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Hello everybody,
again, when rules are unclear, I require your wise help. The question is relatively easy:

What happens if an attacking creature bull rushes a defending creature and the defender cannot move back (let's say has a wall behind)? In the 3.0 rules I vaguely remember that the defending creature falls prone, but I wasn't able to find anything supporting this in 3.5

The same question may be applied to the first tactical maneuver granted by the Sun School feat from the Complete Warrior.

Thank you for your cooperation


When I first read the AP, I thought to introduce the Stormblades as a competing adventuring party and that's what I did at the beginning. The PCs immediately happened to be jealous of their achievements, expecially at the end of Flood Season when the Stormblades recovered more wands than the PCs were able to and therefore they were acclaimed as the "Cauldron's Savers" during the following festival, casting a shadow over PCs accomplishments.

Then the Stormblades disappeared over the three subsequent instalments (Zenith's Trajectory, Demonskar Legacy and of course Test of the Smoking Eyes), busy in some not too well defined mission.

When they reappeared on the scene, it was when the PCs found Todd's body in the Wee Jas temple. The PCs brought Todd's body back to the Vanderborens.

After listening to Thifirane's speech in Lords of Oblivion instalment, the PCs came to a conclusion about the Cagewrights and the Shackleborns. Among the latter they included Todd Vanderboren with the following reasoning:
"The Vanderborens were in league with the Cagewrights and agreed to sacrifice their son (when the time would have been the right one) to obtain more power over the region. However, when the Stormblades were attacked and Todd died, the Vanderborens, struck by the loss of their son, felt guilty and turned to the Wee Jas temple to have him protected from being raised (that's why it wasn't yet raised)."

At the beginning of Foundation of Flame, the PCs were still thinking Todd to be a Shackleborn and they disliked the Stormblades in general. During the Urban Avalanche, however, one of the players was buried and only thanks to the Stormblades immediate rescue, he was able to survive.

Again, the Stormblades proved better than the PCs in evacuating the city, so the two parts are far from friendship, but they now feel a distant respect one toward the other.

But Hookface is coming...

Taking in account the Cauldron gp limit, the distance Cauldron-Sasserine and the effective free time the PCs have during the whole AP, here follows the method I used to have PCs sell their loot:
for goods up to 500 gp value, I give 1% daily chance that someone may be interested (either the local shops, merchants or traveling merchants)
for items from 500 to 3,000 gp value, I give 1% weekly chance (most local nobles or traveling merchants)
for items over 3,000 gp value, I give 1% monthly chance (local nobles, travel merchants or disguised agents either from the Last Laugh and the Cagewrights)
When the PCs get too much armors and weapons, I had the City Guard (backed by Vhalantru and the Cagewright cash) make an offer (40% value) for the entire stock.

If you don't allow the PCs to reach Sasserine too much times (only once in my campaign), this method works. If you use the Book of Exalted Deeds, the Ancestral Relic Feat may be worth the sacrifice of the unused items (however the process takes too much time compared to the AP purposes)

My two cents...

Here follows the speculation I made about the existance of the Kopru Ruins below Cauldron. Purposefully, I chose to not work out a timeline.

I thought to a sad story to bind to that particular place. (Obviously my players didn't even suspect for a single moment to be in kopru ruins...).

Let's start with consideration: Kopru should live in salt water, while this particular site in a sweet water place, an exception to the rule... So, this discrepancy led me to build the story.

Perhaps, here begins the tale, some of the kopru realized earlier than others of their kind that their race was doomed to an unstoppable decline. The matriarchs strongly opposed any speculation brought before them, thus the race quickly started its fall.
Some of the koprus worked in the shadow and agreed to try for what they considered their last chance of survival. They knew that only a bunch of them would have been successful in the task.
With that knowledge in mind, they eventually started a long land journey from the sea to the only place they found worth of their effort: a lake, that despite being a sweet water one, had the biological condition to afford the koprus able to reach it, a decent chance of survival.
The journey was a massacre. Koprus started losing members day after day. Their slowness on firm ground made the perfect prey for the predators living in that savage area. Helpless, one after the other, they fell to the jaws of the wilderness. At the end, as it was foretold, only a few of them got the lava tubes and the subterranean lake (at that time there was no suspended cage and the waters were higher enough to let them dive safely in what is today the crevice).
However, some of them never accustomed themselves to the sweet water and their biology started changing. Their offsprings were born more with amphibian traits and they were not so helpless outside water. This mutation enabled them to even realize buildings on firm ground.

While the rest of the koprus were dying, they prospered, and created the small dwelling that later will become the base of the Ebon Triad.

But nothing is forever... and eventually their time came. Once they finished what is now the Kopru Ruins under Cauldron, they lost their motivation in surviving, they felt safe. Soon after, perhaps starting from the following generation, they started the degenerative process already experienced by the rest of their race.
They become ever more decrepit and their chaotic and evil nature led the strongest to kill the weakest in a desperate effort to put a stop to the degenerative process. This was not enough, as many of the subsequent generation were stillborn. Their number grew ever more low and when the last of them remained, it was the one who showed the necessary combination of willpower, luck and motivation needed to survive. That lone exemplar still lives today. For some mysterious reason, he does not age anymore (he is aware of this and tends to hide) and lives comfortably in sweet water (unknown to it also in salt water) as well as on firm ground.
Should another kopru with that characteristic exist somewhere in the world and should they encounter and mate, the race of the koprus could rise again...

Of course, there are a lot of biological mistakes (try to put a salt water fish in sweet water...) and perhaps the timeline could not be worked properly as the Cauldron region seems to be subjected to earthquakes that could have changed the subterranean tunnels in time. However, I hope someone could find this helpful...

I definately like your work.
For the soulcage creation and the kopru ruins I tried to give this interpretation (or misinterpretation if I was wrong):
- the Ebon Triad are not the soulcage creators. They were simply given it in order to ensure its protection. The cage was indeed worked by someone with a talent for crafting cage-things (like Dugobras the Fire Giant). That particular cage creation was made somewhere else and brought to the ruins for refining. That would explain the cage debris found in the large room (don't have the modules at hand, I just remember a forge-like room where a nasty creature was).
- for what regards the kopru ruins I'm writing/replying a thread

To tell the truth, the Cagewrights involvement in the guild ranks is only an assumption.
To support the idea I tried to put myself in the Cagewright shoes: in my opinion, when a such powerful group - as the Cagewrights are - decides to establish themselves in a place, they will be prone to put some of their members or faithful cohorts, in three key places:
- the first is the one that grants political control over the location (cohort Vhalantru in this case, even if not a proper Cagewright, took control over the City Guard and the city by killing Lord Mayor Severen Navalant and posing as a "Mayor in absentia"),
- the second is the one that grants temporal control over the people beliefs (Embril Aloustinai, boy this was a real nasty move!) in order to assure them that all is going well despite appearances,
- the third is the one that may grant a continuous flow of information, like a guild network. That's one of the motives that brought me to work out the CCG (Cagewright Controlled Guild). Another point was that reading at the full path, once the Wee Jas temple was stormed, the Cagewrights would have needed to smoke their enemies' eyes through some kind of distractions (like the jester coinage or worst).
Then it depends on the plan to fulfill, hoe it is going and at some point, one of the three may not be so crucial to get the result. Like it happens in Cauldron (not a large city and in a rather isolated area), controlling a guild is more a distraction than a real source of information.
However, this may vary from campaign to campaign...

I allowed only once my party to go to Sasserine for item shopping (strongly limiting the items availability as I consider magic shopping unfair). As a result I have a wealthy party with a lot of low magic items. Gold piece more, gold piece less, they are all near the suggested wealth in DMG.
But they comply every single day...

Hello everybody,
here follows a short summary of my Last Laugh organization. I tried to follow the guidelines I found here and there in the AP. Hope it will be helpful:

LAST LAUGH (Guild Organization)

Jester Guildmaster
At the moment, Guildmaster Allan Agel Alames (CE unknown race and power) runs the guild. Thanks to his cunning mind, he was chosen by the Cagewrights to run "their" guild. Speculations say he is a Kelvezu demon (MMII) bound for one year and one day to the Cagewrights will, but none has been or is able to give a proof of his identity. More rumors associated to the first report of a pact forged in exchange of a Phylactery of Change crafted by the Cagewrights.
The former Guildmistress, Ester Sidel, was “destituted” by the same Cagewrights.

Below the Guildmaster there are four Jesters plus one more individual, each one charged with running a particular branch of the guild:

Assassination Division
Leader: Jester Velior Thazo
Second in Command: Jil
Agenda: their whereabouts are detailed in Lord of Oblivion.

Forgery Division:
Leader: Jester Julian Nunn (NE, Human Male Rogue 5th/Assassin 5th/Spymaster 7th)
Second in Command: Kahell Kormill (NE, Human Male, Wiz 15th)
Agenda/Background: former adventurer, Julian managed to secure a great amount of resources and thus was chosen by the Cagewrights to run the Forgery Division. This part of the guild is specialized in forging documents of all kind. With the help of a mage from the obscure past, Kahell Kormyll, the Forgery Division is able to even create “Delusion Scrolls”. The Weer’s Elixirs in Cauldron is effectively under their control, after Wortimax Weer accepted a “gentlemen agreement” worked out by the Extortion Division (see below) to exclusively sell stuff from their warehouses. Their safe houses are located in Ash Avenue (the two black buildings just below the “Ash” entry in the Cauldron Map from Lords of Oblivion);

Extortion Division
Leader: Jester Wadrax (NE, Half-elf Male Rogue 7th/Fighter 2nd/Assassin 6th)
Second in Command: Alpen Knott (NE, Half-orc male, Fighter 13th)
Agenda/Background: Wadrax, a rogue from the warring Ulek lands, is in charge of the Extortion Division. Through the Last Laugh vast network, this branch was able to secure funds to fulfill the Cagewrights plans. Currently, about half of the Cauldronites shop owners pay a protection fee to the Last Laugh. Warrax bears an horrible scar across his left hand, when he was left hanging for two days with a dagger thrust in it (wrong time in wrong place during his early career). They have no know safe house;

Minting Division
Leader: Jester Francis Benidor (LE, Human Male Ari 2nd/ Rogue 13th)
Second in Command: Rhant Tarragona (NE, Human Male, Ari 7th)
Agenda/Background: belonging to the Cauldron nobility, Francis Benidor, a minor noble, is known for his greed. It was an idea of him to mint the jester coins, an idea that led him to be appointed to jester status by the Cagewrights. He is charged with running the Coinage Branch. Since his second in command, Rhant Tarragona (Lords of Oblivion), got arrested, he hides in his fortified estate between Lava and Magma Avenue (south of Cauldron, octagonal building near Ghelve’s Locks), planning to leave the city as soon as possible;

Slavers Division
Leader: Valkin Kennar Ilhar Malraedior (CE, Drow Male, Rogue 5th/Sorcerer 10th)
Second in Command: Thandor Lox (CE Human Vampire Male, former Paladin of Pelor, now a Blackguard, details unknown)
Agenda/Background: the dark elf is responsible of the Slavers Division. He refused the Jester appellative, considering it degrading of his status. Thus, the Cagewrights and Allan Agel Alames see him more like a resource to be used rather than an effective affiliate.
Valin Kennar may be found in a large cavern located in the Underdark, one day hike from the Malachite Fortress, where he is the main guilty of the slave trade that afflicts Cauldron and environments. Pyllrak the durzagon (Life’s Bazaar) is one of the slavers under his payroll. In the cave, he is building a subterranean fortress for the Cagewrights (perhaps for a backup plan of their) exploiting to death the slaves he does not sell away. When the slave trade is exposed in Cauldron, the fortress construction slows down and when the earthquakes stir Cauldron (Foundation of Flame), a part of it collapses, compelling the drow to push the slave abductions to the highest recruit ever. When this occurs, slaves are taken from nearby lands and possibly someone investigates. Thrandor Lox, his second in command, has one desire: to see the Pelor's Shrine in Cauldron forever destroyed.

Affiliated Organization:
Slave Traders (mostly from the Hold of the Sea Princes, although Pomarj are also interested)
Merchants (varies)
Spy Network (already active in Keoland and Yeomanry, developing in other countries)
Assassin Guilds (Hold of the Sea Princes and Principality of Ulek)
Various Smiths (most of them Dwarves and Fire Giants)

Thank you Slaad for your advice.
I agree that option 2 is the closest to the rules as I think the option 3 you suggest should work while gaming. Being all over 30, I'm quite sure that myself and my players will be able to work out a reasonable solution.

Hello everybody,
I'm an italian D&D player since 1986, but I'm facing something that is becoming a real problem between me (trying to balance the game)and my players (trying to unbalance the game). As you have read from the subject, I'm requiring assistance to deal with the contradiction (my opinion) regarding the casting of Sheltered Vitality (Libris Mortis, the spell conferes immunity to ability damage and drain "regardless of the source") when a sanctified spell expires. Among the components of many sanctified spells there is the Sacrifice that normally consists in ability damage or drain.
Now, I bring two examples of play and in both we suppose to have a caster with Sheltered Vitality in effect when the sanctified spell expires:
1 - Hammer of Righteousness (Instantaneous) and Sheltered Vitality: Being the sacrifice required to power the spell, does the Sheltered Vitality prevent the spell from being cast or just nullfies the sacrifice?
2 - Luminous armor (1 hour/level) and Sheltered Vitality: The spell manifests at the moment of casting, but the sacrifice occurs hours later, so the spell is effectively used. Reading the rules, Sheltered Vitality prevents the damage from occurring, but being the sacrifice required to power the spell, the damage should however occur (again, my opinion).
So comes the real questions: which rule has to be applied? Does anybody know if there will be an errata regarding the Book of Exalted Deeds?
Many thanks in advance,
Cristiano a.k.a. Klysandral

P.S. Same difficult with Energy Vortex/Protection from Energy

Currently we have a small party (three or four players) that experienced some change during the course of the AP:

At the beginning we had a:
- Human Male Paladin of Heironeous (died in the travel to Cauldron);
- Aasimar Male Cleric of Heironeous who decided to retire in meditation at the end of the Soul Pillars adventure (he was 14th level) because he was somehow tainted by the evil in the place, thus losing the benevolence of Heironeous. He is now a NPC living and waiting to receive an Atonement in the Spire of Glory (Chendl, Furyondy);
- Human Male Monk who took the Vow of Poverty. Currently he is 13th level. During the course of the adventure he was raised twice.

The Paladin was first substituted by a Barbarian/Champion of Kord (was Gwynharwyf) sent by the Temple of Might in Cauldron. He fell victim to the three hags in Demonskar's Legacy. Thrown in the Starry Mirror without equipment, he luckily managed to escape after 5 days wandering in the Mirror. He was able to reach Cauldron, but Vhalantru turned him to stone placing the new statue in one of the halls of its estate.

Viewing his champion lost, Asfelkir Hranleurth sent the "Kordian" (Favored Soul of Kord, new PG in substitution of the Champion) to rescue him. The Kordian failed and fled back to Cauldron where he actually stays as an NPC (no Omar Tiskinsen in my campaign).

After the Kordian, we had a half-celestial Samurai 6th who joined the group in the Occipitus. The H-C has got the Smoking Eye Template. When in Cauldron, he hides most of the times and when in public, he uses a large cloak to hide his wings and an eyepatch to cover the flaming orbit. He is seen in Cauldron as a sort of Notre Dame hunchback.

After the turn-over, at the beginning of the Soul Pillars installment we started with a fourth player and the party was thus made of:
- Human Male Monk 13th (Vow of Poverty)
- Aasimar Male Cleric of Heironeous 13th
- Half-Celestial Male Samurai 6th/ Kensai 1st
- Human Male Sorcerer 1st/ Fighter 4th/ Green Star Adept 7th

The last player is now on quest to find the Starmetal needed to gain the new level, so he will not be part of the beginning of the Lords of Oblivion we start playing tonight.

Here follows the actual party:
- Human Male Monk 13th (Vow of Poverty)
- Human Male Cleric of Heironeous 13th (who replaces the Aasimar and comes to Cauldron sent by the Heironean church to find the compassion he lost during earlier adventures)
- Half-Celestial Male Samurai 6th/ Kensai 2nd

Hello again,
during the last session I played with my group, the party experienced their first total defeat against Fetor Abradius. They failed most of the Saving Throws against the double lightning bolt thrown at them. The only survived party member was peppered almost to death by the double Magic Missile just before he was able to cast a Word of Recall spell.

Last time I wrote, I had a death in the Occipitus layer thanks to the Abyssal Basilisk. Now we're playing the Soul Pillars and the party had very hard times against the assassins. Only a lucky stunning fist scored by the monk prevented the party death. The cleric cohort, however died in the attack.
During the party counterattack on the Wee Jas Temple (Grand Hall), they had very harsh moments. The monk went -6 (and stabilized) and saved against the Death Knell from Calmus Vel. This time the cleric multiple flame strikes and a Heal spell on the monk saved the three from death before they were able to flee.
After the retreat, they contacted Meerthan that happily (coins, coins, coins) allowed Fario and Fellian to join the party. Tonight they want to storm the temple again...

Hello everybody!
First of all, Please let me wish you all a Merry Christmas! What I read in the forum has been of great help during the course of the Adventure Path I'm currently running.

Tomorrow we have a new gaming session and the party will face Ike Iverson after a though battle against the minions in the Great Hall.

I won't be short...

The party is currently leaded by a 12th aasimar male cleric of Heironeous with access to Sanctified spells (from Book of Exalted Deeds) and with the Purify Spell feat. The character, despite his great wisdom, lacks in intelligence and often his tactics in battle are not the best ever seen in the Flanaess.

So comes the first request for help:
During the encounter against the Zombie Gray Renders the cleric could easily cast an Hammer of Righteousness targeting one of the Grey Render Zombies.

Reading the entries in the Undead Type (Monster Manual Glossary) it says:
- Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effects also works on object or is harmless)

Hammer of Righteousness is a Force Effect and requires a Fortitude save, however the damage dealt is Positive Energy.

Then the question is: does the spell cause damage to undead creatures?


The second help I need is related to the Purify Spell feat (again from Book of Exalted Deeds). At the cost of one spell slot, this feat grants the Good descriptor to a spell and increases the die damage by one step when the spell is aimed at evil outsiders.

So comes the second question: can the Purify Spell be applied to a spell that already has the Good descriptor? If so, can the increased damage be applied to a spell that already deals increased damage to an evil creature?

I try to clarify this point making an example of what may happen: the above mentioned cleric casts a Purified Hammer of Righteousness against the Bone Devil (evil outsider), succeding in the Spell Resistance check. The Osyluth fails his Saving Throw. The damage dealt by the Hammer would be 12d8 (instead of 12d6, because the Bone Devil is an evil creature). Applying the Purify Spell feat, the damage would become an incredible 24d6 damage (instead of 12d8, because the Bone Devil is an evil outsider) suffered by the astonished (and probably agonizing) Osyluth.

Or perhaps I am missing something...

Thanks again,
Cristiano a.k.a. Klysandral

P.S. Please forgive all the errors you may find, but I'm not mother tongue...

Hello everybody, Xmas is approaching, we're all nicer and players try to use this subtle excuse to get something more from their DMs (at least my group does so ;-)).
The point is this: can the Purify Spell feat (adds the Good descriptor to a spell and increases damage vs. evil) from the Book of Exalted Deeds be applied to the Hammer of Righteousness spell (already has the Good descriptor and damage increase vs. evil) from the same source?
I think that could become an unbalancing spell...

Thanks for your cooperation,

Cristiano a.k.a. Klysandral

When I picture in my mind the right time and place to cast the spell and scene that may follow, Exalted Fury (Book of Exalted Deeds) is worth the price!
However, never without Detect spells...

Hello again,

I have to record a new death during the Test of the Smoking Eye (Plain of Cysts): one of the character has been petrified by the Greater Abyssal Basilisk. As the party has no means to change him back to the fleshy form, I had to introduce a new character: a half-celestial (for Kaurophon's joy) roaming the plane in search of Saureya and almost fallen to a fibrous tendricolous in the forest. Now the party is just at the beginning of the peristaltic tube and since the h-c arrival, Kaurophon fell strangely silent...

We're playing the Test of Smoking Eye installment and so far we had the following results:
Life's Bazaar - No deaths, though many times characters were close to die (I had to add some extra arms, Fario Ellegoth and Fellian Shard, to give players a decent chance of surviving). Pyllrak fled to Underdark.

Flood Season - One dying (Tongueater and the baboons were a bit tough for the party). One death at the hands (better to say flail) of Tarkilar. Skaven, Triel and Tongueater fled to safety.

Zenith's Trajectory - One death fighting the cryohydra. One death during the crossing of the lake: character drowned thanks to Aabach that rolled the boat upside-down and to the heavy armor. Also the treasure was lost. One almost death during the combat in Blibdoolpoolp grat hall. Aushanna survived.

Demonskar Legacy - One character almost smashed flat by Dugobras' warhammer. Great defeat battling the hags (understimated): one character was devoured by the hags (we had to roll a new character), the remaining two were thrown into the Starry Mirror without the hegemonic plate. However, sheer luck was on their side while fighting Nabthathoron the Glabrezu (they emerged about five days later).

Test of the Smoking Eye - Just finished the first Test. Without Kaurophon and his Cone of Cold, they would have been doomed against the summoned Fire Elemental and the Salamander. One level lost to the Succubus. They are on their way to the Plain of Cysts, next sunday we play...

Berandor wrote:
IMC, clerics feel a spiritual need to pray when it is time. That would be the same on Occipitus.

Thank you Berandor... I felt like a novice reading at your reply!

Hello everybody,
straight to the point I'm facing some trouble with Clerics in Occipitus. Despite the fact that the Manual of the Planes states a "Normal" in the Magic entry for Abyss, the layer itself has no standard daily cycle: the bursting plasms make the sky red in color all the time, so, for clerics that pray to get spells during specific hours or times of the day (dawn, dusk, noon, midnight, etc.), this may represent a problem.
In my party there is a cleric worshipping Heironeous (Greyhawk Campaign), so he is strongly motivated to bring the layer back to Celestia (where Heironeous is). However, before running the adventure, we assumed that the cleric had to pray during early morning to get spells from the deity.
I tried to justify the daily cycle with the presence of animals and creatures (fiendish of course) like buffalos and centaurs that must have a biological cycle (eat, sleep, etc.), so that there is a course of the day also in Occipitus, but I'm not able to exactly define when the cleric should pray, i.e. when we may say it's early morning. Just after waking up seems too "easy". Any suggestion?

Thanks in advance,


Hello Mark,

- I'm not mother tongue, so I apologize for the mistakes you'll find in the reply -

Today, I'm DMing the Test of The Smoking Eye installment with a group of three players.

CHAR CREATION - I'm quite against the point buy method, because inexperienced players may be tempted to create a standard character for what regards ability scores. Better have them roll dice (4d6 discarding the lowest may suite) and hear at their complaints when a poor result shows up. I think a +5 global bonus may be balanced (for example 16, 15, 12, 11, 10, 9). Hit points should work.

REST - It may depend on the party composition to be hosted, perhaps, by the local churches (Cuthbert, Pelor or Kord) in exchange for a small tithe. I don't have the Dungeon Mag at hand, but if I remember in Life's Bazaar should be presented the Tipped Tankard Inn and The Drunken Morkoth Inn. The first will surely have a common room and some uncomfortable rooms, while the second is surely good level.

PARTY BALANCE - Again, it may depend on a series of factors. Templates (if any), races (standard or wondrous - lack of better terms), rule sources other than PHB, DMG and MM. On the whole, after my players died and died and died again, a sturdy combatant, a church man, a rogue style and an arcane caster. My players are an aasimar Cleric of Heironeus, an Exalted Monk and a truly variable third character (was a Paladin and died - Tongueater -, took a Barbarian/Champion of Gwynharwyf and died - eaten by the hags -, now I don't want to tell what he created with his twisted mind - but has high chances to die again -)

Hope this will help.


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