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Genie

Kain Darkwind's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 1,561 posts. 3 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist.


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|dvh| wrote:
Kain Darkwind wrote:
|dvh| wrote:
Kain Darkwind wrote:
|dvh| wrote:
I was replying to you. Please don't tell us what or how we discuss ethics.

I think pointing out your ignorance and making the connection that those woefully unequipped to understand the situation have no business making authoritative statements about it is quite fair.

Just as coming up with a reasonable counterpoint would be on your part. Pleading for exemption from the debate while insisting that you get to continue it seems unethical though. Ironically so.

And I disagree on all your points.
Luckily for me, that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without such.
Likewise.

That's not lucky for you at all, actually, since you are the one with the position that a police officer requesting that people consider their own ignorance about the situation and similar such withhold judgement until they are no longer ignorant is some how a breach of etiquette in a debate upon ethics. You are literally of the position that you wish to dismiss that which is asserted with evidence, while asserting your own ignorant opinions and observations as somehow superior.


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|dvh| wrote:
Kain Darkwind wrote:
|dvh| wrote:
I was replying to you. Please don't tell us what or how we discuss ethics.

I think pointing out your ignorance and making the connection that those woefully unequipped to understand the situation have no business making authoritative statements about it is quite fair.

Just as coming up with a reasonable counterpoint would be on your part. Pleading for exemption from the debate while insisting that you get to continue it seems unethical though. Ironically so.

And I disagree on all your points.

Luckily for me, that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without such.


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|dvh| wrote:
I was replying to you. Please don't tell us what or how we discuss ethics.

I think pointing out your ignorance and making the connection that those woefully unequipped to understand the situation have no business making authoritative statements about it is quite fair.

Just as coming up with a reasonable counterpoint would be on your part. Pleading for exemption from the debate while insisting that you get to continue it seems unethical though. Ironically so.


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At least four, Taker of Eyes, the ghoul from Monster Codex, the graveknight from Undead Unleashed, and the vampire from AP 48.

I'm guessing a few more. If you wanted to include ones from the game's myth, many of the deathknights of Oerth are, and Soth.

But go ahead and answer the question in reverse. How many double dipping NPCs are there? Who even have builds close to the jury rigged ones that are designed to take advantage?


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
If NPCs are messed up... have you SEEN npcs? Animals from the npc codex got an extra attack because someone reaaaally didn't read multi attack in on the differences between 3.5 and pathfinder, some of the pregens have feats they don't qualify for, numbers don't add up...

This is a pretty good strawman, but ultimately still composed of a hay bale.

See, mistakes in NPCs are inconsistent. It happens, human error creeps in. But not all 1st level investigators have weapon focus. Not all druids have too many high level feats.

That is not the case for the undead antipaladins. Every time, they have been done in the same manner. Consistent. In accordance with the rules.


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And even if we discount a third party AP, it also directly contradicts every single undead anti-paladin build that Paizo has done to date.


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yellowdingo wrote:
Grand Magus wrote:

.

It's actually a nice day to go stand in line for a while. (We have "early voting" in my state.)

"On Tuesday, November 4, 2014, the U.S. Midterm Election will be held
for all 435 members of the United States House of Representatives and 33 of the 100 members of the United States Senate."

.

Why bother. You should be representing yourself.

Yes, all 300 million of us. Good idea.

Alternate response, "He is. By voting."


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Coriat wrote:


Concluding that our aiming-for-vampirism antipaladin in Way of the Wicked would eventually use base+cha+divine grace once he becomes undead, pretty much mirroring his living use of base+con+divine grace, does not require going deep under the hood of anything.

The rules are written largely for (and occasionally by) living, breathing creatures with bilateral symmetry, 4 limbs, a head, and opposable thumbs. The further away from that assumption you get, the wonkier the rules are going to become. That there's no speed bumps in between dragonstyle and a vampire paladin is a pretty good track record for a rules clarification. Most other clarifications have reacted wonkily with far more.

Bodak antipaladin 8 from undead revisited. Fort +23. Charisma 24.

+7 Cha modifier +3 racial HD base, +6 class base +7 unholy resilience = +23

Vampire antipaladin 17 from Pathfinder 48. Fort +24. Charisma 20.
+5 Cha modifier, +10 class base +5 unholy resilience, cloak of resistance +4 = +24.

I'd say that the obvious answer is that no matter what convolutions one does via this FAQ and bonus stacking to arrive at a different answer, undead antipaladins have been adding their Charisma bonus twice due to the lack of a Constitution modifier.

My suggestion is that if a bonus replaces a typical bonus (ie Weapon Finesse attack rolls, undead Fort saves, etc) and encounters a bonus that is intended to stack with the old bonus (ie Weapon Focus attack rolls, Unholy resilience Fort saves, etc), the stacking still occurs.

Because it is quite obvious that real stats have been doing it this way for awhile now.


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Major_Blackhart wrote:
Love it all to death. Just a little disappointed no examples of those ultra paragon trogdolytes we hear about.

Me too! I had thought that the enlightened Xulgath were the top of the ziggurat for trogs, and then to find there were even more potent ones? Wow!


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Devil Army Stats:

Platoon of Erinyes (XP 4,800)
LE Medium army of Erinyes
hp 44; ACR 8
DV 32; OM +12; ranged
Tactics dirty fighters, sniper support, spellbreaker, taunt
Resources magic weapons
Special darkvision, fear, flight, grab, immune (fire, poison), significant defense (electricity, good), spell resistance, spellcasting (4th), teleportation
Speed 2; Consumption 6
Commander erinyes, Cha +6, Leadership 15, Morale +6; Boons - hit and run

Platoon of Osyluth (XP 6,400)
LE Medium army of Osyluth
hp 49; ACR 9
DV 33; OM +13
Tactics cautious combat, defensive wall, dirty fighters, expert flankers
Special darkvision, fear, flight, immune (fire, poison), invisibility, poison, significant defense (electricity, good, silver), spell resistance, spellcasting (4th), teleportation
Speed 2; Consumption 4
Commander osyluth, Cha +5, Leadership 16, Morale +5; Boons - flexible tactics

Platoon of Hamatula (XP 12,800)
LE Medium army of Osyluth
hp 60; ACR 11
DV 35; OM +15; ranged
Tactics dirty fighters, expert flankers, false retreat, relentless brutality, spellbreaker
Special bleed, darkvision, fear, grab, immune (fire, poison), significant defense (electricity, good), spell resistance, spellcasting (4th), teleportation
Speed 2; Consumption 5
Commander hamatula, Cha +5, Leadership 17, Morale +5; Boons - merciless

Squad of Pit Fiends (XP 38,400)
LE Diminutive army of pit fiends
hp 77; ACR 14
DV 43; OM +23; ranged
Tactics cautious combat, dirty fighters, false retreat, full defense, relentless brutality, sniper support, spellbreaker
Special darkvision, disease, fear, flight, grab, immune (fire, poison), poison, regen 5, significant defense (electricity, good, silver), spell resistance, spellcasting (9th), teleportation
Speed 4; Consumption 7
Commander Pit Fiend, Cha +8, Leadership 28, Morale +8; Boons - merciless

Platoon of Pit Fiends (XP 307,200)
LE Medium army of pit fiends
hp 110; ACR 20
DV 49; OM +29; ranged
Tactics cautious combat, defensive wall, dirty fighters, expert flankers, false retreat, full defense, relentless brutality, sniper support, spellbreaker, taunt
Special darkvision, disease, fear, flight, grab, immune (fire, poison), poison, regen 5, significant defense (electricity, good, silver), spell resistance, spellcasting (9th), teleportation
Speed 4; Consumption 10
Commander Pit Fiend General, Cha +10, Leadership 30, Morale +10; Boons - merciless

Company of Pit Fiends (XP 2,457,600)
LE Gargantuan army of pit fiends
hp 143; ACR 26
DV 55; OM +35; ranged
Tactics all
Special darkvision, disease, fear, flight, grab, immune (fire, poison), poison, regen 5, significant defense (electricity, good, silver), spell resistance, spellcasting (9th), teleportation
Speed 4; Consumption 13
Commander Morax, Cha +10, Leadership 44, Morale +10; Boons - loyalty

Platoon of Barbazu (XP 1,600)
LE Medium army of barbazu
hp 27; ACR 5
DV 25; OM +5
Tactics full defense, relentless brutality
Special bleed, darkvision, grab, immune (fire, poison), significant defense, spell resistance, teleportation
Speed 4; Consumption 2
Commander hamatula, Cha +4, Leadership 16, Morale +4; Boons - merciless

Platoon of Narzugon (XP 3,200)
LE Medium army of narzugon
hp 38; ACR 7
DV 32; OM +15; ranged
Tactics calvary experts, full defense, relentless brutality
Resources improved armor, improved weapons, mounts
Special darkvision, fear, flight, immune (fire, poison), powerful charge, significant defense, spell resistance, spellcasting, trample
Speed 6; Consumption 5
Commander erinyes, Cha +5, Leadership 14, Morale +5; Boons - sharpshooter

Host of Narzugon (XP 51,200)
LE Colossal army of narzugon
hp 82; ACR 15
DV 42; OM +23; ranged
Tactics calvary experts, full defense, relentless brutality
Resources improved armor, improved weapons, mounts
Special darkvision, fear, flight, immune (fire, poison), powerful charge, significant defense, spell resistance, spellcasting, trample
Speed 6; Consumption 7
Commander Narzugon cavalier 10, Cha +4, Soldier 10 ranks, Leadership 21, Morale +6; Boons - Defensive Tactics, Flexible Tactics, Hit and Run

Expendable Lemure Mass (XP 400)
LE Medium army of lemures
hp 5; ACR 1
DV 21; OM +1
Tactics standard only
Special darkvision, immune (fire, mind-affecting, poison), mindless, significant defense (electricity, good, silver)
Speed 1; Consumption 0
Commander merregon, Cha +0, Leadership 3, Morale +0; Boons - merciless

Expendable Lemure Horde (XP 1600)
LE Huge army of lemures
hp 27; ACR 5
DV 25; OM +5
Tactics standard only
Special darkvision, immune (fire, mind-affecting, poison), mindless, significant defense (electricity, good, silver)
Speed 1; Consumption 2
Commander merregon, Cha +0, Leadership 3, Morale +0; Boons - merciless

[size=120]Expendable Lemure Wave (XP 6,400)[/size]
LE Colossal army of lemures
hp 49; ACR 9
DV 29; OM +9
Tactics standard only
Special darkvision, immune (fire, mind-affecting, poison), mindless, significant defense (electricity, good, silver)
Speed 1; Consumption 4
Commander merregon, Cha +0, Leadership 3, Morale +0; Boons - merciless

Unique Devil Armies:
The Infernal Charge (XP 102,400)
LE Medium army of narzugon cavalier 10
hp 93; ACR 17
DV 46; OM +26; ranged
Tactics calvary experts, defensive wall, dirty tactics, expert flankers, false retreat, full defense, relentless brutality, siegebreaker, sniper support
Resources magic armor, magic weapons, powerful mounts
Special challenge, darkvision, fear, flight, immune (fire, poison), order, powerful charge, significant defense (electricity, good, silver), spell resistance, spellcasting, tactician, trample
Speed 6; Consumption 12
Commander Natara, Cha +7, Soldier 25 ranks, Leadership 32, Morale +12; Boons - Bloodied but Unbroken, Defensive Tactics, Flexible Tactics, Hit and Run, Loyalty, Merciless

Dark Flight Special Forces (XP 76,800)
LE Medium army of cornugons
hp 88; ACR 16
DV 43; OM +23; ranged
Resources magic weapons
Tactics full defense, relentless brutality
Special bleed, darkvision, fear, flight, immune (fire, poison), regeneration 5, significant defense (electricity, good, silver), spell resistance, spellcasting, stun, teleportation
Speed 3; Consumption 10
Commander Ruthegax, Cha +9, Soldier 30 ranks, Leadership 39, Morale +15; Boons - Bloodied but Unbroken, Defensive Tactics, Flexible Tactics, Hold the Line, Hit and Run, Loyalty, Merciless

The Dark Eight (XP 614,400)
LE Diminutive army of advanced pit fiends
hp 220; ACR 22
DV 54; OM +34; ranged
Tactics all
Resources artifact armor, artifact weapons
Special create spawn (undead), darkvision, disease, fear, flight, grab, immune (fire, poison), invisibility, poison, regen 10, significant defense (electricity, epic, good and silver), sneak attack, spell resistance, spellcasting (9th), teleportation, weapon specialization
Speed 4; Consumption 17
Commander Dagos, Cha +9, Soldier 30 ranks, Leadership 39, Morale +15; Boons - bloodied but unbroken, defensive tactics, flexible tactics, hit and run, loyalty, merciless, sharpshooter

Units tend to follow the organization set down in Gates of Hell by Dicefreaks. Thus,a squad is 9 devils (diminutive), a platoon is 81 devils (medium) and a company is 729 (gargantuan). The army blocks are designed for mass combats, although some of the higher level ones are downright apocalyptic. I suppose that's appropriate, if 700 pit fiends show up and start blowing things up, it might as well be the end of your world. Most likely though, mass combats using diabolical armies will use Medium sized or smaller armies, so that's what I focused on.


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Erik Mona wrote:

I just looked through the whole book.

There are two druids with alignments listed as CE, a troglodyte on page 215 and a troll on page 229.

Both should be listed as NE.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Two trogs, one on page 217. (He's multiclass, which is why you probably missed him.)

Thanks, those must have been the ones I was remembering (didn't have the book when I posted). One, and I figured it was a mistake, but two and three, I was thinking there might be a pattern or some material I missed making it legit.

By the way, I absolutely love the book and its organization. I would buy another even if it had exactly the same monster races featured. (You'd have to switch things up to get me to buy MC3 though)

Also, I've said it before, but thanks for not following the 3e route of never using new classes and material beyond the sourcebook they appear in. Seeing alchemists, witches, samurai, magi and oracles integrated into the monstrous societies was solid. In fact, of the non-ACG classes, the only ones I didn't see featured was gunslinger, ninja, summoner and inquisitor. And it seems I was wrong about the gunslinger, since I just glanced over the ratfolk and saw one sneak in there.


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I noticed a lot of non-neutral druids in the books. Troglodytes and vampires especially. Maybe some trolls too.

Is there anything that allows this by the rules? (Obviously, I don't care if there's not, I'm just curious if something was said about it.)


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Muad'Dib wrote:

When a company uses the term "Diversity" that is code for reaching out to new markets.

The comic book industry has for 60+ years has catered to the young white male demographic. During this time white males made up for almost all of the industry and they understandably write best about what they know.

Why should any company be complacent with such a small demographic when you can reach out to Women, Men and people of all races and cultures?? They are in the business of selling comics, makes sense trying to open up your product to as many people as possible.

The term Token is totally disrespectful. I wish we could retire it.

-MD

The concept token is totally disrespectful. I wish we could eliminate it.

A poorly written character sucks, whether he's black, white, an alien, or a she. That's into other shes.

A well written character is great, again, whether they have any or none of the above qualities.

A well selling, well written character is the best, because they stick around forever.

When Superman died and four imposters took over, maybe some of you remember one of them was a black man named John Henry. Care to guess which one my half-black best friend liked the most? If you said Cyborg, because he was the baddestass, you'd be correct. Meanwhile, I (white Jew) hated John Henry's art (Man of Steel had a terrible artist back then), but loved the character. Went on to collect his short lived solo series. He was great, like a black Iron Man (no, not War Machine), smart, physically powerful, and endorsed by Superman himself. Didn't save his comic, and these days, I don't even know if Steel is around.

Well written is great, regardless of diversity level. But you need sales, or it goes away.


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That's one point to take away from it. But why are martials limited solely to hit point damage, while mages can attack multiple venues?

I personally like magic to cost something, for effects beyond a 'magic blast' or 'magic shield'. Most settings have these mechanics, and since 3e, DnD has not.


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Negative levels is a great example of the asymmetrical nature of magic vs martial combat.

A creature that has been reduced in hit points, but not brought below 0 fights exactly as fiercely (barring self preservation instinct) as one at full hit points.

A creature that has been inflicted negative levels has missing max hp, takes a penalty to everything he does, including attacking and saving against other attack forms.

If you inflict hit point damage, you do not help anyone who is trying to bring the creature down in any way other than hit point damage.

If you inflict negative levels, you help every single member of your team trying to bring the victim down, whether they are using hit point damage, more negative levels, save or dies, save or incapacitates, etc.


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1. Do you recognize these guys?

AK:

AK (CR 17)
Male half elf ninja 10/brawler (snakebite) 10/trickster 1
NE Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init
+13; Senses Low light; Perception +25
Languages Common, Dwarven, Elven, Goblin, Halfling, Orc
_____________________________________________________________

AC 41, touch 34, flat-footed 41, combat 44
(+7 armor, +5 Cha, +5 deflection, +9 Dex, +5 dodge)
hp 257 (10d8 + 10d10 + 100 + 17); miss chance 20%
Immune sleep
Defense freedom of movement, hard to kill, improved uncanny dodge, indomitable
Fort +20, Ref +28, Will +15 (+17 vs enchantment); Iron Will
_____________________________________________________________

Speed 40 ft.
Melee Unarmed strike +31/+31/+26/+26/+21/+21/+16 (2d6 + 14 plus 5 bleed)
Ranged Hand crossbow +31/+26/+21/+16 (1d4 + 7 plus poison /19-20)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +17; Combat +26
Atk Options combat expertise (-5, +5), deadly aim (-5, +15), rapid shot, sneak attack +10d6 (10 bleed)
Special Actions fleet charge, knockout (2/day, DC 26), mythic (14/day), relentless (8/day), snake feint, surge (10/day, 1d6), surprise strike
_____________________________________________________________
Ki pool (12 ki points)
Agile stance (+20 ft.) - 1 point
Offensive stance (Additional attack) - 1 point
Shadow stance (+4 Stealth) – 1 point
Greater invisibility (15 rounds) – 1 point

Ninja Talents (ninja level 15th)
Constant - light armor training 3, stealthy
At will – assassinate (DC 22), bleeding attack, opportunist, sneak attack of opportunity
Ki - invisible blade, vanishing trick
_____________________________________________________________
SQ brawler's strike (magic, cold iron, silver, evil), canny defense, close weapon mastery, dexterous, light steps, no trace +5
Abilities Str 16, Dex 28, Con 20, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 20
Feats Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Multiclass, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot
Mythic Feats Deadly Aim
Skills Acrobatics +32, Athletics +26, Bluff +28, Craft (shipmaking) +27, Disable Device +20, Disguise +28, Escape Artist +32, Intimidate +28, Knowledge (local) +27, Perception +27, Sense Motive +20, Sleight of Hand +32, Stealth +39, Use Magic Device +20; Racial +2 Perception
Possessions +5 nimble shot repeating hand crossbow, +1 human-bane bolts (x20), cold iron bolts (x10), silver bolts (x10), adamantine bolts (x10), +5 leather armor, +5 amulet of wounding fists, cloak of minor displacement, ring of mind shielding, ring of defense +5, monk's belt, bag of holding type IV, SS tattoo
_____________________________________________________________

Relentless As a full round action, A can convert all of his hit point damage into nonlethal damage.

Snake Feint A can select two adjacent squares to count as his square to determine whether or not he is flanking. He can move and feint as a single move action.

GS:
GS (CR 17)
Male human cleric (apostle of the pale) 20/hierophant 1
NE Medium humanoid (human)
Init
+10; Senses Perception +29
Languages Abyssal, Common, Elven, Infernal
_____________________________________________________________

AC 38, touch 22, flat-footed 31, combat 46
(+11 armor, +5 deflection, +6 Dex, +1 dodge, +5 shield)
hp 277 (20d8 + 140 + 17)
Defense freedom of movement, hard to kill
Fort +22, Ref +18, Will +25; Lightning Reflexes
_____________________________________________________________

Speed 30 ft., climb 20 ft.
Melee Rapier +30/+25/+20 (1d6 + 7 plus 5 bleed and poison /15-20/x2)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +15; Combat +24
Atk Options sneak attack +10d6
Special Actions assassinate (DC 29), mythic (14/day), surge (10/day, 1d6), true death (DC 30)
Combat Gear scroll of heal (x3), wand of greater magic weapon (CL 20th, 24 charges)
_____________________________________________________________
Cleric Spells Prepared (Caster level 20th, concentration +33; Domain Death)
9th (5+1/day) - energy drain, gate, implosion (DC 28), polar midnight (DC 28), soul bind (DC 30)
8th (5+1/day) – discern location, fire storm (DC 27), greater spell immunity, orb of the void (DC 29), symbol of insanity (DC 27)
7th (5+1/day) – blasphemy (DC 26) x2, repulsion (DC 26), symbol of stunning (DC 26), symbol of weakness (DC 28)
6th (5+1/day) – animate objects, banishment (DC 25), greater dispel magic, harm (DC 27), word of recall
5th (6+1/day) – fickle winds, life bubble, righteous might, symbol of sleep (DC 24), symbol of striking, true seeing
4th (6+1/day) – communal protection from energy, divine power, rest eternal, sending, spiritual ally, unholy blight (DC 23)
3rd (6+1/day) – bestow curse (DC 24), blood biography, deeper darkness, invisibility purge, protection from energy x2
2nd (6+1/day) – align weapon, bear's endurance, darkness, resist energy, silence, undetectable alignment
1st (7+1/day) – comprehend languages, curse water, endure elements, murderous command (DC 20) x3, protection from good
0 (at will) – bleed, create water, detect magic, detect poison, guidance, purify food and drink, spark
_____________________________________________________________
Abilities Str 15, Dex 22, Con 22, Int 16, Wis 28, Cha 17
Feats Combat Casting, Dodge, Greater Spell Focus (necromancy), Improved Critical (rapier), Improved Initiative, Insightful Strike, Lightning Reflexes, Spell Focus (necromancy), Still Spell, Weapon Focus (rapier)
Mythic Feats Silent Spell
Skills Bluff +16, Craft (poison) +26, Disguise +16, Knowledge (religion) +16, Perception +29, Profession (apothecary) +32, Sense Motive +22, Spellcraft +26, Stealth +44
Possessions SS tattoo, +5 greater shadow mithril breastplate, +5 mithril rapier of puncturing, +4 cloak of resistance, +5 ring of protection, ring of water walking, ring of sustenance, +4 buckler, greater slippers of spider climbing, necklace of prayer beads (healing), rope of entanglement, robe of powerlessness
_____________________________________________________________

AA:
AA (CR 18)
Female halfling slayer 20/trickster 2
NE Small humanoid (halfling)
Init
+17; Senses See in darkness; Perception +25
Languages Aquan, Baklunish, Common, Dwarven, Elven, Flan, Fruz, Giant, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc, Rhopan, Sylvan, Undercommon
_____________________________________________________________

AC 41, touch 36, flat-footed 29, combat 49
(+8 armor, +5 deflection, +12 Dex, +5 natural, +1 size)
hp 320 (20d10 + 120 + 40)
Defense freedom of movement, hard to kill
Fort +24, Ref +30, Will +14 (+16 vs fear); Iron Will
_____________________________________________________________

Speed 60 ft.
Melee 2 kukris +37/+32/+27/+22 (1d3 + 20 /15-20/x3)
Melee 2 power attacking kukri vs humans +33/+28/+23/+18 (1d3 + 34 plus 2d6 /15-20/x3)
Ranged Kukri +37/+32/+27/+22 (1d3 + 20 /15-20/x3)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +20; Combat +31
Atk Options master slayer (DC 24), power attack (-6, +12), sneak attack +6d6, studied target +5
Special Actions fleet charge, improved quarry, mythic (15/day), slayer's advance (2/day), surge (10/day, 1d6),
_____________________________________________________________
Slayer Talents (slayer level 20th)
Constant - darksight, dexterous, poison use, ranger combat (two weapon), stealthy
At will – assassinate (DC 22)
6/day - another day, defensive roll, redirect attack, rogue's luck (+10)

_____________________________________________________________
SQ amazing initiative, impossible speed, limitless range, stalker, swift tracker, track
Abilities Str 16, Dex 34, Con 22, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 24
Feats Combat Reflexes, Double Slice, Greater Weapon Focus (kukri), Greater Weapon Specialization (kukri), Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (kukri), Weapon Specialization (kukri)
Mythic Feats Improved Critical (kukri)
Skills Acrobatics +37, Athletics +28, Bluff +30, Diplomacy +17, Disable Device +9, Disguise +30, Linguistics +14, Knowledge (local) +27, Perception +25, Profession (bookkeeper) +13, Sense Motive +8, Sleight of Hand +22, Stealth +45, Survival +13, Use Magic Device +27; Racial +2 Acrobatics, +2 Athletics, +2 Perception
Possessions SS tattoo, +4 human bane kukri of throwing and returning, +4 human bane kukri of vampiric touch, +8 bracers of armor, +5 ring of ultimate defense
_____________________________________________________________

Quarry A can as a free action denote one target within her line of sight as her quarry. Whenever she is following the tracks of her quarry, she can take 20 on her Survival skill checks while moving at normal speed, without penalty. In addition, she gains a +4 insight bonus on attack rolls made against her quarry, and all critical threats against her quarry are automatically confirmed. She can have no more than one quarry at a time, and the target must be selected as a studied target. She can dismiss this effect at any time as a free action, but she cannot select a new quarry target for 24 hours. If she sees proof that her quarry is dead, she can select a new quarry target after 10 minutes.

Studied Target As a swift or move action, A can study up to five targets, gaining a +5 bonus on attacks, damage, DCs, as well as Bluff, Disguise, Intimidate, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, Stealth and Survival checks against that opponent.

2. What is your favorite type of demon that wasn't in Demons Revisited?


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Between Cauldron and Sasserine, Paizo got me all kinds of excited for a little corner of Oerth that no one cared about before.


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It is not that the gunslinger is overpowered. It is that it does not make sense for a gun to ignore all armor and natural armor, regardless of its value. You could have a planet sized turtle with natural armor +20000 and the most basic of basic pistols still ignores it. That's...not how guns actually work. And they never have.

Cyrad, how have you found your house rules to work?


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I'm strongly considering switching the touch AC portion of the firearms rules to target flatfooted ACs instead. I loathe the idea of bullets punching through all armor or natural armor, no matter how strong.

I'm curious about if anyone else has done this in their games, and the results, especially to gunslinger PCs.


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Alignment discussions always seem to forget to distinguish between a character's actions and a character's alignment. Using a tiny snapshot of a character's actions to determine alignment is always going to run into problems.

I'm also always surprised at the level of goodness people want to put onto neutral. It seems people are fairly black and white when it comes to alignment, at least in their gut.

A LN guy who orders the execution of bandits operating in his territory is hardly evil material. And while ordering your love and her soldiers on a suicide mission to get rid of them does fall under evil, it seems like people are willing to condemn him (and those who followed the orders) just for wiping out the bandits. Because they were hungry? LN doesn't care if you were hungry. There aren't 'mitigating circumstances' unless those are built into the law itself. Just like a kolyraut (sp?) doesn't care if the contract you broke was unfair.

I also don't think that he's ethically neutral. He clearly is looking for a legal way to extricate himself from this situation, and that's lawful, which gels with what we've seen overall from him. Given the immediate resort to ruthless and lethal methods, I'm going to say LE(LN) Nothing we've seen suggests a NE.


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She's not really the type for a Devils Revisted title, anymore than the Malebranche, Dukes of Hell, or archdevils would be. (Should not be taken as an indication I would not love to see them.)

The Revisted line tends to favor normal base creatures, and provide unique examples of them.


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This has been a heart wrencher thus far, Steph. Nicely done.

Also, I really like the character designs, Dion! Fantastic!


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bookrat wrote:


You're going to lose more than an hour. :) It's one of the better webcomics out there. I've been following GG for almost a decade now.

Two other good ones out there: Dominic Deegan: Oracle For Hire (This is is fantasy based, kinda like pathfinder; sadly, the story came to an end, but it is a complete story) and Sluggy Freelance (modern story, lots of puns).

...you fiend.


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Shadowdweller wrote:
Of course dragons wear armor. They just don't like full plate because knights.

My G-D. I'd never seen that before...and I just lost an hour of my time. I'm not at the end either. And I've yet to read anything before the one you linked to.

I'm not sure if I should bless or curse you.


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You can also disintegrate the door or break it down, Leesus. The door as an obstacle isn't the important part of the scenario. I'm specifically trying to figure out whether or not greater teleport can specify 'other side of door' as a valid location.


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My party is coming down a hallway in a strange building. They come to a locked door which they cannot open. They judge the door to be of high, but not abnormal thickness, say one foot thick.

Because they have not seen the other side of the door and do not know what lies there, they cannot use teleport or greater teleport to bypass it, which require a 'reliable description'. They can however, use dimension door to do so, by specifying a direction and range.

Is this correct?


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Alternately, possibly the little dot down the road from Balentyne is the city of Aldencross. Not having read the adventure (because I'm playing through it and like to be surprised), I can't say for sure what direction or distance it mentions the fort being from the city, but I do know that the longest tunnel in use today is 80 some miles long, and the longest tunnel in use for non-water is about half of that. It seems shocking that an escape tunnel would be anything approaching either of those lengths.


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Found this while looking futilely for a thread to ask Wes about how Paizo determines which devils get full bestiary status. (Was wondering why the magaav made it, and the gaav didn't, while the levaloch, ayngavhuals and salikotals have been entirely left out.) Is it because they didn't feel compelling, or what? AP #26 was a long time ago for an outsider to linger.

I love the idea of a devils revisited book, BUT...I would actually not like it to be a direct mirror of Demons Revisited. By that, I mean the classic devils are awesome, and I would love seeing more on them, but the new PF devils seem to be largely ignored, with a few exceptions. Other than the statblock where they appear, deimaviggas, puragaus, advodaza...these guys aren't even mentioned in the hierarchy of Hell bit in Princes of Darkness. (I know, some of them didn't exist then) I feel the entire B-lineup of devils is begging to be explored in greater detail. Malebranche, for instance, are sort of begging to be mythic rank cornugons.

I love devils. I co-authored Gates of Hell because I love them so much. I'd just also love to see more than our classic Bestiary 1 devils get some additional treatment.


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I'm going to go ahead and say, no, the developers of the game did not intend for the position that it is good aligned to torture the non innocent to be valid and not wrong. If they call me out and say otherwise, I'll cheerfully admit I was wrong and wipe the egg off my face.


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the secret fire wrote:
Coriat wrote:
the secret fire wrote:
There is really very, very little resembling a D&D Bard in any actual mythology or even in "early" modern fantasy fiction (by that, I mean starting with the 1800's novels which sort of opened the genre and going through writers like Tolkien, Lewis and Le Guin).
Nope, no bardic nonsense in any of those authors, no sir.
What part about "very, very little" is unclear to you? It does not equal zero. Considering how many...cough...wonderful...cough...elven "songs" pop up in Tolkien's writing, it's not at all surprising that one of his many Elven characters is described once as singing in combat. That doesn't make it any more than an obscure sideshow in his oeuvre.

Oh, I was going to argue, but then you made the point yourself. You not caring for the rich and storied history of fantasy being interwoven with bardic music and lore doesn't actually equate to it not existing.


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Scavion wrote:
Coriat wrote:
Scavion wrote:

Theodur for what it's worth, I think your inquisitor is still in the green.

He knows the bad guy is evil. He lacks evidence for a conviction so he gets the bad guy to confess through torture. That's clearly against the law but I don't believe it goes against the end goal of "Putting evil behind bars." I'd sign up for team Chaotic Good or even Neutral Good.

I have to sincerely disagree.

Torture - hurting and oppressing.

Front and center in the basic Pathfinder definition of evil.

Alignment, Good Vs Evil wrote:
Good Characters and Creatures protect innocent life.
Im afraid your definition differs from the text.

Well, fear not, because I found that you just don't know how to look things up.

Evil wrote:
Evil implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others.
Coriat wrote:
Torture - hurting and oppressing.
Webster wrote:

Torture - the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

to afflict with severe pain of body or mind


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LOL I was going to suggest brawler when I read this OP. Nicely done, Mechapoet.


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I mean, we haven't parsed out precisely whether

-beating someone with your fists.
-pulling someone's teeth out with pliers.
-keeping someone awake and in an uncomfortable cell for a few days
-keeping someone awake and in an uncomfortable cell for a few years
-threatening to kill someone's loved ones
-actually killing someone's loved ones
-lying to someone and making them believe you've killed their loved ones.
-starvation
-the rack
-rape
-flensing
-throwing a spitball at someone's face every day for four years
-tying someone up with a rope and holding them very close to a lethal source of damage
-waterboarding

Etc, are torture, if used for interrogation.


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Rysky wrote:
Weirdo wrote:
@Mikaze - Sorry, I think most of us were too busy trying to explain that "torture is evil even if you're pretty sure the victim is guilty/evil" that we missed out on "rape is evil even when it's a horribly contrived situation designed to give your character permission to rape."
No such thing. Ever.

Between the rapist and the victim, obviously not, since that is what distinguishes the crime from consensual sex.

Between the rapist and other institutions he holds in authority, it (permission to rape) can exist. For instance, laws that decriminalize it, or a slave owner, etc. As Obi-wan Kenobi said, "it was true, from a certain point of view"

Blackbloodtroll wrote:
Are we noting a difference between physical, and psychological torture?

I don't think people have gotten into what actually constitutes torture. Just that torture is evil.


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Theodor Snuddletusk wrote:

LazarX;

Raw that is true. But the way my group play and how i feel the game should be played, there are always exeptions based on setting or circumstances.

If the witch has cast a spell that if she is a virgin (live or dead) at 00.00 than the demon prince nesguch is summoned onto the mortal plane. Than you cant kill her or reson with her.

One of the ways that can be solved is for the good alligned charracter to make sure she no longer is a virgin. Forcefully so.
Evil act no. Kind or cuddle, no. But not evil.

"Lawful Good is the best alignment you can be because if you are really sure about it, raping a witch is perfectly permissible."

Are you even hearing yourself anymore? First off, reasoning with her sounds like a fuggin' GREAT idea, since you can't kill her. Undoing the ritual. Getting her to willingly give up her virginity in remorse. Or if all else fails, getting humanity ready to fight the demon prince Nesguch. But raping her not evil? Absolutely evil. And frankly, you're going to have to make a better case than you have that it is even the lesser of two evils.


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Theodor Snuddletusk wrote:

The problem with torture in Pathfinder is that while in this world you have your law and order, even in the smallest redneck town. And there is always some way to make things right.

In pathfinder there often is no way.

If the lord of the land is an evil greedy bastard, and he has enough money to give him the power of law, than it is not so easy to get the proof needed to make him drop.

And than who is to take him down, and even further what will stop his friends of not killing your good-aligned ass with law in hand?

This is where torture can (in the eyes of my inquisitor) be used. When proof is good, when you know he is evil, when there are none other than yourself to stand up for the weak and wounded.

Than you get the lord of the land, find the paper with all the accusations you have, and the proof you have gathered, and make him sign it. Because in court there will be no justice, if you just turn your back the weak will still be broken by the man. But with a signed paper in hand, and the proof to back up your claims, than even the highest, most powerful landlord can be sentenced to death.

If all that it takes is for one man to torture the final signature out of him, to ensure the safety of the land, to ensure the power of unbribed law, than it is needed.

"Lawful Good is the best alignment because it combined honor with compassion. Also if someone gets in your way and they are wrong, you can torture or beat them until they give into your demands."


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"What is going to happen in the future" is probably not a question torture reveals a true answer to, I think most of us would agree. Not sure what more merit that 'counterpoint' has, Lazarx.


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Nerf (New Material)
Forged from foam in some fell laboratory, this ultrasoft material immediately detracts from the quality of a weapon or suit of armor. Weapons fashioned from nerf deal no damage except on a critical hit. A critical hit deals normal damage, but nonlethal. Armor made from nerf grants its wearer a -4 penalty on Diplomacy checks and provides no armor bonus. Nerf is so costly that weapons and armor made from it increase the DC to convince parents to purchase it by 10 ; the cost is included in the prices given below. Ammo made from nerf can be reused multiple times, but locating a piece of ammo after firing it requires a Perception check DC 35 and 1 hour of effort per 10x10 square.

Weapons and armor normally made of steel that are made of nerf have one-tenth their normal hit points. Nerf has 1 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness -1.


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You are mixing up in order to nerf houses with ordering nerf houses.


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Abraham spalding wrote:

You cannot give consent while drunk.

Consent must be obtained or the act is forced.

Drunk has a legal definition. Consent has a legal definition, and you cannot consent while drunk. If you do not have consent then the act is not willing.

This is a basic point everyone needs to get into their heads.

Does this mean that you didn't do something that put you in the situation? No. But that doesn't excuse the other persons behavior either.

If I leave my house open and you take something from it you have still robbed me. I made it easy but you are still a robber.

Consequently if I get drunk I cannot give consent. If I do not give consent and you do it anyways you are a rapist.

My idiocy does not give you the right to my possessions.

I'm with Marcus here. If I walk up and see you on the street, and your 'idiocy' is causing you to give away your material possessions, and I take one in good faith, not realizing you are an idiot, I am definitely not a thief. If I walk up and realize your idiocy and take advantage of that, I'm a predatory scumbag, but it is debatable whether or not I am an actual thief.

It seriously trivializes rape to suggest that two people who meet up at a bar and go home to have enjoyable and consensual (in the actual definition of the word, not simply the legal context) sex have raped each other, or one has raped the other. It certainly seems less dubious than someone who lies about their true attitudes towards the relationship, or someone who lies about their own accomplishments in order to make a relationship seem more attractive, and neither of the latter situations are considered rape.


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Abraham spalding wrote:
Drock11 wrote:

I'm of the opinion that charm spells and similar things don't become de facto cheap domination effects just because a charisma check is made. It's a very badly worded vague portion of the spell and that part of it should never have been added into it if for no other reason than the confusion and arguments it can create.

In that it is the same as boozing someone up. In the world in which I operate if you booze someone up then sleep with them it is rape, if you use charm person to sleep with them then it is rape.

At least with the booze they could have not drank.

Making the argument that boozing someone up and sleeping with them the same as rape either false, or changing the definition of rape to lose the meaning that invests it with the emotional context its connotations imply.

Voluntarily impairing your judgement does not render your judgements null and void.


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*Will* Will get you killed. Verifying false information could always get you killed. And for the evil overlord, an expendable minion is no meaningful cost.

I'd say that provides the fairly large subset of areas which caused me to rate it at 5, personally. I think everyone knows 24 is bunk. But the pendulum swinging all the way left isn't that accurate either.


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Ok, that explains things a bit better, DMW, and I'll read your posts in the future under that understanding. So to summarize your position...

Torture is great for hurting people, making them afraid, making others around them afraid, and for ultimately breaking them into shards of the human (or elf/orc/dwarf) being they used to be. Of these qualities, making others afraid is probably the only useful one to interrogation.

Torture is of minor use in interrogating someone, because it eliminates more effective and efficient methods, produces unreliable info, and is only slightly more revealing than doing nothing at all or just asking a question.

Torture is evil. There are interrogation techniques that are mean and of dubious ethical quality that are not torture.

That solid?


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*Looks at OP.*

Huh. I guess I really did drunk dial Paizo MB last night. Awkward.


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So if I build a modest three story house, with four 10x10 ft. rooms per floor, divided by regular old masonry walls...

twelve 10x10 sections per floor, times three floors. Four more for a floor times four to make three floors and a roof, equals 16 plus the 36 before. 52.

Plus a front door and a back door, and doors to the four bedrooms on the second floor, and a door to the attic/third floor. Seven doors.

4,750 hit points. Hardness 8 for most of it.

We need to nerf houses.


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Deadmanwalking, I think most of us agree torture is evil.

And I think most of us agree that it is not the most effective means to get reliable information.

I think the disconnect is here. If torture were rated in effectiveness for procuring information, on a scale of 1 to 10, what score would you give it?

24 would give it a 10. Most of us disagree.

You, from what I gather of your posts, would give it a 0, ranking it below 'doing nothing at all' and 'actively helping the individual lie to you.'

Most of us disagree. I'm inclined to rate it a 4-5, myself.


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I would never count on a party to do anything, especially one I didn't know.

Do your players like skill challenges? Turn the trap into one. If they don't, I think him just wrapped in chain and locked is simple enough, my conjurer used her dimensional steps to take him out of it without messing around with locks and such.

(Warning: there is some R rated language, and possible triggers for those sensitive to such here. The demons were not painted as anything less than absolutely vile.) If you are curious about the cast of characters, head over here, a simple search for any of the names, including Olangru, will turn up their page.

The Scene:

<DM> Dark Creatures of the Isle Theme

This huge chamber is watched over by five hideous statues. To the east and west stand four towering demonic ape statues in alcoves, facing a roaring fire pit in the room's center. On the opposite side of the room is an even larger stone statue. Possessing the stout, stylized body of an ape, this twelve foot tall statue has two stone tentacles where each of its arms should be. Sprouting from its shoulders are two fanged baboon heads. The statue lords over the room atop a great dais, staring out in frozen rage.

Urol dangles 40 feet above the floor of the room, above a giant fire pit, suspended by chains that connect to a winch on the east wall of the room, ten feet above the floor. He whimpers and cries for help. "You came, yes...yes? Not a trick, no...no?" His voice is painful and he has been stripped of his clothing and a great deal of his flesh as well.

<Heinrick> "We're here, Urol."

<Katrina> "Keep away from the pit, if you get close it'll scorch you." Katrina whispers to the others.

<DM> Within the room stands a massive ape, hefting a huge bone club, flanked by two smaller apes. Near the dais, Olangru stands, hefting Tnuc by her throat.

<Olangru> "You have failed me for the last time, B&*$#. Did my lesson to Oonta go unheeded?" He looks up casually as the heroes enter the room. "Redeem yourself, Oonta. Kill them. Or die trying."

<Tnuc> "I'm Tnuc!" she screams in rage.

<Tainthorn> Taint advances on the closest ape with his magically enhanced speed, bringing his blade down on it.

<Olangru> "B$&%@, you are who I say you are," he says, cuffing her across the face.

<Tainthorn> Tainthorn's blade practically disembowels the ape he cuts into.

<Heinrick> Heinrick pulls a bottle from his backpack and drinks it as he steps forward.

<Olangru> Olangru grins and vanishes from sight.

<Heldin> The dwarf steps forward, and casts his final spell, imbuing Heinrick with Moradin's resilience.

<Katrina> Katrina calls on her celestial apes, burning one of her most potent spells to do so. They attack the closest demon apes.

<DM> The fiendish apes scream in fury but are torn apart by their celestial counterparts. Both fall in a spray of black unholy blood. Which splashes on Heinrick. Missing Tainthorn, even.

<Tnuc> Tnuc springs towards the fray screaming in an unholy tongue. Another bar-lgura tears its way through a hole in reality, leaping upon Tainthorn.

<New Bar-lgura> "Die at the six fingered hands of the bar-lgura, mortals!"

<Heinrick> "No."

<Bar-lgura> Its claws tear through Tainthorn's armor, drawing dark blood to the wound. (11 damage)

<Korak> "Korak kill." The massive ape demon shuffles towards one of Kat's apes, and swings its massive club against its skull. (38 damage) The ape vanishes from this plane.

<Tainthorn> Tainthorn unleashes a flurry of attacks at the new Bar-lgura

<DM> His flurry is largely useless, although he does catch the new arrival in the chest with his horns, seemingly by accident. Blood flies from her wound.

<Heinrick> Heinrick tucks and rolls under the guard of the new bar-lgura, slashing it as he comes up.

<DM> He skips past her by the skin of his teeth. His blade slows as it passes through her body, once again catching on the supernatural resistance of the demon without Heldin's spell to bolster it. Still, ichor and gore do splatter his body with the blow.

<Urol> Urol screams as he begins to lower slowly towards the flames, the winch suddenly coming free.

<Heinrick> Displaying courage if not prudence, Heldin rushes the summoned demon, bashing it with his hammer.

<DM> His blow is dodged by the demon.

<Katrina> Katrina dimension steps above Urol, trying to catch herself on the chains holding him.

<DM> She deftly catches herself on them.

<Katrina> The apes move in to pound the summoned demon.

<DM> The first ape, its hands full of holy power, tears out the heart of the summoned bar-lgura. The demon's skeleton tears itself free of its flesh, takes three steps and then crumbles to dust.

<Katrina> The second ape moves to stand beside Heinrick, watching his right against the invisible demon still lurking.

<Tnuc> Tnuc leaps across the fiery pit, lashing at Heinrick and the apes flanking him. Her claws scrape without effect against Heinrick's armor, but she catches one ape (ape 2 - 12 damage) in the throat and bites at the other, sinking her teeth into its shoulder. (5 damage)

<Korak> Korak looks up at Kat and Urol on the chain as if measuring whether he can hit them. Thinking the better of it, he moves to bring his bone weapon down against one of the celestial apes, roaring his rage. (33 damage)

<Tainthorn> Tainthorn steps over the fallen demon ape and attacks the giant before him.

<DM> His sword tears into the gigantic beast, cutting it from its stomach to its collar bone, yet it remains defiant and roars furiously at the hollow.

<Tainthorn> He smiles at it, "I've seen worse at the breakfast table." He cocks his head at Heinrick, "Course they were eating souls."

<Heinrick> "Little too much information, pal," Heinrick says with surprising casualness, as he steps up and joins the other in carving the giant ape. His massive sword strikes out with impossible speed...

<Korak> Korak has no time to even scream before Heinrick's blade cleaves him from this world. His ruined corpse crumples to the ground, heaving up gouts of blood. All over Heinrick.

<Heinrick> "Gods, I'm going to need a bath after this trip."

<Urol> Urol's chain continues moving closer to the fire, and he screams as his feet begin to burn. (3 fire damage, plus he has caught on fire)

<Heinrick> "Kat, get him out of there!"

<Bar-lgura> A summoned bar lgura appears behind Heldin, tearing into the dwarven cleric. Her claws send blood spraying. (19 damage)

<Heldin> "Aagh, ya bastard!" He replies in traditional dwarven fashion; a hammer to the face.

<DM> The hammer barely fazes the creature, as it bats aside one blow and laughs at the impact of another. It s&$!s where it stands, scratching its arse and sniffing its fingers.

<Katrina> Katrina grabs ahold of Urol and dimensional steps them both out from above the flames in a single motion, setting him down in the corner and drawing her blade to advance on the Bar-lgura fighting Heldin. "Hey ugly." The calls to it as she approaches. The last remaining celestial ape lays into Tnuc, channeling holy power.

<DM> The ape's first blow crosses Tnuc's eyes, but she catches its other fist in her claw, crushing its hand, forcing it slowly to its knees. (21 damage) Its fangs snap futilely at its tormentor.

<Tainthorn> Taint turns on the demon attacking Heldin

<DM> Turns on and flays, his blade sticking similarly to Heinrick's in the demonic body. Her skin peels away and she screams, flinging the defication on her hand at Taint's face. He ducks, the s#&~ splattering on Heinrick's head instead.

<Heinrick> "You and me have some unfinished business, shaggy-b#&~!. This is for yanking me out of the fight," *slash* "this is for dropping me in the hole," *slash* "and this is just for being ugly." *slash*

<DM> Tnuc screams in pain as the blade cuts her left arm off, then her right. She lunges at his face with her fanged maw, before melting into a pool of black tarlike ichor.

<Heinrick> He watches her expire, then shouts, "Hey, Olangru! I was supposed to pass on a message to you."

<DM> Silence greets his challenge...clearly Olangru isn't as willing to compromise his invisibility as Heinrick was.

<Heinrick> "Oonta wanted you to know... she sold you out. She helped us get here by telling us how to get around your dumbass traps. And she's waiting for you back where you pieces of s#++ came from."

"Aw, did I touch a nerve there, big fella?" Heinrick says, in the direction of the eastern side of the chamber. "Don't worry, you'll have a chance to talk it over with her, real soon."

<Bar lgura> The summoned bar lgura leaps at Heldin and Tainthorn, slashing and snapping. Its claws are futile, but its teeth close over Heldin's flank, tearing flesh free. (6 damage)

<DM> A globe of darkness drops over everyone's head.

<Heldin> Heldin, knowing his weapon is useless in this fight, stumbles in the darkness away from his attacker.

<DM> Heldin trips and falls on his face as he tries to manuever in the darkness.

<Katrina> Katrina calls on the celestial realms again to bring forth the least of the Archons. She calls out in celestial and a moment later the darkness is gone.

<Urol> Urol huffs and puffs on his feet, but is unable to put out the flames. He screams in agony.

<Katrina> The ape advances on the last demon visable.

<DM> The ape batters away at the bar-lgura, but to little avail, although it continues defecating with every blow landed, solid or not.

<Heinrick> "Heldin, help Urol!"

<Tainthorn> Taint moves past the remaining demon and tries to help Urol beat out the flames

<DM> He catches a lucky claw in the shoulder as he moves. (7 damage)

<Heinrick> "What, are you scared to come out, Olangru? I guess I should have told Oonta she didn't have anything to worry about, wanting revenge on such a big wuss. Come on, what do you got left to lose? Show me what you're made of!" Heinrick taunts the leader, as he steps over the downed Heldin, and lays into the last of the summoned demons.

<DM> The demon claps her six fingered hands together, catching his blade between them.

<Bar lgura> The bar lagura lashes out at all of those surrounding her. Heinrick's armor holds, but Heldin does not get his shield up in time. (9 damage). The ape has its throat torn out with a savage bite. The demon backs slowly away from those surounding her, snarling.

<Olangru> Then with a flurry of claws Olangru comes into view. Heinrick barely manages to duck the first claw, but catches the second right across his jaw. (34 damage). Heldin likewise takes a mouth full of fangs to the face. (20 damage) "So you like Oonta, do you? I'll rape you like her, see how you like that, big man! I will have my sacrfice!"

<Heinrick> The dwarf cries out in pain, but Heinrick merely grunts as he accepts the blow. "You won't have the chance. I'll send you back to whatever hell you crawled out of, just like I did her."

<Katrina> The archon casts aid on Urol. Katrina moves forward and casts slow on the remaining demons.

<DM> The spell fails against the monsters' resistance to arcana.

<Urol> Urol manages to put out the flames consuming his flesh with Tainthorn's help.

<Tainthorn> Tainthorn darts past Katrina and the demon ape then swings turns and swings at it.

<DM> Both the ape and Tainthorn miss with their attacks.

<Heinrick> Heinrick's crown taken from the gargoyle king begins to glow, as his skin seemingly turns to stone. His arms and blade are surrounded by an aura of destruction as he attacks Olangru.

<Olangru> The demon ape appears to use his forward momentum from having charged Heinrick to roll out of the way of the warrior's attacks, but he catches one firmly across the midsection, causing him to grunt in pain. "A thousand torments await you before the twin maws of my master, Meat!" Olangru leaps up and over Heinrick, kicking off his head to lash a claw at Katrina. "You stole my sacrifice!" (24 damage) He leaps away from the fray, easily dodging any attempt to hit him.

<Katrina> "What are you going to do about it coward? You won't even fight us, you hide behind your mates and invisibility!"

<DM> The cornered bar-lgura tries a similar escape. Her claw cuts into Tainthorn (9 damage) and she leaps away, evading Kat and Tainthorn.

<Heldin> The dwarf priest stands up, and gets his wounded self out of the fray.

<Katrina> Katrina mutters a quick spell and points, bathing both apes in golden dust, "Oops. No more invisibility to hide behind." The archon flys up and fires a beam at the summoned ape.

<DM> The summoned ape screams and claws at her eyes as the dust sparkles in them. Olangru merely snorts, brushing the irritance away.

<Tainthorn> Taint darts around the flame and under the floating archon, crossing the room to swing at the blinded ape

<DM> The archon's beam strikes the ape at the same time as Taint's blade cleaves the air next to its head.

<Heinrick> Heinrick runs around the flames, following the boss demon, and attacks him.

<DM> Once again, the demon ape uses its momentum to roll out of Heinrick's path, although he hardly needs it given Heinrick's poor footing and form with the blow.

<Olangru> "Keep running, Meat. Run, run, run!" Making a rude gesture at Heinrick, Olangru rushes to pounce on Tainthorn. His claws swipe into the fighter, tearing past his armor and shield. (18 damage, 25 damage)

<DM> Again, he easily evades any attempt of Heinrick's to attack him as he flees.

<Katrina> Katrina moves closer to the others and renews their haste while her archon fires two beams.

<DM> The archon catches the demon flat in the side of the head with its light blast, causing the ape to snarl and bat wildly at its attacker.

<Ape> The summoned ape sniffs at Tainthorn and swings wildly, missing the man. She takes a stumbling step backwards.

<Tainthorn> Tainthorn slides closer to the fire and attacks the demon ape leader.

<DM> His initial attack is successful, stabbing Olangru in his stomach, but the ape manages to bat aside all other blows, using his momentum to avoid any solid hits. As usual, the blade is less than optimum against the demon's hide.

<Heinrick> Heinrick follows the fleeing demon-ape, closing the distance and catching him between himself and Tainthorn.

<DM> His weight behind the blow, he misses badly, bringing his face within an inch of Olangru's puckering a+&@~!&&.

<Olangru> Olangru's summoned demon rushes behind Heinrick, similarly flanking the warrior, clawing the thick thewed half elf in the back. (9 damage) Olangru laughs and ducks between both Heinrick and Tainthorn, headed for Katrina. His claws and teeth shred the young wizardess apart, sending flesh and blood into the air. (65 damage) "Olangru will eat your pretty mate, Meat!"

<Heldin> "Get goin, boy. Wait fer us when ye see the big dead snake." Heldin pulls a potion from his pouch and starts cautiously edging towards the fray.

<Urol> The gnome looks towards the dark chambers beyond and stays right where he is, huddling in fear.

<Katrina> The summoned archon floats around Katrina's head pitifully. Under the archon's light Katrina comes to long enough to see the demon in front of her and vanishes, reappearing behind Heldin before falling unconscious again.

<Tainthorn> Tainthorn all but flies across the room to swing at the demon monkey.

<DM> Olangru laughs and ducks under his blade.

<Heinrick> "Kat! You're not eating anybody, you ugly piece of crap!" Heinrick runs around the other side of the pit, slashing Olangru again.
<DM> The heat scalds him as he goes. (2 fire damage) Ignoring the flames, he smashes into Olangru with all of the force of a runaway thunder beast, drawing a grunt of pain from the ape king for the first time in the fight.

<Olangru> "You stupid b!+~+! Get in there and fight!" Olangru screams at his summoned lackey, gesturing towards her even as he runs at her to slap her across the face. Her eyes clear and she charges towards Heinrick, ducking between his knees and springing at Heinrick. She grabs the dwarf, concentrates...and nothing happens.

<Heldin> "What the 'ell?" The surprised dwarf takes a step back away from the demon, and pours his healing potion into Katrina's mouth.

<Katrina> Katrina fires a handful of magic missiles at the demon before her even as she backs up against the wall. The archon floats around Heinrick and fires two beams of light at the demon before its summoner.

<DM> The beams miss. The missiles fade against the demon's spell resistance.

<Tainthorn> Taint charges past the demon to put himself between it and the two most wounded members of the party, swinging at the demon after he comes to a stop.

<Bar-lgura> The summoned demon lashes out as Tainthorn passes, catching him across the flank. (29 damage)

<DM> Tainthorn's blade is as ineffective on the demon's hide as her claws are on his.

<Heinrick> Heinrick continues to harry the chief demon-ape, following and striking again. "Never, ever again."

<DM> Despite his words, the flames burn Heinrick again. (3 fire damage) Heinrick's sword hangs in the air, crawling forward.

Olangru's Fall Theme

<Bar-lgura> Olangru's summoned demon grabs Heldin, this time disappearing and reappearing with the wounded dwarf on the north end of the room.

<DM> Heinrick's sword falls, slowly towards Olangru.

<Olangru> Olangru watches the blade descend, his lifetime of iniquity before him.

<DM> The blade falls....

<Olangru> Olangru remembers nursing at his foul mother's tit, being torn away for service to the master.

<DM> The blade falls.....

<Olangru> His service to the Two Headed One, falling out of favor, fleeing to this cursed jungle.

<DM> The blade falls....

<Olangru> His countless sacrifices under the blood moon, hundreds of hunters taken on the alter.

<DM> The blade falls.....

<Olangru> And this! The sacrifice that would have completed it all! So close!

<DM> The blade falls....

<Olangru> It isn't fair! Not fair!

<DM> The blade falls....

<Olangru> ...and as it strikes the six fingered ape demon, Olangru steps aside and holds forth his ring, sending a blast of force into his foe's face. (9 force damage, bullrushed) Ha! His victory will realized yet!

<DM> Heinrick tumbles backwards into the pit of fire. (15 fire damage)

<Olangru> Olangru lets out a laugh that cuts off, as his upper torso slowly slides off of his lower. A hole opens up in the fabric of the universe, and Olangru barely has time to scream before a pair of six fingered claws reach forth and drag him in. The tear closes with a squishy 'pop', which sounds nothing so much like a body being pressed like a grape. Olangru's ring and bracers clatter to the ground.
<DM> With a scream, Olangru's summoned demon vanishes as well.

<Heinrick> With a grunt of pain at the heat, Heinrick clambers out and away from the pit.

<Tainthorn> Tainthorn carefully helps Katrina to her feet.

<Katrina> She limps into the sacrifical chamber "Is it over?"

<Heinrick> "Everybody still with us?" Heinrick calls to the others.

<DM> Suddenly, a terrible noise fills the chamber....The main statue grinds into angry life. Its tentacles, despite being made of stone, sway and writhe, and its two fanged maws snap and gnash before unleashing a bone-shaking howl. It lurches towards the party with a speed that its stony bulk belies.

Temple of the Two Faced One Image

<Heinrick> "Okay... I'm not usually the one to suggest this, but I think we should run. It can't get out of the naga room, everybody else run. I'll hold it, and be right behind you."

<Heldin> "Bloody 'ell... this thing be the wellspring o' the evil fillin' the valley!"

<Katrina> Katrina inches forward and encases the dwarf, even as he speaks, in a globe of force. The archon bobs around Tainthorn's head before vanishing.

<Tainthorn> Tainthorn moves closer, ignoring the fire, but unwilling to charge into the glitterdust.

<Lemorian Golem> The two headed statue screams again, a blood curddling howl as it moves purposefully towards Heinrick. It makes a single tentacle attack against Heldin, its massive stone limb bouncing off of the sphere.

<Heinrick> "Or not... Guess we do it the hard way after all, then. Let's make this quick, ugly. I've had a long day already." Heinrick steps towards the stone titan, over Olangru's fallen adornments, and strikes at its legs and torso with his adamant blade.

<DM> His blade cuts into the stone creature, drawing a shower of sparks as it leaves a massive score across the creature's thigh.

<Lemorian Golem> Turning its full fury on Heinrick, the creature lashes into the warrior with all four tentacles. The tentacles wrap him up tightly, crushing him. (49 damage, grappled) He can feel their putrid touch trying to eat away at his body.

<Katrina> Katrina enlarges Heinrick to help him fight off the grappling golem.

<Tainthorn> Tainthorn, seeing his friend held in the monster's grasp, charges around the fire towards it.

<DM> His attack clangs nearly uselessly off the golem's thick stone body.

<Lemorian Golem> A tentacle lashes out at Tainthorn, wrapping him up like Heinrick. (16 damage) He feels the terrible rotting in his bones as well, but his enhanced constitution fights through it. However, the tentacles wrap him up as well in their grasp. The demon statue thunders ponderously into the flames towards the room's entrance. (22 fire damage, Taint, 11 fire damage Heinrick)

<Heinrick> Heinrick's magically increased size makes it easy to see that he is grievously wounded.

<DM> The flames lick at the golem as well, the creature is not immune to their heat.

<Heldin> "By Moradin's forge, lads! Save yerselves! Forget about me, go!"

<Heinrick> Heinrick struggles to escape the thing's stony grasp...

<DM> and barely manages to do so!

<Heinrick> He bobs and weaves backwards away from it.

<Heldin> The dwarf can be seen uncorcking a potion, preparing to fight to the death when released.

<Lemorian Golem> The golem lumbers around the flame, holding Tainthorn firmly in its tentacles, always in the fire.

<Heinrick> "Damnit, damnit, damnit! Urol, if you know any way to help, now's the time. If not, run for your life."

<DM> Katrina is overcome by fear as the creature looms in front of her, and screams in her face. The others shudder as the unholy howl comes forth, but their hearts stand firm.

<Katrina> <Katrina> Katrina steps between space and appears away from the golem, visibly shaken, "We're all going to die here..."

<Tainthorn> <Katrina> Tainthorn struggles in the golem's grip.

<DM> Struggles in vain.

<Tainthorn> he struggles some more

<DM> And finally pops free, only to fall into the fire pit.

<Lemorian Golem> The golem's tentacles are quick to lash out to retrieve its prey. Four tentacles pound away on Tainthorn, as the fire rages. (16 fire damage, 14, 13, 10, 12 damage) The demon statue's fithy rot does not manage to take root in his body however.

<DM> His body wilts under the assault, and he slumps to the ground in the firepit.

<Heinrick> "Urol! Get up, and go!"

<Urol> The gnome's eyes fly wide and he bolts as fast as his little legs can carry him.

<Heinrick> Heinrick pulls his last healing potion from his belt and drinks it as he watches the gnome flee.

<Heldin> The dwarf gulps down another healing shot, as well. Then, calling on Moradin for aid, he summons a connection between him and Heinrick, that protects the warrior. "Ay, give 'im whatfor, lad, this ol' dwarf's goin' home!"

<Heinrick> "Heldin... I'm sorry." Heinrick plants himself in the hall, vowing not to waste the dwarf's final gift.

<Lemorian Golem> The golem lashes out at the massive Heinrick as it approaches him, smashing him across the chest with his tentacle. (15 damage)

<Katrina> Katrina fights her fear and pulls out a scroll, quickly working it's magic on Heinrick.

<Heinrick> "Don't worry about me! Get out of here!"

<DM> The half elf vanishes from view. Tainthorn roasts in the fire pit. (21 fire damage)

<Lemorian Golem> The golem moves forward, lashing out at Kat, as its original target has vanished. (16 damage and grappled.) Bumping into Heinrick's invisible form, it lashes out trying to find the warrior as well, one of its tentacles finally driving home. (15 damage)

<Heinrick> Grunting in pain, and refusing to leave without Katrina and Urol gone before him, Heinrick lays into the stone monstrosity with all his might.

<DM> With one last ditch effort, Heinrick sets his massive blade in motion a final time. His friend's body burns in the pit to the north. His companion Kat lies dying in the creature's grasp. Urol is running like the useless frack that he is. Heldin awaits Moradin's welcome into Dwarfhome. The blade flies, enlarged, enhanced and sped by Katrina's magic, guided by Heinrick's fierce spirit and lands across the unholy golem like a divine judgement. The statue comes apart in a blast, crumbling into blocks of granite. An oppressive feeling that no one realized was bearing on their shoulders is lifted, and the foul taste in the air fades.

Victory over the Shrine of the Two Faced One

<Heinrick> "Ho... leeee... s$&*. That was a close one."

<Katrina> Katrina lays on the ground bleeding to punctuate the point.

<Heinrick> He sees Kat not responding, and kneels beside her, trying to staunch the flow.

<DM> His ministrations are successful. She seems safe, for now. Tainthorn's body continues to burn, the flames consuming it entirely.

<Heinrick> He sighs in relief. "Urol! You can stop running, I got it!"

<Urol> The gnome turns around, still naked, bloody and burnt. "H..h...Hero Heinrick? I...is this another trick, no no?"

<Heinrick> After a moment of leaning against the wall, he hoists himself to his feet, and gently carries Katrina back into the room. "Heldin, Taint, we're okay! ...T? Where are you?"

<DM> The smell of burnt flesh reveals Taint's fate.

<Heinrick> "It's not a trick, Urol, I promise. I've got your things here..." He sets down Katrina, and digs the gnome's clothes from his haversack, as he looks around for the husk. He closes his eyes in a grimace as his fate dawns.

<Urol> "L..l..ll..lady Katrina? Will she be ok, yes yes?" Urol pokes her still body, sending a flow of natural energy into her. (9 heal)

<Heinrick> "...you can heal people?"

<Katrina> Katrina stirs slowly, "Urol.... Heinrick?"

<Urol> "Oh me oh my!" Urol seems oblivious to his miracle. "L...lady Kat, you are awake, yes yes!" He exclaims, his naked gnome balls waving in her face.

<Heinrick> "Uh, Urol... here's your clothes back. You should probably put them on. Like, now."

<Katrina> "I take it you got it Heinrick." Katrina fishes with one hand for a hand up.

<Urol> Looking at the blood soaked rags, Urol makes his best attempt to cover himself with them, wincing painfully as the cloth catches in his sores.

<Heinrick> "Yeah, I got it. You okay in there, Heldin?"

<Heldin> The dwarf looks grimly at Heinrick and past him to the firepit. "It shoulda bin me, lad, not 'im."

<Katrina> Katrina finallys finds her feet and enters the demon shrine again.

<Heinrick> "You should have known him before that happened to him... I hope he's found some kind of peace, at least."

<Heldin> "Can a demon find peace, Lad?"

<Katrina> She dismisses the barrier around the dwarf with a weary wave of her hand.

<Heldin> "Th' evil's gone though...ye kilt it wi' th' statue."

<Heinrick> "He wasn't a demon... I don't rightly know what he was, or if there was anything like a soul in him. But a demon wouldn't have helped us, saved you and Skald and Quintal like he did."

<Heldin> "Maybe a demon can change, lad. 'E saved our lives, but...somethin was in him, eatin' 'im up. I hope 'e's found 'is peace, I do."

<Katrina> "At least he found death on his own terms, fighting for what he beleived in."

<Heldin> "No doubt, lass, no doubt. I just hope there's a place for one like 'im that ain't terrible t' go t'."

<Katrina> Katrina eyes the bracers and ring, "We should get out of here, back to the others. I don't want to linger in this place longer then we have to."

<Heinrick> Heinrick carefully skirts the firepit to retrieve the demon's jewelry. "Sounds good to me. Let's get going."

<Katrina> Katrina heads out, stopping only to collect the coins from the chest behind the throne.

<DM> Aside from Olangru's gear, a small crucible stands on the dais.

<Katrina> Katrina heads up to look at the crucible.

<Heinrick> "Heldin, can you tell if it's... evil?"

<Heldin> The dwarf shakes his head. "Looks like it was fer offerings o' some sort, lad."

<Katrina> "I'd rather not leave anything for the prince of demons and his temple." Katrina examines the crucible carefully.

<DM> It contains ashes and charred bits of pulverized bone. In the bottom lies a ring that seems to have been overlooked before the hand wearing it was tossed into the fire.

<Katrina> Katrina fishes out the ring.

<Heinrick> Heinrick looks faintly disgusted, then shrugs, deciding it's no worse than anything else he's seen here.

<Heinrick> "I'll go load up on those coins."

<Katrina> "I'll check it out when we get out of this hell hole." She follows him out, shepherding Urol.

<Heldin> Heldin brings up the rear.

<Urol> The gnome moves slower than normal, the familiar spring missing from his step.

<Katrina> Katrina makes no move to hurry him along, wincing herself as she walks.

<DM> The mirror portal has closed by the time the party gets back there, but a simple touch of the pane of glass reopens the portal from this side. The party makes their way out of the terrible shrine.

Upon exiting the shrine, you see that the fog is vanishing, almost completely burned off. The sound of birds, noticeably absent before, comes from within the jungle.

Avner and Amella are waiting near the entrance to greet them. The carved baboon heads that once formed the entrance seem to be slightly ruined.

<Heinrick> Heinrick leads the way, a pained expression on his face as he carries the heavy chest of gold and silver.

<Amella> "Y' found im!" Amella exclaims

<Katrina> "Yes, we found him."

<Heinrick> Heinrick grunts, and nods.

<Avner> Looking at the wounded state of the group, Avner exclaims, "Put that down, man, take it easy."

<Heinrick> He does, spilling some from the broken front. "Good idea."

<Katrina> "They're dead. The demons. The one's that attacked us earlier and more."

<Heinrick> "We found him. Killed the demons, and a big moving statue. Lost Taint."

<Avner> "Are you sure? What about the apes?"

<Heinrick> "Dead." Heinrick says between exhausted pants.

<Katrina> "All four demon apes from before, two more they summoned up, the giant one they had, dozens of little ones, and the half dozen lesser demonic apes, the Naga..." Katrina rattles them off.

<Avner> Avner nods at Heinrick's confirmation. "Ah...eh...good work, man."

<Amella> Amella shushes Kat. "Time enough fer tha' later, Nav, y' done good n' we know it. Let's get y' back t' camp."

<Katrina> Katrina follows Amella quietly.

<Heinrick> Heinrick picks up the chest again and follows.

<DM> Back at the camp, Skald and Quintal listen silently as they hear the news of Tainthorn's death. Tavey is absolutely wide eyed with wonder at the events, as is Blumpkin. Damri cooks up a meal to celebrate the victory. Only Urol is silent, staring off into the distance and shuddering every so often.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hey, that's great! My divine subtype need not be epic though...it works just as well being applied to a dire lion or an apple tree to make a 'small god'.

Aslan:
Aslan (CR 13)
XP 4,800

Domains Animal, Nobility, Strength
N Large Magical Beast (Divine)
Init +18; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +23
_____________________________________________________________

AC 28, touch 13, flat-footed 26, combat 33 (37 vs. trip)
(+2 deflection, +2 Dex, +15 natural, –1 size)
hp 201 (8d10 + 120)
Resist ability 5, energy drain 5
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +5
_____________________________________________________________

Speed 80 ft.
Melee bite +19 (1d8 + 9 plus grab) and
2 claws +19 (1d6 + 9)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +9; Combat +19 (+20 grapple)
Attack Options mythic power attack (-3, +9), pounce
Special Actions mythic (10/day, 1d12), rake (2 claws +19, 1d6 + 9)
_____________________________________________________________

Abilities Str 29, Dex 19, Con 21, Int 6, Wis 16, Cha 14
Feats Improved Initiative, Run, Skill Focus (Perception)
Mythic Feats Power Attack, Weapon Focus (bite), Weapon Focus (claw)
Skills Acrobatics +23, Perception +23, Stealth +19 (+27 in undergrowth); Racial +4 Acrobatics, +4 Stealth (+8 in undergrowth)
Treasure incidental
_____________________________________________________________
Alter Reality (Su) As a full round action, Aslan can alter reality by spending a use of mythic power. This is similar to a wish or miracle, except that it can duplicate 9th level spell effects or lower from any class. Aslan can only use this ability to produce effects in line with his portfolio. Within his realm, this is a standard action, and the restrictions on what constitutes an effect in line with his portfolio are relaxed within reason.

Divinity Aslan's divine blast deals 10d8 damage. His divine shield can withstand 40 points of damage. Aslan acts on his initiative and his initiative -5. Aslan is considered a rank 10 mythic creature for the purpose of his hit points and any tier based abilities he activates.

Against non-divine threats, Aslan rolls 2d20 and takes the best on all saves. He does not fail on a natural 1. Within 5 miles, Aslan takes no distance penalty on any skill checks. In addition, any distance based penalties are at -1 per 5 miles, not per 10 ft. If slain by a non-divine opponent, Aslan returns to life in his realm immediately. If slain by a divine opponent (or by a non-divine opponent twice in the same day), he returns to life within 24 hours. Only special circumstances can arrange the true death of Aslan.

Roar As a standard action, Aslan can roar. This causes non-mythic creatures to become panicked if they do not succeed on a Will save (DC 21). The range is 100 ft., but if Aslan spends a mythic point, it increases to 5 miles and summons 3d10 advanced dire lions with maximum hit points.

If you take a look at Aslan (a generic small god in the form of a lion, named in honor of and not attempting to be a statblock of the more famous lion of that name), you can see that he's got some staying power, and yet isn't anywhere near epic. He was built using an advanced dire lion, with the divine subtype.

Some people might point out that with access to alter reality, he's under CRed. I disagree, but the ability does require some maturity. Does it potentially allow for mythic wails of the banshee to be dropped on people? Yes. Should it be? Not with this god. Effects in line with his portfolio means just that. Perhaps he blesses someone with exceptional hunting prowess for a few hours, or uses it to veil a pride from approaching firearms bearing hunters. Who knows? The point is that you can write an ability that allows no leeway in interpretation, or you can write one that allows different DMs to handle different deities very uniquely. Given that a prick DM doesn't need a statblock to make life difficult or impossible for players, I don't really see that I need to tailor my work to keep them from abuse.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Can't forget the extra 2d6! :) Thanks.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've got a 20th level cavalier, order of the sword.

Mount strength is 34. Cavalier strength is 26, charisma is 25. +4 axiomatic lance. Spirited Charge. Knight's Challenge.

1d8 + 12 plus 2d6 lawful normally. On a charge, supreme charge = +200%, and spirited charge = +200% for a total of x5. Also add mount's strength to charge.

5d8 + 120 plus 2d6? 7d8 + 168 plus 2d6 on a critical hit?

And with knight's challenge, that 1d8+12 becomes 1d8+39. With the mount's strength, on a charge...

5d8 + 255? And 7d8+357 on a crit?

Just want to make sure I'm doing the math in the proper order.

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