I really like these
+1 ingore two weapon fighting all together, just leave a statment saying pummel is a type of full round action that can't be combined with two weapon fighting.
+1 on this also
The Capstone could be One-Two-Three-Two (Jab,Cross,lead hand hook, Cross for those that never praticed boxing.)And allow up 4 attacks as standard action at -3 or -4 on the attack rolls.
big +1 here Each time the brawler can pick a new type and each brawler can be a little differnet, bralwer weapons, Close weapons, and all the Maneuvers.
Add improvised weapons in this group.
+1 on this would save the class a little less mad.
that and medium armor prof. this class would be perfect.
It is the actual crafting feats limit you to 1000 gp per day not the craft magic item rules. While adventure you are limited to 4 hours of work a day and it must be uninterrupted is under magic item crafting rules but it only nets 2 hours of work progress. Also in the crafting magic Item rules you are limited to only 1 item a days so you can’t fast accelerate one item get 1,000 gp out of it and then fast craft another getting 1,000gp. Thus preventing you from getting 2,000 gp of work at all. Thus the only reason to fast craft is to save yourself more hours in the day to do something else, during down time, such a retraining, maybe a profession check, rp bar room scene or single day encounters. Or to get a full 4 hours’ worth of work while adventuring. Sucks but that is RAW. The wording in the feats would have to change to allow 2,000 gp per day. As they are they are all “Crafting X takes 1 day for each 1,000gp in its base price.”
I your still limited to 1000gp a day with magic items you can't do 2000 gp a day. accelerated crafting just frees up more time in the day. It allows you to do 8 hours of work in 4 hours, but your still not allow to go over 1000gp a day per what the creation feats say. It meant to be used while adventuring giving you the ability to do 500gp a day instead of 250. Since you only net 2 hours of work while adventuring for 4 hours of work.
it all depends on the adventure 2nd darkness is a mostly humanoid vs humanoid even at higher levels, it is useful so it all depends on what you encounter, size becomes the problems as davidvs have stated the problem is bigger = harder and stronger and hardier. it is a bad concept but it is what we have to work with. This is a side effect of giving monsters ablity scores.
I have always been a fan of Ad&d monsters because some monsters even smaller was where always a threat. Bulette was a good example of this it used to be only large and was a nasty thing to fight from level 1-20. now they are huge and not even a threat past level 9. Scorpions where super nasty and they were small back then and a threat at any level. Biggest one no bigger than a man, now they are almost colossal in size and not really a threat. Also because they are so big now it makes it hard to use more then one of these creatures to really make pc shake in there boots because they are too big and take up to much room on the map.
because it is a standard action to do it, and it last for 1 round so when your next turn comes up it is expired.
I missed the part about raising his str and con but raising it by 3 is nothing compare to raising it by 12 str and 4 and gain 6 natural armor reach and increased weapon damage and out right immunity to fear. Also again moral bonus is the 2nd most common bonus so they don't stack, if there is a bard or cleric in the party odds are you are wasting that feat. your better off using the money for vicious gain 2d6 damage. or save the money all together and put it toward something else.
lets try this again. every time i try to edit and post this extra stuff in never takes.
1 get rid of Grudge Fighter it a moral bonus and it the most common bonus so does not stack with most buff you are going to get.
2 drop reverse feint, it cost you full attack or move to give your enemy and extra attack at +4 vs you, for you to get 1 attack at +2 worst feat ever. you going to be getting lots of aoo's any way and have bonus to hit from your rage powers.
3 drop Resilient Brute, replace with fortification on your armor this is always active or that helm that does the same function and add +1 luck to ac. it cost about 5k and both of these work on sneak attack also. it's called Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (the helm)luck bonus to ac is very rare. I think this is the only place i know to get one.
4 replace Courageous with vicious, Dr x/- works on it's kick back damage so at level 12 you immune to it. it going to net you more damage 2d6, all you are going to get out of courageous is bonus to hit +2 which is. you already getting a moral bonus to will saves while raging so that negates what you get from this. You will be raging all of the time you get plenty of uses in a day.
yeah, but mythic eldritch is mythic feat so it does not count toward normal feat limit. so 2 normal feats. If the dm goes mythic , Also mythic Eldritch gets you the capstone if game went over 20, if not then your looking at 4 feats to 5 feats depending on what you want out it.
if you want everything 5 feats, with one semi useless feat. which is the 1st one. Touch rage is good when you have absolute nothing you can do, but you can't use it on your self so that why I say it is semi useless. The bloodline actual has good skill to mix with it for skill focus so I see that not really a feat tax. +6 to survival I will take that. =) improved gets you +6 to str or immunity to fear and +2 natural armor. considering you can't take the feat till level 11 str for melee is the better choice, especially barb. then greater at 17 gets you size bonuses and all the other ability function at full power. so not bad a feat chain to take at all.
like I said it not as mad as you would think because stop your str at 15 or 16 you save 7 to 10 points in point buy. which you can use in Cha and net your self the same ability score in str at the end and have a actual useable Cha. no minus to intimate, not inapt social on skills. take dangerously curious as back ground trait and all of a sudden use magic device is actual useable for any class.
Reverse Feint I'd pass on that one feat also.
I would never bother with sunder as feats, busting up the treasure is just bad lol. just keep Eldritch heritage in the back of your head. It something I would take at the later levels. +9 because that when it became effect also retraining to it would not be bad either. it gives time to see if gm goes mythic and if he does it will only cost you two feats for all the powers and only cha of 13 which you could buy a tome to increase you cha if you don't tank it completely. You can get retrain sunder and toughness. you’re not going to miss the hp touch of rage is really a small bonus tax, but it an option if you have nothing else to do or can't get to and enemy and someone else can. so 4 to 7 times a day is a good number of uses for the ability. The real power comes from the +6 inherit bonus to str, saves over 150k in books, immunity to fear +2 natural armor is a bonus one. Giant size is the other big one by the time you get it you have 17 one min uses a day. another +6 to str +4 to con makes up for those hp missing from toughness and another +4 natural armor, making up for loss of dex and increased size ac loss. Gain increased weapon damage from it increasing in size and reach.
I find this bloodline makes less mad then you would think, because you don't have to have your str as High when starting off. you can avoid the 17 or 18 in str. giving you extra point in your point by to put in cha and something else. You end up with same str you where original planning on by doing that. But like you said it a bit feat heavy, minimum 3 feats or 2 with mythic. WIth my hellknight I had lots of spare feat from the fighter levels so it was awesome to find this when I did. I had no clue what feats to take. What is your current point buy looking like on build or is GM having you roll?
for pure power don't skimp on CHA take eldrich hertigae feats with orc blood line, nets you +12 to str total stackable with rage. +6 natural armor immunity to fear +4 con you become large, -2 dex, and you can make others mini rage for a round gaining + half your level on attack damage and will saves and +3 or 6 to surival checks. If your GM plans on going Mythic mythic eldrich ertiage feats saves you 3 in the chain you do not have to take.
I already ran 2nd darkness with my group, during the mythic play test it went well. Just pause current campaign. If you want to do a play test have the group make new characters, you can try to do 2nd darkness but your best bet is small module. Also note crimson throne and 2nd darkness are 3.5 not pathfinder AP, Rise of the runelords was updated in the anniversary edition. So you would have to do a lot of editing and that is a lot of work. Because not only are your putting in new classes, but also adjust what’s currently there to Pathfinder rules. I been there lol, so I would not recommend doing it for short play test. Mythic was easier as it was just like adding a templet to monsters. But you could start working on moding it out for later for when the book does come out.
I don't see the problem with fabricate working either. 25k worth of diamond dust dust = 25k of diamond dust if you want to waste the 5th level spell so be it or you can just go to your local store and swap them them out and not waste the spell. for the craft check I would use craft jewelry.
It was not point buy it was 4d6 drop the lowest die. system some times random dice rolls created high point system characters. This how all characters where rolled in this campaign. I manged to get really great rolls with my hell knight and slayer and not so good ones on my hunter same with my friends hunter. The slayer as noted in slayer discussion out scored my hell knight, but my hell knight out shines it by a good bit and is more versatile. Both where created with similar theme and use the same weapon but, I never though the hell knight would out shine this the slayer class, but it does. That is something I did not expect at all out of limited weak PrC the whole reason I played the hell knight for rp reason.
Back on subject of brawler The person playing that brawler rolled those scores. Which is also a simulation devs should take in to consideration, because not every gm uses point buy system. I will say the other brawler out shined this brawler by a good bit and his scores where lower also, the grappling and pining the enemy's was very very useful. It was actual taking out enemy's faster then attacking. Thanks to rapid grappler feat. while this brawler was doing a lot more damage.
Now all of this is something a normal fighter can do but the really shine moment was when the other brawler pulled out +1 flaming composite long bow and started using effectively from martial maneuvers. I think that what the devs where looking for in the play test, are some of these ability effective and have a chance to shine. martial maneuvers does it shines brightly. Does it help it stand out from fighter and monk, yes that one ability makes it stand out. I really wish fighters had an ability like this already. I think it what has been missing from them from the beginning.
Also these characters where test in a live running home brew campaign, and where able to jump right in, with new clue where the story may be going or what they may or may not face, like in AP and where they effective, yes, where they fun, yes especial the hunters, but that is because there is more then one in the group make them more effective. I actual picked one class I had serious doubts on the hunter and if it was even needed and one I expected to be good Slayer and turned out it each one changed my opinion about them while playing. The character will be adjust again come the next test with the adjustment. The guys at Paizo is planing. The close weapon group being added sounds really good for brawlers and make them more flavorful, I think they need medium armor prof. and new cap stone and they will be good to go.
I support mbauers suggestion of renaming flurry to Pummel. It sounds way more fun and suite to the class.
I belive it was a FAQ,in boards and issuse of dragon mag. I remember it was brought up with question of uncanny dodge and improved evasion stacking from muliable classes. Maybe it was 3.0 my 3.5/3.0 days are kind of blured together. I did not start playing 3.x until the epic level book came out and 3.5 was out months after.
If I recall correctly in 3.x it actually granted you the class ablity and was allowed to stack with class that add the ablity granting them improved evasion. I don't think that is possiable any more, but it is not restricted by armor, save vs all or none. is what it does.
I have not gotten to play test this class and more than likely won't get to, but My GM is constantly complain about the alchemist and all it bomb ability’s. With touch ac just getting easier and easier to hit constantly doing damage or add effects ect, combing it with mutagen bonus to ac + increase to dex just makes it worse and worse and worse. There are not a lot of ways to counter this other getting behind full cover or removing visibility some kind of way.
The talk of giving investigator the ability get heal poisons sparked and idea. Maybe it would be nice for an for investigator to be a counter to the alchemist. Give him talent that lets him counter bomb much like spell casting counter spelling. As a ready action, as alchemist can counter bomb with a successful alchemy check to identy compant used and make a counter agent to the bombs or disable device for delayed bombs. They can use it x times per day int mod. A talent doing the same thing maybe make anti mutagen. Investigator can make an anti-mutagen, make it a check like dispel magic to remove the mutagen effect.
Don't make it too easy to do but make it at least possiable.
Wow. Ya. Suddenly I see the Hunter as the Druid/Cavalier mix. That is way more interesting.
me and my friend built twin elf tiger riders out of hunter and 2 levels of fighter, they out shine everyone else. Hunter are really good in group of more then one and worked well while mounted. we did not have a lot of ac, but we where getting a ton of attack and bonus from tigers grabing appoants, teamwork next feat on the list to get with these guys is cavalry formation and coordinated charge.
We play tested 5 of the class last night I will cover the build and experience in each class discussion. We had 2 hunters , 1 slayer and 2 brawlers Alchemist. They Started at level 10 and hit 11 middle of the night. (I found out today we may have botch the brawler part of the play test because one person did not know you need medium a proficiency but I will post positive things I did notice. Build I only have the build of one. and that was missing 3 feats and had no martial moves and was missing skill points So I had to fix the build)That what we get for the it getting made last minute. unlike me and my friend that made the hunters and slayer. the brawlers where made at the table that night. Both where dwarfs
Dwarf Brawler 11
Ac 25, touch 20, flat 17
Feats (fix ones)
Brawler Bonus 2 Weapon focus unarmed strike
Maneuver training (none was selected on this build originally the other was grappling build)
Gear: Amulet of might fist +3, Ring Protection +2, Cloak of resistance +2 (Originally a +1 mithril breast plate)I changed it to mithril chain shirt +1 brawling for next play test, +2 belt of dex and str, Boots of elven kind.
Skill:Acrobatic 19, Appraise 10, climb 15, heal 11, Intimidate 5, Knowledge dungeoneering 9, History 9, local 4, Planes 6, Arcana 6(player like to know what he is fighting and be able able to make assistance check on these so he always takes a bunch of these.) Perception 16.
Back ground traits Rich Parents and bullied (originally there where none picked)
ok first things i notice about this class even with medium armor both brawlers where still getting hit a lot but being dwarfs with high cons and d10 hp was not that big of a deal. they where tanking well as could be expected. one of the dwarfs was using his grappling to the fullest grappling pin and hog tie appoints for the slayer to take care of or to let the hunters kittys chew on them, then would move to the next target. This build i post was mostly just attack and doing damage every now and again he would use martial maneuvers to pick up vital strike feat, but not to often. The other dwarf would use it to pick up dodge and mobility to increase his ac when he would draw aoo from targets, so the rest of the party could move into combat more freely. Martial maneuvers was the shining moment for this class and I would say the night. needless to say every one forgot to buy a ranged weapon, so only the alchemist had ranged methods of attack. we did find some +1 flaming composite long bows str mod 5 pull, this was the saving grace when we ran into flying bad guys, the hunters where able to cast spider climb on there pets so they could attack flying creatures closest to the wall but the grappling dwarf uses martial maneuvers to save the day, by picking up a quick use of proficiency with the bow, point blank shot and deadly aim. He and the slayer are the only ones that had the str to pull the bow, but the slayer did not even get a chance to use it between the tigers and that brawler.
So all and all Martial Maneuvers is the best part I can see from this class so far. even if it is short use you get plenty of times to use and can pull off a much need feat chain to save the day. I really wish fighters had this ability it would actual make them a much better class and there would be a lot less fighter suck threads. I would suggest giving brawlers medium armor proficiency. to increase there ac a bit more. I still say limit flurry to light armor. But still leaves heavy armor to fighters ect. It will make up for the lack of wisdom bonus to ac and slower ac bonus compared to that of monk. Player can choose between higher AC or flurry. It may help people make there idea bar room brawler. Also will help out more when they can afford mithril medium armor.
speaking of mithril armor and this class, brawling is ideal armor property for this class to pick up. Sean maybe we you can answer this before the book comes out. Brawling calls out for light armor. Does it work mithril medium armor since they are consider light expect for proficiency? I am sure it would come up later on the boards.
That was a rule in 2nd Edition.
That was not even 2nd edition rule. the 2nd edition optional rule from critical fumbles was you lost not only that rounds attack but the next as general suggestion. As you had to take the round to get up from prone, pull your weapon out of table you hit instead, draw a new one because it broke. ect. Most characters only got 1 attack around so it was not a big deal. as it seems.
Most dm had house rules of critical fumbles and you as a bunch of different things could happen. mine was make a dex check and see if you drop your weapon. if you passed you lost any remain attacks. unless you rolled a 1 on your dex check. it would then negate the fumble. fail drop your weapon then had to waste your move to pick it back up or draw a new one.
+1 that add more spice and reason for the class to have int
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
The problem with awesome blow it is really really weak. It nothing when compared to improved shield Slam can do almost the same thing better.
Awesome blow biggest weakness is that it is a standard action. Why waste your time doing knocking someone away 10ft and doing a little damage. when you can full attack and do lots of damage, or do something in a full attack that may give you an aoo getting another attack and so on. it the worst feat\ability to ever see on a monster. It maybe good at lower levels say 1-8 but after that it is a waste of time. If it where a free action in combination with an attack or full attack once a round. Even in place of attack like trip. Would make it better. It would be a good level 20 ability and give Brawler or Monk it would give that Jet Li, Jackie Chan Kungfu movie feel to it. If it function like that. But even then it is still lacking as you can't add any bonus to it like you can with trip or any of the combat maneuvers because there no improved awesome blow feats ect.
We play tested 5 of the class last night I will cover the build and experience in each class discussion. We had 2 hunters , 1 slayer and 2 brawlers Alchemist. They Started at level 10 and hit 11 middle of the night.
Dampir svetocher Slayer 11
Ac 24, touch 16, flat 21
Slayer Talent 2 Fast Stealth
Gear: +1 Undead Bane Ghost Touch Nodachi, Mithril Breast Plate +3, Ring of Pro +1, Amulet of natural Armor +1, Belt of Giant Strength +2, Boots of Elven Kind, Cloak of Resistance +3. 2 Wands of Cause light wounds.
Skill:Acrobatic 15, climb 12, Disguise 7, heal 4, Intimidate 21, Knowledge dungeoneering 7, Geo 7, local 7, Nobility 10, Religion 7, Perception 14, ride 6, sense motive 12, stealth 16, survival 8 swim 8, use magic device 18
Back ground traits Race Traits: Half- Forgotten Secrets Knowledge Religion, Knowledge Nobility.
This is what I noticed about this character and where he shined and did not evasion as always great thing to have saved him several times. Sneak attack was only 3d6 despite getting it all the most of the time at the night it did not seem like it was really increasing character potential. I used Favored target almost every turn and it help when improved my intimidate skill allowing me to get more sneak attacks from shatter defenses and made things a bit easier to hit.
I could never get arcane strike off because I always spent swift action on favored target even when I did not kill some one I would spend the next swift action to get my next target. I found my self getting hit a lot also because limited defense with this build and class.
Favored target is what really make this class shine, but I think there needs to be a slayer talents that lets you study as many targets you can with what ever action it is. example when you get 2 targets at 5th level. The talent would let you study 2 targets in a single move action. and at level 10 3 target in a single swift action. It something nice to have but not necessary for every slayer that why I say make it a talent. It frees up the slayer swift action at later levels so he can use it the 2nd round for something else. It also make losing that move action at lower levels not as bad.
The skill bonus are a nice + to the feature also.
This is the most solid of the class I think coming out the box but it is not as fun as I thought it was going to be. It felt very under whelming while play when I compared it to my fighter/Hell knight. I though the sneak damage would be nice, but it was not worth the loss of aoo and what skill focus was giving to my hell knight in intimidate.
Also my hell knight was hitting a lot more because he had more feats to work with. Furious focus made sure my first attack always hit along with my skill focus made my odds of intimidate much higher. Also My hell knight was able get that feat that lets you intimidate as free action all targets with in 30ft when I drop a target to zero hp. All the hell knight end up with higher ac no armor check penalty because of fighter training and hell knight armor training and mithril hell knight armor. He can move faster because of the travel domain. He can take more Aoo because he has combat reflexes making him a better team player. He also has eldrich heritage and orc bloodline making him immune to fear and giving him bonus to str and natural armor. The slayer just lacks the feats or sneak attack damage to compare with that kind of class. It is a prc, If i was full fighter I am sure i could out shine it this class also. unless their some more useful slayer talents. It need some kind of boost. I think combing this class with rouge actual weakened it a lot.
I had a lot more fun playing the 2 hunter with my friend. Those two really out shined everyone because hunter just get better the more of them there are. I though it was going to be the least fun one to play.
The two brawlers seem to out shine this class also and seemed more fun also then this class but I will talk about that in the brawler thread tomorrow.
Me and my friend had that problem with the BaB and feats. he was picking our feats when we were brain storming the characters. When I went to actual put them on paper. I noticed we could not have a few of them without levels in fighter so we did two level dip in fighter. to make up and get improved critical at 10th level. That set up the team work feat at level 11/ 9th level hunter. Thanks to boon companion feat though and magical knack back ground trait we really did not lose much. we end up with 1 extra feat so we picked whatever, he choose toughness I chose combat casting.
Maybe it did not seem that bad because there was two hunters, and melee it did not seem that bad for us. The team work feats can quickly add to higher effectiveness, especial with cat companion, that pounces then grabs all in the same turn. Then we have bonus to hit the target because it is grappled. If it provoke aoo it sets off a whole bunch of them. From opportunist at +5 to hit, if one of us or the cat critical same thing happens. number of attacked can end up well into 9 or 10 around depending on haste. Maybe when they make somemore ranged team work feats it will do the same thing.
we can only wait and see I guess. I see this class actual having more issues with ranged attack over melee because animal companion are not capable of doing ranged attacks.
Jessie Scott wrote:
I agree with you as I stated before, I don't think the bab needs to be adjust so much as changing the animal focus bonus to be morale, circumstance, or competence. This would then allow it to stack with belts fix some of the issues with bab, much like Alchemical bonus does for the Alchemist. Without stepping on rangers toes to much.
I am going to post my build in a bit, but there is no need to flank with this class and get sneak attack 90% of the time. the problem I found with it in my play test the other night was its low ac and it seems like it ability to do damage was not made up by sneak attack, sneak attack needs a boost of about 2d6 which I suggest could be add as an advanced talent. This class could use a few more feats also, if you want to get sneak attack 90% of time it heavy feat investment not leaving room for talents to be used for something else useful.
I did not think I would say this but my Fighter/Hell knight out shines this guy by a mile, and my hunter had slightly better scores then my hell knight. The problem is the fighter portion of my hell knight bonus feats freed up normal feats for increased efficiency in combat or other uses this class just can’t get. I feel like I got more flexibility out of my hell knight. this class needs more skill points and something else to it. I will get into that later when I post build and summary.
We play tested 5 of the class last night I will cover the build and experience in each class discussion. We had 2 hunters , 1 slayer and 2 brawlers Alchemist. They Started at level 10 and hit 11 middle of the night.
Elf Fighter/Hunter 2/9
Ac 24, touch 16, flat 19
Fight Bonus 1 Weapon Finesse
Hunter Bonus Teamwork: shake it off
Gear: Elven Curved Blade +1 Agile, Mithril Chain Shirt +3, Ring of Pro +1, Amulet of natural Armor +1, Belt of Physical Might +2 dex and con, Cat boots Cloak of Resistance +2
Skill: climb 6, Handel Animal 15, Heal 7, Perception 18, Ride 18, spell craft 10, survival 16
Back ground traits Fencer, and Magical Knack
This my friend idea was to make twin elf hunters, we were thinking Dino riders but GM said no Dinos did not fit campaign but big cats where fine. I not sure what his scores are as I don’t have his sheet, but mine end up better. He had higher con then me and int. I remember that. I choose to go with higher Cha because these characters are in a camp, similar to king maker and user king maker town building rules. We are only playing them for the play test and then going back to our original character’s and these will be placed in town for building ect.
My thought on the hunter is if they are more than one they can be over powered, but on their own they are very weak. I understand the original idea that range, pet master, but we end up as mount combat. If there was just one hunter it the group it would be under whelming class. The fact that we had 2 and two animal that got the bonus team work feats. Really increased their effectiveness and saved our hides a lot. We keep the hunters grouped together so us and the animal had a constant +3 to saves, the aoo actual did not come in to play a lot so we really did not get to use those feats. We did not use the animal focus at all, it seem like almost a waste to even do it. the bonus are nice but limited uses per day or low duration is a problem, I think there needs to be more of them. As others have stated characters are going to buy belts because they are constant bonus all the time this is going to make these feature even more useless or limited to other feature players don’t want to use or may not be useful to the characters actual build.
The hunter his also hurt but ¾ bab, but I feel this is a need balance for the class. A few level dips in fighter or another full bab fixes the issues without much loss. Maybe there should be an animal focus that add a small bonus to hit. Up to +3. Maybe instead of enhancement bonus animal focus use be Competence or Circumstance bonus. This would also be a nice boost and make the class more viable for single hunter use. Maybe away to give the effects of animal focus to your pet at the same time you get it would be nice but cost double uses. Especial for a party with a single hunter.
Spell casting needs improvement I think also. Druid spell list is just not really effective at low levels, like a cleric or wizards lower level spells list. I think it needs a boost maybe give druid spell casting progression, stop at six and maybe spell power function 2 or 3 levels lower but not number of spells.
I will have to say I had a lot of fun play this class with my friend it was really fun yelling wonder twin power activate lol, and doing everything in combined tactical fashion. Casting spider climb on the tigers so they could run up the wall to bite at a flying creature that was next to it was fun. But if alone hunter in a group is just hurting and not that good and seems like it would be rather boring. The more hunters there are the more broken this class can become. So I am not sure how to balance this out.
to sum this up, This class only shine if there is more then one in the group and that one has similar feats choice.
How would these feat work together?
Let’s Say I have a character with sneak attack and these feats.
on the surprise round he is next to target attacks, hits the target with power attack, Courgon smash lets me intimidate as free action. If I cause that target to be shaken. and Take my 2nd swing from hell cat pounce. Is his he flat footed because shatter defenses make him so because the shaken condition or does the hell cat pounce the target is not flat-footed against this second attack win out. This is a case of Specific vs Specific.
trying to build a slayer for play test and was thinking it may go good together but i am not sure how that works together.
While the favored target is interesting, I would much rather have them have ranger favored enemy ability. Favored target seem like it should be a hunter skill or Assassin skill. It seem to broad a range of a skill for Slayers, Slay specific things. Dragon Slayer, Giant slayer, Man Slayer, Dwarf Slayer, Vampire slayer ect.
I know someone mention Int does not seem like something a slayer would use. I think based on the description of the class it is. Int would also support the function of Favored target, As slayer seems to know about all anatomy of foes for him to shift and study a target so quickly. I also think more knowledge should be add to the class as class skills if this is the case. skill point should be at least 6 if that if the case.
if the class should be Wisdom based as SKR stated early post, I think the skill points are correct but it should be used favored enemy instead of favored target. This shows that Slayer and learn and study specific things for a long time. I think the class should have a few more knowledge as class skill anyway or maybe that can be resolved in archetype for specific types of slayers such as demon slayer getting knowledge planes instead of knowledge local as skill.
I am trying to build a slayer for tomorrows night’s game. is the slayer talents going to be increased in number? they seem to be passive or range combat heavy, not a lot of melee options or options at all considering they get these every 2 levels.
I really don't like a lot of them. here a few suggested to add and some new ones that would fit the class I think. They can be exluse to slayer even though it is a ranger rouge hybrid, it will help it stand out from them a little more. they could also be weaked ect.
Weapon Bane requirement level 6+ and weapon Training Talent. By knowing exact weak points of his enemies the how to use his weapon against them. as a swift action a Slayer may apply weapon Bane weapon property that applies only to his favored target or quarry. This feature does not actual increase weapon enhancement bonus so it does no go through DR.
Critical target: Level 6+ once per day for every 3 levels after 6 Slayer can reroll a unconfirmed critical attack vs his favored target or quarry.
Favord defense: slayer can replace instead getting Favord traget bonus to hit, slayer may convert this to defense gaining a dodge bonus to ac vs. favord target instead.
+1 Priest Idea, cleric are already battle combat proficent, and if you use war domain, you are already a war priest. There are no pure divine casters. like wizard ect, all Divine caster are combat proficent. It could use the same spell casting system Arcanist maybe with more spells per day and some other buffs.
Sounds a lot better, I glad your not changing the spell casting system for this class either, it is a good system and I like to see more of in future eventual in pathfinder 2.0 doing away with prepared and total spontaneous casting all together. This Hybrid system keeps to it roots but bring it to next logical stage in spell casting system with out going totally destroying the flavor or getting in to spell points.
edit(Change you change the name of this class if you do this, right now it sound like people trying to over throw a organize government. lol Maybe Mage, Magi, or something cooler.)
Magic barbarian, You mean a witch doctor or shaman? I the words magic and barbarian don't ever go together in my mind. Maybe it is because I have with the barbarian class as whole and don't see need for it. Because Rage ability and barbarian don't go together in my book. Rage is a berserker trait, Which have always been a type of fighters. Barbs are simple and primitive weapon wielding savages and hunters scared of magic. Again it is just another type of fighter. But witch doctor could easily be alchemist archetype, and Shaman a druid or cleric archetype.
Non-Paladin divine melee (Warpriest)? you mean a cleric that worships deity of war, and has war domain. or Crusader(could easily just be a paladin archetype that gets rid of alignment restriction like the martials monk did for them. That is everyone problem with the Paladin in the Alignment restriction. If it was not there no one would even be asking for this type of class at all.) Some people mention making this class like a magus. That is a great idea , but that could easily be an archetype for a magus, that changes spell casting from arcane to divine. there no need for this one at all.
Have you ever wanted to ditch the animal and magic of Ranger in favor of pure combat efficiency (Slayer)? yes it is called a fighter
Would you like to use your fists without the steadfast discipline of the Monk (Brawler)? yes it called martial artist archetype or the fighter brawler archetype
What about the other way around and adding more animal-centric abilities to really make a non-Summoner pet class (Hunter)? yes but it should be called as other suggested called something else other than a hunter, best master sounds good, but then again easily archetype for ranger or druid. Rangers already fill the role of hunters/wilderness combatants.
Wanna play a Gunslinger but the DM won't allow firearms (Swasbuckler)? would love to but I have not gotten to this class yet to judge it. but while every one really wants a Swashbucklers I think the Theme of one just does not work in the game play style of pathfinder past level 8 or 9. Someone wrote a really good thread about this and how not a single d20 game system has been able to do them justice. It basically talked about how swashbucklers that we all enjoy only ever really fight other human and swashbucklers. So the action goes back and forth back and forth and use their environment as well as their sword for combat. That why they are so entertaining. That just not work if the game does not play like a movie. and no d20 game plays like a movie there all about doing damage and doing it fast or ending combat via magic ect. the swashbuckler theme just gets lost in this system and loses it flair.
Dislike the massive support focus and versatility of the Bard and/or would prefer to be a bit better in combat (Skald)? I still need look to at this one.
Want to get in touch with the spirits or play an interesting new caster (Shaman)? as I said this could easily be an archetype for a druid or cleric.
and the Arcanist may lack flavor but as I said in previous pot, the spell casting system for that class is the Gem, and should be used for all future casting class. You get the best of both worlds and it is really new and refreshing. I can say I don't care for the name of the class it just sounds funny, maybe go old school and Just call them Mages. They could make archetypes Black(arcane damaging spells only), Red(gets witch spell list or bard), White(gets cleric/ oracle spell list).(hope square soft don't sue lol)
I am going to agree with Roberta here. I think a lot of people where hoping for this. The Magus has been brought up a lot of times as the ideal hybrid class. It basically replaced the Elrich Knight. I feel all PrC need to be done away with by either turn into a archtype, or a hybrid class like this.
While I do think Paizo is stepping in the right direction with hybrid class and doing away with multi class characters and PrC. Someone mention that Paizo was trying to be multi-class friendly by getting rid of the xp penalty from 3.x. So they did not see the point of hybrid classes. I don’t see that as true. I see it this way Paizo has been trying to do this from the start. By changing the way favored class work, by giving favored class bonus for sticking to that single class and by beefing up single class powers, Archetypes further advanced this idea of going to a non-multi-class system.
I think the problem with the some of these people are seeing as others stated role are already filled or easily done in an archetype and a feat that already exist or newly created feat could fix. I am also see that the ability or even the name does match the description of the class they are hybrid from.
Also it seems some of the combinations are just are not working well. This because they are derived from two class that are already weak to start or they are the combination class that are to similar are already. Some are derived from class that have been hybrid class for a long time.
Hunter is a good example of this it is spawn of ranger and druid, but the ranger itself is a hybrid class of fighter and druid, I don’t get the point of adding druid to into it again? But somehow it seems more like an inquisitor druid mix. That not a bad thing it just not fit what it being called or named. When I hear the word hunter I automatically think of a Ranger. It has favored enemies, terrains it excels in, it is a tracker and has a pet animal, a spell list similar to the druid list already, Combat weapons choices(expanded more with APG). The Ranger in of itself is already the perfect hybrid class. It took years and multiple gaming systems and rule sets to get there but as it is perfect in that is own thing. Archetypes just added to it, for those that want a stronger pet or to alter the concept a some more. So the hunter class is redundant of concept that already exist.
I think the Arcanist should have been the original wizard when the game moved from 2nd to 3.x I never felt need of the Sorcerer or Wizard class as they are today. When I play arcane caster I always play Sorcerer because I hate preparing spell, it kind annoying. I even preferred to play the favored soul class in 3.5 over cleric for the same reason. I think the Arcanist will become the new go to arcane caster after it is polished up and has the potential to become as new face of arcane casting, Maybe for even future game design and spell casting system (expect it will called wizard class in the future.) There is a diamond in that hidden in that class.
Don't give it at level 1 give it at later levels may be an extra one at level 5,10,15,20. Which is good bonus for people who want to play strait fighter, or a character vested in the class. As to what Matthew says will be a problem people will just dip into the class to pick up a quick two feats. you could make it even more interesting by maybe having that extra bonus feat ignore all pre requs. or it does not have to be a combat feat. this could allow for fighter to make up for lack of skill by taking skill focus in something, or some other feat. you have to play with it and find a balance.
There is no level up training system in pathfinder. Feel free to create your own. There is retraining system listed in ultimate campaign book. for players that want to swap feats, and other option for off time activities such as earning money, earning XP to catch up with rest of the party, if one of the players is behind from missing a few sessions ect. Generally you level up when you have enough xp to level no cost.
Most common xp is giving out at end of a session. Some GMs do it after every encounter, some do it at the end of chapter in story. Spending money to level went the way of the dodo in 2ed Ad&d it was option rule same in 3.0. It is not used is because it effect wealth of character. Wealth in 3.x and pathfinder is directly related to character power. See expected per wealth by level guide lines. It influences the entire game so when you charge to money to level up you are actually weakening the characters.
If the character are not of level for the next part of AP, you can just level them if you so choose or add side events that happen in-between that down time, such as the character took up guarding a shipment of supplies, and give them a few encounters where that shipment gets attack and they can earn missing XP.
I have just started to look over the packet but just notice this one thing right off the bat, This class is going to cause confusion just because it's name is the exact same as the Fighter archetype. When GM ask a player what class he levels up as or what his character is going to be. and the player says Brawler, and the gm is going to setup some stuff for a class in his adventure, not realizing it was the archetype the player was talking about.
I don't have any clue what to name this class but It is going to cause confusion on these board and games just because of that.
Hell that how I found out about the play test I saw it on the board and my friend playing a brawler(archetype)and was thinking it was a discussion about that. It may have some pointers or idea for his character.
this limitation maybe just for play test to do 2 things.
Does the bite benefit from Weapon Finesse? yes all natural attack
Does the bite suffer the -2 penalty from TWF as well as the -5 penalty for becoming a secondary attack? (edit you have to look at few stat blocks to confirm in the monster book) I was wrong on this one you do not take the peanlty on the natural attacks
Does the bite attack benefit from the Weapon training bonuses the Brawler gets from the 'close' weapon group? Can't get much closer than a bite...? No there is a natural weapon group and that is where bite falls under. It was added in ultimate combat.
Does the bite benefit from the Brawling armor quality? no it says under brawling that natural attacks do not benfit from this property.
Does the bite benefit from the Agile amulet quality? yes if you can finess with it.
Does the bite benefit from Focus/Specialization/Improved Critical: Unarmed Strike? If a head butt or a knee is considered an unarmed strike, wouldn't a bite be? You have to take each of these with seprate of unarmmed strike. knee, headbutt, is all fluffy to discribe an unarmed strike. It could even be butt slap or pinky flick. It actual has no bearing on attacks and type, you could discribe your unarrmed attack as a bite, but it is not the same as the natural attack bite. natural attack bite is a just that a natural attack from a natural weapon. This is why you get to add it at -5 in a full attack.
yes, but it is not recommend to add more than one template. as the CR is skewed. You have to reevaluate the monster, hp, ac, possible damage and see what the new cr is. It is recommend that you build a monster from scratch if you are going to add more than one. But if you are in a rush, you can.
the Relevance is that increase and decrease of ability score depends on play style.
All the PRD is tell you that it is a penalty and it healed over time. thus it is temporary. But penalty applied to the ability score may reduce the the mod of that score depending on the score number. It says that because the PRD was written before the recent FAQ. It has not been adjust to reflect the Devs change on the matter of temporary ability adjustments.
It is unlikely that that adjust will ever make into print of the book due to spacing as stated in the FAQ, also PRD As rebuild option take to much time as not all players going to have time to do that. It is also to keep constant for society play.
PRD again "Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability."
This is identical to raw considering temporary bonus in the PRD
"Some spells and abilities increase your ability scores. Ability score increases with a duration of 1 day or less give only temporary bonuses. For every two points of increase to a single ability, apply a +1 bonus to the skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability."
The FAQ states there are two options one for fast play is every -2 or +2 temporary adjustment next you +1 or -1 to all skill, ect. in this case hp from con. This is the recommend method for quick play and Society play(PRD). meaning the wizard would not lose any hp yet and not until he nets total -2 penalty to con.
or you can use rebuild options which Lazarx Stated in the faq, and is what most software uses and that new faq states you can use. that the -1 penalty or +1 bonus adjust the score per what number it is as base. Thus in this case the -1 to wizard con set the ability is temporary score of 9, thus losing the mod is now changed from 0 to -1, thus netting lose of one hp per hit dice. (This is more likely in homes as they will be using software for speedier rebuild) So both are correct. IT depends on style of play the GM wants to use and what system.
if it is a Society game you stick by strict PRD and use quick rules. home-brew game you pick.
"Temporary Ability Score Increases vs. Permanent Ability Score Increases: Why do temporary bonuses only apply to some things?
Temporary ability bonuses should apply to anything relating to that ability score, just as permanent ability score bonuses do. The section in the glossary was very tight on space and it was not possible to list every single ability score-related game effect that an ability score bones would affect.
The purpose of the temporary ability score ruling is to make it so you don't have to rebuild your character every time you get a bull's strength or similar spell; it just summarizes the most common game effects relative to that ability score." From the recent FAQ
Both methods are correct. the method where you use -2 to ability score -1 to stats is using the quick build system (just like quick template in the monster books), It makes it easy to keep track off and apply this way. made to speed things up. It less acculturate and maybe more beneficial to players in some areas and less in others. (example two handed weapon fighting is less effect with quick adjustment.) That is actual what brought up the recent FAQ because some one noticed that the Icon Barbarian stat block was using rebuild rules not quick rules. Same for other two handed weapon encounters. (the only reason any one notice was everyone was complaining about bastard sword/exotic weapon rules.)
LazarX method is also correct also as it is rebuild method(just like rebuild rules in monster template). It more paper work as you have to know who has odd and even ability scores and time to calculate. But is completely accurate math, and that takes time. not recommend for in game play.
But For some running their character off hero labs or a virtual table top like d20 pro this rebuild is and almost instant effect faster then quick build option. In these programs it auto adjust anything that goes with said score. when effect is applied for the most accurate math.
It not as bad as you might think especially if you have a DM that is really strict with encumbrance. It becomes common for several members of the party to have a bag of holding or portable hole are 2. Also AS others stated wind walk allows more then one person to change in to a cloud. Even with one person and that person can be seen in cloud form 80% chance of being mistaken for a cloud. I don't think there is a single creature in the game or encounter that would have the ability to catch up to you. Wind walk has you move at 600ft. per round.
The last chapter in 2nd darkness AP actually suggest uses this method to reach the first encounter. You start in a city and have to travel over 900 Miles or something following the path in a ancient journal of some pathfinder to a land deep way past that of the Darklands. In 15 hours I don't think there are a lot of clouds down that way. so It safe to say you travel so fast nothing can keep up with you. My group used this tactic before the last chapter because the cleric had it as domain spell and used it to travel on the chapter before. that how they found out about the spell.
when you got a group of 6 +1 cohort some people going in the bag, I think trust should be a non-issues after this group of people saved your butt from lava pits, drow warlords, false murder accusations, Very big green dragons, and inter dimensional shadow pock plane of the world ending. getting in a bag for 5 to 8 mins seems rather easy thing to do lol.
for number 3 it has 10 mins worth of air per portiable hole. same for bags of holding, so every 8 mins you land let eveyone out stretch their legs and get back in. My group did this last game I DM, they used wind walk to get the job done since you go at 60 miles per hour. covering 600 miles is 10 hour trip, give or take an extra hour and half for stops frequant stops. Perfectly do able at level 11. in which you get the spell. It is a lot faster then walking.
because PC's want loot from those those encounters from walking across land also, Those encounters are designed to make sure the pc's are of the correct level to take on said BBEG. Pc's may not want to waste funds on portable hole, or they don't have a druid in the party ect.
They are written with a base level that any character can preform that is why. what if the entire party is made of fighter, Ranger, bard and Paladin, not a lot of flight in that party, so how would they get there. they walk. that is why they are written that way.
I stick with strait Myrmidrach you are only missing 3 bab but you end up with 4th level spells at 12. Ranged spell strike looks good at level 11 with mutli target spells. I am normal a melee kind of player, but if i was a caster even half caster like Magus, I would never multi class even into prestige class for a few levels. Since the spell casting is not to important. If I were multi class into fighter as it is going to stack with Myrmidarch as far as your non casting go, you have more feats which you can use to improved your archery further or other things same bab, bigger boost in fort save and hp increase.
That works provided your not in the middle of a dungon and you don't before hand. That is my problem with the PrC no retraning FAQ is that alone. The character has to level with the rest of the group when they have enough xp then he has to pick eveything that goes with that level. There is no stop I am can't level until I retrain feat x for feat y so I can get the PrC at level Z. But it is what it is. So you are screwd and can't take your PrC to level 10.
why do you want arcane archer anyway. Most people I know that wanted it was so they can get the imbue arrow bit. That stoped being worth in pathfinder becasuse all you need is a +5 bow and arrows go through all DR. there is no need for holy or any of the other mods. If you find arrows with the ablitys good if not your not at some big loss. you still out damage just about everyone.
there only a few spell are actually useful with imbue arrow because most battle maps are not big enough to need the range you can use the bow for.
Seeker Arrow is negate by Seeking weapon ablity and improved precise shot. and you are still allowed to full attack with these.
Phase arrows the only good one and that still is limited use kind of thing
Hail of Arrows while good it one a day use really make it not that great it limited to 10 targets. which is not that bad, but it is only one shot at 10 different targets, you are much better off taking hasted, rapid many shots at choice targets taking 2 or 3 of those target or that big bad nasty spell caster in the back out in a round.
Arrow of death, bad because unless you are cha based caster the dc is going to be low and easy to make by the time you get the ablity.
Ok you are going to run into problems at the later levels unless you are giving the characters a lot of xp for RP and gold. AP is written for 4 characters at medium growth. Having six pcs level 1-5 they are going to seem over power and not have a lot of issues. But after that since the xp and treasure is being split 6 ways instead of 4 starts to take a hit but is still playable come level 10 the characters are going to be 1 to 2 levels behind where they should be in the ap maybe more because wealth per character also took a hit. TPK odds increased heavily. By level 13+ the characters will be 3 levels behind and significant less wealth and every encounter will almost tpk, you will have higher numbers of characters deaths leading to more wealth loss, ect. It just snowballs from that point. Then to save you AP you are just giving levels and wealth out. I did a complete conversion of 2nd darkness AP. With my group not that long ago 6 person group, I had to edit it heavily. One of the quick fixes you can do, is move pcs to fast progress, this is perfect for AP with 5 players you may have to add extra gold or 1 or 2 extra minions to a fight but not a lot of editing. When you add that 6 player you have to edit heavily, meaning extra in counters about 5 to 10 each chapter in the AP and fast progression.
My guys end 2nd darkness at the correct level, this was including giving xp for encounter they avoided completely, running at fast progression, adding 10 extra encounters from wandering monsters (or in my case I did a sub quest or jobs in which I add 8 to 10 encounters per chapter ) adding 2 to 4 extra minor minion per encounter. This keeps the challenge up but not impossible.
So the best solution for you would be what troll said event based leveling, but you still have to increased treasure found by about 25%-50% and 2 to 4 extra minions per encounter. This will keep a balanced challange. As I said earlier level they will seem over power and breeze through the encounter but later it will take an effect.
The robe only increases your sorcerer's bloodline level, it does not give any other benefits.
It does grant access to powers early in the final line in ultimate equipment books say "the wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 levels higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects." Now there a bit of debate on if it even fuctions with Eldritch Heritage feat, because the middle line which seems like fluffy txt says when a "Sorcerer dons the robe the stiching pulls itself appart and rewaves to match the Sorcerers bloodline".
So people think it does not work with the feat as it called out Sorcerer class. One thing everyone agrees on it does not grant early access to bloodlines powers for non sorcerer because Eldritch heritage feat says that the feat does not grant access to any other powers.
you have to take improved eldritch heritage to get the next power ect.
sounds like mythic eldritch heritage give access to all powers includeing capstone, as time goes on, but at -2 levels lower. with the 1st at full level. So no need but improved or greater eldritch heritage. but what happens if you do improved does that then fuction at full level for improved powers. Greater already gives you full level power but no access to cap stone.
is a Hell Knight Commanders Discern Lies spell like ability acquired at level 2 arcane or divine?
The FAQ does not list witch or any of the other classes, Just the core as guide lines "sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger"
So since a witch is arcane and cast like a wizard does it fall there or does it fall under the divine.
I was curious because I was thinking of taking arcane strike as my one of my 18th to 20th level feats.