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Kayerloth's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,062 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Let's see for my Loremaster I'd usually have the following (a 3.5 character), sticking to the PHB (outside of Elminster's Evasion) and going off 8+ yr old memories. There's a number of other spells around that either aren't arcane or didn't exist when he was an active character.

Permanency - Arcane Sight, See Invisibility, Darkvision
Telepathic Bond (permanent with one other individual) also via Permanency
Greater Magic Weapon (available) - in case a weird special material or weapon was ever needed to bypass some equally weird DR etc.
Detect Scrying - probably the first one on this list to get 24-7 usage.
Mages Private Sanctum (available) +/- Secure Shelter
(or Mages Magnificent Mansion) - rapid total protection from scrying and other magical spying for however many folks can fit within the Shelter.
Prying Eyes (or Greater Prying Eyes)
Overland Flight
Contingency (typically linked to Teleport/command word to a 'safe' location upon being triggered), later Elminster's Evasion
Mind Blank
Moment of Prescience, usually a second one available to be recast if used.

Depending on circumstances:
(Extended) Protection from "Energy" (of whatever I expected to go up against)
(Extended) Stoneskin
False Vision and/or Screen
Instant Summons
Dimensional Lock
(Extended) Foresight
(Extended) Prismatic Sphere

He also typically had a Limited Wish memorized plus access to one or more Limited Wishes on scrolls for quick access to just about any spell of the proper levels (for use with Limited Wish) that he had ever seen or heard of and he suddenly found it required.

Claxon wrote:

I'm not sure if that's what the text implies or not. It is a bit unclear to me.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it too much because the chances that you would succeed at landing two stunning fist attempts is likely rather small (due to low DC).

While the DC may in fact be low (on the one character I did have it on it wasn't what I'd call insanely hard, but it wasn't particularly low either which might have had something to do with his Wisdom/cleric levels ;)). Equally likely that unless used against only arcane casters the foes good Fort save will be as much a contributor as a low DC.

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Plus there was nothing keeping the count from using a torch.

Except, of course, the Count himself wouldn't stoop to such uncouth and uncivilized behavior at least at that point. Now some other *lesser* vampire might not be so inclined. Or the players might find themselves in what amounts to a self inflicted golden cage/prison with the vampire waiting outside to pounce when the leave their safe haven.

All the above ...

And I don't know about others in this thread but feel free to (in fact I'd encourage it) to alter creatures from their Bestiary entries particularly if you feel it adds to the story or the players (but not characters) are familiar with the creature.

As for the bit about Dresden residential strength no reason you couldn't create such variance by allowing the vampire a save, setting the DC from essentially impossible for a multi-generational home to fairly easy for a long term rental within an otherwise public establishment etc..

(was ruled no relfex save possible since the dragon was so big no way he could avoid the blades - maybe thats the error here by the DM)

Nope, not maybe ... that's definitely an error.

I think by now it should be clear that regardless of the size of the creature it gets a Reflex save ... the DM is making his own problem by ruling otherwise. And as someone else has pointed out the logic he is using with his houserule is going to get him in trouble with any wall spell the caster might use nevermind the logic being extended to all sorts of other spells >>> He's big so how is he going to dodge any blast spell that would otherwise allow a Reflex save ... because that's not the intent or design of the game, the game is designing and balanced around the assumption that it is almost impossible, if not actually impossible, to be denied a saving throw.

If your DM stopped to think about it the dragon is worse off than if he deliberately moved through the wall ... by the spells text he clearly gets one if he were to do so

Any creature passing through the wall takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 15d6), with a Reflex save for half damage.

Not any creature size Med or smaller or something similar.

He needs to rethink his house ruling or he is going to have to deal with far worse down the road.
Edit: To be fair he needs to rethink the consequences of his ruling ... often the undoing of DM's is not thinking through the consequence of a ruling particularly one being adhered to that was made up on the fly. Fortunately it is an easily fixed problem.

It almost has to be a 'shell'. If the 'globe' was solid it would make it very difficult (i.e. impossible) for the caster (or anyone else) to see anything at all while inside the globe. As is I've always run it as anyone inside the Sphere could clearly see everything within the Sphere but their vision (including the casters) was blocked by the 'opaque' surface of the Sphere regardless of which side they were looking at (inner vs outer).

Curious, since I've never seen or heard of it ever being done, but has anyone ever cast the Sphere to enclose not only the caster but foes so as to trap them ... particular if you are in the camp of not be able to pass through even if one makes the saves. The caster survives for 3 rounds ( 1 round to caster Prismatic Sphere and 2 more rounds to make it Permanent) and he has one heck of a prison for any non-caster inside with him if, in fact, you can't make the saves to pass through the Sphere.

Yep that is definitely not using the amulet as intended and being a bit creative with the english language vs game language.

Other notes:
1) It's an artifact, unless he's rather high level it's probably not appropriate gear.
2) The effects are only against other divine casters anyone else is not so effected.
3) They character wielding the Talisman of Pure Good must not only be good but of exceptionally pure thought and action or the target gets a Reflex save DC 19

Edit: The biggie that will slow him down and reduce his willingness to employ the trick is number 2 above.

Jokem wrote:
I don't see where the Sphere blocks Astral travel and I don't see where it says the Sphere extends into the Astral Plane. I agree using a lower level spell like Teleport to circumvent the Sphere is kind of broken, but the rules are silent on that.

Nothing specifically states so in a clear manner.

But it's a 9th level abjuration spell clearly meant (RAI) to provide a very secure, difficult to penetrate area, the caster can retreat into or bunker down within ... and having something such as a 3rd level spell (Blink) penetrate the sphere (never mind Teleport and higher spells) without repercussions (making a series of 7 saves) seems very contrary to this intent if not clearly specified in the spell's text.

I've always played and run it as Malachi has described and only recently seen threads here that made me aware of a relatively significant (and not the least bit unreasonable) variation in interpretation of the spell(s)

My inclination would be to disallow movement via spells and only allow physical movement in any attempt to pass through the barrier. Fly, Walk, Crawl, Climb, etc., but not Dim Door, Ethereal Jaunt, Shadow Jump, Blink and the like.

But yes expect some serious table variation until such time as the use of high level spells becomes prevalent in PFS and similar environments (which is to say likely never).

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A Permanent Telepathic Bond costs 12,500 per casting. So for 37,500gp our hypothetical wizard can be mentally linked to 3 other companions so now our ambushers need to not only prevent dimensional travel (Teleportation, Ethereal spells etc.) but somehow block telepathic communication or it may again get rapidly sticky for our 10th level party. Only antimagic, dead or wild magic areas really stop telepathic communication that I know of (or perhaps a clever Wish, Miracle or Limited Wish type magics) For about twice this cost all 4 companions may be linked to each other allowing any of the 4 to communicate with any one else in the group.

Forgotten Realms also had "Elminster's Evasion" a form of Contingency allowing up to 6 triggering conditions. Likewise, far as I recall, it was a personal spell.

boring7 wrote:
So, to reiterate, what are the odds the wizard has a relevant skill that can survive the encounter with the Very Lucky Assassin group?

Things that would help keep my Loremaster upright

1) His Permanent Telepathic Bond - Very quickly a roughly 17th level and not so naked Eldritch Knight is going to appear ... unless I've gone total wacked and I'm taking my bath is some random pond in the middle of nowhere (i.e. I'm assuming the EK is going to know fairly quickly with minimal discussion where I have been caught with my Robes missing). She might bring friends if our Assassins have suddenly become very unlucky. Friends otherwise known as his adventuring companions. As someone pointed out upthread high level characters have high level friends.
2) In addition to the likelyhood of not having burned all his memorized spells he has multiple offensive SLA's.
3) All those Extended hour/level buffs he tends to cast. And yes usually the melee companions would also be benefiting from said buffs (and or cast their own).

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10 Demerits for no one mentioning some 145 posts into the thread the Called ability enhancement which could quite radically change the scenario. Be assured that even if it were not my preferred ultimate weapon of doom my 20 level melee type is almost certainly going to have at least one weapon and one suit of armor with the enhancement stashed away for just such an occurrence. I really truly am a utter meathead if in fact that gear is more than 100 ft away when I'm 'naked' or otherwise not properly geared up.

Matthew Downie wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I think this is why I like sorcerers with Eschew Materials, Silent Spell and Still Spell so much; they aren't the least bit dependent on gear for their powers and can be an amazing threat to their enemies even when captured, bound, gagged and stripped naked.
That just means that a sensible enemy will kill them rather than trying to take them alive.

Killing them just because they are a spellcaster and therefore potentially dangerous is not automatically the sensible course of action. It can also reek of metagaming as I see it.

How do you know in character that it is spellcaster and of a certain class/archetype etc.?

In a high fantasy world how do you know killing them lessens the threat to you? Maybe you'll get hit by a nasty death curse or trigger some Contingency based around death ... Contingency: Companion spell-Sending. The sending goes to a prearranged target who has been instructed upon receiving the sending to hire 12 very competent assassins to track down his killer(s). Maybe they'll simply get Raised/Reincarnated/Resurrected and come looking for you. Reincarnated could be especially fun since they likely get what amounts to the ultimate plastic surgery job, 'surprise'.

In short in a magical world there is no assurance that death is going to remove the threat for all the same reasons such is the case in our own world plus you have all the complications induced by the presence of magic in the world. Even if you the player 'knows' that death curses don't exist does the character truly know that? Prisoners are a risk, but then so is a 'dead' person.

My own version of Ravingdork's sorcerer not only had those feats but high levels of Bluff and Sense Motive with her spells known picked specifically to work with those feats. Very very few of her spells required either a focus or expensive material components to use. Best way to neuter her was probably to have a blind and deaf grappling expert sit on her unconscious form till help arrived.

You'll coat the displaced target with the Glitterdust but his sparkly self will still appear to be displaced a couple feet from his actual location owing to his Displacement. You might 'see' him better but you are still aiming at the wrong location.

Buri Reborn wrote:
AmFs are disastrous to most characters of any significant level. So, be careful with that tactic. However, it'd be hilarious to have such a familiar fly around enemies keeping them denied magical support. Make it an invisible familiar with quicken spell or somesuch.

Amusing as that thought is

1) Familiar (or at least any typical one) won't be able to be invisible in an AMF for obvious reasons.
2) And has the additional drawback of suppressing several other benefits of the familiar-wizard arcane bond. No Share Spells, No Empathic Link, No Scrying on the familiar etc.
3) And of course the familiar would be totally shielding the target from any spells the Wizard might have otherwise used on him be it buffs on the fighter or attacks/debuffs on the foe.

Never mind that you are dead on about it typically being a really bad idea for most characters to be caught in an AMF in terms of their 'power' from suppressing all their personal magic items and spells.

I'd agree and rule it like LazarX. In addition note that Dimensional Lock (and for that matter Dimensional Anchor) normally has a visual clue you are about to enter the area i.e. a shimmering emerald field. Follow up with Knowledge Arcana should yield what the result will be if a Contingency to Teleport were to be triggered in the area.

Things to remember: its a village, a "Medieval" village meaning we have all sort of animals (dogs, chickens, ducks, pigs, oxen, horses etc.) living inside these peasant cottages or at least in very close proximity. Most of these animals are also "fire detectors" who are going to raise an unholy racket around fire even if the silly humans are prone to sleeping through it. If it's a village with any sort of hostile creatures about (you know the usual orcs, goblins, drow whatever) then there will be guards or someone on watch 24-7 to warn the village of attackers and coincidently fires. In any case the sheer number of Perception checks to detect the smoke/fire should make it very difficult to burn the village down with everyone dying inside their cottages. Fighting the fire and having a home left afterwards is another matter.

The best two fire fighting spells are Quench (Druid 3) and Pyrotechnics (Bard 2, Sor/Wiz 2) if you can deal with the resulting light show or smoke. Create Water is a decent "we no longer have to have a bucket brigade from the well, pond or river" to battle the fire.

Previous post attempt died a grizzly death do to computer wanting to reboot ... arrrgh.

Anyway I tend to agree with Claxon. I had a Living City character who started down the road towards mounted combat and so rarely saw opportunities to use it much less the space required for mounted archery that dedicating feats to the mounted aspect of archery would have been a total waste.

That said for a home campaign it is very very very much a matter of what sort of campaign it is. Lots of wide open spaces with room to maneuver then it is much more likely to be a helpful feat particularly for making your iterative attacks effective. That said I suspect even in such wide open areas it will be as Claxon has noted ... you won't often have to move far enough often enough to make it worth it. Unless of course your campaign features a lot of encounters with foes on various cavalry type mounts looking to get in your face "Hello my name is Genghis, prepare to die!".

Xexyz wrote:
Sigurd wrote:
Xexyz wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is there a specific reason your character is worried about someone wanting to steal his Precious? Is it just a general, "if I die I don't want evil to get their hands on it" or does your character have reason to believe thieves may specifically target your weapon for taking?
The character's whole focus is outthinking and preparing opposition to undead. He expects intelligent undead to play dirty.
The Called property is a +1 cost and allows you to teleport your weapon to your hand as long at it's within 100 ft. Dunno if that's enough distance, but it's something.

If I'm following his thoughts correctly he won't want to do this as he has the last +2 (for a total of +10) set aside for Lifesurge ... unless the campaign is headed for the realms where a +11 or better weapon is possible. Note that both Dimensional Anchor and Dimensional Lock would block Called from functioning (and would also block an Intelligent sword from using teleportation magic as well). I do like Called otherwise especially since you can Call it while it is in the possession of another creature (like its thief).

Well several of the options listed above are difficult to impossible for a high level cleric without an equally high level and thoroughly trusted arcane caster helping (Sor/Wiz) unless you start dropping Miracles left and right.

For example no Arcane Mark/Instant Summons though I'm going to hazard that most GM's wouldn't be too resistant to developing a "Divine Mark" variant on Arcane Mark. Instant Summons (via Miracle) at least has a duration of 'permanent until discharged' ... and is only going to get discharged after someone steals it.

You can't readily Sequester it because that's a non-permanent arcane only spell, though the duration is measured in days making using a Miracle a potential solution for times of heightened threat of theft perhaps.

Gate and access to the Positive Energy plane might be a good solution for when you need to store it or otherwise aren't carrying it around. Can't think of any place I'd more like to avoid than the well defended lair of a high level cleric that's located on the Positive Energy plane if I were an undead foe. The rest of the time I would tend to agree with the other posters that you physically carrying it about it the best security if for no other reason than your saves are probably a durn sight better than its saves :p. A demiplane with traits as close as possible to the Positive Energy plane is probably a similarly good idea.

And yes giving it intelligence comes with all the pros and cons of making it effectively a creature ... an NPC construct creature, at least that's how I'd read it/rule it.

How high a 'high' level cleric are we talking about ... 12th or 19th or other?

And to be utterly clear, available to Fighters (or those with 'counts as Fighter') who are 4th level and higher. The option isn't limited to just 4th level fighters. I don't know off hand if PF, as is the case with Forgotten Realms, has any feats only available at first level for instance and by extension potentially only available at level 'x'. PF CRB has an asterisk by feats which are 'combat' feats and therefore valid choices for Fighter bonus feats.

Imbicatus wrote:
Of course, if someone detects magic or better yet arcane sight, there will be an illusion aura coming from behind the bush, and from wherever the assassin is.

Or best yet See Invisibility :)

Or if they are looking for their missing friend/dude maybe they Track him to his location.

Refuge perhaps (cleric, sorcerer/wizard spell)?

School conjuration (teleportation); Level cleric 7, sorcerer/wizard 9

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V, S, M (a prepared object worth 1,500 gp)

Range touch

Target object touched

Duration permanent until discharged

Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

When you cast this spell, you create powerful magic in a specially prepared object. This object contains the power to instantly transport its possessor across any distance within the same plane to your abode. Once the item is so enhanced, you must give it willingly to a creature and at the same time inform it of a command word to be spoken when the item is used. To make use of the item, the subject speaks the command word at the same time that it rends or breaks the item (a standard action). When this is done, the individual and all objects it is wearing and carrying (to a maximum of the character's heavy load) are instantly transported to your abode. No other creatures are affected (aside from a familiar or animal companion that is touching the subject).

You can alter the spell when casting it so that it transports you to within 10 feet of the possessor of the item when it is broken and the command word spoken. You will have a general idea of the location and situation of the item possessor at the time the refuge spell is discharged, but once you decide to alter the spell in this fashion, you have no choice whether or not to be transported.

Coriat wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

So what happens to this dungeon when your PCs wise up and cast Nondetection, Mind Blank, or pass their Will save?

You only need one person in the party to fail.... unless they split up of course. But that solution has it's own problems.
Given scrying's hourlong casting time, by the time you finish casting it two or three times to get someone to fail, the party is probably done adventuring for the day.

Also quite true but I think Lazar and I know I was, were making the assumption that such Scrying wasn't necessarily via the spell but through an item which depending on your GM may or may not require an hour to activate. It also doesn't change the fact you need generally to protect everyone from whatever magical (many of which are still slow at 10 min CT but considerably more repeatable) means of spying the BBEG has or otherwise he finds the weak link(s) to exploit.

Ascalaphus wrote:
I don't really see Sneak Attack working so well; the problem with 5ft corridors is that you can't get to the other side of enemies to flank them. <snip> ... <snip>

At low levels sneak attacks via high stealth can work comparatively well. Why you say?

Flanking to gain sneak is probably not the best way to go ... good way for the lowbie rogue to get 'cut-off' and squashed by getting flanked himself but approach stealthily for first strike:

- You've no iterative attacks to lose, move and standard attack is more viable.
- Foes also have poorer LOS/perception skill to see/detect you incapacitate/kill your target/their buddies and your approach.
- Foes in general have less health ... that added 1d6 or 2d6 on top of your normal damage has greater impact and/or is less behind what the 2 Handed Barbarian is likely doing at his lower levels.
- Foes in general will have less special senses to detect you moving about or it is likely there will be less such foes to overcome (i.e. a single guard dog with scent vs a pack of wolves or kennel full of guard dogs)

The higher the APL and CR of foes the less these advantages are present and the 'rogue' will be more in need of launching full attacks with sneak using either flank or of other tricks (blinded or stunned opponents etc.) to keep up in the damage department.

Neo2151 wrote:
Weirdo wrote:

Some themes are in short supply on the cleric's spell list. They do not get a single first level trickery-themed spell.

Inquisitors don't <snip> And while your clergy don't have to be divine casters it doesn't make sense for a deity not to invest their chosen servants with some form of divine power.

This person gets it.

And with the above comes some choices:

1) You accept that cleric won't ever fit the bill and go ahead and use the list perhaps avoiding as much as possible particularly 'wrong' spells for the theme such as Water/Ice spells for your fire themed deity but go ahead and use the rest that aren't utterly out of theme. Probably this is fairly close to what most folks do when it does bother them.

2) Combine the above with dipping into other classes to gain abilities you feel are more correct for your Trickster of Erevan Illsere.

3) Establish spell lists and class abilities for each and every deity in your pantheon of choices for your PCs. For some themes this is going to involve an absolute megaton of homebrew work before you ever start to game. But it's basically where "Witch" and "Inquisitor" (and even "Oracle") classes came from you'll just have to do it a whole bunch more times until you have all the 'classes' you need. This is also why so many folks tend to fall back to one of the above choices for this issue even if it really doesn't work as desired.

Morgan Holy Seeker of Kelemvor :)

I would probably let you but:

Your mounts remaining move is going to be 'uncontrolled' by you barring some way of communicating your desires. It may or may not move like you desire unless it is an intelligent mount or otherwise trained. I might bump the DC and/or require an acrobatics check/Soft Fall to avoid damage from dropping off a moving mount

But that is all me GMing stuff on the fly. I don't think RAW really indicates or covers the question.

Yep drop the game and GM asap, bloody waste of time unless you enjoy such ... stuff.

Interjection Games wrote:
How does this change if, say, the dungeon is the "corpse" of a nearly-extinguished god and the minions are a sort of immune system?

It becomes a very unusual and unique setting for an adventure. And is probably going to require a heck of a lot of GM design time to do it justice compared to the fairly simple lets create a dungeon with a surveillance system. But it could also be far more memorable if one was to pull it off.

Stockvillain wrote:

Let us not forget the usefulness of the spell "Enter Image," which allows a spellcaster to feed his vanity while expanding his ability to keep tabs on his complex.

The images can be located on just about any object in the dungeon, including coins and tokens and keys.

Nice :) And also not only not a 'scrying' spell but not even a divination spell. Only real downside is it is very thematic not something any old BBEG could do ... then again the whole idea of tracking via scrying/surveillance set-up is a fairly one time trick to use by a GM.

LazarX wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

So what happens to this dungeon when your PCs wise up and cast Nondetection, Mind Blank, or pass their Will save?

You only need one person in the party to fail.... unless they split up of course. But that solution has it's own problems.

Or familiar or animal companion or hireling to stress the point a bit.

Mind Blank does tend to put quite a damper on remote magical spying but then you are talking about a very high level party (or caster anyway) to cover everyone. Nondetection and strong Will saves are more likely an issue for a GM well before you get into the later teens level-wise where Mind Blank gets into the picture.

Scrying is also vulnerable to Spell Immunity. Clairaudience Clairvoyance, Arcane Eye, Prying/Greater Prying Eyes are 'no SR' and so avoid being stifled by Spell Immunity.

Maybe the BBEG deliberately leaves some treasure in one of the first rooms. They are oddly marked gold coins, figurines or other items ... now he doesn't use any subschool scrying spells (no sensor to detect). He uses Locate Object to track the 'treasure' and indirectly the PCs who have unwittingly placed 'bugs' on themselves. Biggest issue here, by RAW, is the relatively limited duration on Locate Object and/or the potential the party places the treasure within a extradimensional space (Haversack etc. and hence out of range) Obviously he warns his minions not to touch/take/handle/move etc. any of the 'treasure'.

Edit: If you are feeling especially perverse make the 'treasure' above pieces of the map of the dungeon scribed on clay tablets now smashed into sharp shards of map chunks. Sharp shards of dungeon map are more likely not to be placed inside an extradimensional space for both the convenience of checking the map and to avoid any accidental rupturing of the Bag, Haversack etc.

Potential hurdles with the plan (not to throw too much of a wet blanket on the idea I hope):

CRB, Magic wrote:

Scrying: A scrying spell creates an invisible magical sensor that sends you information. Unless noted otherwise, the sensor has the same powers of sensory acuity that you possess. This level of acuity includes any spells or effects that target you, but not spells or effects that emanate from you. The sensor, however, is treated as a separate, independent sensory organ of yours, and thus functions normally even if you have been blinded or deafened, or otherwise suffered sensory impairment.

A creature can notice the sensor by making a Perception check with a DC 20 + the spell level. The sensor can be dispelled as if it were an active spell.

Lead sheeting or magical protection blocks a scrying spell, and you sense that the spell is blocked.

This section isn't about the Scrying spell per se but about any spell of the subschool of Divination scrying. So any perceptive PCs are going to have a chance of noticing any such sensor which at minimum alerts them to being spied upon and that perception DC is not particularly hard to make by anyone with a reasonable amount of skill especially if given multiple opportunities by repeated scrying . Of course what they do in response is in their court. Their best response is Nondetection and/or Detect Scrying. If they have access to teleportion magic (to leave the dungeon) then they can gain access to either of these spells as well if they don't already have such access. You might end up with smart PCs suddenly in your BBEG's face just after he sends all his minions to 'block them at the front door' which could be very bad for your boss if he isn't prepared for such.

More thoughts later but must get off to work.

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Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

I'm a high-level TWFer. I do ridiculous amounts of damage with a weapon in each hand.

Oops! Due to a minor SNAFU, all my limbs have fallen off! I now have no arms and no legs.


Quick, cast freedom of movement on me so that I can 'move and attack normally for the duration of the spell'!

I'll bite your leg off!

Seems pretty straight forward to me ... by RAW Mind Blank will not protect you (i.e. prevent or allow a save) against the Power Word 'group' since they do not allow a saving throw.

The Dragon wrote:
Locate object could put a cinch in the 'drop off a ship' plan, though.

Discern Location perhaps, Locate Object has a rather small range for scanning anything big enough to float your typical ship however unless you already know where to look ("Yes sire the object was seen being dropped just off Grimwatch Point"). But Discern Location is likely a bit beyond a 10th level party.

Scrying/Greater Scrying - Who exactly are you going to scry? Strongly implies you know the murderer already. In any case a strong Will save is a good start especially given things like Discern Lies and Zone of Truth also allow Will saves. A solid Will save, lack of knowledge of the target and making ones home on an another plane (and inside anti-divination protections) can pretty much make Scrying a non-factor for our assassin.

As Tonyz states Divinations such as Commune and Contact Other Plane (both of which appear on caster lists available to 10th level characters) are the real problems. Fortunately they rely on the players ability to ask smart questions as well as some GM fiat (Commune)/potential wrong answers (Contact Other Plane) to make things 'interesting' for those asking even smart questions.

Give the Assassin 'diplomatic' protections if not outright immunity from having to worry about things such as Zone of Truth or Discern Lies (or make getting permission to use such against the suspect part of the adventure).

Lots of good stuff for thought in this thread ... half of which appeared while I spend too much time typing :)

LazarX wrote:
Kayerloth wrote:

per the CRB:

Rods are scepter-like devices that have unique magical powers and do not usually have charges. Anyone can use a rod.

But not every rod is useful for everyone. I.e. metamagic rods in the hands of non-casters.

He he

Yeah but define 'use'

1) Barbarian waves his Metamagic Rod at the orcs while telling them in no uncertain terms he will 'turn them into a less than pleasant smelling dung heap if they don't do as he says RIGHT NOW! (and rolls for intimidate). Nice prop there AM SMASH the wizard pretender.

2) Nothing really says that a Metamagic Rod is of less sturdy construction than the norm (though I do tend to picture them with more baubles). Could still be used as a weapon by the fighter trying to take on a skeleton when he finds himself without a bludgeoning weapon.

I.e. less useful may indeed be a more accurate statement.

Mathius wrote:
I agree on SLAs and items that cast the spell but not items that create a constant effect similar to spell. Like magic weapon on sword or true see goggles.

If I'm following you I agree I believe the intent is for it to function against an item that 'casts' the spell not generally for it to function against something continuously active. Spellbane isn't going to stop a +3 flaming burst sword from functioning the way it would in an AMF ... it might however prevent its wielder from using its special purpose power to activate (i.e cast/SLA/command word into effect) a fire shield on the user 1/day.

All that said your GM is going to be the finale arbitrator on the issue.

And then there is the current thread(s) running on about the duration of things like a Hat of Disguise or a Ring of Invisibility and this leads into how you view Spellbane working (or not) against these items because of how they generate their effects (if one is going to be consistent anyway).

First thing that comes to my mind is if the gang is into protection and such things could get more expensive for the PC's. Shops the PC's frequent could add a 'cost' to things the PC's want to either because they've been told to do so or because the shopkeepers are being forced to pay a bit more for dealing with the PC's, perhaps some of both or even find that their 'room' at the Inn is now over the manure pile in the stables despite costing the same the last time they stayed there.

Perhaps the PC's catch the shopkeepers glancing at a Wringer before deciding the desired item is more expensive.

Gather Information and Knowledge Local checks may be effected again either by costing a bit more or folks simple don't want to be associated with the PC's because ... .

Likewise friendly NPCs could find themselves paying a bit in blood for associating with the PCs

As long as this portion is also not a problem:

The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level).

I'm not currently knowledgeable enough to know if a Mythic version of a spell alters its effective level. If a Mythic Haste is still a 3rd level spell then it should be doable as long as you pay any associated costs as MurphysParadox has stated.

No, Spellbane is only going to stop Greater Dispel Magic, not a Wish being used to duplicate the effect, nor will it stop Dispel Magic, Miracle or Limited Wish.

I would allow it to stop a Greater Dispel Magic generated by a SLA of a creature or one generated by a magic item since this would be the case for Spell Immunity/Greater Spell Immunity.

Then again I'm not sure I would allow Spellbane into my campaign (especially as is) ... it bothers me, the duration specifically. It would definitely carry a 'warning label' that it may find itself subject to change or banning, use at ones own risk.

Note the interaction with Detect Scrying. At that point it ceases to be a 'trap' and becomes a 'blast'/attack spell since it has a standard action casting time. Note also that all divination(scry) spells create a magical sensor that may be detected by anyone particularly those with good perception skills. Skill/Perception monkey says "Hey wizard we are being spied on." And Wizard 'blasts' back with Scry Trap. Not how I think you are envisioning the spell being used/employed or is it?

I'd probably up the casting time unless you wish it to be used in response to being Scryed upon rather than as a protective measure against scrying. Sepia Snake Sigil, Fire Trap and Glyph of Warding all have casting times of 10 minutes. My Loremaster tended to have Detect Scrying up at all times by the time he was 10th or so. This is why/how you know someone is scrying on you ... solid perception skills and/or Detect Scrying.

A very interesting concept for a spell in any case.

Edit: I just noticed the post was brought back to life by its OP. Probably long since decided what the cast time was I guessing ...

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per the CRB:

Rods are scepter-like devices that have unique magical powers and do not usually have charges. Anyone can use a rod.

Physical Description: Rods weigh approximately 5 pounds. They range from 2 feet to 3 feet long and are usually made of iron or some other metal. (Many, as noted in their descriptions, can function as light maces or clubs due to their hardy construction.) These sturdy items have AC 9, 10 hit points, hardness 10, and a break DC of 27.

Is this what you are asking for?

As Lord Vukodlak pointed out some adventures/encounters will have higher amounts and others will have skimpy amounts. Do you feel your characters have solid wealth for their level or are they complaining about feeling a lack? If not then I wouldn't worry overly about adding more. It's always easier to add more down the road if you feel the group is in fact getting underpowered in terms of wealth.

That said logically any items that do survive need to have a reason for surviving. Inherently they should be able to survive being inundated by a flood of gold. An Ioun stone that is floating over the destruction for example.

Or add the wealth after the 'completion' but before the next adventure. If so few folks enter and leave the City alive then have a sage (with an appropriate specialty) or someone similar approach the party with an offer to trade their story for "treasure". 'Obviously' this individual doesn't want the knowledge spread around as that would lessen its value to them since they are in the business of selling their knowledge.

372 - Not my idea but see the thread titled Plot Seed: the Last Girl.

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Any particular level?

Mage's Magnificent Mansion and anything or way to produce it daily (ninja's!!!).

More mundanely several hirelings, and a pack animal or two to carry, transport and set up a nice large tent etc. and do step and fetch for him.

Cubic Gate with one side keyed to open to ones own demiplane and well stocked with tomes and other sagely materials.

Ring Gates one end located at his favorite eating/drinking spot the other end, of course, where ever he is (and who says you can have only one set).

An Instant Fortress only reworked to provide an Instant 'Tower of Lore'.

Hand of the Mage - never have to get up again to retrieve a book or cup of hot toddy or ring the servants bell.

Necklace of Adaptation - never have to smell the muck and mud again never mind all that other stuff about breathing in vacuums and underwater.

First I would decide how much of a tangent I'm willing to throw into the ongoing campaign/story. As you said the first hurdle is deciding what plane they have been flung to. Then based on that I would decide where I might send them. And I would decide ahead of time where I would and would not send the PC(s).

Things to remember. Prismatic Spray (and its Plane Shift effect) allows both SR and a Will save. Stopping it from working in the first place is a good idea. The easiest is Dimensional Anchor but that isn't on the Inquisitor or Druid lists. Its also totally random and therefore easy enough to simply fudge the result assuming you don't make all your rolls in front of the party. Don't want the hassle they don't go anywhere and just hit them with something else on the PS list.

Next assuming you don't want a major divergence send them some where 'friendly' not someplace where the environment and creatures are likely hostile. And not in the middle of nowhere but where a quick scouting the shifted character can see a settlement where they might bargain for help (or serve as a major landmark for their companions to zero in on) or both.

Sending, Scrying and Greater Scrying all work (potentially) across planes.

I'm thinking Transport via Plants is supposed to work only on the same plane (along the lines of Greater Teleport) but strictly speaking it says the range is unlimited and only that it must be between the same sort of plant. So find the right plant and the Druid may be able to Transport either to or from the party or shifted character.

The shifted character now gains the Extraplanar subtype (almost all the time anyway). This means, for instance, he may be Banished, Dismissed or be subject to Holy Word (or its alignment base variants) and get sent voluntarily or otherwise back to his 'home' plane.

The more you are willing to go sandbox and off whatever story line you are currently in the more obstacles and barriers can be thrown up or add in to the encounter.

The Bald Man wrote:

I don't think wishing the lava would work. GM would probably invoke the conjuration rules that require the material be summoned on something capable of supporting it.

Looking at the Teleport Object I see 2 flaws. 1 is that it teleports objects away from you. And second, at caster level 21 it is only about 7 cubic-feet of lava = 2' cube.

And, of course, as 20th level Gold Draconic Sorcerer is IMMUNE to fire.

Yes but breathing (i.e. suffocation) if submerged in hardening lava is going to be an issue, as is moving away while encased in lava/rock.

Very sweet, love it.

Young girls 'waking' to find themselves tied up in sacks tend to scream and thrash. Last Girls do the same but at very inconvenient moments.

I for one would not put anyone I didn't implicitly trust in a Bag of Holding or Haversack. Might find they cut a hole in it to escape. Mundane sacks are not generally tightly constructed, tend to have small holes (i.e. peep holes) in them and are not sound proof (see above).
Last Girls with access to Silent, Still and Eschew might see being tied up inside a mundane sack as a wonderful hidey-hole from which to work mischief with minimal suspicion.

I might extend the House demiplane to a more vague point beyond the actual walls of the House allowing for some creepy/dangerous areas outside the actual House (Kennels, Outhouse, log pile, tool shed, family plot/cemetary, *cough* Gazebo's :p).

I might have fun if the characters did have extradimensional items of giving the House the special property to link extradimensional spaces to some similar small space within the House. Open a side pocket on the Haversack and find not only your stuff in there but some very memorable stuff from a cabinet in the kitchen of the House. And yes go check the cabinet and find your stuff sitting in said cabinet ... that ought to cut down on putting things in the Haversack especially if 'something' starts rearranging the things in the cabinet.

Also demiplanes are extradimensional spaces. Placing extradimensional spaces within one another is risky strictly speaking often leading to one of the spaces being locked away at minimum ... though I think having the result above is more fun for this encounter idea.

CRB, bolding mine wrote:
Demiplanes: This catchall category covers all extradimensional spaces that function like planes but have measurable size and limited access. Other kinds of planes are theoretically infinite in size, but a demiplane might be only a few hundred feet across. There are countless demiplanes adrift in reality, and while most are connected to the Astral Plane and Ethereal Plane, some are cut off entirely from the transitive planes and can only be accessed by well-hidden portals or obscure magic spells.


Don't dump my Wis score (On the other hand the difference between an 8 and a 12 is +2). Take Iron Will and if it seems I'm getting thumped often anyway consider taking Improved Iron Will. And well if I am the cleric/oracle/wizard etc. etc. I am not going to twiddle my thumbs while the party fighter, rogue etc. go and get dominated etc.. I am going to buff and select spells that insure my companions and myself continue to operate effectively.

Melkiador wrote:
137ben wrote:
Trolls can't fly!
Sounds like an excellent idea for a subrace.

I had a friend for whom it became a bit of an inside joke for him to run into variant trolls no matter which character he might be on or which of his other friends might be the GM.

Vegetarian Trolls
Flying, Fire-breathing Trolls
Giant Trolls (long before such actually appeared in the MM/official game)
Trolls immune to fire and acid
And, of course, any and all new variants as soon as they were published. He truly learned to hate trolls of any sort even if well dressed, well spoken and very civilized :p.

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