterious incidents where several NPCs have disappeared under questionable circumstances. The PCs have explained away all these incidents, with high bluff checks, but these explanations were even more worrisome than the events that they were meant to hide. The PCs have been telling stories about people disappearing in mysterious cursed tempels dedicated to ancient Olman gods, about attacks by demons and mysterious undead and about Olman plotting to murder innocent NPCs.
And one of the PCs together with Skald shot a (savage) albatross.
The crew is muttering and getting more and more superstitous after hearing all these stories. The final incident was that the captain accused an Olman passenger of killing one of the other passengers. The Olman confessed, but his behavior was strange and he was screaming about a curse (he was under the influence of a very subtle magical effect). The captain decided to let him walk the plank.
The named NPCs who are really getting worried, are Skald, Avner, Amella and Lirith. Amella notices from her earlier experiences aboard ships that something is brewing, and is worried that the captain cannot control the situation anymore. Avner is angry with two of the PCs, since one stole "his" girl, and the other is downright rude against him all the time. Lirith has allied herself with Avner, since he is rich and the PCs have been totally ignoring her so far, dismissing her as unimportant. And Skald has begun to worry that some of the PCs might be evil (though he does not have any hard evidence, and one of the PCs he does not suspect, is his friend). Then there are some nameless crew members who are simply superstitious, especially about the albatross.
There is another named NPC (of my own making) who knows for a fact the truth behind one of the incidents, because he was there. He knows the PCs murdered an NPC, and is even an accomplice to that murder. It was necessary, since it was a dangerous and evil NPC. However, this named NPC is getting worried, because he suspects that the other incidents on the ship also have to do with getting rid of undesireables, and fears that it will soon be his turn, because he knows too much about the PCs.
And then there is father Feres, who is emotionally manipulated by one of the PCs. She is seducing him for her own ends, and certainly not out of love. She does not do anything to hide it from the others, and people are beginning to notice. Moreover, the Olman who was forced to walk the plank, was a competitor of father Feres for her attentions, and is now conveniently gotten rid of.
Contacts with the Blue Nixie are also not very good at the moment, as there is friction between one of the PCs and three of the Jade Ravens (since the PC is flirting with Liamae).
For me as DM this feels like an explosive situation. The question is when and how I am going to let this explode.

Ideas would be very much appreciated, especially if someone has had a similar situation (a mutiny) on the Sea Wyvern. How did it go?

Since we play once every 2-3 weeks and play very slowly (my players are fond of roleplaying), it will take us some time to finish the STAP. We started in November 2007, and are now nearly at the end of SWW. But we are having lots of fun, and that is what counts!

I had planned some combat for yesterday evening, but the players kept doing other things and this ended in a lot of intrigue on board the Sea Wyvern (ending in the deaths of 2 minor NPCs). This has created a lot of distrust against the PCs under the mayor NPCs, and I am considering to have them plotting rebellion (maybe led by Avner). This probably means adding an extra session, or extra problems during HTBM.

I keep hoping to play one of the pathfinder adventure paths with them some day :-)

Within the context of Savage Tide Malcanthet is a logical choice. And she would do something like pretend to be another god in order to hide her tracks. If you think your player can handle the final discovery he has not been chosen by Boccob at all, you should certainly consider this.

On another note, Boccob may take away these powers temporarily, showing him how hard things might be without his aid, like when he is about to heal an ally from the brink of death and is suddenly unable to.

Perhaps you should be careful with this. If the ally is a character belonging to another player, you actually punish the other player and not the player of the favored soul.

Perhaps it is better first to talk with this player about his motives and his purpose with this character. Then you can find out whether he is a power player or whether he has an original character concept in mind. Then you can decide what to do about him.

He has found an item that causes havoc for the PCs or NPCs they meet on the road. E.g. a cursed item with a certain negative effect (e.g. it automatically summons some nasty evil creature every day, which randomly attacks bystanders). In this case the item need not be stolen from the PCs, but others can ask the PCs for help. They can follow the trail of destruction the monster left behind.

That is really a nice way to foreshadow NPCs from Sea Wyvern's Wake. I hope it works out and that your PCs like it.

I actually have one Olman PC, and also a half-orc PC who sympathizes with the Olman. He sees himself as an Olman hero and I have given him a weapon that "grows" with him. However, I have decided to use my own system for this, so that I can give the weapon new powers that are useful in the adventure.

My players are all wanting to live abord the Blue Nixie while in Lavinia's employ. How can I get them off the boat, or should I let them take the Blue Nixie to Kraken Cove (but drop them off in the designated place in the adventure)?

Well, since it is Lavinia's ship, she decides who is on it and who is not.

But if your PCs are so fond of ship-based adventures, they could take the Blue Nixie to Kraken's cove (with Lavinia's permission and enough crew, I think they need 7 people) and later use it to tow the Sea Wyvern to Sasserine. Since they have no map of the cove, they will have to stop at the designated place in the adventure, since otherwise they run the risk of smashing the Blue Nixie on the treacherous reefs. A character with profession (sailor) or another nautical skill will realize this. If they are stubborn and sail into the cove anyway, then let them smash into a reef and add a nice sea encounter (savage sharks or something like that) when the ship is making water and they have to abandon ship. Later let them explain to Lavinia why they crashed her ship.

One of my players plays a LE ranger who does not care for any people at all, not even family. However, she does care for animals and does not want to see them get hurt.

Perhaps when you arrive at the monsters with damage reduction and the group does not have the requisite weapon to break through the damage reduction.

Yes, that's them!

#1 How do you get ideas for characters?

From real life, books, TV, movies, the news, etc. Sometimes a character just pops up in my mind. Sometimes the idea comes from the adventure or campaign situation.

#2 What decisions do you make during character creation to have the character fit that idea?

First I check which race and class/classes best fits the character. Then I throw the dice and choose the abilities which best fit the class and the character (so it is possible that I make a rogue with high intelligence instead of dexterity), then I look for skills, feats, deities, spells, etc. fitting the character, and finally items (mundane and magic) and props.

#3 Do you think of character backstory first and personality second, or vice versa?

It depends on the character. Sometimes the one, sometimes the other, sometimes both at once. In my current campaign I created some NPCs who were related to other NPCs in the previous campaign, but I wanted them to have some character traits the previous NPCs did not have. In this case the backstory came first and the personality second. Most of the time it is the other way round.

#4 When playing characters, what emotional things do you draw upon to act out your character's personality?

I am not really good at doing voices and accents, so my repertoire of voices is limited. Sometimes I describe what the person looks like, how he or she reacts to the situation, etc. If I do a voice, I try to modify the speech pattern, such as talking slower or quicker, adding extra pauses, using long and difficult words or short words/sentences, etc. Sometimes I use gestures to emphasize ideas and emotions. Sometimes I use recurring words or gimmicks like a person who is always singing, etc. I have just introduced a character who talks about himself in the third person, thus creating distance and objectivity.

Consider that he probably would not have given you his character sheet if he was really cheating. So I would say go for solution 2.

You can also consider keeping the character sheets with you, so that you can check them sometimes. It also helps to tailor the adventures to the players, so you can use that as a reason. Then you do not have to accuse anyone of cheating.

If people really cheat, you notice it during play, e.g. because they have a bonus that is way too high for their level, etc. If I notice something extravagant during play, I always ask how the player got such a high bonus, and let him or her calculate it before me. Usually it is OK, and the player is just playing a maxed out character.
Sometimes I spot an error, which I correct. If this happens only sometimes, I just assume it is an error.

Twilight's last gleaming from Dungeon 35 is a nice one.

Does using tar and illusions to disguise the Sea Wyvern as a ghost ship qualify? :-)

I also use props. So when I know the character concept, I think about which (mundane and magical) items fit the character. When a character is e.g. a gentleman, he has a walking stick. If he is a gentleman with a secret, he might have a weapon hidden within the walking stick, etc. When introducing the character during play I describe such details to the players and let them draw conclusions.

It sounds like you have a lot of plot hooks. Perhaps there are simply too many hooks for the PCs to choose from. I had a similar problem with a group once. They decided not to participate in a climactic battle, but to watch it from afar on a hilltop. This sounds somewhat like what your group is doing.

Perhaps it might help to lessen the number of plot hooks, and to make the plot hooks you really want them to play, more urgent. The group I referred to above had a wonderful evening when I ran them through an adventure where they had to locate seven exploding magic items in a city they were staying in at the moment - within 3 hours! If these items exploded, chaos would result. They had an exciting race to find them all, and the adventure really got their adrenaline running.
Another thing that works well with them, is a chase scene.

These are all scenes where the PCs have next to no choice what to do, and have to make split-second decisions. They do not have the luxury to discuss "what they will be doing this evening", since in a way it is determined for them.

I do not mean to say you have to guide them by the hand all the time, but if you do this a few times, it will probably work. E.g. let the evil wizard teleport some minions to them after scrying them, and attack. Make the enemies more proactive, and involve the players in the action by letting them experience the consequences of their inaction directly. If you do this, they will probably be more wary on an evening their enemies do not attack, and they will check out your leads just in case they miss something the enemy might be planning. (Make them paranoid.)

I hope this advice is of use to you, since of course I do not know your group. Good luck with your campaign.

I recently stumbled upon "Granite mountain prison" from Dungeon 36. If you have it, it is worth checking out, since it is really a very nasty prison to escape from.

I think I have this story in a book somewhere. I will check it out. Sounds like good inspiration.

Thanks everybody for all the great ideas. There are so many ideas now that I have to think things through. I will let you know what I come up with.

This really offers potential, especially because there is an important LN god in my campaign world who uses inevitables to further his ends.

The visilight is also a nice option. I will check out these monsters in Monster Manual III.

If you let Lavinia escape the bullywugs, she can hire the PCs to drive them from her house, where they still hold the Jade Ravens hostage. That would make a nice second part of the adventure.

If you have time, look up VIKTOR KORCHNOY & LEV ALBERT.

Maybe you'll get some ideas for NPC chessplayers. These are the two famous USSR defectors. Korchnoy played for the World Championship against Karpov in '78. Lev lives in NY; his defection story to the US is amazing.

If this sounds interesting, let me know -- I'll be glad to provide info with a personality the history texts may not have.

I would be interested in that. I have been toying with the real-world history of chess, e.g. by calling a famous chess player Korchov (a combination of Karpov and Korchnoy). The player is trying to trace this chess player in order to get more information, and I have also introduced a skill so that she can spend skill points on playing chess.

If there's someone else getting the white chess pieces, it almost has to be someone that the evil PC has an emotional attachment to. A sibling, or lover, or friend. Someone they would really hesitate to fight because it is going to result in personal pain. Because some things are cliche for a reason :)

Well, that is part of the problem. The PC has made it pretty clear that she has severed all bonds with her family, and has even sacrificed her own LG brother. The only persons she has an emotional attachment to are other PCs.

Before we started this campaign, I told the players that they could only play evil characters when they found a good reason to not turn against other PCs. I also promised them that I would not introduce any plot lines where they were asked to take action against other PCs.

It sure bears thinking about...

What I want is some kind of choice for the PC. So killing the king would be evil, but have negative repercussions for the campaign. Something like that.

One of my PCs is lawful evil. She is a descendant of a previous PC in a previous campaign. This PC was lawful good and very noble, and has risen to saint/demigod status (as NPC of course). The current PC rebels against her family tradition of goodness by becoming evil. This saint now has to watch how his great-grandchild turns to evil, even to devil worship.
The LG PC was renowned for his conversions. He e.g. converted a notorious CE wizard by playing chess with him every week and trying to gain his friendship.
The LG saint wants to do something to convert his descendant, but of course he cannot intervene directly. So I have come up with the idea that he leaves symbolic messages. Now every time the LE PC performs an evil deed, she finds a black chess piece. When it is only a minor evil deed, she finds a pawn. When it is a very evil deed, she finds a bishop, a knight or even the queen or king.
I want to stage some momentous event when she has the black chess set complete. I have already come up with the idea that someone else gets the white chess set piece by piece, and that these two have to play a chess match, probably in a last-ditch attempt to save the evil character's soul.
But I still have no idea who the antagonist will be. I have toyed with the idea of an angel, or of a LG mirrored version of the PC, but these ideas do not strike me as very original. So I wonder whether anybody has suggestions how to go from here. The PC already has 7 chess pieces, so time is running out.

I think there are comments somewhere in the adventure about adapting the campaign to FR. I also remember that there is a thread about it somewhere on this forum, but I do not remember what it is called. I do not know about Eberron, however.

I did some heavy adaptation, because I play the STAP in my own campaign world.

I always tailor this to the campaign. Ways I have started campaigns in the past:

1) The characters were waiting in a long line by the city gate in order to get in. The guards were checking and double-checking everyone thoroughly. This was a city with an evil ruler.

2) The characters were living in the same village, and a political rival threatened their lives. So they all left the village in a Viking ship with a famous captain who went plundering every spring (this was a Viking campaign).

3) The characters woke up in the hold of a ship and had no idea how they got there. None of them remembered the last 24 hours. It created the right atmosphere: "we're all in this together, whatever "this" is".

I am going to start a Victorian/gothic campaign soon which starts out in a train, where the characters will have seats next to each other. The train will be under attack.

The gladiatorial adventure is called "Pandemonium in the veins" and is in Dungeon 96.

As far as paladins or LG cleric PCs are concerned, this might not be a good idea for the STAP. If you want to know why, then read "Enemies of my enemy". There are some groups with paladins and LG clerics that ran into trouble with this adventure.

If you murder the player's character, he will just make a new one and start his annoying practices all over again, or probably worse out of some kind of feeling of revenge.

I think I know this type of player. I had one once and he spoiled the game for everybody. I talked to this player and told him to change his playing style, but he explicitly did not want to do this, since that was the way he played. Then I told him he could not play in my game anymore, since I did not want the other players to quit. It is the only time in more than 20 years of DM-ing I ever kicked someone out of the group, but the group was better for it and I do not regret it one minute.

Both my husband and I have been playing together in D&D games since 1982. I am DM-ing since 1988 and my husband has been playing in my group since then. It has never caused any problems at all. Instead it has made the game more fun, especially when my husband is thinking up a new character concept and discussing it with me, which makes us both laugh a lot.
Soon our 10 year old daughter will be playing with us in a new campaign, starting some time this year.

The second piece of advice: Talk to the disruptive player. Maybe he doesn't want ot be a jerk and thinks you're having fun. Make clear to him that you aren't.

This is good advice. It might be that the player is totally bored because his character cannot die, and that he is reacting in this way because of the DM. The only way you can find out if this is so, is talking to this player. The player might actually be your ally.

Nice touch!

My group is discussing a reason for keelhauling Avner at the moment :-)

You could also check out the freeport modules. They have a nice piraty feel.

What about War of the Wielded from dungeon 149? It is set in Sasserine, but I guess it can easily be transferred to another city/town.

If you specifically want a pirate adventure, you could use the following, but since they are rather low, you will have to increase the difficulty of the encounters:

Dead man's quest (dungeon 107)
Siege of the spider eaters (dungeon 137)

We have not finished the path yet, but I will tell you what I have done so far.

I changed the introduction. The PCs were walking along the harbor after arriving in Sasserine by ship. They overheard the discussion between Soller Vark and Lavinia in the harbormaster's office. Since my players are the meddling type, this worked very well, since they interfered at once.

I elaborated on the plot with the Lotus Dragons and added extra criminal elements in Sasserine.

I added some treasure hunter NPCs to breathe more life in the plot line of the Olman artefacts they can find on the Isle of Dread. I added a lot of extra Olman stuff to give the Olman more screen time, e.g. they could read some vague prophecies in the calendar stone with a knowledge (religion).

I also added a lot of stuff to make the campaign fit in my own campaign world. I used other organizations and chose some other deities that my players were more familiar with.

I elaborated on SWW a lot. I worked out the whole sea voyage in the form of a log, just as discussed earlier. I used 1st edition Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan with a lot of adaptations to accomodate some individual story lines linked to the PCs. I added extra NPCs to the two ships. I added some extra encounters, one with pirates and one with a ghost ship. I added Tammeraut's fate on an island in SWW.

I am going to add the adventure Torrents of dread as well, as one of the missions in TOD.

I beefed up some encounters, since I have six players. Usually I add more mooks.

So far this campaign has been great fun. I hope it will be the same to you.

I remember there was also some stuff in the STAP players guide, related to the black market, buying animals and monsters, etc.

In the STAP I introduced an NPC based on Paris Hilton, but with a twist. She is very popular with the players.
Another NPC was based on Derrick (the protagonist of the German crime series).

I like it that my players have made their own forum, where they discuss the events in the game. I especially love it when they share their paranoid ideas about the plot, and when they think up outrageous schemes of solving the problems in the adventure or of adding new intrigue to the game.

I like it that 3 of my players have been my players since 1988.

I like it that I started my campaign world long ago with 3 countries and a small map, and now have a large world-size map with a lot of countries, cities, characters and history. I also like it that my players recognize these countries, places and characters and storylines, and that the campaign world still keeps growing.

A good idea is to find some books on folklore from that period, and turn the stories into adventures. If there are monsters in them, you could choose to use the monsters, but you could also choose that the stories have changed in the telling and have a much more mundane origin (e.g. a giant was just a huge wild man, or a werewolf was just a hairy bandit). Also check out stories like Chanson de Roland or Charles and Elegast. It is nice to use typical legends from that period, since they make the campaign very atmospheric.

Another good idea is to get a book about the region where you want to stage the adventures, to get a feel for landscape, villages, etc.

My brother once DM-ed a campaign which played in roughly the same period. Missionaries were arriving in pagan Frisia in order to convert it and cut down the holy oaks, burn the holy groves, etc. We played a group of pagans trying to stop the coming of Christianity. One of the adventures involved a trek through the Waddenzee, a sea you can walk through at ebb tide in order to reach the islands. That is an example of what I mean by using landscape.
It was a very atmospheric, grim and dangerous campaign. I still have fond memories of it.

Good luck with the new campaign. I hope I have been able to give some inspiration.

It is probably done because most PCs have more protection against suffocation than against acid. Acid is sort of a "forgotten" damage type most players do not buy/use protection against. Especially at high levels it is often one of the damage types that still works, so swallow whole can still be dangerous at high levels.

I have had some fun with that in a previous campaign which ran into epic levels. In one of the adventures the party was subjected to a chaos ritual with all kinds of chaotic effects. They were transported back in time and ended up in the stomach of the tarrasque. That was a very memorable encounter, and great fun to run.

If you watch out for the few flaws (you can read all about them on the forum) this is a great adventure path. The nice thing is that is has the feel of a long adventure, and not of a series of short dungeon crawls. This might welll be the most fun campaign I have ever DM-ed.

The adventures have some very original ideas and locations (e.g. the sargasso) and the Isle of Dread is a great location. It really has a high adventure feel to it.

Congratulations on your wedding. Have a very nice day and a very nice honeymoon.

Last session they were worrying about the lack of tar. One player remarked that they should not use too much oil, as they could use it instead of tar. I told them that the 2 characters with craft (shipwright) know that oil will not do, since it is too thin and fluid. Moreover, they have only a few flasks of oil, just enough to grease the steering wheel mechanism or do something similar.

The art of being a DM is to make the group suffer just so much that they feel they really need to go after te healer, but not to overdo it (e.g. that they are so weak or lack so much healing that they do not have the courage anymore to go after the healer). So if possible let Olangru kidnap the healer not too early in the adventure, and preferably after a battle where the characters lost some resources, but not all of them, so that they have to improvise.

I am curious to read how things turned out. My group is approaching that moment in probably 2-3 sessions.

Well, who knows! I was intending to let Avner mutter a bit about Olman witches :-)