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Angvar Thestlecrit

Kolokotroni's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. 8,738 posts (8,766 including aliases). 17 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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Jiggy wrote:
Dang, the coolest recurring spawn I've found anywhere is Magmar in Como Park. I'm about to hit 15th level and I still haven't even evolved a Venonat or Metapod. :/

My best is the huge number of abras spawning in city hall park. Have an alakazam and am nearly half way to a second.


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RainyDayNinja wrote:
I went for a run yesterday, and I wanted to put some miles on my eggs, but the app kept freezing up on me, and I don't think it registered half of what I ran. Has anyone had this issue while running? Or could it have just been spotty servers at the time?

Could have been a couple things.

1. Server issues.
2. Don't use the 'battery saver' move. Its buggy as hell and has a habbit of freezing the game.
3. Your best bet is to actually hold it with the app open while running. Or use some kind of mount/strap that will allow an app open without accidentally pressing things.


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Turin the Mad wrote:

I'm 4 levels behind Missus Turin. Not too worried about trying to keep up with her save that it amuses me to keep her going strong. She's already blown through her initial allotment of poke-coins while I'm sitting on 2950 coins.

If a modest monthly expenditure helps keep her walking on an almost-daily basis, I'm solidly for it.

I'd be in trouble if there was a near-identical zombie survival based version of the same game... ;)

Well there is zombie run....


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You guys know the legendaries are going to be event based right?


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Turin the Mad wrote:
NYC hosts the first person to complete the "North American Pokedex". Of the 151 Pokemon, 3 are continental-based (unobtainable) and 6 no one has yet to see or catch that is known. My guess is that so far no one has hit 40th level (or whatever it is) to cross the threshold for getting ahold of Mew or MewTwo. Guy hit 31st level, captured over 4200 critters, hatched just over 300 eggs and clocked 150+ km doing so.

Well clearly that person put the time and effort in.

I am 24th level, walked 110km, caught 1710 pokemon, and currently have my pokedex at 104 caught so far. I guess if I was in high school or college I could have put in a little more time. As an adult it isn't really likely I could have matched that insane performance.


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Jiggy wrote:
Sissyl wrote:
I would say Dragonites don't come from eggs. They are evolved pokemon, y'know?
He probably meant that most Dragonites were being evolved from Dratinis that were hatched from 10k eggs.

This is in fact what I meant

Caineach wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Caineach wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Caineach wrote:
Yeah, at this point almost every gym I see is using eevee evolves. At my desk I catch maybe 5-10 a day. I've found a half-dozen or so places that eevee is almost always there, and myself am sporting 10 CP 1K+ eevee evolves.

Interesting, they are good at taking gyms, not so much at holding them. Most of the gyms around here are held by exeggutors, snorlax, gyrados, or dragonnites. With the occasional seemingly comical but actually kind of clever chanseys (low cp but crazy high hp)

I have yet to see a single one of anything you named. Once again, I think we are seeing the huge disparity in how this game is playing out in major metro areas vs elsewhere.

Really? Interesting. I guess things will shape up differently in different areas. Where I work Gyrarado are sort of easy to achieve with a little time (took me a little over a week for my first on with just lunch break walks along the water). But basically no eevees. I am sure availability matters, though I think most dragonites, and snorlax are coming out of 10k eggs.

Also player density. If 1 in 20 players is level 20+, then NYC will have thousands of players that high while I will be one of a few dozen in my area.

That being said, pretty much everyone here has eevee evolves as their strongest pokemon. They are more common than caterpie. Aside from an unusually strong pidgeon and random Magmar, of the 12 pokemon I have over 1K CP, 10 are eevee.

I spent a day trying to find magicarp and caught like 2, walking along the Hudson shoreline.

I wonder how skewed the player levels are. Obviously until Niantic makes some changes (which they said they are working on at the moment) being in an urban center will level you much faster. Even Casual players are over 15 for the most part unless they just picked up the game around here.


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Caineach wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Caineach wrote:
Yeah, at this point almost every gym I see is using eevee evolves. At my desk I catch maybe 5-10 a day. I've found a half-dozen or so places that eevee is almost always there, and myself am sporting 10 CP 1K+ eevee evolves.

Interesting, they are good at taking gyms, not so much at holding them. Most of the gyms around here are held by exeggutors, snorlax, gyrados, or dragonnites. With the occasional seemingly comical but actually kind of clever chanseys (low cp but crazy high hp)

I have yet to see a single one of anything you named. Once again, I think we are seeing the huge disparity in how this game is playing out in major metro areas vs elsewhere.

Really? Interesting. I guess things will shape up differently in different areas. Where I work Gyrarado are sort of easy to achieve with a little time (took me a little over a week for my first on with just lunch break walks along the water). But basically no eevees. I am sure availability matters, though I think most dragonites, and snorlax are coming out of 10k eggs.


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Jiggy wrote:
So, nobody's going to actually share the reference materials? Not so much as a "Google [searchterm]", let alone a link?

Apologies, I meant to post the link, I just got distracted at work, the one elcaleeb posted is the one I was referring to.


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Caineach wrote:
Yeah, at this point almost every gym I see is using eevee evolves. At my desk I catch maybe 5-10 a day. I've found a half-dozen or so places that eevee is almost always there, and myself am sporting 10 CP 1K+ eevee evolves.

Interesting, they are good at taking gyms, not so much at holding them. Most of the gyms around here are held by exeggutors, snorlax, gyrados, or dragonnites. With the occasional seemingly comical but actually kind of clever chanseys (low cp but crazy high hp)

Also, Sara you should do what a friend of mines daughter did, she set up a refreshment shop since a sign just outside their yard was a popular pokestop. Industrious little Tike that one.


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thegreenteagamer wrote:
To be honest, I'm so burned out by this election, I just want it to be over. I do care about who wins, but not nearly as much as I just want this crapfest to be over for another four years.

I wish it was 4 years, the American election cycle is also rather insane. Aside from the fact that we have elections every 2 years, the presidential election nonsense starts way too early also.


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Scott Betts wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Any system that could allow someone to win with somewhere like 22% of the vote while their opponent gets 88% of the vote (and yes this can happen, even if it is unlikely)
Somehow I doubt that...
Win the smallest states by exactly one vote from Wyoming to New Jersey. Its less then 25% of the voting population but more then half the electoral votes.
I was referencing your 110% popular vote total. ;P

Yea sorry, the point is still valid even if my arithmetic was comically bad


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Scott Betts wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Any system that could allow someone to win with somewhere like 22% of the vote while their opponent gets 88% of the vote (and yes this can happen, even if it is unlikely)
Somehow I doubt that...

Win the smallest states by exactly one vote from Wyoming to New Jersey. Its less then 25% of the voting population but more then half the electoral votes.

Edit Also I meant 78%, apologies, long day at work.


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Orfamay Quest wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:


Its not really a matter of which ideas any one person thinks are 'good'. Its about getting representation. There obviously people who are super left or super right.

So you can only be represented by someone who has the exact same views as you?

That's unworkable. There are only so many seats in Parliament. There are only so many candidates running for that seat. Unless you yourself are running, none of them will match your ideals perfectly. You are then afforded the opportunity to choose among several imperfect options -- one of the factors that makes a candidate imperfect is that she doesn't match your view on all points, but another factor might be that she is an unelectable fruitbat who wouldn't win if she were running unopposed. You are not only allowed, but encouraged, to take both of those factors into account.

... or you can wait until a perfect candidate can both run and win more than an extremely marginal share of the vote.

Bring a LONG book if you choose the second option.

Obviously perfect representation is unlikely. But satisfactory representation is not. And while there only so many seats in a parlimant or the US house of representatives, there is certainly room for more then 2 ideaologies. And that is what we get in a pure first past the post system. Its worst in the US but its effects can be felt elsewhere too. A liberatarian voting in the US is a relatively concrete set of views, but he or she will basically never get solid representation because they have to share their party with economic conservatives, Evangelical Christians and Tea Partiers. And at least in recent years both parties have more or less walked in lock step because of how polarized they are.

Right now, 'Extremely Marginal' can equate to millions of people. Because each District, or constituency or whatever you want to call the local area of voters that picks a representative sends one and only one representative to the legislature, that means that most of the time, 40-50% of the population wont be represented by their 'local' representative. Literally Millions of voters in the US (and elsewhere) get their votes overridden by the local majority (or sometimes the largest minority) on a regular basis. That's not acceptable in a democratic system. And that is exclusively the fault of the voting system we have in place.

And don't get me started on the US presidential election system. Any system that could allow someone to win with somewhere like 22% of the vote while their opponent gets 88% of the vote (and yes this can happen, even if it is unlikely) is literally insane.


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Matrix Dragon wrote:
Wait, Eevee is a 10k egg pokemon? I am *flooded* with eevee around my house. I have 8 of them evolved, so I was assuming they were a low tier pokemon that was oddly powerful, lol.

No They are rare. There are however fixed locations that tend to spawn one kind of pokemon that could be rare. So that must be what's near your house. For example the museum of natural history in new York is a charmander spawn point, but aside from there I think I have encountered 1 charmander in the wild.


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Matrix Dragon wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
He is referring to the 'tier' list of which pokemon get the most cp per power up. But its already abundantly clear that cp alone doenst determine power. But snorlax, lapras, gyrarados and edeggutor sitting at the not of the power chart makes a lot of sense in the context of the original 150. That and charizard, blastoise, and venosaur are very nearly top tier in cp with way better attacks. So it actually does fit the source material of red and blue. The starters while powerful when fully evolved were not the end all be all.
I have no problem with most of the pokemon on the top of the tier list. Arcanine and Vaporeon are the only ones that seem weird to me, lol.

Arcanine is a rarish pokemon that requires a special item to evolve. Its even been reffered to in the anime as legendary (even though it isn't actually legendary). Also in the anime, I remember one episode where an Arcanine wrecks one of ashes Water Type pokemon (something a fire pokemon should have trouble with). Another episode didnt it keep up with flying pokemone in a race? I seem to remember it being rather badass back in the day. Its not really out of place at the top of the heap.

I don't remember much about the evee trio, but its obvious the game is playing them up pretty hard, (all 3 are pretty solid at or near the top of their energy heap) with an evee being among the 10k egg possibilities, it seems justified at least within go. Not sure about in the original source material.

Caineach wrote:
from what I can tell, attacks have stats that you can't see. Most notably, attack speed, which affects how quickly you can mash the button. I haven't done any experimentation though.

There are clearly a number of stats hidden in the attacks. Attack speed and attak power are clearly not the same for all quick and charge attacks. Plus the type of attack matters heavily when dealing with specific pokemon.


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He is referring to the 'tier' list of which pokemon get the most cp per power up. But its already abundantly clear that cp alone doenst determine power. But snorlax, lapras, gyrarados and edeggutor sitting at the not of the power chart makes a lot of sense in the context of the original 150. That and charizard, blastoise, and venosaur are very nearly top tier in cp with way better attacks. So it actually does fit the source material of red and blue. The starters while powerful when fully evolved were not the end all be all.


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The concept of maneuvers (even if you don't love the specific implementation) from paths of war/tome of battle is the answer here. You wouldn't even need to remove full attacks from the equation, you just need to add a viable alternative.

Maneuvers have all the right elements: They are standard actions, they offer a variety of effects and impacts besides simply MOAR DAMAGW, choosing one is not a huge investment of character resources (akin to a sorcerer picking a spell known) and they are usable resources so they can be balanced again other finite resource abilities in the game.


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Caineach wrote:
Sundakan wrote:

On the flipside, I have three people in my household, most of which are usually playing it simultaneously. If I catch something, or someone else does, they tell me where it is, and I can still go get it.

Usually the CP is different (hilariously, despite my brother's level being higher, I usually get the higher CP 'Mon), but the same type.

This has been my experience. I caught a magmar at the park, then told my brother and 2 other people they had to go down the hill a little to see it, and they were all able to catch it.

Yea as far as I can tell, the spawns are for everyone. When I have played with friends (or a random crowd) multiple people have been able to catch the rare spawns at the same location. The only issue is a difference in level. That affects which spawns you see.

As an addendum to the discussion on maintaining a small number of your pokemon, I have come to experience something new. Because as you level it takes significantly more xp to get to the next level but the tasks don't start granting any more xp, the space between levels is much larger as you get higher. This means that you get much more stardust as you level unless you take serious pains to do lucky egg tricks (save 50 evolution or have all your eggs right on the edge of hatching, pop a lucky egg then do all of it at once). And even then it still takes doing more stuff.

This means that as you get higher level it becomes far more manageable to keep a set of your pokemon near the top of their CP scale for your level as you level up. I now have 7 pokemon that I can keep maxed out by powering them up and don't have to evolve replacements for and I am still a ways off my next level (once you reach max cp you cant power it up again until you level). So I think once you get into the mid 20's in level it will be relatively simple (so long as you keep a candy supply) to keep whatever your dream team of 6-8 pokemon is at peak performance for your level and not have to constantly catch or evolve replacements. You will need to keep catching more pokemon of the same type to keep your supply up, but that should just come as a consequence of playing in the same places you caught them initially.


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Squeakmaan wrote:

For example I didn't vote in the Primary for one simple reason, I was perfectly happy to vote for either Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton. Each had ideas I supported and ideas I didn't, but overwhelmingly agreed with both.

I have a slightly different angle on why I think 3rd parties do poorly here, while the structural reasons others have mentioned are certainly the case, it also seems to be the case that 3rd parties tend to be freaking nuts. Any good ideas the Libertarian party has are already supported by one of the major parties, all that's left is the crazy nonsense (the Fair Tax Plan for example, both unfair and terrible). Same is true for the Green party. Simply put, 3rd parties are by necessity more extreme in order to be able to carve out a niche for themselves.

Its not really a matter of which ideas any one person thinks are 'good'. Its about getting representation. There obviously people who are super left or super right. They should be their own parties so they can get representation of their ideals. Rather then have a more moderate party be coopted in order to attempt to gain as much support as possible. I mean just look at all the presidential canditates who claimed to be 'republican' this primary cycle. There was like 5 parties worth of views in there. But because we can only ever have 2 parties, there is this absurb mish mash in both parties, but at the moment especially in the conservative party in the US.


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:

Yeah Jiggy - that plus the lackluster battle system are the reasons that I haven't started playing. If they ever fix those things, I may pick it up.

Basically - it sounds like an interesting exploration game with the pokémon stuff tacked on for flavor/nostalgia.

A more robust battle system including direct player v player and turn based traditional pokemon battles are apparently in the list of key updates along with trading. So it will be there eventually. When is hard to say.


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Jiggy wrote:
Good to hear. If I finally caught my 100 Magikarp and got a Gyarados and he only stayed relevant for a weekend, I'd be pretty pissed.

Im level 23 now, I have been able to keep 3 powered up with my stardust, a snorlax a gyarados and Exeggutor. They need to start near the top of your power curve and you basically put all your stardust into a couple.

That said I definitely think we don't get enough stardust. Particularly for higher levels.


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Misroi wrote:
Or both, actually.

I forget the name of it but a hacker group claimed credit for ddosing pokemone go on Saturday. I am sure the roll out didn't help. But for instance their roll out to the UK was (relatively) smooth. It was problably mostly the attack that caused the issues. I expect Niantic is probably not used to this kind of publicity, and thus this much risk of doughbags going after them.


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Matrix Dragon wrote:
My body has finally started rebelling against the sudden onset of this stuff called exercise, lol. I'm pretty sure I have gotten more exercise during the last week than during my last four years combined.

Glad to hear you are getting out and getting moving. In perfect honesty that is the best thing about this game, and I sort of hope it becomes a trend in mobile games. We have this magic device in our pockets. Might as well have it be entertaining and have a positive impact in our lives.


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CrystalSeas wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
And people need to understand that.

The most effective way to get people to understand is not to lecture and preach.

What is effective is to start running for local township and city councils. To elect candidates to the school board, to elect like]minded people to the county commission.

At the local level, people are much more likely to ignore party labels and to vote for the person they've met and talked with, even worked with on community projects and charity organizations.

Once you've got a bunch of like-minded people in office at the local level, they can then build up to the state and national level seats based on their ideas and effectiveness in actually making a difference at the local level.

Posting comments on an international forum is not going to effect change. If you can't run yourself, find someone who will and manage their campaign for them. But the only way you're going to get a 3rd party on the national ballot is to have that party have plenty of support precinct by precinct at the local level

Yes you will need support at the local level, but all the support in the world will be meaningless if you don't change the voting at the national level. That literally has to happen first. Or your third party will be born, grow a little and eventually die. All the local groundswell in the world wont change the fact that Bernie HAS to try to get his supporters to support Hilary even if in reality he and his following is a 3rd party when compared to the 'mainstream' democratic party.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
The truth of the matter is 3rd parties will never work unless we change our voting system. The raw mathematics of first past the post voting makes 3rd parties a non-starter. That isn't because people are ignorant or because they are lazy, its because our actual system that we use to elect executive and representatives is fundamentally bad, and by its very nature drives us to 2 parties. Its possible one party will be replaced with another, but you ultimately will only ever have 2.
That would require constitutional amendments , made by the same people you're trying to get more competition for. You want 75% of people to vote themselves out of office. That's not going to happen.

I am aware of the difficulty in accomplishing this. But it is at least POSSIBLE. Growing a 3rd party without changing the system is IMPOSSIBLE. As an example, prohibition was not popular among the majority of actual legislators. But it was popular enough to put sufficient pressure on them to get the votes to happen. It didn't last sure, but it is actually possible. Particularly if it received bitpartisan support from the populace. Again its not likely, but its the only possible route for real change. And people need to understand that.


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thejeff wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:

What option is there then, if you refuse to hold your nose and pick one?

Maybe we have a 3rd party, and they siphon enough votes from each person that no one gets enough electoral votes to win? Would we get a do-over at that point? Or would the one with the majority of electoral votes still win?

Worse than either. In no candidate wins an actual majority of the electoral college, the election is decided by the House.

It doesn't matter, there's no practical way a third party can at this point actually siphon enough electoral votes to matter. Such a candidate would have to actually be winning states and doing so significantly from both sides.

Oh they can matter, the thing is they wont matter the way anyone voting for them will want. They are really unlikely to win any states, but they are extremely likely to LOSE any of the swing states. So for instance, if Bernie had broken off to create a 'progressive' party or what have you, and he pulled his supporters to this new party, EVERY swing state and probably a handful of solidly 'blue' states would split their vote, and the actually electoral votes (for president) or congress seats would go to the conservative party instead.

He knows this. Everyone knows this. That's why he is supporting Hillary despite the fact that anyone who can read a face or body language knows he didn't want to. Because baring some pretty specific examples, "Bernie Supporters" (whatever you would call a party of that portion of the electorate) would much rather democrats in power then republicans both in the white house and in capital hill. So with our current system of voting, a vote FOR the party they want can accomplish only one thing, put the people they least want in power into power. This is called the spoiler effect and its why we wont ever have 3 or more real parties.


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The issue isn't what people want, its that any 3rd party would inevitably be a fracture of either the democratic or republican parties. There are disenfranchised voters on both sides, but they are still in general leaning either liberal or conservative.

A liberal 3rd party would give power to the conservative side of the aisle, a conservative 3rd party would do the reverse. Even most 'independants' lean one way or the other. And most recognize this problem. And even if they didn't, it would take at most one or 2 election cycles to realize that trying to grow a 3rd party would be catastrophic to your actual goals.

There are better systems out there. Including instant runoff voting (which at the very least removed the spoiler effect where voting for a 3rd party actually hurts your desired outcomes) or mixed member proportional where you actually acknowledge political parties are a thing and account for them in your voting system.

That has to change first. There will never be any success with 3rd parties until that happens. Mathematically the only thing a 3rd party can do is hurt the interests of the people supporting it at the moment.

Simple example, lets say the libertarian candidate gains steam, lets say the party puts on a fantastic campaign and even gets into the running in senate and house seats. Well MOST of the people who would vote for them would have otherwise voted republican (if they bothered to show up, and actually most libertarians are quite politically active so I'd say this is a lot of them). Well, guess what that will do? It will pull votes for president, and for congress away from the republicans, likely handing both to the democrats. Most voters know this, or they will learn it basically instantly. So they don't vote third party, because for the republicans are better then the democrats. (this is an example and not meant to disparage any particular view).

My point is simply that with the voting system we have, the most that can happen is to replace one big party with another. But overwhelmingly, what you will get is one large conservative party and one large liberal party. And they will be forced to try to encompase everything from their 'side' and fail. So anyone whose views don't line up neatly with one of the big 2 parties will have poor representation. There is literally no other potential outcome until we change the voting system.


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Sissyl wrote:
Fire stations, apparently.

Is there any evidence for this? The only reliable charmander spawn anyone has found so far in the nycpokego reddit is at the museum of natural history, with the apparent explanation that charmander likes checking out the dinosaur exhibits...


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The truth of the matter is 3rd parties will never work unless we change our voting system. The raw mathematics of first past the post voting makes 3rd parties a non-starter. That isn't because people are ignorant or because they are lazy, its because our actual system that we use to elect executive and representatives is fundamentally bad, and by its very nature drives us to 2 parties. Its possible one party will be replaced with another, but you ultimately will only ever have 2.


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Jiggy wrote:
Cripes, I didn't even know the CPs went that high. O_O

The max cp for each pokmeon goes up as you level, my snorlax is over 2k and I am level 22.

I saw a 2500cp dragonite defending a gym on my way into work, don't know the players level (dragonite I believe has the highest cp cap of all pokemon)


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Jiggy wrote:
Rysky wrote:
I just ran out of pokeballs -_-

Hit as many PokeStops as you can. Spinning the little circle that you see when you tap a PokeStop within range will cause it to spit out items (mostly pokeballs, especially at low levels) and turn purple. In about 5 minutes, it will turn blue again and you can repeat the process. If you can find a place where you can walk in a 5-10min circle while hitting multiple PokeStops, you can hit them all with each lap and really rack up the items.

Also, you get fresh batches of pokeballs every time you level up, so gaining XP is important. You get a little XP each time you hit a PokeStop, thus the above is doubly important. You also get XP for catching pokemon, so if you're close to leveling, spending what few pokeballs you have left on a couple of easy 'Mon that you can probably catch in one try will likely be a good move. Also, when you're low on pokeballs, prioritize the catching of new pokemon over ones that you've caught before; there's a big first-time-catch XP bonus that will help you level up faster to get more pokeballs.

Hope that helps!

If you can find a route that is about 5 minutes to walk that is dense with pokestops that is ideal. Poke stops reset every 5 minutes, so if theres a loop around a park, or a block of streets that takes about 5 minutes to walk and has several pokestops you can stack up on items and xp. Also don't be afraid to toss healing items you don't need. You can get full up fast on potion and revives if you are not constantly battling gyms which takes up pokeball space in your item bag.


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Caineach wrote:
Ssyvan wrote:
Does anyone know the purpose of throwing a curve ball? I can do it pretty reliably now, but I only rarely get the curveball bonus (which is the same as a Nice bonus).
Supposedly it has an increase in capture rate, but I don't actually know if that is true.

It was confirmed by Niantic to be true, and it also gives additional experience on a successful catch.


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Caineach wrote:
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree Kolokotroni. I think the lack of meat and emotional attachment will give this game a very short lifespan in the general public and then a significantly smaller dedicated fanbase limited to specific types of players. The only places that will maintain critical mass will be major metro areas and tourist locations, with small pockets of players in mostly an equilibrium outside of that. I think you will start to lose critical mass as early as the end the month in the majority of the country.

Do you somehow think the game will be a failure if it only maintains critical mass in major cities, and tourist locations? (I have heard tell of similar events happening at for instance Disney from a friend in Orlando)

How many players are required to stick around in order for this to be a success in your eyes? And do you not think there is a sufficient pool of potential players in said locations?


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Caineach wrote:
It may change my mind if I ever see a gym with more than 3 pokemon, but right now I find gyms to be incredibly dull. Mash 1 button as fast as you can, then hold it down. Hope the servers allow you to resolve the fight (well over than half the time the 1HP bug happens to me) and the GPS doesn't randomly move you out of the radius (particularly bad for the nearest gym to me at work. I beginning to think they may intentionally screw up location services on campus).

The gym outside my office was held by my snorlax and 6 other valor pokemon yesterday, was under siege for more then 6 hours until around 7pm when I guess most people went home. We kept it until about 6am the next morning. Went up and down between level 10 and as low as level 3 for a while until I went home around 7.


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Caineach wrote:
No I'm not, and I think you and I have a different idea of fun. I don't particularly find button mashing 1 button fun. This social aspect is only happening in notable places and extreme population centers. I have yet to see more than 3 people ever "crowded around a gym", even in the metropolitan areas near me (where I see dozens of people walking finding pokemon). Not to mention, that will fade when people start asking the question "what's the point" and looking for an answer besides bragging rights. This game basically has everything needed for a fad, with none of the things needed to sustain the community. Lets hope that it will last long enough for them to bring the game out of the effectively beta state it is in now while they still have a community.

The gym outside my office has literally been fought over for days. I have seen dozens of gyms with multiple people crowding around to fight for it. I have also seen multiple meetups with hundreds of attendees for this weekend to get together and play the game around my city. Including 2 focused on taking gyms in a given area. I think you underestimate the value of bragging rights for some. No one is asking whats the point. They are just having fun doing the thing the game gives them.

And I do certainly hope they continue to add features, perhaps it is just a thing that works in certain areas, but getting out and doing a joint activity out in the world with other people is shockingly appealing to new Yorkers, and from the looks of it quite a few other cities around the world.

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You and I have very different ideas of exciting. I think this makes it repetitive and boring. There is no excitement in the 300 pidgey, and when I catch a nidoran, instead of getting excited, I think "great, only 20 more to go", or "eh, I need so many I can skip this one and it wont really matter". I have already lost all the attachment I had to that first Jolteon I evolved, since within 2 days she is now obsolete. In the base game you wander around with a team and level up that team. The repetitive trash gave you a reward for your existing pokemon, allowing you to build an investment in those pokemon. They have basically managed to kill any emotional attachment you have to your pokemon. I mean, we are talking about source material that encourage people to transfer their pokemon through generations. My buddy recently traded some pokemon to our friends kid that were half again as old as the kid, and he was telling stories about them. So far, aside from bragging rights about how much playtime you get to have, this game doesn't have any real meat to invest you in anything. Its playing off group nostalgia to get people together, but without the social interaction there is no meat to the game.

Just because it is different then your expectation doesn't make it bad. You may say it doesn't matter, however I just caught my 101st magikarp to evolve my Gyarados and I was deliriously excited. Its a matter of perspective. Yes its a departure from the games source material, that doesn't make it bad. Just different.

And the social interaction IS the meet of the game. You cant just dismiss the thing that is the core of the experience and say, well without that there isn't anything there.

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My point here was that if they actually had a compotent game designer these questions would have been asked early and the problems identified early in the design stage. Asking how players interact with your game is question 1 in formal game design. The fact that so many simple questions seem to have been missed makes me wonder if anyone involved has actually studied the art of fun. There is a reason game design is now a college major at major schools.

They do have competent designers, just in a different kind of game then you apparently like. They have had ingress running for years with millions of active users worldwide. It was no where as successful as go has been so far but it has lasted the test of time on very similar mechanics. It currently has more depth but that comes over time.

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They better do it soon. I don't see this game really lasting more than a few weeks before sharp declines in user base.

Certainly time will tell. I don't think it will stay the most used application in existence forever, but I think it has legs to go for a long time with just a few relatively minor tweaks.


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Sara Marie wrote:

Initially I had thought I would just ignore gyms. However, I found as an item hoarder who cannot just trash/delete items, I quickly reached the point where my inventory was full of healing potions and I had to use some in order to store more pokeballs. The only reason to use healing potions is if you've been doing gym battles and so I started. I find it quite fun learning all the strategy involved. Looking at the team you're going to fight, figuring out which of your pokemon will do best against it and seeing if you can win. I also enjoy the animations of the special powers.

And its got me going out for walks and runs again which in turn makes me feel less stressed and happier. Win/Win!

This is probably the biggest positive effect, people are actually getting out and moving around. I have been literally stunned with how my mood has changed, I am excited to get up for work in the morning. I cant remember the last time I got ready and out the door so quickly happy to be on my way to work.


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Caineach wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Caineach wrote:
...some of the terrible mechanics in this.
Like what? I'm not too far into the game yet (only just hit 6th level, haven't tried a gym), but so far I haven't run into anything and thought "Wow, that's dumb". My only complaints so far have been the bugginess (the app freezes sometimes, etc) and that there's a lot of the game that you have to figure out for yourself because they don't tell you how it works. But for the actual mechanics themselves, I haven't noticed anything really bad. What parts are you not liking?

They thought really hard about tactical level decisions but not enough about strategic level ones.

The game didn't know what it wants to be or how players would interact with it. It is set up as a territory control game like Ingress, but instead people want it to be an exploration game. The 2 aspects of the game only interact in 1 direction, with the exploration feeding into the territory control. But...

There is literally 0 point in controlling a gym besides bragging rights. Sure, you can collect the daily bonus for having a gym, but that amounts to 10 cents per gym and less incense than if you spent that time getting pokemon. If you try to get more than 3 gyms, by the time you get to the 4th you are probably going to be kicked of at least 1 of the previous ones, because it is fairly trivial for 1 person to take down a gym in less time than it takes you to travel to a new gym and take it. Instead, you can pay $1 and get about the same reward as you would get for a week of controlling gyms. They seem to consider gyms to be the end goal, but the rewards for it is lackluster and once people realize it that aspect will greatly fade to only a small group of people who particularly like that aspect of the game.

You are missing the part where fighting over gyms is fun. Its likely gyms will have bigger impact in time, in particular controlling a gym will allow you to trade with fellow members within a certain radius, and also it will likely matter for events. But the fact remains people are having fun crowding around monuments and other public locations shouting and generally having fun fighting over gyms. Is there more Niantic should add? Absolutely. But you don't need massive in game rewards if the activity itself is fun. Granted I wouldn't be unhappy if the rewards were improved, and I am sure they will be. For now Niantic is just figuring out their business model as it is a strong diversion from typical freemium games.

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The basic mechanics cause you to treat all your pokemon as disposable. In the JRPGs, you could level up your early pokemon and they would be relevant for you throughout the game. Your starter could realistically be in your end game team. Here, you starter is more or less worthless, since in order to level him up you need to find dozens of identical ones that will be innately better because they will have a higher starting level. This game encourages you to treat all of your pokemon as completely disposable, since you will always find better ones later.

This is certainly a big departure from the source material, but once you get used to it, why is this an issue? It makes new catches exciting, and in and of itself keeps the game fresh. Catching your 30th pidgey can yield a far better pidgey/pidgeot then you already had. If you only needed one of each pokemon the base mechanic of the game (wandering around catching pokemon) would lose its value almost immediately.

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The rural-urban disparity makes me think that no one involved in making or beta-testing actually lived in suburbia, let alone a rural area. There are all kinds of simple metrics that they could have set up if their beta group was large enough: how far do you travel to find a pokemon, how long between player interaction with the game (pokemon, gym, pokestop), how quickly you leveled based on region. All trivial metrics for them to measure that they clearly didn't pay attention to before launch.

They are already working on the rural urban issue, and many rural areas have had added pokestops and better spawns. Its very likely you are right and few of their beta testers are in urban areas. But I don't see how this is a mechanics problem. Its maybe leaving a part of their market under served. But since the game is literally all about collecting lots of people into public spaces playing a cell phone game, its not crazy that they focused on places with lots of people and lots of cell phones (Read:Cities).

In terms of strategic decisions, they focused their testing on the areas that were most conducive to the games success and popularity that would bring in a massive user base almost instantly and create a lot of publicity (Thousands of people playing together in Manhattan or in Melbourne Australia make for attention grabbing headlines).

Again, I certainly am glad they are putting effort into improving the game for rural players, but focusing on cities (where communities of players have already formed and have the best critical mass for the base game mechanics) is hardly a bad strategic choice.

Obviously its possible this could end up a fad. But I personally don't think it will take a ton of work to keep it going. All they have to do is have events periodically, add in trading, add more pokemon over time and eventually allow direct player battles(all of which are in the plan).


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Turin the Mad wrote:
20th? 30th? Damn, Missus Turin and I have just hit 7th level.

Keep it up you will get there.


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why they decided to change how pokémon battles work? I understand why catching pokémon doesn't involve a battle due to the nature of the game. But why did they make gym battles into a swiping game instead of the standard Gameboy style gameplay?
If I had to guess, because the events will be real time, and classic turn based pokemon combat wouldn't work for that. If you look at that first commercial, everyone collected in times square to fight mewtwo, they had 30 minutes to take him down. Frantic swipe and screen presses fits that way better.

While I can see your point about a true turn-based system, it wouldn't have been hard to shoehorn in the rather standard old-school JRPG style ATB (Active Time Battle) into a standard Pokémon battle system. (When the bar fills that character goes again.)

The only things which would be changed much are the moves which change the priority order, but those are a rather small % of them, and some of them wouldn't be hard to tweak to work with ATB.

Pokemon moves priority order

That works well for solo games, but when you have a plan for literally thousands of people to be involved in a battle during events, and potentially dozens attacking a gym at once, I expect it could be harder to code then you think and I expect they just wanted to keep that part as simple as possible. That and I Niantic doesn't make JRPGs. That was never their goal here. Why would they put so much effort into something that is secondary to their game? The primary focus, and the thing that has made this the best grossing and most use mobile app in existence in less than a week is the act of going out into the world, finding stops, pokemon and meeting up with people doing the same thing. If that behavior was netting you literally millions of dollars a day and is a runaway success, why would you put time and energy into a more intricate battle system?


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powerdemon wrote:
blashimov wrote:

If I may ask, why go archery with druid and dragon disciple?? Both of those things involve turning into some kind of monster with claws. I second the hunter suggestion if the nature focus, archery, and animal companion are big deals.

My character is the Dragon Disciple. Hers is the druid//paladin.

Those feats are definitely on the list. Why do you recommend skipping precise shot?

The animal companion isn't the focus for her. She wants to try druid, and thinks it sounds interesting (I'm glad she's branching out).

The thing is, druids don't make very good archers. Hunters do. A druid as an archer is going to either clash with or work against a lot of the druids abilities and spells. Druids are either caster heavy or focused on melee combat. Archery just doesn't fit them.


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Jiggy wrote:
Caineach wrote:
The blue bars indicate how often they can be used. The more bars, the less time it takes to power 1 charge up and the more charges you can have. More bars also tends to be less powerful.

How does this relate to moves that have no blue bars at all?

Also, what does the number to the right of each move mean?

If it has no bar it can be done over and over (usually the first attack)

I believe the number is related to the attacks power but I am not certain yet.


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know why they decided to change how pokémon battles work? I understand why catching pokémon doesn't involve a battle due to the nature of the game. But why did they make gym battles into a swiping game instead of the standard Gameboy style gameplay?

If I had to guess, because the events will be real time, and classic turn based pokemon combat wouldn't work for that. If you look at that first commercial, everyone collected in times square to fight mewtwo, they had 30 minutes to take him down. Frantic swipe and screen presses fits that way better.


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Caineach wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

Okay, let's talk moves.

So I figured the only use of duplicate pokemon is to trade in all but one to get candy to evolve that one. So at first I was going to start just looking at which one had the highest CP and trade in all the rest. But then I noticed that some of them had different moves, and I wondered if I should be accounting for that. Does it matter what moves a pokemon has prior to being evolved, or will the moves just get started fresh upon evolution anyway? How much should I care?

Also, how do I read the moves? There's a number on the right for each of them, and some of them have 2-4 blue bars next to them. What does all that mean?

From what I can tell, a pokemon gets completely different moves when evolved and I have found no connection yet between what they had in prior forms and what they get. I am by no means crunching numbers on this though. Personally, I don't care at all yet.

The blue bars indicate how often they can be used. The more bars, the less time it takes to power 1 charge up and the more charges you can have. More bars also tends to be less powerful.

Having more than 1 powerful pokemon of a single type allows you to put 1 in a gym and still have a backup for battle. Your not likely to have many of the rare guys that soon, but pigeons and rats are common and effective.

So moves definitely matter. Different move types will hit different pokemon types differentely. You pokemons type matters defensively but offensively its the move type. So a water pokemon with a poison attack

In terms of moves sticking around for evolutions, it depends on the pokemon. Psyduck/golduck for instance maintain their moves between evolutions. And they have a wide range of attack types.

But even when it changes there is a correlation with the moves of the evolved pokemon.

There are lots of reasons to have multiple high level pokemon that are duplicates when dealing with gyms. In addition to having extras for defending, when attacking, if say there are a bunch of water pokemon defending a gym by a river, I can go in with 6 top level electrics and rip through them even if I lose my first pokemon cutting through the early opponents..


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Jiggy wrote:

So, all in all, it's sounding like I need to be really aggressive in catching as many pokemon as I can, rather than being "picky" like I was back when I was playing Red/Blue twenty years ago. Seems that evolving any given pokemon is going to require catching and "selling" one or two dozen of the exact same kind, so I need to grind like crazy if I ever want, say, a Pidgeot or a Hypno. Plus, catching more pokemon (even if I already have duplicates) is the fastest way to level up, which seems to be important.

So basically, catchCATCHCATCH is the name of the game. Am I understanding this right?

You are correct, catch everything you can. No one should be picky unless they are almost out of pokeballs and then they should be moving heaven and earth (well mostly themselves) to get more. Weak pokemon give you candy to evolve/power up better pokemon. And they are easier to catch. I am grinding out magikarps at the moment (you need 400 candy). I get excited when I see a 10cp magikarp.

Plus, there are the achievements that rely on numbers.


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Caineach wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
13. PAY ATTENTION TO WHERE YOU ARE GOING. Don't walk into traffic or wander into a gated community. Stay out of private property, poke stops should only be on public property. If there is one that is on private property, report it with the bug link in the app. Alsp be as alert as you normally would going out into the world. If going out at night make reasonable judgement calls about safety. Traveling in groups is not only fun, its also a good idea to avoid issues that can pop up when traveling through parks and other secluded locations at night.
My work has 8 pokestops and 3 gyms on private property. No way I'm reporting it.

Private property you are permitted access to is fine. For instance there are a series of poke stops in fort hood. If you are allowed in fort hood go for it. If you are not, but but pokemon is not an excuse whne you are arrested :P


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Jiggy wrote:

Just found out that two of my brothers are Team Instinct. Having not reached level 5 yet, I haven't picked, and I'm now torn between joining them and betraying them.

Is there any actual difference between the teams, whether mechanics-wise or identity-wise?

There are already definite identities forming for the 3 teams. In terms of rules, it is likely that during events it will matter, but for the moment the only difference is who helps your gyms and who attacks them. You can get coins for free every 21 hours for defending gyms. You get xp for attacking gyms.


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1. Better pokeballs are unlocked as you level up, I get great balls and ultra balls from pokestops at level 21.

2. Character level is king. You want to focus on leveling your character not your pokemon. Just leveling your character will give you better pokemon and more rare/uncommon pokemon.

3. Learn to throw the curve ball. It gives more xp, and has a better chance of catching the target.

4. Don't power up your first bunch of pokemon. Save the candy for evolutions and as you get multiple copies drop your weaker ones with transfers for extra candy (keep an eye on the attacks though those vary and you might want different types of attacks when you start going after gyms).

5. Disney is LOADED with poke stops and gyms. Its comparable to the best locations in manhattan, which since the game bases pokestops off cultural locations and landmarks and spawns off of cell traffic density you can imagine is friggan high.

6. Focus on Poke stops. You will find pokemon around the stops. The stops give you items. Items let you keep playing longer.

7. Find a dense 5-10 minute pokestop loop. Pokestops reset every 5 minutes or so. If you find a dense loop that takes 5-10 minutes to walk you can get a ton of poke stops (and xp) quickly.

8. Save your evolutions for when you have lucky eggs running. You will get some lucky eggs just from leveling up. Use one before you do evolutions and do them in groups to maximize xp gain.

9. Put your 2km eggs in your infinite egg incubator and your 5 or 10km eggs in limited use ones. You want to get the most out of each incubator that is limited use. Put the longer duration eggs in there when the option presents itself.

10. Work on hatching your eggs. Eggs give you really good shots at great pokemon and significantly more candy then catching one gives you. And you can only hold 9 at a time. So get walking (or slowly biking) and get your eggs hatched to make room for more.

11. Bring water, Sunscreen, comfortable shoes, more water, some granola bars (or other transportable non-heavy snacks), and maybe a first aid kit. This is an outdoor activity, be reasonably prepared.

12. If taking a pet for a walk, pay attention to them, its summer in many places the game released. Make sure they are well watered and keep an eye on them.

13. PAY ATTENTION TO WHERE YOU ARE GOING. Don't walk into traffic or wander into a gated community. Stay out of private property, poke stops should only be on public property. If there is one that is on private property, report it with the bug link in the app. Alsp be as alert as you normally would going out into the world. If going out at night make reasonable judgement calls about safety. Traveling in groups is not only fun, its also a good idea to avoid issues that can pop up when traveling through parks and other secluded locations at night.

14. Be respectful of other pokemon trainers. Its dead obvious who else is out there playing. Super obvious. That does not inherently give you the right to someone elses time or space. If they are looking around for others and giving signals they are looking to socialize say hi. If they are not, consider leaving them alone. We don't need the game to turn into a tool/excuse for harassment. Also, though team rivalry is all in good fun, remember its just a game. If someone takes your gym, take it back that's it.

15. Did I mention pay attention to where you are walking?

16. Cars will struggle to hatch eggs. The apparent limit is about 12mph for registering the distance (this can vary slightly depending on how good/bad your phones gps is). Go faster then that and eggs wont hatch and pokemon spawn less frequently (has to do with how the game determines your location). Even a moderate pace on a bike can go faster then that. Keep that in mind when choosing modes of travel. Foot is best, but a bike can also work if you take it slow.

Edit:

17. Don't ignore friendly controlled gyms. Parking your own pokemon to defend them (Maybe after leveling it to get a new spot there) can get you gold every 21 hours. Training at a friendly gym increases its prestige which makes it harder to take away. Also gives descent xp.

18. You don't have to hold a gym long, just long enough. If there are a couple gyms close by, grab them then go to the shop and claim your reward. You can only claim it once every 21 hours. So you don't need to be holding your gym all the time to reap the rewards. But if you take a gym after you have already taking the rewards from the shop you have to wait until the 21 hour timer finishes. Time this well if possible.


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powerdemon wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:

Well first off, a druids companion in barding armor is quite effectively tanky. In cthe case of the druid herself, there are serveral ways to make it more tanky, but it depends on the character. If you are trying to keep to the feel of an existing character, would need to know more about it to accomplish that one.

Just to be clear though, she isn't playing the same character in both games right? That seems like it would be an issue if they are progressing in different ways.

She will be using a similar build, not the same character. She is an Oracle 1/Paladin 5//Sorcerer 6 in the other campaign. She will replace Sorcerer with Druid this time.

She wants to be ranged, so she will likely use a longbow most of the time. She is a nature lover in real life and will reflect that in this character. She plans to mainly use the bow and support with spells. I meant to ask for ways to tank out her animal companion (I made her animal companion in a previous AP and it has a higher AC than the rest of the party, so I'm not too worried, but I love advice. It was a Roc.). It and my character will be up front while she stays in the back and rains down hell. Perhaps her animal companion and I could take a teamwork feat or two?

What about using the hunter in place of the druid if she wants to be archery focused. Still the nature theme, but more things that can work with archery specifically, and you can take the teamwork feats like coordinated shot or wounded paw gambit?

In terms of the animal companion, its hard to go wrong with a big cat in the best barding you can afford (it can take the armor feats). They can literally have some of the best front line ACs in the game, particularly if you use the buffs available to the hunter.


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Christopher Anthony wrote:
The help site indicates that Pokemon can be found near their habitats. So, lakes, rivers, streams for Water types, etc.. Your team doesn't have an effect on what you can find, but trainer level seems to play a role. I've seen steadily better Pokemon as I've gained levels.

There are also specific locations that have a higher likelihood of spawning certain kinds of pokemon. For instance, there are a ton of Abras In city hall park in Manhattan. If such a location is where you normally play you could easily rack up a lot of an uncommon pokemon.


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powerdemon wrote:

Thank you all very much for the advice. I've read everything that you have posted here and weighed my options.

I agree that Gestalt is the way to go, and will be going that way :).

My wife has only played one other time and really likes that character, so we are re-making and tweaking that one.

She would not do well running 2 characters at once, and I agree that it would take the spotlight off of her too much. Plus she wouldn't role play with herself.

I have a lot of experience with Gestalting, and my other game is a 2 person game (my wife and a friend of ours) who are gestalt and going through Council of Thieves. They have had 0 trouble so far and are almost done with book 2.

She will have an animal companion from Druid (any tips on making it tanky would be appreciated), and will have Oracle/Paladin on the other side for healing and ranged combat. I will be doing Magus 20//Unchained Rogue 4/Sorcerrer 1/Dragon Disciple 8-10/Unchained Rogue 5-8.

Well first off, a druids companion in barding armor is quite effectively tanky. In cthe case of the druid herself, there are serveral ways to make it more tanky, but it depends on the character. If you are trying to keep to the feel of an existing character, would need to know more about it to accomplish that one.

Just to be clear though, she isn't playing the same character in both games right? That seems like it would be an issue if they are progressing in different ways.

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