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Liam Warner's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,041 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 1 alias.


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Never mind I checked the srd for the answer.

I also took a look at the suggested inspired swashbuckler and blade adept. Not really a fan. The inspired one requires a piercing weapon and blade adept doesn't give spell combat so you can cast with an offhand. So I'll stick with my ranger 1, arcane bloodline arcanist 9, eldritch knight 10 build.


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I wasn't debating the value of various casting systems (in which case I'd have provided more details) just saying for people including myself it's not necessarily about magic for dummies but playing a magic style that makes more sense, is more enjoyable experience.

No offence but if your that harsh on casters I'm glad I'm not in your game as you seem opposed to the things I find most fun about the magic system, it also sounds more of a player problem with them taking advantage of their rules knowledge to overpower the game rather than have fun. The arcanist I want to play for example is probably horribly underpowered because I'm taking choices that appeal rather than raw power.

Finally on another note (as I'm away from home for a few more days and can't check my copy) I know the wizard gets 2 spells a level and sorcerers et new spells known what kind if spell progression does an arcanist get as they level up besides finding/buying new spells?


Bardarok wrote:
The problem with this is going to be downtime. If a player has downtime than they can simply memorize everything basically making all knowledge skills redundant as they have already memorized all the things. It would probably be fine to buff it to 3 plus intelligence modifier or even up to intelligence score, as long as wizards can't memorize spellbooks and you require every page memorized to be specified. But as LazarX said anything infinite is probably going to be unbalanced.

There's already rules in it about spells ( can memorize but then need to scribe at usual cost to use). Intelligence score could work since it gives an average person some use from this maybe int * mod?


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the secret fire wrote:
Dennis Baker wrote:
I think we're all on the same page here, just phrasing it slightly differently. I also think most people of us feel an FAQ would be good to help clear this up.

They'll need an FAQ for Dimensional Slide, as well.

I'll still ban the Arcanist and its children at my table because I hate the idea of wizardry for dummies, but closing the potential loopholes in the class would at least slow down the game's inexorable descent into splatbook purgatory.

Except its not really Wizardry for dummies so much as a different system of casting and one several people prefer. I like playing wizards but I've always hated the vancian system of casting as it makes no sense to me.

As for the party I agree it seems less a problem with the classes and more an issue with how the fight was run, a chimera or other flying creature particularly an intelligent should never land when attacking a group.


wraithstrike wrote:
From what I understand pearls of power restore expended spells. The arcanist does not lost spells they cast so there is nothing to recall.

Like I said a case either way, and my arcanists if I run a game will only need to memorize new or replacement spells rather than rememorize every day. At least till I can determine if that makes them a bit too powerful.


Just to be sure we're on the same page I only want to modify the maximum number not the number per casting. So its still only 1 page every 10 minutes, a maxium of 6 an hour if a sorcerer wants to burn through their entire set of memorized spells its just that if you spent the time/effort an ordinary person could still memorize war and peace.


I really like the memorize page spell from advanced class guide but I'm not a fan of the you can only memorize X pages equal to your intelligence modifier. Especially as it can be cast on beings other than the wizard who may not have a high intelligence score but I'm not good at creating/balancing spells. I was just wondering to remove that limit so everything else about the spell works the same except the target creature can now memorize an unlmited number of pages what level do people think that would be balanced at?

For those who don't have the book its a 1st level spell, 10 minute cast time that allows the target creature to perfectly remember one page of something (text, drawings, schematics etc) and reproduce it.


In addition to my above post the loss of 1 prepared spell level hurts a bit much to take eldritch font but that is interesting in its flavour text.

EDIT
Do people think pearl or runestone would be more appropriate for an arcanist? Not thinking about the extra arcane pool exploit but simply using them as a wizard/sorcerer would to get an extra spell or two a day by expending the items power rather than the spell. Right now I'm thinking the pearls but I could see a case for runestones or even both. You prepare and cast the spells but its sort of spontaneous in that you can pick which of the prepared ones you cast each day. However the pearls were released before the arcanist while the runestones were released with them along with the spell latice. The spell latice specifically mentions its effects when used by an arcanist AND a spontaneous caster whereas the runestones only mention spontaneous casters which implies that an arcanist would use the pearl.

EDIT 2
On a random offtopic thought the spell latice with its 3 dimensinal image etched in the interior sounds pretty neat even if some spells would be a pain and a half to create a three dimensional image of.


I have to agree that it would be on a case by case basis. Amulet of natural armour is a bit hard to picture if your thinking scraps of rhino hide but if your less concerned with the good image a shiny metallic dragon scale could work and as indicated most items don't have a description so they'd be made according to the mages personal tastes and histry for example an amulet for protection against poison depending on the maker could be a . . .

1) Golden ankh hanging from silver chains,
2) A circular dragon head of jade inset with a flawless golden pearl,
3) A simple string of red beads supporting a wooden board marked with arcane writings.

and still all function exactly the same. Even the ones that do have a description unless they're a rare artifact could probably have a case made for something different as long as you don't violate basic concepts. Even the aforementioned amulet of natural armour (bold emphasis mine) says

This amulet, usually containing some type of magically preserved monster hide or other natural armor—such as bone, horn, carapace, or beast scales

So it doesn't actually have to be a piece of preserved hide or could have the hide stored inside an opaque crystal or locket as its only usually containing not always and not solely composed of.


True the arcanist can prepare more lower level spells than a wizard but she can prepare fewer higher level ones and in terms of casting power those tend to be the more important ones. Essentially cantrips to 2nd level she has 1 more prepared and castable, 3-5 she's on par with a wizard and for 6+ spells she's one behind in terms of memorized + the later gaining of a spell level. So on average less although I do admit its going to come down to figuring out whether the 1 less higher level spells is offset by the fact you only need to memorize 1 version of each spell to be able to cast it a potential 4 times e.g. an arcanist can only memorize wish once vs a equal level wizards 2 but they can actually cast it twice however alternatively they can memorize wish once and cast it twice but a wizard can memorize one wish and one time stop. I've not had much opportunity to play high level games (one day) and I'm not sure how often wizards actually memorize multiples of those spells?

Honestly I could live with that since I think I was getting mixed up in the descriptions of how their spells work. If I'm right in my current impression that spells prepared remain memorized until they memorize something else regardless of casting or time period and it only matters for learning new ones to replace them then this class could well be viable.


pres man wrote:
I wouldn't want to make it too easy or common. I enjoyed having my "First Daughter", in the campaign when the party had to infiltrate drow, actually been a male child who was obligated to present as female for the good of the family. Most of the elites of society knew the truth, but it was looked down as "inappropriate" to draw attention to it (and with drow, you really want to tend to avoid anything that is inappropriate as the response tends to be ... uncomfortable).

Those aren't necessarily the same thing though, for example take that 2nd level spell I mentioned earlier. At 2nd level any 3rd level wizard (4th level sorcerer/arcanist can cast it which makes it pretty easy to do all things considered (give or take the debate about how realistic X level is for a given world). However that doesn't mean its common since I imagine 99% of the worlds magic users (especially those who can't change their spells easily) would have other things they'd want to learn (cleaning spells, defense spells, attack spells, divination spells, purification spells, cleansing spells, healing spells, more profitable spells). So even though turning a person into the opposite sex is easy those who know the correct spell to do so (and have the interest in learning it) could still be fairly rare.

As for divine casters they don't have any spells that do this kind of thing which would mean your directly praying for a miracle from your god every time and there it butts up against can vs should. Yes a priest could pray for every transexual they encounter to be transformed but would they bother their god over something like that? This comes down to a personal taste for divine casters in a world. Personally I tend more towards NPC priest vary rarely cast spells not because they can't do it but because they have too much respect for their deity to bother them about things that can be done without their intervention. Saving the life of a child who will die from an otherwise incurable disease or to stop an epidemic sure they'll cast cure disease, healing the local lords cut from sword training they wont cast cure X wounds becasue it will heal naturally and hopefully teach him a lesson. Not to mention things like that in my world if you cure a disease magically the person doesn't build up antibodies to it and while they don't know the science they know letting a disease run its course reduces the odds of someone catching it a second time so they'll only cure it if there's going to be long term consequences from not stopping it.


Ahhh yes the old you can't edit a post after X amount of time I forgot the forum used that. Well carrying on . . .

3) It depends if the girdle changes physical attributes only or like the similar helm of opposite alignment also changes mental ones perhaps less markedly e.g. a man turned into a woman feels unhappy with her body as opposed to is happy as a woman but still finds other women attractive. Or alternatively if you really want nightmare fuel it turns you into the person you would be if your the opposite sex, EVERYTHING into the person you would be including the gender disphoria i.e. you turn from say a man who wants to be a woman to a woman who wants to be a man but still knows before putting on that belt she wanted to be a woman.

4) I recall one manga/anime where twins were believed to be bad luck so when a pair was born one was raised as a girl if magic existed like this I can easily see him as being physically tranformed into one even if the entire village had to pool together to pay for it. Not to mention the whole "Milord its a boy." "I see well retrieve the girdle as a girl she wont be able to cause any troubles by trying to claim the throne." in certain cultures. Safehold by david weber had one girl who because she wasn't a man couldn't inherit the throne even though her own father thought she'd make a better heir than the oldest son.

5)With regards to dispelling it that comes down to what kind of magical change it is. Is it an ongoing change that can be dispelled by antimagic fields, a remove curse and the like or is it an instantaneous transformation in that what once was A is now B and while it can be turned back into A that is a new transformation not the undoing of an existing one.

6) Clowns go back a bit further than Chris Moffet.

7) With regards to Golarion and its attitudes towards transexuals I think in any "realistic" fantasy world there's always going to be a bit of Terry Pratchets black and white get along fine when ganging up on green. Sure you'll never truly eliminate it but unlike our world where the unclean/unpure/unhuman has always come down to a different type of human (on a global scale rather than a specific werewolf ate my neighbour scale) you will have a different level of intolerance to another human of a different culture/skin colour/sexual orientation than you will to a neighbour in question may literally be not human. Who may in more extreme casese view humans as a perfectly natural self renewing food source.

Afterall when you have a choice of villifying the neighbouring village where everyone changes sex regularly throughout their teen years till deciding if they want to be male/female/variable depending on mood, the fire breathing, spell casting, dragon as big as your entire village or the group of primitive troglodytes inhabiting a cave system full of shiny, shiny gold who are you going to pick?


Draco18s wrote:
pachristian wrote:

But somebody still has to want to buy the item in question.

I can't picture dragons buying many.

You clearly don't play the long game or think like a 10,000 year old reptile. ;)

What's better for dealing with the invasions you have to face every week ranging from "thief who wants your shinies" to "the knight wants that princess back" to "the party of opposingly-aligned adventurers":
A) Sorcerer spells as a 4th level caster
B) A wand of Chain Lightning and a Contingent Dominate Person?

Hmmm I think I met that dragon once, he had a rather unusual interest in human women and would kidnap a random princess every so often wait for a hero to show up to rescue her put up a token resistance (enough to be believable) then surrender and let them go up to rescue the maiden fair. At which point the gender change spell kicked in turning the hero into a woman and trapping her behind the gender specific spells that prevented women from passing through them. Worked well really till he ran into a female knight. I believe he's currently lying low from a bunch of very angry adventurers who've teamed up with a desire for a dragon's hide.

Anyway on topic as it were I've never had the time (or players interested enough) but I'd also like to have run a game with different gold values for different countries. Gets very complex though when the rabidashian soverign (gold) buys 4 of the smaller reichan doubloons (also gold) or .35 of the eisenchart church mark (gold again).

Best I could manage is just the previously suggested shift everything up a step so platinum becomes gold, gold becomes silver and silver becomes copper. For the traditional copper barter replaced it as adventurers very rarely deal with copper pieces after character creation and for values over it gems and other precious metals where used instead. Its one of those things I think works in real life where everyone uses that coinage but in a game played part time too much coinage change gets confusing to maintain.

I've often wondered what DnD worlds would evolve into as technology caught up to modern standards. Would magic become commericalized, would you have mass magical production with armies ordering 10,000 +1 guns, would magic command even higher prices as while 10,000 mundane guns could be mass produced the commanders +3 one would still need to be indvidually made, would plains and ships exist, would they only be used on the important routes from the heavily defended teleport circles to major cities? I know I could use a ring of sustenance in my day to day life although I'd prefer the magical powers necessary to create them or render them unecessary grin.


Minor quibble but on a purely personal note I don't like the fact you still need to memorize the spells each day. Sure you can cast any of them as long as you have spell slots remaining (or at 20th level arcane poolpoints) but I was under the impression once you memorized a spell it remained until you memorized a replacement rather than just fizzling away after 24 hours requiring you to rememorize it.

Not to mention the fewer spells and delayed casting I'm honestly losing a lot of interest in the arcanist class because of this.


Just wanted to point out (and i'll edit this post as I have time to read through the preceeding pages.

1) Book of erotic fantasy (dnd) had a 2nd level change gender spell, and a similar change sexual orientation spell as a I recall.

2) 1st ed Dnd had a random table for what you reincarnated as which got dropped by 2nd edition as too nasty. I kept it, remember after one fight the party reincarnated a family of farmers who'd gotten caught up and killed in something they started. Father wound up as a dryad, mother as a fairy (small tinkerbell type) and the son became a female elf. Then they went on leaving a very confused group behind them.


Hmmmm thanks for the replies, greater reward for greater risk is understandable just made a little cautious by their apparent view player combat is the best type of game play.


I've been swamped by work commitments (still will be till at least late september) and only just found out about it. Most of the concept appeals to me, pathfinder game, open world, build a city, learn to be a wizard and then pick up some unarmed combat. However their website talks a lot about player vs player combat being the most important aspect of social interaction. However I'm not really a fan of that much prefer working together to make something over killing someone else.

So I'm just wondering since I haven't much free time and others are following this do those who know more about it think it'll offer much to draw in people who are more interested in say creating a mage tower in a city or working together with others to pull down a dragon than in challenging random people to a fight to the death?


Blinks at the "Must have 5 ranks in a skill OTHER than knowledge religion." How on earth does that work on a priest prestige class.

"Hi father I wish to join your order."
"Tell me my son the name of your god."
"I worship he who walks behind the rows."
"There is no place for you here."
"What, why?"
"You know the name of your god."
". . ."

EDIT
I know deific obedience requires religion 3 its just "Must have rank 5 in a skill other than religion" or "able to cast 3rd level spells" seems a really clunky way to say "You must be 5th level to take this class."


Short Answer
Class Balance

Long Answer
Wizards leave it to the priests, if you want a healing spell ask to research it like any other custom spell (one of my personal favorites is hygiene for a quick and easy way to get clean). It'll cost you time and resources learning arcane way's to do the same thing any priest can do spontaneously but there's no line in the sand saying no (unless your GM puts on there). In fact Baba Yaga Queen of the witch's is stated as having researched arcane versions of EVERY divine spell in existence (or at least the core books). I've had a couple of wizards myself research various healing spells in games where no one wanted to play a priest.


This is aimed at those who want unlimited healing but don't want to be casting a cantrip hundreds if times in a row. Maybe make it channelled so rather than 150 castings the cleric casts it and then concentrates for 150 rounds (quarter of an hour) to heal the 150 damage the fighter took?


darrenan wrote:
j b 200 wrote:

I've been looking at the Exp for this book, and it says that you should get enough exp to go from level 5 to level 6 between the Minotaur, Jeslyn and the wardstone/babues. I added it up and it totals 20500, about 2500 short for to hit level 6 (per player). I'm not sure where the extra exp is supposed to come from.

Experience totals per part
Part 1: 1800
Part 2: 3300
Part 3: 5100 (varies depending on randoms)
Part 4: 5500
Wardstone/Babues: 4800
Total: 20500

I'm confused as well, but mostly by this part:

The PCs should reach 5th level just
before or just after destroying the
wardstone fragment.
The PCs should be catapulted into
6th level by this adventure’s climactic
encounter—as part of this, they should
also attain their first mythic tier.

There doesn't seem to be anything between those two except a fight with some Babaus, how does that 'catapult' them into 6th level? Is there an uber XP award for going mythic or something? I'm definitely missing something here.

Sorry about the delay in replying real life is keeping me busy. However I think from your post your only adding up fixed XP since you mention randoms only in part 3. However the entire time the party is below the city there's a 35% chance per hour of an encounter ranging from a single darkmantle up to a venomous snake swarm (sure its a 35% chance of an encounter and then a 89-100 for it but its 1,200 by itself with no other encounters). Similarly part 4 and the assault can generate more XP if they have multiple attacks rather than taking the place on their first try and just because they've progress to taking the fight to the enemy doesn't mean that the randoms from part 3 stop occuring. I admit there's not enough XP between destroying the wardstone and the end of the adventure if they only hit 5 when doing that. So in that case you may either need to beef the final fight up or just accept they'll be 5th level in part 4 sometime not necessarily when they destroy the fragment.


Hmmmmmmmmm food for thought.


Ascalaphus wrote:

@Liam: it's always nice to have good relations with the local nobles.

However, if you can reliably obtain +3 weapons, it means you have access to a (roughly) level 9 spellcaster. Maybe you ARE that spellcaster. You're not exactly a common peasant that's easy prey for predatory nobles.

These people have, and sell, military grade weaponry to people with dubious morals. You can try to squeeze them, but it's not as easy or safe as squeezing peasants. If they get too upset, they might hire some PCs to kill you, payment in magic weapons.

I'm beginning to think that magic arms dealers might actually become a sort of Military-Arcane Complex that has significant political influence, due to the amount of money they handle and the dangerous people they know.

Its a numbers game, you have access to a 9th level caster he has access to 50 plus several thousand troops. Then when the next shop owner opens up its "Just remember Claudius." "Ummm who's . . . Claudiua?" "Claudius and if you want an answer just dig in your back yard."

That said a magical medieval society - western Europe does actually mention that spellcaster do wind up wiedling a certain degree of influence in their communities and can even get special perks such as being allowed to serve for 3 years at the end of their apprentticeship rather than having to pay the money up front like most people. So your right there, I was more making a point that they aren't going to be rolling in cash. The more powerful/valuable an item is the less likely it is to sell.


MurphysParadox wrote:

Most likely, you'd have a guild council that would have a liaison on the town council. You wouldn't want each guild on the town's council.

There should be a trade councilor with responsibilities of taxes, tariffs, and interacting with foreign merchants.

If it has a harbor, the master could either be under the trade councilor, on the guild council, or even have a seat on the town council if it is big enough.

Likewise, the farmers would have the same set-up depending on how important they are to the town and its business.

If the town is on the border of two countries, there may be ambassadors on the council.

Just to clarify after reading your post when I say village I mean just that not a major town or important landmark. At most there'd probably be no more than a hundred people living in it and the surrounding lands, definately less than 200. Although some of your suggestions would make sense for larger places I don't want this for somewhere of major importance. For example if it has a harbour it just has some fishing boats in it and nothing big enough to justify a permanent position.


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wspatterson wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:

He sounds neutral to me.

Certainly one can do some evil things while still being good -- I'm sure that Martin Luther King spanked his kids, which is technically assault and torture.

But torturing and killing defaulters,... That's beyond Dickensian excesses.

No, spanking your child is not, technically or otherwise, assault or torture. Someone other than the parent spanking a child will, in many places, be battery.

Anyway, this NPC is, at best, neutral.

Its illegal here but I agree its one of the better ones to mark a kids memory and teach them not to do something until their old enough to understand Mr shiny fire is not your friend. You don't beat them till they bleed just one short sharp smack is usually enough from what I've read. I mean my mother used a wooden spoon on me and it didn't scar me for life.


Interestingly slimes are a fairly common threat in various sci fi settings. I recall one I red recently where there was this red stuff that a survey ship encountered on an asteroid and got covered. When the retrieval ships arrived they found a round red ball in place of a ship that tried to infect them (reaching out and covering the ship that got close, they burnt it off with the other ships engines). Being humans and thus lacking in common sense they took samples back to their lunar colony where it got loose. End of the story it was slowly spreading out from the lunar base and they were concerned if it reached the others they'd loose access to the outer systems as it was a necessary stop over point.


Jamie Charlan wrote:

Our table rarely keeps such details hidden from the group unless they plan on the inevitable occurring. Too high a chance of 'doppelganger SOP' occurring.

Well, from a more theoretical and less focused-fire standpoint, if a party is to trust each-other with <gear/lives/magicitems/lovedones/equipment/multiverse/weapons/souls/trea sure> as they so often are forced to do, being unwilling to share such basic information is a pretty big faux-pas, so you should at least do so with the same understanding as you have playing a CE assassin in a party with two paladins.

One time I got to play a Kitsune (I want that boon SlimGuage) I had a good reason to not trust at least one other player (he nearly got the entire party killed on one occasion trying to follow me in order to find out where a hermit lived after the group decided they'd let me do it as I'd already met him and he was a hermit who lived alone in a very dangerous area because he disliked people) and so I kept my true form secret and hidden. Of course I did play some pranks on the guy like changing his clothes for a very flattering girls set I had made, not that he appreciated the comments in the bar that night.

@Zergtitan
Those kind of slip ups e.g. ears appearing when happy in my opinion should only happen when young or playing a character with less emotional control. A dedicated, focused Kitsune isn't likely to have involuntary changes even when stressed any more than a mage has involuntarily fireballs firing at people when stressed.

Of course as I said this isn't universal and I can see some Kitsune having less control over their shape changes especially if they grow up in an area where its common and accepted so they don't actually see a reason not to have their tail pop out and wage when happy.


Another thing to consider is that there's a difference between my saying to mr murderhobo "Yes that +1 sword is X GP" and trying to pull that with the legally appointed king/duke/count who can call down a horde of murder hobos on me.

Remember you may be called on to provide magical services i.e. items as your tithe to your local lords.

I figure that tis more likley that the price breakdown is closer to . . .

Murderhoboes: 100% markup and party for a month.
Average customers: 10-20% markup and utility stock e.g. a self cleaning broom.
Friends: 0-5% mark up.
Nobles: 20-30% discount and an occasional freebie to keep myself in good stead.

There's also the fact as indicated your probably only going to actually sell items on an irregular basis so when you do make that profitable sell it has to see you through potentially months of no sales but still paying taxes.


I'm just wondering what would be common influential positions in a village council. They don't necessarily have to be official just a major voice in policy making. Any serious suggestions/thoughts greatly appreciated, what I have so far is . . .

Mayor: Head of village and responsible for its well being.

Magi: Spell caster of some description if present (not all villages would have them).

Priest: Voice of the gods.

Arms master: In charge of any weapons belonging to the village and head of its militia.

Guild Head: Appointed as a representative of any local guilds e.g. blacksmith, carpenter etc. Doubt there'd be enough for all roles (as there's likely only one of each) but a respected one the others trust to speak for them.

Adventurer: Like the magi not necessarily present but likely respected enough if ones retired there to run a tavern/farm/what have you.


Personally I'm of the opinion there's a wide body of spells out there like hygeine that adventurers never use but other elements of society do. A medieval magical society is a nice look at how magic can impact the day to day living in this era. For example . . .

Mage hand: Plant 1 row of seeds close to the one your doing yourself.
Cure light wounds: Stop bleeding, prevent infection, restore broken bones.
Mending: Fix torn clothes, farm equipment, sentimental items.
Prestitdigitation: Warms bath water, flavours food, festival entertainment, cleaning the house.
Purify food and water: Ritual by village priest to keep the well clean.
Know direction: Guide caravans through bad terrain or in inclement weather.
Detect animals: Makes hunting easier.

Each one for the low price of two chickens and a pig.

Then when you get to the nobles.

Plant Growth: Better crops, more food, more profit.
Detect Truth/Read Mind: More reliable judgements in court cases (whether fairly or in favour of the one who can do more for you).

As long as wizardly numbers are low and have to make things by hand you wont see Eberron but you will see healthier, more long lived or more oppressed peasants and more luxurious items that aren't normally available to the nobility.


Actually I'm looking more for general weather issues like dust or rain. Endure elements, planar adaptation and the like are good for extreme hazards but not for keeping you dry in a thunderstorm or from inhaling the dust kicked up by your caravan and that's what I'm after.


I'm just wondering resist elements protects you against heat/cold and there's control weather at higher levels. Are there other spells people know of that provide protection against different environmental effects like rain, dust, glare?

I'm looking for two things here first off I'd prefer actual spells designed to protect against non harmful but unpleasant effects like pouring rain or heavy dust clouds. Failing that creative uses of existing spells to provide protection e.g. windwall to protect against a sandstorm.


Well if we're suggesting ideas he was a scout in the army while on rotation in the castle he had a tryst with one of the kings youngest daughters maids. While there he heard a scream and being a loyal soldier rushed to her room along with the maid who thought her charge was having a nightmare where they found her torn remains and a werewolf standing over her. It smacked him aside and ripped the maids throat out leapt out the window picking himself up he followed. Meanwhile other guards arriving saw the blood covered scout escaping from the scene of a gizzly double murder. Firing after him they hit him in the knee with an arrow. Dazed, injured and feaverish he eventually collapse and trnasitioned to a full lycanthrope. Eventually awakening he found he'd been declared a highly dangerous traitor to be killed on sight. Now he adventures to find ...

1) A cure or way to control his curse.
2) Evidence of who was behind the death of the princess and who the lycanthrope was.


Some things are fine e.g. thus wont fit in the game what can we do instead. Dictating to a player that they change choices/actions to fit your ideal isn't. I had one GM I never played an elf with because he had a one true way approah and would overuse your choices ingane if they didn't fit.

When I use random generstors I always let my players choose if they want to come up with their own idea or use them. Some can create very strange results I remember one that generated a background for my character where I had a terrible secret, an evil twin brother, who died when young (gm decides is killed him) as a result of 3 random Rolls)

I now wantto.create a grumpy Irish dwarf who's grumpy because everyone thinks he's Scottish.


Same as the others as a gm I'll name items but as a player I only tend to do it to things I personally created.


kyrt-ryder wrote:

To each his own of course Liam, but '1 foot per rank with an object nearby' strikes me as being completely outside the scope of this thread and almost fits more inside the default Pathfinder game. Heck, Monks can 'slow fall' with a wall up to an eventually unlimited distance in PF core, and Slowfall is one of those typical 'worthless monk class features' that seldom see play and aren't really worth the ink their printed with.

When a simple level 1 spell lets you ignore 60 feet of fall damage per caster level, it's kind of ridiculous to think that being acrobatic can't enable you to better 'absorb the shock' of 5 feet per rank in the skill. (In fact, for my own games I'm likely going to go with 10 feet per rank.)

That wasn't meant to be an example of high level skill use just to illustrate the difference between tricky to do and supernatural effects. You can slow your fall by using a nearby surface through skilled acrobatics, you can't jump off the empire state building s just float to the ground by flipping, twisting and using your elite acrobatics skills. I do have high level skill uses but I figures I'd leave them till I can post the lot. Especially since based on another thread I want to edit them a bit.


Ill post some ideas when I'm not on a phone with a dying battery. However I will say I'm not a fan of the more impossible uses of skills I've seen here (function as featherfall, hold your breath forever) and would prefer more mundane ones. For example you can take no damage for one foot per rank so long as you are within arms reach of a wall/cliff/etc so if you fall off a 30' cliff you take no damage as you tap, hump and generally control your fall for the firsr say 15 feet (15 ranks) you control your fall, then it gets too much and you freefall the rest of the way. So someone with 15 ranks takes a 30 foot fall but only works out damage as if it were a 15 foot one.

EDIT
Maybe take a page from D20 Modern and make profession a "business" skill. That is its just profession not profession - X and represents a knowledge of how to make money from various skills and abilities. So you have profession X ranks and your roll represents you making contacts, convicing people to buy what your selling, advertising campaigns, producing prducts for less than your selling them for etc. If you see what I mean? Only problem would be you need to figure out alternatives for things where it foes het used e.. profession. Sailor, profession soldier. I wouldn't combine it with perform, craft myself. However this way you can ha e craft cooking to make meals and profession to run the resturant. Someone with a high cooking can fail because they don't know how to rin a business while someone who produces rubbish can turn a huge profit because they know how to run a business.


I was looking back through some of my old suppliments and I noticed the entry that elven pregnancies last 2 years (from the days when an elf could live for up to 3,009 years depending on sub-race). Which got me wondering how long a pregnancy for a half breed would take. To use the above as an example a woman pregant with a half elf how long would it last that is would it be based off the mothers race, the fathers race or a mixture? Say its an woven woman would the pregnancy last 9 months, 9-18 months or 18 months?


Shain Edge wrote:
Liam Warner wrote:
5) On the subject of crafting if you can't do magic you can't make a magic item and thats it. Howerr I have taken...

Not by Game rules.

FEAT: Master Craftsman
Your superior crafting skills allow you to create simple magic items.

Prerequisites: 5 ranks in any Craft or Profession skill.

Benefit: Choose one Craft or Profession skill in which you possess at least 5 ranks. You receive a +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill. Ranks in your chosen skill count as your caster level for the purposes of qualifying for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats. You can create magic items using these feats, substituting your ranks in the chosen skill for your total caster level.You must use the chosen skill for the check to create the item. The DC to create the item still increases for any necessary spell requirements (see the magic item creation rules in Chapter 15). You cannot use this feat to create any spell-trigger or spell-activation item.

Normal: Only spellcasters can qualify for the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wondrous Item feats.

Yes and I houserule that doesn't exist. If your a master craftsman you can make amazing things but you can't make something magical. There should have been an in my game at the start of that sentence I'm not sure where it went.


Just a few things posted from my phone.

1) No city expects to catch everyone they just look for the obvious to randomly check e.g the apprentice scanning the gates gets a ping and the guards check everyone more closely. Otherwise its wave, wave, wave "Excuse me sir if you'd just step over here a moment.

2) Any group of adventurers will usually be fairly obvious and checked more closely as to their reasons for entering.

3) Unless your charm person just wont work. Even if its stilled, silent, has no material components and isn't noticed by another guard "Hey he's casting a spell" it only makes the apprentice favourable to you it doesn't mean he's just going to wave you through without question. You need to interract with him and if you ask him to not do his job well did you charm all the other guards and can you complete your business before it wears off and they start questioning things?

4) People seem to be insisting on a medieval style setting which it isn't. Magic is common and its going to change the way things work. Your average serf in rural district 9 will be the same but at higher levels there are going to be changes. Longer lived, healthier, better informed etc. Sure the average baron can't necessarily stop a 15th level wizard but he's going to have plans to deal with magic.

It comes down to magic prevelance and attitude. Magic is present in these peoples lives but how much makes an important difference. You have the range from few mages, few items and the party magic user might be one of 4 in the kingdom up to Everton levels of magi-tech. I have a scale but don't want to post from my mobile. Then you have attitude whig ranges from magic is bad if you see a mage kill them, cut off their hands, remove their tounge and burn their body up to everyone does it and no one thinks about it (when I have access to my computer I'll poist the scales and how they can affect things.

5) On the subject of crafting if you can't do magic you can't make a magic item and thats it. Howerr I have taken expanded master crafting from sonewhere (true 20 I think) so you can make better masterwork items that do things like well made (bonus to damage),, ornate (bonus to diplomacy), durable (more hp) and at the other end of the scale can have penalties. I also am working on an alternate downtime system to earn more gold from profession checks if you have a prolonged period of time to do so as it represents a build up of contacts and reputation rather than the "Hi you don't know me but I made this sword do you want to buy it?"


The Block Knight wrote:
Liam Warner wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

That's true. but the capstone abilities are the reward for staying the course with a single class. I happen to LIKE the idea that multi-classers minmaxing the early levels for survivability cannot get those capstones.

==Aelryinth

It also hurts those who are playing to a concept e.g. my batle mage, 1 level ranger to qualify for 10 levels eldritch knight = effectively an 18th level arcanist who's still 11 levels away from a capstone ability in the arcanist class.
Liam Warner wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:
You do realize that the Prestige classes have their own Capstone abilities, right?
Yes although I've only looked at eldritch knight and it seems a fair bit less useful.

Perhaps, but regardless, that doesn't negate the fact that the Prestige Class still provides a Capstone. It's not a matter of "not getting the Arcanist Capstone", the fact is that the concept (i.e. battle mage via the Eldritch Knight route) still gets "a Capstone". That's sort of the point. And then there are people who feel that 90% of all Capstones aren't that great. So perhaps it's all moot.

So Capstones aside, I think the main thing people were getting at is that testing the later modules while going outside the boundaries of the module expectations (i.e. Max Level is 20, Max Tier is 10), doesn't really test the modules. Unless testing isn't the purpose of your NPC exercise.

THEN I really missed their point. This is my A phase run through to get a hang of the rules, what works, what I need to modify, what I should keep an eye out for. I'm not even running the fights just assuming best case scenario (why the group is 20/9 at the end of book 5 and I've decided to see how far they'll go). B phase I actually run the fights will not find the best way through. Then I'll consider running it for an actual group.


Lich: "Furthermore if I cast my spell on anything else such as this tree." FWOOOM "or this child."
Kitten: "MROW?"
Lich: "You wil note that they are affected its only when I cast on you."
Machinesmith dispells fireball
Lich: "They are dispelled and thus I again put to you that magic is real and it is merely you who are performing it while claiming otherwise thus your entire system of belief is funadamentally floored."
Kitten paws at Lich's robes "MROW, Mao, Mioao!"

EDIT
Speaking of which machinesmiths can only counterspell every second sunday of the month that falls on February 29th in a leap year.


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Look on the bright side I just had to update my wiring rules and whoever was in charge of that amendment of changes was an utter moron. It contained such brillianace as . . .

Delete the sentence "43254 Cabling, control systems and inspection of fire safety mechanisms - fire" and replace it with "43254 Cabling, control systems and inspection of fire safety mechanisms." You'd think it be easier to say in the clause 43254 delete the word fire at the end of the sentence but nooooo. Then there were at least two paragraphs that were deleted to add the letters NZS to the standard applied so it became AS/NZS instead of just AS.


K177Y C47 wrote:
EvilPaladin wrote:
Magic Nerf: Any character with Atheist is gains immunity to divine magic. In addition, they gain immunity to arcane magic if they make a Perform[Disbelieve] check or bluff check v. their own sense motive each year to not believe in magic.

Funny thing that. the 3PP class called the Machinesmith (Machine Smith Linky) with the archetype technologist (LINKY 2.0) can actually "disprove" magic with science, counter magic, and gains SR vs magic because magic is a lie :p.

Oh god, imagine a Machinesmith vs a Lich?

Machinesmith: You cannot exist. By all laws of reality and physics, you are an impossibility and therefore, nothing more than a figment of my imagination.

Lich: .....

Lich: *fires Empowered fireball*

Machinesmith: *Disproves existance of fireball and counter-spells it* See... you are a lie...

Lich: *Facepalm*

Lich: "If the fireball was a lie . . . why did you need to disprove it. I put to you that stand there and do nothing whilst I cast these speells and we see if they work. If they are a lie you need do nothing to remain unharmed but if your actually working to disprove them then by default you believe in them and are merely twisting the hypothesis and the theorum to meet your own preconceived ideas of what makes up reality. Thus you are in fact doing magic and calling it by another name."


Satchmo wrote:
don't forget to make certain you have hands so you can cast spells with somatic components.

If you were in my game I houserule that somatic components DON'T require hands unless you start with them. That is to say a creature spell casts as appropriate for its natural form. So if a creature has paws, tentacles, wings, etc its somatic components are all designed with that in mind. Its why a human shapechanged into an octopus can't use somatic components without the wild shape feat (houseruled a bit) because he's used to having arms that rotate at the shoulders, bend at the elbow and possess five fingers not tentacles that bend and twist along their whole length and end in a point. Same with verbal a creature who naturally talks in in clicks and chirps casts with clicks and chirps but can't form them if shapechanged into a human due to different vocal cords.


Zhayne wrote:
I'm going to assume that this is satire/sarcasm, since the ACTUAL big broken stuff (the spells themselves) has remained untouched.

That's what I assumed.


In that case I propose . . .

Rogue: 1/2 the current skill points, can only sneak attack an unconcious or tied up target, can't disable device over 20, other classes 12.

Monk: Hmmmmm I've got nothing.


HaraldKlak wrote:
Liam Warner wrote:


@HaraldKlak
Of course they get to take racial feats and archetypes at least I assume so bear in mind that the existing spell has a permanent duration change already at 9+ I'm just adding an instantaneous i.e. true change that needs to be reversed rather than dispelled if you can get 11+ on the table.

Actually, they do not, as it is. PAO is an polymorph spell, and they specifically does not change your type or subtype.

None the less, I don't feel too strongly about allowing or disallowing your suggestion. To me, if I were the GM, it would be a consideration of intended use. Unless the was some crazy powerful use in it, I would be inclined to allow it.

I was about to say, that flavorwise I don't see a polymorph spell as instantaneous, but then I found Half-Blood Extraction, which specifically changes a race.

Really so how does that work exactly? I mean say I cast polymorph any object on you and permanently turned you into an elf shouldn't you have access to any and all elf abilities until it was dispelled? Not disagreeing just don't recall seeing that rule and in a case like this it seems to be a problem when your permanently an elf but your not for type/subtype? I know it says in the transmutation section that you don't get all the abilities but it just makes no sense to me when your permanently changed that you don't get them.

I don't really have a specific use in mind I just don't like the fact that at highest levels (duration factor not class, very limited changes really) its a permanent effect and not an instantaneous one. Either way you are altered forever effectively its just that with the exisitng one it can be dispelled, stops if you enter an anti-magic zone, radiates magic whereas with my altered one it can only be reversed as it is what you are now. I'd be less bothered if it always had a duration even if it was measured in days/months but since you can make a permanent change I'd rather it was a proper change and not an ongoing effect. It would also help with the above problem, if you are now an elf you are an elf with all the benefits and drawbacks. If you get changed again into something else you lose the elf abilities (reselecting racial feats and the like).

EDIT
Took a look at half blood extraction level 5, proper permanent change form half orc to orc so I think this effect is balanced then (official lower level spell does similar) thanks.


Zhayne wrote:
I have no idea what any of those things are, but ... if the ritual can turn him into a hag, why can't it change his gender to match?

+1 there are already gender changing spells and items so why not. If she's conducting an experiment she wont really care if he objects to the hagification and maybe she'll even took him into it in exchange for power.

Old coot jokes . . . so tempting "Get outa my swamp you young adventurers."


@Remco Sommeling
Why though? It is an 8th level spell and reincarnate is only 4 while limited wish is 7. This one admitedly gives you more control but the only difference between this and the original polymorph any object is that its gone from dispellable to non-dispellable at the highest level, it can still be reversed and getting an instantaneous change is very hard.

@HaraldKlak
Of course they get to take racial feats and archetypes at least I assume so bear in mind that the existing spell has a permanent duration change already at 9+ I'm just adding an instantaneous i.e. true change that needs to be reversed rather than dispelled if you can get 11+ on the table.

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