Danse Macabre

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Here's a wickedly awesome idea: Convert the new playtest campaign, Doomsday Dawn, into a Kirthfinder campaign. Then use it to playtest/introduce people to Kirthfinder.

We could even call it, "Doomsday Dusk." People can then compare how it feels to play between the two systems, and rate their experiences with both PF2E and KF, comparing and contrasting the two.

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Pathfinder 2e Playtest came out. Seeing a lot of familiar stuff in there. Some changes I like, others...not so much. I still think Kirthfinder is a way better Pathfinder 2E than the actual Pathfinder 2E.

I think that rule is only for DR/Alignment.

JDawg75 wrote:
Heather 540 wrote:
JDawg75 wrote:

*warning: potential necro*You know what would be epic: wielding an orc hornbow. Is there a feasible way I could swing that?


Easy, use the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat.

My own Inquisitor character is a half-orc Sanctified Slayer / Ravener Hunter. One of the archetypes gives you an Oracle's Mystery with Revelations at level one and 8. I chose Battle and took Skill At Arms at level 8 to give her Martial Weapon Proficiency. Which orc weapons are to half-orcs.

Forgot to mention the caveat: I don't want to use any feats. All of my feats through at least level 7 are spoken for. My race will almost certainly stay human.

Buy an Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone.

Wizard is easily the best way to build Batman.

Bruce Wayne = Normal form (Your apparent physical weakness only accentuates this disguise)

Batman Getup = Adjustable Disguise (who needs to be a Vigilante when you have this?)

Martial Capability = Emblem of Greed / Transformation (especially with the Idealize Discovery, since Batman is in some ways, an ideal)

Stealth Skills = Greater Invisibility / Penumbral Disguise / Impenetrable Veil (the last one is essentially the ninja capstone as a 10 min/level spell)

Bat Cave = Create Demiplane (Can't get more hidden than that)

Utility Belt = Insert other spells here.

Seriously, what more do you want? Wizard is always a good recommendation almost for anything. Hell, there's a thread on Reddit about using a Wizard to emulate a g+%!%@n Gundam Wing Pilot. Wizards of high enough level can do literally anything and everything.

I would say ask your GM. If they're reasonable, they'll probably allow it.

Using up one of your precious few exploits in order to gain access to Acadamae Graduate certainly isn't a waste. And if you really want standard action summons, there's always Words of Power, which is still technically 100% 1st party Paizo.

Even without standard action minute/level summons though, I'd still go for an Exploiter (Pact) Wizard.

Why not both?

Be an Exploiter Wizard. Take the Acadamae Graduate feat.

The feat requires you to be a "specialist wizard" that did not make conjuration an opposed school of magic. Not having conjuration as an opposed school is easy since you don't have any opposed schools. However, "specialist wizard" is a bit of an undefined term.

At most, it just means a wizard that has chosen an arcane school, so if you take the School Understanding Exploit, you should still technically qualify. The exploit literally allows you to select and gain an arcane school, it just wants you to pay reservoir points to use its full power.

But full power isn't necessary for the Acadamae Graduate feat. As an Exploiter Wizard with Acadamae Graduate, you have tremendous versatility. Even more so if you decide to combine the archetype with the Pact Wizard archetype that gives you access to an Oracle Curse and a Witch's Patron.

Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Kaouse wrote:
Hmm, so what would say is the most effective means to deal with an undead? Especially if it's an undead version of a PC?
What kind of undead are they?

Generic undead. Nothing overtly special, IIRC.

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I think there's a rule that when Summoned Creatures disappear, everything they left behind also disappears. This would include the profane gift from the Succubus (but it wouldn't deal any Charisma damage or anything, it would just cease to exist).

Otherwise, I would just treat the illusion beast's ability the same as a summoned beast's ability and let it work until it expired.

Hmm, so what would say is the most effective means to deal with an undead? Especially if it's an undead version of a PC?

Can Undead creatures be targetted by Resurrection and/or True Ressurection?

The Undead description states the following:

Undead Traits wrote:
Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.

However, the Resurrection spells say the following:

Resurrection wrote:
You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. You cannot resurrect someone who has died of old age. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be resurrected.
True Resurrection wrote:
You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can’t resurrect constructs or undead creatures.

Emphasis mine.

So is the intent supposed to be that you can only resurrect an undead creature after it has been destroyed? If so, then the bit under "undead traits" doesn't make much sense, since everything that dies and is destroyed, is treated as an object.

If it's still treated as an undead to the point where it has undead traits, it's still "alive" right?

If you think Druid Wildshape is garbage, I pray that you never have to play a Shifter.

Mind Buttressing:
Mind buttressing armor grants the wearer a +2 resistance bonus on Will saves and renders her immune to possession and mental control (including charm and compulsion effects like command and charm person). If it’s donned by a creature already under the influence of such an effect, the creature immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against the spell or effect. If the check is successful, the effects are suppressed until the creature removes the armor, after which they resume. This ability can be applied only to medium or heavy armor.

Emphasis mine. If you take a regular breastplate and enchant it with mind-buttressing, what happens to it when the breastplate becomes mithral?

I know mithral breastplate still requires medium armor proficiency, so does it count as medium armor or light armor for the purposes of special abilities?

If not, then does the timing in which the ability was "applied" matter? That is to say, if the Mind Buttressing ability was applied to the breastplate while it was a legal target, could it still be used if breastplate is no longer a legal target?

Could I also apply the Brawling enchantment to a Mithral Breastplate?

The wearer of brawling armor gains a +2 bonus on unarmed attack and damage rolls, including combat maneuver checks made to grapple. Her unarmed strikes count as magic weapons for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. These bonuses do not apply to natural weapons. This special ability does not prevent the wearer’s unarmed strikes from provoking attacks of opportunity or make the wearer’s unarmed strikes count as armed attacks. The brawling ability can be applied only to light armor.

Emphasis mine. The same questions apply but in reverse.

Is it ever possible to have a Mind-Buttressing & Brawling Armor?

Any full caster that can cast Emblem of Greed. Bonus points if they abuse a Coven for this.

roguerouge wrote:
Pack a crowbar. It's the martial equivalent of a scroll of knock

It's sad how true this is.

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Chances are, your casters aren't playing to their potential. The solution, put them up against casters that ARE playing to their potential. It'll definitely make the martial's lives miserable, and the casters will get ideas of the sort of stuff they can do, too.

Have you considered playing a straight Beastkin Berserker Barbarian? You get access to Beast Shape III at Level 12 (unlike the Shifter who is restricted to Beast Shape II). Plus, you can select any legal Beast Shape creature, unlike the Shifter who is limited to a list of 12.

I think the archetype was nerfed in PFS to be more in line with Mooncursed (in that the bonuses from Beast Shape replace Rage bonuses, rather than stack alongside them), but even then, I feel like you gain way more by staying a single classed Barbarian than you would by going Shifter for 4 levels.

Mainly, Strength Surge--the best rage power for people interested in Combat Maneuvers--gives you a bonus equal on the roll equal to your Barbarian level. Plus you get great saves against magic with Superstitious, and decent defenses with the DR from Invulnerable Rager. With Invulnerable Rager + the Stalwart Feat + Improved Stalwart, you become pretty difficult to take down even with a lack of armor.

Gray Warden wrote:

Did I say they are archetypes?

Bloodline Mutations wrote:
Although heirs to similar arcane bloodlines may share commonalities, the unique circumstances in which a bloodline enters a bloodrager or sorcerer’s lineage can result in the manifestation of particularly strange or unusual bloodline powers known as mutations. Whenever a bloodrager or a sorcerer gains a new bloodline power, she can swap her bloodline power for a bloodline mutation whose prerequisites she meets. Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed, and a bloodrager or sorcerer cannot swap a bloodline power that she has altered or replaced with an archetype for a bloodline mutation. A bloodrager need not be in a bloodrage to use her bloodline mutation powers. Alternatively, a bloodrager or sorcerer can select a bloodline mutation in place of a bloodline bonus feat, provided her class level is at least equal to the level of the bloodline ability the mutation normally replaces.

Huh, that's interesting. Apparently doesn't stop you from trading out "altered" bonus feats though.

Gray Warden wrote:
Jaxtor wrote:
I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to throw my two bits in. If you're just going straight damage I think Cross blooded sorc using the Orc and Draconic (any fire) blood lines and the bloodline mutations for +3 dmg per dice. Using varisian tatoo and precocious spell caster you can have a burning hands at lvl1 that deals 3d4+9 dmg 5 times a day. Or if you want a more long term character drop the cross blooded and take only the orc blood line and have 3d4+6 dmg burning hands a second spell like windy escape ( a favorite of mine.)
Cross-blooded alters all Bloodline powers, so no Bloodline Mutations for you.

Bloodline Mutations aren't an archetype.

Silksworn Occultist.

As an Occultist, your magic doesn't so much come from you, as it does from your implements. So it's somewhat valid for the Occultist to say something along the lines of "I have no magical power whatsoever."

Silksworn takes things up a notch, by giving you access to more implements (which means more spells known), more spells per day, and Silksworn Deception.

Silksworn wrote:

Silksworn Deception (Su): At 12th level, a silksworn can hide his speech and gestures within his extravagant clothing. Whenever the silksworn casts a spell, he can attempt a Bluff check opposed by Sense Motive checks from those observing him. Those who fail are unaware of his spellcasting, unless an effect obviously originates from the silksworn.

This ability replaces binding circles.

Plus, if you choose an illusion implement, you can grab Magic Aura and similar spells to hide your magical auras.

If a Level 1 NPC Warrior has more than 12 STR, it too is extraordinary. An average person's STR is 10, while 12 is above-average. Anything more than that is extraordinary.

While an NPC with a Greatsword could theoretically whittle away at an iron door (better than tunneling through Shawshank with a spoon or filing away iron bars with a nail sharpener), it would take a prohibitively long time, and more than likely attract unwanted attention.

A single inch of iron has 30 HP and Hardness 10. If you want a door to be difficult to get through, you could make it of an unknown thickness to dissuade attacks (It's not like your party knows how thick any given door is, so you can keep its health secret pretty easily). Or better yet, treat all doors as Adamantine, with hardness 20. By the time the party is strong enough to deal with that, the wizard should likely already have teleportation or other methods of bypassing doors.

At any rate, yes, Doors have Break DCs. From my reading of it, these Break DCs basically allow you to burst down the door with a single standard action so long as you make the requisite STR check. Such a thing is way more efficient than attempting to hack through the door for multiple rounds with no real way of knowing how much longer it will take.

But Doors also have Hardness and HP for a reason. I would totally allow a player to hack down a door if they so choose, and if it's something that Fighters can do at early levels that the wizard can't do as easily until later on, then I'm more than fine with that bit of early niche protection staying in the game.

As an aside, Level 5 Martial Artist Monks literally have the ability to ignore hardness and DR with Exploit Weakness, so... yeah.

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Pizza Lord wrote:

Kaouse wrote:
Just let them hack the g@+&&!n door with any weapon of their choosing. It's a lot better than the alternative, which is to force your martial characters to sit in the corner and do nothing while the wizard solves the problem in 6 seconds with a spell (in this case, Knock).
I think I know what you're trying to imply: the we should just let players fly and jump 200 foot chasms just because they can't... <---- playful sarcasm ...

Sarcasm or not, this strawman of my point is pretty poor. You might not know this, but regular people are able to break stone. Regular people aren't able to fly and jump 200 ft chasms. That said, the characters we play in this game, aren't regular people. They are EXTRAORDINARY people, with EXTRAORDINARY abilities. The fact that you think something possible for regular people is somehow an issue for EXTRAORDINARY people, is problematic.

My major point here, is that anything a regular person could do, is something I would mostly handwave a PC doing. Or at least allow an attempt without penalty.


but I am not letting them hack through any door they want with any weapon they want just because the alternative is allowing a character who prepared a spell or bought a resource or planned ahead 6 seconds to do so. Sorry, your whip (even your lethal damage whip) or spiked chain isn't going to work just because you decided to focus your entire character on being a whip user. Buy a crowbar.

If your players seriously whine and threaten to sit in a corner when you say there's a locked door and the wizard actually gets a chance to cast a knock spell they have prepared because you're taking away their schtick of dealing damage (conveniently forgetting that they can deal damage in almost every encounter in an adventure unless there's absolutely no combat in it), then that's being petulant.
Wizard:"Hey, I can cast my knock spell finally. I didn't know if it would come in...

Can you not see the issue here is endemic of a greater problem? Martial characters have preciously few ways to interact with the narrative of a story, while casters have every tool available.

If the party wants to track down an item, the caster can cast Scrying, Locate Object, or any other number of divinations to help find it. What can the Fighter do besides sit in a corner and twiddle his thumbs?

If the party wants to sneak into a dangerous area and recover said item, the Wizard can cast Invisibility in order to bypass any guards, and escape with Dimension Door/Teleport/Word of Recall. What can the Fighter do besides sit in a corner and twiddle his thumbs?

If the party gains audience with the king and needs to curry his favor , then the caster can cast things like Charm Person, or even Dominate Person, to turn the King into their puppet. What can the Fighter do besides sit in a corner and twiddle his thumbs?

Now, obviously, you might point to skills. A Fighter could attempt to track items with Survival and Perception. They could attempt to elude capture with Stealth and Sleight of Hand. They could attempt to curry favor with the Kind using Bluff and Diplomacy. And they could even attempt to open locked doors using Disable Device.

The problem with all of these options is that they all suck compared to the magical solution, which more often than not, completely bypasses the problem. Worse still, even when skills are useful, the Fighter gets literally no bonuses to using them in any meaningful way, while the caster can cast a myriad of spells to boost their skill checks into the stratosphere.

Need a Perception check? The caster can cast Acute Senses for a +30 bonus. Need a Bluff check? Glibness does the same. Then there's stuff like Focused Scrutiny, which boosts all of the nominal "face" skills, or Tears to Wine, which boosts all INT and WIS skill checks.

In the game of skills, the only thing that matters is who has the highest bonus. Everyone else literally need not apply. The Fighter, who gets no in class boosts to any of his skills, is often relegated to sitting in a corner, and twiddling his thumbs.

So when it comes down to it, 2/3 of Pathfinder is problem solving, with only 1/3 of it being combat. If you relegate the Fighter to only being useful in combat, then for the other 2/3 of the game, the fighter generally isn't having fun. Mind you, the Fighter has massive issues even being useful while inside of combat if they aren't an archer or aren't being carried by the team.

And that's the problem here. You are shrinking the tiny amount of power the Fighter has to solve problems via HP damage, and instead relegating it to just another spell the caster can cast. Casters can already do everything, even combat, better than Fighters can. Why not at least let Fighters do this?

What's worse is that the restriction doesn't even make sense from a gameplay perspective, as another poster pointed out. If a weapon isn't suitable to cut a door made out of stone or wood, why would it suddenly be suitable to cut a golem made of the same material? Do items now take damage when you attack a golem? What about an animated object? Are you telling me I can attack an animated door more easily than I can attack a regular door, or do my weapons take damage when I attack those too? Seriously, it's f~$~ing ludicrous to not allow characters to break down doors.

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The thing is, neither the Investigator nor the Magus need to rely on Dirty Trick in order to debuff somebody. The Investigator can attack normally and still make a target sickened with Sickening Offensive. Or prevent them from being able to take AOOs with Sapping Offensive (which allows you to use further combat maneuvers against them without needing the feat investment).

The Investigator is probably the ONLY 3/4 BAB class that doesn't need significant buff time to pull off combat maneuvers. And that's entirely due to how strong Studied Combat is. It's literally the strongest offensive buff in the game. The only buffs I could possibly think of that match it are day-limited buffs like Smite Evil and a high level Inquisitor Triple Judgement, and even then, that's because they often do multiple things outside of boosting a class's offense.

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This is a game where casters can shape and reshape the very cosmos itself, but martial characters can't be expected to kick down doors or shatter stone without people complaining about how unrealistic it is. Apparently Pathfinder martials don't even rise to the level of an action movie star...

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A Swashigator is an Investigator with a one level Swashbuckler dip (generally the Inspired Blade archetype) for easy Dex to Damage. It doesn't require Effortless Lace at all.

Of course, at Level 11, you could just make the Investigator Dex based by spending money on Agile. If you want to retain the skill focus, nobody does it better than the Investigator. With Studied Combat, you can still pull off combat Maneuvers. Plus, you can grab Sickening Offensive for a no save Sicken on hit.

Investigator also has a strong Will save, and if you are going to be Lawful Good, then feel free to purchase a potion of the Paladin Spell, Bestow Grace, to add your Charisma to your saves. It's a potent buff that you can spam with Alchemical Allocation.

Another alternative, is to be a Dex & Int based Kensai Bladebound Magus. You get high AC, high damage, and great saves all around (especially since you can spend all of your money on save boosters rather than enhancing a weapon or armor).

If you want to debuff, the Frostbite build is easily the best. Rime Spell Metamagic+ Enforcer + Shatter Defenses makes you really threatening to anybody not immune to cold or non-lethal.

If you didn't mind paying for a sword, you could add Cruel to that (or take the Tiefling alternate trait that let's you count as human, then take Gnome racial heritage to select their Favored class bonus to get Cruel). If somehow you were still drowning in feats, consider also Arcane Strike into Riving Strike for further debuffs. Spellcasting teammates will absolutely love you.

The Nerf to Lore Warden was insane, and completely uncalled for. I would play a Barbarian just to spite anyone who thought that the Lore Warden was overpowered.

Strength Surge alone makes the Barbarian better at Combat Maneuvers. Auspicious Mark makes them decent at skills. If you were human you could even get all knowledge skills as class skills with an alternate racial trait, on top of the human Favored Class Bonus for Barbarian, which gives you a tremendous boost to Superstition saves.

In any way you put it, Lore Warden was certainly not overpowered. Are you absolutely married to the idea of an INT based Lawful Good Tiefling? At least if you weren't INT based you could play a fairly powerful Paladin and be almost unkillable.

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Just let them hack the g*@%!#n door with any weapon of their choosing. It's a lot better than the alternative, which is to force your martial characters to sit in the corner and do nothing while the wizard solves the problem in 6 seconds with a spell (in this case, Knock).

If damage is what they contribute to the party, then let them contribute. These characters, even at level 1, are extraordinary, not extra ordinary. They deserve some narrative freedom.

But you agree that, by RAW, this should work, right?

I will note that the Evangelist, Exalted and Sentinel prestige classes all have the requirement that you must worship a single, specific deity. However, if you could only ever worship a single specific deity, wouldn't this be redundant as a requirement?

Interestingly enough, the Mystery Cultist prestige class doesn't have nearly as stringent of a requirement. It just requires that you worship an Empyreal Lord, without requiring it to be just a single specific one, nor does it require that you worship no other gods/deities besides the noted Empyreal Lord.

Can we get an Official FAQ on this?

I think it HAS to be ability drain for it to work. Ability damage doesn't ACTUALLY change your stat.

Is it actually possible to set "Aroden's Spellbane" as one of the spells that Spellbane prevents? There's no reason it won't just turn off your spellbane if you do, is there?

Kirth Gersen wrote:
Kaouse wrote:
Well, it's nice to finally have an answer.
I'm a guy with a job and a life outside of Paizo; nor is anyone playing KF a paying customer, so please cut me some slack on response time.

I know, and I thank you for taking the time out of your life in order to help answer these questions. I'm sorry if I came off as a little too snippity with my last response. I don't want you to sacrifice your job or your health or anything to answer some questions about a homebrew game.

Kirth Gersen wrote:
Kaouse wrote:
I guess the only real problem I have is that it means that Kirthfinder doesn't really play nice when attempting to integrate it into games using other systems.

That was never a design goal.

Yeah, this is entirely my fault, since I'm playing a Pathfinder game where my GM has been openly inclusive of a lot of different 3rd party subsystems (even some 3.5 material), and I petitioned him to allow Kirthfinder stuff even though he generally draws the line at homebrew.

Because of this, he didn't really have that much defense against Killing Stroke at the time (since he also didn't allow hero points), so I just decided it would be best to get rid of it.

(Surprisingly enough he was actually fine with it, but he ruled that if I wanted to keep it I would have to lose a bunch of different aspects to my character, since we were sort of building characters on a point-based pseudo Gestalt system).

For what it's worth, the current Savage Tide PBP has a character using Killing Stroke (they just hit 4th level). So fat it's been fun but not ridiculously OP -- the second time he used it, it killed one bad guy, and the rest quickly beat him comatose. We'll see how it works when he hits BAB +11.

It's nice to hear that this is working well with the rest of the Kirthfinder system, and hearing all of those other defenses (namely the hero point one) really set a lot of my fears to rest.

Well, it's nice to finally have an answer.

That said, I guess this means that Defiance / Heroic Defiance become necessary feats in order to survive a world where any level 11+ character can pick up Killing Stroke, Staggering Strike, and Feat Mastery: Killing Stroke in order to one-shot anybody without even needing to study them first.

I guess the only real problem I have is that it means that Kirthfinder doesn't really play nice when attempting to integrate it into games using other systems.

Darius Darkblade aka Legionare wrote:
Kaouse wrote:

He must mean a Mantle of Immortality, not a Mantle of Authority.

Of course in a theorycrafting battle, it's way cheaper to just implant a Nacreous Gray Sphere Ioun Stone.

So that's what we target with a dispel and watch as the weight of his own gear prevents him from breathing and he dies?

Hence why I mentioned the implantation of the Nacreous Gray Sphere Ioun Stone. Implanted stones can't really be targeted by Dispel Magic, or even Mage's Disjunction.

Darius Darkblade aka Legionare wrote:
A 20th level cleric/druid would be about the only thing that could take a 20th level wizard besides another wizard in a theory battle. And even then no one is ever really "getting the drop" on anyone else. It's gonna be what did you prepare today and how can it mess up what I have prepared. Best thing the cleric can do is drop a AMF on the wizard and wade in and beat him up.

I generally agree, though I think Oracles should definitely be added to the list of classes that can beat wizards in a theoretical battle. The amount of BS you can pull off with a Level 20 Oracle is pretty ludicrous.

He must mean a Mantle of Immortality, not a Mantle of Authority.

Of course in a theorycrafting battle, it's way cheaper to just implant a Nacreous Gray Sphere Ioun Stone.

Have you considered the far stronger option of just playing a straight Alchemist? Beastmorph Alchemist can get you natural attacks, and between mutagen and extracts, you'll find yourself hitting more and hitting harder than you were as a simple Shifter.

I guess this now brings up the question of, what type of action is it to use Defiance/Heroic Defiance? I always assumed that you could only do it on your turn (in which case, you're SOL against Killing Stroke) but I guess it's somewhat vague.

Killing Stroke works on any character, not just Rogues. That's the real threat here.

Staggered and Helpless aren't the same thing at level 1, sure, but they can be treated as the same thing if your character spends 3 rounds studying their opponent beforehand. Spend 4 rounds studying and you can Coup de Grace from Stealth against a Flat-Footed opponent.

That said, I suppose I misspoke a bit. You can't make a person staggered until Level 6 with a failed save against Staggering Strike, but at Level 11, the opponent is still staggered even if they make their save.

Combine that with 1 round of studying the opponent (or Feat Mastery applied to Killing Stroke), and your level 11 character can perform a Coup de Grace as a standard action against literally anybody within 1 round.

Note that there are remarkably few things that give immunity to the Staggered condition. Immunity to the Flat-Footed condition can be gotten from the Alertness feat. Daze and Stunned conditions can be suppressed with a Padma Blossom. But staggered is a bit harder to get standing immunity to.

Killing Stroke is rather powerful in it's current state, is all I'm saying. Unless there are some coup de grace rules I didn't read?

Staggering Strike, opponents damaged by the attack have to make a Fort save or be flat-footed, upgraded to staggered, then to dazed (for 1 round, then staggered 1d4+1 rounds), then to stunned (for 1 round + 1d4+1 rounds of stagger) as BAB increases. At BAB 11, the opponent is still staggered for 1 round even if they succeed their saving throw.

Its synergy text states: "A rogue using this feat in conjunction with a sneak attack increases the duration of the Staggered condition to 1 round per die of sneak attack damage."

So, does this apply to the staggered effect on a successful save, or does it only apply to the staggered effect on a failed save?

Also, Killing Stroke's synergy reads: "If you have the Staggering Strike feat, apply the results of that feat to the opponent before referencing whether the Killing Stroke applies (this is a specific exception to the general rule of non-stacking of Strike effects). "

Am I correct in stating that these two feats (Staggering Strike + Killing Stroke), both available from level 1, allow literally any character to execute any opponent who isn't immune to either crits or a whole host of conditions?

I strongly suggest just leaving the class features where they lie. As long as they have access to Kirthfinder feats, they're perfectly on par as it is. Doing any more than the bare minimum is just going to be a massive headache on not only you, but all of your players that you are forcing to learn the new rules. The simpler, the better.

You don't need them, you have spherecasting. That should suffice in most cases.

Warriorking9001 wrote:
Kaouse wrote:
Warriorking9001 wrote:
Also not to yabber about something that isn't related to the main KF experience but I have started to work on my own side to convert Spheres some... I would have kept to my own thread about this but that has died. Though I basically wanted to ask how things look so far on them. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rLe0-Wr_nZo90UlJ8EJxFWjkvryvRtsVljyC6zk M3C8/edit?usp=sharing
Is that the proper link for sharing? Google says the file doesn't exist.

Let's Try this again

Transcendence of the Spheres

I guess I'll also say my preliminary worry would be on the Mageknight page, since so far most of what I did was give it a bunch of new options based on its archetypes as a 'specialization'.

Edit: and the other worry is coming up for changes for the other classes to make them worthy.

I don't think you should worry too much about "archetypes" since they don't really exist in Kirthfinder. Instead, I would rather just give the Mageknight some Mystic Combats that allow for easier multiclassing synergy. Like, instead of rebuilding the Dustbringer, just give the Mageknight a Mystic Combat that gives them Strong Synergy (and perhaps full theurgy) with Monks.

This should save you a lot of time and effort, and should result in content that flows much more organically with the greater Kirthfinder project as a whole.

Warriorking9001 wrote:
Also not to yabber about something that isn't related to the main KF experience but I have started to work on my own side to convert Spheres some... I would have kept to my own thread about this but that has died. Though I basically wanted to ask how things look so far on them. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rLe0-Wr_nZo90UlJ8EJxFWjkvryvRtsVljyC6zk M3C8/edit?usp=sharing

Is that the proper link for sharing? Google says the file doesn't exist.

I think I heard word of Paizo using something similar to my idea of splitting up spellcasting components into different actions in Pathfinder 2E. Clearly Paizo frequents this thread for ideas to steal.

I would totally be fine with the Extra Channels/Day...if they weren't also a 9th level spellcaster. Numbers like that should mean that Channeling is ALL you do. Which is fine. I personally like the idea of using Channel Energy to do EVERYTHING.

Need to heal hp? Channel Energy (Positive).
Need to deal damage? Channel Energy (Negative).
Need to exploit elemental vulnerabilities? Channel Energy (Elemental)
Need to buff the party? Channel Energy (Buff)
Need to debuff enemies? Channel Energy (Debuff)
Need a bonus on skills? Channel Energy (Skills)
Need to clear enemy debuffs? Channel Energy (Restoration)

The possibilities are endless. I suggest taking a look at some of the Channel Energy feats in Spheres of Power. They're pretty sweet for a channel focused character, IMHO.

Do you have room for traits? Lessons of Chaldira / Second Chance may be useful.

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The fighter kills things with a big stick
The rogue deals with non combat challenges such as traps, social scenarios, and locked doors.
The Cleric keeps everyone alive via condition removal, healing, and buffs.

The Wizard does everything else.

And that "else" is only there because you assumed no overlap of niches.

You're probably going to want to trade out Barbarian for Bloodrager, so you can make better use of the Mad Magic feat.

The slight bit of Charisma you need for Bloodrager spells is more than paid for by the ability to actually make use of your swift actions (unlike with Moment of Clarity).

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