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KainPen's page

940 posts. Alias of Joshua Matherne.


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Ask your dm. Is the only real answer to give you, RAW and RAI, does not say you pick a group, only that if the weapon you choose with that feat, you can then apply that feat to all weapon of the group that they are in. RAW seems to suggest that since bardiche is in both the AXE and POLE group weapons, you get to use said feat on any one of the weapons in those two groups.

This really should not be a problem, because all the weapon feats that can be used for this are fairly low and weak feats, your talking +1 to hit, +2 damage or improved crit-range on limit selection of weapons.
Compared to barbarian raging and getting a bonus on all melee weapons, or a urban barb that use fineness weapon and ranged weapons get a bonus on all of them. which is a much larger grouping.

All this feat really does is saving you from having to retrain a few feats via retrain rules or your bonus feat every 4 levels as fighter, if you happening to find a better weapon. Say a +4 Great axe instead of your +1 bardiche

I think this is the result of bad cut and paste txt conversion from 3.X. Originally in 2.0 ranged weapons did not confrere bonus over to ammo, but the dr or damage immunity system was just like pathfinders Special Material or +x weapon. If I remember correctly 3.0 keep the same system with the bows, but the DR system became much worse, As you need +X or better and special materials. Thus a person needing a gulf bag of +5 what ever arrows along with +5 bow if you wanted a bonus to hit or just a bow.

3.5 change this when the dr system changed to just needing +1 bow with golf bag of effects or a gulf bag full of just arrows. added that line to reduce the cost of range combat. That is why the left over text is their about alignment being transfers over.

pathfinder used new DR system similar to 2nd edition, to reduce the gulf bag effect and to make it simpler. So the last line is not actual need any more, based on the way the new DR system works but looks like it was left in.

what is FCB?

yes you still suffer the penalty on the other attacks for TWF. so the closest RAW and RAI answer would be -7/-12. but you gm could change that but i doubt most would, unlike vital strike having major table variance based on what is seen in this thread.

TWF does not actual use full attack in it's language, due to it being assumed based on old system that is was a full attack and it was the only way to do more then one attack. based on the FAQ about two weapon fighting penalty and AOO, TWF penalty last till the end of your turn after deciding to fight in that manner.

boots of the cat cheep make this whole thing non issues. unless you have less then 20 hp.

Gavmania wrote:

Sure, that's why I put it in italics. People were using the term to mean all actions devoted to an attack action(1 at full Bab, next at -5, last at -10; an additional at -15 if you have haste or similar), and I can see it living on in that capacity if this system ever gets adopted widely.

yeah it is a fun system you should give it a try, While I saw other posted that haste giving at -15 attack, I don't see it doing that. the wording of haste spell stays the same much like you pointed out in vital strike. The haste spell calls out for that extra attack to be at highest bonus. the only difference and i think the notes clarify it the note by saying is they remove full attack from txt from the spell and basically replace it with haste granting you an extra action that must be used as an attack action. which makes sense haste spell already grants a bonus to movement and bonus to ac. there no need to mention it again in the note as grant extra move action as an option. it already included in the spell. the note is there to prevent another spell from being cast that is it. but you know that is another beauty of the system, it expected to have gm variance and let people figure how they want to rules to work. if you gm wants the haste attack and use the note as the completely how haste work. that is an option and I am fine with that.

I hope pathfinder explores the system some more in other books and maybe make a few more clarifications but not to many. Leaves it open of more DM/GM rulings and less rules lawyering. keep this system out of organized play completely. they can iron out the system more as it goes and make it default system for pathfinder 2.0 if that ever comes, around. Then it can be used for organized play.

Gavmania wrote:
Greylurker wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
Bandw2 wrote:
suddenly you can full attack with vital strikes...
Does it say that in the book? I'm pretty sure it's a two act action.

The feat in the core reads

When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage

and the Attack action in this system is 1 Act. So as written yeah full attack Vital Strike is allowed.

Individual DMs might decide otherwise but honestly .... I have no issues with a 6th level fighter carrying a long sword dishing out 6d8 to one target in a round when a 6th level wizard can dish out 6d6 to a half dozen or more at the same time.

And of course what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Any Monster with Vital strike gets to do the same

No. The quote says :
When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage

I have put the relevant part in italics. if you "full attack" under the new system, only one of your attacks is at your highest base attack bonus, the others being at -5 and -10 respectively. To get more use out of vital strike, you must be able to have more attacks at your highest base attack bonus. The only way I can think of to do that is to use Natural attacks, but if you use the 3 action use all attacks option, you are not using the attack action, I believe.

Similarly those who wish to take a single-attack animal companion and give them 3 attacks, well I'd say sure; but the second attack is at -5 and the third at -10. If you are willing to take that then why not? of course that means these extra attacks are not eligible for vital strike.

Full attack does not exist any more in the new system. Only the standard attack action does now, so it not a valid term to use or option, but the part you italicized is a good point to make. Thus allowing a person on the 1st attack which is at your highest bonus, only to be used with vital strike for those that don't want to allow it on all attacks or make it 2 actions. It good balanced out option and fit the original rules and keep the players with more options.

maybe Crimeo is getting confused by what little bit of language is left from 3.X cutting and pasting D&D polymorph school. Which didn't that lead to the creation of Pun Pun? Pathfinder changed the way polymorph works as a whole just changing shape, not actual type that was the whole intent of of the change was to make it similar and preventing pun pun at the same time.

I think Arikiel is looking for 4th edition conversion not the forgotten chromatic dragons posted in dragon mag for 1st edition, then again later for 2nd edition then again in Dragon Mag Compendium for 3.0 or 3.5 i don't remember when that book came out. But they included a 2nd yellow dragon, 1st for 3.x, Orange and purple, the pink dragon was left out of all conversion after 1st. but if he is looking for those. that his best place to find a starting point for shifting them to Pathfinder is the dragon compendium volume I from dragon mag. I think only feats and maybe giving them a few extra ability much like pathfinder dragons would be needed

If he is look 4th edition conversion,

the 4th edition purple was 1st, 2nd and 3.x Deep Dragon(under dark dragon) from forgotten realms setting renamed.

Grey Dragons where Fang dragons from Forgotten Realms monster compendium 3.0 book renamed

Steel while they did exist in 1st and 2nd edition(really nasty buggers), they are completely different from version used in those 4th edition, and i don't remember any 3.x version of it, I believe they where completely skipped. 4th edition steel dragon where original construction, not based off any other type of dragon to my knowledge.

Diego Rossi wrote:
PRD wrote:

The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day.

He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work.

From the text above, the 4 hours when out adventuring are an alternative to the 8 or 4 hours of straight work, not an addition.

Nothing prohibit you from speeding up the work you do during the adventuring days.

The tools bonus is for crafted mundane items, not magic items.
I doubt they work with the valet familiar, but that is an interpretation, the rules are unclear. The text seem to imply that you produce a fixed value of finished items.

Prd wrote:
The wielder may take raw materials with a value equal to half the price of an object to be crafted, and produce a finished object in as little as 1 hour for an item with a final cost of 2,000 gp or less. For objects with a final cost of more than 2,000 gp, the wielder can perform 2,000 gp worth of work in a single hour, but only once each day.

The tools say. "only once each day". That limitation stay even if you hand them to another creature. They can be used once day (read the thread about the pearl of power, there was a guy arguing that they were usable once a day by each character).

6 skill ranks aren't a class feature. UMD hasn't a skill check for emulating them.

Note: your GM can choose to hand wave some of the limits or houserule about emulating a skill (after all it isn't so different as emulating a characteristic or being able to channel positive energy).

where does it say in the tool bonus is for mundane crafting? you can craft magic items using the appropriated skill/ Profession check or use spell craft. The tools can apply the bonus when using them on said check. So if you have a set of tools for weapon crafting and are making a magical sword, you do get said bonus if you are using craft weapon check to make the sword magical. the last line of the item confirm that they work on that check, that and combination of

"However, in the hands of a craftsman with 6 or more ranks in the selected Craft skill, the greater power of the amazing tools of manufacture becomes apparent. The wielder may use the tools to create items using the Craft skill much more surely and quickly. The wielder may take raw materials with a value equal to half the price of an object to be crafted, and produce a finished object in as little as 1 hour for an item with a final cost of 2,000 gp or less. For objects with a final cost of more than 2,000 gp, the wielder can perform 2,000 gp worth of work in a single hour, but only once each day. Only a single skill check is required to successfully complete the item, made on the last day of crafting and gaining the +4 circumstance bonus granted by the tools."

Cooperative crafting will grant a total +6 on said check at the end of making said magical item. Since Circumstance bonus stack with other circumstance bonus.

I will agree with Diego Rossi, I don't think you get to double the tools bonus gp amount per day, with cooperative crafting, you would need two sets of the tools to do so. I see it as being very specific just granting you one time bonus of 2000 gp of work in the hour. So when you do a rush job for the day and use 5 of your use able 8 hours you can get 4000gp of work done in that time frame, free up 3 of those hours to do other things.

Blue Moose wrote:
the Anatomy Doll does 1 negative energy damage (and sickened) each round it's used. So, if you don't mind a more masochist route, it works for out-of-combat healing for a dhampir.

lol I think I see an unchained rouge or slayer in my future.

Zenogu wrote:
New question: If hasted, can a character make 2 vital strikes in 1 round?

that is up to GM, since the new action economy is built around mobility and less attacks per round and only standard action exist now. It could very well be that every attack can be a vital strike or the feat no longer function and must be removed from play. The feat chain was kind of weak before, consider the game was based around full attacking and not moving doing the most damage. I honestly don't think doubling the dice damage at level 6+ or 3 times at level 11+ ect is game breaking especially since it does not get multiplied on a crit and it feeds well into allowing it on every attack in the new system. It actual make it feel like the feat as a good investment and like the character is better at attacking/fighting. it can be used with charge now also where as before it could not. it really give to the flow of the system, as being smoother and more cinematic feel. Allowing a fighter to move from mob killing it then moving to into position for the next or if hasted taking two of them out. while your plowing your way to the BBEG.

I been play testing it last 3 game session and all my players like it. it is not broken or unbalances because the same tactic get to be use against PCS. Most of my players where only attacking once or twice in a round any way, choose to make more tactical choices. I also see other option that where almost never used actually being used, now like full defensive. My player would use that to run into reach of creature so he could attack next round or get into flank and help out a rouge, or they would intimate and demoralize some one after attacking one twice and killing it. kind like their characters are talking smack, like dead pool or spider man.

the game experience seems to be a positive change as whole for melee/ranged characters, and minor Nerf for casters as they lose a little have the potential to lose a little mobility if they choose to. I see them doing other things and options that they could do before. like elemental sorcerer spamming his 1st level blood line ability when he had nothing else to do, or did not feel like wasting a spell and actual Pit-Touched actual using his bloodline arcane. because he cast a spell then can intimate right after instead of having to wait a whole rd for his bonus.

I think there is also a feat, or alternate race trait that lets you count as both living and dead.

edit: it is a feat called Life-Dominat Soul

Jeraa wrote:

Flaming doesn't have a caster level requirement.

Moderate evocation; CL 10th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Price +1 bonus.

Spell Storing does.

Strong evocation (plus aura of stored spell); CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Price +1 bonus.

actual flaming and it is 10, they all have a caster level, it is need to determine the save of said item, if left untended and it manged to get hit by fire ball ect.

PRD link

Flaming: Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire that deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit. The fire does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given.

Moderate evocation; CL 10th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor and flame blade, flame strike, or fireball; Price +1 bonus.

and to the OP yeah it is not very logical but that is the rule.

the fact that you can ignore level requirements at all much less single +5 increase to the DC does not make any sense.

a level 3 caster can make belts of +6 perfection with very little investment and take 10 and not having to worry about making a cursed item. it is amazing cursed items exist at all according the the crafting rules and how easy it is to not make one. only thing stopping a character from doing it is the money.

Sunblade is a very specific item so you use the caster level listed in the box. Which is 10. actual a +1 Flaming sword requirement is Cl requirement is a 10. you take the great of of the caster levels.

as per this rule

Caster Level for Weapons: The caster level of a weapon with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus and no other abilities, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.

but note you can ignore the caster level requirement when crafting/upgrading and Item by adding 5 to the DC of the crafting check.

at least overrun and charge work with the unchained action economy now, we know that the way it is meant to work, just shame after 6 printing of core rule book it was never fixed.

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Zhangar wrote:

Ha, there's a thought eater.

So new to Pathfinder, but not necessarily new to D&D...

huh. And I bet that last animal is some sort of dire mantis shrimp.

I am sure it is a Dire Mantis Shrimp Run for your lives. have your ever seen true facts about the mantis shrimp on youtube. Those things are scary!

yep but that dragon is not born until 2000 years later outside of demi plane, you killed your self for nothing. lol

you could also make knowledge check got then shift to plane that has the required time frame. then go in another demi plan in side that plane then poof out. Ta da, all done before the fighter cooks egg for breakfast.

I think everyone get how bad of an idea this is.

Matthew Downie wrote:
KainPen wrote:
I would not allow it, it could be total broken in a matter of seconds, with the level of play you are at. if you allow the next thing will be scroll of greater demi plane and ring of substance, in a timeless or accelerated time frame. he pops out the plane once he has achieved Great Wyrm status and no time has passed to the pcs.

As I understand it, a timeless demi plane works like this:

A human enters a timeless demi-plane in the year 1500. He lives on the plane for 500 years without aging. He leaves the plane. It is now the year 2000. He suddenly ages 500 years.

And accelerated-time-frame ones are restricted to moderate speed increases.

While you could age up to an Ancient Wyrm like that, you'd be back too late to save the world from whatever evil you were supposed to be fighting.

I am not sure on the the timeless, I interpreted it as time is only moving on the that plain you just don't experience any of effects,of time while on it, and when you leave the effects based on how long you been in their hit you all at once. which why you need ring of substance. but timeless does not even really matter as stated in the flowing time section 1 year could = 6 seconds or 2rds. So dragon could be in their for 1200 years and only 200 seconds go by in the real world. either way it is not a good idea to let it happen.

I always limit wish of my players to 20 something words. so if they do wish for something crazy like this, i can shut it down easily, but say yes your wish works but you will not become a silver dragon until die from old age.

I would not allow it, it could be total broken in a matter of seconds, with the level of play you are at. if you allow the next thing will be scroll of greater demi plane and ring of substance, in a timeless or accelerated time frame. he pops out the plane once he has achieved Great Wyrm status and no time has passed to the pcs.

way of the wicked AP has rules for Lawful evil anti paladins.

I cannot 2nd what Malag said enough.

Character death's should not have effective them. Dying does not actual take away a level any more like it did in 3.0 D&D. it just grants negative level based on how they where raised. which is a status just - 1 to all skill checks, attacks, saves, abilities function as one level lower and -5 hp per negative level. you don't actual lose the levels. So you may owe those guys their levels back lol.

I think pathfinder changed that so people would not just said screw it and make a new character and start at the same level as the rest of the party. Because of that in the past I used do what where doing Piece make them start new characters at 1 level lower then rest of the party and same for new players. to make it fair for those that did not die or have been playing longer then other. I find since that rule change I actual have players swapping characters less and actual seeking restoration to get rid of negative levels.

but keeping everyone the same level and ignoring xp and only really having to monitor treasure of people that make new characters. Is really useful and saves so much time on the GM side. I don't even worry about wealth by level any more, I just run the encounters I want to run. If my group is large and I am running a AP or prewritten game. I just had a few more monsters and adjust said treasure to adjust for the number of players. it tend to balance it self out that way.

Make it CR 15 dragon by add a half fiend template to it. keep to them ignore harpy's waste of time they will be push overs. Add 3 frost drakes with fiendish template.

the homebew monster is going to really through a wrench in to the mix as their is no way to really tell if it truly a cr 12 monsters.

environment also play into the encounter, and it's effectiveness of the monster.

ignore CR's they are a waste of time since they fall apart when you have large parties because treasure gets divided way to many times, characters end up behind on gear or even xp.

your guys are all over the place in level. when you have this many player best to ignore xp all together, and just level at set points in your story. Then you don't end up with this odd number as everyone is the same level. It a bit easier to find encounters for them.

It is the last fight go big or go home lol. If they die if they win then and it easy does not matter more power to them.

real question is that the encounter you want to run?

Skylancer4 wrote:

In our party's experience, when something was so difficult, it was usually poor party composition for the fight. So the standard tactics we employeed were tossed out the window and left us scrambling with no preparations.

I have a feeling this is part of the case here. I ran into stuff like this before, like had two players who were so stuck on their builds so much the two weapon Mobile fighter and two handed fighter, with vital strike refused to use bows or even pick up one encase of emergency. they know they where in a game with lots of dragons, but sold every bow they ever found. So when they encountered a Wyrm Green Dragon in a very dense forest it started to preform strafing attacks they where in cable of doing anything to it. Fly potions they had did not help because they where hinder by the environment while the dragon got to ignore it. So They where basically two men out in the party and it lead to TPK. They where mad because they expect a creature with over 20 int and wisdom and 1000 years of experience to stop and fight them on the ground.

I notice players often over specialize now a days, got another one while playing way of the wicked, playing a Sorc that specializations in enchantment and charms, and against normal appoints he super effective, to the point of overly effective, but the moment he runs into undead or creatures immune to mind effects, this character is completely shut down. because it's only offense are these abilities.

But it is a function of water telekinesis, which is it own standard action to activate and is subject to concentration.

rd 1 creature spend standard action to activate water telekinesis, if the creature is hit at all during this round it must make a concentration not a constant ability like it's ability to speak with sea creatures.

rd 2 the creature can use it water telekinesis to attack with a water spout as standard action. It functions as the spell Telekinesis and require concentration to use, so again subject to these checks again. odds are every round and every attack the creature is going to have to make these checks and will fail at some point and have to spend and have to restart the process taking 2 round to reactive water telekinesis again.

Thus it takes two rd to preform.

I know it a water creature but concentration is called for based on Vigorous motion while casting or concentrating. the the waves of the water is going to cause a vigorous motion, similar to riding a mount or spell caster on a ship. thus another check for that. it is unlikely to fail that check but it should still be rolled. Considering it has +14 to the check add the dc is 16, but if it rolls a 1 it still fails.

Also ready action effect this greatly as that is how combat on boat vs a sea based creature. Everyone ready attacks with their bows and cold iron arrows when the creature comes in site and then fires. the wizard or Sorc does the same with scoring ray or a fire ball spell. the vulnerability to fire in the creature and Scorching ray will most certainly cause the concentration failure. considering the minimum damage is going to cause a Concentration check of 17 at the lowest. The Cr is not that bad because of this.

I can't remember if SU ability normal require concentration but for this creature and that function if does call maintain concentration is required.

I think the cr is fair, for a solo encounter creature for a level 4 or 5 party.

Suggest to make this easier fog cloud,or some other kind of miss chance spell for ranged attacks draw it in and grapple and pull it out the the water.

Maybe gm missed this, it take two rounds to use the water spouts, it must use one standard action to activate water telekinesis, then another to actual use the ranged attack, you must concentrate to maintain. it so concentration checks every time it gets hit. eventual it will fail, also few scorching rays could take it out.

how fast does the boat move, can the creature keep up if it constantly has to feel battle to heal up and reactivate or use it's abilities and come back to the boat. All they have to do is drive it away. or even negation would have been an option on the encounter possible it is CN alignment. they don't have to battle everything to beat an encounter and get rewarded, they just have to over come it. That includes driving it off.

Also normally pc's know when they are getting on boats and may have a water based encounter and should prepare for such. potions of water breath maybe scrolls of freedom of movement.

yeah the rules are a mess, charge also you requires you to stop in the closest square that you can attack from and all your movement is ended. over run does not grant you any more movement to actual over run the person. It does not work with charge because of that also. it also the reason why you can't doing a charging ride by attack like you see in jousting tournaments. This why they are saying you have to have a GM willing to go with RAI, be cause the RAW rules kill each other making them not work at all. I am still surprised after 6 printing of the core rule book none of this was ever fixed.

The only fix seems to be the unchained action economy, by changing charge to just movement no attack involved and over running granting movement as part of it's action to well over run something.

ok I see what you are saying, I was not thinking of it as an attack, but as a skill check. because that what it is.

New action Economy: Feint having attack subtype, and Improved Feint removes this, should it not have this subtype to start. Feint don't Provoke Aoo, or do they under the new action Economy? As it stand losing the sub type does nothing at all and so does improved feint.

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it is do able, I had a ground of 14 before, I normally run games with a group of 8.

one options for doing this make up your own story but take maps and encounters from pre made adventures. this will speed things up for you.

ignore XP for leveling just level the group when you adventure says they should be x level.

double the size of the rooms in each map. if it says the room is 50 by 50 make it 100 by 100 this give more room for players and creatures to move around.

Ignore difficulty, make the game easier, it will be easier on them and you. this can be done by making all characters 25 point by or doing the add give them max hp per level.

Creatures since you have a huge party increase the numbers double, but reduce their hp, by 1/3, this will make the game go faster with the large group and make all the pc feel powerful. as they will all have a creature to target or help out with and defeat them quickly allowing everyone to get a turn. only make boss battle challenging. double the number of boss creatures max out hp on them.

remove complex unneeded rules like AOO even the ones from reach ones, they slow things down, charging, mounted rules and mounts abilities to attack.

treat mounts as a speed increase to the player only.

ect. and explain to the players since the group is so large you are cutting out some of the rules and features to speed up play and so they all enjoy it.

let them do crazy stuff that is not in the rules. don't even worry about if there is a rule about it, or a roll. Say rouge wants to jump off a hill and stab some one in, let them do it and give him sneak attack for it don't even bother with the acrobatic check.

basically don't get hung up on rules are trying to make it difficult, but be fair and consistence in any rulings you need to make.

just give them skill focus in there chosen skill as a free campaign feat. I am running Way of the Wicked right now and that game calls for all PC to get 2 extra skill points per level. It strong but not game breaking. It is also something that will get even better when they hit level 10 or higher depending on number of ranks.

it happens a lot maybe , my luck has fared better then most I guess. I made it through 4 whole 2nd edition games when I was a player and with my family 5th one died out as my uncle who house we played at got to busy with other social activities.

In high school ran a 2nd edition game for my friends made they made from level 1 to about level 16 they had about 8 more levels to gain before the end of the game, my uncle wrote this super high powered adventure i used for the last part of the camp. There where 14 players and they just start to fight to much with each other, over girls and other stupid personal crap in game.

The group shrunk and another guy decided to run a Mech Warrior game. we finished that. then everyone graduated and went off to college and what not. Only two of those guys stuck around. We found some 4 new players re-ran my high-school game and actual finished it. then we moved on too Vampire Masqueraded finished a campaign I GMed and like 3 others camps with another gm.

stopped playing for a year or so 3rd edition game out a new friend from college was playing it via wizard version of organize play. he gm ed a few adventures, I did a few, another guy did a star-wars adventures but no serious campaign. the started group changed slightly by adding more players one or two got to busy and stopped playing

So I started one, I ran that for over 7 years all player became epic level 24 was the average level. They where about half way through when I need a break must have been level 16 or 17 at the time. most of the original guys that finished that redo of my high school game dropped out. At this point, I think only 3 remained out of that group of 6. but 4 of the college friend where still going strong. One guys ran a d20 modern game we finished that, Then I did a DBZ game we finished. Went back to my campaign. They got to about level 24 when few of the players start to squabble with each other and everyone job scheduled had changed so it made it hard to play, so I decided to take a break.

Join another group that my uncle was playing with and got thru 3 campaigns was working on a 4th, around Campaign 2 with this other group by this time I was ready to convert over to 3.5, the college friend groups work scheduled seem to align again we started a new game. 5 month into the game Hurricane Katrina hit and scatters us every where.

a year later I end up back home and started new game, 2 guys from high school came back to play, 2 of the guys from college and another one would just pop his head in and play when he could, and one of my family members and a brother in law. We finished that game end level 18 3.5 game.

I was burned out on dming again, need to start teaching someone else how to do it. I got one of the other college guys to dm a short adventure so he could experiencing dming. I was getting sick of 3.5 at this point and we tried playing 4th and could not stand it. Also found VTT at this point, So ran a 2nd edition game with them they got to about level 5. I need a break then we did a new vampire game, finished that, another guy wanted to do one of those we did that one finished that, went back to 2nd edition to finished the game. went back to vampire with the crap hit the fan, group broke up, only like 3 people where still around 1 guy from college, brother in law and family member. we played board games and stuff for about 6 months when I found out about pathfinder, one my uncles moved back in town and picked up a friend from work to start playing and found another friend that wanted to play.

I ran 2nd darkness that I converted over to pathfinder rule set, put it in my VTT completed it, then someone else ran a game, we finished it. One of those guys drop out due to work. Then so my other uncle came to play with us.

I converted that old 2nd edition adventure my uncle wrote into a pathfinder game and putt and ran that until they got 3/4 through it and it turned it to TPK, using the 2nd darkness characters they had.

I was running Way of the Wicked finished book 2, Group changed a little bit here two, my two uncles stopped playing. I got behind on putting it into a VTT do to some personal stuff. Another guy decided to dm a game he had completed and was not running his game via VTT. so that where we are now, and I am getting back to putting Way of the wicked in to my VTT in the mean time. we should finish it and this game also.

So I am surprised I actual made it through so many full campaigns

yeah you could, but maybe the character has something else that is awesome about his natural attack, like a make poison on a bite. Or maybe the natual attack is a secondary attack and is a primary and gets 1.5 times str and will do more damage then the weapon. the extra attacks in the old system where often weak any way low damage. maybe the developer felt it best to phase it out just like the 4th attack, it miss most of the time any way so it was kind of useless and just takes up table time.

Also the new system is setup for you to make judgement calls as GM and revamp some stuff.

example barbarians bite rage power,you have to adjust it to fit the new action economy or get rid of it all together. you can adjust it in the following ways. you can make it grant free attack on your first action used to attack, much like two weapon fighting.

or you can change it from a secondary attack to primary as per what bites are in the monster rules and since it the characters only natural attack follow those rules. meaning it gets str and half.

there lots of other things that could make a player choose to do his natural attack over weapon attack, maybe he is grappled and has a two handed weapon. or he use a reach weapon and he use it to threats in the 5ft squares next to him.

there are still tons of uses for it.

my example about pounce for example is a good suggestion I see is to have it allow to be it own complex 3 action. That allows for half distance charge and all natural attacks. This brings the power of it down a bit to scale with new action system. keep the ability special for creatures that do have it.

it is required if you have an AC, so you can teach it tricks and command it in battle. you should be make rolls all the time for it in that case. if you don't have a AC you don't really need it. it option for when you travel by horse or as Manve if is a long term game you can use it to raise some strange creatures to use.

to use improved two weapon fighting you must use 2 actions and all 3 action to do greater.

Make all natural attacks takes up all 3 action so it can't be combined with two weapon fighting or single attack.

you must spend an action to make make a secondary natural remain the same.

full round attack do not exist any more in this system.

you could two weapon fight with your first action, then on 2nd action take natural primary or secondary attack at -5 penalty or attack roll.

you just follow the rules for secondary attacks if it is a secondary attack, half str damage ect.

The new systems balances out combat a lot better and caster tend to take a hit in this area. in the new system combat maneuvers especial one like over run work now. Also the new system makes Vital strike feats not a trap any longer. So you could do Vital strike with your natural attacks. the new systems looks like it was ment to kill the need for pounce builds. since pounce does not function with in that system with out some GM intervention.

I was thinking of making Frog from Chrono Trigger figure Boggard Paladin, but looks like Grippli would work a little better. but I did notice Grippli need a feat to do it. Thanks for the info.

Subject says it all. what do you think?

Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:

You can grab a feat to add str to Intimidate... and we have shown you can REALLY ramp up str... lets see...

Half Orc mutagenic fighter
Get EH (orc)

EH orc will give you +12 to str by itself (+6 inherent, +6 size). Since the orc doesnt count as a polymorph effect, you can use use your mutagen for more str....

Skill focus for intimidate.

I forgot the feat to use str for intimidate

And all of this also ramps ypue damage...

This is what I do for my builds like this. you get the size increase also so you are not taking a pen on as many creature bigger then you. pick up reach also immunity to fear and some natural armor.

I don't waste my time with dazzling displayed or shatter defenses, just not worth it for non rogue. and ORC bloodline is giving you so much more any way. dex is often not very high or giving a lot of ac later on in the game anyway. Since creatures just keep getting bigger. the game is made STR and con goes up creatures get bigger and harder and dex goes down. some creatures have touch ac of 0 or lower because their dex is so bad.

to saldiven

Yeah that is your build but not what OP present who say it was easy. whom I was replying too. you are heavily invested in that skill set to give you more so then him. by picking race, class options, ect. as you posted.

he just said power attack and smash. that is not enough to make it easy. that was my point you have to build for it, to make it easy and it gets hard and hard the more levels you gain it does not get easier. it requires more investment, either magic items or more feats ect.

see any ancient Dragon DC is stupidly high. even at level 16 he going odds are he not going to be successful

Black Dragon DC 40 before even adding the wisdom bonus.
or cloud Giant 1 cr higher then you posted is dc 37 including the size adjustment. those are not easy numbers to make for some one that did not invest heavily into it.

your build I bet does not completely dumping CHA is also and obvious you are adding a ton more then power attack smash. I never said it could not be done to be easy, just that it require serious investment to be easy and pointed out ways to do it.

I also did not suggest it was a bad idea or build I said it is pretty good as long as you have smash but it does require investment to be effective and easy.

HWalsh wrote:

Also note:

To intimidate a target you only need to hit DC 10 + HD + Wisdom Modifier, meaning, for most targets it...

It not as easy as it seems. It still a good path to go and good perks since they are mostly free or using a swift action. but It just requires a got bit more investment then what you have listed to be truly effective or easy.

The odds are things you are going to be fighting are going to be at your hit dice or greater. this nullifies skill points point into to intimidate.

Most medium size creatures Usually have a decent wisdom +1 or 2 mods. Now creature that are not medium size are going to be bigger then you. you take a -4 to this check for every size category they are bigger then you. they continue to get bigger as you level. that is the way the game was made.

Most people that go this route dump CHA meaning you are already in hole big time due to size issues and it based on using a dump stat for most melee characters. This means less then 50% chance of success. that is not easy, now you can invest more to make it easier, skill focus is a must, as well as any background traits, and that feat that lets you add str into the skill with cha mod. this will put you on averaged about 65% chance of success. That is still not easy and take more investment to get the numbers better. you will need persuasive. then you should be good at calling it fairly easy roll. that is heavy investment to make it easy vs large creatures and things of your size. you need magic items to push it over the top so it can be easy vs bigger then large creatures.

If you want this build I always suggest making it a fighter only cause you will need all the feats,or another class that did not dump cha. good suggestion I also make on point by build is instead drop your str at the start by 1 or 2 points of your original target point. this should free up points to give you decent cha and, you are going to make it up by using eldritch heritage orc blood line at the later levels.

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I don't think Strong jaw stacks with Improved natural attack. I belive the min/maxers already figure out 16d6 was maximum

Doesn't the Scythe meld into your body when you change? I don't think you get to use it any way. I guess you could drop it to the ground, change and pick it up again. that waste lots of time in combat, guess out of combat not a bad idea.

For those that have either been or run this AP, for chapter 3 what map did you use for the events at the battle of saintsbridge. there are several battle that in that section that have to be done by pcs, but there was no map supplied with the AP for the pc battles. All it comes with is the large area map where each square is over 100 yards. that make it almost impossible to use because the scale is to big. it a great reference map but can't really be used for combat. I know a lot of the events you can use just any old open field map, but there are few that take place on very specific terrains. I can't seem to find a suitable map to use.

yes that is correct, it actual makes more sense this way also as moving target even ones running directly at you are harder to hit then those standing in one place. You spend 2 of your 3 action to run at someone and gain a bonus to hit with your 3rd action. you don't get to attack with the charge anymore. it say just has to end in a square next to target. You have to spend another action to attack. it also no longer seems to function with pounce any more.

this also fixes issues with bull rushing and over running with charge, so they actually can function now with in the rules. before over running was impossible due to having to end next to target you could not keep moving before. Now both of these are simple actions that you can preform after you charge and get a bonus to use because you charged.

still not sure if it fixed all the mount combat issues but I think it does help them out.

the vampire could have a second coffin and got away. That what I would do good chance for reoccurring villain especially since they think they destroyed the coffin.

thread nerco recorded? 4 years?

ran this with one Dhampire it was none issue. 2 might be little rough, but considering they are both Sorcerers should also be none issue as they should not be in the front fighting, if they free grumble jack he should be doing most of damage if any is required at all. the whole point of the 1st part is to escape unnoticed. so you should not be fighting at all.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Bring back the 10 foot exception for medium pole arms.

"Attack them from the north west!

"Why's that captain?

"Pole arms don't work in any direction but due north due south due east or due west!

You either need to write in an exception to how a pole arm threatens, OR you need to write in an exception changing threatened squares to a threatened "Area" that doesn't show up well on the grid.

They added it back

4 year old nerco wow.

since you mention the tall Giant limited 5ft step, lol think of the dexterity that would be required do take such a small step when the creatures natural stride would be 15+ft. I always find it funny these massive creatures like giants and dragons end up in the smallest layers, according to most battle maps. I often wonder how they even got into those rooms. considering the rest of the hallways are like 10ft wide and the dragons are 25 to 30ft space hogs. how tall are the ceiling to all these rooms lol some of them are often described as being 10 to 15ft tall. how did that 20ft tall giant even get in that room does he crawl through the hall way every day. The rooms size for a dragon that is over 200ft long are often equivalent to one of us living in one of those small prebuilt tool shed you see outside home depot, and then filling it 3 quarters full with treasure living in that and we are also having to fight in it. most of the time the dragon can take only take 3 or 4 5ft steps and have covered the whole room. It just some of those things just have to expect and not try to think about to much.

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