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Devargo Barvasi

Kyle Lefever's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Society Member. 53 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character.


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Dark Archive

I've been stewing on running a campaign that is a blend of several of the Ap's and thought that with all of the recent support for Magnimar, why not run CoCT there with some minor changes?

I was looking at beginning the Campaign with the PCs relatively new in town and witnessing the Festival wherein the the Lord Mayor and Ileosa get married. Shortly thereafter they are contracted to intercept a shipment of an unknown substance from leaving the island of Ordelia, (using the portion of the Skinsaw Murders in Magnimar minus the Clocktower). Upon arrival they interrupt a meeting between Ironbriar and a Red Mantis assassin, who are negotiating the sale of Vorel's Phage. The Mantis makes off, leaving the PCs to deal with Ironbriar.

Leaving there they learn that the Lord Mayor is ill and that the Lady Mayor has been named Queen Regent, until such a time as the Lord Mayor revokes the status. Afterward, they are led to Misgivings where they must investigate the disease.

Upon their return to Magnimar, the lord mayor has passed and the tainted ship and monies have arrived inciting seven days to the grave. Upon the completion of this they find the Chelish Crux among the belongings of the Urgathoans, indicating that something of note was hidden in the closed pathfinder hall of Delvehaven (relocated to Magnimar), leading the PCs to undertake What Lies in Dust, with the hilt of Serithtial replacing the Morrowfall, and inserting a treatise on Kazavon, his downfall and his legacy.

With the hilt in hand the PCs begin to realize what they are facing and race off to Windsong Abbey (where the pommel gem has replaced the Shard of Envy) then to Scarwall (where the full weapon can be reforged following the recovery of the blade). Once the weapon is reforged the PCs return to Magnimar and complete Crown of Fangs to wrap up the campaign.

Any thoughts on how to improve or modify the campaign for a more logical or streamlined approach? I enjoy the parts of the AP's that I picked, and they seemed to work together fairly well, with only minor changes mechanically for them to work.

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Thank you much Jessica. I know you guys have a lot going on right now and I don't mean to be abrasive. I was just shocked as I looked at my subs and saw all of them stack up for one month. It's certainly not enough to turn me away. Keep up the great work and I look forward to all of the products coming soon.

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So ummm.... just checked my subscriptions and this has been pushed back yet again? to January? I love everything that Paizo does product wise, but seeing all of the development that's going on with the online game space, a card game and mythic rules, while also switching to a "monthly product line," I'm seeing a disturbing trend as far as tardiness on some of them. Honestly getting hit for $130 in one month for my subscriptions that do not include the core rulebooks seems a bit much. An reason why this is happening?

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James Jacobs wrote:
DungeonmasterCal wrote:

Does this mean there will be a Champions of Corruption and Champions of Balance to follow?

*shivers with antici...........pation*

Not necessarily. But possibly.

I am VERY interested in THIS^... One of the things that I have always loved about the Pathfinder system and setting is that it has almost always been even handed with the release of support for the "good folks" and "bad folks". I would hate to see that paradigm left behind...

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I also noticed that the campaign setting and players companion lines have a delay scheduled in them. October is real light from a sub perspective, with November getting hit pretty hard. I'm not particularly worried, but that is getting dangerously close to the holidays and empty pocketbooks...

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Our group played through the first about half of the adventure, and I have to say we are having a blast with it. Lots of flavor, good pacing throughout, nice mix of combat, rp and skill usage. The NPCs thus far have been interesting and well thought out. I will probably review this one after our party finishes up the entire thing, and thus far I am impressed. None of the other APs in the last couple of years have really grabbed us like this has.

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I think that is a very interesting idea. I can definitely see a bunch of the abilities being drawn from the various ports the pirates put into. I think the rigging ninja mentioned above could fit anywhere. I would be very interested to see how the GM handles the above ninja, specifically on how the development of the ninja grows. Also as an aside for Archanjel, why does it need to be Asian flavored to incorporate a ninja? I understand the actual historical basis behind the PRPG ninja, but why cant one exist in Golarion outside Tian Xia, the most obviously asian influenced continent? Beyond a bard and possibly a paladin, the ninja is one of the strongest options for the AP as far as I've seen.

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1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hungarian, Finnish and Korean have more in common than any single language spoken by a bordering country of either Korea, Finland or Hungary.

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James, You have mentioned a couple of times now how some of the PrCs based on some of the existing archetype are viewed as the professional side of the "in-training" archetypes. I'm curious then how much they will differ from the archetypes and what is genuinely added. With the Aldori Swordlord,you have a series of passive aggressive options, that allow a fighter to become the supreme master of defensive fighting, and IMHO, make deviating any time before 12th level silly. Can you speak to how these PrCs will be attractive options for the mid-level character? I know it is still very early in the development stage and if certain details are revealed too early you will be getting a visit from the Anaphexia,but I am genuinely interested in knowing where the PrCs are going to be aimed in the life of a 20 level character growth.

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James Jacobs wrote:
JCServant wrote:

So...question...I heard during an interview that this was one module where Paladins were pretty much going to be banned because their concept doesn't fit well with the theme of the AP. What about other Good aligned type characters? From the Chaotic Good rogue to the Lawful Good Cleric...will they fit in here?

I have a group that I believe would like this, but I do have a player who stated, "Attacking innocents, robbing, stealing... not my idea of fun." I want to make sure this AP is a good fit for my entire group before I invest. Thanks!

Skull & Shackles' plot is "The PCs are pirates who are trying to become better pirates by doing pirate things." There IS of course more to it than that... but lawful characters are going to find themselves put in tough situations very often. The good part doesn't really matter—look at any pirate movie ever made and there's great examples of good aligned pirates in there. No... it's hte LAWFUL component of an alignment that'll clash with this AP's plot.

And even then... most lawful characters will still be able to enjoy some elements of the AP... but of them all, only the Paladin has not only a strict adherence to the alignment most oppositional to piracy... but frankly, it's the TRADITION and the INERTIA that paladin codes have in most game groups that makes them poor choices for this AP. When a lawful good character does something in a game that's not particularly lawful or good, players (and often not the GM) seem often not to notice, but when the paladin does that same thing... the game derails.

In the end, whether or not a paladin is a good choice for Skull & Shackles is up to the GM. Some GMs and parties are a lot less strict about paladins. It's a question you'll have to answer for yourselves.

That said... there's a reason "Skull & Shackles" is far from the first AP we've published. It, more than any other AP, moves pretty far from the baseline assumption that the PCs are heroes doing adventures for the greater good. You...

As a potential avenue, and obviously I havent seen the final versions of the AP, I would suggest nation backed privateer for your players who have characters that aren't as free and loose with the moral obligations. Its pretty easy to imagine an Andoran Privateer Paladin, sailing the Inner Sea and beyond policing Pirates along the way. Even infiltrating into the biggest den of pirates this side of Golarion as a Paladin is a quest of epic proportions and worthy of any plater willing to buck the story just a touch. Requires a bit of a re-work, but what AP doesnt have a bit of extra thrown in? Kingmaker was so successful due to the fact that there was so many different roads you can walk. I see no reason why you couldnt do the same with another fairly open AP such as this.

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I have been perusing the style feats, and several of the feats for use of firearms, and, aside from sword and pistol, there are a surprising lack of Style options when it comes to firearms, period, let alone blending them. I play in a small circle of players where most of us trade DM duties, and two of the three of us that do DM are keen on the idea. I personally have a soft spot for the Aldori Dueling style and was curious if anyone could help me out with developing that style into a two weapon one using a pistol(or other appropriate single handed weapon) and Aldori Dueling Sword.

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And another tally for Iobaria... every since i first read about it, i wanted to know more!!! and I also second some stats for more of the Runelords, not necessarily all of them, but one or two would be nice. Cheers!!!

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I havent gotten mine yet...sad face... are the good folks at Paizo still chugging through the subscriptions?

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Has anyone received the PDF yet? I see it is available in print... am I reading that wrong?

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James Jacobs wrote:
Kyle Lefever wrote:
Now that we are on the topic of Thassilon, between the hints concerning Zutha's Phylactery and by your response can we expect a product with a decent bit of Thassilonian goodness??? I know you guys are going to delve into it a bit with the Inner Sea Magic, but are there any plans to do a product solely on Thassilon? Whoever dreamed that empire up is a genius...

Ask me again at Gen Con.

As for Thassilon, that's actually an export from my homebrew world. When it came time to publish stuff about it, I called in Wolfgang Baur to expand upon my rough notes for Thassilon—so it's pretty much the two of us who built it up originally.

And I did sacrifice a goat the last time. Do you require another snack?

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James Jacobs wrote:
Kyle Lefever wrote:
Now that we are on the topic of Thassilon, between the hints concerning Zutha's Phylactery and by your response can we expect a product with a decent bit of Thassilonian goodness??? I know you guys are going to delve into it a bit with the Inner Sea Magic, but are there any plans to do a product solely on Thassilon? Whoever dreamed that empire up is a genius...

Ask me again at Gen Con.

As for Thassilon, that's actually an export from my homebrew world. When it came time to publish stuff about it, I called in Wolfgang Baur to expand upon my rough notes for Thassilon—so it's pretty much the two of us who built it up originally.

Awww James thats not fair... I'm in Afghanistan until well after Gen Con!!!

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James Jacobs wrote:
Kyle Lefever wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Kyle Lefever wrote:
Was the Oliphaunt of Jandelay summoned during Emperor Xin's reign or after his death?
After.
Who was the summoner then?
We have not revealed that yet.

BLAST!!!! Foiled again! Somehow you always manage to give just enough to be exciting but never fully tip anything off. You win this round sir. Well played...

Now that we are on the topic of Thassilon, between the hints concerning Zutha's Phylactery and by your response can we expect a product with a decent bit of Thassilonian goodness??? I know you guys are going to delve into it a bit with the Inner Sea Magic, but are there any plans to do a product solely on Thassilon? Whoever dreamed that empire up is a genius...

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ciretose wrote:
LoreKeeper wrote:
I'm kinda in favor of a meta-plot AP; for example, an AP where the heroes main objective is to stop the heroes of a different AP. Or alternatively a form of sand-box a la Kingmaker, but without the time and resources to exhaustively play the entire sandbox - instead only a third or-so would be completable by a given party. A mega-dungeon might be suitable for such an approach.

I've been trying to do this at my table for years but I haven't been able to get people on board because we already have two games running. My most recent attempt came as part of at CoTCT side quest

** spoiler omitted **

But I don't know how it would work in an AP.

I played in a meta plot campign where our GM ran us as Chelish agents trying to assassinate members of the Taldan Nobility, while another group he ran were agents of Taldor trying to stop us... it was interesting, the only reason it stopped was because I got deployed. One of the more memorable games I've played.

+1 to Lastwall AP

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Kyle Lefever wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Kyle Lefever wrote:
Was the Oliphaunt of Jandelay summoned during Emperor Xin's reign or after his death?
After.
Who was the summoner then?

Sorry, after reading the post again, I realized it may have come off kinda snarky... meant it quizzically, rather than attempting to be rude.

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James Jacobs wrote:
Kyle Lefever wrote:
Was the Oliphaunt of Jandelay summoned during Emperor Xin's reign or after his death?
After.

Who was the summoner then?

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Was the Oliphaunt of Jandelay summoned during Emperor Xin's reign or after his death?

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Thanks again everyone for the input!!! Mr. Jacobs, your goat is tethered in the yard as a sacrifice to your wisdom.

For the Lazurite, I was thinking of it empowering necromancy spells, while dealing negative energy damage to the caster, making it extremely lucrative for undead spellcasters. The specifics are still up in the air, but i was toying with using it like empower spell feat, with it dealing 1d6 negative energy damage/level of spell. A 1 lbs chunk hold 50 charges, with 1 charge being used per spell level. Thoughts?

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Greg and Brandon, now that youve dropped by... James mentioned not too long ago that Norgorber would have a large part to play in an upcoming AP, and that he would probably be the last of the core 20 to get a Deity article. Any ideas how he's gonna pull that off in the new pirate AP?

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I'm working on some different uses of it for weapons and armor, possibly adding negative energy synergy for channeling or adding resistance to positive energy. I do like the point above on keeping the levels intact... may have to use that against the pc's at one point... I can see their faces now... They have just dropped the BBEG and are looting the room, when he rises again as a full level ghoul and begins it all again...

Greg and Brandon, thank you for weighing in. Love both of works, and Greg, you still hold the golden standard for Ap adventures, Skeletons is still my favorite!!!

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Just finished perusing a new product from the amazing folks over at Paizo and I came acros mention of Lazurite. Does anyone know of any rules regarding this material? Can it be used for anything specific? The flavor of it would definitely make it an interesting component for necromantic spells, but can it be used in the creation of other items, say a weapon or armor? Can it be used as the base substance or added in to change the properties of said items? I'm interested in using it in an upcoming campaign and am looking for some suggestions or any rules that may be out there. Thanks in advance!!!

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Weighing in on book 2, I loved it. Ive had the good fortune to be on both sides of the screen for it. The first time through as a PC, we had a light party of three (a rogue assassin, a ranged ranger, and a sorcerer). Very few mods were made to the entirety of the adventure. Went smoothly. We had no problems through the entirety of foxglove manor (pcs avoided the revanent), the sawmill (silence and darkness, followed by sneak attacks on nearly everyone), but the old tower was amazing. the whole set up had a good feel and the pacing was appropriate. The Golem gave some problems, but was handled in the end. Big X went down fairly easy for us as players. When I flipped to the other side of the screen with another group she decimated the party, throwing the fighter off the tower was just one of the highlights to that fight... The ultimate difference was how well they worked together and research.

For making it better, definitely a bit more on Ironbriar before the PC's head to the sawmill. Something akin to TwoWolves post above would be a nice addition to the adventure. The clues were rather straighforward. Both Aldern and Ironbriar weren't exactly tough, which I would also fix. Maybe a template or a couple more levels. Beyond that I thought everything else was balanced, including Big X. She definitely came across as reinforcement of the Erylium lesson, but with TPK potential. Most of these changes are fairly simple though.

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Mention of Zutha's Gluttonous Tome brought tears to my eyes... Thank you, James Jacobs, for being awesome.

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Several months ago, I pinged James on when Norgorber would get his deity article and why it hadnt been done yet. His response indicated that Norgorber would play a BIG role in an upcoming AP and would probably be the last of the prime 20 gods to get his article. If the past AP's have been any indication, the gods involved are always explained, and with good ole Norgorber taking last, that tells me his followers will probably be some of the antagonists. I really, really really want to see the Red mantis and the Church of Norgorber square off for overall dominance of the assassination portfolio... If the players were organizing a fleet from Cheliax, Absolam, Taldor or even Rahadoum to deal with the merciless Red Mantis and shake off their oppression once and for all, I think there would be plenty of great opportunities in there. Even if the PC's were just dealing with the piracy issue, it would eventually lead back to Ilizmagorti...

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an evil fleet of the Skinsaw Man's maniacal murderers layin waste to all that dare to stand before them as the move on the island kingdom of the Red Mantis, to eliminate the vile usurper to Norgorbers dominion over assassination!!!

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Im not sure how I feel about a pirate themed AP... I'm interested in seeing where Paizo takes it. I was kinda hoping for something with a bit more subtlety, but if done right this may scratch that itch. The biggest question I have in my mind right now, with this being the tenth AP and rounding out the god articles, Norgorber is due for his. Again im wondering how this will fit with a pirate AP... in the more recent APs the god articles have focused on the most prominent ones for the AP. Does this mean good ole Blackfingers will be behind some of the piracy shenanigans?!?!

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SOLD... Love this series!!!

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Quandary wrote:
Well, as advice to newbie GM, I´d say that was a really bad call because what it´s mostly doing is aiding the OTHER player who didn´t have a problem to begin with. If the archer needed help, he can be more generous with ´situational bonuses´ if she find ´interesting´ places to shoot from, etc. That would direclty help her.

I could definitely agree with that. Nice point, Q.

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Liane Merciel wrote:
Dale Wessel wrote:
And to reclarify my original post, I'm looking for advice that will allow me to challenge him better since a lot of canned encounters are too easy for him to handle.

Ooooh, got it. Thanks for including the Skinsaw Murders example; that helps a lot (and alerts me that I may need to adjust that series of encounters for my own group when they get there; they haven't had a particularly easy time through Burnt Offerings yet, but I wouldn't want the Skinsaw cultists to be a letdown later).

Basic advice, some of which is repeated from earlier in the thread:

-- more little enemies are harder to defeat than one or two big enemies (BUT make sure your little enemies can actually hurt the PCs; I tend to go with special effects like explode-on-death AoE bomb skeletons* rather than AC-dependent attacks, since a lot of little goomba monsters can't hit PCs worth a crap);

(* -- side bonus: this forces the PCs to strategize about how they're going to take out the monsters without killing themselves by setting off a chain reaction of exploding death. This encounter setup is easy to abuse and easy to overuse, but used sparingly and well, it makes me laugh and laugh.)

-- use enemies whose immunities/resistances complement other enemies' spells and SLAs;

-- divide and conquer: knock out some of your PCs with paralyzation effects, daze/sleep spells, isolation traps/spells (something as simple as a sliding wall or portcullis that cuts your party in half, or a wall of fire that they get to choose between leaping through [and taking damage] or staying isolated from the rest of the group), etc.;

-- hamper them: dazzle, sicken, poison, slow. Anything that cuts down the number of moves they get per round, or makes those moves less effective, is a killer;

-- use charm/domination to turn one PC against the others (not just in fights, but also beforehand when NPCs are gathering intel on what they'll be facing, and recruit one PC as a charmed spy to spill the beans on the rest -- this lets...

Awesome advice, I really like the exploding munchkins. Gonna have to use that on in the next game I run...

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Quandary wrote:

Yeah, I give a +1 to Koloko on this specific one.

Maybe the rules aren´t explicit, but in cases like this it´s best to err on side of game balance (which is hard for a newbie to fully comprehend). The rules obviously don´t say ´bows don´t threaten as ranged, but of course can do so as Improvised Weapns´... Obviously every archer would love to not be subject to a limitation of their weapon, but treating that as ´standard´ rules (yet mysteriously not mentioned) just pulls the rug out from the game´s base-line balance.

The thing is, there´s plenty of other ways to threaten even without Improvised Melee Bows, Improved Unarmed is one, Armor Spikes another... But if you want to keep a handle on your game, it´s pretty reasonable to just talk with your players and say ´hey, let´s not go there, and play within the normal bounds of the game OK?´ In a game where everybody including the GM is on their s%!*, this might not be such a problem, I´ve even seen Feats/Special Bows which allow threatening and even normal melee attacks (w/o Improvised penalties). You just have to ask youself, is that your game or not?

Not allowing the archer to flank in this case wouldn´t mean that they are completely over-shadowed by the rogue´s combat dominance, in fact completey the opposite, because if they couldn´t flank the rogue couldn´t get Sneak Attack... Possibly meaning both characters would face a situation some-what out of their optimization-point... which every character should face on regular basis, if not the whole party at one. Then again, if the archer knew they couldn´t flank, I doubt the archer would be in or stay in melee-distance, meaning they would more or less be doing their thing (and thus likely ´shining´ vs. the non-Flanking Rogue).

Honestly, it seems very wierd that a Rogue is so consistently vaporizing opponents in a 2-PC party with an archer, who shouldn´t normally be Flanking. If your game was within normal play parameters vis-a-vis Flanking, and sequential enemies could be warned by their allies´...

How do I get the "rules expert optimizing player" added next to my name as a title? Seriously though, We tried not to get into situations where we didnt have the upper hand. There was a lot of sneaking and scouting going on, a quick retreat and tactics session then we'd roll in and let the chips fall. As for the Ranger, she was plagued with horrid rolls, which made for some interesting roleplaying situations, but she always felt behind the curve. so when Dale allowed us to let her act as a flanker it made it a bit better and offset her horrible luck. We kinda ran with it from there. He made the call early enough to allow us to shape our tactics to them.

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One of the interesting things Dale does is that when he makes a call its out there for him to use. Ive been outflanked by his monsters and its not a fun thing to be on the receiving end. With Oeneus' abilities he often tries to take out range first. Dale began using a 15 foot block for his monsters, putting the brutes up front, throwing a 5 foot block between them, and having the ranged guys right behind. My character rolls into the middle and gets mirked hard. We accept the rule and he is not afraid of using our tactics against us.

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Honestly I'm wondering when James will duck in. It seems he has a radar for my posts and isn't usually far from them...

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Kolokotroni wrote:
Kyle Lefever wrote:
But we just established in the rules, a bow does threaten as it can be used as a melee weapon. Or her fist, which is always an option just because she wasn't using it doesn't mean she wasn't threatening him with it.

Actually no, a fist does not threaten unless you have improved unarmed strike (or a similar ability). You are considered unarmed.

As for bows it is arguable.
"Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat."

A bow was certainly crafted to be a weapon, just not a melee weapon. Thus it doesnt fall under improvised weapon, neither do arrows. Improvised weapons are for chairs, poles, boards, things that are not already weapons.

arguable indicating that there is merit in both sides of the argument. Again the point of the exercise was Dale making a call as a GM, he asked about how flanking worked, we went over it, he made a decision on the rule and stuck to it. If he would have said it wasn't allowed then I would have dropped it altogether and moved on. I think he did a great job, but obviously you believe that I am biased by my position as a player. I want Dale to enjoy the game. Thats why we discussed the section on flanking, helping to improve his understanding. We are two very different people with different outlooks. He makes wonderful stories and I enjoy playing in his world. He enjoys the game as well, he's looking more for advice to make encounters more challenging, not hamstring players by using odd verbiage from the rulebook to rule against them. He keeps an open mind when reading the rules so he can look at them objectively. Now you will probably pounce on the odd verbiage. Before we jump down that rabbit hole, the message boards are full of questions concerning ambiguous wording on rules. You're interpretation may vary. Beauty of the game.

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Kolokotroni wrote:
Kyle Lefever wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Kyle Lefever wrote:


As she was standing in front of cultist A while shooting him with arrows, logically he is threatened. With Oeneus standing directly behind the same cultist, he receives a flanking bonus, however as she is using a ranged weapon per the rules you mentioned above, Lalianna would not get the bonus.
No, he isnt. 'Threatened' is a condition that is defined in game terms. It CANNOT be achieved with a ranged weapon no matter how many holes you shoot in the cultist. You can only threaten with a melee weapon.
I think the big take away from this was that the situation was discussed and we did take the time to look up the rules. Dale agreed with my assessment and he allowed it. And as always logic trumps things that sometimes just dont make sense. I know it may be an interpretation of the rule but it works for us.
I agree with this behavior and have no problem with your house rule but it is that, and obviously, it didn't work because you ran rampant over the planned encounters. There is no question that allowing the bow to threaten made your character more effective (allowing him to flank for sneak attack). So your 'logical' interpretation of the rules in part lead to the degredation of the campaign the OP mentions. Certainly I wouldn't condemn any DM this ruling, but the fact that the DM in question is inexperienced and having difficulty with maintaining balance, means to me that 'logic' should not be at the forefront. Keeping a managable game should be.

But we just established in the rules, a bow does threaten as it can be used as a melee weapon. Or her fist, which is always an option just because she wasn't using it doesn't mean she wasn't threatening him with it.

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Dale Wessel wrote:
Quandary wrote:

I would also suggest not allowing anything but Core Rules material by default. You can make exceptions*, but it just keeps it simpler to focus on the Core Rules, which are the basis of understanding the mechanics well since APG, etc, tends to just modifiy those rules.

* AP/Region-specific Player´s Guide, if a character concept just CAN¨T WORK without it, etc, but you don´t need 2Handed or Archer variant Fighters to have a competent character using those styles.

+1

You sir, are a scholar and a gentlemen. That actually is not a bad idea. It could really help with establishing a cut and dry system that will help me from overlooking rule exceptions from say the APG and get blindsided by them.

My feelings hurt. Now we're both in the wrong. I dont blindside... I sometimes attack from the front... but with rules it always straightforward.

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Kolokotroni wrote:
Kyle Lefever wrote:


As she was standing in front of cultist A while shooting him with arrows, logically he is threatened. With Oeneus standing directly behind the same cultist, he receives a flanking bonus, however as she is using a ranged weapon per the rules you mentioned above, Lalianna would not get the bonus.
No, he isnt. 'Threatened' is a condition that is defined in game terms. It CANNOT be achieved with a ranged weapon no matter how many holes you shoot in the cultist. You can only threaten with a melee weapon.

I think the big take away from this was that the situation was discussed and we did take the time to look up the rules. Dale agreed with my assessment and he allowed it. And as always logic trumps things that sometimes just dont make sense. I know it may be an interpretation of the rule but it works for us.

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Kolokotroni wrote:
Kyle Lefever wrote:
Christopher Van Horn wrote:

Just as a side note, ranged weapons no longer provide flanking, only melee weapons do. Its a minor tweak to the system and I can't remember the exact thread but it was discussed quite a lot as it pertained to whips. You would have SA from the flatfooted status but a ranger could not provide flanking to you using a bow at range.

PRD wrote:

Flanking

When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.

she was using a point blank ranger set up, so she would come in as well just not as stylishly. Like I said we built to play off of each other.

Point blank shot doesnt make a weapon threaten. The ranger would have to be weilding a melee weapon in order for you to get flanking.

Also, to be honest I am not familiar with the adventure path, what was foxglove and that level/how many cultists where there?

As she was standing in front of cultist A while shooting him with arrows, logically he is threatened. With Oeneus standing directly behind the same cultist, he receives a flanking bonus, however as she is using a ranged weapon per the rules you mentioned above, Lalianna would not get the bonus.

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Christopher Van Horn wrote:

Just as a side note, ranged weapons no longer provide flanking, only melee weapons do. Its a minor tweak to the system and I can't remember the exact thread but it was discussed quite a lot as it pertained to whips. You would have SA from the flatfooted status but a ranger could not provide flanking to you using a bow at range.

PRD wrote:

Flanking

When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.

she was using a point blank ranger set up, so she would come in as well just not as stylishly. Like I said we built to play off of each other.

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@Kolokotrani- Currently Dale is off. The last time he GMed, I played a dex based (started with a 20 dex) rogue assassin dual wielding patas. at the time we finished, Oeneus was a human rogue 3/assassin 7. We were playing Rise of the Runelords. In Skinsaw Murders, he dropped Foxglove in three rounds with solid rolls and an excellent setup round. Later when Oeneus and Lalianna (straight leg ranger 9(ranged-longbow), went into the lumber mill, Oeneus was able to move through every room in the building and eliminate every cultist before they got a second action, with a little help from Lalianna. Basically. Oeneus would run into a room and tumble into a flanking position. Initiative would go and Oeneus having a +10 at this point (dex 22 with improved intiative) would gain flanking bonuses with sneak attack while the cultists were flat footed and wipe the floors with them. The elven judge at the top went down just as quickly (4 pata attacks with sneak attack while flanking). To top it off both of them snuck past the golem, and Oeneus was able to stay hidden from the Lamia at the top of the clocktower and set up his death attack, for which she promptly failed her save. Lalianna drew her attention to the other side of the room while Oeneus remained hidden. We played off each other nicely and made really messy short work of almost every encounter. That was shortly before our schedules changed and we started a new campaign (one of the players had a personal issue that required a move).

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Hey guys Im gonna weigh in quick. Im the guy hes talking about above. Dale and I have been playing on and off for about 6 months now. He has made some great strides as a GM and he takes all the advice the group can give him. I've been playin 3e+ and pathfinder since it dropped way back when and have gotten pretty comfortable with the rule set. One of the other issues is the group size we have. our group, due to geographic separation usually sits with a duo of players plus GM. we try to rotate GMing duties so everyone gets to try out their ideas and run with whatever pops out. This spawns a secondary issue that usually, due to the rotation, Dale doesnt get the full opportunity to explore some of the more complex aspects of the rules you run into later in the game. Currently Dale and I are players in our third's campaign. Both the GM and I are on about the same level for rules comprehension and application which intimidates Dale a bit. We're trying to scale back a bit and we've been making a concerted push to get Dale into the limelight, but I guess we'll have to try a bit harder. Some great ideas in here guys. I will take the advice and try my best to apply it. Dale, I hear ya buddy.

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James, remember you promised some serious Norgorber love in here soon... can't wait for both Jade Regent and what comes next. Would love to see an AP in Nidal though. the creepy feel and the blatant Zon-Kuthon worship would make for an intensely atmospheric game.

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Holt, I've been playing pathfinder since they broke away from WoTC, and Ive had a lot of the same feelings from time to time. But honestly a lot of good stuff comes out of the boards. Ive had a ton of my questions answered by skimming them. a lot of the people on here play PFS and the rules as written are the determining factor in a lot of cases. you'll see a lot of the mechanics questions come out of those groups. You of course have people playing different styles, but I've seen a lot of quality posts on here. Even Cartigan is good for some insight if you can ever get him to stop trolling. All in all this is one of the friendliest boards around and the developers are intimately involved with what goes on here. So have fun, take what you need, leave the rest and make great stories for you and your friends to share. Cheers and welcome to the family!!!

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I for one Norgorb, early and often. I find my day just isn't complete if I don't. For anyone who hasn't, try it. It's a lot like cocaine...

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Thanks James!!!!. I was hoping you would chime in. Its really awesome you guys keep in touch through these boards. By answering my question, you've guaranteed a loyal subscriber for many years to come. Keep up the awesome work and I cant wait to see the Norgorber article!!!

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Having followed the AP line from the beginning, I have to ask, why hasn't Norgorber gotten his own profile article? Following through the APs, each one has certain deities that make sense and get their articles. But the one glaring opportunity for Norgorber was in AP #2, The Skinsaw Murders. But instead of Norgorber getting his, Desna got the article. I understand it was the first deity article and the deity/Ap relationship wasnt developed yet, but still it was a logical fit.

Secondly, I havent seen a terrible lot of extra info thrown out about him in a variety of the other products pushed. It almost seems like he's fading into the background (and yes, that is his thing), but its gettin to the point where it seems that he may disappear altogether. With the red mantis taking on a bigger role, it seems that he is being sidelined by Achaekek. Someone please tell me this isn't so as Norgorber is one of the most interesting of the Ascended and i definitely would love to see some more on him.

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Just a thought... have you considered having the character convert to the worship of ZK as Dou-Bral? Even if he was completely altered by his departure from reality, he would still retain some essence of his former self, being a god and all. Could make for an interesting set of circumstances, especially if you like the Shelyn approach.

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