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Liam Warner's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,024 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 1 alias.


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Blinks at the "Must have 5 ranks in a skill OTHER than knowledge religion." How on earth does that work on a priest prestige class.

"Hi father I wish to join your order."
"Tell me my son the name of your god."
"I worship he who walks behind the rows."
"There is no place for you here."
"What, why?"
"You know the name of your god."
". . ."

I know deific obedience requires religion 3 its just "Must have rank 5 in a skill other than religion" or "able to cast 3rd level spells" seems a really clunky way to say "You must be 5th level to take this class."

Short Answer
Class Balance

Long Answer
Wizards leave it to the priests, if you want a healing spell ask to research it like any other custom spell (one of my personal favorites is hygiene for a quick and easy way to get clean). It'll cost you time and resources learning arcane way's to do the same thing any priest can do spontaneously but there's no line in the sand saying no (unless your GM puts on there). In fact Baba Yaga Queen of the witch's is stated as having researched arcane versions of EVERY divine spell in existence (or at least the core books). I've had a couple of wizards myself research various healing spells in games where no one wanted to play a priest.

This is aimed at those who want unlimited healing but don't want to be casting a cantrip hundreds if times in a row. Maybe make it channelled so rather than 150 castings the cleric casts it and then concentrates for 150 rounds (quarter of an hour) to heal the 150 damage the fighter took?

darrenan wrote:
j b 200 wrote:

I've been looking at the Exp for this book, and it says that you should get enough exp to go from level 5 to level 6 between the Minotaur, Jeslyn and the wardstone/babues. I added it up and it totals 20500, about 2500 short for to hit level 6 (per player). I'm not sure where the extra exp is supposed to come from.

Experience totals per part
Part 1: 1800
Part 2: 3300
Part 3: 5100 (varies depending on randoms)
Part 4: 5500
Wardstone/Babues: 4800
Total: 20500

I'm confused as well, but mostly by this part:

The PCs should reach 5th level just
before or just after destroying the
wardstone fragment.
The PCs should be catapulted into
6th level by this adventure’s climactic
encounter—as part of this, they should
also attain their first mythic tier.

There doesn't seem to be anything between those two except a fight with some Babaus, how does that 'catapult' them into 6th level? Is there an uber XP award for going mythic or something? I'm definitely missing something here.

Sorry about the delay in replying real life is keeping me busy. However I think from your post your only adding up fixed XP since you mention randoms only in part 3. However the entire time the party is below the city there's a 35% chance per hour of an encounter ranging from a single darkmantle up to a venomous snake swarm (sure its a 35% chance of an encounter and then a 89-100 for it but its 1,200 by itself with no other encounters). Similarly part 4 and the assault can generate more XP if they have multiple attacks rather than taking the place on their first try and just because they've progress to taking the fight to the enemy doesn't mean that the randoms from part 3 stop occuring. I admit there's not enough XP between destroying the wardstone and the end of the adventure if they only hit 5 when doing that. So in that case you may either need to beef the final fight up or just accept they'll be 5th level in part 4 sometime not necessarily when they destroy the fragment.

Hmmmmmmmmm food for thought.

Ascalaphus wrote:

@Liam: it's always nice to have good relations with the local nobles.

However, if you can reliably obtain +3 weapons, it means you have access to a (roughly) level 9 spellcaster. Maybe you ARE that spellcaster. You're not exactly a common peasant that's easy prey for predatory nobles.

These people have, and sell, military grade weaponry to people with dubious morals. You can try to squeeze them, but it's not as easy or safe as squeezing peasants. If they get too upset, they might hire some PCs to kill you, payment in magic weapons.

I'm beginning to think that magic arms dealers might actually become a sort of Military-Arcane Complex that has significant political influence, due to the amount of money they handle and the dangerous people they know.

Its a numbers game, you have access to a 9th level caster he has access to 50 plus several thousand troops. Then when the next shop owner opens up its "Just remember Claudius." "Ummm who's . . . Claudiua?" "Claudius and if you want an answer just dig in your back yard."

That said a magical medieval society - western Europe does actually mention that spellcaster do wind up wiedling a certain degree of influence in their communities and can even get special perks such as being allowed to serve for 3 years at the end of their apprentticeship rather than having to pay the money up front like most people. So your right there, I was more making a point that they aren't going to be rolling in cash. The more powerful/valuable an item is the less likely it is to sell.

MurphysParadox wrote:

Most likely, you'd have a guild council that would have a liaison on the town council. You wouldn't want each guild on the town's council.

There should be a trade councilor with responsibilities of taxes, tariffs, and interacting with foreign merchants.

If it has a harbor, the master could either be under the trade councilor, on the guild council, or even have a seat on the town council if it is big enough.

Likewise, the farmers would have the same set-up depending on how important they are to the town and its business.

If the town is on the border of two countries, there may be ambassadors on the council.

Just to clarify after reading your post when I say village I mean just that not a major town or important landmark. At most there'd probably be no more than a hundred people living in it and the surrounding lands, definately less than 200. Although some of your suggestions would make sense for larger places I don't want this for somewhere of major importance. For example if it has a harbour it just has some fishing boats in it and nothing big enough to justify a permanent position.

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wspatterson wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:

He sounds neutral to me.

Certainly one can do some evil things while still being good -- I'm sure that Martin Luther King spanked his kids, which is technically assault and torture.

But torturing and killing defaulters,... That's beyond Dickensian excesses.

No, spanking your child is not, technically or otherwise, assault or torture. Someone other than the parent spanking a child will, in many places, be battery.

Anyway, this NPC is, at best, neutral.

Its illegal here but I agree its one of the better ones to mark a kids memory and teach them not to do something until their old enough to understand Mr shiny fire is not your friend. You don't beat them till they bleed just one short sharp smack is usually enough from what I've read. I mean my mother used a wooden spoon on me and it didn't scar me for life.

Interestingly slimes are a fairly common threat in various sci fi settings. I recall one I red recently where there was this red stuff that a survey ship encountered on an asteroid and got covered. When the retrieval ships arrived they found a round red ball in place of a ship that tried to infect them (reaching out and covering the ship that got close, they burnt it off with the other ships engines). Being humans and thus lacking in common sense they took samples back to their lunar colony where it got loose. End of the story it was slowly spreading out from the lunar base and they were concerned if it reached the others they'd loose access to the outer systems as it was a necessary stop over point.

Jamie Charlan wrote:

Our table rarely keeps such details hidden from the group unless they plan on the inevitable occurring. Too high a chance of 'doppelganger SOP' occurring.

Well, from a more theoretical and less focused-fire standpoint, if a party is to trust each-other with <gear/lives/magicitems/lovedones/equipment/multiverse/weapons/souls/trea sure> as they so often are forced to do, being unwilling to share such basic information is a pretty big faux-pas, so you should at least do so with the same understanding as you have playing a CE assassin in a party with two paladins.

One time I got to play a Kitsune (I want that boon SlimGuage) I had a good reason to not trust at least one other player (he nearly got the entire party killed on one occasion trying to follow me in order to find out where a hermit lived after the group decided they'd let me do it as I'd already met him and he was a hermit who lived alone in a very dangerous area because he disliked people) and so I kept my true form secret and hidden. Of course I did play some pranks on the guy like changing his clothes for a very flattering girls set I had made, not that he appreciated the comments in the bar that night.

Those kind of slip ups e.g. ears appearing when happy in my opinion should only happen when young or playing a character with less emotional control. A dedicated, focused Kitsune isn't likely to have involuntary changes even when stressed any more than a mage has involuntarily fireballs firing at people when stressed.

Of course as I said this isn't universal and I can see some Kitsune having less control over their shape changes especially if they grow up in an area where its common and accepted so they don't actually see a reason not to have their tail pop out and wage when happy.

Another thing to consider is that there's a difference between my saying to mr murderhobo "Yes that +1 sword is X GP" and trying to pull that with the legally appointed king/duke/count who can call down a horde of murder hobos on me.

Remember you may be called on to provide magical services i.e. items as your tithe to your local lords.

I figure that tis more likley that the price breakdown is closer to . . .

Murderhoboes: 100% markup and party for a month.
Average customers: 10-20% markup and utility stock e.g. a self cleaning broom.
Friends: 0-5% mark up.
Nobles: 20-30% discount and an occasional freebie to keep myself in good stead.

There's also the fact as indicated your probably only going to actually sell items on an irregular basis so when you do make that profitable sell it has to see you through potentially months of no sales but still paying taxes.

I'm just wondering what would be common influential positions in a village council. They don't necessarily have to be official just a major voice in policy making. Any serious suggestions/thoughts greatly appreciated, what I have so far is . . .

Mayor: Head of village and responsible for its well being.

Magi: Spell caster of some description if present (not all villages would have them).

Priest: Voice of the gods.

Arms master: In charge of any weapons belonging to the village and head of its militia.

Guild Head: Appointed as a representative of any local guilds e.g. blacksmith, carpenter etc. Doubt there'd be enough for all roles (as there's likely only one of each) but a respected one the others trust to speak for them.

Adventurer: Like the magi not necessarily present but likely respected enough if ones retired there to run a tavern/farm/what have you.

Personally I'm of the opinion there's a wide body of spells out there like hygeine that adventurers never use but other elements of society do. A medieval magical society is a nice look at how magic can impact the day to day living in this era. For example . . .

Mage hand: Plant 1 row of seeds close to the one your doing yourself.
Cure light wounds: Stop bleeding, prevent infection, restore broken bones.
Mending: Fix torn clothes, farm equipment, sentimental items.
Prestitdigitation: Warms bath water, flavours food, festival entertainment, cleaning the house.
Purify food and water: Ritual by village priest to keep the well clean.
Know direction: Guide caravans through bad terrain or in inclement weather.
Detect animals: Makes hunting easier.

Each one for the low price of two chickens and a pig.

Then when you get to the nobles.

Plant Growth: Better crops, more food, more profit.
Detect Truth/Read Mind: More reliable judgements in court cases (whether fairly or in favour of the one who can do more for you).

As long as wizardly numbers are low and have to make things by hand you wont see Eberron but you will see healthier, more long lived or more oppressed peasants and more luxurious items that aren't normally available to the nobility.

Actually I'm looking more for general weather issues like dust or rain. Endure elements, planar adaptation and the like are good for extreme hazards but not for keeping you dry in a thunderstorm or from inhaling the dust kicked up by your caravan and that's what I'm after.

I'm just wondering resist elements protects you against heat/cold and there's control weather at higher levels. Are there other spells people know of that provide protection against different environmental effects like rain, dust, glare?

I'm looking for two things here first off I'd prefer actual spells designed to protect against non harmful but unpleasant effects like pouring rain or heavy dust clouds. Failing that creative uses of existing spells to provide protection e.g. windwall to protect against a sandstorm.

Well if we're suggesting ideas he was a scout in the army while on rotation in the castle he had a tryst with one of the kings youngest daughters maids. While there he heard a scream and being a loyal soldier rushed to her room along with the maid who thought her charge was having a nightmare where they found her torn remains and a werewolf standing over her. It smacked him aside and ripped the maids throat out leapt out the window picking himself up he followed. Meanwhile other guards arriving saw the blood covered scout escaping from the scene of a gizzly double murder. Firing after him they hit him in the knee with an arrow. Dazed, injured and feaverish he eventually collapse and trnasitioned to a full lycanthrope. Eventually awakening he found he'd been declared a highly dangerous traitor to be killed on sight. Now he adventures to find ...

1) A cure or way to control his curse.
2) Evidence of who was behind the death of the princess and who the lycanthrope was.

Some things are fine e.g. thus wont fit in the game what can we do instead. Dictating to a player that they change choices/actions to fit your ideal isn't. I had one GM I never played an elf with because he had a one true way approah and would overuse your choices ingane if they didn't fit.

When I use random generstors I always let my players choose if they want to come up with their own idea or use them. Some can create very strange results I remember one that generated a background for my character where I had a terrible secret, an evil twin brother, who died when young (gm decides is killed him) as a result of 3 random Rolls)

I now wantto.create a grumpy Irish dwarf who's grumpy because everyone thinks he's Scottish.

Same as the others as a gm I'll name items but as a player I only tend to do it to things I personally created.

kyrt-ryder wrote:

To each his own of course Liam, but '1 foot per rank with an object nearby' strikes me as being completely outside the scope of this thread and almost fits more inside the default Pathfinder game. Heck, Monks can 'slow fall' with a wall up to an eventually unlimited distance in PF core, and Slowfall is one of those typical 'worthless monk class features' that seldom see play and aren't really worth the ink their printed with.

When a simple level 1 spell lets you ignore 60 feet of fall damage per caster level, it's kind of ridiculous to think that being acrobatic can't enable you to better 'absorb the shock' of 5 feet per rank in the skill. (In fact, for my own games I'm likely going to go with 10 feet per rank.)

That wasn't meant to be an example of high level skill use just to illustrate the difference between tricky to do and supernatural effects. You can slow your fall by using a nearby surface through skilled acrobatics, you can't jump off the empire state building s just float to the ground by flipping, twisting and using your elite acrobatics skills. I do have high level skill uses but I figures I'd leave them till I can post the lot. Especially since based on another thread I want to edit them a bit.

Ill post some ideas when I'm not on a phone with a dying battery. However I will say I'm not a fan of the more impossible uses of skills I've seen here (function as featherfall, hold your breath forever) and would prefer more mundane ones. For example you can take no damage for one foot per rank so long as you are within arms reach of a wall/cliff/etc so if you fall off a 30' cliff you take no damage as you tap, hump and generally control your fall for the firsr say 15 feet (15 ranks) you control your fall, then it gets too much and you freefall the rest of the way. So someone with 15 ranks takes a 30 foot fall but only works out damage as if it were a 15 foot one.

Maybe take a page from D20 Modern and make profession a "business" skill. That is its just profession not profession - X and represents a knowledge of how to make money from various skills and abilities. So you have profession X ranks and your roll represents you making contacts, convicing people to buy what your selling, advertising campaigns, producing prducts for less than your selling them for etc. If you see what I mean? Only problem would be you need to figure out alternatives for things where it foes het used e.. profession. Sailor, profession soldier. I wouldn't combine it with perform, craft myself. However this way you can ha e craft cooking to make meals and profession to run the resturant. Someone with a high cooking can fail because they don't know how to rin a business while someone who produces rubbish can turn a huge profit because they know how to run a business.

I was looking back through some of my old suppliments and I noticed the entry that elven pregnancies last 2 years (from the days when an elf could live for up to 3,009 years depending on sub-race). Which got me wondering how long a pregnancy for a half breed would take. To use the above as an example a woman pregant with a half elf how long would it last that is would it be based off the mothers race, the fathers race or a mixture? Say its an woven woman would the pregnancy last 9 months, 9-18 months or 18 months?

Shain Edge wrote:
Liam Warner wrote:
5) On the subject of crafting if you can't do magic you can't make a magic item and thats it. Howerr I have taken...

Not by Game rules.

FEAT: Master Craftsman
Your superior crafting skills allow you to create simple magic items.

Prerequisites: 5 ranks in any Craft or Profession skill.

Benefit: Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level.You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Chapter 15). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.

Normal: Only spellcasters can qualify for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats.

Yes and I houserule that doesn't exist. If your a master craftsman you can make amazing things but you can't make something magical. There should have been an in my game at the start of that sentence I'm not sure where it went.

Just a few things posted from my phone.

1) No city expects to catch everyone they just look for the obvious to randomly check e.g the apprentice scanning the gates gets a ping and the guards check everyone more closely. Otherwise its wave, wave, wave "Excuse me sir if you'd just step over here a moment.

2) Any group of adventurers will usually be fairly obvious and checked more closely as to their reasons for entering.

3) Unless your charm person just wont work. Even if its stilled, silent, has no material components and isn't noticed by another guard "Hey he's casting a spell" it only makes the apprentice favourable to you it doesn't mean he's just going to wave you through without question. You need to interract with him and if you ask him to not do his job well did you charm all the other guards and can you complete your business before it wears off and they start questioning things?

4) People seem to be insisting on a medieval style setting which it isn't. Magic is common and its going to change the way things work. Your average serf in rural district 9 will be the same but at higher levels there are going to be changes. Longer lived, healthier, better informed etc. Sure the average baron can't necessarily stop a 15th level wizard but he's going to have plans to deal with magic.

It comes down to magic prevelance and attitude. Magic is present in these peoples lives but how much makes an important difference. You have the range from few mages, few items and the party magic user might be one of 4 in the kingdom up to Everton levels of magi-tech. I have a scale but don't want to post from my mobile. Then you have attitude whig ranges from magic is bad if you see a mage kill them, cut off their hands, remove their tounge and burn their body up to everyone does it and no one thinks about it (when I have access to my computer I'll poist the scales and how they can affect things.

5) On the subject of crafting if you can't do magic you can't make a magic item and thats it. Howerr I have taken expanded master crafting from sonewhere (true 20 I think) so you can make better masterwork items that do things like well made (bonus to damage),, ornate (bonus to diplomacy), durable (more hp) and at the other end of the scale can have penalties. I also am working on an alternate downtime system to earn more gold from profession checks if you have a prolonged period of time to do so as it represents a build up of contacts and reputation rather than the "Hi you don't know me but I made this sword do you want to buy it?"

The Block Knight wrote:
Liam Warner wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

That's true. but the capstone abilities are the reward for staying the course with a single class. I happen to LIKE the idea that multi-classers minmaxing the early levels for survivability cannot get those capstones.


It also hurts those who are playing to a concept e.g. my batle mage, 1 level ranger to qualify for 10 levels eldritch knight = effectively an 18th level arcanist who's still 11 levels away from a capstone ability in the arcanist class.
Liam Warner wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:
You do realize that the Prestige classes have their own Capstone abilities, right?
Yes although I've only looked at eldritch knight and it seems a fair bit less useful.

Perhaps, but regardless, that doesn't negate the fact that the Prestige Class still provides a Capstone. It's not a matter of "not getting the Arcanist Capstone", the fact is that the concept (i.e. battle mage via the Eldritch Knight route) still gets "a Capstone". That's sort of the point. And then there are people who feel that 90% of all Capstones aren't that great. So perhaps it's all moot.

So Capstones aside, I think the main thing people were getting at is that testing the later modules while going outside the boundaries of the module expectations (i.e. Max Level is 20, Max Tier is 10), doesn't really test the modules. Unless testing isn't the purpose of your NPC exercise.

THEN I really missed their point. This is my A phase run through to get a hang of the rules, what works, what I need to modify, what I should keep an eye out for. I'm not even running the fights just assuming best case scenario (why the group is 20/9 at the end of book 5 and I've decided to see how far they'll go). B phase I actually run the fights will not find the best way through. Then I'll consider running it for an actual group.

Lich: "Furthermore if I cast my spell on anything else such as this tree." FWOOOM "or this child."
Kitten: "MROW?"
Lich: "You wil note that they are affected its only when I cast on you."
Machinesmith dispells fireball
Lich: "They are dispelled and thus I again put to you that magic is real and it is merely you who are performing it while claiming otherwise thus your entire system of belief is funadamentally floored."
Kitten paws at Lich's robes "MROW, Mao, Mioao!"

Speaking of which machinesmiths can only counterspell every second sunday of the month that falls on February 29th in a leap year.

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Look on the bright side I just had to update my wiring rules and whoever was in charge of that amendment of changes was an utter moron. It contained such brillianace as . . .

Delete the sentence "43254 Cabling, control systems and inspection of fire safety mechanisms - fire" and replace it with "43254 Cabling, control systems and inspection of fire safety mechanisms." You'd think it be easier to say in the clause 43254 delete the word fire at the end of the sentence but nooooo. Then there were at least two paragraphs that were deleted to add the letters NZS to the standard applied so it became AS/NZS instead of just AS.

K177Y C47 wrote:
EvilPaladin wrote:
Magic Nerf: Any character with Atheist is gains immunity to divine magic. In addition, they gain immunity to arcane magic if they make a Perform[Disbelieve] check or bluff check v. their own sense motive each year to not believe in magic.

Funny thing that. the 3PP class called the Machinesmith (Machine Smith Linky) with the archetype technologist (LINKY 2.0) can actually "disprove" magic with science, counter magic, and gains SR vs magic because magic is a lie :p.

Oh god, imagine a Machinesmith vs a Lich?

Machinesmith: You cannot exist. By all laws of reality and physics, you are an impossibility and therefore, nothing more than a figment of my imagination.

Lich: .....

Lich: *fires Empowered fireball*

Machinesmith: *Disproves existance of fireball and counter-spells it* See... you are a lie...

Lich: *Facepalm*

Lich: "If the fireball was a lie . . . why did you need to disprove it. I put to you that stand there and do nothing whilst I cast these speells and we see if they work. If they are a lie you need do nothing to remain unharmed but if your actually working to disprove them then by default you believe in them and are merely twisting the hypothesis and the theorum to meet your own preconceived ideas of what makes up reality. Thus you are in fact doing magic and calling it by another name."

Satchmo wrote:
don't forget to make certain you have hands so you can cast spells with somatic components.

If you were in my game I houserule that somatic components DON'T require hands unless you start with them. That is to say a creature spell casts as appropriate for its natural form. So if a creature has paws, tentacles, wings, etc its somatic components are all designed with that in mind. Its why a human shapechanged into an octopus can't use somatic components without the wild shape feat (houseruled a bit) because he's used to having arms that rotate at the shoulders, bend at the elbow and possess five fingers not tentacles that bend and twist along their whole length and end in a point. Same with verbal a creature who naturally talks in in clicks and chirps casts with clicks and chirps but can't form them if shapechanged into a human due to different vocal cords.

Zhayne wrote:
I'm going to assume that this is satire/sarcasm, since the ACTUAL big broken stuff (the spells themselves) has remained untouched.

That's what I assumed.

In that case I propose . . .

Rogue: 1/2 the current skill points, can only sneak attack an unconcious or tied up target, can't disable device over 20, other classes 12.

Monk: Hmmmmm I've got nothing.

HaraldKlak wrote:
Liam Warner wrote:

Of course they get to take racial feats and archetypes at least I assume so bear in mind that the existing spell has a permanent duration change already at 9+ I'm just adding an instantaneous i.e. true change that needs to be reversed rather than dispelled if you can get 11+ on the table.

Actually, they do not, as it is. PAO is an polymorph spell, and they specifically does not change your type or subtype.

None the less, I don't feel too strongly about allowing or disallowing your suggestion. To me, if I were the GM, it would be a consideration of intended use. Unless the was some crazy powerful use in it, I would be inclined to allow it.

I was about to say, that flavorwise I don't see a polymorph spell as instantaneous, but then I found Half-Blood Extraction, which specifically changes a race.

Really so how does that work exactly? I mean say I cast polymorph any object on you and permanently turned you into an elf shouldn't you have access to any and all elf abilities until it was dispelled? Not disagreeing just don't recall seeing that rule and in a case like this it seems to be a problem when your permanently an elf but your not for type/subtype? I know it says in the transmutation section that you don't get all the abilities but it just makes no sense to me when your permanently changed that you don't get them.

I don't really have a specific use in mind I just don't like the fact that at highest levels (duration factor not class, very limited changes really) its a permanent effect and not an instantaneous one. Either way you are altered forever effectively its just that with the exisitng one it can be dispelled, stops if you enter an anti-magic zone, radiates magic whereas with my altered one it can only be reversed as it is what you are now. I'd be less bothered if it always had a duration even if it was measured in days/months but since you can make a permanent change I'd rather it was a proper change and not an ongoing effect. It would also help with the above problem, if you are now an elf you are an elf with all the benefits and drawbacks. If you get changed again into something else you lose the elf abilities (reselecting racial feats and the like).

Took a look at half blood extraction level 5, proper permanent change form half orc to orc so I think this effect is balanced then (official lower level spell does similar) thanks.

Zhayne wrote:
I have no idea what any of those things are, but ... if the ritual can turn him into a hag, why can't it change his gender to match?

+1 there are already gender changing spells and items so why not. If she's conducting an experiment she wont really care if he objects to the hagification and maybe she'll even took him into it in exchange for power.

Old coot jokes . . . so tempting "Get outa my swamp you young adventurers."

@Remco Sommeling
Why though? It is an 8th level spell and reincarnate is only 4 while limited wish is 7. This one admitedly gives you more control but the only difference between this and the original polymorph any object is that its gone from dispellable to non-dispellable at the highest level, it can still be reversed and getting an instantaneous change is very hard.

Of course they get to take racial feats and archetypes at least I assume so bear in mind that the existing spell has a permanent duration change already at 9+ I'm just adding an instantaneous i.e. true change that needs to be reversed rather than dispelled if you can get 11+ on the table.

another_mage wrote:
Liam Warner wrote:
Hmmm ok not what I was after, badly worded question. That does change the box size but not the text its just more spread out now. I still can't read it easily.

Which OS (Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, iOS, etc.) and browser (IE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera, etc.) are you using to browse the site and write replies?

In Firefox, I can think of two things that might be making your text unreadable:

1. Font Configuration
* Under Edit -> Preferences there is a tab Content
* In the Content tab there is a section labeled Fonts & Colors, select the Advanced... button.
* In the Advanced... button dialog, there are configuration options for your fonts, Proportional, Serif, Sans-serif, and Monospace.
* The textarea for writing a response is typically this "Monospace" configuration. You can increase the size by selecting a larger size from the drop down on the right hand side.

2. Page Zoom
* Under View -> Zoom, the sub-menu has several options: Zoom In, Zoom Out, Reset, Zoom Text Only
* If you've previously (and perhaps unwittingly) hit Zoom Out, your text may appear terribly small.
* Try selecting Reset (or holding down Control and pushing the number key 0) to bring the text back to it's default zoom.

Let us know what browser you're using and we may be able to help more.

Windows 7, Firefox.

Thing is its just on the reply on regular forum browisng the fonts just fine. May have been scaled fonts I have had problems with this mouse sending me back a page as there's a button on the side I can't turn off. Scrolling in worked nicely thank you, was worried it would change everything but seems its only affected the post page.

Liam Warner wrote:

I was looking at Polymorph any Object and I'm not really a fan of the permanent duration as its effectively an ongoing spell that can be dispelled. So I was wondering would it be balanced to just add another category specifically . . .

Duration Value: 9
Duration: Permanent
Example: Mnaticore to Shrew

remains as is except its now just 9 not 9+ and then above that we get . . .

Duration: 11+
Duration: Instantaneous
Exmaple: Human to Elf

Meaning if you get 11, 12 or 13 on the factor table (which does limit the changes stil) the change is instantaneous and thus can't be dispelled. It can obviously be undone by another casting but the object changed is now effectrively a new object not one under the ongoing effects of a spell if you see what I mean?

I'll take that as a yes.

I was looking at Polymorph any Object and I'm not really a fan of the permanent duration as its effectively an ongoing spell that can be dispelled. So I was wondering would it be balanced to just add another category specifically . . .

Duration Value: 9
Duration: Permanent
Example: Mnaticore to Shrew

remains as is except its now just 9 not 9+ and then above that we get . . .

Duration: 11+
Duration: Instantaneous
Exmaple: Human to Elf

Meaning if you get 11, 12 or 13 on the factor table (which does limit the changes stil) the change is instantaneous and thus can't be dispelled. It can obviously be undone by another casting but the object changed is now effectrively a new object not one under the ongoing effects of a spell if you see what I mean?

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Ashram wrote:
In my games, adamantine is black and mithral is basically chrome-colored. Then again, I remember some vague rules from 3.5 allowing you to magically dye an item whatever color you want when you make it magical.


"Here's your armour Ronald the Mcho."
"Its pink."
"Fuschia actually."
"I'm not wearing pink armour."
"Well I'm not enchanting another one, I told you magic isn't always precictable."

insaneogeddon wrote:

If you go back to Gary Gygaxs own 'Gord the Rogue' books it was sky blue in color but maybe thats an ?oearth? greyhawk thing..

but thats considered to be poetic licence as

In drow supplements it was black with a green/purple hue. As drow have some serious pull I suppose it stuck.. now plain boring black!

In the faerun "Volo's guide to all things magical" they spent the most effort defining it and there its "Adamant: This is the pure metal form of the hard, jet-black ferromagnetic ore known as adamantite, from which the famous alloy adamantine is made. Adamantine is black, but has a clear green sheen in candlelight-a sheen that sharpens to purple-white under the light given off by most magical radiances and by will-o'-wisps.

Pre-that however they had made some efforts to define it:

In dragon #36 its "a blue cube dotted with a myriad of bright little specks that looked like imprisoned stars"

There is also an alloy called adamanite in dragon #17, that's "55% black, 25% dark blue, 20% dark green"

So the colour depnhds on what illuminates it?

Karl Hammarhand wrote:
5-7000 years, I want to see some history. Then I get home and have the power to ressurect my dead friends and family, cure disease, end suffering on a scale unimaginable now. Yeah, I'd take that ride.

around 1000 AD tops. If you get the sex change 2nd level spell move down the road and call yourself Willamina I'm sure you'll find being a girl gives you some very different experiences than being a guy in those days especially if the local lord takes a fancy to you.

Liam Warner wrote:
Avatar-1 wrote:
Just drag the bottom-right corner. It's still a bit broken (it used to resize both left and right when you expanded it, rather than only to the right), but it still helps.
Hmmm ok not what I was after, badly worded question. That does change the box size but not the text its just more spread out now. I still can't read it easily.


No other idea?

Ellis Mirari wrote:

This really doesn't seem like much of a trade to me. I would have entire lifetimes to master virtually every art and the chance to try everything I could possibly think of without any real risk (I could get my head cut off by a guillotine, just to see if it's as painless as they claimed).

Gaining the ability to cast spells not-withstanding (and I would certainly go in Trickery-themed witch), I would return with skills and knowledge that not a SINGLE living human possessed (unless we're all getting this deal in the same universe, in which case we all will now have to fight to the death with swords).

I wouldn't go back all the way:200-300 years should do the trick. Enough for me to get Major Image and experience everything I can think to. Even at just 6th level, I'm STILL more powerful than any other human being alive. Going longer for more levels isn't worth it: it'd just be "winning more", and after a few centuries I would surely get bored.

Its what got me thinking about this in the first place. For some its a great deal while for others its horrble (also why I was curious how other factos e.g. not getting power till you reach the current date, onlyh getting mythic etc would affect your choices). I don't really care what people would want to be only whether they as in YOU the person you are now not some character in a game would take the deal. Would you never see your familiy, friends for hundreds of years in exchange for power you couldn't get otherwwise?

Like most deals it depends on the person offer say 6/1 to a regular person in exchange for their HAVING to live the remaining years as the opposite sex and its a dubious trade, make teh same offer to a transgendered person and it leaves them wondering what the price is meant to be.

I think I'll need to make another thread in a few months where I stipulate any power gained is gained after you get back andyou need to live through the centuries with only what you know/can do now and learn over that time. Maybe throw in enough money to live on for a few weeks, speaking the local language. resurection if killed and healing from anythjing in time (normal healing rate i.e. a broken arm takes months to heal but you will eventually recover from antyhing regrow limbs, restore nerve damage etc).; Anything else like even 1 level in a martial class of choice is too open to abuse it seems.

I do think a lot of peoople who are leaping at the centuries of knowledge don't really understand just how much of a burden that long a time period would be (althoguh giving X levels at the start seems to avoid a lot of the problems).

MCABC wrote:

For the wild arcana ability. If you decided to apply metamagic feats. Would that increase the casting time of the spell to become a full round action?

IE, in 1 turn could I:
1) Move
2) Cast a quickened spell
3) Cast a spell using wild arcana and apply metamagic feats

Also, would this answer be different if i was a wizard or sorcerer?

Wild Arcana (Su): As a standard action, you can expend one use of mythic power to cast any one arcane spell without expending a prepared spell or spell slot. The spell must be on one of your arcane class spell lists, must be of a level that you can cast with that arcane spellcasting class, and must have a casting time of "1 standard action" (or less). You don’t need to have the spell prepared, nor does it need to be on your list of spells known. When casting a spell in this way, you treat your caster level as 2 levels higher for the purpose of any effect dependent on level. You can apply any metamagic feats you know to this spell, but its total adjusted level can’t be greater than that of the highest-level arcane spell you can cast from that spellcasting class.

I'd say yes.

KahnyaGnorc wrote:

I'd say a wooden longsword would just go down a die in damage. 1d6, 19-20/x2 Slashing.

Similarly, a metal club would go up one damage die.

Isn't a metal club a mace?

gnoams wrote:

Well alternatively you can give them class levels or advance them.

This could make for a funny campaign setting. You play as monsters hiding away in a world where all the humans are super high level adventures

Sounds like the real world.

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Majuba wrote:
For anyone (like the OP) who cares about the original question of comparability and compatibility of mythic vs. divine (vs. epic):
  • No, Mythic is not equivalent to Divine Ranks - far from. Similar theme, vastly different approach and power level.
  • Mythic is roughly comparable in power to Epic levels. Epic feats give close to mythic abilities, but don't come every level, while hp/skills/etc do.
  • Epic is equivalent to divine ranks (written at roughly the same time), but on a much smaller scale. As someone said, divine salient abilities are like 3-5 feats, but usually 3-5 epic feats.
  • Overall, power ratio of Epic:Mythic:Divine, I'd say 2:3:10

I am running Slumbering Tsar, which will eventually get into epic levels, and I've been considering allowing a choice between epic and mythic. If I do, should be interesting to see what people pick.
** spoiler omitted **

They came under my etc. My point is that Epic is designed to keep improving your character past 20 which mythic does very, very poorly if at all while on the other hand Mythic can be layered quite well (assuming game is designed for it) from level 1 while Epic doesn't work there at all. I stand by my statement that Mythic and Epic rules are too very different things.

Entirely off topic but I want that gamer power sooooo many possibilities and what does he mean he doesn't need luck I always raise it by 1 per level and in real life having good luck is even more important.

True there are options which is why I didn't want to get too specific about what happens next and just see if people would take the deal.

Arctic Sphinx wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Arctic Sphinx wrote:

Assuming psionic classes are totally off the table, I'd go with 20 levels of Sorcerer (Draconic Bloodline) and 10 MR (archmage path).

I don't think the long wait is that much of an issue in the grand scheme of things.

Save for the minor detail that you'd most likely wind up a complete sociopath by the end of the process.
Eh. I like to think I'm pretty well-adjusted. Besides, even if I become a sociopath, I doubt I'd be much worse than the average politician, anyway.

They say one of the signs of madness is not believing your mad in the first place.

As for when t doesn't really matter I was assuming when you took the deal but either works.

Again no need to say what you'll be or take it to my other thread on that matter but no psionic classes aren't off the table.

Kryzbyn wrote:

I think I'd go 20 Druid or Cleric/10 MR.

Probably druid.

A level 20 anything isn't going to be threatened by the Spanish Inquisition...

"we've come to arrest you!"
<morphs into an elder earth elemental>

No need to say what you'd be (I have a thread for that) just that you'd take the full 900 years for max level.

williamoak wrote:

As a side note liam: while you do not the possibility of accusations of witchcraft, you are much less likely to have problems if you are constantly traveling than otherwise. You'll never BE somewhere long enough for it (IE immortality) to be a problem. Also, the "main" dangers of the black plague, constant war, etc. IS NOT A PROBLEM! At all. You can easily survive. Heck, even 1000 years in an oubliette. Not like you need to breathe.

That's why I tend to dislike speculative, overly-vague scenarios. There is always holes.

Well all I'm really after here is your inital response of yes you would take the power evertyhing else is sort of eemrging from response to posts. I'm just curious if peopel were offered power in exchange for living through several centuries of history would they take it. Maybe they run afoul of hte inquisition and spend 221 years in prison, maybe they found an empire and rule for centuries its beyond the scope of the question. We can't predict the future so all I'd like to know is whether people would take the power (levels, mythic ranks, both) in exchange for being seperated from everyone they know for a prolonged period of time the more powerful they wish to be the longer the period is.

williamoak wrote:

The problem is still that we do not currently have class levels, nor HP, nor anything else game related. So we would need at least one level in something (plus relevant stats) before this could happen.

For an interesting look at how combining game/real world can work, check out the manhwa "the gamer", I quite like it.

As I said the mechanical class abilities are converted to a "real world" equivilent e.g. +20 BAB to an extensive knowledge of fighting techniques or in this case you'd be like Rasputin, black beard, trotsky and are ridiculously hard to kill.

Stabbed, poisoned, shot (multiple times), clubbed, dumped in a river and finally died from Hypothermia.

Hit with a poison dart, stabbed in the face with a spear, stabbed and beaten but didn't finally die till he was sure his men made it to safety.

Gabriel Garcia Moreno

Had his kneck, head and brain sliced through with a mechete and his left arm and right hand cut off, shot six times in the chest and slashed another 14 times before falling and writing "God does not die" in his own blood then after the attackers fled survived another 15 minutes before succumbing to his wounds.

I don't underestimate the appeal of time travel I just am dubious about the appeal of living through the black plague like it or not or spending several centuries travelling from site to site for a couple of weeks sight seeing or even worse being locked up in an Oubliette for a prolonged period of time because the ruling body/religion deemed you a demon/monster/witch and literally locked you up and threw away the key.

I am trying to be clear about the situation but people keep coming up with stuff I didn't anticipate. I mean take the first response of using a stasis spell to skip the centuries when I thought I'd been clear living through them was part of the price. Obviously not so I tried to reclarify it what I have in mind is to me simple I'm just obviously not getting it across.

As I said in my post basic premise if you live (as in on earth, active, awake, LIVING those years in exchange for power). I'm just offering up several different scnearios to see which ones people would take the offer on. Basic premise is class levels no mythic but if you wouldn't take that would you take class levels and mythic? If you would take that would you hesitate if you get mythic but no class levels or nothing but you and your currently exisitng skills.

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