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KainPen's page

1,161 posts. Alias of Joshua Matherne.


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Ascalaphus has the correct answer by the book answer, but I find most GMs completely ignore flying skill check rules unless an AP calls for a check. I think this may be part of the reason it go rolled into acrobatic in the unchained consolidated skill rules. because it just get ignored all together so no one every put ranks. The fact that the rules really don't allow a character to even put ranks into it until level 7+ also puts a dampener on the skill. As you need a reliable way to fly before you can put a rank into it. At least using the unchained rules, It is a skill almost everyone puts some ranks in so if one of those checks come up you have a chance to make it.

I also notice most GM only use altitude as a factor and some like my self even ignore that and treat it like an fly is on off switch. you can melee attack all creatures that are also in flying status, only creatures with grounded status that can attack you are those with range weapons, or those your are in melee and that have the same reach as you. This limit the focus to just the 2d map we are using any way.

All altitude add to the game is extra paper work and book keeping that slows the game down. Same with the skill checks, it just slows the game down in combat. the system already and GM already has enough things slowing it down.

Ask your GM how he wants to run the fly rules, if it is by the book or if he want to ignore them. if this is PFS you are kind of stuck. Ignore them will speed up the game and give the GM less bs they have to worry about.

ryric wrote:
The 7th level in HeroLab is probably based on using it as a mount. These things presume you're using the critter in the most optimal way the author can think of, so think of the dire wolf as a tripping mount, wearing barding, negating hits with Mounted Combat. Is that worth 2 levels of adjustment? I personally don't think so, but that's likely where they're coming from.

It would not be two levels of adjustment because an awake dire wolf is 7 hit dice, not 5 like normal dire wolf. with effective bab as 7 level 3/4 bab class with 7 levels saves, feats, and ability points.

I think Awaken Animal fit in at what ever their hit dice is to be uses as cohorts, their stats are going to be higher then normal npc, especial after they get their 1st class level in actual class and get the ability boost from that. from the monster rules "Creatures with class levels receive +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 adjustments to their ability scores."

Entryhazard wrote:
KainPen wrote:

never though about maximizing, empowering awaken spell,That makes an awesome plant companion.

As far as I know you are going to have to ask your GM normally hit dice are a reflection of level. because every 3 hit dice = 1 feat every 4 = ability point raise. But then you have this whole effective level for monster to be cohorts which is very confusing. like a Worg is effective 5 level, as leadership is concerned despite it cr 2 being and hit dice only be a 4.

Actually it's 1 feat every 2 hit dice starting from 1 (so every odd)

yeah I was thinking 3.5 not pathfinder on that portion. more feats in pathfinder, another thing that support hide dice are their actual levels is base attack and saves are also based on it as well as most spell like abilities. There a few exceptions like Ogre-mage oni cast as 9 hit dice even thou they are only 8 hit dice.

nope no predator stuff, they are not even in the list of their horrific inspirations. Maybe because Predator is more action movie with slasher horror elements. The closest thing in the book that could be useful for a Predator Implacable Stalker template, but it is a bit supernatural heavy, works better more inspired of Jason, Micheal Myers and Freddy, since the thing returns to life based on characters nightmares. You could always swap that for maybe innate invisibility, I say A Orc/with Ranger or Slayer levels, with that template but remove Nightmare Resurrection and swap for invisibility, for them

Raving Nerd, I am not sure what your are talking about difficulty of CMD checks and moving in combat? CMD is not effected at all by moving in combat, unless you are entangled or fatigued ect. but it not the moving cause it, it is the other conditions are you talking about choose to fight defensively or go full defensive, and use the dodge bonus granted by that, which is higher if you have 3 ranks acrobatics to raise your cmd. If so yes that can be done. Also combat expertise also applies. Remember all dodge bonus stack so long as they are not from the same source, but they can also be lost by being caught flat-footed or things that normally deny you your dex bonus.

CMD is very easy to raise. deflection, insite, favored class bonus, race bonus, the list goes on and on. there are more ways to raise your CMD then there is to raise your CMB hence even a specialists at the upper levels can have problems against CMD. Mid levels it tend to work very well against humanoid creatures.

check out horror adventures, as The 20 STR Aristocrat, suggested it is the Alien Xenomorph, rules you need, the only thing different between hive and Xenomorph are the description slightly. there is even a hive template you can apply to other creatures to give the effect mention from alien 3 with Ripley describing, how that one moved and looked different due to it coming from dog or cow depending on what version of the movie you see.

never though about maximizing, empowering awaken spell,That makes an awesome plant companion.

As far as I know you are going to have to ask your GM normally hit dice are a reflection of level. because every 3 hit dice = 1 feat every 4 = ability point raise. But then you have this whole effective level for monster to be cohorts which is very confusing. like a Worg is effective 5 level, as leadership is concerned despite it cr 2 being and hit dice only be a 4.

Buri Reborn wrote:
Mind you, you can get crafting progress out of a 4 hour window with a higher DC. Idk about you, but I don't spend 8 hours eating, bathing, and so on. Adventurers don't need day jobs. That is their day job.

you also live in a house, with modern convenience. Think of it like going camping, how long does it take to setup a old time tent, gather fire wood, setting up fire pit, starting fire, cooking your food, then eating your food. even in the modern world average cooked meal takes 20-30 mins to cook and most people spend about 30 mins eating.This included talking. It also include modern temperature control devices and a lot of premade food items. now make something from scratch. you have to add food prep time in there also. if you have meal that require boiling water that is another 15 to 20mins. just to boil the water that is does not include going to get if from stream or water source provided you can find one. Same goes for the bath, you have to get to the water. Now lets add the time to get in and out of armor before and after bathing and sleeping. It is very easy to see how 4 to 6 hours of the day can be used up, just to take care of every day things that needs to be done. This is with out just time to relax.

I don't even use height in my games, I treat flying as a on/off state. It too much of a pain to have to keep track of all of that. It just slow the game down to me. I know some a lot of my group has at one point got a pack of 36 six sided dice. The cube that they come in they just place their mini on top of that. I have also see people just place their characters on top of a 6 side dice. When we actual use minis. I use VTT d20pro personally and they have status you can place on the character tokens to keep track.

you are using unchained optional rules, which are all GM territory, so ask your GM to make a call, or if you are gm make the call your self.

welcome to a poorly made feat. the only really use is for when people try to run directly past you. most often it will happen because of charge or if you are in the middle of a 15ft hallway. Even withdraw easily stop this feat from working. It is just to limited to the squares adjacent to you. Even reach does not help with this feat. the only things that help this feat function,in any way is terrain, or increasing your size so it makes it hard for people to just walk around your. Also another bad thing about it is a normal CMB check no way of really increasing it. While CMD gets bonus from deflection dodge, ect. I house ruled it in my game to work with any square you can reach.

With unchained it's revised action economy it is up to you to decide, but, I do the same thing Zenogu does and treated them as two weapon fighting, with many shot having the same function as improved two weapon fighting.

I never seen it used until I started to run way of the wicked, I have a guy running Phalanx Soldier fighter. He figured it be a good idea since the AP they are the bad guys and fighting mostly elves and human. It worked out for him, because there are lots of knights and cavalry men, who tactics written into the ap are to charges. I also see it used more since I switched to unchained action economy. Before switch to that I had another player who always charged tend to charge and would get taken out very quickly do to full attack in the next round. In the normal Action economy charge is a poor choice if you can't one hit kill or have pounce, Charge function better in the unchained action economy also.

yeah unlike other literary character, like Conan ect. that have tons of books about them and they doing all sort of crazy things. Willow is fairly simple I would say Willow fall into the lower level range. with Willow being level 3 or 4 character, I say two levels commoner, 1 level rogue or ending level 1 wizard.

Madmartigain being level 6 or 7. The bad guy knight level 5.

Kalindlara wrote:

If you can get access to the 3.5 D&D book Savage Species, there was a fire giant monster class in there.

That might work for what you want. ^_^

I would use this, someone did a pathfinder conversion of this book in these boards and update it frequently there is a pretty nice job of it done. I would search for that and use that as a guide.

This entirely depends on GM world, in Golarion we learn in one of the early APs that Drow are actual elf that that went horrible evil and under went unintentional magical transformation. So that there outside reflected there inside. That Transformation is what changes there hair color and skin color. Then from there Drow mate with other drow have nautally born drow. We also learn that this change can happen to any elf at any time and it is a dark secret among the elves or believe to be a fairy tail. Driders in Golarin are made from Fleshwarpinig experiments.

Forgotten Realms setting if I remember right Drow are evil evil that where driven underground and it was basically evolutionary and change from living underground for so long. While driders in Forgotten Realms are Drow that failed a right of passage test that Their god put them through and it is a punishment. Both worlds are very different. In how things come about.

So Ask your GM about his world.

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Lostcause78 wrote:
KainPen wrote:
Lostcause78 wrote:

That is a lot of attacks!

Pardon me for jumping in with a related 3rd party question-

What does Multiattack do for the original list of attacks:

Main Hand: +18/+13/+8/+3
Off Hand: +18/+13/+8
Natural Attacks: +18/+18/+18/+18

- as in which of them would be considered secondary attacks?

Been pondering making a natural attacks character but am finding it a little complex to figure out all the do's and do not's.

all the naturals are secondary and the numbers off if you are using two weapon fighting in combination with as I stated above and many others. the original total numbers are wrong, but the number of attacks are correct.

see j b 200 post for the correct numbers and what damage looks like. for this exact setup. This includes Multi attack, in these numbers. which is why they are +16 and not +18. it is just not labeled, like it was for TWF

if you are wondering what ones or secondary if you are only doing natural attacks see the monster book in the back, it list them. Bite, Claws Gore are all primary I think. while tails wings ect. are secondary unless it is the only form of attack.

Thanks for clarifying, and I assume the Bite, Gore and Claws become secondary because he's also using unarmed strike?

I'm amazed that you guys can keep all these rules in order, gives me a headache at times!

yes that is why. only reason we know them all is because most of us probably have GM before or have been gming since 3.edtion. Which requires a heavy knowledge of the rules. we have just adapted to the changes, between version. But even then we still get stuff wrong from time to time because we remember the older version rule instead of the current. we also get corrected often on these boards. like zza ni did above. I think 3.0 it could have been 3.5, but at some point only monks could unarmed strike with any part of there body. I think in 3.0 you actual had to declare which part of the body your where striking with also. zza ni was either remember that version of the rule or did not realize it was updated for Pathfinder. Because the wording for the monks unarmed strike makes it sound like it is something only he can do. This is left over jargon from the version in which he was the only one that could. someone corrected me on it my self at some point on these boards.

fretgod99 wrote:

You're skipping over the part that says EDL is capped at CL, not your pet's abilities. Those are two different things.

Also, characters can have multiple non-stacking pets. For instance Wizard 4/Druid 4. Boon Companion can be taken for each, but in neither case can the powers of either exceed the powers of the pet of a single class member of each respective class. The familiar is treated like a familiar of an 8th level Wizard, and likewise for the Druid.

So yeah, I agree that RAW is pretty clear. I think it pretty unambiguously disallows what you are arguing for.

fretgod99 in the on money here. There are also feats now that give familiars and animal Companions. at EDL or CASTER level at -X character level. It is often -3, in the example Fretgood99 has here, if the character has any those feats. That character can take boon companion again for those creatures.

The way packlord is written does not allow the feat to work. with out going multi class or take the one of the feats above.

Lostcause78 wrote:

That is a lot of attacks!

Pardon me for jumping in with a related 3rd party question-

What does Multiattack do for the original list of attacks:

Main Hand: +18/+13/+8/+3
Off Hand: +18/+13/+8
Natural Attacks: +18/+18/+18/+18

- as in which of them would be considered secondary attacks?

Been pondering making a natural attacks character but am finding it a little complex to figure out all the do's and do not's.

all the naturals are secondary and the numbers off if you are using two weapon fighting in combination with as I stated above and many others. the original total numbers are wrong, but the number of attacks are correct.

see j b 200 post for the correct numbers and what damage looks like. for this exact setup. This includes Multi attack, in these numbers. which is why they are +16 and not +18. it is just not labeled, like it was for TWF

if you are wondering what ones or secondary if you are only doing natural attacks see the monster book in the back, it list them. Bite, Claws Gore are all primary I think. while tails wings ect. are secondary unless it is the only form of attack.

A fighter/Hell knight can get max dex of 11 I think it could be 9, in mithril hell knight plate armor with a sash of war champion. but that is very specific build.

mithril Chain shirt is often best option for a Brawler, because of brawling armor property can only be placed on light armor, not so sure any more since the raised the price of said item.

amazing tool of manufacture can help on some items. depending on what they are tied too.

your number of attacks is correct, you can add another one in there on the main hand if you are hasted ect. Note all the natural attack when used with full attack with weapons, are treated as secondary so they are at -5 and do half str damage, Multi attack should reduce that -5 to -2 or -3. I don't remember the amount it reduces it buy.

ok thanks, I think I will go with CR for Grumble Jack because there is a way for him to pick up monster template to boost him on top of him gaining pc levels.

and for regular cohorts I will go with level -1. I was using Innate Item Bonuses, but there my players seem to get confused on buying and selling cost of stuff. Figure this maybe easier route to go.

Thread Revive, lol

I not sure if Mark will post back on this, but I was wondering, how should cohorts should be handle when using ABP, Should we be doing -1 level or greater, as leader ship is already a powerful feat?

Also how would monster cohorts work with this, lets use Grumble Jack from way of the wicked AP as an example, since I am actually running that ap now. He is a Ogre So he is 4 humanoid hitdice at some point he gains pc Class levels, So is ABP be based on his total hit dice or just his pc class levels?

also note that unchained magic items rules both the Innate Item Bonuses and Automatic Bonus Progression both fix the problem with blink back belts and make them viable options.

I think the Slayer has a few slayer talents that work well with thrown weapons also, in addition to Ranger thrown weapon combat style as an option, I could be just thinking about the combat style.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
KainPen wrote:
I think the 1000gp for mithril is worth 3 to 6 skill points. which the armor check penalty represents.

For starters, a mithral shield does not offer the effect of 3 skill points. The Armor Penalty for a Light Shield, which I advise the OP to use, is only -1. The Armor Check Penalty for a Heavy Shield, which the OP is proposing to use, is only -2.

A much cheaper way to remove the Armor Check Penalty is to just take off your shield when you have to use a Skill! Then the penalty is 0! Saves a thousand gold pieces.

KainPen wrote:
not worried about the weight

Not really. A heavy, Steel Shield only weighs 15 pounds. Making it mithral takes away only half that. 1000gp is a lot to pay to save 7.5 pounds.

KainPen wrote:
silver works for when you actually throwing the shield but when you have to bash with it and have spiked Shield on it you do -1 damage.

It is fair to say that Alchemal Silver makes inferior Shield Spikes. If the OP insists on Shield Spikes, then Alchemal Silver is not the way to go. My advice is that the OP not bother with Shield Spikes and get the Bashing Enchantment. With the Bashing Enchantment, no kind of Shield Spikes have any effect.

KainPen wrote:
As I stated it is debatable if you can even have an Adamantine shield. due to there being no cost listing.

Sure there is a cost listing:

Adamantine wrote:
Weapon | +3,000 gp

Shields are weapons.

KainPen wrote:
willing to destroy loot.

It takes all kinds. Some people want Sundering builds.

KainPen wrote:
Also darksol pointed out buy Adamantine shield spikes are not going to work as Adamantine

Not so:

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
A Spiked Shield? Yes, a Spiked Shield would get those benefits.

It does effect more then 3 skill points, Climb, Stealth, acrobatics,fly, swim. are all skills that suffer from armor check penalty thus for each -1 that is 1 less skill point for each of those skills. no it is not actual skill points but it is a Representative of them. I said 3 to 6 because I was only thinking of acrobatic,climb swim. You may not be able to just put she shield away, to avoid the penalty, if you are trying to tumble past an enemy or jump to one or climb up to 1. you are trying to stealth from cover. In combat situation you are not going to want to put up your shield to perform the skill check, or you are fighting enemies in water. So losing 1-7+ AC in these situations Also not to mention you have to waste a move action to remove the shield then another one to re-use it after the skill is used. This can have big effect on combat. So yes 1000 gp saves you from not even having to worry wasting you move actions and keeps you ac up with out having to worry about the loss of skill to 5 different skills.

the cost of a +1 to any one skill on a magic item is 100x the + squared. +1 to 5 skills cost you 2,500 you already beat the cost magic item that preforms the same function. Then you have reduced weight, counts as silver, reduce arcane spell failure. All rolled in to one item.

again you are assuming you are supposed to use the weapon cost to make an admaintium shield, no where does it say that is what you use. It would be a fair assumption, but it does not mean it is true. Hence the debate, if you don't believe me that a debate exist search these boards, it come fairly often. While I agree with that is what the price should be there are many other feel it can't be done. It is something that will vary from GM to GM.

I think the 1000gp for mithril is worth 3 to 6 skill points. which the armor check penalty represents.

silver works for when you actually throwing the shield but when you have to bash with it and have spiked Shield on it you do -1 damage.

best if you are not worried about the Armor check penalty or weight maybe being a problem then just got strait + on the shield either as weapon or armor, Armor being the best option because with a few feats you get +5 weapon and armor at such a cheep cost when using it for bashing. you would have to buy +5 weapon on it own for throwing. It end up being the same cost as any other sword and broad character for +5 defensive shield and +5 weapon.

As I stated it is debatable if you can even have an Adamantine shield. due to there being no cost listing. You have to make the an assumption it is the weapon cost. which really is not worth it. not even for the hardness or sundering properties. No one want to damage or destroy the loot.

Most items don't have a hardness or hp that is a problem that a normal sunder attempt would not work on it. if you are willing to destroy loot. The only things that you have to sunder and worry about other adamantine gear or armor. which you don't want to destroy because of the value.

Also darksol pointed out buy Adamantine shield spikes are not going to work as Adamantine weapon quality, All shield spiked do is treat the weapon as 1 size category larger, and allow the weapon to do piercing damage. being made of Adamantine have no effect on the item, it does not make the shield and Adamantine spiked shield.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I wouldn't go mithral. The value in a mithral weapon is that it inflicts damage as if it were Alchemal Silver. Why not just make an Alchemal Silver Shield? The -1 Damage? That's only for Piercing and Slashing Silver Weapons. A Throwing Shield is a Blunt Weapon. My advice is go Alchemal Silver unless you want a Sundering build.

I like the Bashing Enchantment. I like Quickdraw, Throwing Shields. I like the Quickdraw Feat. I like Blinkback Belts. Take a look at those.

I think he is going Mithral to get rid of armor check penalty, Also if you add shields spikes to the shield the shield now has -1 to damage if you go Alchemal Silver. Mithral and Darkwood are the best materials shields out of. Also no rules confusion when making them out of these also. According the the current rules there is debate if you can even make one out of adamantine shield, as There is no shield cost listed under that material, and this is due to it having no defense ability, and legacy issue, unlike mithrial and darkwood.

but as BlackBlood Troll all ways say a shield is a weapon, and it is, So I would rule you can make them out of adamantine so you pay the weapon cost. Which is I think 3000gp. That is really pricey to only go through one type of dr. It is actually better to, just put that money toward magic enhancement defensively, 25K you have a +5 weapon and defense. Then you get to 11 or Ranger level 6 take shield master feat. Then the defense enhancement counts as weapon enhancement, And DR is non issue.

I honestly would not worry about at level 3, 3,000gp is a drop in the bucket at level 10+. I am honestly surprised you had 3 characters die in an AP at the same time. Where the dice no good on your players side or did they do something stupid. where they to good on your side? at level 3 and you die you really should just make a new character. after having to pay for 2 raise dead then having to get rid of two negative levels. is far beyond wealth by level. If you are giving them their characters back with out having to do this. It make me wonder what went wrong. These AP are heavily favored in the players direction. If they did something stupid Let them deal with things how they are learning experience, also teaching them that running from combat is an option. if the dice where to heavy and good on your side, I would let come back as they where. As GM you kind of have to read the flow of the game and fudge your dices rolls down if you are rolling too hot. I never had that many of party die in one session, expect in custom very hard adventure and the players where being stupid and stubborn. The event end in a TPK.

highest to lowest only apply to attacks from high BAB (RAW). Extra attacks are not caused from high BAB, they are caused by other sources twf, haste, speed weapon. these are extra attacks and can come at any point you so choose.

I just want to make a note that VMC rules state it should not be combined with normal multi-class as it may cause unexpected issue. It is meant to be a replacement for multi classing. This could be example of one. Before even dealing with your question you should ask you dm if he even will allow you to multi-class and VMC.

Not sure if this should be in rules section or advice because it about unchained custom rules option. Feel free to move this to appropriated section.

How does INT increasing items effect unchained consolidated skills rule set. in normal rule set, They are tied to a skill and give you max ranks in said skill. Which makes sense to less book keeping and an int increase normally gives you 1 skill rank per mod +. But in unchained Consolidated skill you only get 1/2 your mod in + skill ranks

So do int increasing items with this rule set,
A still give max ranks tied to set skill like they used
B do they give you half skill points tied to x skill
C just increase half skill points

It be nice if the writer of this rule set can give their opinion on the how they should function, but I am open to see what others think should happen. Especially those for those that are using already these rules. As I am running a lot of unchained rules in my game. This has not come up yet, but it could very well in the near future as my group are starting to get to the point where they have multi stat increase items. here have a few pieces of treasure coming up that will have this type of increase.

James Risner wrote:
Not spelled out, but it's been advised (by Paizo staffers) that the simpliest would be to apply new spells.

Ditto on this, There is no FAQ on it that I know of but there are comments from the DEV team, in this message board from before FAQ system was even in place. This came up before because wizards gets x number of spells in their spell books at 1st level based on their INT.

yes all bonus are retroactive. but that spell has to be one you where allowed to take at level 1.

RAW All lock gaze would do is make the creature have to use it's standard action gazes attacks on the that you. and grant concealment against other targets. So it does prevent the possibly of having to make 2 saves in a row.

I think the intent of the spell was to be used against gaze attack creatures and grant other creatures averting their eyes status. Which is what I ruled in my Way of the wicked game last weak. I had a spell caster cast this on a medusa and he stayed just out of range so he would not have to make save. But gaze attack is not effected by concealment, unfortunately all Averting your eyes does is grant concealment to the person not averting their eyes and 50% to avoid gaze attack by the person who is actually averting their eyes.

PRD "Averting Eyes: The opponent avoids looking at the creature's face, instead looking at its body, watching its shadow, tracking it in a reflective surface, etc. Each round, the opponent has a 50% chance to avoid having to make a saving throw against the gaze attack. The creature with the gaze attack, however, gains concealment against that opponent. does nothing to the creature with the gaze attack. Short of blinding it"

It would not help others looking at the creature. Gaze works both ways as I stated above by you looking at the creature and it looking at you. It only going to stop the creature from looking at everyone but you.

Lincoln Hills wrote:

Gaze attacks function when you see them, not vice versa, so blinding the creature won't help, nor will setting up conditions where you have vision and they don't.

One mundane possibility, best suited to those with the Net exotic weapon proficiency, is to throw a sheet or other covering over the creature to break line of sight, but the odds of such a tactic working are strictly up to the GM.

not entirely true from PRD

"A creature with a gaze attack can actively gaze as an attack action by choosing a target within range. That opponent must attempt a saving throw but can try to avoid this as described above. Thus, it is possible for an opponent to save against a creature's gaze twice during the same round, once before the opponent's action and once during the creature's turn."

They can actual spend an action looking at you forcing you to save. the only way to avoid is by the ones listed in universal monster rules. Can't see the creature or by chance by averting your eyes. If you can see the creature you will have to make a save.

edit also Per PRD

"Gaze attacks can affect ethereal opponents. A creature is immune to gaze attacks of others of its kind unless otherwise noted. Allies of a creature with a gaze attack might be affected. All the creature's allies are considered to be averting their eyes from the creature with the gaze attack, and have a 50% chance to not need to make a saving throw against the gaze attack each round. The creature can also veil its eyes, thus negating its gaze ability."

Note Bold section covering a creatures eyes with a veil or closing blinding folding the creature will also negate the effect.

Building on Slayer, idea, Gestalt Slayer/Fighter(Martial Master archtype) might be perfect. The slayer portion covers, skills and theif abilities while keeping his combat high, The fighter Archtype give hims the martial flexibly to use those odd feats you don't have at a moments notice that make it seem like he can do anything, Including unarmed strike for punching camels, portions of the character. As well as more feats to give him all the feats he needs with out going epic or mythic. You could have a really good feel for Conan around level 7 or 8.

Must get GM to approve Gestalt rules thou.

I don't know lol Conan did use a bite attack against the guy he fought in the arena in the 1st arny movie. That is totally rage power, now.

to have fun you just have to do as you said Weirdo but looks like the OP wants accurate stats and portrayal.

I think problem steams from what Daw said, with literary characters and the power of the writer. This is why gygax and him at higher and lower levels for 1st edition at depending on book he was in.

I think this also why Gygax, made the 1st edition Barbarian the way he did in the unearth arcana to fill just about everything Conan did in the books, into a single class instead of having to multiclass/Duel Class him, but the amount of xp required to level that barb took forever.

In older version of dd it was easier to emulate the things Conan do because they simply feel under GM decisions(which is that writers power), like the bite attack I mentioned above. Back in the day it would have been just been described as critical unarmed strike.

Now there is so many feats, power ability and special rules to actual do these things. But here come the big Problem is they come at X level or they have so many requirements. It take character into those very high levels as there are so many of them. It often make the character to multi class also which also increase the level further.

I do think as you stated Weirdo that Conan fits better into the Slayer class as it compound of rouge and ranger which covers a lot of the ability Conan shows in the books, but it still miss a lot of points. there just may not be enough of feats in that single class to cover everything.

there are d20 conan books with his actual stats if you actual built him as the literary character and I think he is around level 28. He like all literary character are even larger than life then pathfinder hero's This is part of the reason Mythic rules exist, Conan would be 16 level barb, 8 level fighter and 8 level rogue, with 2 to 3 mythic tiers.

Here was his stats listed for 1st edition (you will notice at conan's peak of 40 years old he was level 36 total and most of his ability scores are 18's which is often highest achievable with out magic in those versions)

in the way of the wicked AP there is a magic item

Shroud of the Daywalker
Aura moderate necromancy; CL 9th
Slot none(this should be shoulder slot like all other magical shrouds); Price 18,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

This funeral shroud at first glance appears to be made of the finest
silk no doubt in some dark color such as black, burgundy
or deepest blue. However upon closer inspection, it reeks of
death and corruption.
When worn by the living, this shroud makes the wearer seem to be
undead. Nonintelligent undead cannot detect the wearer as if
cloaked by hide from undead. Even intelligent undead may fail
to notice you unless they succeed at a DC 11 Will save.
When worn by a vampire, however, this shroud has a very different
effect. The darkness woven into the cloak shrouds the vampire
and allows them to move about during the day. Instead
of taking damage from sunlight, they are only dazzled in areas
of bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
This magic item does not free a vampire from its need to sleep
however. A vampire who spends hours awake during the day
must make up those hours by sleeping in their coffing at night.
Regardless whether living or dead, once per day, as standard action,
the wearer may call forth the darkness within the shroud
to make them invisible for up to nine minutes.

Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, darkness, hide from undead,
invisibility; Cost 9,000 gp

I think where it says "or" option 2 it really should say "and" option 2.

that makes more sense and balancing option to me. there should be no option 2. you basically trade the save and the ability of missing with the attack and keeping your charge for not having to be in melee range ready to revive a full attack after you attack.

edit looking at the full txt of the whole thing, I think the intent was positive touch the ability to spontaneously cast was meant to be limited number times of day. with the option of change the spell into ranged touch that does half damage. it also gives you improved critical with these spells.

for number 1 yes you keep all your gear, someone mention this same question in the product board and Mark respond here with page number reference to the rules.

has anyone looked back at 3.0 ed, I could have sworn there was a line in there about -5 penalty to bab. It may have been removed in 3.5 since it was understood how BAB worked. Then it was never carried over to pathfinder either. I don't have my books on me so can't check at the current time. it also could have been in 2.0 to 3.0 converter PDF that wizards put out way back then so people could understand changes.

remember weapon focus, weapon training, the bonus on the weapon, insite bonus on attack roll luck ect, Flanking all apply. To the CMB when trying to trip with a particular weapon even weapon finesse. All that just from core book raising CMB is not that hard. the problem is CMD is even easier to raise, since deflection, dodge ect bonus also apply to cmd, and combination of str and dex, your best core only option for a dex build is going to be agile maneuvers or weapon finesse, also if you can make a person flat footed or lose their dex and dodge bonus to ac they also lose it to CMD also. that will help you with deficient.

they may not be able to legally do it now, since the games have been release and re-licence for it Enhanced editions, via beam dog and steam, some of the new add ons that they made are very similar to a 3.5 barbarian instead of 2nd ed version, I think black guard is also an option as a class.

lmao, even my way of the wicked evil group don't even kill people that surrender. That is a waste of good slaves, servants or potential gladiators that are really meant as pet food for their hydra. they do kill them eventually but they find a use for them for a little while at least. you are in a group that is playing heavy Chaotic group, you are not going to fit in with the group, my group is normally like this also, their aliments are most often this way, I never though they could do any lawful aliment because of this but they proved me wrong when going into way of the wicked. They Do lawful evil just as well. They just don't like the Lawful Good or neutral aliments and prefer chaos or ordered evil based games. it also seems like the two extreme alignments CE and LG cause the most problems with groups I have played in. I notice also most people like to play CN because it allows them to do what ever they want when they want. One what their idea of what their characters should do at any given time. The group you are playing with now is really a CN group, no matter what is actual the aliment is actual on their paper.

j b 200 wrote:

1) why not use the existing Ring of Force Shield?

2) why not use Bracers of Armor +4?

3) why not have the player just buy a wand of shield?

It is unlikely that you will find sufficient answers to all 3 questions.

Even if you want to skip the "price it like some other similar item" and just jump strait to the table, you are still pricing it wrong. The table already tells you that this item, since it gives you a "other" bonus to AC, it should be 2500 x (bonus^2). So 40,000gp.

This comes up ever few weeks. And is full of cheese.
1) people want shield instead of mage armor b/c shield bonuses are hard to come by (i.e. only from shields). So if you use a two handed weapon (optimized) or you aren't proficient in shields, it is likely to stack with all other AC bonuses.

2) It is a long duration spell, so it even at CL 1, it will last all fight. Meaning that there are almost no opportunity costs to using it vs. a spell that only lasts rounds per level.

3)"But I can just use a wand." Yes, but you have to use an action to draw the wand (move), then a standard to activate. Meaning you are using a Full round. Also you either put a lot of resources into UMD or you could fail to successfully use the wand or even have a mishap. This ring eliminates all that.

4) it has a large non-scaling bonus, again meaning that you can use CL and get all the benefit.

5) It is a personal range spell. Personal range spells are usually significantly better than similar spells of some level (see also true touch). Mage Armor is also 1st level, but that is an armor bonus. Most level 1 characters can afford at least studded leather, and by level 2 you probably have a chain shirt, so it has almost no use for anyone other than the wizard and monk, even at level one. The next best spell for AC? Barkskin is a 2nd level spell and you need CL 9 before it hits +4. Shield of faith is 1st level, but you need CL 12 to hit +4, and it is a deflection bonus which means it won't stack with the ubiquitous Ring of...

just wanted to add to your list that a wand also take up use of a hand, so you still can't twf or thf with it, with out dropping the wand on ground and leaving it vulnerable, you then have to spend another action to put the wand away. it just another reason why the item that the OP is trying to make should cost a lot more then the wand, it takes no hands and stays on the person at all times, it is protected by the users saving throws while wand on the ground is not.

problem is how often do players fight and how long are their battles even once a hour is not enough. most players and game I see have at least and hour to 30min in between fights, it is still a since infinite use. every other battle they may not be able to activate it or every battle, that is entirely group and play style dependent on how strong it is.

Like my regular group I GM for. They clear a whole 3 story building in like 40 rds, they just hit everything fast and take no breaks, kind of like a swat team. that way they have to buff less and bad guys have less time to buff them selves. So your hour use item would actual effect my group it would wear off after the 1st min, then they would have to go with out, for the rest of the encounters for the day. Do to their play style. but the other groups I play with, it would not even phase them at all.

Make it 3 use a day item at that price I think that is fair. Or raise the price to what it neededs to be worth around 27 to 50k

you really have to be careful with this one, even with limited activation use. This = infinite use brooch of shielding, and a also +2 animated ghost touch heavy shield which is +7 piece of armor. Best bet is to make it a 2 or 3 uses a day item with a 1 min duration that is standard action to activate.

I mean really compare the the spell to these items.
Spell +4 shield bonus = +2 heavy shield give you the same bonus

Spell does not require in hands to use and does not interfere with spell casting, standard action to activate = animated +2 shield bonus animated is move action to activate to perform the same function the spell but only last 4 rounds not a full minute

Spell is a force effect and applies to incorporeal creatures attacks = to +3 armor property of ghost touch

Spell absorbs all magic missiles > then brooch only takes in 101 point of damage of missiles.

Spell not items slots > items slots required to emulate this effect is 2.

the what you are seeing and run into this another example of this aspect of the falcon and bracers of falcon aim and it's most recent nerf. is that some 1st levels should not be 1st levels spells. but for legacy reason they remained at that level of spell.

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