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Angvar Thestlecrit

Kolokotroni's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. 8,174 posts (8,202 including aliases). 17 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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Its extremely rare that I will ban a class outright, or a specific race. In general base classes is my prefered method to add options to the game. I'd much rather use a new base class to represent a player's concept then a new feat tree or even an archetype. The only class I've banned that paizo has released is the arcanist. And that is mostly because I have very strong feelings against the whole spontaneous prepared casting thing, and I'd prefer not to go down that road. The summoner I allow, but I require some deliberat non-optimization since in general eidolons just come out super optimized because of their heavy custimization.

In terms of races, I happen to really like weird races in my games. Other then things clearly not meant to be player races (no quickling characters) I generally allow most races. I dont however allow evil characters. But I'm fine with the drizz't school of CG child of an evil race rebelling against the evils of their parents trope. So if you want to play a goblin, or drow, sure, lets go for it. I think the weird fish out of water races can make for some really interesting moments. And they represent relatively less tread territory. I've run games for tons of elves, humans, halflings, and dwarves. But a wayang, grippli and changeling in the party? Thats new territory roleplay wise.

The thing I do require is that all players come to me with non-core options besides base classes they want to use, and I reserve the right to line item veto if I think it is going to be a problem.


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ElementalXX wrote:

Hello, so it happens im a game designer wannabe, i guess many on the forums want to be or are already designers, so i ask this to the people who know.

What does it take to be a game designer? What pointers could you give to a game designer wannabe?

Currently i have a mayor in graphic design and some work experience altought 0 insight on how game industry work. Also i dont live in the US so that could or could be not an issue too.

What does it take to be a game designer? Pretty much the ability to create pdfs and an idea is all it takes in the purest sense. With paizo's store, and thinks like drive through rpg, anyone is capable of publishing game ideas.

If you are asking how to successfuly be a game designer for pathfinder, you probably want to try and get involved as a freelancer first.

As someone mentioned the most straight forward way to get involved in pathfinder is rpg superstar. Every year paizo holds a contest. The winner will get to write a module for paizo and almost certainly will get lots more work for them. Many of them are now full time paizo staff. Even those that dont win but make it far in the competition often get freelance work from paizo and from 3rd party publishers.

That brings us to the second avenue. There are lots of 3rd party publishers that you can get involved with that probably have a slightly lower barrier to entry then paizo does.

In general the idea is to try and get your work out there where people will see it. Then if its good, you can progress to new opportunities.

The community project wayfinder is also a good option. They have two issues a year, and have an open call for ideas. If you get an article in wayfinder you essentially have a guarantee that paizo staff and many 3rd party publishers will read your work. If they like it, you may well be able to get in a pitch for something else or get freelance work.

Also, i dont have the links handy, but a podcast called Know Direction has recorded most of the gencon and paizocon siminars over the last few years. Go back and find the ones about becoming a freelancer or 3rd party publisher. Theres a ton of good advice in those from industry vets.


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NobodysHome wrote:

Another almost-totally-off-topic thought, then I need to get my handoff done for work or my boss will know I've been Paizo-ing all day:

What if we put a bar similar to a high-jump bar at every gate, at exactly the height of the overhead bins?

"If you want to take that bag on board, you have to personally get it over that bar in under 5 seconds, without throwing it. GO!"

Seems like it would help. :-P

I am pretty sure that would violate AMA regulations. Might also be some gender descrimination there too.


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NobodysHome wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

Believe it or not, I flew for a living for several years, and Southwest was FAR superior to any of the "major" carriers (United, Delta, American, etc.) in terms of friendliness, service, timeliness, and comfort. *AND* you don't have to pay for your first 2 checked bags.

The only airlines better than Southwest were the other regional ones: Alaska and Virgin. And those don't go everywhere we need...

I generally fly Jet Blue if I have to domestically... but I just cant get over the idea of 'cattle call' boarding...why on earth would anyone tolerate that? How are people not trampled in the rush to not be crammed in the middle on full flights?

Also, didnt they make big people buy 2 seats a ways back. How does that work if you werent one of the first ones on the plane... you pay for 2 seats but they arent together?

Yeah, forgot Jet Blue. It's really good.

I have NO IDEA. Remember, I'm all of 5'6". I would have to double my already-considerable weight to fill 2 seats.

And it's remarkably polite. There was never any shoving or trampling that I saw. Nothing like a sale at Wal*Mart.

I'll have to take your word for it. My issues with flying would make that the kind of panic that would cause me to injure someone. Being a large person and claustraphobic, the idea of not knowing if i can get a descent seat until im actually trapped in the small metal presurized flying tin can is beyond terrifying.

I like flying first class on british airways. It was literally like a suite, had a door and everything lol. Absolutely no relation to anything cattle does...except possibly the steak I ate.


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NobodysHome wrote:

Believe it or not, I flew for a living for several years, and Southwest was FAR superior to any of the "major" carriers (United, Delta, American, etc.) in terms of friendliness, service, timeliness, and comfort. *AND* you don't have to pay for your first 2 checked bags.

The only airlines better than Southwest were the other regional ones: Alaska and Virgin. And those don't go everywhere we need...

I generally fly Jet Blue if I have to domestically... but I just cant get over the idea of 'cattle call' boarding...why on earth would anyone tolerate that? How are people not trampled in the rush to not be crammed in the middle on full flights?

Also, didnt they make big people buy 2 seats a ways back. How does that work if you werent one of the first ones on the plane... you pay for 2 seats but they arent together?


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NobodysHome wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:


Oh, well. It worked out. But I doubt all 6-year-olds responded as admirably as mine did. (Gotta admit, I was peeved, but proud.)
And I've never ridden another form of public transit that was so utterly cut-throat.

Well, increasing pressure put on passengers by airlines is largely responsible for the cut throat nature. The ever increasing/unweildyness of overhead luggage? Well, I remember when I was a kid, even domestic flights allowed you to check a bag usually 2 for free. Now you are looking at 200 bucks more if you want to check bags. So people cram as much as they can into their free carryone luggage.

As for your particular example...does southwest actually seat on first come first serve IN the plane? Like as you walk on you sit wherever you want? I've never flown southwest and never will. But I am somehow baffled by the idea that your seat is not set in checkin or when you book, but when you actually sit down...

Yes. Southwest is a "First come, first serve" "cattle call".

They've changed in recent years. You can pay $10 to be in the first group to board. You can pre-check-in online 24 hours beforehand and be virtually assured of a first-group pass.

We were just caught unawares by the change in policy, which you'd think would have popped up the moment we booked two child tickets.

The "free" seating had worked very well in the past, as sometimes the kids wanted to be in one row (and Dad would be banished to a middle seat somewhere else), and sometimes they wanted two rows. That year was the year we stopped flying for a while...

I cant even...really? We really are the walmart generation arent we? Quality, class, meh, make it cheaper!


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Legendarius wrote:
On the side topic of overhead bags, I wish the attendants would be clear that if you have two bags (aka one bag and a "personal item") that one of them must go under your seat and the other in the overhead. A lot of times I see people put two bags up in the overhead to get more room around their legs and then it makes it difficult for others to get their bag in the overhead. Not like if I can't find a spot in the overhead that I can put my bag under your seat. That's one of my pet peeves.

I know what you mean, but I still dont blame those people. If the airlines didnt charge an arm and a leg for checking bags, people wouldnt have as much carryon luggage, and if they didnt cram us in like sardines, having a bag under the seat in front of you wouldnt be as much of an issue in terms of leg room.


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NobodysHome wrote:


Oh, well. It worked out. But I doubt all 6-year-olds responded as admirably as mine did. (Gotta admit, I was peeved, but proud.)
And I've never ridden another form of public transit that was so utterly cut-throat.

Well, increasing pressure put on passengers by airlines is largely responsible for the cut throat nature. The ever increasing/unweildyness of overhead luggage? Well, I remember when I was a kid, even domestic flights allowed you to check a bag usually 2 for free. Now you are looking at 200 bucks more if you want to check bags. So people cram as much as they can into their free carryone luggage.

As for your particular example...does southwest actually seat on first come first serve IN the plane? Like as you walk on you sit wherever you want? I've never flown southwest and never will. But I am somehow baffled by the idea that your seat is not set in checkin or when you book, but when you actually sit down...


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Artful Dodger wrote:

So far we have the agreement that Lead Blades/Impact do not stack because it's explicitly stated in the FAQ, and the agreement that spiked and bashing are isolated to the shield and therefore are only held up to the unarmed damage after they're applied to the shield. That leaves us just with...

The bonuses available to a monk. This still isn't preventing a 6d6 bash at level 12, or a 8d8 bash at level 20.

Which has nothing to do with the brawler class.

And 6d6 while seems like alot is actually just an average of 21 damage. At 12th level that isnt a huge amount for using lots of expenable reasources outside your class to buff you.

Edit:

Go look at the dpr olympics theads. Most optimized fighter builds can cross 100 damage per round without outside buffs at 10th level. 21 damage a hit isnt particularly special in that context. A raging barbarian can do that at like 4th level...


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Also if I ever find out who ever thought it was a good idea to create the convention of putting the recline button on the inside of the seat on most airline seats...he(or she) and I are going to have words...violent words.


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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

At this point I've simply resigned myself to knowing that flying isn't a glamorous experience. It's oddly liberating. It's a twisted sort of enlightenment falling under the "things I cannot change" category. I basically just put on my headphones and try to zone out for a couple of hours. I read mostly.

As a large man who is also claustraphobic, I've resigned myself to the idea that unless absolutely necessary (IE brother getting married in another country) I am not going to fly. I simply have no desire to patronize american air carriers. They are among the worst of the worst in my mind in terms of corporate abuse and mistreatement of customers.

Internationally I'll fly a European air carrier. Domestically, I just wont fly. Cruises are nice. I like boats.


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thejeff wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
And also there is the fact that European airlines have real competition. Eurail. It is an entirely reasonable option for a European traveling within Europe to take a train instead of plane. Competing with Trains means comfort has to be a priority. Because there isnt a monumental difference in the time it takes to fly vs take a train from london to paris. But for the price of a plane ticket, I can probably get a cabin on a train if I shared it with one other person (I generally dont travel alone). A few hours longer travel time is generally worth the comfort of train travel to alot of people.

God, I'd love to have a good rail system in the US.

Me too. If there was, I'd never friggan fly domestically. Ever. Unfortunately, what we have blows, and is barely treading water because americans for some reason dont like trains.


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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

I said "perfect world" not "realistic."

However, business class only solves the legroom issue and that only to a small degree. It does not solve any of the other issues.

Wait, have you had an 'unwashed masses' experience in business class? I generally fly business class when I go domestically, and pretty much have experienced exactly what you have described, no kids, quiet, lots of booze, and everyone kept to themselves. Have you experienced something different?


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thejeff wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:

I am a large man. I am somewhat overweight, but my issue on airplanes isnt related to that, its that I am large. My legs and hips are thick, not because of fat, but because I play soccer, and I run. My shoulders are wide. I could be anerexic, my shoulders would still be wider then the typical airline seat.

My size makes flying 'economy' very unpleasant, in particular because the size of my legs, hips and rear end means I am effectively elevated compared to most people. This makes reclining an issue for me since regardless of my posture, this will bring the seat in front of me in contact with my legs.

We all know airlines have in recent years added seats to coach to up profits. That means less space. For example, recently I flew from new york to europe. I made the mistake of flying united to london, but on the way back I flew luftansa. It was the same 747 plane, but there was a dramatic difference in the leg room between united's flight and luftansa.

Most of the airline seats were initially designed for the amount of space luftansa and most european carriers allow between seats. Typical american airlines have significantly less room now. So the fact that you are able to recline, doesnt really make it ok.

The seat isnt being used in the manner it was designed for by the airlines. Particulary on domestic flights, if you recline, you are being a jerk. Plane and simple. Unless you have some sort of medical issue, you are placeing your comfort above that of the person behind you. In my book that is never ok.

It's all part of the competition for lower airfare. Less room between seats means more seats on the plane. As much as everyone complains about service and space and everything else, people consistently go for the cheaper option, probably without realizing what they're driving.

Are those european carriers regulated in the ways that US carriers no longer are?

Agree, I am never going to just pick the cheapest flight again. I was headed to a very expensive 2 week 'vacation' for my brothers wedding, so I sort of had to go on the cheap. But in the future, I wont fly an american carrier again, period.

And yea those european airlines have far more regulations on not being allowed to make passengers miserable. I particularly liked my hop with aegean airlines (greek airline) where they offered as snack to the passengers even before the saftey briefing was finished. Boy do they know their customers (never deal with a hungry Greek, we are intolerable).

And also there is the fact that European airlines have real competition. Eurail. It is an entirely reasonable option for a European traveling within Europe to take a train instead of plane. Competing with Trains means comfort has to be a priority. Because there isnt a monumental difference in the time it takes to fly vs take a train from london to paris. But for the price of a plane ticket, I can probably get a cabin on a train if I shared it with one other person (I generally dont travel alone). A few hours longer travel time is generally worth the comfort of train travel to alot of people.


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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

...

Anyway, I have no real points to make. I'm just ranting.

We like your rants, Tiny Coffee Golem!

And I really do want to emphasize: I see a ton of "professional" travelers who are NOT part of the problem.

The problem is the 10% of passengers who have no concept of what they are doing and delay everyone else, and the flight attendants are unwilling to "Just Say No" to them...

I do wish there were professional traveler only flights. Basically you can't get on these mytical flight without booking through your company website. No kids. No "Civilians." Just get on. Stow your s&%*. Sit down. Then wait patiently to order our mid-flight Vodka Tonics. Also, no talking. The only acceptable phrases are, "pardon me," "thank you,: and "Vodka Tonic Please." That's it. Everyone get on your laptop/device or read your paper. I don't care what you do, but STFU so I can ready my e-book in peace. I have noise cancelling headphones not for the plane noise, but for the inane chatter I can't help but overhear.

*sigh* in a perfect world.

This is why business class exists. Or do you somehow think that your airline that excludes a huge portion of its potential customers would somehow not cost more per flight? If an air carrier catered exclusively to business passengers, they would invariably have fewer passengers per flight, meaning costs would be higher. Effectively every ticket on such an airline would cost what a business class ticket costs, maybe even what a first class ticket costs. Not that you would mind flying everywhere first class ofcourse, but it would cost.

From your description I presume you were flying economy. There is zero chance of you having economy prices on flights without said unwashed masses. The numbers simply arent there.


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Pan wrote:
On the topic of waiting for baggage, its actually gotten sooooo much faster because nobody checks anymore. I probably should shut up about this little secret but I have been off the plane and had my bags in hand before people on the plane have gotten out while waiting for overheads to come down and get out.

Indeed except on international flights, where checking is still common, then its slow as heck, but those are also generally larger capacity planes.


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I am a large man. I am somewhat overweight, but my issue on airplanes isnt related to that, its that I am large. My legs and hips are thick, not because of fat, but because I play soccer, and I run. My shoulders are wide. I could be anerexic, my shoulders would still be wider then the typical airline seat.

My size makes flying 'economy' very unpleasant, in particular because the size of my legs, hips and rear end means I am effectively elevated compared to most people. This makes reclining an issue for me since regardless of my posture, this will bring the seat in front of me in contact with my legs.

We all know airlines have in recent years added seats to coach to up profits. That means less space. For example, recently I flew from new york to europe. I made the mistake of flying united to london, but on the way back I flew luftansa. It was the same 747 plane, but there was a dramatic difference in the leg room between united's flight and luftansa.

Most of the airline seats were initially designed for the amount of space luftansa and most european carriers allow between seats. Typical american airlines have significantly less room now. So the fact that you are able to recline, doesnt really make it ok.

The seat isnt being used in the manner it was designed for by the airlines. Particulary on domestic flights, if you recline, you are being a jerk. Plane and simple. Unless you have some sort of medical issue, you are placeing your comfort above that of the person behind you. In my book that is never ok.


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This is skull and shackles right? Make his ship the home settlement. Its a bit unorthadox, but its the best fit for the downtime rules. Just make the 'home settlement' the ship and any port it is currently docked in.


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Doomed Hero wrote:
Why do so many people seem to think that paladins have weird hangups about sex?

Because historically (game wise) many people have made paladins into thematic parallels with Western Cultures Religious Zealots within the Christian Church. Which in many cases includes some very..lets say Catholic...views on sexual behavior.

I remember the 3.0 book on paladins/divine characters (cant remember the name of it right now) actually mentioned something along the lines of 'You know paladins dont have to be celebate stick in the muds to be lawful and good'. Its just something that many people have associated with the deeply devout since many major wester churches have very stringent views on sex, so it has played out when they pretended to be similar characters in a fantasy setting.


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So I just noticed something and am wondering if this was intentional or accidental. The armor profficiency section of the dracomancer doesnt have the usual language about being able to cast spells in light armor without penalty. Should dracomancers have to deal with arcane spell failure when wearing light armor/using sheilds?


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Alexander Hickman wrote:

Hi all, couldn't find this mentioned anywhere so I'll ask.

How should I handle long term i.e. several months of downtime?

Im planning a Kingmaker style campaign using the Ultimate Campaign kingdom building rules, and I was looking at the downtime rules, and it seemed to me that they dont make any sense for long periods of time.

The numbe of rolls required, should a PC spend, say six months running their business, seems to be excessive, and multiply it by five or six PCs, and you are getting silly.

I want the PCs to be working on their private projects, so has anyone got any shortcuts?

Cheers

For long periods just make everyone take 10 on their rolls.

Basically seperate each thing into months. Any recruiting/building they want to do is in a month (4 weeks). Only update the earnings of a building/organization at the end of the month. For each downtime month, They have 3 weeks (15 days) where they can run their business (one week has to be spend on the kingdom) and 4 weeks of earnings for thier business (it earns with or without the player).

Whatever skill they are going to use to either run a business or earn capital on their own, add 10 to that, multiply by 15. For their earnings from the business, Figure out the modifiers, add 10, multiply by 20. Boom, 1 month done in about 2-3 minutes per player.


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Assuming the half god is not of an evil alignment (given they want heroes I am assuming as such) I dont see an issue unless your deity has some prohibition against procreation out of wedlock. Its certainly not against any general paladin's code. Especially if this demigod is some agent of good.


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Artful Dodger wrote:

So, assuming we can throw out spiked and bashing (three size categories) and cite the rule that Lead Blades and Impact overlap instead of stack, that leaves us four increments short. The Shield Champion is now only bashing for 8d6 at level 12 (4d6 without that druid magic), and 12d8 (6d8 without druid magic) at level 20. Are there any other interactions we can rule out? I'm hoping for more RAW than RAI here, but I'll take what I can get which is well-supported.

Edit: I would also really appreciate some official address to the language to get rid of the ambiguity.

Its not really ambiguous. Shield spikes and bashing modify the damage of the sheild. The ability says to compare the damage done by the sheild against the brawlers unarmed damage, if the sheild does more damage, this ability has no affect. Its just a matter of not intentionally misreading the rules in order to rack up more d6's.


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If you want rules, i'd just use some form of the downtime rules for building an organization. He could gain 'influence' for any number of activities, which could be used to recruit members. Whether is intimidation, diplomacy, or plot events.


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Dispari Scuro wrote:

I was wondering something similar for warpriests using natural weapons. If you have weapon focus, you should be using your warpriest damage instead of the natural attack's damage. But if you take improved natural attack, do they go up a size category?

I'm actually somewhat assuming that the monk/brawler/warpriest damage simply overwrites whatever is underneath it. Meaning improved natural attack, or shield spikes, do not "stack." Your heavy spiked shield would be doing 1d6. Upping it with the bashing property puts it at 2d6. But that's how much your unarmed damage is anyway, so there's no net gain.

In other words, in light of doing 48d6 with a shield, it seems more likely that things like spikes, bashing property, and in the warpriest's case improved natural attack, simply go to waste as they're overwritten by the unarmed damage.

Yes, a warpriest who had a natural attack as a focus weapon would benefit little from improved natural weapon. You compare them after immediate modifiers, not before.


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As far as I understand it, affects that change the damage die of the shield should be done before comparing it to the unarmed damage of the brawler.

So a shield spike as well as bashing, and impact would be applied first. So neither close weapon mastery or the shield champion ability alter the damage here at all.


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williamoak wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:

When you say 'casting focus' what exactly do you mean. Most of the alchemist spells are buffs or utlitity spells. That doesnt really fit a conceptual niche for the thing they 'do', particularly in combat.

One thing I've looked at pretty heavily is maching actual alchemy and alchemical items a bigger party of the alchemist's activity. And I dont mean just bombinb, but also the control/debuff alchemical items. Particularly if you combine this with the swift alchemy rules from the Alchemy Manual, and give them the ability to scale dc's with level and the alchemist's ability scores, it can make for a meaningful contribution to their 'stuff'.

I like that Kolokotroni! I had thought of similar things in the past, but had forgotten. Hm...

As for "casting focus" it's true it dont seem the most useful considering the spell list. I'm having a hard time expressing my desire.

I get where you are coming from though. It seems like the alchemists main thing should come from, well alchemy, so i actually created an archetype that dumped the pseudo casting extracts entirely in favore of swift alchemy (put together alchemical items dramatically faster if you have the right ingredients on hand) and a focus on alchemical items, including for at least a few concoctions at a time, bypassing the cost and having scaling dcs for those items.

What this does is make poisons, alchemical items remedies and weapons, useful utility items. Especially if you consider some of the very interesting poisons and items in the alchemy manual and what appeared in ultimate equipment.


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Lemmy wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:

Effectively the rogue has now more or less officially been divided up into its component concepts:

Mystical Sneaky assasin - Ninja
Dashing swashbucker - Swashbuckler
Back Alley Murderer - Slayer
Intelligence based sherlock holmes stype - Investigator
Indiana Jones - Archelogist Bard
Vile Poisoner - Ninja OR Alchemist

And these aren't the only options...

Mystical Sneaky Assasin - Bard, Inquisitor and Ranger do this very well.
Dashing Swashbuckler - Bard and Inquisitor are pretty good at this. So is anything with decent Cha and Dervish Dance, even some Barbarians.
Back Alley Murderer - Pretty much all of the classes I mentioned.
Int-based Sherlock Holmes Type - Alchemist, Bard, Slayer and even Magus and Inquisitor also work here.
Indiana Jones - Again, pretty much every class I mentioned.
Vile Poisoner - Anything with poison use, really. That said... I'd avoid using poison in PF. It's too expensive to craft and not all that effective.

Agreed, I am just pointing out that with the addition of the slayer, investigator and swashbuckler, its alot more clear. There are countless threads on how specific builds/archetypes could replicate aspects of the rogue, but those 3 base classes along with the ninja are far simpler and straightforward examples in my mind.


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When you say 'casting focus' what exactly do you mean. Most of the alchemist spells are buffs or utlitity spells. That doesnt really fit a conceptual niche for the thing they 'do', particularly in combat.

One thing I've looked at pretty heavily is maching actual alchemy and alchemical items a bigger party of the alchemist's activity. And I dont mean just bombinb, but also the control/debuff alchemical items. Particularly if you combine this with the swift alchemy rules from the Alchemy Manual, and give them the ability to scale dc's with level and the alchemist's ability scores, it can make for a meaningful contribution to their 'stuff'.


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Effectively the rogue has now more or less officially been divided up into its component concepts:

Mystical Sneaky assasin - Ninja
Dashing swashbucker - Swashbuckler
Back Alley Murderer - Slayer
Intelligence based sherlock holmes stype - Investigator
Indiana Jones - Archelogist Bard
Vile Poisoner - Ninja OR Alchemist

Much like the core monk, the rogue tried to be too much and do too much at once, and isnt particularly good at any of those things as a result.

These component classes/ class-archtype combos are more focused, and have more mechanics tieing directly into their core concepts. They are also all either less/not reliant on sneak attack for combat prowess, OR they have the means to supply themselves with the circumstances for sneak attack.

Baring a very extreme example I'd recommend any one of these classes to a player over the base rogue, simply because it will be easier to get their concept working effectively for the class that fits.


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Paizo didnt make up either of these names. Aasimar is a dnd race introduced in 2nd edition. Wayang is based on Indonesian folklore and a tradition of shadow puppetry.


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I've divorced magic items and wealth in my game. Permanent magic items cant be crafted by normal means, and are effectively priceless and rare artifacts (I have a whole set of house rules to deal with the power game caused by a lack of magic items). Doing this means the only 'pricey' things around are wands, scrolls and potions. Consumables. This means that while you can still have your players be fabulously wealthy, they dont HAVE to be.

In a friend's E6 game this has allowed some fairly normal interactions with the economy, including using the downtime rules to put together businesses using a significant portion of our wealth.


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strongblade wrote:
Rogue Genius Games wrote:
It's actually kind of looking like a short dracomancer follow-up might appear, with favored class bonuses, a few archetypes, and the fco info. I'm not sure yet, but it's possible.
Nice. Here's hoping.

I'd love to see it, one downside of the genius classes is a lack of favored class bonuses. Even the ones that have them from the old FCO products dont have them for ARG races, and the ones released since dont have any. Its not a dealbreaker by any means. But its generally nice to have.


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By the way, owen, any chance of us seeing favored class options for the dragonmancer? I think most of the options for the dragonrider work for the dragonmancer since they were all related to the mount, but it would be nice to have something from the source on the subject.


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So I have been on vacation, and though I managed to purchase and download this from the wifi available at the airport, I didnt really get a chance to dig into this, until now.

First and foremost, I love it. I've been waiting for this basically since the dragonrider came out. I like the dragonrider a lot but it wasnt quite what I was looking for. I generally like castery classes more then martial ones, particularly multirole castery types. No to mention I prefer charismatic characters, because I find it fun to be a charming hero as opposed to gruff understated loner #2534234.

I also like Dragons. And despite being based on a game were 1 of the 2 words in the title (besides 'and') was Dragons, dragons appear relatively infrequently in pathfinder in terms of character options. You have the creatures themselves, you have 1 sorceror and 1 blood rager bloodline, and one prestige class. There are comparatively few dragon themed spells in pathfinder, Kobolds and their draconic heritage are more or less lost in the crowd of other low level enemies, and dont function well as opponents after the first adventure of a typical game. Heck the so called 'dragon shaman' druid archetype doesnt actually involve dragons. It's really the lizard shaman.

It always seemed to me like there wasnt enough coverage. A few years ago super genius games came out with the dragon rider, and I was like woohoo, heres some serious dragon flavor. Not to mention (in my mind) Owen delivered both a balanced class (so long as you actually read and understand the rules and limitation) as well as a plausible explanation for why nearly immortal, powerful beings would bond themselves to lowly adventurers. Since then 3 seperate player characters have been dragon riders in games I've played in, and they have appeared as npcs on a few occassions.

But something was still missing. After all dragons are intimately associated with magic in the heritage of the game. The summoner offered something close to what I wanted if I simply shaped the eidolon to be a dragon, but that class has its own problems, and was missing certain spells that I thought were needed for a master of dragons.

Enter the dragonmancer. Its pretty much everything I could have hoped for and more. I am not sure how, but somehow I am going to play one at my next opportunity. And since I am running Iron Gods starting in 2 weeks, my players are totally fighting a techno dragonmancer riding a cybernetic dragon with lazerbeamss on its head. I dont know HOW i am doing that yet, maybe a homebrew archetype, but its happening.

Anyway, thank you Owen, and while we wait for the Genius Guide to Dragonmagic, maybe we could get a bullet point or two? Summon Dragon Spells seem like a necessity for a 'dragonmancer' to me.


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Falantrius wrote:
Seranov wrote:
Paizo probably didn't want to give too many specifics about covens, so that the DM can just make them as they please, instead of being like IT MUST BE LIKE THIS.
Not sure what I can say about most of the comments but I am totally with you what you are saying. We have tried to create decent witches and we just end up creating our own classes. We just hate to do that - I'd love to be part of a group that updated the witch - but based on comments - not sure that would ever happen.

I dont know how many people on the forums could actually help you. I would hazzard a guess that the vast majority of gamers know very little of the wicca religion, so designing a that represents it would be extremely challenging for them.

That said, given that it follows the fantasy trope, and not the real world religion, trying to create a 'Witch' (Game Term) that 'feels' like a good representation of a Wicca Priestess, would be better served with a different class. Druid Comes to mind, Nature connected divine caster, or maybe just a straight up cleric with domains made to match the desired theme. The new Shaman class out of the Advanced Class Guide might also be a solid choice now that I think about it. It might take some retheming, but it might acutally work very well as a representation of a Wicca priest or priestess in a fantasy setting.


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NobodysHome wrote:


I'm afraid you're making exactly the point I was trying to make.

*I* don't get followed around at stores. *I* don't have the problems you do.

Why not?

Because I'm white and you're black.

That's a MAJOR issue. The security guards should be disciplined or out-and-out fired. You are suffering *because* you are being treated differently from me.

It is an inherent problem that *YOU* can do nothing about.

What can *I* do?

Unfortunately, because I am not the employer of those security guards, I can't discipline them. If you were to name the store, I'd happily boycott it on your behalf.

But *I* would treat you as another person if I were to meet you.

And I'm being told that's not enough.

Actually, there is something you can and should do. And it is something those of us who are enjoy privaledge dont do often enough. Speak out, speak up.

There is in fact something you can do. Something we all can do but especially white people. Our privaledge gives up opportunities to act in a way that those without it dont.

This video actually is a great explanation of what we can do to help make the world a better place.

It means you need to do more then be responsible for your own actions. You need to speak out, and act against the actions of others whom you know is wrong. It means not ignoring casual racism amongs your white peers, or turning a blind eye when someone is doing something like what is mentioned in the video.

Being white gives you more room to act in situations like that. As the woman mentioned. If she spoke up, she's just the 'angry black lady' who see's racists everywhere. If I as a white man call out a security guard for unnecessarily following a black kid around the store, I certainly wont be branded the 'angry black man'. Chances are the store's owner was happy when I walked in. He sees me and thinks 'customer'. If I am unhappy with the service in his business, he is far more likely to act to change something.

And honestly, that is what needs to change. Its not enough for white people to simply not do something racist themselves. They need to act against the every day racism that white privaledge represents. Sometimes that means chewing out a cashier at a grocery store. Sometimes it means telling someone to shut up about changing the race or gender of a comic book character in a film or new comic.

And it also means, that as a New Yorker, I dont get to just say 'Hey Crime Rates are down, so no big deal right?' when the discussion of 'stop and frisk' comes up. Do I like low crime rates? Absolutely. Doesnt mean its acceptable that I am generally pleased and feel safer in the presense of police officers, and my black peers generally do not. Thats not acceptable. I have to speak out against it even if I benefit from it.


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Kittyburger wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
Kittyburger wrote:
Correia dismisses discussion of actual incidents of sexism by women, discussion of actual incidents of racism by people of color, actual incidents of gender identity and sexual orientation bias by LGBTQIA+ people (notice a running theme here?).

Where?

George never mentioned any actual incidents of racism, sexism, or sexual orientation bias. He insinuated that the predominately white, straight, male makeup of GenCon is the result of racism, sexism, and sexual orientation bias, but never actually bothered to identify the actual source of any of those problems. I'm guessing this is primarily because: a) Insinuating that racism is a problem is easy to do (and doesn't require pesky evidence), while actually identifying its source is hard; b) the primary cause of the lack of diversity he sees probably isn't actually racism, sexism, or sexual orientation bias - that's a far less parsimonious explanation than, say, socioeconomic status, geographic location, and so on; and c) bringing up actual incidents would open George up to people actually involved in those incidents offering alternative (contradictory) explanations for them.

In short, Correia literally cannot be dismissive of something that was never mentioned there to begin with.

Wait, people literally running around GenCon in Nazi paraphernalia isn't a specific actual incident?

If I was a person of color, knowing that white people are eager to latch onto any excuse to ignore the experiences of people of color that don't reinforce white supremacy, I'd be reluctant to share specific examples from my own experience, too.

So, given that this is the perception, and it seems to be a fairly widespread perception among people of color given that it's one that I've seen online and heard in person many times before, might it not behoove us to examine our own behavior and see if it might actually possess merit, instead of rejecting it out of hand?

There was A person in Nazi Cosplay, there was A booth with nazi paraphernalia. Thats 2 people out of 50,000 attendees plus staff, merchants and guest speakers.


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mechaPoet wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:

The issue is that some people have a flat tire on their car. The issue isn't how some people have tires that aren't flat.

By describing an issue with flat tires as "non-flat tire privilege" you (1) skew the issue away from the actual problem, (2) lose credibility with people who's tires aren't flat.

All right, so what I'm getting here is:

The problem is that institutionalized racism is bad for non-whites. It has nothing to do with how white people don't suffer from institutionalized racism.

The whole point is that it's all relative and comparative.

1. White privilege doesn't distract from the problem, because it's descriptive of the problem: white people have their skin color treated as the default (see: "flesh-colored" Band-Aids), their names treated as "normal," their natural hair is never considered "unprofessional." They aren't disproportionately pulled over by cops, illegally searched by cops, brutally murdered by cops and vigilantes. White privilege is a term that explains the racial disparity that is the problem. You can't talk about racism without talking about the people that aren't affected by that racism in even close to the same way.

2. Glad to know that you don't find me credible for using a term that I've explained several times and provided helpful explanatory links to. Unless you're just talking about some other "people whose tires aren't flat" and not yourself????

Your links are extremely helpful and they certainly help explain for someone who is willing to read them. But as you mentioned before you shouldnt have to post those links, or walk around with flyiers to be able to talk about this problem. But that specific term, makes that necessary with a majority of the people who need to learn, understand and act on the issue.

As I said before. Its not white privaledge. Its White, Anglo-Saxon, Straight, Male, Protestant, Wealthy Privaledge. Alter any of those terms and the degree and nature of that privaledge changes.

By using the Term White Privaledge, you are not only invoking a negative image in the minds of those people that most need to be educated on the subject. You are also being inaccurate.

My Name? Not normal, 'flesh colored bandaids?' about as close to my skin tone as it is to an asian person or a hispanic. My hair? Not 'normal' since the 1950s. At the same time, I no one will argue with my choice of mate (I am straight), I dont worry about whether or not the police will randomly shoot me, or whether I will be sexually assaulted on my way home from work (white male). My sense of cultural pride? Comes from the fact that my parents dragged me to school AFTER school and had someone from our community teach me our language, and our history. Didnt come from movies, or for the most part from history books. Hell, the English word for my people, Greeks, is an insult. Not a racial slur. Not slang. The actual dictionary english word was one assigned to us by another people that conquered us that is at best like calling a Native Amrerican an Indian, and more likely a direct attempt to diminish my people's heritage.

We are in fact a disperate nation. The term white itself ignores the diverity of culture and challege that makes up, at the moment, a majority of this nation.

Jews are white. Are we going to sit here honestly and say their privaledge is the same as the rich WASP? A Serb who's family came here to escape the mess that is the former Yugoslavia doesnt know what oppression feels like? How about my family that lived under the Military Junta in Greece in the late 60's and 70's?

White Privaledge is a bad term because its immflamatory, and because its not accurate. It implies at its core, that their all white people recieve this privaledge, which isnt remotely true, since the term white itself, is inaccurate. You arent being descriptive. You are being dismissive.

Do all 'white' people share certain benefits? Certainly. But not all of them share all of the privaledges. And by using the massive generalization that is 'white privaledge' you dont just not make your point. You actually turn people that would be receptive to the idea against you. Many of those 'white' people know what oppression and systemic racism is like. And they would be allies in the fight if they didnt think you were calling them southern plantation owners with the first words you speak describing the problem.


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E: Gestalt with synthesist summoner. 2 evolution points gets you flight equal to your land speed. Each additional point you put into it (24 at 20th level) gets you +20ft. Extra evolution gets you 20ft each time you take it.


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blahpers wrote:
Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:

To my experience it is not possible to play pathfinder RAW. There are countless omissions or contradictions for rule interactions.

Some people view this as something to be fixed, and for a lot of it that is true. On the other-hand if the rules were ironclad, then PF would be better suited as a video game with a GM mode to create encounters and campaigns.

That about sums it up. It isn't unique to Pathfinder, either; it's as old as RPGs. Older if you want to go back to things like poker and other pastimes in which everybody has a slightly different understanding of the rules because the rules evolved differently in their area.

I think there is a difference between the rules being ironclad and immovable like a video game, and them being functional as written. And even if they were somehow so, I'd still say dms are better then video games, because in the end video games can only do what they are programmed for, the gm can improvise.


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Greylurker wrote:


talking about magic

One of the things I noticed in the Spells is that a lot of them have had their duration changed to Concentration. Conjure Monsters - Concentration, Invisibility - Concentration, Antimagic Shell - Concentration Barkskin - Concentration, Fly - Concentration, Hold Person - Concentration, Flesh to Stone - Concentration, etc....

Concentration is a bit easier than previous editions but the simple fact is, you are running only 1 spell at a time for the most part, eliminating the huge Bluff stack you tend to see in PF.

(and in the case of Fly, Concentration drops so do you, none of this float gently to the ground when the spell runs out. Someone with a Bow will pluck you right out of the air)

Thats definately interesting. One of the things I've been looking at is the Riven Mage, by Rogue Genius Games. Instead of requiring concentrating, these effects instead last mostly for very short durations, like rounds/2 levels mostly. And every spell scales, you dont have a gillion different spells, just a bunch of basic effects that you put more or less energy into.

Different approach to concentration, but I think it has a similar effect. No mega buff combinations.


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Malwing wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Actually a Paladin can "radar a room", it just takes longer. The Paladin has the option of using Detect Evil normally - a cone effect that takes 3 rounds to give him/her the detailed information on "this creature is evil with (strength) aura, this creature is... etc...." - or using it as a targeted effect that gives all that information immediately but is limited to one person.

I see "At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range."

I see no where that they can radar a room. I see that they can detect evil as the spell leading to a specification on how it works differently.

Read it again,

At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell.
[Period]
A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds.

So there are two aspects to this ability. One is that they can detect evil as the spell. The other is a special version of detect evil that only paladins can do. They can do both.


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knightnday wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:

I like pathfinder. I think its a great system. I like what paizo has done with it by and large. That doesnt mean I dont think it could be better.

Also, I enjoy debating things on internet forums. Pathfinder is a thing i like with disperate ideas, and without any kind of real 'bad' side. Debating pathfinder stuff on the internet is fun for me. And I think a productive analysis of something I like. The more I undestand the rules of the game, and disperate view points on those rules, the better I can make my game at home. Sometimes the debate itself is an end worthy of persuit.

This is a great post and I wish it was indicative of how more people felt who argue here. But it is the internet, and there are people who get their jollies by tearing down what others like or love. A spirited debate can be good and even improve the product. Some of what we get, however, isn't on the same level as what Kolokotroni is going for and only serves to make the place unpleasant.

I love this game, whether just out of the box or modified to taste. It can be better, but it could be FAR worse. It gives me the platform to play out of the box with others with only minor disagreements or to modify to my heart's content for any number of games.

For me at least, a lot of the debates have driven house rules I've written, and I have further ideas that I am tinkering with. When they are mature I'll share them with the community, because thats honestly half of what I love about pathfinder. Paizo wants us to be a community.

Early in PFRPGs career, I honestly thought paizo made a mistake for not having an 'optimization' board or something of the like. But now I think they are right to force us all together. The 'roleplay vs rollplay' argument needs to be had, because in general, contact between opposing view points has an effect of pushing everyone to the middle. Isolation of viewpoints tends to radicalize.

Every once in a while the 'dont play x, x are stupid' crowd needs to be shouted down by people who think concept is important. And the people who make deliberately bad choices because 'roleplaying' need to be reminded that their characters are going into extremely dangerous situations. And being an expert basket weaver, while interesting, might not make the best case for them being included.

Even if there are more arguments because of it (and god is there really a caster vs martial conversation going on in THIS thread right now?) I think the community and the game are healthier for the exchange of ideas instead of the insular way I felt like the wizards boards pushed the community by dividing it.


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I like pathfinder. I think its a great system. I like what paizo has done with it by and large. That doesnt mean I dont think it could be better.

Also, I enjoy debating things on internet forums. Pathfinder is a thing i like with disperate ideas, and without any kind of real 'bad' side. Debating pathfinder stuff on the internet is fun for me. And I think a productive analysis of something I like. The more I undestand the rules of the game, and disperate view points on those rules, the better I can make my game at home. Sometimes the debate itself is an end worthy of persuit.


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mechaPoet wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Just to be clear, I am not somehow exempt from privaledge. I just think the blanket statement of white privaledge is pretty ignorant. There is more to the story then that. And simply calling it white privaledge is more divisive then it needs to be.

How is it ignorant? It describes the privilege that comes from being white or perceived as white. Those articles address white privilege, and some list even more forms of privilege, but there are an inexhaustible number of possible privileges that can be at work in a given context. Being Greek and looking different from other white people is certainly a way that you differ from the average holder of white privilege. In this case we would be talking about you lacking something we could call Anglo privilege, or Germanic privilege, or whatever. I'm easily identified as white, and very pale. So I have an enhanced form of white privilege compared to you--no matter how tan I get, I doubt I would ever be construed as non-white, and strangers don't come up to me to ask what race I am (a common enough occurrence for people of somewhat indeterminable race, or American-Asians who are asked by random strangers, "What are you?" or "Where are you from? No, where are you really from?"). But to be more specific to your case: historical erasure is awful, yeah, but that's also part of white privilege: the presentation of history as the progress of almost exclusively white people, and they have to be the right kind of white people. Getting "randomly" selected at airport screenings for being not white enough sure seems like white privilege to me.

My point is there are lots of degrees of privaledge. And the idea that there is a single unified 'white' is ignorant. The articles you stated talked about things like seeing people 'like you' in magazines/movies, or learning about 'your history' in school. Unless you are Straight Male White Anglo Saxon Protestant and wealthy, you dont enjoy all of perceived privaledges. There are different degrees of privaledge. So calling it 'White' Privaledge is ignorant.

And my brother, doesnt get stopped by airport security for 'random' screenings. He gets stopped because he looks middle eastern, but has a European Sounding Name. He doesnt get the presumption of 'white' from a very important section of law enforcement agents. Thats one of I think the more important aspects of white privaledge is it not?

Quote:

Pointing out white privilege doesn't have to be divisive. What would you prefer we call it? Should I explain the concept in full every time I see the need to talk about it? Should I print out articles about white privilege to hand to offended white people so they can fully understand what I'm talking about? I want people to understand it, but it feels like pulling teeth to get people to talk about it if they're unfamiliar with the concept. It's not my job or any non-white person's job to educate people about white privilege, and it sure as hell isn't my job to coddle white people who are offended by my pointing out that they benefit from a racist system, even if they have no direct hand in it.

Until its common knowledge, yes you have to explain it. No its not your job to educate people. But you also cant expect people who dont understand it to respond positively when its mentioned without the explanation. As you say, the biggest aspect of white privaledge is that you dont see it. The only way it will change is if more people become aware of it and act accordingly. So if you want things to change, then yes, its your job to explain it to people. You cant expect people who by definition dont know a thing exists to learn about it on their own.


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mechaPoet wrote:

He cites several examples of other gamers dismissing his concerns about race representation, and points out that the leadership and decision makers of the Con (and the people they choose to honor with awards, recognition, etc) are sorely lacking in the PoC department. This isn't racist in the KKK way or anything, but it is a symptom of PoC systematically being denied opportunities and voices in gaming culture.

I cant speak to his direct experiences obviously. But in terms of the con. If the overwhelming majority of gamers are white, and consequently the overwhelming majority of game writers/developers/artists are white, then the fact that the people being honored are mostly white is not a function of racism, but probability.

And this is the sort of argument that often gets people hackles up. Because of the idea that people who are not white must be forced into prominence or a given potision simply because they are currently absent. Gencon should honor people influencial in the gaming world. It shouldnt matter what the color of their skin is. When more people of color play games, more people of color will become influencial in the industry. That is the issue that needs addressing, not the choices Gencon made.

Quote:


Literally nowhere does he say GenCon is racist. He says there is a "Race Problem," and describes some ways in which he feels excluded. The thing about the Nazi cosplayer is definitely a weak example of this, but the article he links to about it also notes a booth that sells sexy Nazi pin-up art (which has problems on multiple fronts [dammit did I just make a WWII pun ugh]), which is disallowed by GenCon rules but the complaints seemingly went unheard. I think he also writes about things a little too generally, but he still provides specific instances of various gamers and gaming communities being an uncomfortable place for him as a PoC.

The thing about the Nazi pinup art and cosplayer is probably the biggest problem with the article. When you say things like 'It reminds me of the old south, then describe a community of people, then identify effectively 2 of 50,000 people there as racist, you have associated the entire group with racism. You cant bookend the description of a cultural event with the slave south, and nazis and then say you arent calling them racist. You are.

Quote:

But here's the real meat of the issue: it doesn't matter whether his article has "rational arguments" or is "too emotional." He identifies some things he didn't like and provides some suggestions of how to make GenCon more inclusive. He doesn't owe anyone a "logical" argument for inclusion. Part of white privilege is not seeing the discomfort of non-white groups who feel underrepresented in a given community. Having white privilege doesn't mean you're being evil and ignoring it, it means you literally don't see it. When George writes about feeling out of place at GenCon, the proper response shouldn't be, "Prove it!" There are a lot of people asking for more inclusion in the gaming community, and it's there if you look for it and listen to those voices. The burden of proof is not on George here.

When you publish something you open yourself to criticism. And whether you want to say it or not, he did call gencon, and the gaming community as a whole racist. If the article was about how to get more people of color into the hobby, Even Mr Correia agreed it was a good idea and he was on board. He even has the right to say he was uncomfortable, or felt underrepresented. He didnt do that though. He drew on imagry that is among the worst we can think of for racism in history.

He has the right to talk about how he felt, but he also is responsible for what he says and how he says it. And what he said, was insulting. Correia had a right to be insulted and to respond harshely to poorly chosen words that paint a community with a single thoughtless brush. Because that is the essence of prejudice.

I went to primarly african american schools growing up, I think there were 20 white kids in my entire Junior High of more then a thousand students. Most of my piers were african american, I'd say about 3/4ths of my teachers were african american. Most of those teachers and staff lived near my school, also a minority neighborhood.

Some African american students attempted at times to pick on me because I was white. I was at many times uncomfortable because I did not conform to the culture that prevaled at my school.

This is experience is very similar at least in a vaccume to George's Gencon experience. Do you think it would be reasonable for me to say it shows a race problem among the african american people of new york not being inclusive enough to white students? The idea is literally laughable. But the evidence is the same as what George gives. But it requires ignoring a whole host of other factors that are the primary cause of my discomfort and the absents of people I identify with in the community in question.

I can accept the idea of white privaledge, though I do think the idea of intersectionality is more accurate. I do however think one needs to consider the context of the situation before they write something like that article.


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Proper level is the same level as the party. In terms of wealth, if people can freely obtain the kinds of magic items they want, it should be the same wealth level as the party average. If the party generally only finds what they can, or is low wealth for their level, the gm should give items manually in line with what other players have, and then give an amount of gold to bring the player close to the party average.


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Kirth Gersen wrote:
It's kind of sad, because the 3.5e halfling hurler with a ring of blink and a sackful of acid flasks and alchemist's fire was long considered the benchmark of good class balance: he could hold his own in combat, he had plenty of skills outside of combat, he had reasonable defenses (slippery mind, etc.), and so on. Paizo nerfed his combat potential to near-zero, and now the rogue seems to mark the dividing line between PC classes and mundane NPC classes like the aristocrat.

I think the specificness of what was required to make the rogue good is sort of symptomatic of the problem dont you? In the end classes need to stand or fall on whats there in the class description. If a specific magic item, or very specific build is necessary, the class is probably just as problematic. I played 3.5 for its entire length. I never saw a ring of blink. I saw lots of rogues. Lots of halfling rogues. No rings of blink though.


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mechaPoet wrote:

All right, I'm back with the links I promised.

However, before I list them, I want to make it clear that I found these on the first page of a Google search for "explaining white privilege." I'm providing these because Kolokotroni showed an interest in having this conversation. I'm happy to provide some general information on what I mean when use the word privilege, but also keep in mind that you all could have looked this up yourselves. This isn't an admonishment in any way, just a note that people aren't always obliged to educate you just because you ask them to. Like I said, a lot of people have written about this, and I trust that all of you know how (at least on a basic level) to do internet (and other kinds of!) research.

(These are all largely, if not entirely, American-centric, just fyi)
From Tolerance.org: On Racism and White Privilege
-a general overview of what white privilege is
From OccupyWallStreet.net: Explaining White Privilege to a Broke White Person
From EverydayFeminism.com: How to Talk to Someone About Privilege Who Doesn't Know What That Is
-The two above talk about talking about privilege, and also explore the difference between various kinds of privilege
A comic about what white privilege is: Comic
-I've saved this one for last as it contains some mildly accusatory language, and if you can get through the first three and try to understand what (white) privilege is without feeling accused of anything, you can probably handle this one being 90% informative and 10% disappointed that people don't understand privilege

Definately interesting reads. I particularly think the concept of intersection is an important consideration. There is privaledge associated with things like gender, class, sexual orientation, citizenship, and ableness.

In particular since the word intersectionality probably has no connotation in any culture, if you start the conversation with something that needs explanation, its alot easier to get a positive response.

Quote:


P.S.: With regards to Correia's race: I do realize that Correia identifies as Latino. However:
-I saw the picture of him on his website. He's more or less white-passing, which is another form of privilege (the first article I link to specifically uses the phrase "white skin privilege" at one point, and that seems relevant). Which isn't to say that his opinions as a non-white don't count or something, but I still think he's a huge [redacted].
-I'm a little confused about how being Portuguese makes you Latino, but it's not something I feel remotely qualified to talk about, so I'm gonna leave it alone. I got the impression from Correia's article that he was equating the two, but it's not like there aren't both Portuguese white people and Portuguese PoC, so, again, dropping it.

Well there is slightly more to it then that. Obviously growing up in a portugese neighborhood is not the same as growing up in an african american neighborhood, but it still differs from a 'white' neighborhood.

Not all 'white' people are the same, or have the same amount of privaledge. And its more or less tied to their cultural identity.

I am greek. I grew up with a very strong cultural identity. I am the child of Immigrants. My family, my people, while ostensibly white, look different then the typical 'white' person, their culture, behavior, values, differ from the 'norm'. In some of the most important aspects of privaledge I still benefit. But in others I dont.

Other then my big fat greek wedding, there isnt much I can think of off the top of my head where i can turn on a tv or open a magazine and see my people.

And while the history books celebrate my classical heritage, they dont have a whole lot to say about it in the last thousand years. That and the fact that the English word used, is Greek, its 'Greco Roman' history. Its not the word we identify ourselves with (Hellenic), and was effectively assigned to Greeks by the romans after it's conquest.

Another interesting case is my brother. He is as you might imagine also, Greek. But he has a darker complexion then I have. I have to tan pretty heavily to appear to the casual observer as non-white, though it has happened. My brother, generally gets pulled aside by airport security every time he flies, tan or not.

Just to be clear, I am not somehow exempt from privaledge. I just think the blanket statement of white privaledge is pretty ignorant. There is more to the story then that. And simply calling it white privaledge is more divisive then it needs to be.

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