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Kayerloth's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,264 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Short of the oft mentioned Celestial Armor my next and much more frequent choice for my highly dexterous characters were Bracers of Armor. They are seemingly never mentioned which makes me curious why so in PF vs 3.5 and earlier editions.


Q: How does one finish off Aquatic Trolls in a underwater environment (no air pockets etc.)?
A: Drag them into a Rope Trick (and hope your GM doesn't smoke you out with questions about ventilation or water leaking in etc.).

I wouldn't consider it particularly game changing (any more than magic in general is) nor have I experienced any issues (from either side of the screen) with parties using it as an overnight camping sight. Things like it sealing access to all other extradimensional spaces, the lack of any alternate way out and hence becoming trapped tend to put a damper on things.

Curious what do folks believe the DC is to spot the window/portal?
20 + spell level
40 + spell level
other


Depending on the GM/campaign the descriptor "sonic" may also make Silence (and perhaps Deafness) an effective counter to some aspects of the spell. The argument for this being why mention the banishment aspect takes place regardless if the creature can hear the blasphemy or not (implying the other effects only occur if heard).


Holy Word - no limit on the number of targets. How large is the ship?
Sunburst - very large AoE
Fire Storm - large shapeable area, more than enough damage to take out a tiefling horde
Wall of Thorns - large shapeable area, unless the tieflings are well buffed the Wall will kill them.

Disintegrate - don't know what the ship is made of but very little isn't pierced by a Disintegrate and a 10'x10' square hole in ones ship is problematic. At minimum it'll give you an idea of what sort of magic the foes have and start them expending it to keep their 'fleet' intact.

Warp Wood - a druid at your level could cast this a gazillion times, just how often can they patch their ship up? ... unless, of course, it isn't made of wood (or is simply too big to make this effective).

If the tieflings turn out to be better than the average tiefling at swimming Control Weather might make it sufficiently difficult ... or even swamp or cause the ship to founder.

Control Weather, Control Water and/or Control Winds - you have a Druid this ought to be right up his alley.

Illusion magic to make them drop anchor further from shore or even in the wrong place (Screen, Hallucinatory Terrain, Mirage Arcana)


Greater Spell Immunity or staying more than 40 ft from the caster (or keeping them away, i.e. Repulsion or similar) could also be effective.


Sit probably as long as you aren't moving ... I'd probably allow this.
Ditto for lying down.

I'd pretty much let you treat the air as if it were solid ground.

But it is not flying, and I probably not let you move any more effectively through the air in the lotus position than I would if you were sitting on the actual ground and trying to scoot along on your behind.

RAW I've no idea big grey/GM's decision area.


And just to point out the obvious the target of Raise Dead is "dead creature touched" and I couldn't find it in a brief search attempt I believe I've seen a target listed a "living creature" as well.


My City of Heroes Empathy "Offender" is getting a severe case of deja vu reading this thread :D


My Self wrote:

<snip>

Kayerloth wrote:
The other thing about healing in most D&D fantasy campaigns is you (and your foes) are just as effective when at 100% hp as you are when at 1 hp. There is no benefit to reducing the hp of your foes (typically) until they are at 0 or less which in turn increases the value of doing damage over healing it. And this also points to the value of a 'healing' character being not so much in hp recovery but in condition removal.
But what if you could preemptively stop the condition? Not that condition removal is bad, it's amazing in a pinch, but what if you could remove the guy applying the conditions? Consider that most Cleric condition removal spells come at the same spell level or higher than the condition you're trying to remove, and most require a caster level check and a standard action. Unless it's your smiting archer paladin who just got Hold Person'ed, casting Remove Paralysis is probably less effective than chopping up whoever cast this on him. It's more effective to swim out of a current than to try to swim against it.

Absolutely, it's better to prevent than cure is undoubtedly true. My point would be more that conditions are generally a greater threat than any single hp injury owing to the fact that one functions just fine at 1 hp but your health is irrelevant (short of unconscious/dying) if you're paralyzed (or stunned or nauseated etc.). On the other hand that also makes your condition inflicting foe, for instance, a greater threat than a creature that is merely doing hp damage, so quite right and clobber the heck out of them pronto.


The other thing about healing in most D&D fantasy campaigns is you (and your foes) are just as effective when at 100% hp as you are when at 1 hp. There is no benefit to reducing the hp of your foes (typically) until they are at 0 or less which in turn increases the value of doing damage over healing it. And this also points to the value of a 'healing' character being not so much in hp recovery but in condition removal.


For my Loremaster (in 3.5) it was useful. In part this was because the party had no divine caster or healing capability so it enabled him to use curative wands, staffs and other items (including things like Restoration, Raise Dead etc.). It helps that an awful lot of the usages are flat, non-scaling DC checks as well.


DM_Blake wrote:
Kayerloth wrote:
I personally tended to use See Invisibility (later with Permanency) and then when I saw something invisible light it up with Glitterdust so now the whole party can see them.

How would you know it's invisible if you simply see it? Wouldn't it look the same as everything else that you see?

Just kidding. The spell says they look different; it's just a funny thought...

LOL For about a half second I was wondering why that thought hadn't ever occurred to our gaming group ... then Duh.


I'll point out (rushes off to check if they still exist within PF as my knowledge is per 3.5, comes back having double checked) that the Amulet of the Planes, Cubic Gate and Well of Many Worlds are or create portals to other dimensions and are quite mobile though none is created via Create Demiplane.

And ninja'd by Claxon more or less.

Power and balance wise the real issue for a GM is that the other 'end' of the magic items (vs a demiplane created with a Gate/portal) is pretty much random location not a fixed making it's portability less problematic. Still it basically comes down to the level of characters and overall power level of the campaign and how the GM envisions how the planes and demiplanes interact. It would be much less of an issue for me personally if the characters were near 20th and/or Epic/Mythic and accessing their personal demiplane was still also possible via other methods which could or might get used by other foes/rivals.

I'd have to agree that in general the RAW doesn't seem to support a portal fixed to readily man portable item, but I would agree to something more along the lines Diego mentioned up thread. A large carpet, wagon or ship might be mobile yet still doable as one end of the gate without serious issues.


Depending on how much you trust your fellow characters there's always we lure the beastie away while the others slip in rob them blind or stake the place out and wait until the dragon leaves to hunt (or see his lady friend(s) or rob a caravan ... perhaps one thoughtfully provided for said purpose).


Artifix wrote:
I have poison use ability, but I need to avoid drug. Though I am not sure if this is actually a drug as I can't find an official classification. I would still like an answer. I am making a drug lord for a evil campaign.

What do you mean when you say you need to 'avoid the drug' since the ability poison use does not seem to fit the bill for you somehow?

And --> as the 'drug lord' that sounds like that's a problem for your minions aka underlings. Cartel Lords don't typically make the stuff them selves they have others doing that.

Failing that maybe find some way to become a creature that is not effected or otherwise immune to the particular drug you're concerned about. Something undead or of the construct type perhaps.


I personally tended to use See Invisibility (later with Permanency) and then when I saw something invisible light it up with Glitterdust so now the whole party can see them.


Not to mention in the case presented by the OP just detecting an invisible intruder in more than enough to bring the dungeon down on top of the intruder(s). Pinpointing them at that point in time is merely icing on the cake as the area the intruder is in is now filling with foes bent on finding them. And some of them are likely to be bringing the more potent tools for use against an invisible intruder(s).


Most of the spells at least that might work to accomplish this are relatively high level.

Move Earth - might move a large volume of soil into the mouth of the cave.

Earthquake - either within the cave or potential to cause a landslide to block the entrance (with the side benefit of sealing up any entrance/exits the party might not be aware of. As Sarrah is quite correct the likelyhood of additional openings is quite high. As an intelligent dragon I certainly wouldn't pick a cave network with only one way in and out.

Transmute Rock to Mud - landslide or collapse potential

Summon an Elemental to do the dirty work.


Philo Pharynx wrote:
Detect magic may take three rounds to pinpoint somebody, but a paranoid will simply blast the area at an unfamiliar aura unaccompanied by anything visible. <snip>

Laughed recalling what happened to our party in a particularly weird campaign wherein the party found itself trying to sneak up on WWII German soldiers in a fortified position ... they never saw us but it only took one noise for us to learn what happens when a bunch of soldiers with machine guns opens up on 'the noise coming from the brush in the dark of night'.

True stealthiness requires moving slowly and cautiously which translates into needing to recast Invisibility an indecent number of times to explore something the size of a castle, never mind issues of giving oneself away while casting.


Not entirely certainly I understand what you are asking but >>> Normally the portal is fixed at both ends, however, the rules are sufficiently vague (or incomplete depending on how one views such things) to make this largely up to the GM to decide how it works within their campaign world.


Is the cave within rock, earth or 'other'? What is the party makeup and capabilities? Anyone have Knowledge Engineering or other potentially useful skills? Need a few more details.


Dispel Evil on those subject to Nightmare. This would automatically dispel the Nightmare and cause the attacker to become stunned (No save, no SR applies) ... for a relatively long time (10 min/lvl). Now turn the tables and locate them while they are stunned.


If the fortification chance works then I'd say the creature is immune to the effect carried by that particular attack. I.e. the next successful hit with the bleed weapon would require the fortification to work again or it would cause bleed damage etc..


To add to what Orfamay has said I would probably tell a player who is not a monk, brawler, (insert appropriate class/archetype), that they can do it but not be consider proficient.


In addition to the suggestions in the thread maybe it's time to play a Mystic Theurge. Cleric for the restorative spells and better Fort saves plus spells in general are lower level until much later when items etc. should make this a non issue.


Well Telekinesis has a range of 400+40ft/lvl and a weight limit of 375 lbs max at level 15.

That's 1200 feet before things like Enlarge metamagic.

So confer with your GM about a magical Trebuchet based off Telekinesis ... though again this is off into homebrew/rules territory. (As is almost all magic item creation stuff).


Chess Pwn wrote:
I feel if they die period. They are under you, you're their leader, if people die when you are the leader it's going to be harder to get people.

Agreed to a point. It'll will be even harder, however, if you get a reputation for placing your cohorts, followers and others under your command in over their heads, without proper equipment and care than if you do so and lose them with such support.


No I don't think that would work anymore than putting multiple "flaming burst" properties would result in more damage. I certainly wouldn't allow it in my own campaign(s).

I might, however, allow someone, especially someone with the right skills to build an even larger siege weapon that might shoot even further ... some really silly big cannon/artillery pieces have been constructed in the real world. Mix in some magic and you might manage a 'super' trebuchet of some sort.

But that is definitely off in homebrew, work with the GM territory.


Goth Guru wrote:

You have 2 feats that are in paradox. Both cannot function.

If the new Golorion world book said water only runs uphill, would you try to GM it that way?

That planet would be drier than Athas O.O


Consider some personal spells made Permanent as well ... See Invisibility, Darkvision, etc..


Or potentially use Limited Wish, Wish or Miracle which would make the spell level (and DC's) effectively 7th, 9th or 9th respectively.

But yeah Heighten Spell is essentially it.


Technically you miss your target as the Gelatinous Cube provides Total Cover. You also don't do any damage to the Gelatinous Cube and I'd hazard to say the likely hood you don't know the Cube is present has dropped to about zero (Or your not so bright character is wondering why his arrow is hanging in mid air, "Obviously a wizard is about!!" :P).


It's a weird area in the rules.

Many spell effects with the descriptor 'force' do in fact have listed hit points, AC or other 'stats' But which stats varies depending on the spell in question.

A Wall of Force has listed Hardness (30), hit points (20 per caster level) and may be damaged by weapons (not magical weapons, just weapons) as well as spells. But no AC is listed. There are rules for determining the AC of inanimate objects.

I'd have to go digging further but I'd say it (they) are objects but I'd also say they are in some subset which would make them immune to most non-damaging spells (edit: spells in general, damaging or otherwise) that aren't specifically mentioned in the spells description.


Yes, per RAW, pick a square as others have indicated.
Your Perception vs their Stealth and hopefully you can pick the correct square.
Or pick 1 square per attack in a full attack. (Preferable with a Seeking Weapon)
Or spell storing - Invisibility Purge, See Invisibility or Gitterdust (etc.).

Quote:
It just makes no sense for my ranged attack to suddenly stop in midair.

Maybe not but it is going to be less than even a 1 in 20 probably and archery certainly doesn't need the benefit. Conceivably it could be a very large number of potential squares, perhaps more than 20 in that line as each range increment is 2 squares. How does it interact with Improved Precise Shot? Gets stretched even thinner if you take this out of the 'hall' and out onto a wide open field ->>> archer picks 4+ lines, (anyone for 6?), fires off with Improved Precise Shot, and hits the orc between the eyeballs standing on a grass field somewhere within 220 ft.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

@ Kayerloth: You're misrepresenting when and where the readied action occurs.

If the PC says "I ready a Trip attempt against the next person who performs a melee attack against me," then the Readied Action does not occur until the enemy performs a Standard Action (or Full Attack Action) against the PC. One the Standard Action is taken, you can't just take it back because of a Readied Action. That makes Readied Actions absolutely pointless.

Also, if the enemy performs an Attack or similar Standard Action, your movement ends. Period. End of discussion.

Hmmm maybe I am not be clear (or maybe I am doing it wrong), but no I do not believe I am misrepresenting when and where the readied action occurs (or maybe the example is just poor). It occurs right before the action that triggered it. Hardly makes it pointless if your readied attack is successful, the guy will be prone and probably 15ft (or more) away. The difference I'm seeing is when the readied attack whiffs. Which if funny in a way since that's seems to be exactly not what the thread is about since the attack failed and probably didn't prevent anything.

Why should my movement end if the enemy unsuccessfully attacks me while I am moving? Forget about any attack by Player B but are you trying to say if Player B was moving past (and through) a threatened square and a foe (let's call him Player C) attempted to trip him (as an AoO) but failed Player B's movement would be done??? That would certainly make it easier for the trip expert to protect the squishies to the rear. I'm thinking that is not quite what you mean, yes?

Quote:
House ruling things is fine. The goal here though is to find out what the rules actually are (both RAW and RAI). Doing so then lets a GM do a better job of changing things up if they prefer to run it a little differently.

I couldn't agree more, I like to know when I am doing it 'outside' the intended rule (i.e. RAW) and understanding the intent of the rule designer helps me if I decide to if I do so as well.

PS This last bit of exchange convinces me there's enough metaphorical smoke for me to hit the FAQ button.


One fairly obvious (and powerful) spell which may help and has not been mentioned is Discern Location. As long as the foe doesn't have Mind Blank up constantly or the very specific intervention by a divine being it will at least be obvious that there is a personal demiplane to find and possibly a great deal more if done while they are in residence there.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Kayerloth wrote:

For me it would depend on what the activity the player had interrupted by the readied action as to what they might be able to do afterwards. It isn't necessarily as simple as the dichotomy listed in the OP. In some instances you could choose a new action in other cases no.

You can ready an attack and that attack might be a trip attempt.
You can not ready a 5 ft. step. One may or may not depending on what the readying player has done be able to choose to take a 5 ft. step as part of the attack/trip attempt.

Player A declares he will ready a trip attack should he be attacked by player B (or any other creature).
Player B moves up to the adjacent 5 ft space (and player A goes ugh I should have stated that a bit different) and then declares an attack on player A triggering the trip attempt by player A.

Assuming Player A takes a 5 ft step after his trip attempt we continue:
Trip fails ... I'd let player B continue to move (provided he didn't use all his movement) and attack Player A
Trip succeeds ... player B is now prone in a space 10 ft from player A and has a standard action still available to them.

"Another example would be drinking a potion, the potion gets sundered and destroyed, your action to drink the potion is now invalid"

I'd say you've used a standard action and have a move action remaining. Hopefully you use that action to get to a safe distance to retrieve and drink another potion.

The bolded parts I don't see how you think they make sense with the rules. If he's finish his movement and started his standard action how can he "continue moving" and use another standard action? Why do they get to take back and change their minds as to what they are doing?

For me he has not finished his move action, it was interrupted by the readied action/trip attempt AoO and that is why I would allow him to continue to move up to his normal limit. He has not made and used his attack action until he actually rolls the dice vs the targets AC. He is not 'committed to anything except what has occurred up to the point at which the foes attack occurs. I would even allow him to move and potential attack a different target or not even use an attack action going forward for the remainder of his turn. Note this is if the player A failed his Trip attempt. Heck while not RAW I'd be tempted to allow Player B to use the remainder of his move action to get back on his feet if he had used less than half his move prior to getting tripped (but I'd have to think about the consequences of that ruling a bit more). As for why do they get to take back and change their minds as to what they are doing ... to keep the stop/go aspect at bay and keep the combat as dynamic as possible for the d20 system. I am allowing the player/character to react as the situation changes in this case to the activity of one of his foes. More or less the same reason if you are using a Full attack you get to switch targets if a foe drops and why the rules allow you to 5 ft step and pick another target ... you get to respond (with GM over sight) to things as they occur during your turn.


Agree it makes for a great adventure hook or plot device.

I would personal work along the lines mentioned by CampinCarl and others resolving it not with a couple DC checks but with some adventuring activity by the characters involved.

Note the Plane Shift has a VERY large margin of error built in by strict RAW when compare to the size of the area created by the spell create demiplane. The caster and company will arrive 5 to 500 miles off from the intended arrival point. It is pretty unlikely the demiplane creator has the time or desire to cast Create Demiplane often enough to actual make arriving off target by those distances even possible. It's going to be up to the GM to reconcile this issue. And Plane Shift isn't the only way to travel to the demiplane. Again the rules are a bit muddy but Astral Travel and Etherealness are both listed as possible means of traveling to the demiplane which rather implies, at least by RAW, that the boundary between the demiplane and whichever plane it is 'within' is fairly readily moved across if you know where the two are coterminus and or coexistant. Still this is very much GM sandbox material.

@Paulicus The demiplane could be within either the Astral or Ethereal if created by the spell. If not created by the spell, if our wizard 'found' it, for instance, then I suppose it could be off almost any other plane and we are safely and utterly off in the GM's private sandbox.

Personally a spell component pouch will contain only such tuning forks for planes which are commonly known. Other tuning forks used as foci are made of materials which are not common or sufficiently inexpensive to be found in a component pouch (i.e. if you couldn't purchase it off the open market for under 5 gp don't expect to find it in the pouch).


For me it would depend on what the activity the player had interrupted by the readied action as to what they might be able to do afterwards. It isn't necessarily as simple as the dichotomy listed in the OP. In some instances you could choose a new action in other cases no.

You can ready an attack and that attack might be a trip attempt.
You can not ready a 5 ft. step. One may or may not depending on what the readying player has done be able to choose to take a 5 ft. step as part of the attack/trip attempt.

Player A declares he will ready a trip attack should he be attacked by player B (or any other creature).
Player B moves up to the adjacent 5 ft space (and player A goes ugh I should have stated that a bit different) and then declares an attack on player A triggering the trip attempt by player A.

Assuming Player A takes a 5 ft step after his trip attempt we continue:
Trip fails ... I'd let player B continue to move (provided he didn't use all his movement) and attack Player A
Trip succeeds ... player B is now prone in a space 10 ft from player A and has a standard action still available to them.

"Another example would be drinking a potion, the potion gets sundered and destroyed, your action to drink the potion is now invalid"

I'd say you've used a standard action and have a move action remaining. Hopefully you use that action to get to a safe distance to retrieve and drink another potion.


Dex and Str = 0
Both are listed in the Glossary as causing unconsciousness.
You can't take purely mental actions of the voluntary sort while unconscious.

Then again in the "Getting Started" section of the CRB a Dexterity of 0 is the only ability score which leaves you neither unconscious nor comatose except Con which merely leaves you 'dead'. Dex of 0 leaves you '... effectively immobile (but not unconscious)'

Basically RAW contradicts itself within the CRB.

Wanders off to see if the FAQ (or errata somewhere) addresses this basic issue.


Long time ago this same whole argument could have taken place, ironically, about Elven Chain Mail, as initial near as I can remember it the material it was made of was also not clearly identified ... it was merely very finely and artistically crafted suit of chainmail which happened to be made by the Elves in the world of Greyhawk. It wasn't until sometime down the road that it was stated to be made of Mithral.


Heward's Handy Haversack, Apparatus of Kwalish are a couple more


Mentioned in this thread or adding to it:
1)Have a back up tactical option or options
2)Dispel it
3)Cyclonic property
4)Attack from above
5)from Fickle Winds spell text:

Quote:
This spell has no effect within the area of a higher-level wind or weather spell.

6)AND Be happy the opposing arcane caster used Fickle Winds rather than any of a long list of potential far worse 5th level spell choices that might make life difficult for more than just ranged archery attacks


Why (and who) do they care what happens in and to the city? Doesn't sound like they've made much in the way of friends and there only objective is to grab their stuff and get out of town anyway. Do you want them, or hope they will, rally the slaves and lead the fight against the orcs? What is the party make up, are they capable of flight, stealth, etc.? Are they better suited to manning the walls and leading the defense from there or raiding the enemy army to destroy siege artillery, food supplies, or even perhaps clearing a old tunnel escape route leading out from the city some ally within the city knows about?


CR is guess work/artwork at that level and the difficulty experienced by a given party highly situational regardless of the alleged CR of the encountered creature(s).

A single boss vs a party with APL=CR ... this is just ugly for any boss regardless of the stated CR be it 5 or 50. Action economy is a major @^%&#$.

Multiple targets tends to alleviate the action economy issue.

Throw the CR out the window and design the encounter to challenge your party whether that encounter is a single creature or a multitude of creatures. By the time your party reaches those levels you should have a much greater grasp of exactly what is going to be required than any and all theory crafted stats you could work up currently.

Demon Lords (or Ladies) aren't caught alone with anyone much less a potentially deadly group of adventurers. Same is true for most any even semi-rational BBEG.

Terrain and Environment are the GM's best friend. This is crazily so when the BBEG "rules" said planar realm.

AC 48 (or whatever) is largely unbuffed and without any magic items. Nor are the target PC(s) suffering any debuffs. Have fun.


dot


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Pathos wrote:
Assuming they get their hands on it... yeah, Major Artifact.

Got this backwards ...

When the Artifact gets its hands on them :p


Sangerine wrote:

There is a will save on this spell.

I immediately dislike the implication that 5% of the population of any town will ignore a casting of the spell.
Multiple castings would help, but also get expensive and would require multiple material components.

So, I'm wondering how to run this spell. On one hand, I want it to succeed on mooks relatively easily.
On the other foot, I want people with competent will saves to have that chance of ignoring it.

I would only check when it mattered to the storyline and roll the Will save only when it became important. Generally I wouldn't bother checking 'everyone' in the kingdom. I'd only worry about the individual outsider (or whomever) when it mattered, i.e. when they were really focused on determining the 'truth' and therefore applying their Will to the issue (similar to the concept of interacting with an illusion in order to gain the save against the illusion, random mooks aren't interacting with the spell).

As for the idea of scaling the save against HP/HD I personally wouldn't go that route though I could see providing some sort of bonus if the large flawless gem was somehow related to the individual i.e. a gemstone related to the birth month, multiples of value higher than required or similar.

I'm unfamiliar with the series you speak of but I assume the first step to preventing the child's name from being learned is going to be secrecy, the pool of folks who actually know the birth and/or real name is going to be very small and very well known to the caster (perhaps literally only the Mom and the caster will know). And far as I can tell from reading the spell they are the only ones whose Will saves even matter as no one else at that point actually knows the correct information to even require their memories to be tweaked/erased/obliterated. And secondly this small group, being well known, consent to having their memories obliterated bypassing the worries about any Will saves happening to be a natural 20. This assumes the child is not already born and grown. If the apprentice is already a grown individual then I would suggest that part of the 'adventure/story' be about finding an apprentice whose birth is a bit cloudy and already limited in knowledge to reduce the number of folks who know the truth and number of potential Will saves.


I would go with caster level of the caster who most recently cast the Hallow/Unhallow. I say most recent because after the initial casting with the linked companion spell: "At the end of the year, the chosen effect lapses, but it can be renewed or replaced simply by casting hallow again." Hence a lesser (and lower level caster) could be maintaining a much much older casting of spell pairing by just casting Hallow/Unhallow.


Research (spells/divinations, libraries, sages etc.) is how I'd work what fork is needed for a given plane though finding one as unique as needed for a particular created demiplane is probably a leaning towards the difficult to 'own separate adventure' sort of thing (or the excellent idea of just *cough* borrowing it from the BBEG). And at some point the BBEG themselves had to figure out what Fork was needed.

As for extradimensional, well as I said I'm guessing most folks kind of ignore that particular twist but I'd also hazard that any campaign that doesn't has already dealt with the issue since bumping into extradimensional spaces has been occurring since Rope Trick so hopefully no catastrophic atomic failure is imminent.

If you assume you do Plane Shift and end up 5 to 500 miles outside the demiplane I would personally not inflict any 'shunting' damage but place your party somewhere within the sphere of the appropriate size on whichever plane (astral or ethereal) is appropriate. And from there you'd have to travel/adventure to where the demiplane is coterminous to the astral (or ethereal) and cross the boundary somehow depending on what sort of demiplane the BBEG had and what works story wise. Either way you are in the area of the 'GM gets to make it up' territory.

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