Seth Gipson wrote:
I would like to play Choden level 10 (monk/paladin/champion of Irori). However, I didnt want to comment to a character before I found out what everyone else is playing. I have at least 4 very different party roles characters in the tier range.
10 offensive monk, 10 elemental sorceror, 7/8 TWF Rogue, 8 druid Ape animal companion. And a few more in the 5-6 range.
I will be running a few 7-11s these next couple months, so if others know what they want to play I can make sure my character is of the appropriate level.
I have a few questions:
1. Is Rokka (axebeak) supposed to have evasion?
2. Is the Harpy Raider song DC supposed to be 2 higher? It seems to not add in the ability focus.
3. How is powerful charge calculated? In between the minotaurs (2d6+6), the minotaur cultists (4d8+24), and Dahruun (L 4d6+10/H 4d6+12). The numbers dont seem to add up.
Seasons 1, 2, and 3 had the majority of the stat blocks. They did away with non-unique stat blocks in the scenario because they took up too much word count. Allowing the focus to be on the story and not stats that are already printed in other books. Often times, there were a lot of details that were left out because because the word count was too high.
Season 4 is when the stat blocks were done away with. I don't think it Is just a coincidence that when the stat blocks were done away with that the scenario quality got better.
Never mind. I looked at the ranger AC ability and not the Druid. It does not list that in the ranger ability.
The animal companion levels do work like you think.
The ranger levels will not stack like you think they do. You have the 4 levels of Druid, the ranger levels do not stake since it doesn't add to your current AC level, it gives you another AC. So right now, your AC will only be level 8.
So if you want to try to keep the AC level up with your level, don't multiclass.
You both make very good points.
So far at my tables I have the APL come out in the middle a couple times and my tables have been happy with which tier they ended up playing. I GM quite often, so after this happens once or twice and it ends poorly, I'm sure my thoughts will change.
Honestly, players should be able to play whatever characters they want to play and the new system does keep that from happening. As much as I like the idea of the structuredness, it does have its flaws.
Cold Napalm wrote:
And you do realize that people complaining kept the system changing...RIGHT? So what is wrong with us complaining NOW to get a system we don't particularly like change yet again? Or is the system perfect in your mind and all of us who dislike should just shut up and leave PFS?
Honestly, yes, I do feel this is the most balanced the system has been.
When authors are creating scenarios, the system needs to be balanced, because otherwise some scenarios will be really easy (Goblinblood Dead)and some will be really hard (Dalsine Affair). So there needs to be balance so scenarios can be created and balanced the best they can be.
Cold Napalm wrote:
Or is the system perfect in your mind and all of us who dislike should just shut up and leave PFS? Because that is what it sounds like you just said with that last statement.
Im just responding to your comment about "screw systems. You trust PCs." Unfortunately, PFS is about the system. Im just stating, that for those, like yourself, who hate the system no one is saying this is the only way to play Pathfinder. However, it is the only way to play Society.
Yes, I like the system as it is. Will I mess with the system to play in the subtier that I want to, yes, you better believe I will.
What changes would you recommend be made to the system? I think the biggest issue is trying to keep the scenario balanced between 5 levels and I have no suggestions on how to do that.
This is the system that Campaign Leadership decided on.
Yes, there used to be flexability when it came to APL, but now there is not. So, players have to become adjusted to this new system of non-flexability. If that means players have to be more accomidating, then so be it. When there was flexability people complained about it being to easy when the played with 6 or 7 people during seasons 0-3, even though it was geared for 4 players. Then 4 and 6 player scaling was established in season 4. People trusted their PCs too much and with the increased CR from scaling they still chose to play up, and it ended in PC deaths. So people complained about it being too hard, even though they might not have had a single PC who was in tier. So now, leadership has taken the choice away from the players, hoping this would decrease player deaths. Has it? It is probably to soon to tell. However, people are still complaining.
If people do not like the system that PFS has established, for whatever reason, no one is forcing them to play. If PFS, is too structured there are APs or even home brews those players can play in.
Cold Napalm wrote:
Its a cooperative game.
For example: here in a couple of weeks I am going to be playing Sanos Abduction (3-7) with a 6th levl character. However, when I get to that table and its a bunch out of tier characters and I am skewing the APL to make them play up, Ill ask them if they have a in tier character to play. If they say no, looks like I will play a lower level charcter to keep the APL down so there wont be a bunch of PCs out of tier. More then likely, causing a bunch of PC deaths.
Will I be disappointed that I didnt get to play the character I wanted, sure, but it more then likely kept PCs from dying. Yes, i could be greedy or inflexable and play the character that I want to play, but is that fair to the noobs who are barely level 3 to make them play up, resulting in their death. No, its not.
However, if I am set on playing a certain character, regardless of whether I had other and better options, then I shouldn't blame the system if my stubbornness resulted in PC death.
Cold Napalm wrote:
There was no bullying.
I was just stating ways that could have prevented PC deaths; such switching out characters. Yes, I did mention that it was silly, if a player who has a 7th character doesnt also have a 3, 4, or 5 level character, because it is. Players shouldnt just rely on the one character. If that was the only character they brought that day because it was a faction scenario, then so be it. However, they all did agree to playing in the 6-7 tier whether they wanted to or not. Were there options that could have allowed them to play in the lower sub tier or even have characters in the appropriate sub-tier, Yes, they choose to play the characters they did and it ended badly.
Don't blame the system because players were greedy.
eric kim wrote:
Yes, with the new rules there is no more float tier were the players choose to play up or down. Whether you play up or down, depends on the amount of players at the table. If there are 3 players (and a pregen) or 4 players you play down and if there is 4 and 6 person scaling use the 6 person scaling. If there are 5, 6, or 7 players you play up and if there is 4 and 6 person scaling use the 4 person.
Campaign leadership had to establish some kind ruling because with the addition of the 6 person scaling in season 4 alot of players still opted on playing up even knowing there are increased CRs. So it ended in alot of deaths and people complaing about how much harder the scenarios were. Even though players knew they are harder and still decided to play up. Overall, this system should prove to be better then letting the players decide.
In situation like u mentioned, did the 7th level have a lower level character that could be played so the APL is not so skewed, did the 4s or the 5 have higher level characters or were those the characters that they wanted to play? Was the party balanced? I know there have been times were i have set down at a table intending to play one character, then after seeing the party make up switch to a different character to have a more balanced party or something that is in tier. If the players are stubborn and dont want to switch characters then it is up to the GM and how dice roll to decided the PCs fate. If the 7th level character didnt have a lower level character (and their silly if they dont have), they could have easily played a pregen. No, it might not have been the favorite choice, but it could have meant that more PCs were alive in the end.
Spell turning states that it fails to turn range touch spells. So melee touch attack spells (shocking grasp) should be turned. I just wasn't sure how the weapon damage worked with it and if there was a crit how damage is dealt.
So is casting a spell, such as entangle on the Rune of Alacrity considered manipulating the rune, therefore causing the caster to be cursed?
Thanis Kartaleon wrote:
That is for PC credit, not GM credit.
I just GM'ed a Tier 1-5 scenario at the 4-5 subtier. Can I apply the credit to a level 2 character? If so, I take the 1-2 subtier gold without any out-of-tier adjustment, correct?
You apply credit to the character by what level your character is, not by what tier the players play. Had your character been 3rd level it would have received out-of-tier gold.
Mystic Lemur wrote:
Yes, it helps.
When I started RPing there was a playered who spam summoned, so summoning has rubbed me the wrong way from the very beginning. However, I am going to be running a scenario that has a conjurer BBEG in it and the spam summoner is going to be playing. So, I'm just making sure I have all my summoning bases covered.
The Waking Rune
I am going to be running this a couple times at a con this up coming weekend and I have some questions.
1. What scenarios are the "Replica Dragon-Tooth Spear", "Rod of Runes", and "Lissala's Caress" from and what do they do? Can one person use the spear or rod if multiple people have it on character sheets?
2. Does Kurshu's feed ability provoke AoOs?
3. Do PCs become cursed from the runes by only physically touching them or does a PC casting a spell become cursed since they are trying to disable it?
4. If a PC is sent to another plane, what all needs to be done for the PC to return. I know they have to pay 5 PP for body recovery, but is the PC dead? Will the PC be able to return to the scenario or are they SOL?
5. The Rune of Control says it protects him from any creature he conjures. It acts as if he has protection from evil/good/neutral/chaos/law. What is the purpose of this?
6. Since there is not actually a spellbook listed, what options does Krune have when he uses his bonded object to cast? Can he cast any spell that is not of his opposed schools or is he limited to the spells listed in his stat block?
7. How does spell turning work with a magus who delivers a spell through a weapon? (If the attack hits, Krune takes weapon dmg and the magus takes spell damage.)
8. Does Globe of Invulnerability move with the caster?
9. Dimension Door states that you cannot take any actions until your next turn. Does that include AoOs, immediate actions, and will the contigency go off, if needed?
10. With the Runelord's Touch ability, if a feat is lost from turning the ioun stone and it is a prerequisite feat (i.e weapon finesse), is other feats (i.e. dervish dance) no longer usable?
Boon Companion:(feat, Animal Archive)The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were 4 levels
Ascendant Recollection: (Magic Trait, Ultimate Campaign)Your first bloodline power is particularly strong. Your sorcerer level is considered to be 1 level higher when determining the effects of your 1st-level bloodline power.
I plan on making a sylvan sorceror. I want to know if the feat and the trait work together. The feat making the animal companion level equal to the character HD and then the trait making it the animal companion one level higher by increasing the bloodline ability.
Has there been any official rulings on the Animal Archives' Animal Companion archetypes for Cavalier mounts?
Patrick Renie wrote:
This is from the developer.
Bare with me, I'm not as familiar with summoning and how it functions as I should be.
When using Summon Monster Spells, creatures are celestial animals if your character is good aligned and you summon fiendish animals if you are evil. If you are neutral you get to pick whether you want the animal to be celestial or fiendish.
1. Do creatures always have to have a planar template?
2. Can you summon resolute creatures if you are lawful/neutral or entropic if you are chaotic/neutral?
3. Do summoned creature's alignment change to match templates? (i.e. You are a LG wizard, you summon a celestial cheetah. Does the cheetah's N alignment change to NG to match the celestial template?
4. Are you restricted by your alignment as to whether you can summon devils/demons/azatas/archons? Meaning the summons can only be one step away from your alignment. (i.e. You are a NG wizard, can you summon demons and devils or are you restricted to azatas and archons?)
In season 0 there are some stat blocks, but you often need to refer to the monster manuel, since it was still 3.5 when they were published.
In season 1, 2, and 3, most of the stat blocks are in the scenario.
In season 4 and 5 most of the stat blocks you will have to look up in the bestiaries.
This just getting stupid.
The rules state: to use a resource to HAVE to own a legal copy of the book you are trying to use. Whether it be you have a cool spell, class ability, or pet, you still have to own a copy of the resource.
This has been stated over and over again. If you want to be cheap and not own a copy of the resource you are trying to use, that's fine. But expect some GMs to turn you down.
Cold Naplam I see you have a star by your name, so you have at least GMd 10 times. It is your right as a GM to turn down non legal sources. Whether you choose to enforce this at your table that is your decision.
No, i will not allow this. Since they do not have the resource they are trying to use. New players are only exception to this rule. They do not know what is or is not expected.
No, it is players responsibility to provide the stat block, not the GMs. If this is just marketing tactic for Paizo, then so be it. We are playing their game, so it is their rules. Their rules clearly state that end order how a player to use abilities, spells, etc. that are not fully contained in the CRB or the Guide to Organized Play then they have to own a copy of the book it is taken from.
Cold Napalm wrote:
It has been stated over and over now. The PRD is not a legal source for players. If you bring print outs of PRD stat blocks and do not have a copy of the bestiary. The GM can and should let your spell fizzle. It is the players job to bring the book that they are trying to use content from.
Yes, GMs are treated differently. They do not need to own copies of all of the 10 hardcovers to run the game for you. That is over a hundred dollars in PDF alone or $500 in physical books. If GMs do not have a book then they can use the PRD as the source, not players. If GMs were expected to own all of these books before they can volunteer their time to run a game, then there would not be very many GMs.
Chris Mortika is one of the best GMs I know. He has already stated he ran 300+ tables and he does not own all of the books. So the pRD is a resource he can use, for GM purposes only, to make sure his tables are ran they way they are supposed to.
It just as simple as this: Anything outside of the CRB you have to own a copy of the resource to be able to use stuff in it. The critters you summoning do not have stat blocks in the CRB so in order to use the spell, you also have to have the bestiary. Having access to the PRD means dittly squat for a player. You still have to have the resource.
The GM has every right to ask for the source book and if you do not present a legal copy then you don't get to use the spell. That is the players responsibility to have the proper source, not the GMs.
Marthkus, to answer the orignial question. You have a legal copy of the resourse you are using (Bestiary). Some GMs will allow you to use the stat blocks you have (like BigNorseWolf said with the index cards and the PRD) other GMs (myslef) will only except the paid for resource.
So it really just depends on how the GM rules.
Summoned creatures are not NPCs or PCS. They are summoned creatures.
Players who summon creatures should have the resource readily available for use. Sure, GMs will allow PRD, SRD, or somebody else's books, but I and many other GMs will not. If you want to use summon creature abilities then YOU have to have the resource, whether it be a physical copy or the PDF.
The GM should not being running the summoned creatures, because there is already enough going on for them to worry about. Some summoned creatures the GM might not know how they should properly be ran. So the player who is summoning should have control over what the summoned creatures do.
I totaled up 8 deaths at Gencon (6 PCs and 2 pets)
Bonekeep 1 (4 PCs and 1 Pet):
# 1 Valeros stepped in to soak up the attacks of the skellies while the others healed the other fighter. Unfortunately, he could not withstand 2 attacks each from 3 skeletons and be within 10ft of the statue.
#2 The melee ranger died at the hands of the shifthing elementals. The rest of the party was able to drag his corpse out of the room and retreat.
#3 While the cleric was standaing in the doorway of the elemental room he was slammed by a water elemental into the lightening. (This was my personal favorite kill of Gencon)
#4 Ninja pregen failed to saves to the oozes' phantasmal killer.
#5 The Cleric's ape companion had INT dmg from the oozes' ability that left him unconsious at 0. At this point the party decided they had enough and left the monkey there to be consumed by the oozes.
Out of the 6 players, 3 were brand new to Pathfinder
Siege of Diamond City (1 PC):
The same 3 gentlemen who had actual characters in Bonekeep 1 also sat at my table of the Special.
The only death of the scenario was the previously mentioned cleric, when he got flanked by a babau. A crit and 2 hits with sneak attack killed him before the other cleric could get to him and cast a breath of life scroll
Rivarly's End (1 PC):
The table consisted of 6 players with and average party level of 5. So they had to play up with the 4 person scaling.
Luckily the rogue was able to find and disable to web swarm trap before heading down stairs. (Had it not been disabled, it would have more than likely been a TPK)
When they opened Dorianna's door the weapon master fighter got dominated. He then took a 5 ft step and dropped the rogue full to dead. (only had 10 con). The summoner then cast Protection from Evil and on the reroll made the save.
Bonekeep 2 (1 pet):
The 6th ranger's small cat could not withstand the beating it received from the ogres. The cast was the only thing adjacent to one of the ogres for 2 rnds.
Keep in mind that you need to have a copy of Faction Guide to be able to use the Defender of Society trait. You can purchase the PDF and bring a printed out copy or have it on a smart phone or tablet when you play the character. Of course, a physical copy it just as fine.
Indomitable will or some other trait that increases your will save can be a good choice.
Like others have said, Cleave is overrated. Weapon Focus, Toughness, or Iron Will might be better options. Every time I have seen Cleave used, the first attack misses so the second attack doesn't go off.
I was told by campaign leadership, "this would be a good learning experience", and it was.
I had the 3 gentlemen (who had characters), again, at my table of Seige of Diamond City. They learned from Bonekeep 1 and brought 4 of the knowledgable friends along. So the had a well rounded party for the special. It ended much better. All the players seemed happy at the end and said they really enjoyed the scenario.
It would not have made a difference if there was something posted online in signups that this is a deadly scenario or that players who signed-up received a long email that in the middle of it was a small disclaimer.
In this situation, these players were walk-ins, who had never played before and wanted to give it a try. They didn't even know how much it cost before handing in generic tickets. As soon as they set down and dug out pregens, I read the disclaimer. Thinking and hoping that they would decide that this is not the scenario for them and then ask for a table that was geared for new players. (This happened before the sign-in sheet was even passed around)
In the end, it did not end well. This is solely because they were brand sticking new players. The pregens are fine. If played tactically, they could have helped the other players, but this was not the case. So it ended poorly.
Bonekeep 1 is not a scenario for new players and I, as the GM, should have stressed that more to them.
I (the GM) knew this was going to be a problem as soon as they set down at the table and pulled out one of each of the pregens. That's why I went up an addressed the situation to Mike Brock. It wasnt so much the fact that they were pregens. It was the fact that they were new players using the pregens. They hadnt used the system before. There was a gunlsinger 7 that only shot once a round and a ninja 7 that didnt get a sneak attack off once.
Jason S wrote:
Unfortunately, because of the type of scenario it was, we will probably never see the gentleman who played Valeros again. I mentioned this to campaign leadership after the con.
The very first thing the GM says, is "This is a really hard scenario that you will more then likely die from. If this is not the scenario for you, this is the time to leave".
The players did not register, they showed up with generics. I actually had to swap some of my generics with cash, because they didnt know how much the events cost and hadn't purchased enough generics for the 3 players.
The Price of Friendship (5-9) is the BEST scenario of half-orcs.
Blakros Series: Mists of Mwangi (1-5), Voice in the Void (1-7), Penumbral Accords (1-5), Echoes of the Overwatched (1-5)
Before the Dawn: Part 1 & 2 (1-7)
Quest for Perfection: Part 1 (1-5)
Night March of Kalkamedes (1-5)