The farther your game gets ramped up in difficulty, the fewer concepts can be made effective enough to survive it.
this is what this thread should be about, not optimization
but I would clarify to say that it is not quite 'difficulty', but the escalation of oneupsmanship between the players and the GM.
1. One side brings it
while some people may thrive on the concept of the challenge and the competition, I would venture to say that for most groups this is not a healthy game and that it will eventually generate bad feelings
WHY NOT JUST COMBINE THEM?
I JUST DID LIKE SIXTEEN BACKFLIPS ACROSS A BUNCH OF ROOFTOPS ONLY TO PULL A WHIRLWIND ATTACK SURPRISE-ROUND SNEAK ATTACK WITH A REACH WEAPON ON EVERYTHING IN RANGE
...MY BUDDY AND I HAVE THE LOOKOUT FEAT
P.S. I STOLE YOUR WALLET
I've seen "Siege Archer" builds that get around the lack of clarity by keeping a mount, animal companion or pack animal near them that is carrying a quiver of Large-sized arrows.
They get Gravity Bow and Enlarge Person going, then launch Large-sized arrows that they pull from the quiver located on their animal adjacent to them.
Lemmy that is the dang point I have been trying to impress upon threads like this for quite awhile
all I am imploring you guys to do when talking in-depth about the classes is to at the very least quantify your statements in a rough level range
many of the problems that you guys bring to the forefront are simply going to be either marginal or non-existant below level 6 or so
there is a strong grouping of the player base that will certainly play more often at or below those levels, than they will above them
that is it, writer
we will duel at dawn
actually we will not because once we roll them up they will be laughed at and theorycrafted into the ground in this thread until we both run away sobbing
I mean like a drink-a-beer-in-the-shower-while-crying kind of sobbing
and thank you jessica price for removing the post that when taken out of context from all the others made me look like a total creeper
now people can forever wonder what was said as this gleaming gem of a thread stands the test of time
ashiel are you in like a wormhole or is this just the day where you reference things from long ago like old posts or zubaz pants
the point is that with a fighter, you can conjure up feat-intensive builds and feat progressions faster than any other class
when you are building at level 10, 15 or 20 with eleventy hojillion gold and 16.239% of a wand this might not matter, but it does to a lot of players who have their first 9 PFS sessions under their belt and get to try a feat progression set they've never seen before in a build they might not otherwise be able to execute in any reasonable length of time
yes maybe you get to a certain point and you realize hey, I can do this thing I am doing better with x then with the y I currently have
this is good thing and signals growth as a player
but that is meaningless if the player is scared out of learning for themselves by the innundation of repetitive generalizations that have mostly been garnered from going way down the theorycrafting rabbit hole, either min/max-wise or character-level-wise
I'm sure this is some kind of metaphor for how some people can see naughty things in something innocent
Parachiropractor Zarta Dralneen, helping Golarion work out their kinks, one pathfinder at a time
(okay sometimes two or three pathfinders at a time)
"so guys I rolled up a lore warden fighter"
"oh man what are you doing a bard will just own you on the skills anyway and there are like a ton of martial classes that can do better combat maneuvers and CMB anyway is just useless at high levels man, what are you thinking?"
"okay so what level are we starting at?"
"and who else is in the party?"
"...uh, well, a sorcerer, a summoner and a magus."
my sass tends to come to the forefront in threads like this because they often completely throw player skill, player knowledge and character level completely out the window
patiently explaining to me how at level 16 my build is going to hurmph durmph up and be less than fresh is pretty much just the equivalent of postcount+1 because I am most likely off crushing a burrito instead of reading it
one because burritos are just the best and two because I am playing a level 4 PFS character
and four because it is also the exact opposite tone from how I will sit with new players and draw them in with enthusiasm and setting a good example of cogenial friendly play while helping them with the concepts that will allow them to grow to be better players, both in the attitude they bring to events and in their enjoyment/knowledge of the game
there was a three I think but I am going to go get coffee
using Valeros as a pregen in PFS was one of the greatest moments in my Pathfinder playing time
I do not think the other players were used to hearing him say 'bro' so much or volunteering 'to crush some burritos with a cold cerveza or three'
but to be on-topic warriorpoet I do not think it is the location of the sexual orientation, in this case in the fluff
it is the very existence of the sexual orientation
the people who are mad about it either have a problem with that specific orientation or they simply do not want it foisted into the hobby where they are pathfinding their dungeons and their dragons
you are probably not going to get a different reaction by announcing whether or not it is canon, core, fluff, homebrew, alternate universe or the all-powerful Word of a Voltron that is made out of the combined powers of sean, james and jason
okay so voltron might be missing some body parts since there are only like three names there but still you get the point
EDIT: and dangit did you rewrite your last post to include that last line or did I just miss it the first time because it says basically just what I said only in a way that is more concise and actually makes sense
Just you, seven hamsters and no one to disturb you.
Matthew Morris wrote:
no no it is a picture of Valeros being patted on the back by a group of paizo forum people who are not posting terrible things about his class
Donald Robinson wrote:
I think you used 25 Point buy here (just took a quick peek so I could be wrong).
Nah, he went Dual-Talent, alternate human racial trait for two +2's, rather than one. One in STR, one in WIS. He just didn't mark the STR +2.
Also hi5 for Lore Warden builds
If your Ranger/Wizard looks exactly like every other Ranger/Wizard, either you are ONLY looking at his stats, or you aren't roleplaying him any different.
No see my wizard's name is Gabdalf not Gandalf and his robes are are ecru, not white
oh yeah his beard is also totally longer
My friend playing his PC with one hit point left tried to convince me that I should perform some healing before the BBEG finished his character off.
During my turn I gave him a patient explanation of action economy, DPR and all of my accrued knowledge from the Paizo forums.
It seems he didn't listen very well since the BBEG subsequently killed his character right after my turn in the round.
(Just do smart things and respond to situations appropriately, good things will happen and there will be puppies, possibly candy and occasionally some rainbows)