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Pathfinder Society Member. 1,154 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Reading things for about the billionth time.

Ready is a Standard Action, a preparatory action for another action you take later and resets your initiative. That later action is what can be a standard, move, swift or free action.

The preparatory or special initiative action in this case is 'set against a charge'

Whether this act is obvious or not is completely open as far as I can tell to the GM's judgement and however he wishes to handle it.

The encounter starts and initiative is rolled/decided.

Our OP is already aware and not surprised (In fact it sounds as if he is deliberately setting an ambush). Any rolls and or decisions about the guards awareness of what lies ahead them are made. If I were the GM I'd probably wrap this into one contested roll with benchmarks to decide just how much they note about the situation (guy outside door, guy outside door with weapon available, guy with weapon who might be trying to be all sneaky like and poke someone unexpectedly etc.).

So ... Our OP uses a Standard Action called Ready (set against a charge) and this may or may not be obvious subject per GM discretion. He does so at minimum as his Standard Action taken during the surprise round of combat. Note that any aware guards may or may not go ahead of him in the surprise round. Any aware guards that win initiative and I'm thinking the planned ambush/Readied action goes up in smoke as the aware guard(s) shout warnings. If none of them go ahead of him then continue:

Unaware (surprised) guards continue Running and he impales the first idiot to foolishly rush into the situation. (double damage for braced weapon)

Ditto for Aware (not surprised but slower reacting) guards who lost initiative.

Now after everyone has finished the surprise round the first round of combat starts. Any unlucky folks who go after our OP might now get struck again by Mr Tricksy and his reach weapon (Sneak damage vs anyone who lost initiative and is therefore still flat footed).

Yes? No?

Dot de dot dot dot.

To be clear I basically agree with RedDogMT. While Running is not Charging (they are two different actions) Running is definitely a more reckless movement hence the denied Dex and having the damage go back (outside of sneak attack considerations) to normal vs a braced weapon strikes me as wrong if strictly speaking RAW. I personally probably rule that the player could choose to do either braced damage or sneak damage assuming both were options for the character vs a Running character. I would probably not allow both however. The character would have to either focus on precision needed for the sneak or the bracing needing for inflicting the additional damage against a charge.

You can ready as part of surprise. Brace is a weapon quality not an action. The question becomes what sort of readied action is actually readied when you 'set the weapon against a charge'? It doesn't actually say what sort beyond it's a readied action. Problem is readied actions are varied:

Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.
The Surprise Round: If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.

Which leaves us where?

Getting any sort of damage more or less assumes the charger/runner continues to attempt his movement (for whatever reason) past the point of impact.

Mostly for me it comes back to the fact the guards are NOT going to run or charge pell mell into the interior of the tavern into deities only know what as that is risky and stupid. A guy standing with an obvious weapon is also NOT going to be ignored until somehow rendered unarmed or less of a potential threat in some manner without some sort of unusual circumstances (like bar fights and other public combat happen once a decade where these guards work). Otherwise halfway intelligent guards order him aside and or to throw his weapons down prior to coming within weapon range.

Anyway need to get offline nasty storms in the area. Be interesting to see where this goes by tomorrow.

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Mhordekai wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
Diversion is not the answer - you use it "while people are aware of you". It's for those "OMG, I need to get away and hide" moments. That's the opposite of what the vampire wants to do."
Successfully creating a diversion allows you to use stealth. Nowhere does it say it's only use is to escape a situation.
True - but you still need to book it for cover/concealment in order to stealth. Diversion doesn't let you ignore the cover/concealment requirement of stealth, it only lets you ignore the 'not aware' requirement of stealth.

I think the ghost, if coordinating with the vampire, is itself the potential distraction/diversion for the vampire. I would also allow the PCs to realize the ghost is deliberately trying to focus their attention on it with some sort of opposed roll (in addition to any Stealth rolls required of the vampire).

If they do not perceive you as a threat I would let you gain surprise, but some sort of opposed roll would be necessary for them to fail to perceive you as a threat and I would probably give them some bonuses since they are about to run (or rather move see below) past someone on the periphery of active combat who while is apparently not involved is certainly holding a weapon. They are guards, not morons. Running past someone obviously holding a weapon who might turn out to be hostile is not a good way to get back to the barracks alive and intact and tends to lean towards a short career with a sudden violent ending.

If you gain surprise you could ready to brace against a charge. But I'd either warn you at that point that trained guardsmen are probably not going to continue to Run directly into a fight and would need a straight, unobstructed path to actually charge anyone in the interior. In other words the guardsmen are probably not going to be Running as they move past you and unless they can see someone in a direct, unobstructed path who is obviously in combat, charging isn't going to be occurring either. Even if they can see someone I don't think it is likely any guardsmen I'd be controlling as GM would simply charge the first individual in combat they can see without a very good reason ... more likely they'd enter while looking over the scene and demanding for everyone to cease and desist etc.. But that is obviously up to your GM not me.

Edit:And yes you can ready to brace against a charge.

CRB wrote:
Readying a Weapon against a Charge: You can ready weapons with the brace feature, setting them to receive charges. A readied weapon of this type deals double damage if you score a hit with it against a charging character.

437. As the party enters the local marketplace they hear, then see stalls bucked upwards by the earth as if something fairly large is burrowing beneath. The disruption stops and two metal pipes break the surface, one belching steam (or smoke), the other curved with an eye set at the end:

  • a) Shortly after stopping another larger pipe pushes up through the earth and a hatch at the top opens. Two gnomes clamber out looking about, then appear to argue over a map.
  • b) The eye on the end of the pipe glows, then a green ray shoots out and a stall turns to fine ash (gets Disintegrated). This continues each round as the marketplace explodes into utter chaos (and/or the PCs intervene). The war has started! News of similar attacks throughout the city soon reaches the PCs.
  • c) The eye detaches and flies off towards the keep, courthouse or other important structure as the two pipes withdraw into the ground.
  • d) After swiveling about briefly the eye fixes upon one of the stalls and a booming voice proclaims "Varian the Bleak you have been found guilty of violating the Code, you are under arrest. Please come along quietly".

A couple that immediately come to mind I don't see mentioned above.

Floating Disc - haul loads around.
Grease - Make it easier to move heavy objects by using on surfaces beneath them. Possibly also to grease the object being moved if one can get around the issue of handling the greased object. Note lack of size/weight limit on the target object.

Note that the Scry spell vs the Divination (Scrying) school(subschool) can not be used to view a location only a creature so the caster would need a target he knows (hopes or believes) is within the area he wishes to travel to. Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, however, will view a known or familiar location provided is on the same plane of existence.

One of the easiest mundane ways to defeat Teleportation magic is to fill the area with objects (tables, chairs and other furniture; hanging chains; statuary etc.) so no open surface exists to teleport onto. How much rearranging of the furniture or how much 'open' space is required tends to fall into GM providence but the same requirement that exists for summoning creatures exists for teleportation.

Or you could do what my group once did upon having to deal with a Tarrasque which was to not kill it. Managed to zap it into a Mirror of Life Trapping (the one we accidentally freed it from, oops!, in the first place) then proceeded to drop it from high altitude over our not so favorite evil city thereby releasing all the occupants.

He or a friend has Spell Immunity (for Dimensional Anchor).

tonyz is correct, wading through the water, sludge or whatever goo is under foot is not something a 15th lvl party is going to do in all likely hood if they wish to avoid it. But your more familiar with the individual characters response. The variety of terrain ('dry', partially submerged, or underwater) will, however, make it more interesting, validate their choice and make any change in terrain less likely to draw suspicion. And you can always work to make flying near the ceiling also undesirable.

Note the interaction between Plant Growth and Entangle if you haven't already (i.e. the DC on Entangle goes up by 4).

Agree with kestral make liberal use of Dominate and Charm. Unless they start taking precautions every movement they make, who they interact with, talk to, buy stuff from, etc. should risk getting reported by folks the dragon has enchanted (especially as time goes by). Perhaps the one of the first challenges they (your PCs) need to overcome is uncovering, then evading (and maybe dismantling - gently even since many, not all, of the 'spies' are potentially unwilling and innocent) the dragon's elaborate spy network. Something I feel the dragon is sure to be working on having in any nearby inhabited areas where bothersome adventurer types and hostile nobles/armies might reside.

Often there is only one entrance to 'the lair' (or one true and a few heavily trapped false). Consider throwing that out the design window and make many entrances, something more along the lines of an anthill. Party comes in through "A" and the dragon once alerted exits "B" (or C,D,E, ... or Z) and comes in from behind the party. Instead of temple it's a temple complex. Minions upon minions every where once the 'anthill' is disturbed.

First thought that popped into my head was the fight(s) did not need to be underwater to increase the challenge. Knee and or waist deep will make movement vastly more difficult at least for creature up to a certain size (depending on how deep you make it). Having the party slogging around in knee+ deep water will slow them down, a Huge+ creature not so much.

Not sure if you've overlooked or forgotten this from reading the above, bolding mine: Water Breathing (Ex) A green dragon can breathe underwater indefinitely and can freely use its breath weapon, spells, and other abilities while submerged.

Seems to me it already effectively has Freedom of Movement.

If the party is not submerged but is in an area where it's movement is hampered by the water depth consider using the tail slap/crush ability in an unexpected way > to create a large wave which hits the party like a mass bull rush attempt by the dragon (followed by the minions rushing in, Entangle etc.). Damage might be reduced or eliminated depending on how you treat the attempt (or how much debris is in the water).

Give it a slightly younger visitor, a black dragon of appropriate age perhaps even making the players wonder if they (or their sources) got the color correct {deep dark green in poor light vs black with an oily sheen for example}. Now it's both a dragon battle and not a single creature encounter.

Can't recall if I've ever seen an "aquatic kobold" before. Maybe have some fun there :)

Let them go for it. Maybe they will surprise you and won't get curb stomped by everything. With smart experienced players I suspect this is quite possible. Maybe some feats will be that much more difficult to get but conversely some will probably become more desirable. Player creativity and clever thinking will make up for an awful lot of "not even an NPC quality stat array"

Consider adding in more Tomes (etc.) with the lower bonuses if things seem to be too tough. Drop an item or two using rarer bonuses to buff them more if needed (i.e. luck and/or insight come to mind) even to the point of considering those items as if they were inherent bonuses. That is they are permanent, perhaps with lesser maximums (say +3) that can not be disjoined/suppressed by antimagic areas or the like.

Maybe instead of doing what is often recommended for high powered parties vs the AP do the opposite when creating encounters/creatures. Smaller numbers and or reduce the average hit points instead of maximizing them or adding more minions. Again only if it seems they are in fact having trouble with the difficulty otherwise don't fix or worry about what isn't broken unless the fun factor has gone bye bye.

In short if the problem crops up then deal with it. Otherwise don't spend too much time worrying over what if.


No and Oh heck no.

20th level commoner is still 20th level

UMD doesn't scale with level very well if at all.

Buffs can and will patch up an awful lot of holes.

Dying at 20th level will happen rapidly, often with out much regard for things like hit points. Those commoner hp are about the equal of a wizards in any case. Death can be undone about as rapidly and easily as the dying part as well.

Things like system mastery and intelligent play have zero to do with the character(s) and everything to do with the player(s).

Is he more likely to die than the others, I'd say that depends as much if not more on the player than the character and how much the players work together as a team.

KenderKin wrote:
Who has zero ranged weapons?

They did (have ranged ability), topic covered upthread.

The Daemon, however, is also a good ranged damage dealer and forcing it down and into combat would have been a better tactical choice (if accomplished, the point of this thread) than trying to out-range it on a battlefield of its choice. Better in this case than might normally be said of many flying attackers.

But, but, but ... What if it was an Ettin?

No it wouldn't fall but I'm thinking your chance to successfully grapple it plus the fact it can no longer use its Greater Teleport make this a solid plan to attempt. Question becomes how good is the Daze DC vs Daemon's Will save?

Edit: And the not so insignificant fact that 5th to 6th level casters would need someway to use Dazing spell metamagic for a spell slot they actually have.

And, of course, all this talk of Grappling assumes the groups CMB can with some reliability overcome the Daemon's CMD of 35. Truestrike would both add to the CMB and negate any ongoing concealment.

Grappling is probably a losing proposition it can Greater Teleport at will.

Tanglefoot is also probably not going to work either. It needs to roll 2+ to make a DC 15 reflex.

The concealment is RAW provided it used Hover (the Monster Feat vs just hovering) within 20ft of ground covered with loose debris. So it probably wanted to remain within 20 of that terrain. Eliminating or moving from the area would probably have been a good idea.

Bestiary, Monster Feats, Hover:

This creature can hover in place with ease and can kick up clouds of dust and debris.

Prerequisite: Fly speed.

Benefit: A creature with this feat can halt its movement while flying, allowing it to hover without needing to make a Fly skill check.

If a creature of size Large or larger with this feat hovers within 20 feet of the ground in an area with lots of loose debris, the draft from its wings creates a hemispherical cloud with a radius of 60 feet. The winds generated can snuff torches, small campfires, exposed lanterns, and other small, open flames of non-magical origin. Clear vision within the cloud is limited to 10 feet. Creatures have concealment at 15 to 20 feet (20% miss chance). At 25 feet or more, creatures have total concealment (50% miss chance, and opponents cannot use sight to locate the creature).

Normal: Without this feat, a creature must make a Fly skill check to hover and the creature does not create a cloud of debris while hovering.

Was the creature ignoring the concealment? I see nothing in its description that indicates the Leukodaemon would be able to see through it any better than you. Or was the GM giving it concealment from some other source, perhaps in error? This use of Hover (for concealment) and the lingering cloud from Breath of Flies I would say are incompatible as well (the winds would disperse the cloud).

Sounds like the best idea would be to relocate the battle to another area and or take cover to force it down into melee.

BAB = Base Attack Bonus

CRB, Getting Started, Common Terms wrote:
Base Attack Bonus (BAB): Each creature has a base attack bonus and it represents its skill in combat. As a character gains levels or Hit Dice, his base attack bonus improves. When a creature's base attack bonus reaches +6, +11, or +16, he receives an additional attack in combat when he takes a full-attack action (which is one type of full-round action—see Combat).

PS: Slayer is a "full BAB class"

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And while it's probably late/not enough time left for the OP -> Read as many high level modules/AP's as you can get your hands on. More than a few of them (especially the earlier ones from late AD&D and 3.0) have sections specifically with advice on how to challenge high level characters. Though as mentioned above it's often not so much about the creatures/CR as world and campaign it does include advice on some of the high level spells including various often problematic divination sorts as well as dealing with the ability of high level characters to go from A to B between the first course of a meal and dessert plus other issues.

And a couple links to go with the above links:

Having some issues with it not directing the link properly (It keeps going to a Paizo page ??) ...

Caveat and related to Wraithstrike's post: High level characters built from scratch will often be very different and may have some glaring holes when compared to characters built and then played from low levels upwards. The likelyhood that even an experienced player will overlook 'something' while spending that 880,000 gp is substantial particularly if they aren't used to high level play.

And a last note (as much for clarity as the OP) Mythic and Epic are totally different systems for handling such characters.

Couple more thoughts. I'm not sure he can actually run out of cantrips. Once he has decided which to prepare they are there until he actually decides to prepare different ones (or the ones he has are somehow wiped by other magic etc.) Hopefully he has at least one memorized that is offensive in nature for combat purposes.

If he has an arcane bond item (and currently has it in his possession or gets to it) then he also gets one of the spells in his spellbook each day to cast even if not prepared. He better make that one count if that is the case.

My wizard(s) have never felt useless. Even when disarmed and/or captured. Reality may or may not have agreed :p

A high level wizard as has been pointed out has far more options, things like Spell Mastery, SLA's, etc., than a lower level wizard. However, while it most certainly hurts overall it hurts less when low level than high. Forcing a 15th level wizard into capture/imprisonment is a far greater drop in relative power than it is for a 5th level wizard generally speaking.

One possible solution - Allow the wizard to use his spellbook as if the spells in it were scrolls. Normally I'd say same for any other spellbooks he were to find but the time constraints prevent deciphering the writing first but perhaps after the escape if there is a pursuit going on the needed time might become available.

Find a Pearl of Power or two. Maybe even flawed ones which only work a few times before cracking and becoming pretty gravel. Or maybe the real owner shows up later during the escape and for some story reason the wizard feels obligated to return them (or returns them for some reward or or or ...).

As Rambear points out if you wrote the corner you put yourself in you can probably write finding the backdoor out as well.

Lastly a point towards letting the wizard (magus and party) deal with it. If you've been their GM for a while then hopefully that trust (in both directions) is there as well which should lead a decent player to go with ... "my wizard is never useless" and take it as the interesting challenge the situation can be and go looking for the solutions you have put before them (and probably find some you haven't even thought of on top of it).

kestral287 wrote:

Simplest option-- make it bring itself down.

Presumably this flyer is trying to be a threat, and that means some form of ranged attack. Even a simple Obscuring Mist prevents that, and is available from first level. Doesn't help against big enough AoEs, but it stops targeted attacks well. Higher level spells can be more efficient-- a Wall of Force, aligned horizontally over your head, will stop AoEs just fine.

If it is using melee attacks, a simple "I ready my action to attack it/grapple it" will either do some damage or bring it down, depending on how confident you are in your CMB.

Magical flight is dispellable if it's coming off an actual spell. Antimagic Field can stop even Su flight but that has its own problems.

And of course, moving out of the open works fine if that's an option.

Personally rather than placing a Wall of Force over myself for cover and provided the flyer comes within range place the invisible Wall directly in the creatures flight path. Ouch that's going to leave a mark!

Milo v3 wrote:

The item creation rules are the same for combat items and non-combat items. The price doesn't depend on setting, it depends on how you make the item. If it is a constant effect for example, it'll be more expensive than a mug that can once a day make a drink alcoholic.

As for ideas, I've started writing down a few myself here.

Yes for best comparisons between items the "price" needs to be set via the creation rules in a standardized fashion. That said the magic item creation rules are some of the best rules in the game to keep in mind that they are guidelines only first and foremost and the creation of new items is definitely an art as much as science.

I'd start by looking within the Magic Item Creation rules. Much of what you seem to be aiming for are probably going to end up being Wondrous Items using spells with non-combat use as their basis. Unfortunately much like doing so for combat items they fall squarely into the realm of what the GM allows or in this case can 'invent' for the campaign.

I'd also use caution when pricing skill bonuses. All skill bonuses are not created equal, at least in my opinion. Would make me, at least, uneasy to set a precedent where for 90,000 gp someone could access a +30 bonus to UMD, for example (half that if crafted).

It's the GM's call as to what is ineffective (and just how ineffective even it might be). I personally don't buy that a bludgeoning weapon will in fact do no damage to a standard hemp rope for instance ... particularly if the rope is getting hammered between the stone pier it is anchored to and SMASH the Raging barbarian's Great Maul. I will grant his Great Axe will make much, much quicker work of it, but it isn't going to take minutes to pancake the rope either (though you might end up with stone pier rubble and a squashed rope).

Bottom line expect table variation.

Love Searing Light ... there's almost nothing, creature-wise it won't have some effect on (if, for example, you are up against something very unfamiliar whose resistances and immunities are unknown).

Doomed Hero's idea about holy water could also be used similarly with a large container full of holy water and Shrink Item.

And Consecrate deserves mention, a -1 penalty to undead, no vampire spawn can be created should the unfortunate happen to a party member and several other effects.

Just a Guess wrote:

As a slight derail:

Does glitterdust work vs. ethereal creatures? Ethereal states that the creature is invisible, glitterdust counters invisibility. So would glitterdust make an ethereal creature visible?

Ethereal text:
Ethereal wrote:

An ethereal creature is invisible, insubstantial, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down, albeit at half normal speed. An ethereal creature can move through solid objects, including living creatures. An ethereal creature can see and hear on the Material Plane, but everything looks gray and ephemeral. Sight and hearing onto the Material Plane are limited to 60 feet.

Force effects and abjurations affect an ethereal creature normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa. An ethereal creature can't attack material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things. Certain material creatures or objects have attacks or effects that work on the Ethereal Plane.

An ethereal creature treats other ethereal creatures and ethereal objects as if they were material.

Or is the part about force effects and abjuration effects exclusive, saying that other effects to not work, making the creature immune to glitterdust, which is a conjuration/creation effect.

Not so much immune as simply not there. Ethereal creatures are on a different plane of existence and only force effects and abjuration spells have effects which extend across the boundary between the material and ethereal planes and onto the ethereal plane. If your ethereal creature left the ethereal plane and entered the material plane it would be effected per usual by the spell near as I'm aware.


When the player asks how far across tells them the DC is 12 because ...

1) You don't have the aforementioned surveying/laser tools to know whether the pit is 9.8 ft, 10.2ft or even 11.6 feet

2) Maybe depending on exactly where you cross the orc crafted pit (vs a dwarven one :p) it is all the above distances (potentially) to cross it, fine? craftsmanship notwithstanding.

3) Because maybe it's just easier to set the DC and the pit just miraculously is whatever distance across is required by ones interpretation of the rules to create that DC.

4)Because, wow 19 pages of thread and going.

That's why my wizard usually memorized both See Invisibility and Glitterdust.

Once I saw an invisible threat I had the option to 'light up' the target for the rest of the party.

And what point remains to the Stealth check penalty if you continue to apply concealment?

My Loremaster once used Disintegrate on NPC Fighter foe, he failed the save ... then our Rogue used a Rod of Wonder and rolled in the 16-20 category.

16-20 result:
Gust of Wind at windstorm force

We all about died laughing at the result.

My vote is for something odd like Repulsion or Telekinesis (for the Pin)

Embarrassment, not death, is my first choice with a normally intelligent player making an idiotic move as a character.

And Banishment is on the table as the the characters are extraplanar targets while on the demiplane.

For wizards using the Core rules, traveling between the planes seems to be pretty easy. Once you hit 9th level, you can basically come and go. That ease of access for traveling wizards seems like it will be the defining feature of this sort of game, and I'm not sure I'm happy with that fact, especially considering how easily they can take people with them.

Totally different direction but why does it bother you (and apparently others as well)? So what if a caster/wizard/adventurer can travel rapidly between point A and point B? Seems like complaining that I could use a private jet to travel between Charleston SC and New York NY rather than a car, train, bus or jet ski.

If it really does put a crimp in your fun the easiest and probably least disruptive solution is make the Fork cost more than 1gp followed by requiring the caster needing to learn what Fork goes to where. It doesn't even have to be all forks. Maybe some of them are common and cheap (and found inside component pouches) while others are made of platinum and iridium alloys and not so common or cheap (and hence not found inside component pouches) It's your game and RAW says you get to call the shots including deciding what exactly RAW is for your game.

Chess Pwn wrote:
find the path spell handles finding any location

Of course.

And advice on how to handle Find the Path are numerous within these threads starting with read the spell and recognize its limitations as well (duration, prominence, direct physical but not necessarily safest path etc.).

Point being it isn't just cast Plane Shift and "yeah we're here at Ak'Bar's citadel!" particularly the first time the caster heads that way and especially at the levels when a caster can first start using Plane Shift unless that's what the GM wants to have happen. How many castings of Find the Path do you think might be involved in a 300 mile overland trek (i.e. a 9 maybe 10+ days long trip)? What if the Path (i.e. direction) changes each time the caster uses the spell ... some of the Outer Planes can be highly morphic for instance. "I'm sorry my companions but the last 3 days we seem? to have somehow been heading the wrong way despite the spell ... errrm let me consult my lorebooks"

The answer is "knowledge". He might have a gazillion tuning forks in his 'endless' spell component pouch but the caster in question has to KNOW which of those gazillion forks is the one they need to get to the specific plane they wish to go. That knowledge is where, as GM, I'd create part of the challenge of getting from A to B.

Plane Shift is also (as Entryhazard points out, ninja'd!) quite inaccurate bringing you to within 5 to 500 miles from where you 'aim' to be. The first visit is not going to be anywhere near resembling routine.

So where to mighty caster?
City of Brass.
(Researches appropriately to discover exactly which fork they need, this can be as difficult, time and resource-wise, as you the GM decide to make it)
Casts Plane Shift *poof* You have arrived somewhere within 5 to 500 miles of the City of Brass, now what?

Maybe casts Teleport ... to a place he probably can consider, if he's lucky, as viewed once. A picture perhaps is some Tome about the Elemental Plane of Fire/City of Brass. Might be impossible depending on how an individual GM rules travel by Teleportation.

Otherwise they (the caster and his companions) need to figure out which way to head for the next 5 to 500 miles in order to actually get to the Grand Efreet's Al'Akbar's Tower within the City of Brass. On the Elemental Plane of Fire that quite likely involves more than just deciding x and y (north south east west) consider the party may have to contend with up and down (z) as well as the cardinal directions.

So yes after a trip or two (or twenty depending on 'stuff') the caster may be able to travel there as conveniently as you and I go to the corner grocer ... but no need to make the first trip as easy as 1,2,3.

Dotting to follow ...


What am I? My answer will vary a bit depending on what class(es) I am playing but in general anything over about 6th is a good start.

Manwolf wrote:
Says the rope can't be hidden, but what about Disguise? Paint it, stick some leaves on it, and it's a small tree trunk.

I think most GM's who would have a problem with the hidden part would consider disguise or camouflage to be the method of making it hidden and hence still have issue with it ... but its also starting to look like most folks do not have an issue with camouflage, disguise, concealment or cover, etc. being used to mask (i.e. hide) the ropes presence. But this is the internet and a forum I'm almost sure there are some out there who might disagree with this as well.

Yep while the level and overall intent of the spell means most of the questions arising from the text are fairly straight forward and easily dealt with all sorts of silliness arises or other questions are left unanswered in a strictly RAW sense.

"Sorry Mr Wizard your Obscuring Mist fizzles when you try to use it to protect yourself from those archers. One of your foes cast Rope Trick last round in the area you want to use Obscuring Mist and that would 'hide' the Rope Trick". Silly, stupid and I'm more than fairly sure not as intended but strictly speaking a RAW interpretation.

Is an already invisible rope not a legal target of Rope Trick?
Is the rope now completely immune to being sliced, burned or cut just outside the planar window?
How about "Can I target the rope with Disintegrate?" Clearly (or perhaps not :p) most, if not all, the rope is outside the point when you (and the rope) are actually within the extradimensional space or it seems unlikely you could climb it part way to reach a normal place.

I believe RD hit it on the head that the hidden part refers more that characters/creature inside the extradimensional space can't retroactively use any spells across the window/planar boundary to hide the rope even though one interpretation of the text strongly implies at least one end of the rope is within the space and being in the center of that window is therefore completely visible to any creatures looking out.

While as stated BigDTBone is correct as far as no sound, thermal and other aspects of a fire beyond the visual (and movement while concentrating) can be used by Silent Image it is the visually concealing smoke of the Image that is the crux of the hidden question and I believe we are in agreement that hiding the rope via illusory smoke is doable. Obviously a more powerful illusion may delay or make more difficult interaction and resulting saves allowed when dealing with the illusion. And like any illusion GM interpretation can highly influence how useful illusions overall are within the campaign.

And in addition to the replies above (with which I total agree) don't forget to make him use the appropriate actions when and or if he changes out what equipment he currently has in hand ... time i.e. action economy and cost is where you have the leeway within the rules to introduce some sort of 'realistic' cost to what is occurring.

For example, slow the whole party down to his presumable slower speed ... or they leave him behind.

While normally most GM's wouldn't worry about it you can ask about how he has it strapped on. Is the Tower Shield over or under his backpack, or quiver/crossbow etc. "Sorry you need to remove you Tower Shield to access your backpack to get at 'whatever'" and then apply those actions to the whole procedure. He'll hopefully get the hint and or rapidly spend the wealth to acquire the Haversack etc. to deal with the load. You merely need to decide how much of that is needed for you to feel the image isn't ridiculous in your head while at the same time continues to make the game fun for all involved.

Even RAI is a bit vague ... its wording has been changed from the older 3.5 wording (which specifically allows the rope to be pulled into the extradimensional space (at the cost of using one creatures space within) leaving us to decide why and how that changes the intent behind the word changes. RAW the wording is even worse when taken to some of the extremes you've pointed out (such as casting it within a room and therefore is 'hidden' from anyone outside the room). Somewhat akin to using Sequester a 7th level spell on the rope.

Personally I'd say the PC(s) have come up with a excellent way to use Silent Image and 'hide' the rope. Perhaps the Will O Wisps see through the illusion (make the save) or one of the creatures they lure into/thru the camp will or even just plain spot (Perception) the rope even though it is hidden by the illusion even if that means that by RAW I'm using my Rule 0 GM power on the text of Rope Trick.

*Bah* I read that slightly wrong you don't need to describe the targets only those who can read it without triggering and you ought to be able to describe yourself or the party well enough to satisfy a GM regardless of how detailed they need it to be.

So the big differences will be in duration (both before and after triggering) and the obvious use of SSS vs IS

Illusory Script might be doable. The main issue I see with Illusory Script is this portion of the text:

Text says wrote:
Only the person (or people) designated by you at the time of the casting can read the writing; it's unintelligible to any other character.

Expect some variance in how limited it might become by how specific the GM rules you need to be on the person or people you can designate >> Any official impeding your path vs any Guardsman vs one of the guards working with Sgt Donavan on the 3rd shift of the watch in such and such town. In that respect Sepia Snake Sigil is more "generic", (anyone seeing the protected text), more versatile and potential duration after triggering is days vs 30 minutes or so.

In short both might do the job depending on exactly what you need to have happen. Illusory Script is also relatively subtle, a guardsman reads it and tells all the other guards you check out (and lets you pass) vs a sudden flash and an obvious amber field surrounds the guard hence alerting the other quards etc. etc..

Cevah wrote:

It is a creature, so it can. Getting them, however, is another story.

1) Make it a cohort (Leadership feat).

2) Make it a construct (much easier).



I once (as the GM) created an intelligent sword which had 8 levels of Sorceror and also had Eschew, Silent and Still as feats to help explain how it managed to use its spells ... but I never really, since it was in possession of a friendly NPC, explained to the players/PCs (heck I barely figured out for myself) exactly how it managed to gain those 8 levels.

I would say no a creature with 60ft Tremorsense could not detect another creature 80ft away through solid material even if said creature is only 30ft away through the air.

That said unless it is a PF Society play I think the important factor would be to be consistent with however one ruled in this situation. And hopefully PFS would be also internally consistent with its ruling(s)

As for identifying a creature via Tremorsense I think yes it should be possible if the character wishes to attempt such. And while none exist that I am aware of I think a creature with "Tremorsight" vs Tremorsense would also do a better job of it. Shadowlord's example of Toph for instance might be better said to have Tremorsight if one wanted to make the differentiation for their home campaign. But that is definitely heading off into homebrew realms.

While rweston's answer may seem a bit overly strict I believe it is a solid RAW response. Commune is the spell (at 5th level) more along the line of questioning the Arcanist is engaging in, not the spell Divination.

He is beyond Golarion/pathfinder true deity level power

If this is the case why bother 'making' him at all? Just have him do whatever you need him to do at any given moment(s) to fit the story. It's not as if he isn't capable of it from what I'm reading. If not and he still fits the bill of the above quote then you are already well beyond anything the rules, the game and the campaign themselves truly deal with and are pretty much on your own.

And, of course, the characters in a novel, comic, movie or other narrative are totally under the writers control, they always react and do exactly what the author(s) intend and need them to do. Players and their characters don't have that constraint upon them to follow and do exactly as desired by the GM to make the story progress as the GM may desire. The Spectre is as powerful (or weak) as the writers need him to be to tell whatever story they have in mind. Even though M&M rules are more designed to convey the power of someone like Spectre even those rules place limits on what can and cannot be done ... so even there a GM may have no other choice than to 'break' the constraints of the rules for his story regardless if they are D&D rules, d20 rules, M&M or any other system.

So let Spectre do what he needs to do for your story and worry about rules when or if needed as ultimately that's why the rules exist in the first place to help and aid in telling your and your player characters story.

No I would not let them, while it is not listed as an 'Action or No Action' etc., it is called a 'single melee attack' and RAI I would say it is a very specific sort of Action (separately named and with its own rules) you get to take outside of your normal turn, where/when most of your Actions occur.

If I follow you
1) Yes, if measured through solid surfaces I would allow Tremorsense to detect the other creature if that distance was less than the range of the creatures Tremorsense ability.
2) No if the required distanced traced was through more 'solid' than the Tremorsense range then no I would not allow the creature to detect the other creatures (the wolves in your example) regardless of the actual directly traced distance.

And to further clarify that is 8,000 plus the cost of a masterwork version of the weapon made of the appropriate material for a +2.

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