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Kayerloth's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 958 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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LazarX wrote:
Kayerloth wrote:

No need for magic.

There are a large variety of desalinization processes that could be used. I'm no expert (or engineer) but one of the simplest methods is likely via solar 'power'. Basically evaporate the water off (from your salt water supply - something the sun does naturally), then condense and collect the water. The hard part according to the Wikipedia article I read is probably getting the solar energy concentrated on a small area to cause the natural process to speed up sufficiently for any large scale use.

Short read: Look into Desalinization on the Web.

You'll notice that there aren't any record of any pre tech societies who've managed that. the major problem is that while desalination sounds nice, it's extremely engineering intensive to get it to scale beyond beaker stage.

Good point, though the knowledge is also probably lacking in those pre-tech societies and probably also be lacking in most imagined medieval fantasy settings so there is that as well.

Maybe instead a Permanent Wall of Fire (heat source) plus tubing and make a distillery.

Or just go back and use teams of 'create water' or 'create food and water'. Water from the later appears permanent (doesn't vanish after 24 hours).

No need for magic.

There are a large variety of desalinization processes that could be used. I'm no expert (or engineer) but one of the simplest methods is likely via solar 'power'. Basically evaporate the water off (from your salt water supply - something the sun does naturally), then condense and collect the water. The hard part according to the Wikipedia article I read is probably getting the solar energy concentrated on a small area to cause the natural process to speed up sufficiently for any large scale use.

Short read: Look into Desalinization on the Web.

Lots of solid advice above.

To Paulicus' excellent list of spells I'd add Limited Wish doubly so if the party you find yourself in is light on divine spells or casters.

The high(est) level direct damage I tended to use were Polar Ray and Meteor Swarm. Both are touch attacks and in my case I could change the damage type as well. Plus things like Rime and Dazing metamagic didn't yet exist for me which could be added for more debilitation (and control to a 'blaster' wizard).

While the points against direct damage blastiness are worth noting ... I like my cake and eating it too and not much will clear out the mooks so the Hasted, Greater Heroism (etc.) buffed Paladin and Barbarian can get at the BBEG like a well placed blast with some control metamagic tacked onto it.

Waves of Exhaustion plus Calcific Touch (or Polar Ray) can really demolish a targets Dexterity score in a hurry. The drawback to Waves of Exhaustion is that it must be a living target (and to Calcific Touch is its Range: Touch)

I totally agree with Paulicus' comments on Foresight. Depending on the GM the spell ranges from near worthless to potentially very powerful though a +2 insight bonus is nearly otherwise unobtainable for AC and Reflex saves. (And if you are up against a den of thieves and assassins the lack of surprise and flat-footed status might be life saving in itself :P)

It really depends on what set of rules you are going to be dealing with and that is going to be the GM's call (your call?).

PF doesn't, as Aleron has stated, have a set of "Epic" rules and has shied away from publishing any sticking to Mythic which while dealing with the power level takes a very different tack to the issue of 'beyond 20th' and really isn't a set of rules for beyond 20th as much as beyond 'normal' power levels. The brief bit in the CRB about 'Beyond 20th' really isn't useful at all to someone designing campaign material intended for what it sounds like you are aiming for i.e. CR 30+ but more aimed at the period right after 20th level and finishing out PC's pre 25th level (allowing them to have some fun with their capstone and 20th level abilities rather than "here are some nice capstone powers, too bad the campaign has ended")

Personally as someone who has both played and run 'Epic' material I'd have a look at this:

Pathfinder Epic Rules conversion

It uses the 3.0/3.5 Epic rules set and converts it to the Pathfinder rules set to level 30 in detail with guidelines for going as far as you want after that (much like the 3.0 Epic rules did). The only thing it doesn't cover is Monster creation or stats so you will need to create your own Epic Bestiary entries but does cover pretty much everything else you ask about above.

One note of warning, one thing about any Mounted combat specialist is they need room to operate and this is probably a hundred times true of archery based combat off a mount Mongol style (ride in, fire arrows, ride away without engaging in melee). So it might be good to check (if you haven't) about how this will work with whatever campaign you are joining so at the very least you have something your good at when inside a typical dungeon or inside the town walls, for example, if that will occur with any frequency.

Maybe I'm missing something but why is my mage killer not giggling at a Wizard who has used Emergency Force Field ... seems like he just took himself out of the fight? Okay I suppose he can buff himself or summon a couple creatures (inside the Sphere) but unless I'm doing it wrong (i.e. not RAW) he only has so much room inside the Sphere and no line of effect to cast anything outside the Sphere. And I can potentially be doing other things while keeping an eye on our self containing Wizard.

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
And with maxed out stealth combined with invisibility/dimension door - you think it's crazy for him to start next to the wizard? Or at least within 15 ft? (For dirty trick you only have to be in melee range - not next to them. All manuver monks based around dirty trick should hold a whip just to give dirty trick more range. :P

Yes it would work as described against most of my Wizards (or Wizards played by friends) but only if the underlying assumption is true. That underlying assumption seems to be "Wizard is caught alone". Most of my Wizards had what would amount to an awful Perception score (usually even after buffed to the gills vs any similarly buffed and Stealthy-type foe) but the underlying assumption was almost equally never true, there was almost always a very perceptive character around as well. For this to work you don't have to beat my perception you have to beat his. In general this tactic/character type will work better if used against an NPC/BBEG and not so much against a PC caster or group as PCs tend to be built to gain surprise and, as a group, avoid being surprised.

See Bob Bob Bob's post about all sorts of 'mages' that aren't the standard guy in robes ... and if that's all your mage killer is able to tackle (standard guy in robes) the character's focus might just be a bit too narrow for many campaigns.

Same sort of issue with anything "Scry and Fry" related. Never mind the Will save issue vs Scrying there's the issue of the sensor being detectable by anyone with a perception able to beat DC=20+Spell level of sensor. It also ignores the existence of Detect Scrying. I'd also consider it pretty easy GM'ing if the sensor isn't noticed before the Scryer had enough time to do anything remotely resembling studying the location for a Teleport type action ... in which case the target(s) are now aware of your 'interest' which is probably a bad thing.

While stealth may be relevant, Invisibility is again in my experience almost never a factor except for a small window of levels due to the presence of See Invisibility. (And again there's the issue of wizard being in the company of highly perceptive characters)

Also your stealthy mage killer best not be operating too far out on a limb and have a get away plan available (especially if this is a PC). Doesn't do a whole lot of good (on a personal basis) if you win initiative and take out said Wizard only to have his companions chew you to bits with their counterstrike. Then again I suppose this is always a risk when playing this sort of character concept/build and the ones getting to high levels will be the ones who's players have figured out just how far 'behind the lines' their character can operate and survive.

Might be as simple as a desire to keep the list relevant for the largest base of players, those whose groups can access only the Bestiary I.

On Pupsocket's list I'd note the Fifth Tier as also being very situational rather than strictly low-level. Or 'sucks to fall overboard' in a situation where you can't use magic (usually GM created).

Bacon666 wrote:

I would let the other chars make a heal skill check to spot that he's still alive.

At the same time I would warn my players that this is a 1 time boon... Next time a player forgets to write down hp, the char doesn't have them (1 time is an honest mistake... Recurring errors is not taking the game seriously...)


And for me that is assuming I had no reason to believe it was not an honest mistake.

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wraithstrike wrote:
There is no flat formula, and I would not change CR. What I do think you should do is be careful about the problems you give the players to solve, and be careful about which monsters you use. It is better if you keep the game at a low level unless you have other ways to compensate for lack of magic. Being permanently turned to stone by a medusa as an example might not go over well. IIRC you would need stone to flesh or break enchantment.

To take this a step further decide what the options for the PCs are for a "condition" before it happens, ideally before the game even starts. In turn this leads back to what Tacticslion is saying about needing to know more about the details. Is magic something only the NPCs control? Is magic exceedingly rare even for the NPCs (or truly unknown - and presumably waiting to be rediscovered ... or why use PF rules in the first place when plenty of sci-fi rules are out there)?

I don't think there is an easy answer to the OP question and certainly not a flat increase of 'x' amount for 'y' defense.

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Ability scores won't effect each other but sheesh that is going to be a much harder to slay Graveknight if his armor (containing his soul) has both its own mind and the ability to say Teleport or run away as well. Of course it also means his 'phylactery' may also get uncooperative if not happy with his Knight which might prove interesting to deal with if you are the Graveknight in question.

*Party enters dungeon and sees an ancient suit of Armor, which appears to be having one half of a loud argument, apparently with itself* :p (and oh gads why did my brain just start channeling R2D2's voice for the Armor)

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The ability scores the item have no direct effect on the wearer unless it specifically says so in the item description.

So no the Wisdom will not effect the wearer/bearer/possessor of the item. It will effect the item's Will save and any checks based on Wisdom. Same for Intelligence and Charisma. Just treat the item as if it is an NPC construct. As intelligent magic items they may have various skills and those skills will use the appropriate skill mods for those skills. The item can and certainly is likely to employ Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Bluff and or any other skills (powers and abilities) it may possess to try and meet its goals just like any intelligent NPC would do.

CRB, Intelligent Magic Items wrote:
Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Treat them as constructs. Intelligent items often have the ability to illuminate their surroundings at will (as magic weapons do); many cannot see otherwise.

And keep in mind these rules (*cough* guidelines) are one area of the rules set that needs very heavy GM oversight to work without being extremely disruptive to a campaign. They can also be very fun when handled well. And rather obviously that is my opinion.

I'm thinking that no you wouldn't be able to but not sure if it works out RAW that way.

I'd say that RAI anyway (and probably what I'd do) is select a spell-like ability duplicating a spell with a level less than or equal to 1/2 its caster level (round down) – 6 (the combined effect of -2 and -4, as that is where the +2 and +4 level mods pop up for the metamagic effects).

Or you would need to be level 16 ... [1/2*(16)]-6=2

Which not unsurprisingly is about the caster level needed to actually cast a Quickened, Empowered 2nd level spell. A wizard of 12th level is actually only capable of using Quickened Empowered 0-level spells.

Jeraa wrote:
For what its worth, the 3.5 FAQ states that when a magic item duplicates a spell, it only lasts for the duration of the spell at a caster level equal to the ... <snip> ... The 1st edition DMG says rings spell-like abilities function as 12th level of magic use unless the power requires a higher level of magic use. And the Ring of Invisibility says it functions exactly as the spell (with the exception that some rings have an added effect). That would imply the duration as well.

Keep in mind that the Ring of Invisibility would have then be based off the duration of a 12th level Magic User of AD&D as well if so ruling ... duration at that time was a whole heck of a lot longer than the 12 minutes it currently would be for a 12 level Wizard. In between (then and now) I believe there is even a period where the stated duration was a flat 24 hours for Invisibility.

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How about explaining this then:


Cloak of Etherealness

Aura strong transmutation; CL 15th

Slot shoulders; Price 55,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.


This silvery gray cloak seems to absorb light rather than be illuminated by it. On command, the cloak makes its wearer ethereal (as the ethereal jaunt spell). The effect is dismissible. The cloak works for a total of up to 10 minutes per day. This duration need not be continuous, but it must be used in 1 minute increments.


Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, ethereal jaunt; Cost 27,500 gp

Why bother with "(as the ethereal jaunt spell)" if you are going to go on and specify exactly how long and how continuous or not the activation is? Couldn't you just leave that chunk out of sentence?

with text missing:
Cloak of Etherealness

Aura strong transmutation; CL 15th

Slot shoulders; Price 55,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.


This silvery gray cloak seems to absorb light rather than be illuminated by it. On command, the cloak makes its wearer ethereal. The effect is dismissible. The cloak works for a total of up to 10 minutes per day. This duration need not be continuous, but it must be used in 1 minute increments.


Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, ethereal jaunt; Cost 27,500 gp

Personally I've always viewed it as you turn invisible as long as you wear the Ring. Ditto for Hat of Disguise. No idea if I hold that belief from something specific in the decades old text or not. I probably first read the text of a Ring of Invisibility almost 4 decades ago.

I'm with Ashiel, I'd be loath to reduce the CR much if at all. That the players have previously fought it is largely irrelevant to me. As you said each is essentially a new encounter making it effectively no different than if they had fought 3 (or 5) different dragons in differing encounters except that each side has learned more about the other with each encounter.

That said the Curse is a major consideration and makes the dragon significantly weaker for encounters while cursed. What I'd most likely do is have the dragon attempting to find a way to rid itself of the curse (going to see those goblins perhaps) and effectively put the party on a secret timer after which it automatically finds the cure (maybe they even learn of the 'timer' after capture of some goblins). If the party catches the dragon prior to removing the curse (and/or the rest of the damage) then the same CR because that's their 'bonus' reward for doing well and getting the dragon prior to its recovery. If they find and defeat the dragon but not until after it is cured than maybe drop the reward to CR9 or maybe just leave it be as they will get a tougher fight out of 'yet another' dragon encounter (particularly if it has goblin allies about).

Bottom line I wouldn't worry too much about the exact CR and exactly how that translates into xp. Give what feels right and forget about exactly how you arrive at the 'right' amount. Any bonus from numerous repeated encounters with the same dragon is 'story' xp. It certainly sounds as if the party has a significant tale to tell upon returning home where ever that may be.

I'm in the group of 'doesn't think it will accomplish what you are trying to do" with the caveat of maybe I don't entirely follow what you are trying to do.

Either way I suspect you need the Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew forums more than Advice (or more specifically you need advice on a Homebrew/House Rule answer for your issue).

Would stretching out the spell level progression between acquiring the next higher level of spell help? If it wasn't strictly linear you could still have 9th level spells without worrying about post 20th play.

Part of the issue is it involves "Stealth and Perception" which is a bit of a muddle as well.

Why should Still and Silent effect Spellcraft at all? Why aren't the effects and modifiers, if any, based off of Perception i.e. "but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast, and this incurs the same penalties as a Perception skill check due to distance, poor conditions, and other factors."? Wouldn't (shouldn't) altered components fall into the 'other factors' category?

Why doesn't casting time explicitly alter the Spellcraft DC?
Okay so let's not worry about the difference between an action, full round and a 1 round casting time. But what about when it goes for 3 rounds or 10 minutes or you get the idea?

Well the person who really needs to answer your question(s) is your GM. Only he knows how he intends to handle post 20th level play.

There's the 3.0/3.5 Epic rules. There is at least one conversion of those rules into PF -> PF conversion of Epic Rules. There's the other 3PP mentioned above. There is the very minimal mention and recommendations made in the CRB about advancing past 20th. Which one or combination of rules your GM is choosing will make a huge difference potentially. When he lets you know more then the advice can be better tailored to fit you and your character.

Yes you will be incredibly powerful especially after you've gone a bit past 20th and/or picked up some Mythic ranks and abilities. But it is good to remember it is always relative, as in powerful compared to what?

That said the change is not likely going to be hugely dramatic any more than advancing from 19th to 20th was for you, so unless that was overwhelming I wouldn't get overly anxious just yet (and just how much change also goes back to just what rules he is using or not using).

While our group was stopped at a local tavern our DM thought a bit of DM scry and fry might be in order. Shortly afterwards he was reading the description of Detect Scrying. I made the opposed caster level check, viewed the scryer and then teleported to the scryer's camp location just outside of town. The group overpowered the caster and a couple of other foes, cleaned up the camp and waited for the rest of their group to return from searching for us in town and then pummeled them into submission.

Its what I've done as well. Even to the point of if the noise of battle continues for a while or gets particularly loud of bringing the whole dungeon down on their heads.

boring7 wrote:

Funny story: I've actually been finding a lot of value in searching for off-standard spells that do nasty things (besides just HP damage) with failed reflex saves. Seems most high-level monsters soak their reflex as well.

Of course, Icy Prison isn't so useful against freedom of movement...

*Picks up quill, yes please do tell.*

My wizard would be doing the same thing ... And being third, of course, doesn't mean unimportant or the Evasion/Improved Evasion among other things wouldn't also be on his list.

Nimoot wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Kayerloth wrote:
Of course, as GM, you could always let them work on it, do research etc., without giving them the precise DC needed and if they aren't taking any hints you're providing on the appropriateness of said Item (or probable crafting level etc.) --> then some time later they are most likely the proud possessor of a suitably cursed Ring of Constant Whiffing (and if you feeling especially cruel anytime they do some how hit despite a -20 to all their rolls well then there's that miss chance it gives the possessor as well :p).
Spot on! : )

That's so mean though.... I know as a character, flooding 90% or more of my wealth into this ring for either myself or for a party member... spending 10-20 sessions making it, only to have it cursed? I'd feel so defeated I'd probably quit after that session...

If you can't use your imagination in a game like D&D and only use what you feel is Correct off the tables... Then what's the point yeah?

And overall I agree I probably wouldn't have the character in question actually get that far. More than likely they'd blow some coin in research and find out that what they ask is essentially impossible unless they get to very epic levels. Along the way the research would point towards some alternate ideas (some of the other Rings suggested in this thread), maybe point in the direction of the Mythic version of True Strike while hopefully getting the point across to even the most dim witted of players.

Here's a list of things I'd be looking for put into terms of what I want to gain or protect myself from rather than Items themselves. Some you can't get via Items unless custom stuff is on the table.

Abilities and Protections sought for high level and epic level play:
• Death Ward
• Freedom of Movement
• Evasion or Improved Evasion
• Hierarchy of saving throws -> Fortitude, then Will, then Reflex. By this I mean I value a good Fortitude save the most. The effects of failure are often fatal. Will is next most important perhaps as important as Fortitude as failure often leaves the character mental incapacitated or enslaved to another creature. Reflex is least important as it typically involves only damage often elemental damage. Then again watch out for casters using Dazing spells (and other status effect metamagic).
• Immunity to Precision attacks/damage such as Sneak Attack, i.e. ‘Fortification’
• Fast Healing
• Damage Reduction particularly DR= xx/-
• Planar Adaptability, ability to survive in extra planar (non-Material) environments.

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Of course, as GM, you could always let them work on it, do research etc., without giving them the precise DC needed and if they aren't taking any hints you're providing on the appropriateness of said Item (or probable crafting level etc.) --> then some time later they are most likely the proud possessor of a suitably cursed Ring of Constant Whiffing (and if you feeling especially cruel anytime they do some how hit despite a -20 to all their rolls well then there's that miss chance it gives the possessor as well :p).

To answer what seems to be the question. Difficult terrain?

It's not unlike a medium size creature that has to force its way thru thick brush ... assuming it's dense enough to be worth worrying about.

Keep in mind, a Grizzly Bear is large and an Elephant is huge per their Bestiary entries. Neither has any particular difficulty moving thru a typical forest or does much damage to the tree sized vegetation while moving on earth so you are talking about an unusually thick stand of trees to really do much. Certainly I have gotten fairly cinematic with scenes involving the surrounding forest but usually it has been restricted to the approach of some creature (building tension etc) rather than in combat but you could certainly have an Giant rip a small tree out if they found themselves short of weaponry in an encounter. Generally I'd think they'd be breaking off branches and such long before knocking whole trees down if that's what you are envisioning.

Ssalarn wrote:

Fast Healing 1 is going to have very little impact in combat, and out of combat healing in PF is largely a non-issue. It's not difficult to have all the OoC healing you'll ever need by level 3 or so, and it just won't be enough to drastically change anything at levels 1 and 2. I believe that Inner Sea Gods also introduced a pair of boots that give you the functional equivalent of low level fast healing.

The point is, it's a money-saving ability, not a game-changing ability.

And I'd have to respectfully disagree.

It's game changing the same way easy access to Wand(s) of Cure Light Wounds is game changing. It is game changing in that the character in question is probably never going to need to rest for more than a few minutes between encounters and can do so without using a single resource where it concerns his hit points. What again is one of the things the game is designed to do with an encounter? (/rhetorical question) In my games two things generally cause a rest/break for the characters, running out of spells or running out of hit points. You've just eliminated one of those for at least one player as they are not ever going to run out of hit points (shy of outright death of course). This heavily encourages the "15-minute" adventuring day. I don't know if you've ever had a player with a permanent Fast Healing ability. I have, though it was in the form of Fast Healing 3 (Epic Feat) in a post 20th campaign.

A character with Fast Healing 1 is going to regain 10 hit points a minute. Doesn't sound like much but that's 600/hour without any exhaustion of resources. If that is not game changing you are playing a very different game than I typically do. Which is great, it shows the flexibility of the system but I'd still call it game changing.

Put another way give the entire party Fast Healing 1 see what happens.

! Wow there's a way to get permanent Fast Healing in PF! (Shy of Mythic level rules)?

Okay don't really care 'how' but a bazillion red flags just went up a bazillion flag poles. Not saying I wouldn't allow whatever combo above is being discussed that gets said result but I am going to examine it with a fine tooth comb first and my 'knee jerk' reaction places me solidly in Claxon's 'it ain't happening camp' no matter how much it may be RAW/RAI until I know a whole let more about the pros and cons. There's a reason it (Fast Healing) isn't in the Glossary but found in the Bestiary Universal Monster Rules, one of them is it is rather game changing ability when a PC has it (permanently).

My personal view (RAI) would be "No"

Even though the typical Metamagic Rod is not also useable as a weapon it is still a magical object and even if not necessarily made of metal (most are but it leaves the door open per RAW) I think the inherent magic (your 'magical quality') renders it an invalid target for Shillelagh even if your GM said it was made of wood.

I also think while nothing per se prevents a Wizard from holding and wielding a "light mace" that happens to be a Metamagic Rod conceptually it's problematic (for me at least) unless said Wizard (or arcane casters in general) is proficient with a Light Mace even if his use is entirely as a Metamagic Rod. Equally obviously most divine casters tend to have less issues wielding a Lt Mace/Metamagic Rod since they possess the proficiency.

Count me in the "they acted stupidly and deserved to get in trouble" group.

That said I tend not to kill folks/TPK groups most of the time unless they are seriously messing up unless it is a particularly grim and gritty campaign, I'd much rather embarrass stupid acts/players than kill a high level and presumable liked PC. I might have very rapidly altered the 'game plan' and knocked out player number 1 or perhaps number 2, stripped him, and tied him upside down some distance from camp with a note attached. Said note might be anything from an offer to be bought off, a warning, to one scribbled with Explosive Runes or a Symbol of Death depending on the group and the nature of the campaign.

Unlike with Magic Items the 3.0/3.5 Epic rules never gave any guide lines as to what made a creature an "Epic" creature. Nothing along the lines of "if it is greater than 200,000gp, total enhancements equal to +11 or greater or +6 enhancement to attack/damage" for instance. Over all I think the boundary if you will between an Epic and a pre-Epic creature is fairly subjective and more of a zone rather than a line. I would lean towards developing something along similar lines if for some reason it is important for you or your campaign. There would not be in my opinion, typically, by a single stat that elevated a creature to epic status. CR probably comes closer than any other single stat and assigning CR is an art as much as hard science.

Damage Reduction (of DR/Epic) by itself is merely one marker of a potentially 'epic' creature. Both the Solar and the Tarrasque have DR/Epic, are both Epic creatures?

A Solar has indeed existed for a while (since about 1985). It existed prior to 3.0 rules much less the 3.0 epic rules. It was included in the module The Isle of the Ape with rules for what amounted to "epic" AD&D rules. It was for characters for levels 18+ <-- remember this is for 2nd Ed AD&D.

I've always allowed it and had it allowed in games I've been involved in.

That said maybe it doesn't actually work by RAW.

You cast Contingency + Teleport --- okay, now it gets tricky you die triggering your Companion spell. Are you still a legal target? Seems like yes based on spells like Raise Dead and Resurrection the targets of those spells being a 'dead creature touched' but brings up the point of when does a dead creature become an "object" and are those spells specifying a particular type of object namely a dead creature? *shrug* At least Teleport does effect objects as well as creatures even if the basic target is "you (plus stuff)".

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Nimoot wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
A 'constant' true strike is self-defeating. The duration is, effectively, one round or until discharged. If you were to increase it's duration to 'infinite', then it becomes, effectively, 'infinite...or until discharged'; you'd be paying the price for a permanent magic item and only end up with a one-use item, which will automatically activate when you make the first attack roll you make whether you like it or not, and then your item will be non-magical.

You're the first person to bring that up.... then it's the debate of semantics of... Since it's constant effect, and therefore ridiculously more pricey than just a ring of at will True Strike, I would think it'd keep the bonus on all attacks... but by the time you can afford things like this... you really don't need it lol... and if you did make it and it somehow got stolen... you'd be in huge trouble.

The spell gives +20 to attack to the very first, single, attack roll you make after being affected by the spell. This is the effect of the spell.

The effective duration of the spell simply denotes the time in which your first attack roll will be modified. Extending the duration simply extends the time in which your first, single attack will be modified.

The spell will never affect more than a single attack, and will never allow you to choose to not modify your attack roll if you have the spell affecting you.

Extending the duration of a spell doesn't change anything about the spell apart from the duration.

Keep in mind that an Item created based on spell 'X' (in this case True Strike) doesn't necessarily, and often doesn't, copy the exact effects of the spell ... it's merely the creative basis for the Item. This is why I said I would turn around and ask what the player was expecting the spell to do got the rather outrageous Item as a response. An Item crafted using True Strike as a basis doesn't have a single 'correct' way of working.

Ipslore the Red wrote:
You can't make magic items from mythic spells.

LOL, told you I was unfamiliar :D

Hmmm ...

Ring of Mythic Moments
- At will as a swift action Mythic Augmented Quickened Truestrike
- 1/day/tier as a standard action Moment of Prescience
- 1/day/tier as a standard action Moment of Greatness

What would that cost (as I'm not terribly familiar with Mythic rules and crafting (compared to Epic rules and crafting)?

No he doesn't. You can bypass the requirements to make an item in Pathfinder by upping the crafting DC. That was even specifically mentioned in the FAQ.

Okay taking my ball and going home. You are correct, the rules don't say you need 3 levels for every +1 if not talking about a weapon or armor. At some point I even typed the bit about +5 to the DC but it got edited out as I was typing ... because adding only 5 to the DC for not having some few dozen of the required levels (even if that assumption was incorrect) sounds a bit absurd to my ears. Yes technically if the required caster level was 60+ you could be 18th and add +5 to the spellcraft check for not having the additional 42+ levels by RAW. And I'd ask if that makes any sense at all to you?

RAW as much as it covers such an item see the above, as posted by Jeraa.

RAI ... *shrug* ... I'm thinking the Rules don't even intend to try and cover this beyond "Oh Heck NO!"

I'd repeat my general thought that this Item and any character capable of crafting this Item is so far out of the norm that saying things like adding +5 to the DC for missing the level requirement is not going to fly. But that is just how I'd run it. The Item as desired by the player is well beyond anything a sub Epic Level/Mythic crafter should be capable of crafting and the DC should, if one were to entertain the ability of someone to craft it, should reflect that fact.

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Artemis Moonstar wrote:
Sereinái wrote:
The house always wins
At least until you bring it down...

You just HAD to bring the Big Bad Wolf into the picture didn't ya?

Proving yet again there's always something bigger and badder out there.

Diego Rossi wrote:

<snip> I am appalled bit the ease with which people hand wave working for 6 years without any pause. Immortal or not, working for 6 straight years confined in a small area isn't sane.

My intent wasn't so much to hand wave it away as to point out how terribly far beyond the normal gaming experience (perhaps even most 'epic' gaming) so as to be pretty much an entirely different game altogether. The wizard in question needs in excess of 60 levels to be able to craft the Item. We have very little basis with which to even compare such a wizard to or even talk about the abilities of such a caster. Even the Epic rules barely cover such characters beyond "continue this table out as needed ... "

The Human Diversion wrote:
I haven't been able to find anything on UMD and portals - none of the Forgotten Realms books I've looked in mention it. Does anyone know of any rules on this, 3rd part or otherwise? Does anyone have any opinions on this?

Personally whether UMD works or not and any associated DC is entirely in your hands (the GM's). A portal isn't generally speaking a 'device', you can't really pick it up and move it around (typically). That said I don't see any particular reason you couldn't use it for such especially if your campaign/setting doesn't have spells dealing with portals (such as Analyze Portal). The drawback is you are probably going to end up pretty much creating the mechanics and associated DCs. A portal most closely resembles a Gate spell or Teleportation Circle but with a specific manner of causing it to function i.e. the 'Key'. And in a setting such as the Realms or Planescape it isn't necessarily relegated to 'high level' only since anyone with the right key, even a level 1 Commoner, could potentially cause the portal to open and then use the portal to travel. Such travel can be but isn't necessarily interplanar.

A hex is 12 miles from corner to corner (and about 95 square miles)

Nothing I've come across offers much help in deciding costs in anywhere near the manner the OP seems interested in. Then again I've yet to find the 24,000gp reference (link maybe?) Closest I've seen lists a bridge with no definition as to material(s) or length of the structure as "6BP, 1 Lot".

Each doubling adds +1 to the multiplier -> or 2+1+1=4 so x4

2000 doubled [rushed]
3000 doubled again (effectively triples)[rushed familiar helps]
4000 doubled three times (effectively quadruples)[rushed, familiar helps and mythic crafting]

Factors in base cost
+20 insight bonus to attack rolls
effects any weapon I'm wielding and all attacks I make.
ignores any miss chances due to concealment on target(s).
other things I'm currently forgetting

Note that we all also missed (maybe) that at least via 3.0/3.5 Epic crafting rules the above item is also getting priced out rather cheaply at 2,000,000 ... should be more like x20,000 or x25,000 not 2,000 or 2,500 so the Ring is more in the very vague and general neighborhood of 20,000,000 not 2,000,000. No idea if or how such an item might be priced or exist in PF Mythic Rules vs 3.0/3.5 Epic rules.

Note also many of the Walls use the terminology of "vertical" such as the text of both Prismatic Wall and Wall of Force. Of course in turn this implies a local directional pull of gravity. Be prepared to answer questions about positioning of such Walls on, for example, the Astral Plane.

Depends on the portal key. Some keys might be very specific along the lines of having just the right tuning fork for Plane Shift. Others it doesn't matter it can be a very mundane common object, it just needs to be used 'correctly'. That is the key might be an ordinary red rose ... but when you climb over this particular balcony and go thru this window on the night of a full moon during the spring time months humming a certain lullaby while it activates the portal.

Don't take the word "key" too literally as a crafted material object. It may require a high degree craftsmanship or it may be something like a flower or musical note and not at all craftable. A key in this case is just what ever opens or activates the portal.

Planescape materials along with Faerun/Forgotten Realms material are very good sources for expanding on portals. They don't call Sigil, The City of Doors because of all the mundane doorways after all.

What do you mean by "existing rules"?

A major chunk of the rule mechanics boil down to

Roll d20 + add stuff, subtract stuff, get result and interpret the result.
To say that is not a loose and flexible mechanic is missing a lot of how the heart of the rules work. Almost everything else is essentially adding to that base mechanic (I'd call it fluff but it's not in the usual sense fluff is used on the boards).

Everything outside the CRB is not essential, it is adding to the core, even most of the stuff in the core is adding to the actual core. This includes every book published by Paizo, it includes all the 3rd party material it includes all the rules tweaked in the Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew thread.

So to say "No you can't create concept "x"" means that as a GM you have largely accepted you can't create your own material: your own monsters, your own prestige class, your own traits, your own feats, your own spells etc.. and made it your own game. Obviously wrong, GM's everywhere do it constantly. Concepts by and large are not linked to anything as mundane as mechanics ... there's a reason there's a whole Section called Conversions. Are some things (such as concepts) harder to convert than others, obviously yes but impossible, I have strong doubts. I think it more often boils down to certain concepts don't mesh or work well with other concepts not that they cannot be created within the framework of the existing rules.

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We have "Advice" wherein all sorts of threads exist concerning various OP builds and items and creatures ...

Then we have an entire section devoted to just House rules ...

Matthew Downie wrote:
Gilarius wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
If going by the "bonuses on attacks are twice as expensive as bonuses to AC" rule of thumb, the item would be 2,000,000 gp.
Can you imagine the response of a high level wizard being asked to spend 1 million days crafting anything?
I make it 2000 days of work.

Heh so only 6 years give or take.

Never mind that for a caster level in this stratosphere said wizard probably has a demiplane or some other manner to 'I'll step in back for a sec, brb' and all but create the Item in an apparent few minutes aka make the crafting time as close to meaningless (Immortal/Ageless on a Timeless plane etc.) as it can get. He might very well be on a first name basis with the 'Greater God of Magic' who could literally just think the Item into existence. Hi welcome to Artifact Creation 101.

LazarX wrote:
<snip> It's very clear to me. In short, he wants a ring that gives him the bonus of True Strike on every attack he makes. That's the reason for the use of the word "constant". If he did not mean that, I would suggest that his first step would be a grammar and vocabulary review. <snip>

Oh I pretty much 100% agree that is what he appears to be asking. I just don't want to assume he isn't having some grammary and vocabulary issues before giving a flat "Oh hell no" ... or at least be prepared to follow up with "Is that really what you are asking?"

Bob Bob Bob" wrote:
Depends on whether you want a ring of at will true strike or at will quickened true strike.

Part of my issue with pricing the cost of The Item is it isn't even clear if this (the above pair of choices) is what is desired. What does the player in question mean by "continuous" in this case? Neither the above quite fits the normal english meaning of 'continuous' and neither really fits the game term either. If I have to do anything even 'at will' to activate the power is it really 'continuous'? Since the player is inquiring about a Ring and not a Wand my initial assumption is they are not looking for what would amount to a wand with infinite charges that casts True Strike. But maybe that is what they are after *shrug*, I simply don't know.

Edit: Actually as initially phrased the term used wasn't continuous but "constant".

It's off any non-Epic charts if you are following Gilarius' line of thought. Which by default, as phrased, I'd tend to do, hence the questioning response.

20 x 20 = 400 (bonus squared)
400 x 2000 = 800,000
plus whatever adds you want to toss into the mix for negating miss chances from concealment which is fairly close to Seeking (which is for ranged weapons only) so that changes the above to ~ 882,000 plus the fact it is a Ring etc., etc..

Then I'd look at you again and repeat the questions above. As for a Ring doing #1 above I'm probably going to at least double the 882,000 figure (as the Ring is presumably going to work no matter what weapon you take to hand (or hands) as well as the fact it is not an enhancement bonus but a rare 'insight' bonus as well so maybe x2500 rather than 2000). Hopefully by now if this is not a seriously epic campaign the player asking is taking the not so subtle hint that this is not an appropriate item if it functions anywhere near like in #1 above.

EDIT: As for just how Epic a weapon well the 3.5 Epic guidelines if I'm not mistakenly recalling would place this in the realm of needing a 63rd level or so caster (to get to the needed +21 bonus equivalent).

EDIT2: If it's not crystal clear by now how one envisions the item is going to very dramatically effect my idea of how much such an item would cost. There is a huge difference between #1 or #2 and the various other options eluded to in this thread.

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Mathius wrote:
So how do go about magically treating the walls to double the effect.

Lots of lead impregnated brick and lead sheeting certainly makes a house a whole lot heavier for when it drops itself out of a tornado to swat a witch (not to mention blocking all her divinations to foresee the Hostile Hostel).

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