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Liam Warner's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,161 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 1 alias.


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Just wanted to point out higher level creatures particularly demons could only be hurt with a +3 or +5 weapon not resistant but totally immune. You could wale on that wolfwere all day long but if your weapon was +2 you could not hurt it. There's also the immune to magic and normal weapons spells. Cast both and you laugh at the puny fighters attacks, well until the immunity to magic weapons runs out I'm a few rounds.

RavenStarver wrote:

Now I'm reminded of Slayers and how the bandits always start wetting themselves as soon as they figure out who the characters are.

Lina Inverse, the "Bandit Killer"

I wouldn't want to fight people who have a reputation for brutally slaughtering their foes.

I was thinking about her and the way even dragons get nervous near her myself.

As for the question you have bandits like robin hood high level rebellious against an usurper to the crown but without the power to Doo more than help where he can. Then you've got ones like the bandits in Paksenarion who are highly skilled but only attacking out of fear of the evil beings who've enslaved them.

One mod I liked in Baldurs gate added a reputation tracker and when it got high enough the random muggers you encounter in the base game run away screaming in terror after recognising you.

Sorry to clarify on that 3rd one they don't have to make the same wish. For instance you wish for a thousand gold, your friend wishes for good hewlth and your third friend wishes to be a beautiful woman. All 3 of you get a thousand gold, good health and become beautiful women.

Fine as long as you trust each other but you really want to be sure the 3rd person won't change their wish either due to trickery or absent mindedness.

I'm just wondering if your character found one of the 3 monkeys would they use them? Pick your favourite character/s and answer yes or no for each one with details of why?

I was going over older stuff of mine recently and stumbled across these which I never got a chance to use in a game they were basically cursed versions of the ring of 3 wishes.

Jade monkey
Grants 2 of your wishes and a randomly selected one to the next person to use I while you get one of the previous users wishes instead.

Obsidian Monkey
Grants you 3 wishes and twice what you wishes for to the person you hate most be aware it may be a subconscious resentment of someone your not even aware of.

Ivory Monkey
Requires 3 people to make a wish at the same timme while holding it and grants all 3 to each person.

Quite a few of us aren't arguing the lesser (penalties to state as a result of 2 age categories bellow the normal starting one -4 or 16 int until they grow up) so much as the hamsttimging and unnecessary complications if making someone play the very generic Npc classes on top of that.

Also to the girl saying she's in her mid twenties but looks 10ish are you dating a guy named Colin by any chance?

I always read the as being a true Shapeshift. Their transformation is a true shift, realistic likeness says when they use their ability they can TAKE the form of a specific individual so to me that means they can turn into whoever they like.

Also what's that about Kitsune being PFS legal do in need a. Boon or Cann I just take them now?

Kelsey Arwen MacAilbert wrote:
Vagabonds. wrote:

So, recently, while attempting to sign up for a campaign online, I proposed a 11 year old half-Elf Wizard who taught herself magic from the ground up from the age of six (Int 20), but was denied due to her being too young, and said that if I wanted to play a child, I would have to use the Young Characters ruleset.

This, predictably, is annoying, primarily due to forcing me to take NPC class levels, rather than actual wizard levels. My question is, should DM's enforce the child ruleset on their players?

A note: I would be the only child there.

To be brutally honest, I would never allow a child PC in the first place. Given that I am an anime fan who mixes some of that medium into my house rules and setting, I forsee somebody making a child character eventually, which is why I'm pre-empting that request by putting a minimum character age of 20 into my house rule list. I just don't feel comfortable GMing for the sorts of characters who would actually allow a child to accompany them into combat. When children get into fights, they get hurt or killed, and I want that taken seriously, not played off as something that isn't a gigantic problem.

20 seems a bit high since several classes as per the rules can start at 16 and as an above poster said in this world there's a being orphaned and taken willingly or otherwise as a member of their group.

That said I personally wouldn't want a character this young in my game but then again I start with the assumption everyone's an adult and modify stats accordingly. So you take your point buy, modify as per your race then modify as per your age. In this case I'd speak to your GM and see if he's willing to compromise on the NPC levels, maybe offer to make your character a little older. Even 15/16 equilvilnet age for a wizard is prodigy level. Otherwise if he just doesn't want a child character there's not much you can do as gm's get the final call on theiir worlds.


It was a joke based on animal mating seasons and going into heat regardless of how you look, shift work makes me tired and then I get a little warped.


The value of the diamond is required by the spell if they're relatively cheap imagine the size/quality of the one your purchasing to power a spell that requires a 20k one.


Not something I really thought about . . .after thinking about it (not that you can tell since you didn't see me typing grin) I'd probably go off your actual gender regardless of surgery/hormone therapy your still an XX/XY genome so you flip to the other and look as appropriate for your new/current species. I figure the need to adapt is counterweighed by the years of having to deal with being the wrong sex. Only difference is you wouldn't be trying to change back.


Shapeshift/polymorph also work for that admitedly not as easily as a druids but still the options there.

Depends what you mean by reincarnation as I don't know which ability/feat/class option your referring to there or how your using it I can't say if it would be cheating or not.

As for the animal companion I'm reminded of a comic where a guy gets turned into his female elven ranger character by a mysterious magical box a friend was using as a GM prop. He was saving up for an "improved companion" in game but as a result of the transformation wound up with a squirrel. She warmed up to it a lot more when she found out she was now a vegetarian due to being an Elf (coudln't stomach the fast food hamburgers her friends bought) and it brought her an apple.

You know what they say about good intentions, something that applies to all the other people who'd be using their new powers to help others.


Again a bit outside the scope and I said I wouldn't comment on it before as everyone has different systems, I suppose however if pressed it could be a roll randomly (my systems 4d6 drop the lowest and roll up 3 sets of stats then pick one) or take the 15 point buy. Mediocrity, minmaxing or really good/bad options for all.

I imagine till you got used to using the tail for balance and keeping the wings folded up you'd trip over a lot.

I'm not limiting feats/abilities/races beyond the restrictions already in place i.e. no home brewed feat of broken power situations. If they're in an official source (core, splatbook which admitedly often is broken or 3rd party) and don't contravene anything else they're fine.

Wrath wrote:
Lucy_Valentine wrote:
shadowkras wrote:
And unless they have some trauma against women, they shouldnt rush head in against mages or wizards.

I think it's really great when we start grouping "women" in with "mages" on the list of "people who are easy to kill and need protecting". Sexism is just so cool! And it's so nice to see that the work paizo put into being inclusive get completely wasted!


I think he was referencing earlier posts about wizards wearing robes and people calling them dresses.

However, you have a valid point.

I assumed the same since it was in regards to a post that also included a whole number of other individuals e.g merchants and monks, one of whom would need protecting and the other would tear (in theory) their attacker apart. Of course I have been reading Onidere where a cute little blond girl who generally wears dresses and miniskirts is capable of literally splitting a building in two with the air pressure from her attacks.

@Third Mind

Eschew materials is only for items less than a GP so fairly common anyway (and I know where there are entire colonies of bats grin). Admitedly the spells requiring a 20kgp diamond are a lot harder to get the components for but then again outside of adventurers they'd be harder for wizards in golarion too.


Until the spring mating season anyway, seriously if your trying to appear male your better off taking realistic likeness and shapeshifting into an exact duplicate of the person you used to be.


Building your own kingdom, interesting. Raises the question would you have an heir you'd be leaving when you came back or would you be going for one of the advisor slots so the kingdoms not left leaderless when you finish it?

The dark jewels trilogy did this rather well acutally with their powers one on one the blood (magic users) could kill any landen (non magic user) easily but enough of them could bring down anyone in time simply by drawing them out and forcing them to expend all their power. Plus of course magic doesn't necessarily protect you from bobbytraps or enemies who have their own casters.


Like I said given the kinds of powers people are getting I'm fairly sure there'd be some form of registering set up fairly quickly even if it was only an equivilent to the medical licensing board. Although at least one person has been stoned to death for witchcraft in recent years so who knows how humanity would react as a whole to this.

This is also part of why I said no items are given/brought back from AP's because it would mean there'd be a large market at least at first for items. I mean I can see police being willing to spend a fortune on protection from bullet enhancements on their vests. Of course given the number risking their lives on an AP even allowing items may not make that large a difference.

No problem I tend to latch onto things and gnaw as well. So you'd take the AP if you could return at any time what if you had to complete it to return?

Whoops missed that entirely I'd say yes to a psion offhand but they do need to be a full psychic class i.e. reach their equivilent of 9th level spells.


In real life we don't have levels so what happens is you get given the equivilent of these levels in a class. For the sake of argument say you were a lvl 3 commoner right now (kid in school) they multiclass to a 1st/3rd/8th level wizard/sorcerer/cleric and gain those abilities. If your taking the AP only the levels taken during that are counted as levels.

Of course I agree a lot of magical effects can be done cheaper and easier with current technologies but that's where people would be researching new spells that work with it (track hacking for example) and some utility spells would be worth a lot of money to the person knowing them even a simple mending spell used to repair items of sentimental value like a christmas ornament that a kid smashed could bring in some money, water breathing or planetary adapaption for hostile environements and of course if anyone manages to find a way to mass produce magic items (like Eberrons creation forges) well sky's the limit.

@Rynjin and Dexion1619

Remember pathfinder isn't really based around handguns and the like they're there but not necessarily a heavy part of the stytem. Plus your dealing with the whole thing about real life vs game systems. Best way to compare if your doing that is to look at a system that assumes both magic and modern tech coexist say D20 modern. A handgun does 2d4 to 2d8 (desert eagle) damage. So a magic missle starts off slightly worse than a lower powered gun (1 missle at d4 +1 per level with homing) but at higher levels (multiple missles at d4 + up to 15) can hit as hard as a desert eagle. Not to mention the massive damage rules so it doesn't matter if you have 500 hp take enough damage in one hit and you can be instantly killed.


Actually I deliberately didn't put a cap on the race for that reason. I admit I wasn't thinking about things like solars at the time and thought age would serve as a decent limitation. 1% is around 60 million people currently and would make a fairly big impact on society especially with long lived beings and their starting to have kids.

Not just mutant registration acts either imagine if say 500 or so became Kitsune. That's a low enough number to be considered an endangered species which could introduce all sorts of preservation rulings like their not being allowed to work in dangerous fields, arranged meetings in the hopes they'll pair up and have kids and the like.

Still I suppose I could introduce say a CR equivilent to your level e.g. if your race is CR 8 you also need to become the oppsoite sex and get no class levels hmmmmm given how eager people seem to be to find ways to game the system rather than picking based on what they'd like to be I think that could work.

Impact on society is interesting though to speculate about.


So new basic rules

1) No items granted or allowed to be brought back as stated earlier.
2) Your racial CR (allowing for age variations) is taken out of the level you become e.g. lvl 8 added you can take X levels of a full class as stated and Y levels racial adjustment up to a totlal of 8 if it would raise you above that you can't be that race.

Extra question
Would your race change if the CR cap wasn't in place?

AndIMustMask wrote:
holy mother of necromancy, batman!

Whoops didn't look at the date, could have sworn this was on the first page when I was browsing threads.

AndIMustMask wrote:

@sandal and zodiac: that's literally the only thing that makes PrCs like eldritch knight or mystic theurge even worth looking at. otherwise the magus outclasses the EK pretty much entirely (and with less paperwork involved), and MT is a poor stunted little man who never accomplishes anything before level 14+ (see: when most adventures are over and done with).

it makes arcane archer and arcane trickster (iirc) worth considering more as well, along with a great many others that you would need to otherwise sink levels and levels into something that's only marginally good, if that.

Actually personally I'd take the hit if I could get in a game going high enough I could multi-class into EK simply because of the fact that a magus for all their nifty abilities don't get higher than 6th level spells. An EK even with the level hit will get you 9th level spells in the end and a decent amount of 7/8th level ones. Really Magus and EK are to me flipped sides of a coin with the magus being more martialy and the EK more magically focused.

The merchants holding a rusty metal stuff with a green gem on top because he was trying to sell it to the magic user in mithril chainmail with a sword (fighter, wizard, eldrithc knight) when the attack came.

Mostly right,

Yes you'd get the spellbook I was thinking more of magical items for that restriction. You don't get the associated casting stat . . .

1) If you take the AP you can change your abilities.
2) If you don't you retain your current abilities (whatever they are) however you can add extra stat points level as appropriate e.g +1 to a stat of your choice, presumably making you a little more intelligent. Otherwise yes that's correct and unless your looking at Mithril armour or the like most components would be available. At least I don't recall any that would be a problem for general casting spiders legs, rods of amber, bat guano all common in our world.

About the AP that risk was why I specified the full thing must be finished to return. I was originally thinking of allowing the option of leaving at any point but I decided against it. I do imagine more people would be taking the AP if they had an ability to give up and return at any point. Still I decided against that as it would require too many extra rules to avoid abuse. For one thing the mythic immortality can be taken at tier 1 I believe which would be given around lvl 6 probably.

As for "levelling up" I was thinking more real life i.e. you don't earn xp for killing things you learn new skills the same way you always have, study and practice. Just like a musician gets better by studying and practicing their instrument you'd get better by studying magical theory and practicing your spellcasting. You wont have levels just magical theory and knowledge. You want to learn a 9th level spell from a someone who came back? Well you need enough knowledge (probably spellcraft and knowledge arcane) to understand it. Rather like trying to learn high level theoretical maths if you don't have the basics your out of luck and how quickly you can learn those basics depends on the person however that's a bit outside the scope of what I was after.

Emerald Eydis wrote:

Got to love how it seems to be unreasonable when the majority of prestige classes offer no reduction in Spell Casting Level.

Just was looking for something to take the edge off of multiclassing, for instance the druid can mitigate her own loss of progression for the Animal Companion with Boon Companion.

Or if not a straight Spellcaster Level increase I was hoping maybe Pathfinder had something like the Epic 3.5 feat Improved Spell Capacity. At least then I would gain a couple slots due to having an Arcane School.

While I do love how Pathfinder empowered Single class characters, I feel it did at the cost of the concept of prestige classes. But hey maybe I am wrong here.

I agree with you actually I like the idea of Ranger 1, Arcanist 9, eldritch knight 10 but that actually puts me 2 levels behind in spellcasting. If I take a wizard I'm still losing a level because of that first level of eldritch knight. Still I can see the other side of the coin it just hurts with some specific classes.

Sorry if that wasn't clear I'm not saying there's no way to multi-class/prestige class I'm saying if you take the 1, 3, 8 option you only get the levels from a single class e.g. wizard. Of course AFTER you get that you could find say a cleric to learn from. The difference being what your given vs what you can learn later if that helps?

One of the races from the game e.g elf, orc, green slime. It is quite literally you transform on a genetic level into that creature. As I said earlier in the thread its not real world african, american, chinese etc its the games fantasy world races.

Again all your phsyical records change to reflect your new race e.g family adopts first artifical lifeform or gives birth to a baby fox-girl. NO MEMORIES ARE ALTERED only the documentation and records.

The adventure paths are essentially prewritten campaigns for people to undertake e.g. skull and shackles is about your becoming a pirate lord and pillaging the high seas. They usually wind up anywhere from lvl 13 to 20/10. Since I wanted people to choose based on their preferences I just scaled them all up to match the highest one which is wrath of the righteous's final levels. That is level 20 with 10 mythic tiers. Mythic tiers are an extra power up that offers various special abilities e.g. harder to kill, able to leap huge distances, fly between the stars, make everyone forget you ever existed, not need to sleep, not need a spellbook and the like. If you don't know anything about the AP's its not really important beyond knowing that whichever one you choose you'll wind up at the same maximum level.

With regards to how it works for time think the chronicles of Narnia you go, adventure and then return in your new body with new abilties to the time/place you were before. So if you for example choose kingmaker you might have 30-40 years of experiences and find it hard to relate to the people who knew the person you used to be. Yes it all happens at once for example at a party someone may flicker and then fall to the floor dead with horrible injuries because they tried to fight a Jaberwocky while drunk while another may suddenly find they don't have a lot in common with their schoolfriends because they aren't a 15 year old but rather a 50 year old mentally after growing up over several decades fighting for their kingdom.


No your quite capable of "levelling" not that it would really apply but there's nothing stopping you from continuing to learn and improve this is more of an addition to what you can do now.


Non gamers get as much information as they ask for, if they don't ask then they don't get anything. Yes they do have to choose whether they want it or not but that's what the I stay human/X and get level 1 option is for. I assume your staying level 1 as you made no mention of changing sex and the race was iffy. Yes you still look like you would if you were born that race. So for one like elves you'd still be you just with pupiless eyes and huge ears maybe a slightly different body shape on the other hand if you took say a Rakasa you'd find that most people don't see the family resemblance beneath the fur however its still there and someone familiar with the race would see your resemblance to your family.


Frankly I imagine that some form of distribution scheme would eventually crop up if only because governments and businesses would see huge profits/secutiry requirements behind the new powers cropping up especially if mages start researching new spells for the mody environment. I mean really when world governments realize that anyone can teleport anything directly into their parliment unless its protected a lot of things would change.


I was thinking you age/de-age to the equivilent stage for that race at your current age hence my comment earlier about dragons. Still the way I see it if your taking an elf to live longer gaining an extra X years of childhood/teenagedom probably isn't so bad a part of the bargain. Its no more inexplecable than you suddenly transforming into another species afterall. However I'm not really trying to punish people so if you want to become an adult elf and lose the equivilent of decades off your new lifespan that's up to you.

Since I'm not trying to balance this for an actual game (grin) almost anythings allowed race wise. unstatted or 3rd party is fine just no house race of +1 billion to everything, automatically returns from the dead blah blah blah. Yes you can be a dragon, drider or aboleth in fact one person already has taken the dragon option. Of course you can't take 50 different races half breeds or those with a minor ancestral touch as you can get in the current rules (half-elf, bloodline etc).


As I said the race/sex change is only ongoing as it were for the people risking an AP for those choosing to remain on our world you can immediately go about trying to change it back you just have to deal with the lifetimes worth of records saying that's who your meant to be. So while you could research a spell/build an item to turn you back to a male form as far as your countries concerned you'd be a transexual.

Components would remain what they are but bat guano is bat guano, an amber rod is an amber rod, a 20k gp diamond is a great huge valuable diamond. For rare precious materials that don't exist here e.g. mithril well that's what planeshift and the plane of earth is for. Very few spells actually require any weird components though.

It's 1 you still are on the books as attending a single sex highschool it'd just be a girls only one somewhere else or boys if your a girl and none there would remember that person attending while your original school does but has no records to prove it. Your So remembers the original version of you but any photographs the two of you took would shift to show two people of the same sex. Only physical records are changed and they're changed to keep things as close to the original as possible with no concern for anyone's preferences. However no memories are altered so unless you call your highschool or they have a reason to look up old records they wouldn't even know you'd changed if that makes it clearer. The point is that Bob or Barbara had a full set of records backing up their new existence however they'd have to convince their family of the changes (backed up by the new records)

To address your questions (had to think about It)

No gear as stated earlier, skills/spells and if your high enough level increases + racial modifications for the ones just taking the 1, 3 or 8 option for those risking the adventure path I'd say allow them to rebuild attributes or keep their own. I won't suggest a method though as everyone's different. Again no gear can be kept from an AP just things like sanctuary from the mythic archmage path and they get rebuilt when you return. Everyone starts off with just knowledge. So yes you can craft items, scribe scrolls etc but you have to do them you don't automatically get any of the actual physical items., you need to find your own Bat Guano

Divine classes depend on the class but generally if their expectated to follow/worship a god they need to worship/follow a god. As I said if your staying all levels come from one class so no prestige classesbut you could for example take the Blood arcanist variant of he arcanist as it's a full caster single class. if you take the Ap your free to multicast as desired. Similarly yes you can take alternate racial traits.

True it's still a little surprising to me that people seek to have gone from this build kills all to if they're powered up to challenge me the build may not be good enough. Fair point about the lower levels though.

Posting on the phone while being bounced around the worktrucks tricky though so I may add more tomorrow in regard to your questions.

Quick question would it change anyone's choices if you got WBL to purchase items (barring race/sex changing ones) If you stayed and anything you acquired in an AP in reason (you can't bring 5000 acres unless its in a private demiplane like the harrow bloodline gives)

Or as mentioned you've charged up to a monk, magus or illusioned fighter.

"Die. Squishy caster."
"Guess again." Badonkadonkadonk.

Weirdo wrote:

My heart says level 8 Urban Druid. Thousand faces (gained at level 6) makes the race/sex swap essentially irrelevant, which is kind of gaming the system but I love druids, and the Urban Druid fits my lifestyle. I've had an interest in druidic/new age faiths since I was a kid and I think I could pull off being a sustainability activist, especially with druid magic to back me up.

My brain says I do not have the Wis to be a successful druid and would probably be better off as a 3rd level wizard. I don't want to deal with the sex change without Thousand Faces. My SO wouldn't like it and the ret-con might erase the relationship entirely. If I was sure that I wouldn't lose my SO (either I could transition back medically or magically or the retcon changed my SO's orientation), I would probably go for level 8 wizard.

No way am I risking an AP. I think I have a better chance of dying than surviving and getting the levels.

Quite true about the Ap, still worth it for me. The retcon only affects documentation (photos, computer records, drivers licence etc). The proviso about not trying to change back to origin sex/human only applies if your doing an AP and even there exceptions may be made if its correct for your race/class and you picked that because you like it not because it let's you pretend your still who you were.

For instance If be taking a Kitsune with realistic likeness. If Kitsune normally hide what they are I'd be expected to do th same, if they're normally remain in anthropomorphic fox form I'd need to do the same and either way I could only assume female forms except for a short term sneak in disguise.

If your not taking the Ap option you could instantly try to go back to being Bob Thompson it's just that every bit of physical evidence is in Barbara Thompson's name ID, school transcript, hospital records etc.

Draconic Sorcerer's do seem popular, surprising really the amount of people who'd rather play it safe than risk dying horribly on an adventure considering the number of "uber kill everything builds" I've seen posted on these forums.

BretI wrote:

In my opinion, starting them with as much as 1000 gp doesn't hurt. It would allow the casters to buy a single wand with a first level spell and the martial characters to get much better weapons.

Then again, I've never really enjoyed stripping a dungeon bare in order to earn another 5 sp.

See that's where we differ I had one character who literally stole the penis rings from defeated enemies.

KaiserBruno wrote:
For spontaneous casters do we get to pick our spells and Bloodlines/mysteries or is it randomly determined?

You get to pick with the proviso unless your doing an AP all levels can only come from a single class full caster class i.e. no sorcer lvl 3, X lvl Y its simply sorcerer as stated above.

Well if we're offering actual suggestions personally I don't use the you can buy anything up to GP limit either. Instead any specific given item e.g. longsword +2 has a % chance of being available. So you walk into town X and ask about a magical longsword (minor items have a base 75% chance of being available, medium ones 50% and major ones 25% modified by 5% per settlement size). I roll and see if that particular ones avialable or not. If it isn't you need to look elsewhere or get it made.

The other thing I do is that items are upgradeable so long as you pay the difference in price. So you might find Ydrisel the blade of the Elven champion . . . lost when the last bearer fell in the dark woods of Mildred the grumpy. Now sure you could dump that blade and hopefully buy a new one or find a better one or you could take your funds and material to a magical crafter and get it enhanced so instead of a +1 longsword its now a +2 one, then a +2 flaming one. I have a whole bunch of resources that do different things depending on what the players are after so they can actually save money over a straight purchase if they quest for the reagents themselves.

Lets say a +2 longsword is 4,000 GP and a +1 one is 2,000. Normaly to get a +2 one would cost you 3,000 + a trade in variance on your old one however if you bring the rare metals and reagents + gold to a magical craft you may well only wind up paying 1,500-2000 GP to get your sword magical enhanced. I also have a number of levels beyond masterwork and a points scale so a particularly well made sword might add to attack, damage and diplomacy but not be magical (finely balanced, sharp and beutiful to look at).

Some of us do roleplay those things, I've a familiar in PFS that I always make sure to roll when its nearby to see if it gets caught in a trap or the like. Only time its rolled worse than my PC was when it got in a trap that turned its fur blue which it wasn't happy about.

As for the question given your explanation on spot checks I'd say it was valid with the possible excpetion of prayer strike, see belo.

Prayer Strike
At 2nd level, a Crimson assassin learns her signature assassination style. To initiate a prayer attack, she holds her sawtooth sabre (or sabres) out, point down, and weaves the blade in the air. She must be within 30 feet of and visible to her victim. Beginning a prayer attack is a standard action, and causes her victim to be fascinated by her unless he makes a Will save (DC 10 + the Crimson assassin’s class level + her Charisma modifier—if she’s wielding two sawtooth sabres, this DC gains a +2 bonus). She can maintain the fascination effect by concentrating. The victim may attempt a new save to escape fascination each time a threat (other than the fascinating assassin) appears. At any point after 3 rounds, she may make a coup de grace attack against the target, provided the target is still fascinated. Activating or concentrating on maintaining a prayer attack does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

So for the ability to be used the assasin had to drop the invisiblity and be visible to the Barbarian/other PC. At which point it rather comes down to do they have time to cry out for help while the assasin was activating it.

Still that aside much better than the assasin one GM used on a group I was in once where they suddenly altered their tactics to counter what I was doing. Not just my opinion the other players felt the same as how the assasin took down the other members of the party was markedly different to how they tried to take me down.

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I think it also depends a bit on how you view your starting character. That is just how experienced and knowledgable are they? If they're a young character who's only just completed their training/military service they probably wont have that great gear because its expensive and they need to prioritize what they're buying. Full plate is expensive and honesty I don't see a lot of starting adventurers having it. then again if you see 1st level as being a veteran or otherwise experienced person it'd make sense that they'd have better gear but they'd also have reasons to have lost it . . .

1) Sold it to pay for bills after recovering from an injury.
2) Never thought about this stuff in the guard where it was provided and hadn't enough on hand for the best gear.
3) Didn't want heavy plate weighing them down till they know where and what they to go/do.
4) The adventures they did go on prioritized lighter armours.

I admit I don't go by the buy/sell guidelines you need to make a haggling check that determines how good a deal you get. 100% markup is the worst you can buy if you aren't good at it or are dealing with a very skilled merchant best you can get is 13% over cost of creation so 113-200% of the cost of building it or if your selling it 100-20%. E.g if an item costs 1000 GP to make you can buy it for 1,130 to 2,000 and sell it for 200-1,000 unless its special in some way. That is a merchant wont buy the item from you unless they expect to make a profit on it so your generic +1 sword will never be bought for more than wholsale value because that's what they'd pay to get a new one made. On the other hand a valuable ancient vase that cost 100GP to make may sell for ten times that because its value lies in the fact the culture which made is gone now and its an irreplaceable antique (I include artwork and other items in my treasure piles so you wont just get X Coinage you'll get X coinage, X magic items and X artwork like a pearl encrusted eye patch or a nice painting or a sword made for a king. Utterly useless in combat but an exqisite work of crafmanship).

Sounds like the downtime rules are worth investing in for the smart adventurer "I've a bit of gold left over I"ll buy that inn, village, title of nobility" depending on what level they are.

Zolanoteph wrote:

I have never used mythic, but my gripe with it is that it seems to be a system designed to put characters on god mode and keep players on the hedonic treadmill of increasing power level.

There is a certain type of player who will be impressed when he sees shiny new options which allow him to have a bigger sword and a bigger pet and run faster and be stronger and be unstoppably powerful to the point that he makes a normal character look like a puddle of garbage. Indeed, this kind of player might praise such new options as innovations.

I'm the kind of player who enjoys more options in terms of qualitatively new things: New classes, feats for normal characters, etc. over quantitatively new things (LOOK HOW HUGE AND STUPID POWERFUL I HAVE BECOME? LOOK AT ALL THESE DICE!!!)

Pathfinder/3.X is already notoriously hard to set up in terms of CR appropriate encounters. Plugging in over the top rules systems and god like abilities will only make the task of creating appropriate encounters that much more difficult and erratic.

Personally I love mythic because it gives me a rules legal way to get immortality, not needing to sleep, eat, breath without needing items or 20th level characters. Admitedly there are more powerful things like not needing to lug around 50 books of spells or the like or one feat to craft everything but honestly the mythic character I'd choose to play tends more towards the non-combat abilities.

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Yep and I'd probably tend towards hiding my form although I have to say that "are you housebroken line" seems very dangerous . . .

1) "No . . . by the way you may want to clean out your napsack."
2) Next morning leave a half eaten dead bird or other critter on them before they wake up.
3) "Yes and unlike you INSERT SPECIES HERE I didn't need a trainer."
4) If asker is male "Yes and I'm happy to teach you since I've seen you constantly pissing on nearby scenery."

Nothing wrong with the Mos Eisly approach even if I can't see it on a global scale, then again I've just been re-reading Kevin and Kell. For those unfamiliar imagine a world where all the various species are intelligent and the difference between murder and a legal lunch is whether you eat the body. Needless to say the office politcs are rather . . . direct. Mos Eisly's a bit more like Ozzie and Milly, I did love her attempt to get her bedtime curfew extended by trying to get people to sign a petition to "Restore the nocturnal rights of fox children."

Personally I see it as more of a sliding scale from tolerance and peaceful coexistance to armed warfare between the diffeerent races depending on where you are and especially in major cities there'll be elf only bars where dwarfs just don't go and the like.

Ok thanks for the reply, hmmmm mythic mini's isn't really my thing but the mythic spell conversions certainly would be. I'll have to keep an eye out for the release.

Hmmm my last post never got here anyway. . .


I find the idea of a druidic T-rex heading downtown to get money out of her bank account rather entertaining. "Aiieeeee its godzilla! . . . does this mean I'm an extra in the next film?"


Nothing personal just a reaction from the first reply in this thread.


Yes third party is allowed as long as the choices are being made based on what you want to be rather than trying to find a loophole.

A long lifespan is part of why I'd be willing to risk it all on wrath of the righteous hello immortality.

So I don't think anyones been willing to risk the AP and yes you could level here. How fast would depend on how dedicated you were I suppose since neither Psion nor sorcerer really lend themselves to training even if someone made it back from an AP and was willing to teach you.

The problem is just how to make the group feel threatened at high levels of mythic play. As it stands now I'm seeing a sort of "meh even if we lose they can't kill us" for a lot of traditional opponents. Powerful monsters who use natural or non-artifact suitable weapons, wizards and the like. I don't intend a total wipe but I want something between no one can kill you except the final end BBEG with his artifact of killingness" and "everyone can kill you with their fork." Sure the waves of minions aren't going to be a problem but if you run up against a lieutenant i.e. a mythic monster that's meant to use up resource and make the party feel as if it could permanently kill them while enroute to the final confrontation I want it to be able too.

I did see that link just wasn't sure there wasn't something more in the book that wasnt open licence. I'd say just change the mechanics a bit and add a fee unique abilities then.

joeyfixit wrote:
Liam Warner wrote:
I'm just concerned because if the BBEG is say a dragon it only has spells or natural weapons to kill a a Pc with.
"Only" spells? "Only" breath weapons?

And claws, and sitting on them but he isn't necessarily going to have an artifact weapon on hand.

Yes there are ways to neutralise a person but id like some way to kill a party when they fight a non humanoid foe who may not have "weapons"

I'm just concerned because if the BBEG is say a dragon it only has spells or natural weapons to kill a a Pc with.

I was thinking about this recently and I realised to kill an mythic 10 being you need a mythic weapon but the only way to get one off those is with 3 mythic path choices or be given one by a gm which seems either pointless or expensive for a class not interested in melee. Sooo I was wondering would a mythic magic missile or other damaging mythic spell count as artifact class for killing a mythic character?

For that matter what about a creature or pc with natural weapons. Do they count as an artifact for killing a mythic pc or does the mythic 10 red dragon need to carry around an artifact level dagger because when it's beaten the party to pulp it can't finish them off with its claws?

I'd like to point out a wizard researching heal spells assumes the following...

1) The have the time and resources to do so.
2) They have the interest to do so.

A lot of wizards aren't going to meet those criteria whether it's because of a different race outlook or limited funds. Even assuming one does research it you then have to deal with the following criteria...

1) Is he part of a group who shares knowledge.
2) Does he want to share this particular knowledge or keep it as a nasty surprise against anyone who attacks him.
3) Does he live long enough to share that knowledge!
4) Does that knowledge last long enough or is it lost/destroyed by some other cataclysm.

Now assuming you have a mage with the time and interest to research healing magic who is also part of a college or other collaborative group and who doesn't mind just sharing the mystical knowledge he spent months or years researching and developing and that in the time since that knowledge was recorded in their vaults there hasn't been some event that caused it's loss e.g. An invasion or massive fire you still assume that everyone is aware and interested in learning what's in the vailts. A recent pathfinder module specifically mentions new areas of an old lodge have just opened up that no one remembered.

There could be an entire section on arcane healing locked up in a dusty room of a crumbling lodge in the slums of Cheliax that no one remembers is there or due to a records slip/sabotage they think is just old business records.

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I haven't seen the fellow but does any of the stuff you haven't quoted actually state it uses the Pc creation spells other than its own unique abilities to create these planes?

Just to clarify as I think I've confused some people. The last two are an either or situation. That's to say if you become a different race Or the opposite sex you become level 3 if you become a different race AND the opposite sex you can take one of the following two options.

1) Stay in this world and get 8th level abilities of a single full caster class with all physical records of your life changing to reflect your having been born that way.

2) Take an adventure path (with the rules outlined in the original post) in which case you can be any class combination you like including non-caster but you start at first level and have complete an AP changed to take you to 20/10 and challenge you. After which you come back here and while you don't have any items/gold you will have all that knowledge and power.

Any race is fine although I would appreciate it if people could stop trying to think up ways to game the system.

Real world no conversion you don't have levels what's happening here is the abilities of a X level caster is being given to you. To use an example above after they get 1st level wizard they Cann then learn whatever they want to improve. Sure they may not be intelligent enough to understand the theory behind ninth level spells but for the sake of argument if he was he could learn the theory and then the spells.

Personally I treat component pouches as always containing sufficient ingredients to cast your spells as your continually refilling what you use. Where it starts to matter is when your in a situation where you can't refill it e.g. On another plane, desert island etc in which case I treat it as containing 5 days casting components before it runs out.

I'm just wondering is there any official sources for information on the 5 Minkai seals anywhere other than the adventure itself?

Reason I'm asking.

I'm asking because I was thinking (assuming I get the free time to run it of having the jade regent only in possession of three and why there's been so little support of the search for the Amatatsu is that their forces are searching for the other one protected from them which they know to be somewhere closer at hand.

Specifically it's hidden in the wizards tower from the ruby phoenix tournament a fact that becomes apparent when a tournament winners description reveals an Imperial seal is stored inside it. The Oni can't just barge in and take it because the rules of golden perfection require the seals to be given. Of course winning the tournament will count. A high ranking noble will mention it's presence to the PCs giving them a reason to compete so someone can claim it as their one item (also if I have any player turnover allows new ones to also become scions of a different line.

Right now I haven't decided to have them be told by the noble they meet where first arriving from the crown of the world or one of the groups they need to acquire as allies as part off their price for joining.

Alex Smith 908 wrote:
Next May was the initial estimate and I doubt it has changed much.

So the mythic magic and mythic monsters at the link I provided aren't the ones they're talking about?

jimibones83 wrote:
I missed this ks but have been waiting for it to come out so I can purchase it. I know its probably still a long way off, but is there even a vague eta, such as early next year or something?

Didn't I see them available yesterday when I was looking at something else?

Isn't what they're talking about available here ?

Some interesting deaths here, what surprises me is so far I've not seen a TPK from a group of smart adventurers knowing a castle always has a secret way out and accidentally starting their brinewall battlers at lvl3 against Nindinzego.

markofbane wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
markofbane wrote:
And the cost of those scrolls can add up if you use them as regularly as you do a regular spell slot. Let's say you throw an extra magic missile in one of those slots the ring gives you. That would cost 12.5 gp to scribe that scroll. Unless you are 9th level or higher. Then, to get the same number of missiles that a memorized spell would give you, it would be 112.5 gp. Each time. And your spell penetration feats wouldn't apply with a scroll or wand.
This indicates a terrible use of your scrolls, and missing what they're actually for.
I agree. I was just trying to demonstrate that just using scrolls instead of the extra spell slots a ring could provide isn't as economically viable as others are suggesting. If you used scrolls in the way you could use extra daily spell slots, you'd quickly outpace the expense of the ring with mountains or parchment and gallons of ink.

There's also the annoying fact your generally limited to 2 rings even if you have 4 hands and 20 fingers.

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Alexander Augunas wrote:

I talk a little bit about this in my Kitsune Compendium product (on my phone at work, so no link :-[ ). One of the ideas I toss around I the concept of a kitsune "coming of age" day where young adult kitsune spend the entire day in their true forms. Otherwise, they stay in their true forms most of the time.

This idea is backed by their psychology. Kitsune are shape shifting tricksters who prize loyalty and live in a world where they are often confused for Yokai / Lycanthropes. As a result, kitsune are not likely to hang around in their true forms unless they are with peoe that they know and trust. Otherwise, it would make sense for them to keep to the down-low even in a place they were well accepted.

I have that, in fact it was reading your info on them that got me thinking about how people in general use them.

Ciaran Barnes wrote:
By the rules. All you have to do is level up and choose a class. In game, handle it any way you like. I suggest you do something that is enjoyable or minimally invasive for the players. Don't make it a chore for them.

Oh I've tried and abandoned training rules before I'm just wondering what people think thematically works.

Koujow wrote:

This kind of happened to me last night. The bad guy was surrounded by a Magus with lightning in his hand, an armored magus with a spear, a rogue with poison blades and my Half Orc combat Shaman with a giant machete... and the bad guy opts to try and hunt down my Spirit animal. Really? 4 dudes with scary weapons in your face and you want to hunt down a random bird?

Edit: Also, an Int of 10 is suppose to represent an 'average' intelligence. If you want examples of average intelligence, watch the nightly news. Those people being interviewed on the street are the average. ;)

Yeah I have to wonder about the gms who target ordinary animals ones that are fighting or unusual e.g. A fairy dragon ok but really you take time out from fighting the big burly fighter to target the cat trying to hide in a corner of the ship?

@Deaths adorable apprentice
Party would be luck of the draw as people picked the path they wanted they got assigned to a group I.e. First four to pick skull and shackles become the first group, next four are the next group and so on. If a full group can't be made missing roles are filled by iconics.

Fair enough just remember depending on how old you are you won't be more than young adult and could be a juvenile or young dragon. I'm fairly sure your not over 100 afterall.

I suppose you could also go with groups are formed of people who'd have been/are friends if they met in other circumstances and will become a tightknit group in this one but it's a little outside the area im interested in.

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