Krigare's page

How does gestalting multiple Veilweaver classes work? I assume you can still only have one veil in a given slot (barring the feat that lets you have two)?

Pretty much. Gives me more shaped veils, more essence to play with, and a wider variety of veils, but I'm still limited in how many veils can go in a chakra. Twin Veil is going to be handy.

At least I have a place to put all the essence, being able to shape veils on other people will come in handy.

Yeah, Princess is a pure veil user, all three classes use veils, although Rajah adds a small selection of maneuvers in as well. Be interesting to see if she works the way I intend for her to work lol.

Ohhh, someone else who can use veils. Nifty.

I just thought of something; do we have a healer in the group? I can heal myself, but nobody else. If we don't, it wouldn't be terribly out of theme for me to take on the duty.

Yeah, my character can. Quite a bit actually. Between veils and the Radiant Dawn discipline she can heal a decent amount. Even be able to patch up the 200+ hp characters in a few rounds.

That’s a good point. Might need to shift it closer to LN...

I dunno, what you originally mentioned sounded pretty in line with LE or NE. I could totally see it as a NE character honestly.

Voice of Awesomeness wrote:

13) Counter question: Why would you need to retrain prior to game start?

I had actually planned to do so as well. it helps folks that don't have full BAB by letting them put weapon finesse as a first level feat, and im sure it works for a lot of other stuff and builds by putting higher level stuff in lower level slots within the allowance for the retraining function.

Pretty much this, retraining allows for feats earned early on to be swapped for feats at later levels.

About the paladin thing, I think that a normal paladin might be a stretch in a group of evil people, but don't they have an archetype or two that lets them be something other than good?

Otherwise...eh, if enough of us are lawful it could be doable. Be running the risk of losing their powers though.

And another question lol.

If we pay the fee for it, can we use the retraining rules prior to the game starting?

So it looks like I might end up with Leadership from a class ability (lack of interest in some of the other options). Is a cohort made using the normal rules, one class etc, or are they something more than that?

And are the downtime rules from Ultimate Campaign going to be used? If so can we invest a bit of our starting money?

Ohhhh, fun fun. Can't wait for that. Since I'm remaking him I need to think of a new name, I don't think the old one works very well for how he is ending up.

Are you going to do another big answers post for some of the questions again?

Hey Voice, so can a custom race based on being a symbiotic being do the dual Parity thing like a semoxa veryx?

*Edit: Also, can we use the Unquiet Grave martial discipline from Lords of the Night? It isn't on the wiki but I don't know if you have access to it or not.

Could you post the relevant info for me? While I backed the Kickstarter, and have my PDF, I haven't actually read it too, too much, as I prefer to do my reading via hardcover. Which I am eagerly awaiting!

As acceptance slowly began to become the norm, more and more semxi veryx offered “the Deep Bond” to humanoid spellcasters. To the disturbance of more conservative residence of the City, a surprising number of individuals entered into the veryx symbiotic state of “semoxa” or “spell-guardian.” This relationship caused the formation of the modern legal system in Hyraeatan as that the codifications required consideration for joined plural beings and how they caused re-evaluation of many standing rules to come into question.

Most notably was in reference to the Wardens and the Law of Parity. The semoxa state was noted to be able at times magically “count” as two representations within a Circle for purposes of transporting an Anchor seraph statuette. Parity membership with regard to semoxa bonded veryx is complicated but this advantage was no small thing to overlook. It was determined that each partner in the bond was allowed a Parity membership despite effectively sharing a single joined physical state.

Because of their symbiotic state, semoxa can be in two parities, one for each half. Could a custom race based off being a symbiotic relationship do the same thing?

Okay, I gotta ask. Is the ability to join two Parities limited to semoxa veryx or could a custom race with a hybrid nature be allowed to do the same?

Ellioti wrote:

I kinda like the undead paladin. But the CHA-to-everything strategy might land you in the too-strong-as-compared-to-the-rest-of-the-group-corner of the mission base.

Are we all working to fit within the limits of Bench-Pressing? If so, I'll review the race to make the character fit within these parameters...

It's earlier in the thread but Voice said within a level or two of the benchmark.

Krigare wrote:

simply because no one else seems to have arcane casting.

My monkey King has Magus AND wizard. I hope that's enough arcane casting;)

I kinda skipped over it since it has a hybrid prestige class, and I was pretty sure gestalts aren't supposed to have those. Same reason I can't play a trinity knight or angel.

I have actually been reconsidering my character for something Int-based using wizard levels...

Monkeygod, would you allow the Kung Fu Genius feat? It is from v3.5.

That would be awesome if you do that. I really like the idea of taking all three classes being veilweaving classes.

Plus Rajah does some really good party support.

Well, here he is. I can't say I'm entirely happy with him, I still want to replace Theurge with Rajah. Hopefully someone decided to play a wizard/witch/something so I can ditch Theurge.

I hope that artifact will work. Considering Thygrox is a veilweaver first and a spell caster second, I want an artifact that highlights that.

wizard casting is the most important and versatile set of skills in the game

Yeah, I know. That is what prompted my question. I know some folks were talking about Sphere casters but that still isn't a wizard (or in my case arcane and divine casting both). I guess I can always take advantage of Voice's generous offer to let us redo our character later if someone else takes wizard spell casting.

So I'm curious, anyone think we will need wizard spell casting? Right now the character I am working on is a Nexus/Vizier/Theurge and the crunch is mostly done, but tbh, mainly taking Theurge simply because no one else seems to have arcane casting. I'd really like to take a third veilweaving class (the Rajah) and spread the veil love around to the party that way.

Any thoughts?

Oh, and for the stat block, do you want it with or without essence invested in veils?

Voice, do casters who use a spellbook start with any extra spells or just the base ones from leveling up?

@voice are we doing fame and reputation? Do we start with level+CHA?

I'd like to know this as well

Krigare wrote:

@Kigvan - How are you getting a +19 to init? Especially with a 12 dex.

Noble Scion (War) changes Init from a Dex check to a Charisma check,

+8Cha, +4 Improved Initative, +4 Insight (Powerless Prophecy Curse level 5 benefit), +3 competence (Circlet of Persuasion)

Huh, neat. I'll have to remember that trick.

As for the Leadership thing, the usefulness of a cohort really depends on the build rules. And having one is similar to having an animal companion or an eidolon. Bit more roleplaying oriented, since it's a living breathing intelligent being who isn't bound to you by magic. PbP is great for having a minion, it doesn't eat up time to run them like it would at a table.

Looking at it more:
Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone (5k gp) + Wayfinder (250gp) gives a synergy of a +1 insight to CMB/CMD for 5250. This item uses the (bonus squared)x2500gp formula, and additionally gives you +1 insight to AC. Insight is a powerful bonus, but untyped is the most powerful type of bonus. so this is probably a little better of a place to work with.

===========================

an item of continuous Resinous Skin would be 45k. Not the best price, and there are ways to cheapen it like giving it uses per day rather.

an item of continual Lockjaw would be 48k. same as above in that it could be made more cheaply by doing uses per day or whatever.

the second spell does give a larger bonus, however, but it is untyped. the first spell gives some other side buffs.

The best comparision if you want to do it for untyped would be Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver. That is 4,000 gold for a +2 untyped bonus to CMB for a specific maneuver. Or basically bonus^2*1,000.

At most a circumstance bonus to a maneuver should cost that. Honestly if Voice is okay with it, the couple items I was looking at I can re-engineer using the cost of the gauntlets for the slotted ones, and double that for the slotless ones. I had completely forgotten about the gauntlets till a friend reminded me about them.

Krigare asked me these questions via PM, but since the 1st & 3rd are ones other PCs might want answers to, I decided to reply here:

Krigare wrote:

1) Can we take Leadership, and if we can what build rules would we use for a cohort?

2) You said True Becoming is not allowed at the start, are the other 3 feats that lead up to it allowed? It's a chain to get to.

3) Spheres of Might changes some untyped bonuses to competence bonuses (mainly the bonuses for the equivalent Improved/Greater maneuver feats). Is it possible to change a bonus on a magic item from a competence to something like a circumstance bonus?

1) I'm not sure about Leadership. Firstly, I don't really like the way the feat works, mechanically. Not only does it give you a full 2nd character for just a feat, but the way the followers are handled is pretty awful.

Thus, before I decide on whether to allow Leadership, let me first ask the other players if anybody else wants the feat as well.

3) Yes, but I am unsure how to price this out. If anybody has suggestions, I'm more than willing to listen to them!

Yeah, followers are handled pretty poorly. I was just interested in a cohort, mainly because I have two cool (to me anyway) ideas and can't do both on one character (way to MAD).

After I sent the PM, I thought of another answer for 3, would it be possible to just house rule the talents that replace the Improved/Greater feats to be untyped bonuses like the feats they replace?

@Arcane Trickster - It's a fun looking class. But a gestalt game is a shining opportunity to emulate a PrC ... : )

@Bard Scrolls - Mm!

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Completely unrelated the idea of a scroll merchant isn't too far fetched and it sounds like there's an existing demand. Mehehehe *twirls stache*

What else would a wizard/cleric do for a business? Lol.

@Lessah - Yeah, but that starts to break down to much past the starting level. I mean honestly what I wanted to do for a business makes the most sense with something wizardly and all, and I just like cleric. But I could honestly do it as an unchained rogue/investigator. It would still make sense, and it would have skill points to spare for things. I mean the rogue/investigator would be what, 8 from rogue and 3 from investigator, and an extra 3 background skills a level, before counting anything like human bonus skill or FCB for skills etc. I'd do a rogue/wizard but that always makes me want to take arcane trickster and that just isn't possible in this game. Still might do it but mixing rogue and investigator has a lot of potential for shenanigans.

@GM TWO - Okay, so yeah, if a character has to be completely self sufficient in all areas all the time, then what I was thinking wouldn't work. I did not realize you expected a character to be able to do all of that on top of whatever the class does. Since that seems to be the case I'll go back to the drawing board.

Ah, okay, that's the part I missed. Didn't see that in the feat list.

@Kigvan - How are you getting a +19 to init? Especially with a 12 dex.

Part of the fun of being a wizard is having spells that do a good job for things. They can't completely replace skills, but they do have ways to mitigate the lack of skill points to a degree.

Combining that with cleric is always a fun thing, they work well together, although it does get pretty MAD.

I may just say screw it and go wizard/alchemist or investigator. Reduced the attribute dependency quite a bit, and adds skills. I just was aiming for a cleric/wizard of Nethys.

I too thought about that. Ended up with the following short list:

1) Profession Merchant - for obvious reasons.
2) Appraise - to evaluate deals
3) Sense Motive - to avoid scams
4) Diplomacy - to negotiate deals

Plus probably several of the following:

a) Bluff - to scam or just oversell
b) Knowledge Local/Nobility/Geography ect - to find markets/customers/goods ect
c) Perception - to keep an eye on the goods or spot counterfeits
d) Craft X - if you are making what you are selling
e) Spellcraft - to spot/engage in magical trickery

This was just what I brainstormed so there's no guarantee that it's accurate. But maybe : )

Once you discount what is background skills, there is 4 or 5 skills that I can think of that might be needed. You listed them. It isn't that skill intensive. But GM TWO indicated that it should be. Which is why I was asking him.

Krigare, I somewhat expect your other gestalt class will help support your skill rank desire; going with two low-end skill rank classes ... probably won't help you make for a very good merchant.

So we are on the same page, what skills exactly do you see a merchant requiring?

Krigare wrote:

Yeah but neither get boosted skill ranks.

Don't forget that in Gestalt you get the ranks from whichever class has more and then half of the other, so only getting a couple on the cleric side isn't an issue depending on what you mix it with.

Mixing it with wizard. Not a big deal. Easy enough to get the couple extra from Herald Caller, I don't mind giving up a domain that way.

I'd like to express interest in your ambitious ideas once more. Don't have any idea of what (or even if) inspiration will compel me to build so that shall be all for now : )

Edit: I think I shall be as bold as to point out that the Theosophist actually does still have Linguistics.

Also - it looks like the Ecclesitheurge and Separatist archetypes from Paizo would emulate most of those features.

They don't stack by RAW but you would be able to pick what feels most important to you (clothy-cleric perks or odd domain).

Yeah but neither get boosted skill ranks. I was looking for a cleric something that gave 4 skill ranks per level without going for Herald Caller or Roaming Exorcist. I'd do Cardinal but I think it gives up a bit much for the extra skill ranks and class skills.

Won't be the first time I've done Herald Caller, probably won't be the last. I was just trying for something different.

Two more questions.

1) What templates are allowed for Becoming, True and can it be taken more than once?

2) Is High Aspirant allowed, and can we start with the Rank 2 Membership required for it (without the prestige I would assume, just the Fame to meet the rank requirement)?

Does a Vizier count as a full caster for the limit of one full casting class? And if we take two veilweaving classes, does the essence stack?

I'm interested in making a character for the merchant role.

Since you said we can ask about 3pp, would you allow a cleric with the Theosophist archetype?

This is gonna be theatre of the mind, I prefer that for PbP personally.

For races - all races are available - no limits.

Both unchained and original variants are allowed.

When you say all races, does that include zaniness like the drow noble or custom made races?

Lets see... From me, I have the following questions:

1. Are we limited to Standard, Advanced, or Monstrous racial traits?
2. Is the innocent Blood Story feat approved for use?
3. What level of the Bench pressing table are we trying to keep to?
4. Is VMC approved?
5. Martial traditions from Spheres of Might/Power trade out your starting proficiency with weapons/armor for a themed set of proficiencies and talents... Are those ok to use?
6. I think we have had this discussion before; would you consider Omenwalker from Harbinger sufficient for Dimensional Agility and it's ilk, in this campaign?

I really like the idea of a Nodachi being wielded as a double weapon, just need to figure out a better solution than Spear Dancing style.

Some others:
Restrictions on traits; specifically deity and campaign specific ones;
A request from Josh Ingle for the minor artifact feedback;
That seems to be it, plus Tenro's question.

Plus the question about the Trinity prestige classes. Pretty sure he will say they aren't allowed but it never hurts to ask.

Also, for races from Co7S how many RP should the base race eat up if we want to modify them?

And much like Tenro, I would like to know if the non-humanoid races from Co7S are allowed for a race.

And for skills, if a skill is considered a class skill for any of the classes does it count as a class skill, or only the class skills of whatever we are using as a base class?

Anyway, I'm looking at doing a Striker or Sentinel/Nexus/Theurge for a character. Might mix Striker and Sentinel, just want one thing from Sentinel lol.

Might make a character, if I do it will probably be a wizard.

4d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 5, 5) = 18 16
4d6 ⇒ (1, 6, 6, 2) = 15 14
4d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 5, 2) = 14 12
4d6 ⇒ (4, 2, 6, 1) = 13 12
4d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 5, 4) = 16 14
4d6 ⇒ (1, 6, 6, 4) = 17 16

Well, no reroll for me. Lol.

Is Trinity Knight a valid prestige class for the game?

If we want to use a race from Co7S, like the spiders, how would we calculate how many Race Points we have to modify them?

Aslo, are veilweaving classes counted as casters for the limit of one full caster? And which ones count as full casters if so?

Certain triclass prestige classes like the Trinity Angels and Trinity Knights are a part of one of the Parities in Co7S. Would access to them be restricted? What about other classes like eldritch knight, mystic theurge, etc?

Trinity mages as well. Kind of curious about if access to them is restricted or not.

Krigare wrote:

So for monsters, how does that work with HD above the CR? Like a stone giant is CR 8 but has 12 HD. You only end up with 8 racial HD?

That’s how these rulesets usually handle it, so you don’t end up with more HD than other PCs arbitrarily.

Okay, wanted to make sure I was reading things right.

So for monsters, how does that work with HD above the CR? Like a stone giant is CR 8 but has 12 HD. You only end up with 8 racial HD?

Two questions

1. How does multi-talented interact with gestalt for this game?

2. Can crafting feats be used on your initial wealth, or only after the game starts?

Might be interesting

Would a Darklands/Underdark enhanced Earth Gensai be okay?

I'd be wanting to pair it with wizard, probably with the Worldseeker archetype from Planar Adventures. Not sure about a faction, probably Ciphers since they have always been my go to faction.

For the Celestial Centurion archetype, are the 4th level mantle benefits increased if he limits them to himself, like the 1st level ones are?