Lord Fyre's page

Of course, this is all academic. We know that the real Iconics of D&D are . . .

Hank, Human Male Ranger (white)
Eric, Human Male Fighter (white)
Diana, Human Female Monk (black)
Presto, Human Male Wizard (white)
Shiela, Human Female Rogue (white)
Bobby, Human Male Barbarian (white)

2 of six are female
1 of six is ethnic
1 of two females is scantily clad.

Honestly I see no reason to bother protesting WotC. It's their game, they're free to manage it how they want. What they need to understand is that thanks to the OGL, which they themselves are responsible for, we have an alternative to adopting the new game. If Pathfinder sells well enough, we will have a new game to rally around. It won't matter what WotC does with D&D because the state of our game will no longer be beholden to short term business strategies that sometimes backfire in the long run. As long as Paizo does a good job managing Pathfinder, who cares what WptC does with D&D?

The only problem is that when you get out into the larger "gamer" community, you hit a problem of people not knowing what Pathfinder is, or who Paizo is. :(

Lord Fyre wrote:

Actually, WoTC killing off the print versions Dragon and Dungeon many have been a good thing.

Check out the link. :)

~wry smile~ Oh, I know that there have been several unexpected benifits to come out of the death of my two favorite magazines. Paizo's stuff and Kobold Quarterly are just two examples. However, that doesn't mean that I can't still be mad, does it?

No, of course not.

Worse, if the way Hasbro/WoTC is handling matters ends up scuttling D&D, I think that it will do a great deal of damage to the hobby. :(

~shrugs~ My protest is that I am not going to be buying 4.x or supporting WotC at this time. Besides, with my bill for my Paizo products, I have little left over on my gaming budget.

Oh, and it is not 4.x that has really upset me, it is the killing of the PRINT versions of Dragon and Dungeon Magazine. A new edition is no major trouble. I have played enough games to know how to adjust, but the loss of the mags? GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

Actually, WoTC killing off the print versions Dragon and Dungeon many have been a good thing.

Check out the link. :)

Pangur Bàn wrote:

There's actually quite a bit of clamoring for WotC to review their 4E licence policy. Maybe not so much here, but that's to be expected: paizo won't be supporting 4E and to the best of my knowledge nobody from WotC frequents these boards. There's rather a big ruckus on EnWorld and on the WotC forums though.

Unfortunately the strongest protest will come from WoTC losing business to more player friendly companies like Paizo. (That's why I've recently joined this site.) The shortfall of that is the time for them to feel any pain. Right now I believe they're surrounding themselves in self-congratulations. If you even suggest shortcomings in 4E or the restrictive game license you get flamed, and flamed some more. Those boards would have you believe that you're retarded for not paying homage at the 4E/WoTC shrine.

They won't believe that they need to loosen the license a bit until financials come in. A common message from the Thought Police is that 4E is the most successful release in the history of gaming. We don't need no stinkin 3rd party support. I think the lie will be revealed in the long run. Us longtime gamers like diversity, and freedom.

Sorry, no solution in the short term IMO.

The WoTC 4th Edition Enforcement Section has found you and will be coming to pick you up.

this is all very interesting stuff... but I still think there should be more scantily clad females :)

I too agree with the Dwarf!

Lord Fyre wrote:

Krome wrote:

Honestly I can only think of a couple of published adventures using a female as the BBEG. I think if it fits the story then go for it.

And any one who pulls punches cause the BBEG is female deserves to be defeated. And if the PCs get all touchy feely with her, even after her demise you might slip some brochures into their books about therapy.

You mean the litany of people who wanted to "reform" Nualia?

If by reform you mean bang her dead and mangled corpse I suppose so.

nuts now *I* need therapy just to get that vision out of my head!

Actually no. I mean exactly what you were talking about: "PCs get all touchy feely with her."

Appearently in some despirate geeks minds, if a woman is HAWT then she can get away with murder. :(

Honestly I can only think of a couple of published adventures using a female as the BBEG. I think if it fits the story then go for it.

And any one who pulls punches cause the BBEG is female deserves to be defeated. And if the PCs get all touchy feely with her, even after her demise you might slip some brochures into their books about therapy.

You mean the litany of people who wanted to "reform" Nualia?

Maybe it's my pent-up sadistic side, or the repressed masochist hidden inside me, but reading the Zon-Kuthon article sorta turned me on. Anyone else get the urge to out and buy some leather and partake in some self-mutilation when perusing the newest issue of Pathfinder?

Of course, if you were really into self-mutilation, you could just play 4th Edition . . .

If you mean is it OK to post to a thread that's in the archives? Sure, that's fine. It'll get unarchived and brought back into the forum.

Unless it's some long, overargued, drama-filled monstrosity. In that case, just create a new thread on the topic.

So, "Thread Necromancy" would be okay in this case?

Is it bad to "revive" an old thread about the Necromancer class?

Anyway, in Pathfinder we get:

Harsk - male dwarf ranger (pretty nordic looking)
Merisiel - female elf rogue (could be caucasian)
Seelah - female human paladin (black and female, bravo)
Lem - male halfling bard (fairly caucasian)
Kyra - female human cleric (definite middle eastern look)
Amiri - female human barbarian (caucasian)
Ezrin - male human wizard (caucasian, but passably a minority)
Seoni - female human sorcerer (definitely ethnic)
Seltyiel - male half-elf fighter/sorcerer (albino)
Lini - female gnome druid (ethnic)
Valeros - male human fighter (caucasian, possibly ethnic)
Sajan - male human monk (black)

PRPG has a healthy mix:
6 out of 12 are female.
5 out of 12 are distinctly non-caucasian.
3 out of 12 are female and distinctly non-caucasion.
1 out of 12 is female and scantily clad.

That is a pretty inspiring and healthy representation, and a very good assortment of role-models for players young and old.

I hope I didn't leave anyone out. And good job again, Paizo!

For those of you keeping score, D&D PHB 3.5 had:

Krusk - male half-orc barbarian (ethnic)
Gimble - male gnome bard (caucasian, possibly ethnic)
Jozan - male human cleric (caucasian)
Vadania - female elf druid (possible ethnic)
Tordek - male dwarf fighter (ethnic)
Regdar - male human fighter (possibly ethnic)
Ember - female human monk (black, a good choice by Wizards)
Alhandra - female half-elf? paladin (ethnic)
Soveliss - male elf ranger (ethnic)
Lidda - female halfling rogue (caucasian)
Hennet - male human sorcerer (possibly ethnic)
Mialee - female elf wizard (ethnic)
Nebin - male gnome illusionist (ethnic)

5 out of 13 are female.
6 out of 13 are distinctly non-caucasian.
2 out of 13 are female and distinctly non-caucasian.
1 out of 13 are female and scantily dressed (the wizard, the monk is dressed fairly appropriately for her role).

In a vain effort to get this thread onto a more positive track . . .

Seoni > Mialee :P

Too late. :(

We already know who the 12 iconics are.

A Dwarven Ranger
An Elf Rogue
A Gnome Druid
A Half-Elven Multiclass
A Halfling Bard
A Human Barbarian
A Human Cleric
A Human Fighter
A Human Monk
A Human Paladin
A Human Sorceress
A Human Wizard

At this point, who would the "Bump" to be the half-orc iconic.

Ironically, the one you could "bump" would be Seoni.

She is already the "Obligatory Marketing Babe" for the Pathfinder series, so her place is assured. But, that would also allow room for a Half-Orc Sorcerer Iconic. :)

(Just a thought.)

I am still unclear on one thing though.

How does the OP feel about the minion rules?

Too late. :(

We already know who the 12 iconics are.

A Dwarven Ranger
An Elf Rogue
A Gnome Druid
A Half-Elven Multiclass
A Halfling Bard
A Human Barbarian
A Human Cleric
A Human Fighter
A Human Monk
A Human Paladin
A Human Sorceress
A Human Wizard

At this point, who would the "Bump" to be the half-orc iconic.

Pixar's movies are pretty much never "children's fare". Sure, kids like em, but its not because they are being pandered to.

I would bet that kids like them because they are NOT being pandered to. :)

(There is no age minimum for the "detect crap" skill.)

Bah! Diplomacy! Who cares! :P

Pax Veritas wrote:

I think we can expect PRPG to be entwined with Golarion setting.

That is not our intent. If anything, we'll eventually aim for the opposite and begin entwining the PRPG into Golarion. :)

I don't understand that sentence? =8-0

But, without power attack, we would have missed out on this joke . . . <eg>

All I know is it involves the Halfling Tao of Passion.

No, that would only be a "Short" episode. :P

Since we are moving past the "Mid-Point" of the Curse Of The Crimson Throne, do we yet know what will be beyond the Second Darkness? :D

Mongoose's Conan d20 rules also used armor as DR. :)

I thought that it worked really well. I second this idea.

The Paizo police will break down your door and lock you up if you homebrew. Be vigilant, citizen.

Oh no! Not the Paizo Goblins! Anything but that!

Here is a question that has been bothering me?

Is the Pathfinder RPG limited to use on Golarion? Or Can it be used to play in a different word? (Greyhawk, Hyboria, Barsoom, etc.)

(With appologies to Steven Sondheim)

Isn't it rich?
Are we a pair?
Me here at last on the ground,
You in mid-air.
Send in the gnomes.

Isn't it bliss?
Don't you approve?
One who keeps tearing around,
One who can't move.
Where are the gnomes?
Send in the gnomes.

Just when I'd stopped opening doors,
Finally knowing the one that I wanted was yours,
Making my entrance again with my usual flair,
Sure of my lines,
No one is there.

Don't you love farce?
My fault I fear.
I thought that you'd want what I want.
Sorry, my dear.
But where are the gnomes?
Quick, send in the gnomes.
Don't bother, they're here. (in Pathfinder)

Isn't it rich?
Isn't it queer,
Losing my timing this late
In my career?
And where are the gnomes?
There ought to be gnomes.
Well, maybe next year.

Lord Fyre wrote:

Paul Watson wrote:

Wired wrote:

Good story, good friends, rolling dice, having fun. What else could be more important, in the real world or the one of Dungeons & Dragons?

Nothing. What makes these impossible under another rules system? Also nothing.

True. But I believe the idea is/was to make the game more accessable to people who are not already die-hard geeks.

(Of course, with the rapid rate that WoTC is pouring out splat-books, they may undermine that stated goal. :( )

I'm not questioning the game design. I'm questioning the review saying "4E is fun. 3E is unfun". It's become one of my pet hates in the whole edition wars we've got going on around here. Right up there with "4E is for retards" or "it's not a role-playing game" etc

The Hasbro Thought Police will be at your door shortly. :P

Wired wrote:

Good story, good friends, rolling dice, having fun. What else could be more important, in the real world or the one of Dungeons & Dragons?

Nothing. What makes these impossible under another rules system? Also nothing.

True. But I believe the idea is/was to make the game more accessable to people who are not already die-hard geeks.

(Of course, with the rapid rate that WoTC is pouring out splat-books, they may undermine that stated goal. :( )

Lord Fyre wrote:

The Pathfinder adventure paths are AWESOME!

(But, now I am kind of getting tired of the Fantasy Genre. :( )

What I really want to find is an "adventure path" set in either a Superhero or Modern setting. :)

Nick Logue is coming out with a d20 future mini campaign, cold black. That could be useful for ya as well if you are feeling the need for variety.

That is definitely something I will be looking at!

Because, yes, I am looking for some variety. Too much of just one genre can get me kind of bored.

The Pathfinder adventure paths are AWESOME!

(But, now I am kind of getting tired of the Fantasy Genre. :( )

What I really want to find is an "adventure path" set in either a Superhero or Modern setting. :)

It's interesting to me how often in 4E threads that even those who love the game have already decided that they are "houseruling" a bunch of stuff.

I found with 3.x that I could play the core rules completely as written.

Which brings back up that we know - directly from WoTC - that 4th Edition as written will be an INCOMPLETE game. They have deliberately left races/classes and rule information off, to force the purchase of the PH2 and DMG2 next year.

roguerouge wrote:

Accidental? Hardly. It's that these corporations decided that no one was going to sue them for breaking the agreement.

I work in the book business. There's no "sue" involved. You pay a fine to the publisher if you violate a Strict-On-Sale date or they stop dealing with you. You can also face weights & measures legal issues. That said, once someone violates the S.O.S., the publisher often lifts it so everybody else can benefit from the sale of the hot product. Don't be surprised if you see 4e stuff on the shelves of all manner of stores before Friday.

On that "stop dealing with you" not only does the early distributor risk losing WoTC's business, but there is a small (but very real) possibility that they could lose Hasbro's business. (I used to work with SOE, and yes SONY did protect us this way in one instance.)

So, I really doubt that the pre-release was deliberate.

... is amazing. Let me say how glad I am that you guys have Wayne Reynolds (not sure if ever didn't have him). He's my fav.

Sorry for the ogling. It's really the small things that are going to make PRPG amazing.

I am still busy ogling Seoni. ;)

My 10 year old son is far more anti-4e than I am. I have to caution him at times when he starts talking about the subject that I am sure the game will appeal to somebody. His first reaction to it, upon reading the 4e character sheets was that it felt more like a superheroes game than D&D. Pathfinder Alpha on the other hand, he seems to like.

Hey! Superhero Games are AWESOME!! ;)