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Greater Spell Immunity if you can access it somehow offers protection for 10 min/lvl.

Or, of course, just be prepared to come back quickly. There's no text in the spells saying you stay Dismissed or Banished for some minimum time. (unlike Holy Word, Word of Chaos etc.)

If the DM really is likely to play that trick often I'd also learn which spells you need to worry about: Dismissal, Banishment, Dispel "Alignment", Word of "Alignment" come to mind right off.


Don't believe there's a utterly clear answer to the question.

I've never had the issue crop up in game. I'd lean strongly towards no you can't 'resume' concentrate later. You've essentially 'ceased' concentrating immediately and resuming or starting to concentrating later is not specifically allowed by the wording of the spell and I wouldn't generally give a spell an ability that it doesn't specifically grant in the description without a really good reason. This isn't like having to create a ruling, for example, about how long one could concentrate on a spell to keep it active (before passing out from lack of sleep or hunger or whatever).


Nor would I. Ditto for Anti-magic field or any similar type abjuration spell.


Lincoln Hills wrote:

... snip ...

Also, I'm surely not the only one who saw the 'blip in and out of the Astral' aspect of teleportation as a nice way to mess with players?

Nope you aren't.

Hence my recommendation to take a peek at the Midnight campaign setting not so much to use but to see some of the consequences of cutting off access to the Astral. If you want to travel rapidly via magic you'll be Shadow Walking (or otherwise using the Plane of Shadow).


Totally agree with the above ... I always tried to draw my maps to avoid such issues. But that's the GM's call as long as they are prepared for weird shape walls they certainly tend to feel and look more real when mapped out.

Or your GM could freak you out by having you enter a dungeon where everything does have grid marks and maybe even numbers and letters for the x,y and z coordinates :p


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Level 1 Commoner wrote:
That's exactly why I'm asking. We are starting the 5th book of a certain AP soon, where the opposition consists almost entirely of Vampires. Although I'm rewriting the plot extensively, my group will face lots of them. And having a certain weapon from the 4th book of this AP in the right hands, means 3-4 Will saves with a 5% success rate per round if our cleric gets his full-round-attacks going. As I really despise those emo bloodsuckers, I have absolutely no problem, if my group goes full-Blade-mode. But I want to be sure, that my interpretation is correct.

Yep that would be the interpretation I'd go with. Depending on how "Blade-like" you want to get you might even use your mighty GM powers and up the Will save DC a bit as even with 4 swings a round it's going to be a few rounds between 'piles of ash' happening if the vampire saves on a 2+. Or even go with something in between where vs vampire spawn rather than the 'sire" you increase the effective DC so the spawn go "poof" even a bit easier than they normally would.

And yes Kobold Cleaver is correct that is what I meant by " ... and then you keep swinging ... "


I'd look into one of the E6 or E8 or E(whatever level you like to cap off abilities) as that seems to be more where your comfort or 'fun' point is.

Or

Take a look at the Midnight campaign setting ... not so much to use the setting but for what happens when you cut off access to the Astral Plane. No teleporting, no summoning things from the outer planes. Any outer planar creature that were present when the 'Severing' occurred (from the Astral) is stranded etc. Hopefully some thoughts to use there.
As I recall outerplanar access was also limited on Athas, the world of the Dark Sun campaign as well but I don't recall teleport not working though magic itself was a bit hazardous (illegal) to use in general for the 'good guys'. I also don't think the level and amount of magic in Athas sounds like it would fit the bill very well for you. Midnight on the otherhand might have more to offer as a model along those lines.

I also like some of StreamOfTheSky's thoughts on how tweak the Teleport spells, might even be tempted to add in some incorporeal effects to those rounds while transport is occurring as well to mitigate some of the danger to escaping while preserving some of the danger that has been added. The only issue for me here is I've never really seen fantasy teleporting (vs Star Trek/SF transport) depicted as anything but more or less "BAMFF!" and you're there.


I've always treated it like #2 above placing it like any other wall on the map ideally along the grid line but if not then treating any creature occupying the space like I would if it was a normal brick and mortar wall located along a diagonal (and probably squeezing anyone entering the square containing the wall)

As to your 2) >> If they were there the previous round and took damage at that time I'd probably not hit them again with damage unless they were still there after their turn was finished. Basically the Wall and the remaining frigid air could only effect them once each full turn.


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That's what I read from it. Of course most vampires are liable to giggle a bit at a DC 14 Will save in my experience ... the first time anyway then you keep swinging and they get a little antsy (and decide playing Russian roulette with some chump wielding a disrupting weapon is something they'd rather quit playing).


Hmmm an interesting thread but here's a thought:

Lich? Okay I realize that even a lich was a "young" lich at some point but when was the last time your party came up against a lich that wasn't centuries old ... True Resurrection has a limit of 10 years/caster level. At 20th level you had better be facing a newbie lich or dealing with the GM's storyline about stopping Prince Ebil from becoming a lich. And don't mess with my storyline.

And I'm with Berinor you can't use TR to get a crusty old vampire again ... it will turn the dust or vampire or lich (take your pick) and try and turn it into a healthy new human (or elf, orc, troll, halfing, whatever). The catch being most intelligent undead like Vampires and Liches are quite happy with their current condition and all you'll do is make them very cross with you for attempting to bring them back to life.

It's also clear as a muddy creek after a heavy rainstorm but this is a 9th level spell, you don't even need a corpse or the dusty fragments of one to 'target' it with TR just unambiguously identify the subject somehow so I'm thinking the spell doesn't really care if the lich (if you are even aware it is a lich) is destroyed, just undead or even on the same plane at the time you cast the spell (range is not relevant) but he'll know you cast TR (or figure it out rather quickly) and unless he's crazy insane and therefore somehow willing, the spell will fail and he'll be even more ready when you show up (casters throwing TR ought to be exceedingly rare and considered a major threat to any remotely rational lich).


By RAW no, a caster has full use of his Dexterity including bonuses to AC while casting. He's still mobile, can still move anywhere within his square (duck fully behind the pillar or kneel behind the table etc. that's in his square) and likely can still take a 5 ft step. Instead the game requires Concentration checks which are modified if you are hit while concentrating on a casting a spell. Casting a spell with a CT of a round or longer (particularly longer) leaves you far more vulnerable to being attacked and forced to make a concentration check.

Edit afterthought:
By saying he's mobile I mean he is as mobile as anyone else using a full round action such as a the fighter not moving because he is full attacking the dragon or an archer letting loose on the opposing caster. Would you deny the Archer or Fighter his Dex just because they elected to not move and full attack?


Zeromage wrote:
How do you GMs deal with teleporting? I find it incredibly frustrating and overpowered. Do you think it's unfair to just ban all teleporting spells?

What is it about Teleport that is frustrating you and making it feel overpowered? Is the party bypassing planned encounters that would otherwise occur along the way to the 'dungeon'? Are they bypassing lots of travel and 'dungeon' encounters with scry and fry tactics to go directly to the BBEG/end encounter? Other?


For what purpose?

Personally I'll take Fly for combat (speed and less vulnerable to wind speeds etc) and Air Walk for getting around terrain in an encounter area, especially an outdoor one (+1 for communal to help the party get around).
For traveling about the 'world' in general Overland Flight for me or a Flying Carpet for the party.

But in general I'd take either over hoofing it about for comfort, tactical and strategic reasons.


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Really comes down to what the fortification is expected to defend against and what the fort is supposed to be protecting.

What is its purpose? Is it to defend a select few individuals, a lord, his family and a few others ... or is it to defend a city and the surrounding countryside or something else entirely?

What level of magic is the fort (and its defenders) expected to withstand? A fight against foes using 2nd level spells is a very different thing from defending against foes using 9th level spells.

Disintegrate, Dispel and Disjunction will shred an awful lot of "permanent" magical defenses. Walls of any sort whether Force or mundane hardened and worked stone won't last long if the opposing side has multiple disintegrates available. Dimensional Lock or Anchor meet Greater Spell Immunity.


Shimesen wrote:

so, David knott 242, you think that is is perfectly legal to fire an arrow that is +2 flaming burst, shocking burst, icy burst, corrosive burst from a +1 adaptive, bane, conductive, cruel, speed, igniting bow?

thats a bit or a stretch to say that everything listed is now applied...

I think by the time a campaign has reached this point the DM will know what his answer to this question will be. For me I'd say go for it ... but I also might have issues with a Flaming Burst combined with Icy Burst etc. (as in that portion of footnote #4 that talks about "an ability incompatible with an ability that you've already rolled" and other similar diametrical abilities. But that really isn't the question here as I'm fairly sure one could come up with a combo of abilities not remotely conflicting if desired. You've effectively got a 'Epic' or 'Mythic' weapon listed and I'd treat it as such and have a little talk with the player if they were attempting to create such a combination to bypass the intent of the rules. If they found such as treasure well that would be my fault and I'll have to be more careful and let the player have some temporary fun with his superweapon till those arrows all get used.


Generally the groups I've been in used someone stealthy to scout ahead. I generally found that while knowledges might be useful a high perception and ability to describe what was seen worked well for when the scout(s) did not recognize or have the appropriate knowledge allowing them to relay it to the group for someone more expert. On my Loremaster I frequently backed up the rogue scouting ahead if the situation appeared 'sketchy' by using Arcane Eye, Clairvoyance or Prying Eyes/Greater Prying Eyes. I'd watch him (and was often telepathically bonded as well) and he'd be the actually point man unless we knew enough about what was ahead to know it would place him at too great a risk of discovery (which given his stealth was rare particularly with buffs like heroism/greater heroism added on). I also ran Detect Scrying 24-7 which largely shut down the foes trying the same on us (using magical sensors).


42) Stampede
43) Parade
44) Flood
45) Shortage of "_______"
46) Newly collapsed structure
47) Wildfire
48) A lost child
49) A lost pet
50) Rose or other flower garden
51) Escaped 'zoo' creature
52) Toy shop


52. The window has been fixed.
53. "Heard there's an evil cult based here"
54. You need a reason?


Oh my ...

That's one that falls under GM overruling/fiat for me then because I'm thinking "focusing divine power" and "channeled energy" are about as synonymous as one can get


One problem I see with Tels idea for Shadows and a dead magic plane ... their special abilities are (Su) and hence won't work for them in a dead magic area anymore than the parties items, spells, etc., so no Strength Drain, no spawn creation. It'll be a standoff at best not Shadows squash APL 30 (or whatever) party. Otherwise definitely ups the difficulty of getting to the inner most demi-plane fortress.

Can't normally link or use Mind Blank as a companion to Hallow ... though given that's a list of Mythic beyond 20th type stuff I'm not sure how pertinent that is. You can normally link Dimensional Anchor to Hallow however.

Or rather than go with Planar trait Dead Magic go with Sentient plus Morphic to the will of the plane itself.

Sequester is a very potent 'lets hide this' spell (from either remote or direct observation). One could debate whether even Discern Location defeats Sequester and even if you say yes you still need to have physically touched the object previously for Discern Object to work. Build a front door over your portal to the plane letting no one else see or touch it ... then hit it with Sequester. Bonus points for your Sentient Plane keeping access to the door/portal always walled away for "Maaasster".


Diego Rossi wrote:

Or the "common" trap involving disjunction and 20 enervations rays that is always in the same location of the BEEG.

I suppose even his latrine is trapped that way.

Nah the latrine is a highly Advance Mimic just waiting for someone to sit down ... for lunch.


williamoak wrote:
Still interested in this. I'm especially looking for notable methods of locking down teleportation/plane shift and other kinds of dimensional travel. I know about "teleport trap", but I'm looking for other inhibitors as well.

False Vision (1 hour/level) Scrying sees what you want them to see as per Major Image. Further while the spell is ongoing you may concentrate to change the image. For those scrying there is no save or SR they'll see your illusion. Really makes folks reluctant to Teleport if they think it into a safe area to teleport and it's really not.

Screen (24 hours) a False Vision that fools direct observation as well. Only direct viewing allows even a chance for a save.

Secrecy (as Cap. Darling points out) is your friend. If the folks trying to divine/scry the interior do not know the layout then using things like clairvoyance becomes very problematic. Trying to clairvoy beyond the "obvious" location of the other side of the gate at the entrance won't work if the area is magically darkened. Thick or lead lined/inpregnated walls block most 'Detect' spells and many divinations as well as things like Passwall or Phase Doors. A Magic Mouth could be set in the darkened area to be triggered if the darkness goes away (and Magic Mouth is permanent until triggered). Spells such as Mage's Private Sanctum, of course, block spells of the scrying subschool. All this makes any attempt at "Scry and Fry" or just plain teleporting to a quiet local inside the area difficult and dangerous if not outright impossible. Note that both Deeper Darkness and Invisibility Purge can be 'companion' spells linked to Hallow/Unhallow areas. As a GM I also tend to assume the PC's can and will find a way in even if it is by brute force multiple Disintegrates or simply digging ... and try to focus as much if not more effort on my inhabitants learning of the PCs entry/breaching and successfully getting the alarm out (and bringing all heck to bear on them as a result). And mix the defenses up using both mundane things like passwords and thick walls as well as the various magical things mentioned so as to avoid the PCs using one or two spells to negate all the defense. For example, casting True Sight or Greater Prying Eyes and simply blowing right past all the illusory defenses. False doors over walls with Symbols or Glyphs. Keep in mind that most scry type spells create magical sensors and those sensors can be seen with successful perception checks (DC=20+spell level of scrying spell) nevermind things like Detect Scrying.

Quicklings make for an interesting guard ... insanely fast, natural invisibility, evasion. Have it avoid combat to focus on getting the alarm spread while teaming it with some hulking brute(s) meant to SMASH anything trying to stop it from moving off and maybe you'll get to see the APL 15+ party use their nastiest high level magics trying to stop the CR 3, 18 hp Quickling rather than the Hulk in the room. I know when I ran into this we pretty much tried to ignore the Mountain Giant breathing down on us to keep that Quickling from getting out the door to alert the entire dungeon full of Giants that they had unannounced guests.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
seebs wrote:

Interesting question. RAW, obviously, any creature which would otherwise provide flanking continues to do so when invisible.

But it does seem that the defender's perceptions ought to be relevant to whether or not flanking occurs, since it's supposed to represent distraction or some such, and if you don't know someone's there, how can they be distracting to you? So, being invisible might not remove flanking, but if you hadn't been detected yet, it would seem odd for you to give flanking. Logically. Obviously, the rules ignore this and probably should.

Just because you can't see them doesn't mean you don't know they are there.

Hence the second to last sentence is Seebs post:

"So, being invisible might not remove flanking, but if you hadn't been detected yet, it would seem odd for you to give flanking."

Or yes you are aware and hence distracted, trying to locate or keep track of the invisible foe ... or you are oblivious to their presence. Of course the flip side is you are oblivious hence neither being invisible or the fact your foe is flanking is likely to change your activity until you are aware of their presence. Unless you are paranoid and just tend to assume there are invisible foes everywhere and act accordingly :p


It's also a cantrip, a zero level spell which makes any spell level costs half that of a 1st level spell where magic item creation is concerned. If I was going to make anything permanent (with the attendant risk of getting dispelled) I'd go with Arcane Sight (I did in fact do just that on my Loremaster). Note that the permanent version of either Detect Magic or Arcane Sight may only be Dispelled by a caster of higher level. While BBEG boss types tend to be just that (higher level) it does mean that his Lts and the minions etc. most likely can not get lucky and do so with a 'lucky roll'. I'd also say, in general, the BBEG is likely not targeting Detect Magic specifically. You've presumably got several much more 'irritating' buffs running of higher level he might target or he's got several higher level spells to check/dispel prior to getting to your Detect Magic reducing the risk of it getting randomly dispelled (And that would be one advantage of Detect Magic vs the higher level Arcane Sight).


Rynjin wrote:
"Yo, sup, I need some help with somethin' so I was wonderin' if you might lend an ear for a bit, aight?"

Urban Ranger archtype?


First you need to Scry, that's not automatic and involves a Will save. Failed save equals no viewed once/no teleport and since the victim felt the effect of magic when they made the save you've just alerted your foe somethings going on. Next any scry subschool spell (including Scry itself) creates a magical invisible sensor which can be seen by any creature making a DC 20+spell level Perception check (or 24 in the case of Scry). That's a flat and fixed Perception check that doesn't scale. Eventually the foes are going to make that check with a fair degree of reliability and once again "GRATZ!" you've just alerted the BBEG and further given them an idea of what they might expect next. And then there is all the magic/spells out there that can mess with the tactic. A couple of big ones are Detect Scrying (duration is 1 day so its very likely to be employed at all times by anyone capable of it) and False Vision (duration 1 hr/level). Teleporting after viewing an area so protected is probably a very bad idea ... of course you don't likely know you've just done so. Neither of these spells are of particularly high level relative to when folks are likely to be using Scry and Fry tactics. And of course there are the various mundane means of blocking divination and scry magic mention up thread. And that doesn't even start to cover the ways of blocking the actual attempt to Teleport (or otherwise defend against) plus the fact that roughly 1 in 4 times it simply doesn't work (assuming a viewed once status) regardless of defenses (or lack of) in place to mess with the tactic.

Quite frankly if all the above is in place and accounted for and a party can still manage to succeed with Scry and Fry I'm thinking they deserve the success, need to be prepared to see it used on them and probably explains why I've seen it used more circumstantially rather than as a routine tactic.

If anything I'd be more concerned as a GM on how long one needs to view the area remotely vie scrying to qualify for viewed once. And that likely depends upon the circumstances of the campaign ... an obvious landmark vs something much less observable at a glance. And again the longer your sensor is sitting there allowing one to view the area the longer anyone in the area might note the sensor (or pass by the area and note the sensor).


Teleporting to a location viewed once by Scrying works by RAW, for me it also works by RAI and my own games as well. Heck one of the most memorable Teleports (and events in a game overall) I've ever had was from using Detect Scrying to view the person Scrying our party, grabbing my companions while saying in character "trust me" and the 3 of us teleported and dropped in on our scrier much to his surprise. My Loremaster has had Detect Scrying on his daily long term buffs for many, many levels just to make scrying him and his party hazardous for anyone trying to gain info or use scry and fry tactics against us.


Heh it's a wizard ... he can access and use Still Spell especially if the goal is AC. Could drop him in the Paladins +5 Adamantine Plate Armor and +5 Adamantine Tower Shield at that point and he'd cast just fine even if most of his spell list was 'shifted' upward a level effectively. Of course given the typical wizards strength score actually moving across the room might be a challenge, but that's okay he can start each encounter casting Still Bull Strength and Still Monstrous Physique II and gain +8 to strength (and +4 Nat Arm) :p ...


Quote:
Essentially, is the usual route that the Wis-monster classes steer clear of maxing their Perception so that the lower-Wis classes have something to spot?

No, as Mysterious Stranger said, clerics and druids simply don't have the skill points in most builds to keep taking ranks in Perception. And in my experience the trapfinder also tends to be the one with ranks (and items) devoted to Disabling as well. So in the early levels a cleric will have a decent total mod to Perception. But two things tend to occur from that point onward. First the Rog or other Trapfinder will tend to put an ever increasing amount of points into gaining ranks that the cleric is not likely to be matching (or it's costing them caster levels to gain the skill points to keep up). Second the clerics preferences in magic item choice(s) is less likely to see further boosts in Perception (outside of a +Wis item) when compared to the Rog or Trapfinder. A single +5 Perception item is more of a boost than gaining +6 to Wis would be for the cleric (and +Wis is about the only thing a cleric is typically going to acquire that adds to Perception). And by mid levels the Rogues trapfinding ability is mostly cancelling out the clerics higher Wis. At 10th level, for example, the Rog has a +5 to both Perception and Disable the cleric can't match due to his class ability: trapfinding (That's a potential 10 pts worth of Wis cancelled out).

Now could you build a cleric, druid or other divine caster to be your Trapfinder and Disabler ... I'm going to hazard that the answer is yes, but it is hardly the typical cleric, druid etc. character build.


A lot, if not most, of it depends on your own personal vision and the needs of the adventure and story.

What does an Efreet eat? What do visitors to the City of Brass eat? Are there other visitors/travelers and where do they congregate? Perhaps there are importers of fresh fruit or an inn full of planar travelers all eating 'exotic' iced dishes fresh out of Innkeeper Szizzles magical icebox (an attraction natives and non-natives alike travel miles to see). Maybe the players run into a sign that says "Wall Drug 2257 miles and one planar gate" with a big arrow pointing thataway ... have fun with it.

For any who don't follow that reference -> http://www.walldrug.com/
or -> http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2216

MDCityNIGHT wrote:
What kinds of animals live in the Plane of Fire that can be used as food?

A more standard direct answer is there are none ... animals are normally native only to the prime material plane or outer planes with similar 'terrestrial' environments. On most other planes what you get at best are analogs of those animal that won't provide sustenance to prime material planar travelers i.e Shadow Deer or Magma Deer, they'll look like a deer, act like deer but don't have normal flesh that one could eat.


Starglim wrote:
Teleport wrote:

“Seen casually” is a place that you have seen more than once but with which you are not very familiar.

..
“False destination” is a place that does not truly exist or if you are teleporting to an otherwise familiar location that no longer exists as such or has been so completely altered as to no longer be familiar to you. When traveling to a false destination, roll 1d20+80 to obtain results on the table, rather than rolling d%, since there is no real destination for you to hope to arrive at or even be off target from.
If the location has just changed by moving furniture around, "Seen casually" is probably the appropriate row.

And/or take into account where in the room the player states they choose to teleport ... in the space next to the door is much more unlikely to have anything placed there regardless of how much the furniture is rearranged, for example. And, of course, things might be frightfully more interesting if the door has been barricaded against attackers or the room is simply on fire :p). Personally I tend to use this sort of thing to remind my players that Teleportation does have its risks while introducing a bit of fun into an otherwise 'routine procedure'.


Charlie Bell wrote:

You couldn't scry on, say, "a random person near Sandpoint" just to get a teleport fix.

You could, however, scry on "the mayor of Sandpoint." You're out of luck if Sandpoint doesn't have a mayor--you might get a false destination in that case--but assuming she fails her saving throw, you're going to view Sandpoint Mayor Kendra Deverin.

But if you've seen a location, even through scry, you can teleport there. The chance of failure in that case is not insignificant, however.

And that's not considering any difficulties that might arise from an armed party teleporting into the mayor's office or residence.

I'll point out that in addition to all the other potential hiccups there is absolutely no guaranty that said Mayor (or whoever you scry) is actually in Sandpoint/where you want to go when you scry them. Maybe it works and you scry the mayor. The mayor along with anyone else in the vicinity is oblivious to the scry sensor ... or not so much perhaps ;) and the Teleport is accurate without mishap ... and you are down the road in the next town over but don't recognize it as such, of course, since you've never been there either ... etc. etc.. Really depends on as a GM how much you want to deal with (or dis/encourage) this method (teleporting specifically to places the PC's have never been to/"seen once") of travel by the party. It could rapidly turn into a major diversion from whatever the PCs were doing with any and all consequences involved. Might be just the thing to shake up a sandbox type campaign ... or really sidetrack that carefully planned and timed adventure the PCs were on.


And nothing says you can't simply start easy mode. If its to be combat make the encounter one you are fairly sure they will win even if the foes roll 20's and your PCs act relatively stupidly. Over time as you gain confidence in both judging the difficulty of the foe and just what the PCs are capable of slowly ramp it up till you reach the happy point for you and your group.


Maklak wrote:

> Hit Points have been a "per encounter" resource for a long, long time already.

What?! DnD is an attrition game, hps don't auto-heal unless your party has rings of regeneration.

Depends an awful lot on the campaign style and GM. Cure Light Wound wands are relatively cheap particularly if party members do the crafting. Then there's the whole 15 minute adventuring day. Either will tend to make attrition very difficult. Any curing items with no limits will make attrition go from difficult to near impossible as a GM tool.

Quote:

> Bottomless Skillet

There already is an item like that, I think.

Yes there is "Sustaining Spoon"

Quote:

> Lesser Healer’s Sphere

This is great. No CMD check, co charges, no nothing. Just auto-heal any number of people after a combat. Very overpowered in my opinion, but not quite on a level with a lyre of building. The greater versions aren't really worth it, I think.
Okay you and I have very different ideas of "overpowered" though I guess I haven't seen someone with a serious Perform (stringed instrument) skill working for hours on end building a small town either.


Pupsocket wrote:

Hit Points have been a "per encounter" resource for a long, long time already.

But yeah, the Greater Healing Sphere doesn't really bring anything to the table to justify the greater cost. The greater version should probably cast CLW AND Lesser restoration at will.

Yeah given "Happy Sticks aka Cure Light Wound wands" availability in many campaigns this would be true ... something in my opinion that is a problematic downside to easy crafting and 'magic shop' existence. Still one can burn through CLW wands in a big hurry and they still do cost you on an ongoing basis. With no usage limits at all the ongoing cost is zero and even more problematic.

Edit: i.e. there's a reason Cure Minor Wounds (as trivial as the amount healed was) disappeared when 0 level spells became an unlimited resource.


bfobar wrote:
If we weren't using game mechanics for damage, I would say that the DC to copy any spell from the old spell book to the new is increased by 5 or 10, and any failure indicates that the page in the old book is ruined beyond reading from sitting in ex-wizard stew.

If I were of a mind to allow a result other than "toast" I'd probably second this general idea (bumping the DC). And you mentioned he has cantrip access so depending on your view point Mending may be of some benefit in at least rendering the writing intelligible enough to allow him to decipher and copy into a new spell book if not outright allowing him to repair it. Note also that Read Magic doesn't need to be in a spell book to be memorized and automatically deciphers another wizards arcane writings (such as in a spellbook) Further even if deciphered the reader still needs a Spellcraft check each time they use the 'foreign' spellbook no matter how many times they have previously and successfully used the spell book.

CRB->Arcane Magical Writings:

To record an arcane spell in written form, a character uses complex notation that describes the magical forces involved in the spell. The writer uses the same system no matter what her native language or culture. However, each character uses the system in his own way. Another person's magical writing remains incomprehensible to even the most powerful wizard until he takes time to study and decipher it.

To decipher an arcane magical writing (such as a single spell in another's spellbook or on a scroll), a character must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spell's level). If the skill check fails, the character cannot attempt to read that particular spell again until the next day. A read magic spell automatically deciphers magical writing without a skill check. If the person who created the magical writing is on hand to help the reader, success is also automatic.

Once a character deciphers a particular piece of magical writing, he does not need to decipher it again. Deciphering magical writing allows the reader to identify the spell and gives some idea of its effects (as explained in the spell description). If the magical writing is a scroll and the reader can cast arcane spells, he can attempt to use the scroll.
Wizard Spells and Borrowed Spellbooks

A wizard can use a borrowed spellbook to prepare a spell he already knows and has recorded in his own spellbook, but preparation success is not assured. First, the wizard must decipher the writing in the book (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Once a spell from another spellcaster's book is deciphered, the reader must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level) to prepare the spell. If the check succeeds, the wizard can prepare the spell. He must repeat the check to prepare the spell again, no matter how many times he has prepared it before. If the check fails, he cannot try to prepare the spell from the same source again until the next day. However, as explained above, he does not need to repeat a check to decipher the writing.


Dot, dot


Any restriction on frequency of use (charges or times/day etc.) for the Healing Spheres ... I didn't see one which would make them very desirable and powerful. (As in a group should 'rarely be less than full health after each encounter' powerful if they possess one.) It would also mean that except in combat there is very little effective difference between the Lesser and Greater Spheres. Both could heal most parties to full in a several minutes making the extra cost of the Greater Sphere vs the Lesser rather exorbitant by comparison. The more limited the usage the more powerful by comparison the Greater Healing Sphere becomes.

Headband of Sending, again a lack of limit on version A could be problematic. In theory, as written, a group of 5 could be in Telepathic contact 24-7 with the "on command" activation. For comparison the permanent version of Telepathic Bond would be 50,000 for linking 5 creatures together.


A few favorites from past campaigns:

  • Shambling Mounds and any other creature that uses electrical attacks (Will O Wisp for instance)
  • Iron Golems and fire/fire creatures
  • Mimics pretending to be things other than treasure chests ... such as a row boat/ferry across an underground lake
  • Mummies and brown mold
  • Beholders and any otherwise safe flooring over deadly things like magma (Disintegrate the floor and ouch)
  • invisible Rust Monsters (bonus if anything makes ranged engagement tricky or near impossible)
  • Hag covens (levels in caster class(es) a plus)
  • Aquatic Trolls in water filled rooms/environments


epic vs non-epic cost tangent:
d20srd.org, Epic Magic Items wrote:

While not truly an artifact, the epic magic item is a creation of such power that it surpasses other magic items. Epic magic items are objects of great power and value. The following are typical characteristics of an epic magic item. In general, an item with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item.

  • Grants a bonus on attacks or damage greater than +5.
  • Grants an enhancement bonus to armor higher than +5.
  • Has a special ability with a market price modifier greater than +5.
  • Grants an armor bonus of greater than +10 (not including magic armor’s enhancement bonus).
  • Grants a natural armor, deflection, or resistance bonus greater than +5.
  • Grants an enhancement bonus to an ability score greater than +6.
  • Grants an enhancement bonus on a skill check greater than +30.
  • Mimics a spell of an effective level higher than 9th.
  • Has a caster level above 20th.
  • Has a market price above 200,000 gp, not including material costs for armor or weapons, material component- or experience point-based costs, or additional value for intelligent items.

An epic magic item that grants a bonus beyond those allowed for normal magic items has a higher market price than indicated by the formulas for non-epic items.

Epic magic items are not artifacts. They are not unique, though they are certainly very rare, and anyone with the proper item creation feats can build them. Even an epic magic item can never grant a dodge bonus, and the maximum inherent bonus that can be applied to an ability score is +5. An epic magic item cannot be created that uses or mimics an epic spell. A major artifact might be able to mimic such a spell, however.

For somewhat obvious reasons the 3.5E PHB and DMG when published had no such rules or any mention of "price caps" or at least one item in the DMG, the Staff of Power, would be "epic".

Far as I can tell outside of the rules in the ELH and other 'post 20 rules' there is no cap on costs, no mention of 200,000gp value or other numeric cost limit(s) ... why would there be as for the purposes of those rule sets there isn't any post 20 play to worry about such issues.


- Haste you listed perhaps Blessing of Fevor.
- My Archer liked to combine Divine Favor with Divine Power
- Bit high like Mind Blank but Protection from Spells is about as much +resistance as my Epic Loremaster could eke out from non-epic spells/items, even with a +5 cloak that's another +3.
- Other high level spells: Foresight (insight bonus) and, of course, Moment of Prescience (also insight).
- Spell Immunity and all similar (i.e. greater and communal versions)
- Holy Aura and similar (again a bit high but ... )
- my Loremaster usually had on hand Greater Magic Weapon. His thinking was you never knew when you might suddenly need a +5 (name weird special material/type) weapon or somehow get stripped of magic weapons and need fast replacement. ("Yes, yes we do have an +5 obsidian khopesh to beat the regeneration.")
- Status, The I don't care what the terrain and concealment/visibility looks like I know where my companions are spell. Or that special someone you have to protect but wants to do the 'slip away from their bodyguards trope' spell. Possible to use on foes as well but does have range touch (and a save).


True story my Epic Loremaster once melted (for lack of better description) an epic Mind Flayer. Round 1 - 3 Acid Arrows , round - 2 3 more Acid Arrows, round 3 more Acid Arrows (started using a Wand at this point as I recall, joined by another arcane caster) ... 'Halp halp I'm melting', said said Mind Flayer, 'Unfair I have silly amounts of SR!'. We're going to need a bucket to collect this loot :p

I never quite gave into the temptation to demonstrate to our GM why the various Orb spells might be a bit overpowering though this Mind Flayers SR made it really tempting.


Conversion issues?

The 3.5 Tarrasque (d20srd.org) list the Bite as: Bite +57 melee (4d8+17/18-20/×3) and lists one of the Special Abilities as Augmented critical

d20srd Augmented Critical (Ex) wrote:

The tarrasque’s bite threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 18-20, dealing triple damage on a successful critical hit.

Take that and drop Improved Critical into the mix. (which this version of Tarrasque did not have).

And good grief look at all those ninja's


Yep its actually less spelled out in the PF than it was in 3.5 which had a whole page dedicated to the topic (pg 58 PHB)

In addition to what Drakkiel found there's this as well

from the CRB Prestige Classes wrote:
Prestige classes allow characters to become truly exceptional, gaining powers beyond the ken of their peers. Unlike the core classes, characters must meet specific requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. If a character does not meet the requirements for a prestige class before gaining any benefits of that level, that character cannot take that prestige class. Characters that take levels in prestige classes do not gain any favored class bonuses for those levels


I'd consider adding if for no other reason than to add some variety to a 'generic' list that could then be rapidly narrowed down. Start with 8 and cross 4 off, for example, for a more rapidly generated and varied list or to generate a list for a more specific function(ary):

Cantrip
- Arcane Mark, useful for making many other utility spells either work or work better (Locate Object, Scry or Instant Summons as examples).
- Mending, useful after your cup of coffee or 'pet' damages your last couple hours work. Mostly redundant if you also have Make Whole but endless supply owing to it being a cantrip.
- Message, for when you are tired of yelling out to the next room full of scribes (or courtiers) that you want to talk to "Bob" Also works 'through' several scrying type spells.

First
- Peacebond, not CRB but ... lots of potential flavor. "No one gets within 30 feet of Her Majesty without one!" (Concept screams for a higher level version able to 'peacebond' your average higher level group with one casting - one weapon per level or creature per level)
- Unseen Servant, many obvious step and fetch uses.
- Shield, if there are commonly lists with "Magic Missile" stands to reason they'll be 'lists' with a spell designed to block it.
- Detect Secret Doors, again role oriented. Is this a 'detective' or 'bodyguard' npc, for instance.
- Floating Disc, hauling whatever around for whatever engineering project.

Second
- Knock, if there's folks using Arcane Lock they'll be folks using Knock to bypass it. So does the characters role make him the Warder or the one getting around the Wards?
- See Invisibility, particularly if they haven't got Permanency to make this available all the time.

Third
Starting to really get lots of options depending on the role or function the npc caster actually fulfills within the campaign.
- Nondetection, especially effective if you are one of the higher level wizards around (i.e. the old retired adventure type)
- Phantom Steed, need to get somewhere fast but for whatever reason Teleport isn't available or doesn't work. Except in very mountainous terrain it's likely much faster than Overland Flight and, of course, not a personal spell either.
- Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, potential use as rapid communication if both ends are known points and can use the spell.
- Illusory Script, should be on any spies list.
- Secret Page, much like Illusory Script.

Fourth
- Scry, there's a reason there's Detect Scrying.

Fifth
Mage's Private Sanctum, on your list but thought I'd point out the synergy and usefulness of Secure Shelter+Mage's Private Sanctum for an on the go anywhere you currently are and need a secure meeting space.
- Telepathic Bond, particularly if the Permanent version with another individual or two is employed. Pretty near the ultimate, on the same plane, communication spell.
- False Vision, a potent mess with any potential scryer information gathering. Few things are worse the no information, one of them is disinformation.
- Seeming, more or less a communal version of Disguise Self with a 12 hour duration. "No, no sir I didn't see any such group of elves pass here recently."
- Overland Flight, does the npc regularly need to travel or just need to get at the top shelf in the scriptorium?
- Permanency, so many utilitarian spells can be made permanent and hence not need memorizing any more including several spells previously listed. Doesn't necessarily need to be on the memorized list but occasionally assuming a slot was or is in use for Permanency might be a good idea.

Sixth
- Repulsion, particularly if it is one caster vs many lesser level/HD foes (and presumed low, relative to the DC, Will saves), doubly so if not wishing to inflict harm on said foes (like an angry mob commoners).
- Analyze Dweomer, another potent divination spell.
- Contingency, much like Permanency mentioned more to remind one to occasionally leave a slot open to account for its usage as most higher level arcane casters (particularly any retired "adventurer" types) will access this spell.
- Quest/Geas, Isn't this what high level casters do to us not so retired adventurer types? :p
- Veil, now the composition of the group of can whatever they want.

Seventh
- Sequester, need to hide something this is the spell to be using. Probably needs a FAQ (and or errata) but it's quite possible to interpret that even Discern Location doesn't beat this spell as the wordings of both spells tend to defeat the other. But most of the things our retired wizard is trying to hide probably don't routinely have Discern Location being used against it either (and likewise it's probably overkill to use Sequester to hide it but ...).
- Instant Summons, need something you generally don't want to keep on hand but might want it NOW this is the spell to use.
- Phase Door, can be made permanent.
- Limited Wish, I wouldn't be without this one (or at least access to it when desired). Any 4th level or lower spell regardless of class, school, prohibitions etc. is yours to duplicate and potentially upwards to 6th level spells. Tack on what's allowed by the last two bullet points in the spell description and you have one very versatile (albeit expensive) spell.

Eighth
- Mind Blank
- Protection from Spells, often of limited value to adventurer types who have access to lots of items and abilities. But how about a much more mundane, but similarly small group of wards. A boost across the board of +8 resistance vs spells/SLA'a to such a group might be irreplaceable.
- Moment of Prescience, really need to make that Sense Motive check vs the Drow Ambassador or a save or ...
- Demand, Sending with built in Suggestion.
- Screen, like False Vision only now you can add in direction observation to those receiving disinformation.

Ninth
Thinking about things other than Wish and perhaps less adventurer and more 'patron' oriented.
- Refuge, want the King, or whoever, to be able to call on you even when you aren't at hand and possible a great distance away?
- Foresight, think about the combined effects of Foresight used on your "ward" and a permanent Telepathic Bond. Other than being on the same plane of existence (for the Bond) nothing says you need to be close by to give warning. Or Foresight (on the ward) and a previously cast Refuge +/- Telepathic Bond


I would ... I'd probably even considered tossing both conditions (Entangled and Grappled) out and calling the victims 'Pinned' instead for simplicity though mechanically there are some differences.

Pinned:
A pinned creature is tightly bound and can take few actions. A pinned creature cannot move and is denied its Dexterity bonus.. A pinned character also takes an additional –4 penalty to his Armor Class. A pinned creature is limited in the actions that it can take. A pinned creature can always attempt to free itself, usually through a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check. A pinned creature can take verbal and mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component. A pinned character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level) or lose the spell. Pinned is a more severe version of grappled, and their effects do not stack.

Bottom line is it doesn't really matter what I think unless it matters to your GM as they are the ones ultimately making the call.


No. Deeper Darkness is not "with the viewer seeing as if he were looking at something in normal light even if there is no illumination but a magical effect (as stated by Liam). Likewise if the object(s) within the box were rendered invisible you would not see it/them, though I'd probably say in this case if you could also use See Invisible then you would see the objects inside the box. So True Seeing plus X-ray vision and you'll see whatever is inside the box as long as you can 'penetrate' the solid material between you and the object(s) and no other magic is involved.


Hmmm -

Well first I mentally go over which of my long term buffs have gone missing (for the same reason I can't escape perhaps :D)
See Invisibility, Dark Vision, Arcane Sight, Telepathic Bond (all via Permanency), Nondetection, Detect Scrying, Prying Eyes, Overland Flight, Mind Blank, Moment of Prescience. All there? If no consider if need replacing, if yes proceed.

Round 1 - Quickened Haste, Time Stop
Round 2 - Quickened Greater Heroism, Displacement
Round 3 - Ride the Lightning (swift CT), True Seeing

Options after this depend (increasingly) on what is going on, how the encounter is set up and what abilities my companions and allies have. Do I (or a specific ally) need Elemental Protections, Planar Protections or other specific protections (Death Ward or Freedom of Movement as examples).


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Way back in 2E myself and my 2 companions defeated a Hill Giant while being essentially first level (I was a Fighter/Mage 1st/1st)

The giant lived in a sod and grass hut with only a front door and a chimney, no windows or other ways in and out were seen. The hut was atop a hill with a steep path winding up to his front door. We watched, plotted and learned his routine. Once he fell to sleep, we snuck up and carved the earth away from his front door and dug a deep, spiked pit at the base of the hill. Last we stuffed wet grass into the chimney, backing up the smoke from his hearth fire. Soon he emerged bellowing in anger but blinded, promptly falling down the slope (since his 'porch' was missing) and impaled himself on the spikes at the bottom of the pit. We then made like cavemen using long spears to finish the job the fall and spikes had started. My character carried his skull around for a long time and many levels.

Might not have been the strongest monster overall I've ever defeated without magic but relative to our level and capabilities he was without a doubt probably the strongest and certainly very memorable.


aceDiamond wrote:
Well, it was worth a shot. Really thought I had a solid argument, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

Well there's always the fact that it is your campaign and all that :)

And I'd see 2 options I'd consider if I really wanted to change things for my own campaign for whatever reason.

1) Simple change, go ahead and make it a swift action.
2) Little more complex, tweak the duration to "Special: 10 min per level until after the first use of the teleport option at which point the spell's duration continues for another 1 round/level. (And perhaps consider making the effect of any Conjuration (Teleportation) spell on the caster trigger the 1 round per level duration).

Note one can't normally make it contingent via Contingency as the companion spell is limited to 6th maximum (at CL 18+).

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