Lex Talinis's page

This is a shameless love post. I was happy to receive my Descent into Midnight adventure. I had intended to cancel my subscription before Second Darkness, but then ... who can resist the draw of Drow? But when my final installment arrived, I thought "*Now* I can finally cancel my subscription". After all, these things aren't cheap and I have tons of material already. I don't really *need* another adventure path but ...alas, I'm hooked again. I've always had a soft spot for adventures with Arabian flavor. Just flipping through, the art of Haiten Bhaq had caught my eye. Now not only dare I not cancel my subscription, I'm fairly drooling for the Legacy of Fire! Paizo, you've done it again. I can't wait to explore the delicious possibilities!

Good. I'm really glad to hear that there will be no more spacer levels.

I'm really looking forward to more "meat" (adventure materials) with less "calories" (levels). I mean, don't get me wrong, but at times certain parts seemed a little rushed, if you know what I mean. I found myself embellishing and adding a lot to satisfy my players. Since the adventures will have the same word count just less levels I'm expecting higher quality of material (not to say it hasn't been quality already). Got me excited!

this is bad news, since i buy for BOTH game systems (i.e., NG will be getting a lot of $$$ from me) :)

Matthew_ wrote:

Yeah, that's not a bad idea. I am generally not in favour of exchanging AB for AC on a 1:1 basis (I'm looking at you, Shock Trooper), but it does seem like Combat Expertise is getting the short end of the stick here.

Agreed. I have played almost exclusively as a fighter since back in the days of 1st Ed (I know, I'm a glutton for punishment). The term "Combat Expertise" means exactly that- he is an expert at his form of combat, not that he relies upon mental processes to fight more defensively, which is what this new take on the feat does.

Muscle memory plays the main role in most combat maneuvers, one of the main reasons why the spell-casting classes have--and rightfully so- much slower BAB progression- they rely upon intellect, wisdom or force of personality rather than their muscles or reflexes. At the very least; I suggest making the limit dependent upon your Strength or Dexterity bonus, whichever is the greater of the two. At worst, return it to its original wording.

On the other hand, I have always thought that having to take another feat (Improved Combat Expertise) in order to make this feat worth using at higher levels as needless further punishment (see Fighter lack of skills and class abilities)for not choosing a Rogue or Barbarian to be your main physical combat class. My suggestion is as follows:

Combat Expertise [General]
Prerequisites: Str or Dex 13
Benefit: When you use an attack action or the full attack action in melee combat, you may take a penalty up to as much as your Base Attack Bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (whichever is greater) and add the same number to your Armor Class. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action.

Let's also keep in mind that this is an Alpha test, and may resemble nothing to the Beta test. What I like about Paizo doing this, is that it is an open play test and we players and DMs have direct input and thus influence in shaping the game. This was not the case for 4e.

I suggest sticking around with an open mind until we know what PFRPG is REALLY going to look like.

What the Smurf is going on?!

This makes sense, I get the AC bonus for an abjurer who specializes in protection magic, but not for the conjurer. I really like your suggestion of a "augment summoning" ability.

If I have my characters specialize in a school, I want them to be SUPER at what they do, I think making the abilities even more thematic would be an improvement.

Yes I must admit that I was greatly entertained by the card. But what I liked most was the thought and effort that went into it, and this is why I stuck with Paizo when they lost Dragon and Dungeon. The customer service and attention to detail is unparalleled and greatly appreciated.

Thank you, this is much appreciated :)

No offense taken.

If you're really for evil drow cool then, if not, I've been hit in the face with a pie. :)

I feel mocked...

A couple of thoughts on Drow for Golarion (please feel free to ignore, agree with, or tell me how much you hate the following):

1) What about dropping the term "Drow"?
- Let's call them something else entirely. Dark elves generically, something else that they call themselves. "Drow" feels too FR entrenched to me.

2) I do like dark elves with coal black skin - but just to test the waters - how do people feel about dark elves whose skin tones simply resemble more african american-esque coloration? (I'm specifically thinking of the darker colored elves in ElfQuest, they looked pretty cool).

3) What if Dark Elves' ears are inverted? i.e. instead of the top of the ear coming to a point, their lobes jut out into a sharp point - symbolically making them the inversion of surface elves?

4) Their eyes are completely black and inky - no irises whatsoever. Or alternatively, the irises are just thin golden rings inside of a completely inky black field?

Just out of curiosity, what do people think? What other ideas to differentiate them do people have?

I really don't like number three, nothing personal, just gives a laughable image, not something that strikes terror into my heart... Drow should do that. Becasue they are EVIL. I like Evil Drow ;)

I like the golden Iris idea... makes them exotically EVIL. Did I mention I like Evil Drow?

I agree, keep them so evil that they become synonymous with the word evil. This is a whole new world and they should have a totally different history and maybe some different interactions with other races. Maybe even some racial allies/slaves/masters(?) or something twisted like that :P

Preach on Ken! I too live in the "D" and have been subcontracted by the auto industry. I make 70% more/hour than I did 10 years ago but I'm still only making the same yearly salary! This not only affects the gaming products I buy but everything I have to purchase! I absolutely hate Walmart because of their business practices and refuse to shop there if at all possible choosing the Regional supermarket chain instead (Meijer) because they're putting money into our local economy.

Folks it's so bad here in Michigan that my gaming group has missed gaming most of this summer because fully half of my six players needed to be out on the weekends working crappy part time jobs making little more than minimum wage or be out looking for work. I never thought I'd hear it said that the economy stopped me from playing D&D!!!

All of you at Paizo have done and still are doing a wonderful job. You have made business choices to ensure the success of your company while providing top of the line product for your customers!

You all get A+ in my grade book.

Lex Talinis wrote:

Paizo has been very clear from day one that you can buy JUST the PDF, but if you subscribe you will get that for free. Had you been paying attention you never would have needed to ask such a question. You jingoism is cute, but nothing more than amusing.

What's even more amusing then his jingoism is the fact that he completely ignored your post. :)

This thread is a real bummer to me. Kyle's really talented.

Lex Talinis wrote:

And the bottom line is: Paizo officials have told you that they disagree with you and that it is THIER company and that they will run it as THEY see fit. Your ideas have been weighed measured and found wanting by the Paizo staff. That really is the end of the debate. So assert yourself with honor and take the rejection gracefully instead of being rude to people.

Wow, come down bud. You're flying kinda high :)

Listen, all I've asked of Paizo directly is if I can opt to go PDF only, with the idea that maybe others may want to do it too.

And you know what a beautifull thing about this country is? You, my dear fellow gamer...can feel free to give your money to whomever you wish. You can buy products made wherever you wish (except Cuba). I merely am asking for an option. And that is something that we as Americans are all allowed too.

Go put your head some place cool. Mom will be home soon.

Flynn

You jingoism is cute, but nothing more than amusing. Also, since I am Chinese, I CAN buy from Cuba. While your country has embargo on Cuba, mine does not. Perhaps you should make far less assumptions about people, and listen more. If you did you never would have had to ask.

I like "cartoony" fantasy art and really really enjoyed Kyle's work in Pathfinder 1.

I don't like Downer, but that has nothing to do with the illustrations and everything to do with story.

We DO have drow in our world, but we haven't revealed anything about them and there won't be much in the way for drow-hating elves to do about it for a while.

With out a spider queen, why do they have to be tied to spiders? Personally I love the scorpion, but it could be anything. Why do they have to be mortal enemies without the history of Lolth? I really hope that Pathfinder considers these things instead of keeping the status quo for the sake of simplicity.

Have you all given this any thought or is it for future meetings?

Thank you, I plan to run an Elven ranger myself :)

flynnster wrote:

A) Learn to spell. Or at least make whittier attempts at repartee than intentionally spelling someone's name wrong.

Like "whittier"? I just hate to see the pot call the kettle black; otherwise I'd keep out of this.

flynnster wrote:

B) If you knew me, you'd know that I could care less about "etiquette".

...or grammar, evidently, since you bring up spelling. If you "could care less," that implies a level of caring sufficient to endure loss. To imply that you don't care at all, "couldn't care less" would be more effective (and more correct).

flynnster wrote:

...regardless of whomever else might have said something.

Sorry; more grammar. "Whom" applies to a direct object. In this case, you use it to refer to the person who has said something--a subject relationship--in which case "who" is correct.

And watch out for "rogue," or Fake Healer will jump all over you, too. We may be a bunch of penny-pinching users of Chinese-printed goods around here, but spelling and grammar are taken seriously!

Personally, I agree with Jacobs. If this is such a problem for you simply do not buy the products anymore. Boycott. That is very American form of protest.

Paizo has already said if they did not print in China they would not exist, what is better? Paizo or no Paizo?

And the bottom line is: Paizo officials have told you that they disagree with you and that it is THIER company and that they will run it as THEY see fit. Your ideas have been weighed measured and found wanting by the Paizo staff. That really is the end of the debate. So assert yourself with honor and take the rejection gracefully instead of being rude to people.

this was great! Good job!!

His name is not actually "little bottles" - more like "small peace". That was used mockingly by those that weren't very happy about his crackdown at Tiananmen (well, maybe before too, but I don't know about that). The characters for "little bottles" sounds like his name so it was a Chinese play on words. That's why I jokingly mentioned it - sounds vs. meaning. Nevermind. It wasn't a very good joke anyway. :)
M

Lex Talinis wrote:

Actually - Chinese choose names for their children very carefully, taking meaning into account above all things, not sounds. Most Americans I know choose the name becasue they like the sound, or it is tradition in the family and meaning comes last if at all. To Chinese names mean a lot and are approched much differently than they are here in the west.

Yes, yes. I imagine the Deng "little bottles" XiaoPing would agree with you wholeheartedly. ;)
M

Valegrim wrote:

When I read the Sandpoint stuff, seemed the place was populated by Italians and Japanese hehe made me think Iron Chef Sandpoint.

lol

So true, actually I'm just reading it now.

And about the names thing, the more I think about it, the more it seems to me that a lot more westerners know what their name means than are being accounted for here because their parents tell them or they look it up in a dictionary. The difference between us and say, Chinese, is that our names come from ancient spellings, foreign or dead languages, whereas a lot (but not all) Chinese name are used in the language still. Names like Christian, Moon-unit(hehe) and Smith would be exceptions to the ancient or dead rule, but there are always exceptions, aren't there.

Lex Talinis wrote:

Yes, not to make excuses for rudeness, but many Chinese do not approve of American international politics, and do see them as "raging barbarians." It is used for white people, and unfortunately most westerners get lumped into the same pile as americans, because other governments do not resists American war machine. I mean no insult, but I am trying to help you understand some reasons why Chinese are not open arms about westerners...

No insult; most Westerners feel the same way about the Chinese war machine. Which is why you see a lot of "Free Tibet!" T-shirts around.

I find that many Americans do not like their own war machine and want peace. Chinese people do not know this about Americans, because this is not what the Chinese government tells.

You cannot know what you do not know, and the Chinese people do not know a lot about America that is not told to them by government.

Lex Talinis wrote:

Laowai is not mean, although, it is not polite... it means "outsider" or non Chinese.... and is better than being called Yangguizi by Chinese which is not so nice!

I had a grilfriend once who was from China; her brother found out she was seeing me, and referred to me as the "Low Faan" (or something like that; I may be misremembering). I assumed it meant something like "barbarian," but he didn't like me much, so I never got a chance to ask.

I mean no insult, but I am trying to help you understand some reasons why Chinese are not open arms about westerners...

I believe he is quite correct, as are you. I am half Latvian but I don't know squat about Latvia.

Do they consider me Latvian? It depends who they are and how much they like me, probably. If they want to prove a point about the uniqueness of cultural perspective I am sure they would kick me out of the club, but if I was buying drinks at the bar, I would probably be Latvian again.

Lex Talinis wrote:

Why not adapt Fighter and Rouge to be Samurai and Shinobi?

Because Red, or "rouge" as you typed, can't be adapted to a Samurai or Shinobi-type class. It is a color.

FH

I think the aversion to generalization (ED: and don't get me wrong, lots of generalizing goes on in the west, it's not a sweeping cultural trend or anything) is partially a result of philosophical trends in the west, because it isn't just Americans (I'm not American). Although I concede that a lot of western nations have colonization to live down and guilt may be a factor in our awakening to difference.

Personally, not generalizing is just the way I was raised.

It seems to me, from my five years here in China, that you are quite right about Chinese homogeneity being at the root of the generalization I see around me. In fact, to point out a cultural conflict in this area, it is rather disturbing to some foreigners, when they live in China, to constantly hear suggestions that we should do things the way everyone else does, such as our dietary choices and dressing ourselves. Being advised to fit in is a daily occurrence for Chinese people I am told.

It was interesting to see more young Chinese kids rebelling with outlandish dress last week(had a vacation in Beijing)--things are not what they used to be here in China, and I'm saying that as someone who first came here in 1985.

In China most people do not have TV. In America most have at least one if not more. Most have two cars, in China some towns have no cars in them! Or have very few. Many still farm their own food. China is big, and most of it is nothing like the cities.

If you really want to capture Chinese attention, see a laowai speak good Chinese! :)

Kruelaid wrote:

Yikes!

As it may have bearing on my testimonials on these threads, I have to confess that I am a Canadian who lives in China, but has also lived in America for 3 years, Japan for 6 months, and Korea for a month.

Genetically I am 1/2 Latvian, 1/8 Irish, 1/8 German, and 1/4 Welsh, but I can't speak their languages, although the Irish sounds vaguely familiar.

Oh, where did you live in Japan?

Most Chinese do not see them as Chinese. Perhaps by blood yes, but they are American. Not Chinese.

This does not mean that they do not know their heritage a lot about China... but it does mean that they do not have the same perspective as a Chinese.

Takamori makes good points about it being the same for Japanese. Why would it be different for American or English?

Yes, this is good! I should have said most english speakers.

I find that many Chinese people do not understand the western aversion to generalizing about race and nationality.

Heh...yeah, getting called "LAO WAI!" by a dozen strangers a day is par for the course in China...no biggie, but the street definitely drives both ways it do! :-)

Lex Talinis wrote:

Will you have Snake Heads or the equivalent? This is something fearsome from modern China you can add... Maybe as a guild?

Ooooooo I hate those f***ing people so much. Yeah, a slaver organization akin to the Snake Heads may show up. I f***ing hate them. I've seen first hand the awful repercussions of their human traffiking. I almost joined the FBI out of college with the hopes of getting a crack at these f***heads.

Kruelaid wrote:

No rules. But if your parents give you a strange name the other kids beat you up.

Heh...true that.

So maybe this is why English speakers do not understand why Chinese and Japanese get funny about Chinese and Japanese names :)

Lex Talinis wrote:

Nicolas Logue wrote:

Kruelaid wrote:

I for one will be bending a craggy eye or two at Logue's use of Chinese as he plunders Chinese culture for ideas. Tian Xia is a pretty good ancient name for the land and has my personal and meaningless seal of approval, although it doesn't do too well as the name for a state.

It's not meaningless approval to me Kruel! Keep it coming!!! :-)

Think the name is good. It has a good sound and feel for what I think you want to do with it.

Thanks Lex! I'm very interested in input from yourself, Kruel, Perhuain and any other Chinese or "Old China-hand" readers. You are my demographic! Please all keep in mind though, that I am not going for accuracy, but a D&Dification of a realm inspired by real world China. But keep this awesome feedback coming guys, I am really learning a lot from your responses.

San ren xing, bi you wo shi.

Will you also consider adding Mongol elements?

Kruelaid wrote:

Plus Takamori thinks we shouldn't name them ninja and samurai, so lets makes up some cool names, too. The trick is we've gotta do it without offending anyone's language.

If it's any help, Name them on Croatian if you want to. My woo woo is not offended by people (ab)using my country's language. :-D

I think that Takamori did give suggestions on naming them to not sound silly but still still retain meaning.

This is unfair in my opinion. You are willing to give bad kung-fu movies a free pass, but Pathfinder's...

I can also see how some may get offended. I have great pride in my real name, Sean (last name omitted (hah! Faked you out!)) I get annoyed when someone writes my name as Shaun or other correct spellings, and it irrationally angers me whenever someone misspells my last name (which is easy as all hell to do). There's no reason for my annoyance, what with the monstrosity that is the English language (go us!); it's just I have great pride in my name.

Kruelaid wrote:

I for one will be bending a craggy eye or two at Logue's use of Chinese as he plunders Chinese culture for ideas. Tian Xia is a pretty good ancient name for the land and has my personal and meaningless seal of approval, although it doesn't do too well as the name for a state.

It's not meaningless approval to me Kruel! Keep it coming!!! :-)

Sect wrote:

Nicolas Logue wrote:

I think the ruler of Tianxia considers him or herself "ruler of everything under heaven"...I can't wait to see what Cheliax thinks about that. ;-)

Ethnocentrism at its best, of course.

It's gonna be awesome.

Lex Talinis wrote:

Now as I do not speak Japanese, I do speak Chinese. And like Japanese name, Chinese names all have deep rooted meaning. To just "make up" a Chinese name would serve nothing but to make the Chinese shake their head and call you crazy laowai. It also shows ignorance and disrespect to the culture. Now The Japanese have relaxed a little but the Chinese are still highly motivated by honor and are easily insulted by things Americans find trivial. It is also part of what gives Americans the stigma of arrogant and dishonorable to the Chinese.

The thing is Lex, the goal was not to create "Japanese" names, (and the goal with a lot of Tianxia may not be to create "Chinese" names) but rather to create Minkai names (and Tianxia names). It's a distinct difference, though I'll grant you, so far names I create for my "Asian" home games and projects use a lot of "real world" Japanese and Chinese names. So there ya go, I guess I don't really know where I stand on the naming conventions...except to say I am not at all insulted by the names in Pathfinder #1 and no one I know is either (including my Japanese friends, this topic really interested me so I called many of them today to chat about this). I think insulting is too strong. I think these are common overreactions of western scholars who have appropriated "authentic" Asian culture as their own (I totally understand this, I've been there! And sometimes I'm still there!!!). ;-)

I find it it frustrating that many westerners think that if it sounds Chinese, it is passible.

As I have said before, I do not think that Paizo did a bad job, but I do think that if they wish to use Chinese names for the nation, perhaps they should for the people too. Likewise, if they model a kingdom after Japan, which they have done (or why use Japanese sounding names?), why not use japanese naming convention? From their responses I think that they do like this idea and will use it.

I am no more insulted by this bastardization, than I am when I watch american made "kung fu" movies. I take them for what they are, and shake my head (with a amused smile on my face). Would I like people to treat my culture with less frivolity in fantasy? Yes. But who DOES want their culture to be misrepresented.

Perhaps Americans would be annoyed if in fantasy a kingdom "inspired" by them had a illiterate king who is a religious zealot with an Int. of 6. The citizens where slothful and fat, and where known for being loud, rude, proud, cocky, arrogant, and bad dressers. They were also an aggressive kingdom verging on being bullies. I'm sure that would upset a few people.

Likewise, I dislike that Chinese are portrayed as mystic, "kung fu" fighting, xenophobic, baby killers. Those stereotypes, get spread and are often celebrated in fantasy. Not every Chinese knows "kung fu". Not all are spiritual people. But we are prideful people and often this "orientalism" as someone called it is seen as mockery, not flattery. I know it is done out of ignorance, and it is not anyone being mean - but it still makes us shake our heads, and sometimes enough is enough. Perhaps you understand this?

It's really nice to see everyone happy on this thread again. By the way Lex, where are you? (I am posting from Shandong province in the PR or China.)

Why not adapt Fighter and Rouge to be Samurai and Shinobi?

Sect wrote:

I really hope that someone starts up another arguement about languages, because I'm about to go off on a tangent about katanas and wakazashis in D&D.

Remember back when katanas did 1d12 and wakizashis did 1d8, simply because they were forged with super-secret Japan power? That was beofre everyone realized that they were just bastard swords and short swords respectively, and weren't all masterwork Hattori Hanzo death-blades.

Lex Talinis wrote:

Kirth Gersen wrote:

Lex Talinis wrote:

Then perhaps we had a misunderstanding of eachothers intentions.

I agree; that seems to be the case. Language is sometimes inexact, as we're learning from this thread!

English is really hard too... it is a very illogical and confusing language... I find German to be most logical, but even it can be confusing...

There's a reason why, according to the American Military, English is the sole Class Five language.

Lex Talinis wrote:

Sect wrote:

Azzy wrote:

Hill Giant wrote:

(Which is why my words for 'ninja' and 'samurai' are 'rogue' and 'fighter'.)

Yours, too?

Of course, the fighter needs a little help in that department (the rogue is fine). To that end, I've house ruled fighter to get 4 +Int skill points per level and changed their skill list to: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

This way, the fighter can fill the role of knight, samurai, swashbuckler, or whatever. Y'know, the way it should be.

YES.

It's always been my opinion that Fighters get screwed in the skills category. They COULD at least get more class skills...

I agree, which is why I homebrew a new skill list for fighters...

I really hope that someone starts up another arguement about languages, because I'm about to go off on a tangent about katanas and wakazashis in D&D.

Well said Isuru, I must have met the same sort of historical sticklers you have, as that sounded oh so familiar.

If you aren't interested in the language in fantasy issue then you'd er... better skip the rest of this post, because I got a bit carried away! If you are intersted then great, because I''ve thought about it a bit and I'd really like to hear what other people think about this issue.

[SPOILER]As a fantasy fan and a person who's studied linguistics the issue of languages in fantasy fascinates me. Most people have heard the old Greek Fire vs. Alchemist's Fire thing, but if you think about it EVERYTHING in fantasy is inherently a contradiction in this sense. Obviously it's silly to name something in a fantasy world "Greek Fire" when Greece is a nation of Earth, but by the same token alchemists are a product of a specific earth cultural tradition. The word "alchemist" is of arabic etymology I'm pretty sure. How could that word exist if there was no Arabia? To whom does it refer? Or are we imagining that the chracters are using a totally different word and "Alchemist" is our translation of it? If that's the case then what's wrong with using "Greek Fire?" That is what the substance is called in English after all.

And don't get me started on fantasy writers who interchange between fantasy words and English against all logic. Like this:

"He broke a piece off the ektara, then put the remainder in his pouch underneath his khutaan, the long cloak that all the desert tribesmen wore." If ektara means "flat bread" and khutaan means "long cloak" then why the hell isn't any of the rest of the guy's clothing and equipment written in Desert Tribesman Language? It's all culturally unique as well, with presumably it's own names in the relevant tongue.

The reason writers do things like this is to create a mood of the exotic, because that's what fantasy is; it's like going on a holiday to a place that's still Earth basically, but different. It's a balancing act. Too...

Lex Talinis wrote:

Then perhaps we had a misunderstanding of eachothers intentions.

I agree; that seems to be the case. Language is sometimes inexact, as we're learning from this thread!