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Lefty X's page

116 posts (146 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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LazarX wrote:
The point that I'm making is that the player economic model for the game is still based on Gygaxian's Gold Rush model which was designed to separate players from their gold quickly in order to motivate them to loot the next dungeon. That focus hasn't changed in Ultimate Campaign. The economy...

Sorry, but, no one has denied your point. Also, who has said we should change it?

LazarX wrote:

Gygax flat out admitted that the game was modeled after California's Gold Rush economy that was endemic to the various gold rush boom towns in which people DID pay ounces of gold ore for basic necessities as they had no choice in the matter. He said he did it that way because he wanted the flavor of adventurers obtaining and spending gold like free flowing water. He flat out didn't care that this would cause a dissonance with anything even resembling a midieval economy.

There was a comic that lampshaded this disconnect. (Might have been Order of the Stick) You'd see the various shops which would advertise a normal midieval level of economy. Then a young boy comes running in Paul Revere style shouting "Adventurers are Coming!" Like magic the signs would flip where prices that were described in copper or silver pieces became gold instead.

This is pretty much my reply to anyone who thinks that for a second, that any incarnation of D20 from D+D to Pathfinder was rooted in economic simulation.

It was, in fact, Order of the Stick. Like I have said before, no one can look at the economics and think they are based on a real model. Gygax did say that thing about the Gold Rush style market, and he and Arneson created the basis for our hobby, but that was 40 years ago. I don't want to go to the trouble of creating a realistic economic model and maintaining it in play anymore than you do, but with all due respect, I think saying, "But, Gary Gygax said X" is a little like like saying "Sure Sammy Sosa hit a lot of home runs, but so did Babe Ruth!." Ruth did hit a lot of home runs. While playing a much more archaic form of the sport... Also, while on cocaine. ;)

Sure, and that's why in the game it's tidy little sums, like "That'll be 3 gold for the room and meals for you and your friends each night." PCs of any decent level won't even notice that kind of money leaving their purses. However, if you try and look at it from a normal person's perspective, you'll stop and think "Wait a second. This jack-wagon wants AN OUNCE OF GOLD for some meals and a roof to sleep under?"

Edited for bad math.

EWHM wrote:

Lefty X,

She works, producing value, she just probably works at your home. She probably tends his garden, cooks, washes his clothes, cares for their children, and does all the million things that made homemaking a full time job before the advent of massively labor saving devices. Most of the wages of peasants though aren't in coin, the 1sp/day is just the equivalent value of what they get.

Okay, but taking that one step further, and assuming something ridiculous, like 1SP for a sweater she knits. Her efforts haven't probably produced an actual SP. It has produced an SP worth of goods that the family values, like eggs for a fortnight, or something. Either way, those commoners don't actually have more money, they have more subsistence goods.

EWHM wrote:

Lefty X,

A poor family is probably making 6 gp/month if you assume both parents work at 1 sp/day (unskilled) and that their children have no economic contribution. So their tithes are closer to the order of 7.2 gp per year, not far from 'list price' on CLW.
If they're a middle class family (skilled), they might be making 33 gp or so a month (assumes one is skilled and the other is making unskilled wages,) or even 60 gp/month. Tithes on them might range from 36-72 gp per year.

In a pseudo-middle ages society, they won't both work. The wife might have a side cottage industry, but might not. I am not talking about middle class, I mean peasants, i.e. most of the populace. 1SP/day is what the PCs are expected to pay for unskilled labor, not necessarily what a farmer or day laborer makes if you take his yearly income and divide by 365. I know we are arguing semantics and real vs. fantastical really, but I don't visualize most commoners walking around with a lot of clink in their pocket. The prices for food, board, and services in the books is, again in my opinion, what people charge wealthy middle class chump adventurers, not what the average person might get. If we are talking the cost of a low-average quality meal, for instance, coins of precious metal shouldn't even be in the mix. Let's say you go to nice restaurant and pay $50.00 for your meal. That would be high quality (presumably.) That might cost a GP in most Pathfinder games. One Pathfinder GP today is worth $428.00 U.S. (1/3 of an ounce at $1285.00 per ounce.)

TL:DR, The game economy is pretty borked if you look too hard.

lemeres wrote:
I think part of the problem of a more realistic system for healing is that even with just HP, there is about 2 hp difference between "I'm beat up, but I'll sleep it off" and "I am bleeding to death in the next two minutes." When I hear about death in premodern medicine, there are times where it often took days for people to actually pass on. Even Abraham Lincoln, who was shot in the head at point blank range, took about 9 hours to die. That could be 32 miles covered to get to a cleric in game.

"High Priest Frank, here is the Curative Twig." the acolyte blurted as he ran up to the alter, nimbly dodging around the moaning forms, evidence of last nights terrible gnoll assault.

Frank quickly grabbed the offered item and used a charge to bind together a vicious sword gash along a young lady's right rib line. She might need two, but he didn't want to be wasteful. This was the last wand.

"How many did that group of sell-swords need after I left you at the vestibule?" he asked his assistant.

"36 charges." the acolyte replied promptly.

"... What do you mean 36 charges?!?" Frank demanded. "How badly could they have been hurt?"

"Mostly scratches." the student priest replied. "But, the fighter also said he wasn't "nearly as tired or unable to continu combat, anymore."

Oh, well, thought Frank. I can always pawn off some of the candelabra and head into Greyberg next month for the components to build a replacement.

Whale_Cancer wrote:

This is a huge problem in the system, as I agree with you. But, you know, why wouldn't the good aligned temples just provide free healing (and other curative effects) to the PCs when the PCs are fighting against evil? Why wouldn't they provide similar free healing to their fellow clergy, paladins, inquisitors, etc.,?

What prevents a caster from undercutting the normal spellcasting rates to beat his competition, since casting requires so little effort?

Magical healing does require a huge suspension of disbelief.

The system was not designed with the whole world in mind, as you well know. It was designed around the idea of the personal power of 4-6 people taking on far greater power than their own, with little help from the "supporting cast" of typical NPCs. Both the magic system and economy shatter if you try and make them "real." Which is a reason why I like Eberron. That world makes those two aspects a little closer to believable while still remaining playable.

If the PCs are openly battling evil, heck yeah the local churches should be supporting them with free spellcasting, if available. Forcing them to pay a casting tax of a few paltry gold (not counting component heavy spells) when it makes more plot since to make it free during their crusade seems silly.

Nothing prevents them from undercutting. But setting up shop for day-in, day-out patching and mending the locals is not why your PC got into adventuring.

Weirdo wrote:

And what if a powerful healer (say, a PC) walks into a small settlement and starts healing people all over the place? How significant an effect might they have?

That PC would wreck any selfishly motivated healer price-fixing going on and would be targeted to be dealt with either by conversion, threat, or violence.

EWHM wrote:

Lefty X,

If you're a congregation member in good standing (this is to say, you tithe your income to your particular church or equivalent thereof), a lot of faiths will heal you without charge for a lot of things, if they're within the ability of their local talent. If not, you'll probably have to pay full retail.

Sure, presuming a tithing of 10% and an income of around 1GP per month, you are kicking 1.2GP back to the church every year. CLW from a 1st level caster is 10GP. Your family's tithe for 8.5 years to pay for 1 CLW? I agree and reiterate, a local priest casting spells with no expensive components would heal free of charge unless they were unscrupulous, or they had some other motivating factor to charge their patients, like they really needed to fund a civic project and the recipients appeared flush with cash, and/or were jerks.

Magical medical care is just one of those things you either have to hand-wave, or work around. Your local priest, if a spellcaster, gets 3-4 cures per day. In a village of 100-200 people, how many potentially fatal accidents are there wherein the victim is not killed instantly and the priest has time to get to them? Not super frequently. Therefore anytime someone is injured, but not instantly killed, there is a very good chance the healer will get to them, or they will get to the healer, in time. As for the old school answer of charging for healing, I find it hard to conceive of a priest not healing citizens in good standing while their relatives frantically running around trying to scrape up the cash. The priest has to live in that village too.

I agree Morgen. I am thinking of rewriting these as special feats for the Merciful Healer. I picture the Merciful Healer as being the most common of magically active priests. You know the local cureall who helps out those in need because they are touched by the light, etc.

Vamptastic wrote:

That's actually an interesting idea.

I get one right every now and again. ;)

For personalized racial redesigns, I think the easiest thing is to just have everyone roll as a human and make everything about their race be fluff. Think of Usagi Yojimbo. Why make races for every single kind of animal? "You're a rabbit samurai? Okay, you probably want to put the floating +2 into Dex. You're a rhino bounty hunter? Maybe +2 Str and take Toughness as the free feat?"

There is literally no reason not to do this with any race you want. For really funky ones, likes those with flight abilities, or non-Medium sized, you would have to tweak. Don't make too much work for yourself.

I have looked all over this site for these. They seem like an automatic money maker. They would make running them game so much smoother.

Damn it, someone hacked Betts' account, again.

I play on Molten and am pretty pleased, but for one detail.
I really want to play PvE. I don't like being ganked and have no interest in ganking return. Do any of the fly-a$$ mofos here on know of a quality private PvE server for WoW?

Thank you in advance!


+3/+3 sounds correct to me. Why take the trait? As a monk, aren't you already proficient with all weapons with the "monk" quality?

Making your own adventures is a breeze. Start at the end I the movie and work backwards. Flip through the monsters. Pick a tough one and make them your bad guy. Pick a set of minions for that bad guy, and maybe a chief henchman, who is often an up-leveled minion, like an Orc warrior with a few fighter levels. Decide what the bad guy's scheme is. This is usually Destroy/Kill, Item/Person X. Why are they doing it? How can you get the players onto their trail before they succeed. Then there's a Goblin attack during the town festival and your ready to go.


Forget that noise, HerosBackpack. We need more Joe Wood!

Mystic Twin:
+2 to all saves. Anytime you make a saving throw by 2 or less,
Your twin suffers half the effect, regardless of their location.

When in combat, with your twin as an ally, both of you receive a
+1 bonus to initiative. In addition, whenever you and your twin
flank an opponent, you each receive an additional +1 bonus to hit.

Aaaaand, pres man for the win.

None of the deities created by TSR or WotC are Open Content, correct? Specifically, Taiia and Elishtar.

I know the AP write-ups aren't SRD, but I think that would be a cool thing for them to put up for free. ALL of the iconics' 1st level stats in one big PDF. Especially considering we aren't getting anymore base classes anytime soon.

So has anyone taken the level 1 versions from the AP and put them online, or posted them? I'm not trying to bypass buying them, but it would be a silly investment for 2 pages of stats.

Does anybody know if there is a PDF with the 1st level wrote-ups of all of the iconics

I am going, but so far there has been very few normal RPGs posted to the slot board on the website. I hope there are some pick-up games. I am not a PS member, but I wouldn't mind playing in one of the events.

Steve Geddes wrote:
Souphin wrote:

A world book (like the axed gazetteer of nentir vale) and something urban flavored (waterdeep sourcebook would be my choice).

I prefer Pathfinder over 4E, but Nentir Vale was something I was actually wanting to buy. I think Fallcrest is a fantastic starting area, and if my E6 Eberron game gets off the ground again, it will be mostly there. So, basically, I wish they would publish what they have.

Okay, so disgruntled Australians aside, anybody actually going?

Do to switching Internet providers, I haven't had a chance to listen to their podcast yet. I'll probably download it this weekend. I was told of the Con by a friend and we're carpooling there from KC. Having not listened, I have to ask do you object to the idea of roleplaying focus, or do you feel the host over emphasizes it/denigrates peeps who just want to blow up Orcs?

Bump due to forum shift.


Who's planning on going and/or running something.

We use 22 point buy.

Alternate advancement system. Google it.
Short version: Level normally until 6th level, then you get an extra feat every 5000 exp. Every five "Epic" feats, and your level for CR purposes goes up by 1.

Allow me to add a caveat.
It's an E6 game.

No Arcane Spell Failure.
Full Attacks as a Standard action.
Some system wherein casters add their casting stat bonus to spell effects.
Pulling the 5 tier alignment system from 4E. (Which feels stolen from 1E Warhammer anyway.)

Do any of these things feel, legitimately, like they would make the system go blooey?

Thanks for the info.
Actually, I was interested in the party's casters being high level, but staying away from the "game breaker" spells. More chances of building challenging, non-instakill encounters. Of course nothing stopping players from demanding their own characters be used, therefore letting the spells back in.

Does your group have play experience at high level?

This is not an entry. Just something playing in my mind, and I would like some opinions.

Is this a decent party? High level play (16-20), no great need for a Rogue or Ninja.


Has Paizo published an AP or module using a non-core book PC, other than Seltyiel?

Hyperlink Y U NO LINK?


Why must the Jerkfaces at Paizo let me know about something I can't get until October+, when I want to buy it yesterday?


Winnegan's fake. wrote:
Hiroshima Chuo Police Station TEL 082-224-0110

Thanks very much!

I see Elf. Would Half-Elf be OK? Could I take a feat from Complete Adventurer? (Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting)

Having a custom hoodie print done and I need a piece of info from any world travellers out there. What is the name and number of the police precinct that covers Peace Memorial Park in Hiroshima?

You know how prophecies are, he may have been referring to the reign of the King in Yellow.


I just read Insylum the other day.

The ghosts of the people attending a dress ball who were murdered by their hosts?

A crew of extra-dimensional Half-Elf/Half-Shadow creates planning on using this as a staging point for a massive invasion? <These creatures, we find out, are what happens to the fractured and lost parts of the Elven and Human souls when the two species interbreed.

Lastly, the remaining refuge of the pleasant aspects of the afterlife. The rest of you campaign world's afterlife has been destroyed in a titanic war that the mortal world has yet to be made aware of.

Pastiche time!

Everyone wants Epic play, psionics, and other planets.

A group of 16th level PCs are recruited to conquer a Mega-Dungeon style stronghold on Akiton that was the actual birthplace of the Tarrasque. The entrance to this dungeon is at the bottom of a massive and ancient impact crater. It is controled by a cult of Rovagug. While on this world and in the crater and accompaning dungeon, the cult members have access to very powerful psionics. This is the result of the psychic shockwave of the deaths caused by the impact thousands, if not millions of years ago. At the Center of the Dungeon? A key to awakening Rovagug? A clue helping an entire group of people make it to the Starstone at once? Who knows.

Now Paizo can give us 16th level builds for all of the iconics, or you can start the campaign with the PCs you have worked hard to build up from a previous AP.

Could you do one more? I would love to see your Warforged.

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