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I you’re better off taking multi weapon fighting over two weapon fighting. more attacks at high bonus. I would not even worry about sais and skip on the weapon master. you will do a lot more damage with just unarmed strike and disarm just as well. I am more partial to martial artist monk.
Also you can't two weapon fight or multi weapon fight and flurry. in of itself is superior no off handed can be done with a monk weapon single weapon. And give the monk bab = to class level. There is actual no reason to play a race with four arms because of that. If I was to play that Race I would do mobile fighter. That way you can move and full attack with all those arms. you can still Specialize in sai then. you will have more feats to play with also.
Mythic = Rocket Tag one hit kills. Don't allow it if you don't want damage to get crazy. Since that is a mythic AP, expect the roles to reverse them later levels. When monsters have the same ablitys and dual init which is supior to amazing init.
number 1 is for item creation if you are going to make a +1 flaming sword you must be level that of the flaming property to make it. I think it is level 6 or 9. If it a +4 Flaming weapon you would use the +4 level requirement for making the item as it the higher level requirement. As that is 3 time the enchantment bonus for level 12. This is also the property level that effects the items saving throws if it is left alone or if you fail saving throw on a 1.
2) you pick what you want as gm. or you can use the random generator in ultimate equipment book
3) Matt answer this one for you.
4) take the highest one as stated in your first question.
here bit of bonus for you. caster level can be ignored in item creation. by adding +5 to the dc of crafting the item.
Fighter, rouges are not to bad, but play more fighter then rogue, you really should be fighter with dips in rogue.
Since you are doing 15 point buy, i would reduce my dex,and raise my str. Check with DM and see if he will allow Agile weapon property first. if so then keep the drop the dex about 2 points and raise your str or wis. you are paying so much to specialize in dex and get it that high you are actual weakening your self more then you need to for a +1 or 2. You are also restricting your feat selection. you really really want to have at least a 13 str so you can get power attack. It is kind of mandatory for melee character it increased your damage more then sneak attack will. if you are going to stick with the character as he is.
My Suggestion to you would be to play a Scout based Rogue and mobile Fighter. It is a hit and run kind of build. And switch to half elf this will get rid of minus you have from theifling. Give you two favored classes So you can take hp every time you level so no need for toughness feat. and you pick up skill focus.
Str 14 +2 = 16 From Race half elf increase at level 8,12,16,20
11 levels of fighter 9 Rogue
1 Rogue 1 Dodge, skill focus acrobatics (better for hit and run) or use magic device.(open up what you can do in and out of combat.)
2 Fighter 1 Power Attack (no penalty on 1st swing of power attack)
3 Rogue 2 Minor Magic(suggest read magic one less use magic device check when reading scrolls) feat: Furious Focus (no penalty)
4 Fighter 2 Mobility, bonus to saves vs slow, entangle stuff like that
5 Rogue 3 Spring attack
6 Rogue 4 Fast Stealth and Scout’s Charge (sneak attack on charge attacks I don't like this one as it puts you in harms way with minus to ac and your ac is already going to be bad, just cause your a rogue in light armor.)
7 Rogue 5 feat Arcane strike since you have minor magic(extra damage as swift action)
8 Rogue 6 Any Rogue talent you want
9 Rogue 7 Fleet (stacks each time you take extra 5ft of movement +boots of speed and haste and hit and run with spring attack becomes easy.)
10 Rogue 8 Skirmisher(move 10 + feet and 1st attack consider sneak attack) any rouge talent you want.
11 Fighter 3 Armor Training 1 (and can move full speed in medium armor but you won't do that other wise use lose fleet feat bonus movement)Feat Fleet again or maybe improved critical.
12 Fighter 4 any combat feat your choosing I would say deadly aim, Because I like doing decent damage with a bow. weapon specialization if available. normal feat: iron will cause your will is going to suck or fleet again.
13 Fighter 5 Leaping Attack move more then 5ft and you get +1 to hit and damage works any weapon even bow, that why i said deadly aim earlier. Feat: your choice
14 Fighter 6 Again combat feat your choice, and another feat your choice
15 Fighter 7 Armor Training 2 and can move full speed in heavy armor.
16 Fighter 8 your choice of feat
17 Fighter 9 your choice of feat leap attack jump to +2 to hit and damage
18 Fighter 10 your choice of feat
19 Fighter 11 feat your choice (this is the icing on the cake rapid attack full attack and move. first attack again is the only sneak attack unless you have improved invis or they are actual flat footed)
I am sure I can optimize this more but this is just on the fly build. it will get you some decent damage and you keep lot of rogue style in it.
Vital strike chain could work well with this build also, combat expertise and whirlwind attack are options also reach weapon and lunge.
I would not worry about combat reflex's unless you plan on use a reach weapon tripping people or have some one else in the group that has a way of helping you provoke aoo. Especially since you are in a smaller group and using only 15pt by. leadership is option on boosting the party.
also Eldritch Heritage feats and orc blooding is great for build also if you don't skimp on cha. and change the skill focus bonus feat to survival. will net you +12 to str large size reach, + 4 to con, -2 dex =( immunity to fear and + 6 natural armor.
you could also go strait elf it will get you the ability to use elven curved blade as martial weapon it is finesse able has a high crit range and does 1d10 damage. also bonus damage on power attack since it two handed weapon.
Mostly focus rogue I think is going to be bad for your group as you already have multi class based ranger druid. you going to have weaker healing option because of that and no tank to absorb damage and keep them people of your spell casters. That why you dip in rogue or as others stated pick another class with archetype that gains trap finding.
until we see the book, there was a very heavy discussion and debate on how prepared casting did not work well for the hunter at the end of the play test. The idea was that making them spontaneous caster like the bard would work better and use the bards spell progress and spells known but make a combined druid / ranger spell list. SKR was involved in the debate at the end of the play test. Said they where going to consider it. The more we talked to him about it seemed like the more he was into it. So we may get our first divine 6 spell level spontaneous caster in that book. He did not seem to hot on giving them ranger and druid spell list. I know they where not going to over hauling during the play test, but several of the classes where over hauled some more then other in the play test and one was out right revamped before the end of it. Keep your fingers crossed.
CHA = Orcbloodline = better than normal fighter, by not using cha as dump stats and starting with a lower str 15 or 16 and raising cha. you net +12 str, +4 con, large size, reach, +6 natural armor and immunity to fear. you could even end up with a few points to actual put in int giving you more skill points making the fighter useful outside of combat and it is just as strong as if you went str fighter. take dangerously curious back ground trait and now you have decent us magic device score leading you to be able to get permit see invisibility through scroll and other spell, use magic in general. All based of CHA. building intimidate based fighter don't skimp on cha or str and with this bloodline you end with intimidate skill check in the 50's before you even roll your d20. nothing you can't intimidate unless immune to fear.
Looking for STR boost and bonus to poison saves small energy resistance = Cha will get you that through Abyssal blood line
CHA is not just a dump stat anymore. want a fighter who can fly at will try any of the other blood lines. want 15ft reach touch attack, spell resistance and fortifcation. CHA will get your that.
I used d20pro for my VTT. It does most of this and more, it is also open and flexible to program and adjusting for more games than pathfinder. It also included hero lab and pc gen character generator importing. does auto rolling if you want damage. It really speeds up the game. My guys get through 3 to 5 high level encounters in night because of it. 7 to 10 low and mid-level encounters. D20pro does cost 20 or 30 bucks for GM lic. So you can do all the programing. They also have huge 3rd party support from the Frog God Games. They are starting to publish their adventure in side d20pro so all the maps monsters fog of war is all setup for you so you just drop characters in and play. They recently had a kickstarted for this and add every monster from tomb of horrors 1-4 into the program. This is all pay content, you could very well do all of this yourself but it take a lot of time. So you basically pay for not having to program all this yourself. Save you tons of time.
I don't think you are going to find nice 1 in any program because it limits the program, to something that does not exist in the game world. as in all game system at some point creatures can climb, swim, fly, burrow, and even feats that ignore difficult terrain. So there is no such thing as impassable. It just not currently passable. A lot of VTT will give you markers to place on the ground to mark such terrain. so your players know it is difficult terrain and you just have to do the movement math the same as before that you did on old table math.
I never used rolld20 so I can't make any judgments on that or compare it to anything. I have played around with fantasy grounds and while it looks really pretty and has all the fluff I eventual want to see in other VTT, such as grabbing dice and actual see them roll across the screen. The menu I it find pain to navigate around in and it also cost money.
Well Maptools have everything you want in and is free. It has a fog of war and dynamic lighting is un surpassed by any other VTT. But it is a not very user friendly for programing and adding extra features. While it can do it, it just not easy to do. I notice dm using it have to down load other program to keep track of hp, init order stuff like that.
recently the guys at d20pro have partnered directly with the guys that make hero labs. to help program it and make it even better. They also teamed up with a group that make LCD touch panel surface, to push VTT into the next steps for guys like you and me that Still actual play at a table. I used the internet features when a guy can’t make a game, there is also lan support for guys at the table that want to control their own stuff.
no matter VTT you use. Welcome to the new age of gaming. VTT helps make your games more fun and speed them up.
see optional armor rules p.198 of Ultimate combat book, there are rules for this by piecing a whole suite of armor together, basically full plate is made from breast plate and other pieces or armor. with these rules you are wearing more than one type of armor, but you can't get any higher than full plate. This help support over lapping rules and realistic construction of armor. As you wear chain mail then strap on a breast plate then add gauntlets , greaves ect. to make a suite of full plate
Kazumetsa Raijin wrote:
Max Dex does not work like that Raijin, All it does is limit the maximum amount of AC mod you can get to ac and touch ac. your init, reflexs ,cmd skill checks aoo are not affected by it. Otherwise you be talking double penalties on skill checks. So it does even out for total ac, but touch and flat footed end up different.
you should never let a pc play a noble drow. they are too powerful. CR does not match well. Note Cr of noble drow in the books are based off having low stat score build of stats. they are not actual rolled or useing higher level stats. Same when going into consideration when pc play monsters. you treath them as just that the monster. Noble drow have a RP of close to 40 or over this is 4 times a human. If i remember correctly the Advanced race guide tell you that every 12 points are so is equal to 1 actual level. so Noble drow come up are worth like 3.5 levels. If the pc want to play a Noble drow I suggest you have them rebuild the character as a normal drow and take the drow feats that make him or her a noble drow gives them all the powers over time. It is a chain of like 4 or 5 feats. this will help balance out the race. Then the template monsters become less of an issues..
ok Game system we all start with strait 14s in every score and can take points out of them and put them where ever. So long as we don't go over the score of an 18 before racial bonus kick in. Campaign is Curse of Crimson throne no spoilers please. DM has told us it is mostly a urban campaign. This is what I got so for tell me what you think and if I should change anything. For weapons I am thinking Armor Spikes and Shield, back up Bow
Level 1 urban Ranger
Favored Classes Ranger/Fighter (Have not picked bonus yet)
Bonus Feat from Race Skill Focus Survival
Back Ground Traits Reckless (combat) and Dangerously Curious (Magic)
Favored Enemy Human
Level 2 Urban Ranger
Combat style Weapon and Shield, Improved Shield Bash
Level 3 Urban Ranger
Trap Finding and Favored Community (Suggestion?)
Level 4 Urban Ranger 3/ Fighter Brawler 1
Increase Cha to 16
Level 5 Urban Ranger 4/ Fighter Brawler 1
Hunters Bond (hunting companions)
Level 6 Urban Ranger 4/ Fighter Brawler 2
Bonus feat Two Weapon Fighting
Level 7 Urban Ranger 5/ Fighter Brawler 2
Feat: Shield Slam
Level 8 Urban Ranger 6/ Fighter Brawler 2
Ability Pont Str 17
Level 9 Urban Ranger 6/ Fighter Brawler 3(Fighter from here on out)
Close Combatant +1 to hit +3 damage with shield and armor spikes
Level 10 Urban Ranger 6/ Fighter Brawler 4
Bonus Feat: Greater Bull Rush
Level 11 Urban Ranger 6/ Fighter Brawler 5
Feat: Improved Eldritch Heritage: Strength of the Beast +2 to str
Level 12 Urban Ranger 6/ Fighter Brawler 6
Bonus Feat: Disruptive
Level 13 Urban Ranger 6/ Fighter Brawler 7
Close Combatant +2 to hit +4 damage with shield and armor spikes
Menacing Stance enemies adjacent to me not take a -1 to attack roll and -4 penalty on concentration checks
Feat Improved Eldritch Heritage: Fearless: immune to fear +2 natural armor
Level 14 Urban Ranger 6/ Fighter Brawler 8
Bonus Feat: not sure what to take
Level 15 Urban Ranger 6/ Fighter Brawler 9
Level 16 Urban Ranger 6/ Fighter Brawler 10
Level 17 Urban Ranger 6/ Fighter Brawler 11
Feat: Greater Eldritch Heritage: Power of Giants become large +6 to str, +4 Con and natural armor -2 dex size bonus for 17 mins a day 1 min uses
Close Combatant +3 to hit +5 damage with shield and armor spikes
Menacing Stance enemies adjacent to me not take a -2 to attack roll and -5 penalty on concentration checks
I doubt I get any higher level than that if I did figure not sure what I would level as Brawler another +1 to bull rush and 2 more feat
Urban ranger would get me evasion and a 2nd favored community and push thru and swift tracker and lot more skill points but nothing that is game changing at this point. Any suggestion.
they are flat cost only just like adaptive as i stated above, they are in those tables to reflect random location when rolling random treasure. if you look at cost vs cost of adaptive and those other props, you will see the price is much higher in the flat cost, so they are placed in the +2 table to reflect that difference when determine random loot.
those table are setup that way for random rolls based cost for treasure genration. Stronger ones cost more and end up as higher level powers see improved shadow on armor ect. they are flat cost and do not count as a +.
Doomed Hero wrote:
The part I put in brackets is wrong, Vital strike only double the dice not the + of the weapon so it would be 4d8+2.
Also Foe Biting I don't think works with vital strike as Vital strike is not a normal attack. You can do one or the other but not both.
I am not even going to try and do the rest of the math as mythic power attack and vital strike are a bit confusing. As some people feel it is RAW is broken and need revised or cleared up. see as Drakkiel comment above about the damage dice. a lot of people interpenetrated by the number of dice.
but to my understanding mythic is supposed to be a game of rocket tag who ever gets the first full attack or full attack equivalent will more then likely win. It you want to keep it balanced never give your character more then 2 mythic ranks use it as a flavor adder. If you feel mythic vital strike is over powering, you can give mythic monster the blocking ability, and they can block one attack around. kind of kills the ability.
Total defense is good to use for anyone without combat expertise, until about level 8 then it loses its effectiveness as you can combine combat expertise and fighting defensively, this gives you the same bonus as fighting total defense, without losing the ability to attack or use aoo. Yes you take a big minus the attack rolls but at least you still get them. Also as you level up more the ac bonus will get even higher. They also stack with mobility dodge, so you get a huge boost to ac and cmd for aoo. Normal I don’t care for stand still feat. But this is a good way to use it. This will prevent more meta gaming. As you can’t be so easily ignored.
How does a potion made permanent via eternal potion react with dispel magic or anti magic field? Are they dispelled for a turn then restart when out of field? Or do you treat them as they where made permanent via permanency spell? Or are they completely dispelled and the Alchemist would have to drink another potion to regain the effects?
As a GM I am kind of thinking RAI is permanent is actual supposed to be increases duration to no duration or infinite as you still have to use extend potion ability which only effect potions duration. But raw use permanent.
I ask because I remember reading some where that monsters with constant ability that get dispelled can reactive it as some kind of action the following round. Because it is also an at will ability. but potion are not at will ability they must be consumed it also requires a use of extend potion ability. So how do you reactivate something you can't will back or cast.
It just re-skinning the item Fretgod99 for group rp reasons not actual plot, if it was on the haft it the weapon it serves no actual function. If it is plot device they yes phlebotinum would be necessary. I don't think any gm would have a problem with a character going to local magic item shop or weapon shop and have smith or magic shop change out the haft for a few coin for something less offensive to the group, that does not change anything mechanically do anything to the weapon that servers no plot purpose. It would be equal to preforming a repair to the weapon or maintenance. Also if you wanted to change the half to different marital then yes phlebotinum could also be used. It does leave to a good idea for maybe a little side quest, but not something a GM has to do. Especial if he does not want the characters going off in a different direction then current story.
It all about what the GM wants to put into to it. The weapon is mechanically based on information we have is a Dwarven War Axe +3 Icy Burst and is perfectly useable by anyone the depiction is fluffy and actually has no mechanically effect. Mechanically and by the rules the only way for it to be evil is for it to be currently under magical effect such bestow alignment, it is unholy or is intelligent item or it a plot based artifact.
it sound like 100% reusable silverhair, the axe haft is more than likely made of wood so you can just re-haft it when you get back town, for rp reasons. no reason to destroy a perfectly good 50,000 gp magic item ooc. if the thing is not actual putting off an evil aura. destroying loot = weaker party in this game. This is why most pc hate sunder and rarely use it.
evil god is fluff txt and has not function unless it is artifact or cursed. Odd are you took it off some undead dwarf that worshiped and evil good or anti paladin, cleric ect. hence the fluff txt of the evil god it was flavor for the npc that used it. There are some items that get stronger as you level.(item in legacy of fire ap) They are usually intelligent items. The item itself is not evil nor are the picture. it just a picture of evil god. if it is a Dwarven War Axe +3 Icy Burst then that is all that it is.
Aboniks has stated is does it actual have an evil aura? if not that will help you eliminate the intelligent item bit and plot item device possiablity.
Aboniks, the weapon can go up to +10 so +3+icybusrt and unholy is very possible. It could actual be +5 Keen, icy burst, unholy and not be an artifact. The actual enhancements bonus can't exceed +5 for a normal magic item, there are artifacts and ways to break this limit the axe of dwarf lords or whatever it is called is +6, bane property ect.
Standstill does not work with reach also and because of that I have never seen it use expect in narrow hallways. The foe has to pass through the 5ft adjacent squares next to you. So it only works melee weapons.
Because of this it does not work with natural reach either. as the first reach square normally the one that triggers aoo thus they are not going to trigger in the squares adjacent to you. Also there are no bonus to add to this it is a raw CMB vs CMD check. It is a rather useless feat unless house ruled to work with any square you threaten.
Also Cleave feats are not going to be any good after level 6, and are not very good for battle field controller if that is what you are going for. Mobile fighter and whirlwind attack and effects extra added effect like trip or disarm do a better job.
Fighter brawler or Ranger focus on shield slam also does a better job. Deepens on party really, on how good you battle field controlling is going to be. If you have reach fighter like yourself that focus on damage and getting aoo from reach, a shield one and a monk all with decent dex and combat reflexes you all will perform a lot better as you feed each other’s aoo and cause lots and lots of status effects and damage. Was just recently in a party like this add we did not even need a healer. Just used wands. Brawler killed spell casting for bad guys because he was also had disruptive feats. Best part was none of us planned for the character to work so well together they just happen fit perfectly together. Real battle field control come from team work, get with other party member and see how you can feed each other ability’s and make each other shine.
you can go nova if that is what it does I don't have the mythic rules in front of me. But there was several ability’s in the plays test that it was capable of going all out on. but it leaves you with out use of it for when you may need it later.
Mythic rules are basically a game of rocket tag. he who has the first action usually wins.
The FAQ setup that way to prevent mortal combat trip lock meanuver. where you get the person at the edge of the screen and you trip them and keep doing it because they can't stand up or backup any more. You can just keep doing it over and over again until you win the fight. if you want to preform aoo when the person is actual prone there is another feat for that see vicuous stomp.
there was no quick draw in 2nd edtion, there where no feats in that edtion. But in 2nd edtion had quick draw built into it fuctions, you could draw your weapon, half movement 60ft. to 60 yards depeind if you out door or indoors (today 30ft.) and attack as many times as you had a attacks. there where no rules on sheathing weapons, because it is not something you would ever do in combat. Your dm maybe be thinking of droping a weapon to the ground and drawing another. This is still the same today if you have quick draw feat. Rounds where also a full 60second back then not 6. so the amount of time that went by made sense to how much stuff you where doing.
So it would fall in the catagory of inbetween which is why it is a move action today.
Any rule stating that quick draw also could do it as a free action or use in older edtion was more then likely a common house rule.
hitting faq, I am going to say no, since enforcer requires a melee weapon, same reason shadow dancer can't take dimensional dervish chain. It actual call out for a melee weapon.
Touch attack are consider armed attack but not weapons. Weapon Focus feat would call out touch attack is they where weapons but it does not, but it does call out Rays, which support the FAQ
Treated as armed does not make it a melee weapon. It make it exactly as it states you are treated as armed, you threaten squares and can make an aoo with that attack and you do not provoke and aoo when you attack.
unarmed strike is called out as weapon just as a ray is "An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon" Despite not being armed it is still a weapon.
Thymus Vulgaris wrote:
I had the same list expect cruel, cause was not aware of it. lol I had keen on mine because I was using a nodachi. I was a hell knight so I was more of just inspire fear build, but it was very fun with the party see what I posted to armormonk. we where going through combat so fast we did not even have a healer in the group. just a Sorcerer and a bomber alchemist to back us up. we keep them safe they soften stuff up for us that just lets us beat things faster. I would regularly get the last blow and Dreadful Carnage would kick in intimidating everything around and everything with in 10ft would become panicked from hell knight's fearsome ability.
That is pretty sweet. Greater for the Brawler from ACG. But let me in on a little secret, you don't need improved bull rush at all. as shield slams does not provoke an aoo. The way shield slam is written there is debate weather you could actual use the improved bull rush bonus with it.
we had two man team do this in our last group, DM let bull rush feats work with shield slam. the brawler(fighter archetype)Would hit guy with his shield bull rush them 5ft drawing aoo from me and the monk, My attack would cause them to go shaken, and do tons of damage. The monk would use his aoo to trip. that would trigger another aoo for him to do damage and another one from vicious stomp. then the brawler would use spiked-destroyer as swift action, if it was still alive he would then 5ft step to it and try to bull rush it again, but most of the time he just bull rushed other targets close by pushing them away allowing us to get the aoo. the monk would easily use all 8 of his aoos every round.
I am just stating the fact about the feat chain, and that it is very situational because it really is it just does not do much for a fighter. and is entirely dependent on other feats to make it work or party member.
look at it your self and as your self these question?
When does shattering defense trigger? after your 2nd attack in 1st round because your allow cornugon smash. or if you rolled 5 above wanted need demoralize the target 1st attack of 2nd round.
What does flat foot do for you as fighter? Drop ac of most creature smaller then huge about 2 or 3 points. There are some exception out there but most of them are medium are large in size. what size are the creature I seem to be fighting and what size am I likely to encounter later?
Is that two or 3 points of lower ac going to be critical on attack rolls for my class? not so much. for a 3/4 bab class or less yes those 2 or 3 points are major.
What does deadly stroke actual do? double damage this is equal to 2 successful attacks. and 1 point of con bleed (that does not stack if stack this chain would be over the top)
What does 1 point of con bleed do? Nothing it requires 2 rounds to do anything. then it does damage = to creatures hit dice every two rounds so varies, but it will never equal what you can do with one extra successful attack attack. that you get from haste or from ability that triggers an aoo.
What is my group made up of maybe they can help me get this deadly stroke off in round 1 or more often? I can't even give a remote answer for this one because it depends on group.
What do I lose, by preforming a standard attack over full attack? and you will see the answer going to be about a lot of damage or the ability to do damage to more then one target.
How many rounds do my groups combat normally last? If 8 to 9 rounds go for the feat chain it will be useful, if it is 4 to 6. creature are not going to be around long enough to really see the benefit of the feat.
the one class rouge it would be really good for can't get it and even then it is not all that good. Because you can just get in to flanking position and get what you need, or use magic device and use a scroll or wand, to go invisible and get what you need to get sneak attack.
If you did not use cha as dump stat Eldridge heritage is a much better pick, orc bloodline, you net str increase of 12 points(increased intimdate check), con increase of 4, size increase to large(increased intimdate check if smaller then you), 6 natural armor(non enhancement so works with amulet of natural armor), immunity to fear. you want to take your self out a bit tougher and get some spell resistance abberant blood line is good. you can even pick up fly easily with some of the other bloodlines like draconic.
even trip while situational does something for the whole party. Felling smash add dex and str to trip try, greater trip provokes aoo for you. and you and party members get another when they stand up. Standing up also is move action, thus they can either move when they do stand up or attack but it not a full attack.
i know people complain about combat expertise, but I found a great use for it, is when you get grappled, combine it with fighting defensive to get a huge boost to your cmd for when creature try to maintain the grapple. It can actual be easier to break a grapple that way then trying to actual break a grapple.
defiantly get cruel as aegrisomnia pointed out it works well with cougron smash. nothing like punting creatures at -4 to there rolls as free action. Ominous is also good for your weapon as it add the enchantment bonus of the weapon to enhance your intimidate check.
as you can see there is better stuff out there. I honestly think cleave is better, for less feat investment also. as you can use that standard action on the first round to soften up two or more creatures so you can out right kill them with your full attack the next round.
Slayer during the advanced class guide play test. It is also even for a fighter it a bad chain. while the class was doing good bit of damage with slayers study ability and he had arcane strike because of racial spell like ability. The feats where wasted or did not really make that much of a difference. I don't see how they are any better for a fighter as I pointed to flat footed is not going to matter in the long run. Fighters don't have any problems hitting stuff anyway making it even more useless. Dazzling display is just a feat tax when you are open up to more than CRB.
Deadly stroke is just a really bad joke using the just CRB it an opening round attack (only time it is useful) and a 3rd round attack, odd are the target you are attacking is going to be dead before you can even get it off in the 3rd round. it does not do any extra bonus damage until the 4th round or 2nd round if opening attack (at least with a bow you can use it surprise round). opening up to stuff other than CRB lets you get to it a little sooner as Elder Basilisk pointed by using aoo to trigger shattering defense sooner. But you have to have so many things go correctly and invest so many feats, reality there is better stuff out there most of them free actions or they combine when doing any type of attack, or they give you free attacks.
The longest combat I been in has been 6 rounds the longest I seen as dm was 34 rounds, the only reason it was that long is because the group raided wizard keep like a swat team they did not search a body until the place was cleared. They just kicked door room to room nonstop. It was setup a 6 encounters total feature wizard his 4 guards and familiar, adult green dragon, High level warrior lizard man, 4 demons, 6 more guards, and 4 wizard lower level wizards, This also included them going up 3 levels of stairs. It a average of about 5.7 rounds of combat per encounter. It should actual be less for all the lost rounds of opening extra doors with nothing in them, and going up stairs and 2 tactical retreats, was not expecting a dragon with flyby attack and wizard casting phantasmal killer and killing the monk when he rolled a 1’s on his saves. All these encounters where about 1 cr above the APL of 5 pcs. This chain of feats would have never even come into play as being useful maybe for one of those encounters even actual ran sperated. the party would have taken even more damage maybe had another death if the fighters would have wasted thier turns on these tactics.
as I stated above there are better options, for less feats investment. in the CRB alone. Just using that book alone
Vital strike out preforms the chain as opening move and can be done during any time you can't do a full attack. That feat chain is completely situational much like cleave and loses its effectiveness quickly after level 6+ once you have full attack that does +3 attack around. I say level 6+ because haste is most often cast by then arcane caster in group.
All the shield bash feats vastly better, higher ac, and free bull rushes and do some damage. Always useful even if you can't bull rush a target, no two weapon fighting penalty, +x weapon bonus and shield bonus.
Even spring attack is better stick in move never drawing and Aoo on hit and run tactics. are you do as much damage? No but you are able to do it just about all the time and you don’t take any damage either. Got spring attack not that far from get whirlwind also to attack everyone around you or even trip everyone around you.
weapon focus for a fighter is just not that useful, you get weapon training after all.
Deadly aim always useful, point blank shot and precise shot even if you’re not a bow specialist out preform the feat chain. you can always full attack(archers are over power threads)
And once you step out of the CRB the option are even better.
The chain would be good if they took away the +11 bab requirement from deadly stroke and change it to +9. the greater weapon focus requirement also should go and allowed it to work when dex was denied. It would then be a useful situation feat chain. It would allow other classes to use it, you get it before you official get 3 attacks and the situation of denied dex comes up more often than flat footed or stunned.
Edit: the reason it seem like my arguments are about non fighters is because Elder Basilisk was suggesting other class for it use. not realizing it is basically a fighter only feat. Opening up to more classes would make it more useful and a slighting better chain. I see it working out really well for Scout rogue types, since that whole archetype is based around 1 attack. But the scout himself has a flaw of not actual making targets flat footed.
Elder Basilisk wrote:
Like I said they look good but in functionality they are a waste for a melee character.
Magus can't take deadly stroke until after level 16, or if he mulit classes for 8 levels of fighter. because he can't get greater weapon focus until then. wither way you nerf your casting ability or by the time you can get it you may much more powerful things you can do.
Caviler can't even get deadly stroke without multi classing.
Cruel weapon cause sicken not shaken so that does not work out to well for getting the feat chain to trigger. It is a nice bonus for after you do cause shaken.
Shatter defenses does matter for a strait rogue as he needs to get as many sneak attacks as it can, because of all the rouge suck threads or save the rogue ones. it is a great feat for them, but for a normal melee type it just not that good, unless you are in a fight all humanoid campaign with lots of high dex creatures, this is going to drop ac 1 to 3 points on average, not that much. Most creatures with high ac's are all natural armor. This is why Alchemist and caster have such a easy time throughout the whole game. because they target touch ac, as you go up in level the touch ac gets lower and lower and lower. because pathfinder is built on the concept of bigger = harder so creatures get bigger and bigger, making there dex go down.
if a caster is casting fear and the creature fails it saving through that sucker is out of the fight you don't even have to bother with them. They are going to run away so fast and for so long, this is why casters get referred to as being over powered lots of save or suck/ fight over.
and for deadly stroke most combat last 4 to 5 rounds, by the time you can do this normally, you only collect enough con damage to only be effective once. provided it is not healed the next round after. It is effective as you stated as great opening move but that it is. you are looking at 8 levels of fighter dip, for any class that is not a fighter or level 16 magus, and more than likely has to be a dex build so you can use that great opening move, meaning less damage over time. especial if your dm does not allow agile weapon in the game. you have to use up 5 to 6 feats for it to be and effective opening movie, you are more than likely going to use 8 so you can make sure you can intimidate and cause shaken on your own without someone else help.
This is the problem with the chain for it to work well without others depending on others you have to invest even more feats like enforcer. which then require you to waste a turn doing non-leathly damage. This is why it is a trap, by the time it is useful, you could be doing something else that is more useful for the group as whole. the whole chain is very situational and take time and effort to pull off, or requires a large level dip for a character to even get best feat in the grouping.
You can do more with less, you can take quick draw and deadly aim and throw a hoard of daggers and do more damage or just uses deadly aim and full attack with a bow and out damage deadly stroke. you don't even have to have archer build for that to be more effective. Since we are talking melee vital strike will out preform this opening move 3 feats = 3 extra sets of dice damage this is going to be equal to what ever con damage you are doing over two rounds because it take two round of con bleed damage to actual do anything add a 4th feat and you get another +6 extra damage on top of it. so for one less feat can perform about the same amount of damage if not do more damage. that is referred to as a trap because full attack out preforms it every time, it really make the other one look bad.
Even with felling smash to get shatter defense to go off sooner that another heavy feat invest another 3 feat. it does not even work on huge creatures, and if you fail to trip you could end up tripping yourself. The risk far out weight the reward, even with a rouge it actual easier and less feat costly to ignore shatter defense line take skill focus in acrobatics and just tumble into flanking position to get your sneak attack damage. Greater weapon focus should have never been a requirement for deadly stroke. It really ruin the chain, the limited access to flat footed only. If it was changed to Denied dex it would be a good chain.
I did actual play this chain before that why I know how bad it is. I tried it with the slayer class during the play test, figured shatter defense would be great to let the slayer get lots of sneak attack even used Cornugon Smash to help get it sooner. Did not have enough feat to add felling smash to it. With the character, and I found myself lacking. I was getting out performed by the hunter which some consider the worst class of the playtest.
I had Fighter/Hellknight build very similar almost exactly the same that was out preforming the class with this chain vastly sneak attack was just not adding enough to be worth 3 feats investment. The hell knight was intimidating more successfully, instead of wasting feat on weapon focus, he had persuasive, instead of having uses dazzling display he had eldritch heritage boosting his str Which was increasing his intimidate and hit and damage. Instead of shatter defense skill focus use magic device. He was actual quite skilled outside of combat also because of this. Not as skilled as the slayer but still very useful. It was easier for the slayer to just get into flank and get sneak attack that way then it was to even bother with shattering defense. Instead of wasting 3 feats on trying to get something that takes 2 rounds to function, investing in trip would have been better or even teamwork feats to match the hunters to help him and my self shine e even more.
stick with the bastard sword you should hit more often, and do more damage on common hits. your one step closer to going through dr which will way more useful then a rare critical hit.
Always go to +5 weapon first your party will thank you later at levels 9+ when you are fighting golems and demons and devil who have dr 10+. The other party members struggle to do damage you will not. you can always take improved critical or add keen after the fact.
I find maneuvers more useful and fun then those three, they look nice on paper. they are either very situational to get them to work often and be useful or dependent on other character using their actions to get the benefit. While they are good for a rouge allowing him to get more sneak attacks(Rouge can't get the good one in the group with out multi classing.) or a 1 hit stealth attacker they are bad for a general melee fighter. That character is just going to end up completely out shined. You have to waste way to much time to get them to work. yes Dazzling display can be done sooner then Dreadful Carnage, but it a full round action. you don't get to attack you can't get closer to any target to make it possibly more effective. you basically waste your turn for a maybe a small debuff on a few enemies. It is free for Dreadful Carnage it just happens as you are doing what you are supposed to do as melee combatant it is a bonus. It can be used in a full attack, or a single attack, vital strike what ever feat combo you want to do that why the requirement is level 11 not to mention the prerequisite for it are all useful also to every melee fighter even a rouge, power attack and furious focus. extra damage and no minus to the first attack roll I will take that.
same goes for shatter defense you have to have to wait for someone else to either fear the target for you or have to waste a turn to do dazzling display or preform an intimidate check hope you your intimidate roll goes over 5 over what need to do so to cause shaken. So then shaken last long enough for you to move to your target hit him so in round 3 get the benefit of them being flat footed. if your lucky the target will be next to you and you can benefit from the flat footed on a full attack in the 2nd round. here the bad new as you get up in levels flat footed matter a lot less because large creatures which are common have no dex to start with, most of them are at minus dex mod so the flat footed ac is the same as the normal ac.
for deadly stroke not only do you have to do all the above you have to take a standard action to do it, double damage and one point of bleed damage at level 11 is not worth missing out 2+ rounds of full attacks. you will do vastly more damage and optional combat control with combat maneuvers helping out the entire party much more. It does not work to well in the surprise round. Your target is going to have to be right next to you in the surprise round for you to even use it. That does not happen too often. It would how ever work well for an archer in the surprise round or ranged character. but we are talking melee characters here. In the first round of combat with a dex build with improved initiative it could be semi useful. It would be a great feat for rouge it just a shame there no way for rouges to get greater weapon focus with out multi classing 8 levels of fighter. There are just to many other good and useful feats for a fighter to even bother with this chain. People call vital strike chain a trap this one much much worse then that one.
Edit: I forgot this bit you have wait 2 rounds for the bleed con to do any damage hp at all. while sometimes this damage could be a lot other times it is not going to be it all depends on hit dice. It no where near as cool or fun as wounding and greater wounding was in 3.5. a point of con every hit or 2 points with greater wounding. It was totally broken lol.
While that chain encourage support from you spell caster and monks to cause these status effects to help you get the benefit of these feats it take way to much from them and your self, you have to devote so much time on these feats, you risk burning lots of resources for everyone. in that time it take you to trigger them you could have trip a target or bull rushed them away getting aoo for your self and/or other party members keeping those creatures off you casters and archers keeping them free to do other things they want to do. Reducing enemy numbers so less party members are getting attacked ect. your healer have to do less healing because the party as a whole took less damage.
Cruel would have helped out my hell knight a good bit he had a fairly low con, the temp hp every so often would have been nice, the other -2 from sicken every round would have been great considering I was intimidating every attack.
I like Dazzling Display / Shattering Strike / Deadly Stroke.
Why? yucky that thing takes 3 rounds to do one of which you can't even attack in or move in. If you combine it with Cornugon Smash Dazzling display becomes a feat tax Then it is a little more useable but still takes 2 to 3 round to do depending on starting postion and Aoos.
So far my fav has been
Eldritch Heritage I think is fun as it give Martial a some more option in combat and out of combat, Orc bloodlines is just killers for martials classes. add this to list above, and you can't fail and intimidate check unless immune. numbers go into +50 something before you even roll the d20 dice
I like Meanuvers also if you have them right party for them because you not only get to do a little damage you get to help your party get more damage with them most of them need good dex and combat reflexs but it ton of fun giving them those free attacks.
A = yes see example number 2 on page 194. of the core rule book it explains how the orger with reach can strike Merisiel. But in your example since the monster is a step back it would have cover. +4 to ac
B= no because you can't strike the 5ft adjacent square next to you with a reach weapon.
Well, they said that they may change it in the final release (though don't take that as definitive). I remember SKR saying that they did it so that they would not have to worry about how the same class abilities would interact with the parent classes' abilities.
I think it will be removed as hybrid classes already exist Paladin, is a hybrid class so is Ranger, all the classes in the advanced players and ultimate magic are also hybrid classes. if they don't remove it will go against core game design and mechanic.
Yeah he said that but I think that was reference for play testing only, they did not want deal with those questions when they where trying to just see how each class was working individually. It would have been to much. They had more then enough question with 10 classes and only little over a month to test them.
you are thinking to literally Elbedor. Combat is abstract that is always moving. Grapple does not have to mean you are locked with hands wrapped around each other like a bjj or Greco roman wrestling match. That entire Halfling event could be described as a Halfling running up the giants pants leg or jumping off the giants body parts climbing him while the whole time the Giant is trying to stop and catch him. The pin does not actual have to be a Greco roman pin. It could just be that the Giant is so occupied with the halfing on his body or around him that he is pin in to dealing with him. Example in real world (Mouse in your pants heading towards your private area, you grab your pants leg to prevent it from going further who has who pined and grappled? The mouse got you) In the instance with your son, it could be your son running in between the Stegosaurs legs jumping up on his tail then running in along his back and when the Stegosaurs (tries to break the grapple)by swatting your son with his tail. Your son moves out the way by weaving in and out of its armor plating(fails to break grapple)You son continues to move about in between the plates (maintain grapple check) moving so quickly that tail spike get caught in between armor plate on his back (your son just pinned the Stegosaurs). Everyone thinking literally with rules. The game is a game of imagination. The rules for roll and stuff just represents a critical moment in that choice of action.
I did mentioned it twice =(, that was actual the main thing the character was doing. the enlarge thing was only a minor part but everyone noticed that frist. the character whole build plan is broken, it does not work on any level with his current character.
He went to power game with out reading the rules and end up with a completely broken nerfed character.
Lots of dice are fun to roll but in most instances it is not as good as a good old fasion +1 or +2
This is one of the worst archetypes there is for the rouge, it is completely center around a low bab,low ac and hp classes to put themselves in constant danger. This Archtype is a TRAP! We have one in group I am playing now and he is constantly getting killed because of this due to Aoo from reach on monsters. All for a few exta d6 of damage for one attack. It is just not worth the risk. Then you give up uncanny dodge which is good for low ac dex based class. You need everything you can get.
The entire thing is built around and doing one attack.
This will allow him to full attack sneak attack when doing normal movement. This will allow him to get power attack furious focus to use for spring attack in first round, 2nd round he can then tumble 10ft try to get into flank and get a vital strike sneak attack. 3rd round get full attack from flank and when he hits level 11 fighter he will be able full attack sneak attack in round 2, - 1 less attack at max bonus.
Do two handed like Black blood troll said, get rid of pit touched and do orc blood line or abyssal, if Abyssal you don't need Greater Eldritch Heritage, you will want it for orc bloodline so you can do giant form and get another 6 to str, 4 to con and some natural armor.
Ditch dazzling display, shatter defense and deadly stroke most useless feats in the game unless you play the new slayer class coming out. It take 3 rounds for to even use them. 1st round is dazzling display and a 5ft step because it a full round action. Next round move to target attack once, to get shatter defense to work, next round you can finally use Deadly Stroke. to do double damage and a point of con, combat should be over in the next round. you waste two round of full attacking to double damage once. It takes to long to use those feats to do anything. take cornugon smash, Furious Focus and Dreadful Carnage, you will get to debuff with every swing and do lots of damage, if you drop the target, everyone with in 30ft you get to try and debuff.
For your left over feats take persuasive for another +4 to intimate, +5 Ominous weapon for another +5 and maw of the wrym for another +4 and a mini breath weapon if you need it. you should be-able to intimidate everything in the game. For the other feats take deadly aim so you can empower your ranged attacks at fly creatures and for hitting those casters in the back. Then Alistus said use Falchion or Nodachi and pick improved critical up those critical feats chain staggering is a good one. Iron will and lighting reflex to boost your weak saves, ring of evasion go a long way with that.
Cleave is very situational and requires a lot of feats just to even mimic whirlwind attack.
Martial Mastery also allows improved critical feat to work with a weapon group so you take that feat, leaves your weapon options open and flexible.
Yeah I just got done playing one, just when he started to get good. 6 fighter 7 hell knight the camp ended.
Pandmeic faith was discipline travel domain for extra movement and teleport ability. He was intimidate specialist, using Nodachi as his weapon had Cornugon smash to make every attack an intimidate check, I also did Eldritch heritage orc blood line to help boost his str ac and make him immune to fear. Had combat relfexs to take advantage of his high dex, we had a brawler fighter, who specialist in bull rushing and shield bashing. and a martial artist monk in the group to with high dex. They were a great trio. Me and the monk would move up and attack a target, Monk would trip the target and get two Aoo’s the the shield guy would come in shield bash and bull rush the targets away from us giving us each another Aoo. No one ever got near the oracle or sorcerer. It was a lot of fun.
It is hardly a good build. If he was human he could enlarge him self, but since he outsider he cannot, there is a armor porperty that will allow him to do it, but it is fairly expenise.
Also hand of the apprentice(range wizard attack from universal school) does not work with vital strike, as both standard action to preform.
he is correct the the size will change when returning and he could dual wield, but he be at -6 to attack on primary hand -10 attack on off handed off handed does half str mod damage and if he does not have two weapon fighting and useing two bastards words if off hand is light weapon it is still -4 on primary and -8 on off handed. weak sauce. Dual weilding requires a lot of feats to be effective. he already waste 1 on the bastard sword, and another on vital strike which does not work in his combo.
be glad he is not 100% mobile fighter dual wielding Kuri. That is nasty. He could be full attack -1 attack at max bonus and moving his full movement. and had more feats to add even more damage.
your guy is not a good power gamer he thinking large dice = power, that is not the case, lots of static damage is more effective then random damage. +5 weapon are better then any +2 flaming, vicious, holy weapon.
there not much you are going to be able to do to get max dex with those classes. Mithril armor is the only way to go.
Fighter\hell knight can get the highest max dex allowed with sash of war champion I think +9 max dex is attainable with those two classes.+1 from armor, +2 from mithril, hell knight plate, +2 from fighter +1 from sash and +3 from hell knight armor training .
Edit: you could actual get max dex of 10 if you did Fighter 11\hell knight 9 at 10\10 split it is max dex 9
So my fighter PC tried to chain combo some combat maneuvers that I wasn't sure if it were legal or not.
the bull rush feats don't matter here, all he need was greater overrun and shield slam. AS far as using overrun and knock some one prone then taking and Aoo with a shield and shield slam them. and bull rush them away, yes it is legal.
Here is what might not be legal
I will note there is also debate if you can actual charge a target in the back and user over run in the middle of the charge. Charge rule if I remember argument correctly do not let you charge if your path is obstructed. They also require you to stop your movement after you attack. They do not let you attack and move again like fly by attack and spring attack.
The charge rules prevent overrun rules from working properly because you have to stop movement to take the charge attack and because the overrun is not a free action your turns ends in that square.
While when you preform a normal over run you do still keep moving and could end your turn in where ever your movement ends normally.
It up to you to figure out how to rule on those two things. Me I tend to rule that bull rush feats do work with shield slam, as at the later levels creatures CMD or size or so high you can't even bull rush, or you need as many bonus to have a chance at working.
In the the over running bit, I rule that they can charge at the person in the back but cannot attack it if the creature in the middle gets overrun as the over run was there attack action that was part of the charge.
here is the light ignore apl all together unless you are building and encounter. Don't think about it to much, best thing to do is figure out how much xp you want to give for and encounter, treat it as spending budget, then look at each monsters cr and xp rewards subtract from that budget. as you add monsters to the encounter.
APL and ECL and CR are all lefts overs from 3.5 that just cause confusion, in an attempt to build a balance encounter. Pathfinder fix it some what by making CR = a set xp total. This is what causing your confusion. 4 cr 1 monsters = the same total xp as a cr 3. this is why it is that way in the math. All you need is that set xp total.
don't worry about the resources bit either, most of the time pcs end up with more resources and wbl then they should. use wbl as a guide line.
I also recommend if you are running 5+ players switch them to fast progression, other wise there may be a bit of grinding or lots of wandering encounter in your adventures later. it also help off set that power balance that is confusing you with APL and Monster CR values.
see gray area, there about 4 or 5 threads like this all of them short so no one ever hits faq. they pop up about every 3 or 4 months. I suggest FAQ. This why I just run the middle ground of argument in my games. I see both side the argument, I don’t think the Raw or Rai fit the intent of the feat. I think the intent was to give a free bulrush attempt a lot like a lot of feats that give ability’s give free Aoo or skill check after an attack ect.