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KainPen's page

856 posts. Alias of Joshua Matherne.


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bookrat wrote:

Remember, the cohort can be a maximum of two levels below the PC. How is an 11th level character outdoing an entire 13th level party, even with buffs? Are their characters really that poorly built?

Also, do your intelligent recurring foes recognize this level of loyalty? What would the cohort do when the bad guys started targeting the PC - especially an underpowered PC since the player is giving his magics items away to the cohort? Or targeting the cohorts family back home? Heck, this can even lead into some good adventures!

read leader ship

"If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than your level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed to attain the next level." So it can be with in 1 level of you and other party members. Only when recruiting it does it have to be two levels lower then you.

to the op

The problem you are have is not leader ship problem since the PC is using it how it was intended to be used, the problem is a the fact the pc is a caster and focusing all his buffing on the cohort. He is not spreading the love. Spell duration are being abused or you are not giving enough encounters in the day. This is the problem with all casters, and most GM's not give enough encounters in a day to actual use up the casters spells. Especial at level 13th up or spreading them to far a part allowing for 4 or 5 rounds of buffing instead of 1 or 2.

You want to fix the problem try 13 or 15 encounters in the day all spread out through out the day even encounters during camping, Don't give the players time to buff. hit them back to back with 3 or 4 encounters in 30 min time spans then nothing for a hour then again. Combat and spell casting makes a lot of noise and is going to attack a lot of unwanted attention. This may cause your pcs to stealth a bit more meaning they are moving slower and allowing more buffs to wear out before next encounter.

You need to plan the encounters based on where pcs are, such as on the road in the woods, maybe a Troll or two goes to investigate the sounds of battle. Shortly after picking up loot and doing a little healing (you don't want to tpk them, you just want to challenge them and let they all shine) The pc are attacked by the just arriving trolls. It does not have to be hostel creature to make pcs burn spell or resources. maybe they stumble upon a wounded npc party and they ask for aid, and in return they give the pcs a magic item or some gold. This cause the good cleric in the party to burn some spells or channels. thus reducing the number of spell they have in the day. This will allow the other pcs chances to shine and give RP chances.

Another thing how long does it take to count 1,000gp.(Really see how long it take you to count 1,000 pennies) How long does it take to apprise all that treasure, ID those magic items. Start using that in your game. All the buff will start wearing off faster on the pcs, this will allow the other pcs to shine that are not getting buffed all the time it may also make the caster cast less buffs, allowing the cohort to out shine the pcs. look at how long it take off armor, now they want to remove that armor from 5 a dead body as treasure. It take them 5 times a long. The clock is one the biggest tool the GM has don't let player control it for free.


just upped my pledge a little more want those boat tile lol. I can never find a good ship map when I need one.


The sentence means a lot, it mean you can't use used ranged combat feats with it. thus you can get point blank shot and stuff like that with these feats.


LazarX wrote:
KainPen wrote:

DM call, I would say yes it works. As objects has and should have weak points also this is the whole point of Martial artist monks archetype find weakness ability that allows them to ignore DR and hardness of objects.

Damaging object rules state they are only immune to.
Immunities
Objects are immune to nonlethal damage and to critical hits. Precision damage is not listed

You can't do precision damage on something without vital organs.

Then if you are correct you can't sneak attack a golem as it has no vital organs. last time I checked you can. guess you can't sneak attack a skeleton as it has no vital organs. I believe you can. no were in sneak attack or mention of precision damage does it say vital organs it simply says a vital spot and must have a physical form. The monk ability proves that objects have a vital spot or weak point. The only things immune to precision damage in any listing are elemental because they have no standard physical form it can come in any shape or size(one fire element can look like a man while the next looks like horse almost amorphous in natural), incorporeal things because they have no physical form, and amorphous creatures because they are shapeless. object do have a physical form and a standard shape and they are called out as only being immune to critical hits and nonlethal damage.


CriticalQuit wrote:

While being immune to precision damage and being immune to critical hits are separate things, I can't find any entries that either confirm or deny that being denied your dexterity bonus to AC applies to your held items as well.

Personally, I'd say the sneak attack damage doesn't apply, because it's not an attack, it's a combat maneuver that just happens to have the effect of doing damage to an object.

you can lose your bonus dex to to CMD which is what the OP is targeting.

"A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD."

because the creature has been denied it dex bonus sneak attack applies to the sunder attempt. I don't think this was the devs really though of this coming up.

Objects have vital points it confirmed Via the Martial Artist monk and one of Brawler Archetypes but their is a check to find that weakness or vital point. It makes sense. Sneak attack is doing the same thing but target has to be deny dex to find that vital point.

Exploit Weakness (Ex)
At 4th level, as a swift action, a martial artist can observe a creature or object to find its weak point by making a Wisdom check and adding his monk level against a DC of 10 + the object’s hardness or the target’s CR. If the check succeeds, the martial artist gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls until the end of his turn, and any attacks he makes until the end of his turn ignore the creature or object’s DR or hardness. A martial artist may instead use this ability as a swift action to analyze the movements and expressions of one creature within 30 feet, granting a bonus on Sense Motive checks and Reflex saves and a dodge bonus to AC against that opponent equal to 1/2 his monk level until the start of his next turn.

This ability replaces ki pool."

RAW sneak attacks works because dex is denied and objects are not immune to that type of damage. but it up to DM to determine if object has a vital spot and the rogue can find it. Dm may require a perception check.

Face it rogue needs as many buffs as it can get. It is not game breaking thing. When a wizard can disintegrate an object just as easily or burn it up with a fire ball or flaming sphere. That can do it with no save if the objects are not magical. Hardness still applies as do hp. so not like rouge going to be plumbing through 3ft thick stone walls any faster the a fighter or barbarian. Who get to add all there normal bonus to the damage on the wall.

I honestly think leaving objects can't be critical rather silly just like how it 3.5 you could not critical a golem or undead because it was treated as a objects. They still are in some instances. see the line about fort saves effecting objects. I think they may have forgotten to take that line out.


DM call, I would say yes it works. As objects has and should have weak points also this is the whole point of Martial artist monks archetype find weakness ability that allows them to ignore DR and hardness of objects.

Damaging object rules state they are only immune to.
Immunities
Objects are immune to nonlethal damage and to critical hits. Precision damage is not listed

Now Precision Damage says

Precision Damage: Precision damage is a special type of damage, which might more appropriately be called a "category" of damage because any of the other damage types listed here might also be considered "precision" damage under the right circumstances. Precision damage is usually dealt by classes like the rogue when he is able to catch an opponent unable to fully protect itself. Precision damage assumes that the target has a somewhat normal anatomy or at least has a physical form which might have weak spots which could be detected or taken advantage of. Previous editions of the game (prior to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game) limited what sorts of creatures are vulnerable to precision damage more than the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game does. This was a deliberate change to make a key class feature of classes like the rogue more frequently usable. Attacks which affect areas (such as splash weapons) usually do not deal precision damage.

So it is up to DM to determine if object has a weak point. This is why you can sneak attack undead and constructions now. unlike before in 3.5 as they had no anatomy or weak point. This reduced only elemental, incorporeal creatures and ooze to out right immunity.


he might be thinking apply the logic of alchemical weapons with siege weapons on a smaller scale to get his stick idea. they work in a similar fashion as his stick idea but on a larger scale and require a crew, and catapult or trebuchets 10 lbs. of alchemist fire 200gp worth. Even then it only does 4d6 at the most in 5ft area then half damage for 5ft to 30ft if save is made. So there is no way his stick is going to be stronger then a siege weapon. to not spoil his fun to much, you could let him tie them together on a stick and throw them but he only gets splash damage for each weapon with standard save. after hit the square AC 5 with few penalties for not being proficient -4 for throwing a stick and for use and improvised weapon -4, then range remember it is a -2 to hit per increment of 10ft max of 5 increments, your looking at a -8 to -18 depending on distance on throwing said item. odds are by the time you add on all that he not going to hit and won't even get splash damage, but you should at least let him try.


yes and no, it goes through epic dr before the enhancement bonus +4 version of the weapon would be enough according to the rule changes on epic dr in the mythic rules book. +4 + a +2 mod = epic in mythic rules

none mythic rules requires the bonus to be any actual +6. Furyborn limit the increase to +5 so fury born actual has no effect on a +5 weapon. if you have a +5 bane or furious weapon I think is the one that increased when raging. there is no limit on the increase. so the weapon may actual get a +6 or higher bonus allowing it to go through epic dr.


No power, Just a big supporter like you. Don't work for them or anything, never even met the guys. Cause I don't go to cons, but I was pretty active on their message boards and a guy selected to beta test several of the upgrades a few times. They help me program the system to run 2 edition AD&D. I did have a few of my suggestion make into 3.4 upgrade. Such as dice fudging ability on dm conformation. you know where you click the d20 and can manual type in the number on the roll and it changes it before it shows up in the log. I made that suggest because you have something scripted for an RP encounter and pc gets pissed off and attack the npc. So how you let the player actual do his attack make him feel like he in control of his character and still miss the npc. Well actual let him pick attack and roll. Just edit the number rolls he see a lower number rolled and feel comfortable with his miss. Or maybe the dice are just rolling to good you as a dm and you almost TPK the party. You can manual adjust the dice roll.

I think I can see their vision and understand it. It was the product I was looking for and hoping for a long time. 3.5 came out and wizards was trying to do a VTT and then talk about it again for 4th edition and it just completely fail and become a dropped project. My friend even tried using never winter knight video game for a while, to run games but it took so long to build all the map and it played like a video game because that what it was. loss the feel of table top game. I also see that they actual listen to the support of gamer who user their product much like pazio does with their play test sessions. So I make suggestion that I think would make me want to spend money on the product or improvements I like to see as gamer.

I made the suggest for 3d dice rolling across the screen as fluffy content, after giving Fantasy grounds a try as it was the recommend VTT for all The White Wolf games I found on white wolfs message boards. Since those games were d10 oriented. But I found it a pain, but loved the dice toss effect and could help balance out that fine line between video game and DM tool that d20pro was walking. It also give the player some feel of they are still throwing dice as that was a big thing in my group, they want to roll their own dice. I let them do it for a long time but once they got into higher level and they were taking way too long. Few of complain all the time about getting a string of low rolls and blame it on the program but never praise it when it rolls a string of high rolls. Most of the ones that complain are the ones who tend to fudge normal dice rolls any way. So it prevents a lot of cheating. I have a feeling that will go away after they add that feature with touch panel work. Which it more important to get programed then the actual dice to me. Since d20pro does not do confirmation rolls on saves yet, it just does pass or save and you can manual change it to fail or pass. I have my players roll their own saves. So I will enjoy it when d20pro add it next year all those features.

I did send my suggestion and directed them to this board maybe they will have someone come on here and answer question for people and tell other people about the product better than I can.


I am going to make a few other suggest for them, they need to have other rewards to reach some of those stretch goal, I know they have partnered with 3rd party pathfinder publisher in the past. maybe they can do $150 reward for Rappan Athuk by Frog God Games you could maybe get all the download content as well as pdf copy of the adventure. It would require no work on both the 3rd party or D20pro guys as all that content already exist. That way you have easy ready to go adventure. It just you have to get them separately pdf and d20pro configuration of adventure encounters.


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Automation is d20pro big thing, thus making the game faster and setup for on the fly encounters a lot faster also. Unlike other VTTs which require you to build macros,macro nesting or scripts. It is already included in D20pro. They are how ever going to add options for that.
Because of this focus there fog of war lack dynamic lighting. Which seems to me one of the only good things I have seen on other VTTs, but even then those VTTs require extra programing on GM part of setting up that lighting or making macros for it. Most of them quick and easy fog of war system preform just like d20pros. D20pro will be fixed that feature in new version at some point.

This is the point of the kick starter is to get these things add these sooner by be able able to higher more developers or just devote more time on the software.

It keep track of all things a character can do. Spell per day, bonus spells all skills, all your attacks and special attacks, there saves dc and when you use them everything is done automatically, with conformation being sent to gm to confirm fail pass or even adjust damage delete. DR and regeneration is already implemented into the system . Even critical hit effects such as shocking burst that only go off on a critical. you do not have to write a macro for any of it, you just input the number amounts.

Also hero lab and other pc character generators are supported can be imported into the system characters and monster built in those system into d20pro. Thus all monsters in pathfinder system if you have access to those things are already created for you. You just important them to the system from those program are from another gm or player on the net.

I never used roll20 because I found d20pro long before it. Does is require you to be online to use it? I could not find anything but seem like it does as you need to log in to accounts to access your information. Also the lack of software installation also suggest it requires online only as everything is saved in cloud format. Does it support LAN games? D20pro does install software, but does provide lan support for and that is what I use it for. The internet option is there and my players use when they physical can't make a game because work sent them out of town. They can still join the lan system d20 pro work with both networks seamlessly.

roll20 does have innate video and audio conference. d20pro you need extra software for now. but it is on the list of add ons for next year, could happen sooner depending on how this kick starter goes.

roll20 has a limit of 5mb size map (the video chanting may be the cause of this limit as there is only so much bandwidth internet speeds), d20pro size is limited by ram and bandwidth and video card. LAN games you can have 20meg maps load a lot faster with Gigbit switch and nic cards or AC wireless standards which are all faster then internet speeds, but this limits will be similar for internet play internet bandwidth being the huge limiting factor.

Roll20 does also have 3d dice that can be rolled across the table, and a sound board system. This is fluff stuff and take up time of develop of actually rules interrogation and automation function which are much better choices in saving time for both gm and players. but guess what it is on the list to add next year for d20pro. could happen sooner based on results this kick starter.

d20pro also runs in 64bit java giving the software more access to system ram and more use of your processor.

is roll20 really free? no there is a monthly subscription cost for extra cloud storage space(biggest gimic and scam in the world and is going to cost people tons more money then an actual portable thumb drive. with the end of net neutrality. But that a completely different topic and debate.)access to features early and so on. d20pro no extra cost I been running the software for 6 years now I have not paid for a single upgrade and even got to beta test every version upgrade be able to give input on changes and suggestion before official release of updates as do most users do. This is the first time I have actual had to pay for and upgrade and it $10 to upgrade $5 if you catch it during this kick starter. But this upgrade cost make sense as it is a complete rebuild of the systems core to make it even more flexible then it already is.

I have checked out all the other VTT that you pay for and all of them are not much different then roll20 and roll20 is partly free. So they are lacking compared to d20pro.

I watched a few videos on roll20 and while it seem and looks simple at first glance it is really clunky for DM and time consume during game time. D20 pro seem smoother especially after you learn the hot keys on keyboard. chat windows in roll20 seems to you to have to put in special commands to do whisper and tell functions ect, while you can do that in d20pro you don't have to that. It is just simple right click of the player name in the chat log or character on game table to add there conversation to log.

It not that roll20 is bad it is very good consider it is mostly free and has some nice visual to let the game still feel like a table top game and not so much a video game. It a fine line D20pro people have been walking between d20pro playing like a video game and just being a tool for dm and they done it wonderful by keeping the system open and trying not to confine it to just one rule set despite it original programing. I would recommended roll20 for people on a budget and don't mind extra work and programing macros and scripts ect., but you are going to spend 30 bucks anyway. I going to say go with d20pro, you get what you pay for and get to be lazy and save your self some time. That ultimately what it boils down to you pay to be lazy.


The only real reason would be for Gen con content and early access if you are not a programer. $50 seem like the best idea for those that are not programers. Just upgrading would be a good idea and helps support it. It would really be nice to have all the stretch goals done when the program gets release instead of having to wait few years for all the content. I made the suggestion to them that they maybe add some Mesa Mundi hardware as rewards, like the water proof LCD touch panel over lays, like the table they used at Cons for display. As for non-programer only way to get more then $50 would be for stuff like that. Looks like they added some FAQ to the kick starter page explaining some things. Also responded to my suggestion and I am sure others made the same suggestion. That they are brain storming possibility of hardware rewards. I have a feeling if they hit 55K stretch goals or close to it they may add hardware rewards. As that stretch goal deal with touch screen, and several users.


Check out the new D20pro kick starter. I backed it and can't wait to see what these guys come up with next for improvements. The Virtual Table Top, or VTT has as it always been open to any game but was limited to only d20 rules so you had to work with in them. Looks like they are trying to open it up more to the community and allow self development so if you wanted edit the system for a white wolf game that uses only d10 tens you can develop it your self and put it on market place for others to get. D20 Pro is also now owned by Mesa Mundi Inc. I checked out their site these guys make water proof Touch screen and panels. looks like the aim is to get d20 pro working with touch screen technology, so your player could run the app on maybe tablets phones, as well as P.Cs and the touch screens Mesa makes. I seen a you tube video of the guys run D20pro on a Mesa touch screen panel Table made by Geek Chic at the conventions. It looks awesome, The kick starter video talks about some of the stuff they are trying to do and shows some demos of it, There is also a demo of new and improved fog of war system D20pro guys have been working on. Check it out support if you want.

I know from my person experiencing d20 pro and VTT as whole has speed up my combat section of games dramatically instead of 2 to 4 encounters in a 4 hour game session at mid levels, I get 4 to 7 done at high levels now. I seen people on these boards even talk about 1 encounter takes several game session. image doing 4 of those in one session. VTT improved the game speed a that much. Never having to hand draw maps again saves a ton of time. So check it out, you got nothing to lose.

Kickstarter


AndyTheGM

search these boards for grab and flyby attack and you will find many threads that majority seemed state a creature even with flyby attack and grab which is free action, cannot carry off a person in the same round. This will help prevent the player trying to abuse this. It end up taking two rounds to move someone even if willing. not all agree but most of those threads are fairly old and there never has been a clear ruling, it is something you will have to judge for yourself, but you may want to take note that an official ruling would more than likely support the people say that it cannot be done as in the mythic rules book, the evidence of this is an ability mythic wyverns have that allow them to do just this thing and it cost them a mythic point to do it. supporting it even further as it is requiring a mythic ability to perform the function in a single round. Which is published after most of those threads.


your GM is right and wrong at the same time, it is depends on the situation, as others stated it can be several jump checks in a single move action, the only important thing is total distance traveled and if you fail any of the checks and fell prone which does top movement for you anyway. Other Class have to worry if they run out of that 10ft of running room needed. If plat form, A to B is 60ft. Then the platform B to C is 60ft also, then two jump checks and it a double move. See Spider Jump and Cloud Jump feat chain. I think that is what they are called, they let you run/jump up walls or run across air without having to make the actual jump checks for total distance = half your slow fall in move action, you can use them twice in a row confirmed by a dev in a post somewhere around here. Before you only have to touch the solid service at the end of the total movement including the 2nd action move action. But since you don’t have those feats you have to touch solid ground in between each jump check.


Glad to see lot of the changes we recommend went through on this the class was fairly weak before and needed these things we suggest as a boots and they happened it is awesome.


I don't know of any Drow noble traits, nor could I find one. are you talking about the Drow noble feat chain? Or as Jeraa said just strait Drow noble. You should never let player play strait Drow Noble directly,they are to powerful, you can let a player start as a Drow and take feats to become a drow noble via the advanced race guide book.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-drow

you notice the difference in drow in that web page. A drow race is worth 14 RP points, and noble drow is worth 41 rp points so unless all your players are playing races that are worth close to 41 points the game will be very unbalanced and fall a part.

If they play a normal drow 14/rp points they can take a feat chain that will give them all the drow noble powers over a long period of time. this is recommend way of going about a pc wanting to be noble drow.

all the races in core rule book are in between 8 and 11 rp point. should be 12rp points because the dwarf is stronger then listed in the book to being slow and steady and not just slow like halfling or gnome.

so you can see a normal drow is already more powerful then standard race, but it really not a huge gap much less a noble drow. A noble drow is a 4 times stronger then normal race. and your other player will notice and feel left out.


Zardnaar wrote:
andreww wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Probably could have clarified. In BECMi the ratio remains constant ie the wizard is always behind the fighter. AD&D the wizard did level up faster for a few levels. By level 18the fighter was 2 levels ahead IIRC and the thief 4 levels ahead of the wizard.
The AD&D Magic User levelled faster than the fighter for the majority of the mid levels of the game. The Druid levelled faster than either of them, often hitting about 12th while they were still around 9th. Only the Thief was faster and that was offset by the Thief being a mechanically terrible class who would be lucky to make it past 3rd.

The AD&D Druid was not the CoDzilla monster of 3rd ed and the fast leveling thing hit a brick wall at level 12.

I have been playig retroclones and the ones I play have mostly fixed the issues around the AD&D xp tables. Wizards only level up faster from level 6-10 IIRC. The AD&D wizard was less broken still than the 3rd ed one due to the various drawbacks, difficulty of getting bonus hit point via con score (15 required), can't easily create magic items and the various things I listed earlier. They also lacked a lot of spells that entered the game later. Most AD&D spells were not broken either except maybe boom spells above level 11 or so in BECMI/1st ed (2nd ed capped them), it was more spell combos that broke wizards in AD&D ir fly+ improved invisibility (wizard could not do this in 1st ed btw).

A few spells that are really good in 3.5/PF could kill you in AD&D such as haste, casting limited wish or wish could also kill you.

By comparison healing was limited, magic items were limited, hit points above level 10 were limited. being raised from the dead cost you con points, creating a permanent magic item cost wizards con points etc.

Removing those limitations and letting wizards level up as fast as rogues and the saving throw changes were the big offenders IMHO or at least the main ones.

Go and play Pathfinder, cap DCs at 20, give all...

you forgot to very important buff to caster per 3.x

Concentration did not exist so if you got hit casting a spell you lost it.

The ability to move and cast spells. And the invention of the 5ft step. This could not be done before.

While on the other hand weapon attacking characters could move and full attack all the time, there was no need for pounce. but the full attack back then worked kind of like dual initiative in mythic rules. With you attack happening at start of round and all the extra at the end. This made monsters also more of a threat back then they are today. As they still got a chance to screw you up. They also had the ability of stand still feat for free nor could you over run past them. This allowed them to protect the caster that could not move. This made them pretty epic and enforced team work.

the creation of concentration was very much needed to balance the game. but with weapon attacking class took a huge debuff, they lost the ability to move and full attack, and the ability of innate standstill feat (which included whatever area you threaten meaning the greater your reach the more area you could protect) Stand still is a joke now only adjacent square. Things just walk around you. I think if they changed these things back you see a lot less people complaining about martials and it would be a bit more balance. They also be appreciated more by casters. Concentration was the only thing casters needed as a buff.

Edit: I forgot another huge buff, no longer being locked into action before you turn in initiative. this was a big gain for caster, was a buff for martial also but not as big. it was the cause for many lost spells, it is also the main reason Concentration was needed as a buff.


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Mrakvampire wrote:
KainPen wrote:

I think you missing the point that Harsk is supposed to be successful, the cap does just that increased his odds. The price is right for the item, someone compared it to improved iron will, it obviously better then improved iron will but not a lot better because it always on ability is reflected by it only working on mind effecting ability, but not all will saves. Average cost of wondrous item that grants you a feat like is what 8k to 10k, so 12k is fair price for what it does since it is better than improved iron will.

Also in your example Succubi are very smart creatures 18 int, the moment they realize Dominate is not working on this person they would move to other tactics, more than likely flying about Harsk each summoning a babau to aid other action to help in grappling Harsk,It a...

Actually in my example one item (only one!) shuts down main abilities of monster. Ok, yes, they can fly... yes, wizard enchanter also can attack with staff/dagger instead of casting spells. You miss my point entirely. What you propose is (as I see it right now, please do not be offended, no intent from my side) - "Oh, it's not a problem that there is a one item that completely shuts down melee attacks, that barbarian can probably... start throwing javelins with crappy attack"

And about steal maneuver. Yes, it can probably work, but in order to do that they have to identify this item first? How do they know that this cap is Cap of the Free Thinker? :) GM whispered? :)

there are item and ability that can shut down melee attacks by giving Dr, as stated in my example of the succubus, Harsk has to roll a critical to even hurt them. They actual have a better chance of dominating him with all of that then he does of doing any damage. Adamantine armor on a armor master fighter can all but shut down the succubus melee attacks. So stuff does exist to do just that effect. Necklace of adaptation in another example this grants our right immunity to harmful vapors and gasses. Cost 9 k cheaper then the hat which does not grant immunity but lets you roll twice. There are many more items that do similar things, most of them cheaper. Why is the hat more expense as you stated it treats a broader range of effects. But it is not granting immunity. So the effect are not completely shut down. But they are weakened greatly.

You don’t need to ID the item to know what to steal it a logical assumption and a creature with Genius level intellect is going to guess something on its creatures head is going to protect him from mental magic or be increasing his mental resistance some way. It could be a head band of wisdom. No gm whisper are need and it is not meta gaming. It is logical guess to form when a creatures does not get dominated like expected. Especially after to Succubus try the same trick and it failed. It role playing an intelligent creature as such. It would be the first target and may be a one-time try thing. The item may not even be magical that get stolen but is a logical assumption by a very intelligent creature take a chance. Then trying it mental effect again. I would not expect that creature to keep trying that maneuver after that 3rd fail. As the next logical assumption would be that creature is just that resistance to mental attacks. Now a pc could have very well combined with the other item say belt of dex and the hat power in a belt. To throw off an intelligent creature. I would never expect a kobold or hill giant to guess that the head slot could be protecting him from mental attacks. They are just not smart enough to do so. So you play those monsters as such based on their intelligence.


based on Harsk status in the book looking, he can't afford mind blank to be cast on him. you have to reduce his wealth by 12,800 to get this item and mind bank so this effects his stats, this means losing cloak of resistance +2 since he does not need it due to mind blank bring it to 8k, left to make up for item, the next logical choice would be amulet of natural armor +2. only his heavy cross bow is good enough to go through the Dr and he can only fire once a round. He going to provoke 2 aoo to use his only weapon that can hurt the creatures. Both the Babu and Succubuss have combat reflexs. He is no threat if you ask me to these creatures. once they summon the babu he is screwed. his melee weapon will not do enough damage to go through the DR most of the time. He needs critical hits to do any damage to the creature. because he does not have power attack. The 1 Aoo he gets around with his melee weapon useless.

They could try to grapple him all day and they will succeed. They only need a 13 or better with help from Babu they can summon He got a lot bigger issue to worry about then the will save effect from the hat.
Bluffing him in to taken profane gift could out right leave the at there mercy as he has no rank in sense motive they have a dam good shoot of doing especially since they can alter self to look like someone else. His cha is only 8 so when they remove the gift it does 2d6 CHA drain, this could leave him completely out.

Another more simply option is to just vampiric touch him to death it is at will and they can cast it defense easy enough.

You can say well we adjust his gear, to included cold iron weapon. here the ink Harsk has no rank in knowledge planes, so there is no way he going to know what there weakness are.

Well he could ask a the wizard he got mind blank from, true but he also has no rank in diplomacy, he may not be able to convince the wizard to tell him that information after all his CHA is only an 8.

on his own Harsk is dead in this encounter. the hat just help him vrs one the attacks he may encounter.


Mrakvampire wrote:
Pupsocket wrote:

Crazy hyperbole that refuses all arguments? Check.

No problem. Let's compare.

Default Harsk, ranger 12 lvl from NPC Codex decides to battle iconic monsters with mind-affecting abilities... Succubi and in order to make it as easy as possible hires 15th level spellcaster to cast on him Mind Blank. He can afford it after all.

Succubus is only CR 7 monster, so 1 vs. 2 fight (EL 9 for 1 PC of 12 lvl) is pretty ok

Without this super item he saves vs. Dominate Person (DC 23) on 5+ (he has total +18 Will save vs spell-like ability). So its 80% of success per demon, overall it should be only 64% per enemy round not to become their slave.
I would say it's pretty tough situation for Harsk!

Now introduce this "useless" item.
Suddenly Harsk saves rise up to 96% per Dominate! So it's something like 92% per enemy round not to become their slave.

So in 100 combats with 2 succubi without Cap Harsk will become slave 36 times after 1st round. With Cap its only 8 times. Survival increased 4.5 times.

Example above could be similarly applied to Hold Monster, Confusion and bunch of other save-or-suck abilities.

This is my argument for all that care.

I think you missing the point that Harsk is supposed to be successful, the cap does just that increased his odds. The price is right for the item, someone compared it to improved iron will, it obviously better then improved iron will but not a lot better because it always on ability is reflected by it only working on mind effecting ability, but not all will saves. Average cost of wondrous item that grants you a feat like is what 8k to 10k, so 12k is fair price for what it does since it is better than improved iron will.

Also in your example Succubi are very smart creatures 18 int, the moment they realize Dominate is not working on this person they would move to other tactics, more than likely flying about Harsk each summoning a babau to aid other action to help in grappling Harsk,It a nice way to quickly added +8 to 6 to your cmb or attack rolls, then grappling as team and draining levels from Harsk, thus weakening his will saves for every negative level they give him. All the game is doing is trading one weakness for another. for better will saves you force sacrfice other things.

It is still a rough encounter, only one of their abilities has been shut down. The encounter is still a strong one. Not to mention DR and because he spent money on this item instead of increase the + on his weapon it may not go through DR making the battle last longer or maybe he could not afford arrows to overcome the creatures DR when they fly out of his reach, now his CMD is not as high as it could have been due to lack of magic items. Or even his saves are lower due to him not buying a cloak of resistance +5 instead of a +3 Ect. there are tons of variables to consider. You have to also remember Monsters and BBEGs cause use this hat also, and because of that the game is balanced. If you don’t have your monsters using magical gear then you are short changing their CR.

There nothing stopping them from preforming steal maneuver and just taking the hat right off his head. See mad monkey spell it my favorite spell to use against wizards and other casters as you steal there spell component pouch, or head bands right off them. Look at how easy this item can be destroyed, it is made of cloth right. That means it has hardness of 1 hp 1, nothing is stopping it from being sundered in a single attack or being burned up by a fire ball spell if saving throw is failed on a 1. If it is rolled up as the random item effected. even if the item passes it’s own saving throw a minimum damage fire ball can destroy it. there goes 12k item in a second. Is the item useful, yes, is the item over powered no, is the item worth 12k yes.


the Item is fine camp for me also, one of my players picked up in random treasure I had rolled up, It saved the party from a TPK, because the level 19 two handed fighter is using it. when everyone else was failing will saves, only he and one rogue sorcerer were left and the sorcerer finally failed it will save, he was the only one left standing. the cleric and oracle did not make the game. That is right the weak and worthless fighter saved the day with his crappy will saves thanks to this magic item. He was able to avoid the psychic crush attack, and kill the remaining attackers, with his scythe and devastating blow ability. He just got the item the game before also. That why I don’t believe the weak fighter BS, I see fighters save the day lots of times especially at higher levels. Another thing the last thing is you want is a fighter like him under mind control, that why it was giving to him. If he ever got mind control you can count the whole party as TPK or retreat because he can one hit any of them and he is not going to miss.


Petty Alchemy wrote:
Full attack as a standard action.

it worked for 1st and 2nd edition that is with no minus on each attack roll, and creatures had a whole lot less ac and hp back then. now we have no full attack and -5 to each attack roll and creatures have better ac and more hp.


Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
KainPen wrote:
It a standard action to activate each element. that not an interpretation that is the rules. But some GM will allow you to activate them at start of day and leave them going all day, other dms will not allowing you to only have the active in dangerous area, such as dungeons ect. Because you don't always have your weapons drawn while walking in town and other places less dangerous. you would scare off all the pesents and surely get thrown in jail. They are mostly useless in the long run because of that and energy resistance in monsters build up quickly and it basically = out to almost no damage and a waste of 3 rounds to get started, best bet is to go straight to +5 weapon then dr becomes a non-issues, you are also more accurate with that allowing you to hit more often and power attack into the mix. Add keen speed or holy or even bane depending on what you been fighting in AP.
I wasn't looking for a discussion on how you interpret the situation, only how the OP's GM does. This is clearly a subject with a good amount of table variance to it, so no need to argue it.

it is not debatable see the development team made a ruling a while back see this thread and SKR post.

SKR Post in it he explains exactly how elemental weapons work, turning them on and off, and that activating each one is a standard action. It also explains that they do not turn off until you make them turn off. which is GM territory and common sense of making sure a player turns off weapon. It is a lot easier to assume your player turns them off in these situations, instead of asking them to every time. Such as you don't leave the weapon active while sleeping at night or you don't run around with the weapon active while in town. Meaning encounters in those areas are going to require you to spend a standard action to activate each one of the elemental abilities. Now if a GM wants to player to tell them every time they turn it off it can lead to some interesting things that will teach players to turn the weapon off. Such as maybe that flaming sword you put down in your tent you forgot to turn off catch the tent on fire. It just easier on GM and player to assume they turn them off.


It a standard action to activate each element. that not an interpretation that is the rules. But some GM will allow you to activate them at start of day and leave them going all day, other dms will not allowing you to only have the active in dangerous area, such as dungeons ect. Because you don't always have your weapons drawn while walking in town and other places less dangerous. you would scare off all the pesents and surely get thrown in jail. They are mostly useless in the long run because of that and energy resistance in monsters build up quickly and it basically = out to almost no damage and a waste of 3 rounds to get started, best bet is to go straight to +5 weapon then dr becomes a non-issues, you are also more accurate with that allowing you to hit more often and power attack into the mix. Add keen speed or holy or even bane depending on what you been fighting in AP.


IRONxTrueblood wrote:
I hadn't realized the multi-class restriction was gone. I wonder well a Rogue (Scout) / Slayer would do. Charge + sneak attack + studied target.

it would totally suck, to many levels in rogue you have to take to get the charge feature, you are better off strait slayer.

Having play test a slayer. I found it one of the better class in the book, it was very well thought out and balanced classes it did not need a lot of adjustment. Sounds like the fixed the main complaint. With study target just taking too long at lower levels. Even at higher levels as swift action, it eats up your swift action economy not allowing you to do other things with it but it is not a total waste of using because you want to use it and also help out side of combat. It is really nice and I prefer it to rangers favored enemy bonus due to it flexibility. Don’t let sneak attack fool you it is still situational at best. Unless something major has changed in the slayer it is not going to out damage the fighter consistently. Despite that line in the blog. Sneak attack has the potential to cause that to happen, but as stated and everyone knowing sneak attack is situational at best. As you try to make it less situational by added feats or other abilities you end up sacrificing feats and end up with less feats in the long run by paying in feat taxes or loss of levels. As in the scout charge feature example. It balances the class out nicely in some instants he is going to out damage the fighter but he not going to do it all the time. Weapon training and Weapon specialization or if you have a spell like ability and can take arcane strike and you quickly make up for offset damage and to hit difference between fighter and slayer. It is a great battle buddy for a fighter and you team up together taking stuff out quickly. This class is the new Rogue. The way the Rogue was meant to be. Also this class is a bit more MAD then it looks, as you need STR,DEX,CON,CHA,and INT as some of it talents are based of that.cha just to help support it skill set. It also the perfect class to do solo adventure for it is that well balanced.


GypsyMischief wrote:

I feel like a lot of these concepts can be produced with the classes we have currently. A few posts back I saw someone call for a 6 level arcane casting, 3/4 BAB, kinda sneaky guy, and his divine counterpart; you're asking for the Bard & Inquisitor.

I never played an artificer, so I'm not sure what they do, could someone educate me?

Just for the sake of class completion a 4 level arcane caster could be interesting. It could take form as a beefier hexblade, throwing around debuffs like a witch with magus style.

you are correct the only one that can't be done with the class we already have is the Priest and Warlocks as it 3.x fuction of them. but by definiation we already have Warlocks, all warlocks are male witches and we have a witch class.

One of two things should have happen to cleric back then spell levels reduced to 6 levels of casting to match Bard and dropped to light armor and light shield, and gained spontaneous cure casting. there was no need for 7 levels of casting or it should have been turned in to a Priest lost all armor use no spontaneous curing and 9 levels of casting. But that did not happen. Pathfinder tried to take care of monster CoDzilla, but I actual think they made things worse, by losing turn undead, which was mostly useless ability or over powered ability. Made undead encounter trial or no effective at all to channel, which is always useful either for healing or causing damage to undead As now the cleric does not have to drop as many spells for healing allowing him to buff a lot more. The Loss of heavy armor was not really that big of a deal because they were already over powered and now have more spell to buff themselves with since they don’t have to do as much healing. This make the cleric more fun and less of a heal bot, but also make them more powerful.

Cleric is still greater then wizard, better saves, more hp, spontaneous and prepared caster, full levels of spells, armor and some domain spells are wizard spells better weapon selection.

While the idea of priest is nice it is just not going to compare to cleric without become over powering. It would be model off the wizard and could be done easily as a wizard archetype that trade out wizard spell list for cleric list.

There is no need for Artificer any more, the whole point of the Artificer was a magic device crafter and specialist. The big selling point of the Artificer is it could use it Artificer points to build magic items without spending xp on them. Spending xp was removed with pathfinder, so that sell point is mute, the artificer could also for his level on wands and what not, this can already be done in the bard archetype magician. So if you want an artificer play that archetype and take the magic item crafting feats.


Old post of my old build when i was looking for advice on building a spear guy.

Human Mobile Fighter
Bonuse Feat race Combat reflexes
1st Dodge and Weapon Focus(Long Spear)
2nd Quick Draw
3rd Moblity
4th Weapon SP(Long Spear)
5th Spring Attack
6th Lunge
7th Martial Versatility(Speicalization Or Weapon Focus)
8th Greater Weapon Focus
9th Improve Critial (Long Spear)
10th Power Attack
11th Combat Expertise
12th Greater Weapon SP
13th Point Blank Shot
14th Whirlwind attack
15th Improved Trip
16th Precise Shot
17th Martial Mastery
18th Greater Trip
19th Deadly Aim
20th Two-handed Thrower

make sure to craft or buy these
Pilum, distance weapon. That is Also in spear category.
The tip of this heavy javelin is designed to break off and embed itself into a shield once it hits. Like ammunition, a thrown pilum that hits its target is destroyed. If you hit a shield bearing opponent with a pilum, he loses the AC bonuses from that shield until he takes a standard action to pry the remnants of the pilum from his shield.

This feat also which would be really good if you go human and use long spear as base reach weapon

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/martial-versatility-combat-human
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/martial-mastery-combat-human

It would allow you to use weapon focus and weaponSP and improved crit and so on. With all spear weapons. You can use pilum to get rid of shield ac or slow target by limit it to move and free actions only if they want shield ac.

This is my old build never got to play him. Still want to Looking at it now. I would change the feat placement would try to get trip sooner as it really weakens at later levels.

recommed efficent quivers to put all the extra spears and Pilum in for easy access with out much weight.

I say do mobile fighter because you can move and still full attack at 11 level and further up the chain move and do whirlwind attack. only thing missing is poison use. which oberyn martell used. This build also make you use full for when you have to fight flying enemies it very versatile and still strong.


I think that is your problem to many high detailed maps with hex grid already snapped in to the image. This is limiting you. try to make 1 map no hexes in the image just image of map, then resize that image to an aspect ratio you are going to have to play with Based on size and visual quality you want. As others siad 1 meg is ideal for internet play, but if you want better quality 5 meg should be good. if it LAN based game you should notice no lag if 5 meg images. Then use the VTT to input the hexs grid manually on top the plain image. Most have a way of doing this some don't to the scale you want the grids to be. Some like D20pro limit you to just squares. but squares could have the same effect. The only reason hex are used is to make more accurate measure of distance, so you don’t have to use 5,10,5 rule for diagonals. Hexograher program could be the whole problem I don’t know anything about it. But I had similar issues with Dundjinni building maps, because it auto scales on x size, with its own set rule for grids. So what I do now since I can’t draw for the life of me much less use gimp or Paint shop pro. (if you can do this best way to make high quality maps that fit into VTT well without any issues.) I use Dundjinni easy features to build the structures of map to give it the look I want for world or massive dungeon. I tend to avoid the auto stamp object in my maps for dundjinni. As they are scaled to set size, you may be seeing the same thing with Hexographer. Then go import the image then add the add the grid manually inside the VTT to the number of squares I want.

Edit*
I just looked up Hexographer on my phone, I would not even use it. It is your problem just like Dundjinni, was for me. It is set to an x scale at X resolution and is not made with VTT in mind or making just and image from the looks of hexographer you can’t take the grid out of the image. You are going to have to use 3rd party image software to resize the image to lower DPI. These programs where made to print out on lots of sheets of paper and make a big poster board of them all taped together, or print out on large plotter printers. The print scale is that all the hex are set number of inches on piece of paper. Your best solution is going to be to make new image using the poster board style. Take each of those maps use resize them to they are about 300kb to 1 meg each, you can do this in paint, gimp, ect. with resizing option. Just do 50% until you get close to that number. Then after that then make a new image file inside said paint program, then cut and paste each 300kb to 1 meg each image to the new back drop placing them together in order, just like you would have done back in the day with poster board, glue and or tape. You are going to lose quality and it may actual come out to small you are going to have to play with it and may have to make several maps but it could very well reduce you from 12 maps to 3 or 4. Then import map in to VTT and adjust VTT grid to fit on top of grid of your map. It may not fit perfect but it is your best solution with what you are working with.


resize the resolution of the map to 50% the again by 50% your resolution is way to high that is why you are having size problems. you can do this in paint. but I suggest doing it else where as the image is going to eat a ton of ram. your image file if 20meg will eat up 1.5 to 2 gigs of ram. your computer has to decompress it to view it. This is the issue you are having. The Grid lines are going to stay in the same place and the same distance a part. but the image you are using will change. your more then likely have a DPI range of 150 to 200. this make file size huge map, but you really don't need that level of detail, 100 to 50 dpi is often more the enough. I have even gotten really good maps at 25dpi for those that are really huge physically like your world map. Change to JPG as you are not use transparency instead of PNG. This will save you more space.


Your screw the bag is instantly destroyed they only have if made of cloth so 2 hp no hardness, that is if it is at least inch thick. It is more than likely less than that. The bonus damage alone from swallow whole destroys the bag. It is no longer attended by you so it get none of bonus you grant it by allowing it to avoid damage. Once you’re in the bag you can't get out without help, person on the outside has to open the bag to retrieve you. So you can't even stick your hand out to shoot your gun. You can attack the bag from inside to get out though with piercing or slashing weapon it does not take much.


monks speed bonus and haste do not work together. they are both enhancement bonus to speed. You can just take fleet as a feet as much as you want to increase your speed that way and it stacks with haste. staying strait fighter is better or level dipping in barbarian. Then you can pick up big will save bonus, rage and fast movement that works in mithril medium armor. and now you are not stat MAD. Take fleet two time you will have the feats due to fighter bonus. boots of striding and springing as magic item and you are at 60 movement all the time, then with haste now you have movement of 80. Honestly once you have 50ft.any more speed really does not really matter. Battle maps are just not that big. you really don't want to be that fast all any way. it does it put you further away from the healer and leaves you in trouble or put the healer in trouble for when he has to come try to heal you. Had a Monk and two handed fighter built on spring attack and vital strike in my group and they get into trouble all the time because they were to far ahead of the rest of the party.


hunter was not a waste of word count. Me and my friend played a set of twin hunters with very similar build only slight difference here and there. They were the strongest of the play test classes. Because there is a hidden feature in the hunter no one notices. The more hunters in a group there are the more powerful they are. 3 or more hunters in a group are the most broken thing in pathfinder I have ever seen. I hope it gets fixed in the final draft. the problem is the free teamwork feats giving to AC. it is an exponential increase in power. team work feat while weak on their own because not everyone wants to take them. if a group of 4 all took team work feats they become good, but the whole group has to do that requires people to break from their build are character concepts. not going to happen, but with hunter 2 in the group now and the ability to swap teamwork feats on the fly. you don't have that problem because you have 4 creatures using teamwork feats for free with out impeding other players. all of a sudden teamwork feats are actual useful very useful.

this is the combo we had was mounted combat builds, with large cats

Seize the Moment with high crit range weapon, this feeds a whole bunch of AOO often.

Paired Opportunists - +4 to all the Aoo we get caused by Seize the Moment

Shake It Off - constant bonus to all saves as you are always adjacent to AC

Cavalry Formation - 2 hunters and ac all in the same large square = always adjacent so other hunter making shake it off bonus constant +3

Coordinated Charge - pounce at the same time.

now lets add a 3rd and 4th hunter similar build all characters have +4 to all saves +4 to attack roll on Aoo can pounce at the same, high odd some one crits triggering off 6 to 8 Aoo. which also has a high chance of critical possible triggering it again. Not to mention buffs from spell and anything else, added shield wall and shield caster to give everyone nice bonus to AC and and concentration checks.

it can get really nasty really quick.


yeah this GM is adding custom stuff there should only be demons in the entire campaign expect that one imp at the very beginning is the only devil. in the whole campaign if I remember correctly. in the final encounter in front of temple should have been a few vrocks, and Glabrezu. Your gm may have shorted you xp by changing encounter or made encounter to easy or did not make them hard enough for what ever reason, Also you group should have realized Riddle port was the place to by eq with 40k spending limit. I had just looked it up the elf capital had a 20k limit. why they would have less the the town the game starts in who knows. You guys could have teleported back to at any time. Since you could not go back to drow city with the 100+k limit it had. there nothing wrong with changing the AP, so long as you stays balanced. the Devil and Demon used did not exist when this adventure was published so that how you know he added stuff in. All the monster should have been limit to tome of horrors and 1st Bestiary stuff(which that book was not even published yet all the monsters are based off 3.5).

Xacarba
Axe Beak
Chard
and those lion looking things in the 2nd chapter were all added in the adventures they show up bestiary section of each chapter in the adventure and later added to Bestiary 2.

not sure were the balance collapsed weather it was lack of gear or the changes DM made maybe he optimized some of the monsters were normally they are not. it just did not translate will from 3.5 to pathfinder rule set for you guys but it happened. I don't recommend the 3.5 adventures to any gm because this happens. your multi classing could have did it also. What done is done though. It took me about 3 months to rewrite the AP and balance it out for my group of 6 on fast progression. they end up the game at level 16 and I quadrupled and the number of guards/fighters, maybe double the number of caster. while the fight was hard two of them dropped to negative numbers they. they did not come close to TPK or need my invention to win the battle.

I would just move on the the next game and make sure you bring extra healing and multi class a little less.

you guys need to look into moving the game in to VTT it will speed up the games drastically. my group did that whole temple the fort before it and the last glyph all in 1 6 hour night. I never been in a game where a single encounter took 6 to 7 games to do. I been in them where they taken 1 night per encounter. I can't stand that. Since moving to VTT my group get done 3 to 4 of the encounters done in 1 night that used to be 1 encounter a night. they do speed up the game that much.


can you do it in 6 seconds? cause that how long a round is.


I ran second darkness about a year ago and the encounter you describe is not in it. Sound like your GM expanded on the adventure. the adventure end at with pc around level 15 or 16. If you guys are higher then that, then your playing expanded stuff.

it sounds like the dm combine 3 encounters into the final battle.

one encounter that sound real similar to you describe in the 4th chapter with shield golem, and the younger brother of noble family of drow, the sister high level wizard her self in the extensional space. but they are from an rival family, you are targeting. They would not directly help them they want to seem that family destroyed as much as you. those encounter can easily avoided by leaving out the tower landing area outside for flying creatures and not attacking the sister and leaving when she tell you to.

the the sorcerer sounds like the cleric lover but he should have been encounter else were while you search and destroy the glyphs and leave you a clue that upset the cleric in the final battle causing her to go mad and target you and her own people in her fire storm spell and other attack spells.

if you did not destroy the glyphs you are screwed and the battle is impossible to win. if you did it should be a hard battle but not impossible. but there were never any golem in the final battle, just the clerics few solider and a few vrock's

the adventure was also made for 3.5 so your gm had to do some edit and should have tone that battle down a little. because cleric did not have channel in 3.5 and solders did not have as many feats. you should have had chance to buy good gear in the elven capital before heading under ground for a 2nd time. I think 40k was limit listed for single item.


pathfinder healing is better then any other system. There is actual more healing now then there ever was before in any of the early editions. With channel and quick channel, healing spell doing +x level to the spells, spontaneous casting of the spells so now they are spam able and life oracle ability to break limits on the spells. holding a charge option and meta magic feats, Not mention how stupidly easy it is to use a wand with use magic device to use healing wands. I play 2 games with out a healer class in the group in the game and still manged to blow the AP out the water with ease. It is over power as it is; and make the game way to easy. If anything it needs a Nerf not a buff.

If you want less casting repeats you have to remove channel and the ability to spontaneous cast to balance it out for the increased amount it does. other wise the game is going to be way to easy.


There are a few monk feats that could simulate the charging jump thing the player trying to do. but not actual do as Diego Rossi pointed out. The moment he had to make the jump checks he could not charge. I had a player that took them, they are called spider step and cloud step I think. one lets you run up walls but you have to end your total movement on a level solid source. the other through the air while ending movement on solid surfaces. my player asked me if he could use it to wall jump like in all the video game. I told him there is no need as it lets you run up the wall or strait up in to the air, I told him if he wants think of the action being preformed that way it is fine. The feats basically negate the need of jump checks and allow you to charge up walls or strait through the air. Crouching trigger hidden dragon kind of stuff


a lot of people miss this but the material component of the spell is limited to single onyx that is worth 25pg per hit dice. which according to ultimate equipment guide can be worth no more than 65gp, thus the spell is limited to 2 hit dice creatures, but this same component is used for create undead and created greater, when make those spell completely useless as they don’t even function using the ultimate equipment guide rules on the gem. So Dm's often have to house rule that you can use more than one onyx with the spell or actual make onyx worth more than that.

Also you choices of undead are limited skeletons and zombie, most creature actual and up worse and almost useless as these creatures, as they lose feats, features, defensive and offensive abilities. hp take a huge hit to lower numbers, bab often takes a hit and natural armor gets reduces to almost nothing and they have no skills. Also most are destroyed at 0 hp so all that money you spent is gone in an instant. This could lead to loss of flight or the undead is constantly staggered, meaning very little action.

So it is really not that strong because a single fireball spell or some other area effect spell could kill them all quickly leading you heavy loss of funds.

Here where it gets strong and useful especially in a powerful in a pre-written AP, the variety skeleton the bloody one. Is really nasty in APs because of they have unending regeneration. Wait a few mins and the start to heal right back up. There is a weakness them, but very few creatures in APs have ability to overcome as evil or negative energy designed creatures for good pcs to overcome. They are not setup to defeat evil undead. Another weakness and they count as double hit dice you allowed to create but not control once they are created they use normal hit dice for control. This is where desecrate spell come in handy as it allowed to create double the normal hit dice creatures you normally could and give bonus hp to each undead created.

So it can be very strong if you as dm are not ready for it or willing to adjust a prewritten AP to the party and there tactics.


Joex that point of point of Tomos and pupsocket discussion is to answer question 1. it can't be answerd with out there debate being resloved.

1) strict RAW per pupsocket argument is no you can't apply the bonus because the attack roll as whole is substituting in place of the CMB check. the whole roll for the attack roll whatever the attack roll was and check that total vs cmd. This includes all weapon based bonus such spell buff that apply to normal attack roll and strangely inverted size bonus.

If the correct answers would be to apply bull rush feats to the roll and only substituted what is physically rolled on the actual dice. mean you don’t have to make a 2nd roll. All bonus apply as normal for the CMB check modifiers ,Tomos argument, and follows standard CMB check, there is no strange quirkyness that happens with this.

2)Per raw the character can't not forgo substitution because the free bull rush must be made substitute with attack roll. but he can forgo the bullrush check by not useing the shield slam feat at all.

Another bit of information is that all CMB checks are already attack rolls.

I would start a new thread asking for FAQ clarification with your question and add link to all the threads that have had this debate come up as they all have previous FAQ clicked on them as well. your question 1 and 2 are very clear on what they are asking. I would like to see this resolved so it stops popping up the boards. it shows up about every 2 or 3 months since the captain America movies have come out and people start making shield builds.


hit FAQ this debate has come up several times, and both side the argument make sense.

I would say using the attack roll is much more powerful then normal bullrush check with out rolling the dice, as it then allows you to added weapon, focus, enhancements bonus, weapon training and any other bonus that apply to normal weapon attack. Your total end up much higher then uses feats.

On the other hand it makes a strange effect it causes as size bonus to the check are reversed, as a small creatures have a better chance of bull rushing with this feat then larger creatures.

I honestly think the intent of the feat is allows you to slam and preform a bull rush check for free, without re-rolling the d20 added all bull rush feats and weapon bonuses as you normally don’t get to add those to a bull rush.

Is it overpower hardly, all it does it give you a chance for any AOO if target is knocked prone or preform a semi stagger effect, as creatures that are pushed away have to use their move action to come back and attack you again.

I think the combat maneuver itself is the balancing factor. It does not work on creatures 2 sizes bigger than yourself. This knocks the number of creatures this is useable on down a lot with some sort of magical assistance.


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Gitoffamylawn!!! wrote:

Phhfffft! All this talk of yer fancy shmancy "recharging staff". Back in my day we used a staff and at the end of the day, you know what we had? We had a stick!

<pulls out a dead 2E staff and starts whacking people whining about it being difficult to recharge, let alone even being able to recharge, a staff about the thread>

you old coot you're telling these youngster wrong. Most Staff were rechargeable back in our day only a few were not. But I tell you want it was harder than then it is now. you young yipper snappers have no clue hard things were back then. Recharging any item required a saving throw at -1 penalty for the item and spell listed in the staff and enchant item or prayer cast on it. If it fail the save, guess what it crumbled to dust and was destroyed. You could not even use it as a stick. So we either used it as stick or tried to recharge it. Most of the time it was better to use that stick. Those were the days. when we beat monsters with those sticks, while walking 5 miles up hill, on glass in the snow bearfoot. Time were hard, did not have all these fancy feats you kids have now days and extra abilities and tons of attacks and AOO. we got 5 every 2 rounds at the most. You kiddies don’t know hard..


is it for PFS? If for PFS go with whatever you want. I never cared for re roll ability’s and feats, I find them rather weak, if they or not constant. So I would lean more toward two-handed fighter. If home brew go two-handed fighter and use a scythe, at level 19-20 you can one hit just about everything in the game and you are not going to miss with a -5 penalty on highest bab furious focus takes care of power attack penalty. I got one in my game he was weapon master before, he retrained because two-handed just does more damage, every hit is a critical. Weapon master is good if you think you are going to miss a lot which my player though was going to happen.

You can use Falchion with two-handed fighter and you going to out damage the weapon master easily because the critical range is the same.

edit* did not see the remake part of old adventure. I would go two weapon fighter either build is good. just swap the archtype.


CraziFuzzy wrote:


You've convinced me, you're completely beyond logic on this matter. If you agree that the magic is getting in there by the great skill of the person able to improve the items, then how in the WORLD do you equate that to high skill in on craft being able to improve a completely unrelated item? The fantastical logical leaps you make are insane, and should disqualify you from any sort of discussion in a rules forum.

"I'm really good at making swords. I can make them perfectly balanced, I can align the metal just right so that it accepts magical energies from the ether around me... therefore I can do the same to the fibers in a cloak..." This makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever.

I could almost understand some of the others here who were saying they could use any skill to enhance an item when they were basing it on poor grammar comprehension, thereby making it just the result of an unfortunate RAW peculiarity. But to actually try to justify it like you are is just asinine. Your GM must love having you at the table.

Considering I am the GM at the table I would think he is loved at the table. I know the Players love the GM as they constantly buy APs for me to run. They also have fun and come up with creative things.

why does it make no sense that a weapon smith could not make a magical cloak, as part of the process of magic a magic sword it to polish it correct? Maybe the way the weapon smith polish all the magic swords he makes or comes into his shop for repairs. align the energy on that that peace of cloth in return the cloth gain that magical energy also.

The ability to align the energy in the cloth is represented by having craft wondrous item feat. What skill was used is based off master craftsmen meaning the item was used some where in that crafting process. or as i stated before crafting magic item does not necessarily mean you physical making something, that is what mundane crafting does.

It could also be represent in a divine way by pray to your god constant every time you preform your craft or profession and while you work, It is actual the divine being that make the magical energy enter said item.

is it crazy to think a divine being may not take notice of your work and reward you for it. half price magic item is a hell of a reward.

as I said before you are playing again with GODS, MAGIC, Fire breathing flying reptilians, demons, devil ,and even Godzilla now is it really far fetch to think that some guy polish a bunch of swords every day won't make a cloth magical if he knows how to align magical energy. logic goes out the window in the game.


seebs wrote:

Okay, so, couple of questions:

1. Do you think that spellcasters should also be allowed to use any craft, not just the listed or applicable crafts, when making magic items?
2. If you think spellcasters should also be allowed to do that, why do you think the rules even mention the crafts that "can" be used, if absolutely any craft can be used for absolutely any item?
3. If you don't think spellcasters should also be allowed to do that, why would you let anyone else do it without explicit wording saying the rules for item crafting were being changed?

1. They don't need to they have spell craft for that. Spell craft preforms that exact same function. a general craft any magic item you want skill. odd are a spell caster is going to have more ranks in spell craft then a craft skill. As it is used for more things then just crafting, id magic items, id spell so you can counter spell ect. ect.

2. because it another option that a spell caster can use by actual using craft skill in case for some reason it has bonus that is higher. Casters have a options master craftsmen do not.

3. If I have a caster that wants to make a magical grip for a sword, I see no reason why jeweler or wood worker skill could not be used make the grip. The grip could be what makes the whole weapon it magic, that the whole you can use appropriate skill for the check comes in. what deem appropriate dm based on the fluff the player gives him.

There a is a sword that you can get in way of the wicked AP that actual gain power by adding a grip and pommel to it. I am not sure if there are more example of this in other AP. As I have not read or GM them all, but I know it is in that one.


Yes as albatoone said and gave you the reason. It is an archetype not a new bloodline; this is why you can't take mutated bloodlines with eldritch heritage feats, because they are not actual bloodlines.


CraziFuzzy wrote:


I believe the concept behind the Master Craftsman feat, though, is that even though you don't have a grasp on controlling the arcane magicks at work to create a magic weapon, you are so competent at the craft of forging and improving a weapon, that you can make it recieve magic through the grace of your workmanship. That, really, is the only explanation that would allow a non spellcaster to enchant anything, and with that explanation in mind, it explains pretty much every part of the feat.
It explains why it is limited to enchanted mundane objects, and not overt spell trigger or spell completion items.
It explains the requirement to use your craft check to complete the work, as you are not manipulating the magic directly via your mastership of the arcane forces (spellcraft), but instead are working your craft in such a way that the item receives the arcane energies...

Thank you; you just justified the use of the skill working for all magic items in your own statement. It is the skill of improving the item that taps in to magical energy’s making the item magical. Does not have the be limited to the weapon craft only for swords, as I stated earlier in my examples or others have stated for using basket weaver making a magical dagger or a cheese merchant that slices cheese with a sword every day. The crafting of the basket and placing dagger in to said basket praying to the gods. Enchanted the bladed because of his skill it impresses the god to enchant it as gift. Or maybe the swords pommel or hilt is made entirely of basket weave. Instead of tang being wraped in leather or cloth or a metal with jewel placed in it. look I just justfied why a jeweler should be able to make a magical sword. It is up to you to come up with the fluff to justify this crazy illogical roll. logic should not be applied to a world where any person can be come 7ft tall, can shoot fireballs from eyes and bolts of lighting out his rear end.


Artanthos wrote:
Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
Master Craftsman specifically calls out that you must choose a specific profession or craft, substituting your ranks in that craft for your caster level and using its check in place of spellcraft. It does not require that you actually have a craft chosen that would normally be associated with the item you want to build.

It goes back to applying common sense to the rules.

Why would you think you could apply Craft: basketweaving to forging a sword? Are you also going to argue the Dead condition does not stop a character from acting normally? There are a lot of things not explicitly included in the rules, and any attempt to include everything would result in a book too large to carry.

becasue your not forging you are enchanting at that point. the Item has to already beforged and master work qaulity before you can use craft magic item feats. At least for weapons and armor, all other items can be normal items that are already crafted through mudane crafting. Forging happens during the mundane proccess, not the magic item proccess.


Ed Reppert wrote:
Blake Duffey wrote:
Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
If an interpretation of a rule or feat makes it seem useless to exactly the characters it is aimed at, then I find it unlikely to be the correct interpretation.

I don't find my interpretation to be 'useless' - it allows a martial character to craft a limited set of magical items. Without this feat, that is restricted to casters only.

I find it very flavorful that my samurai could craft his own magical weapons.

Flavorful, yeah, but does it make sense that someone who has no magic, can do no magic, can suddenly make magic items? To me it does not.

why not, any one can multi class at any time and become a caster, that give you impression that latent magic ability is hidden in every creature in existence in the pathfinder world. Some times it just comes out differently, maybe it the only for this person to access those hidden magical abilities. There are tons of magic background traits to support this also.


so you have something to roll other then spell craft check. It also something you already have 5 ranks invested in that also giving you a +2 to also so you did not waste your time.

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