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Venster Arabasti

KBrewer's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 107 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 1 alias.


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Okay, thanks for the tidbit on copycat being divine instead of arcane.

I'm probably not going to put anything about Garuda, because it's not in one of the main books, but one of the splats.

Thanks for the help!


Agh, sorry, forgot about the Knowledge prereqs.

Okay, they would be valid Theurges if they waited one more level and had the appropriate knowledge skills as well.


I realize that everyone is sick and tired of Mystic Theurge threads.

That said, I haven't actually found a guide for the Prestige Class and figured I'd give a shot at writing one. I want to check to make sure I don't have anything wrong.

Here's what I found as ways to "cheat" entry into the class based on the FAQ. Let me know if/where I misunderstand things, or if I'm missing anything you can think of

Classes

Cleric with Trickery Domain. At first level, the copycat ability functions as Mirror Image. This qualifies for the arcane half.

Oracle with Wood Mystery. At first level, the oracle can take the Bend the Grain revelation. This qualifies for the divine half.

Races

Aasimar, Incorruptible Racial Trait. This gives Corruption Resistance as a SLA. This qualifies for the divine half.

Drow. Drow get Darkness as an SLA. This qualifies for the arcane half.

Tengu, Long-Nose Form. 3rd level Tengus can take a feat which gives Alter Self as an SLA. This qualifies for the arcane half.

Tiefling. Tieflings get Darkness as an SLA. This qualifies for the arcane half.

Duergar. Duergar get invisibility as an SLA. This qualifies for the arcane half.

Kitsune. Kitsune get Alter Self as an SLA. This qualifies for the arcane half.

Svirfneblin. Svirneblins get Blur and Blindness/Deafness as SLAs. This qualifies for the arcane half.

Half Elves, Drow Magic. At the cost of Adaptability and Multitalented, Half-Elves get Darkness as an SLA. This qualifies for the arcane half.

------

Okay, so if I'm understanding everything, I see two main 3rd level Mystic Theurges:

Drow/Tiefling/Duergar/Kitsune/Svirfneblin/Half-Elf (with an SLA for the arcane half) with an arcane class (doesn't matter) and Oracle (Wood Mystery - with the first revelation being Bend the Grain)

Aasimar (Incorruptible) Cleric (Trickery) and an Arcane class (doesn't matter)

... am I understanding everything correctly?


Broken Zenith wrote:

Excellent work as always KBrewer. Added.

Comprehensive Guide to the Guides

Thanks!


Mark Hoover - Thanks!

Toascend - Still no luck. I'm still getting "Sorry, the file you have requested does not exist." Is the document marked as public/shared?


toascend wrote:

Excellent read so far!

I have something for the designing encounters part that you might like as well.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KsEUvC5QmvTQFi_zzgYM31VDfHpn6hb7xnBGAhU ed_E/edit

I can't get to the link. Have you made the document public? And is that link the link to the public version of the document? By default, google docs doesn't share files, and you have to be careful not to grab the "editing" version of the url off the address bar.


Okay, back from a hiatus.

I made a new guide (chapter 3 of the GM guide) - but instead of making a third PDF, I combined the three into a single, chaptered version.

Could I make a request? Could you remove my old GM guide link and post a link to the new, compiled version? I've stored it on both Dropbox and Skydrive:

Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oph4prrax7exj53/CompiledGM.pdf

Skydrive: https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=652EA6399D011D3!107&authkey=!AK5G vgq8AwYimSM&ithint=file%2c.pdf

Here's the Discussion Thread: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qe0z?Brewers-GM-Guide-Chapter-Edition


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Here's my compilation GM Guide (with a new, 3rd chapter added.) I've also tried some new formatting and design work.

Please let me know your thoughts and any possible additions or new subjects to cover.

I'm also hosting it in multiple sites because some people (especially those on mobile devices) are having problems with some drop sites.

Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oph4prrax7exj53/CompiledGM.pdf

Skydrive: https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=652EA6399D011D3!107&authkey=!AK5G vgq8AwYimSM&ithint=file%2c.pdf


GM Arkwright wrote:

Undeath is awesome, Servitor is awesome. I understand that. I'm not quite getting what makes the combination of those words with the oracle so amazing.

-Clerics get Undeath (and quicker, too)
-Bards, clerics, druids, rangers, sorcerers, wizards and witches get Servitor

What exactly is it about the Oracle that gives it such great synergy with these words?

What makes it especially nice is that they both synergize extremely well with a martial character with a reach weapon. Yeah, other classes get the same spells. Which of them makes a better martial than an oracle?

I feel that Battle Oracles are better at fighting than their Cleric equivalents. My opinion is that Oracles' biggest drawback is the spontaneous casting of only a few known spells. With Words of Power, that's not a drawback, because there aren't that many words worth knowing anyway. And unlike a Cleric, you won't have to "prepare" your Undeaths and Servitors - you just cast them spontaneously as you need them.

Basically, this guide is an extension of "Brewer's Guide to the Reach Cleric". With Words of Power thrown in, the Oracle becomes the better class to pull it off with.


Broken Zenith wrote:

Updated & Added

Comprehensive Guide to the Guides

I've got another one for the list:

The Guide: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g196mx15afictws/Jargonaut.pdf

The Discussion Board: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pzs0?Brewers-Guide-to-the-Jargonaut


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I've been working on a new guide for another Words of Power class - and is probably the most under-appreciated class in that system.

The Guide: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g196mx15afictws/Jargonaut.pdf

Thoughts, suggestions, and corrections would be most appreciated.


A lot of people kind of miss this, but the DC of a poison is based off the monster's CON score. When you're working with Augment Summoning and a creature with a Poison ability, the DC for that poison goes up by 2.

So... first thing is to check with your GM how long-lasting the CON bonus has to be before it'll apply to the poison. Would a Bear's Endurance work, if you milked the snake/spider/etc before it wore off? Would tacking a Belt of +2 CON do it?

Another (less unique) option would be to tell the GM you're looking for a bigger, nastier version of whatever creature holds the poison you want (and hint to them about the Advanced Simple Template.) That'll give you a +2 to the DC of the poison as well.

Or you could take the simple approach and tell your victim, "Oh, that poison is the nastiest stuff on the planet - it'll calcify your bones and make your muscles rigid until you start bleeding from your nostrils and ears..." - and if you succeed well enough on your intimidate roll, they'll be shaken and take -2 to their saves.


No, no... that's not what I mean.

I'm working on a new game aid - something players who use S.M. a lot can use to help their game.

Tell you what, give me 5-10 minutes, and I'll be sending you a PM. If you want to take a look at it, that'd be great. It's just a rough draft at this point (and it only covers SM-1 and SM-2)


... dotting. I could really use some help with something. Any Summon Monster Experts able to lend a hand?


Could a few people PM me - preferably people with a lot of experience with Summon Monster and are experts with monster stat blocks?

I'm working on a new game aid and would love a few extra sets of eyes to help me beta test.


Ninja in the Rye wrote:
"When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire."

Yeah, and the summoner's Archons would stick around 10 minutes, longer than the 3 minutes Aid would last


They don't stack. Not referencing rules, but just this possibility:

10th level summoner before entering the final boss' chambers, says "I'm using SM5 to summon 1d3+1 Lantern Archons. The 3 of them spend 10 rounds casting Aid on me over and over - 30d8+90 temporary hit points for the next 2-3 minutes. So instead of 74 hp, I've got... (Dice rolls)... 329. Ok! Let's go!"


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MrRed wrote:

Hi Brewer,

thanks you for the guide! Great and fun read! I have thought about writing something similar but failed to dedicate the time to it ;)

Here some quick 'n dirty additions you might consider:

Spells (already mentioned):
Lvl 5 spells and higher are worth it! Their main disadvantage is the requirement for more expensive metamagic rods but they also offer higher DC and damage dice limits.

Three strong choices:
Fire Snake (lvl5)
Wonderful spell. Enhanced by "intense spell" very powerful. Also a prime candidate for spell perfection, as with SP allows for free quickening!

Cone of Cold (lvl 5)
Great spell, IMHO slighlty worse then Fire snake. Please note that you can use liquid ice (alchemical item) to enhance the damage. Together with a 1 lvl sorc dip (CB Orc/ Draconic Silver or White Tatooed) you get d6+3 each CL!

Chain lightning (lvl 6)
Also a great candidate for spell perfection, as you can still use regular metamagic rods. Together with ML you might use spell perfection to enhance chain lightning with quicken spell for free.

Items:
Goblins Fire Drum
Cheap and awesome: Additional 1 point of fire damage per die (up to 10). Get a few ranks in perform (percussion) and hand it to your familiar! Works particular well with a monkey familiar :P

Robe Blazing/ Shocking/ Voidfrost
Quite expensive at 10k but +1 Caster level to your element of choice!

Variants:

The burnificator cleric
"The night is dark and full of terrors" (Song of Ice and Fire)
A fun variant to the blaster wizard is a fire-themed cleric specializing in fireballs. You basically replace the evcocer with a theologican fire Cleric: Better saves, more ac, more hitdice and different spells (except your signature fireball spell).

1 lvl Sorc Dip (Cross-blooded Orc/ Draconic Red or Gold Tatooed) Please note that Mage's Tatoo does work for all evocation spells, not only for arcane spells! This helps to prevent CL loss for the fireball cleric. Also, you can get a fire drum monkey familiar ;)

X Level Theologian...

I'll take a look at the items (the drum in particular seems really cool) - but the advice about higher levels spells doesn't really have anything to do with metamagic rods - it's that you can't easily add metamagic to them at all.

Let me use Cone of Cold as an example, with Spell Specialization and Magical Lineage.

Your wizard just hit level 9 and just now got their 5th level spell slots.:

Cone of Cold: You're basically casting a vanilla spell - you can add one level of metamagic, but Intensify doesn't do anything yet. You're basically working with 12d6 damage out of a 5th level slot.

Fireball: Out of the 5th level slot, you're able to cast Intensified Empowered Fireballs for 18d6 damage. You can also cast Intensified ones for 12d6 out of the 3rd level slot, or Empowered ones for 15d6 out of the 4th level slots.

Your wizard just hit level 11 and just now got their 6th level spell slots.:

Cone of Cold: You can now add Empowered to your spell, greatly increasing the damage. You can do 21d6 out of your 6th level slots, or 14d6 out of your 5th level ones.

Fireball: Out of the 6th level slots, you can cast a Maximized Intensified Fireball for 15x6. Or you can match the 21d6 out of your 5th level slots. Your 4th level slots deal 15d6. You also have the option now of casting Quickened Fireballs.

Your wizard just hit level 13 and just now got their 7th level spell slots.:

Cone of Cold: You've exceeded the damage cap, but when it comes to damage, the best is simply a maximized spell (16x6) out of the 7th level slot. Your 6th level slot deals 22d6, and your 5th level slot deals 16d6.

Fireball: For raw damage, you're in an awkward spot - you can't quite fit Intensified + Empowered + Maximized yet, so the best is only a maximized intensified out of the 6th level slot (15x6) You do, however, have the option of casting Intensified Quickened Fireballs for 15d6.

Your wizard just hit level 15 and just now got their 8th level spell slots. They now also have Spell Perfection:

Cone of Cold: This is actually where Cone of Cold gets a little depressing. You can add Quicken to it... but that's about it. You only have one more level worth of metamagic before you'll exceed the 9th level. So for quickened spells, you're looking at Quickened Intensified for 18d6 (5th level slot). For non-quickened spells, your best bet is Empowered + Maximized, for 15x6 + 7d6 (6th level slot)

Fireball: If you're just out for damage, you can toss out Intensified + Empowered + Quickened Fireballs for 22d6 damage (5th level slot.) For regular ones, if you want raw damage, you can go Intensified + Empowered + Maximized out of your 5th level slot, for 15x6 + 7d6. You also have variants at the 3rd and 4th spell slots that do less damage.

... the short story is: before Spell Perfection, you can apply better metamagic to Fireball, because you have more levels to work with (it's a lot easier to apply Empower to a 3rd level spell than a 5th level one.) After Spell Perfection, you simply don't have many spell levels to work with - whatever metamagic you add, you can only put the spell level up to 9th. Adding Quicken to Cold of Cone doesn't really leave room for any other metamagic. Adding Quicken to Fireball still leaves room for Maximize, or Dazing, or Intensified + Empowered.

Also, you have a lot more slots to work with. If your specialty blast is Cone of Cold, you really can't prepare blast spells in your 4th level slots or lower (well, you can, they just won't do hardly any damage.) If your specialty blast is Fireball (or something else low-level) then you can use your lower-level slots for blasting.

Hope that helps out - there seems to be a lot of confusion on that point within the guide. Maybe I should add a step-by-step on the reasoning for not taking higher-level blasts.


SuperUberGeek wrote:
I have a sort of off Topic question. The block buster guide lead me to your necromancy guide. In regards to the necromancy guide, how do you acquire the spell bucket without having a once a day cast only acquired through taking a lawful neutral or lawful good god? The guide seemed to be written for clerics.

Check out the Items section - you can get the spell on a staff for pretty cheap. Btw, you should probably post questions like that in the discussion for that guide (that way if someone else has the same question, you'll be helping them out.)


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
Cylyria wrote:
If you took the extra traits feat to pick up Lore Seeker and Missionary, and then chose the same 3 spells, would the effects stack?
If you're referring to the Lore Seeker and Missionary from RotRL, you can't take both of them because they are both Campaign Traits and you cannot have two traits from the same category.

It also says (I think in the beginning part of the Trait rules) that Trait bonuses never stack. Two traits that give +2 Initiative don't give you a total of +4


andreww wrote:
KBrewer wrote:
- Fire Snake. Bad spell, a really horrible option in my opinion. You can't hit anything 60+ feet out, you'll have difficulty hitting all your targets, you don't have nearly the flexibility with the Dazing Spell feat, and your damage is generally worse than an optimized fireball. I know Andreww's numbers didn't paint that picture - but that's because he misstated one of the Fireball spell levels, didn't optimize the non-quickened Fireball, and used the highest possible level he could without telling anyone. If anyone wants to run the numbers, here are the optimized spells from both camps:

Actually I was explicit with which metamagic feats I was applying to each spell and the actual spell slot level which ultimately was used. I even acknowledged that it was possible to get more damage from Fireball but you completely ignore the major benefit of Fire Snake and Chain Lightning which is the ability to target enemies far more easily than with Fireball. Fireball is not a bad option for the blast optimiser but it is not the automatic best choice. A guide which is looking at different options shouldn't ignore extremely effective options because its writer is rather blinkered.

On the Sorcerer issue you continually harp on about Fire Immune creatures without noting how easy an issue it is to get around. Sorcerers, especially human ones with the alternate favoured class ability, have more than enough spells known to select a range of single target and area effect spells across all of the different elemental damage types. If you are very paranoid about Fire Immunity then taking Elemental Spell (Cold) is also a very straight forward option.

Okay, at this point I just have to assume, Andreww, that you're not being intellectually honest.

Quote:
"On the Sorcerer issue you continually harp on about Fire Immune creatures without noting how easy an issue it is to get around."

Really? Really?

From the Guide:

Fire With Backup: This cagey half-orc sorcerer can take down Fire Immune foes, because they’ve got the ability to turn any blast into Acid damage – between Draconic (Fire) + Elemental (Acid) bloodlines, an 8th level sorcerer deals either 36 (8d6+12) fire damage or 28 (8d6) Acid damage.

Also from the Guide:

What about the Fire with Backup? Not too shabby… except they actually do less than the Admixture Wizard does – even with their specialty element (fire).

From my previous Post:

...Now, you can say, "You're not being fair! A sorcerer could take the Elemental bloodline and be able to swap that damage out for a different element!"
You're absolutely right. They covered that hole... at the cost of opening up another one: They lost damage by doing that. Before this swap-out, both of their bloodlines was devoted to increasing their damage dice.

Also from my previous post:

That's the crux of it. The only way the Sorcerer outclasses the Wizard at blasting damage is if they select two bloodlines that increase damage... but if they do that, they set themselves up for a hosing when they run into enemies with resistances/immunities to that element.

... but, yep, I definitely haven't noted how easy it is for Sorcerers to take the elemental bloodline. Nope, not a word about it. You got me.

Quote:
I even acknowledged that it was possible to get more damage from Fireball

Really? You said you could add more metamagic to all three, not that Fireball's damage could be vastly increased to the point where Firesnake and it dealt the same amount of damage.

You went through a big numbers comparison and picked a weak version of Fireball and didn't even state the right spell level for it. And here's the difference between us: when I was doing my damage comparison, I was fair to Fire Snake: I found the best damage I could for it (the non-quickened spell should've been Maximized, not Empowered - deals more damage that way.)

Quote:
A guide which is looking at different options shouldn't ignore extremely effective options because its writer is rather blinkered.

Yep. Blinkered. I mentioned I'm adding Chain Lighting when I get a chance - but because I don't agree on Fire Snake, I'm Blinkered.

And Fire Snake is a horrible area-of-effect. You have to be within 60 feet to hit something (aka, "within charge distance".) You also have to be extremely high level to have any chance of hitting even the majority of a large-group encounter - and most of the time, it'll force you to get in even closer to your enemies (you don't have much chance of hitting 6 separate creatures if you're 40 foot away from the closest.

I wouldn't recommend it to any blaster, even a 20th level one. It's got a worse area, and unless you're actually a 20th level caster, it deals less damage. Fireball beats it in almost every circumstance - and the ones where it doesn't, Chain Lightning cleans its clock.


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Thanks for the feedback so far - I've been meaning to post a reply to the various points for a bit now. I'll try to keep it brief for each:

- Orc Bloodline. Yep, missed it. Then again, I don't feel *too* bad, considering it's not in any of the main books and can't even be looked up off the official PRD - you have to either have the splat book in front of you or look it up off a 3rd party site. I'll put a note in about it.

- Fire Snake. Bad spell, a really horrible option in my opinion. You can't hit anything 60+ feet out, you'll have difficulty hitting all your targets, you don't have nearly the flexibility with the Dazing Spell feat, and your damage is generally worse than an optimized fireball. I know Andreww's numbers didn't paint that picture - but that's because he misstated one of the Fireball spell levels, didn't optimize the non-quickened Fireball, and used the highest possible level he could without telling anyone. If anyone wants to run the numbers, here are the optimized spells from both camps:

Quickened Intensified Empowered Fireball + Maximized Intensified Empowered Fireball

Quickened Intensified Firesnake + Maximized Intensified Firesnake

Short story? Anything less than caster level 20, Fireball wins the damage race. And it wins the race while using a lower level spell slot. And at caster level 20? It uses up a higher level spell slot... to deal a total of 2.6% more damage in the round.

- Chain Lightning. I don't like this spell that much, but unlike Fire Snake, I think it's worth adding as a note for the very very high level campaigns. It only starts outpacing Fireball at caster level 20 (like Fire Snake.) The main reason is that the area effect is an improvement over Fireball.

- Lore Seeker. Excellent! I'll look at adding it to the guide (actually I'm using its cousin "missionary" for a guide I'm writing now.)

- Preferred Spell. I'll look at getting it added.

- Words of Power Sorc vs Blockbuster Wizard? Unless the GM rules very unfavorably on how the feats/traits interact ("No Spell Specialization with Words of Power!") the WoP Sorc would blow everything out of the water blast-wise. Nothing can come close to the versatility and sheer power they've got.

- Burning Arc. Hadn't heard of that spell. I'll look it up and give it a look.

- Pyromaniac Gnome. Same as above. I'll give it a review, though I'm skeptical. They don't get an INT bonus, do they?

- Magic Missile. You know, I've never really been a huge fan of that spell, especially with dedicated blasters. I'll give it another look-over, but I'm inclined to go with my gut of: "it doesn't work well with the feats/traits the blaster would be taking, so it probably doesn't compare very well to the actual blasts." Plus, we're after henchmen, not single targets...

- Sirocco. I keep forgetting about this spell - this is the third freaking guide I've written where the spell was brought to my attention. I'll give it a look-over.

- The whole "Not Treating Sorcerers Right".

Was I tongue-in-cheek? Yes.
Was I out to simply say that Wizard Blasters aren't suboptimal? Yes.
Was I doing a Straw-Man? Heck no.

Actually, I think a lot of people missed something mentally with the picture.

Okay, let's start with one Sorcerer type: someone that's focused their bloodlines on Fire damage (Orc/Draconic, Orc/Primal, whatever.) Someone that's chosen a race (Half-Orc) to eke just a bit more out of those spells as well (1/2 pt per level.)

They do more damage than the wizard. They also suck when it comes to fire-immune foes - all their traits/feats that apply to a single spell don't work, and the only bloodline they've got working for them is the Orc bloodline. Basically, they're going to have to use a bad blast with suboptimal damage when that happens.

Now, you can say, "You're not being fair! A sorcerer could take the Elemental bloodline and be able to swap that damage out for a different element!"

You're absolutely right. They covered that hole... at the cost of opening up another one: They lost damage by doing that. Before this swap-out, both of their bloodlines was devoted to increasing their damage dice.

Same thing with all the rest of the fixes - using Arcane for higher saves (you lost damage by losing one of those damaging bloodlines), using Human to counteract losing spells to crossblooded (you lost damage from the Half-Orc's favored class bonus, etc.) All of them have a different weakness they're swapping for.

That was the point of that comparison. I started out with a double-bloodline build. It beat the Admixture Wizard's damage... but had a huge weakness when dealing with Fire-Immune creatures. So one of those bloodlines shifted over to Elemental, plugging that hole... only to watch the Admixture Wizard beat it when it came to damage!

That's the crux of it. The only way the Sorcerer outclasses the Wizard at blasting damage is if they select two bloodlines that increase damage... but if they do that, they set themselves up for a hosing when they run into enemies with resistances/immunities to that element. One way or another, the Admixture is doing *something* better than the sorcerer. In short, Admixture Wizards aren't just suboptimal sorcerers.


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All right! I've finished up the revision of the document. Among the changes:

- Lock Ward was reevaluated and expanded upon.
- Wizard-like references were purged
- 7th-9th level wordspells were added
- Additional lower level combinations were added (especially the 6th level section, which had multiple potent control spells I missed)
- Fixed Unfetter's falling damage
- Added Terror (I had a combo or two with it, but was missing the lone word)
- Reevaluated Corrosive Bolt for blasters
- Fixed Frost Fingers + Ice Blast references (invalid: both are cold words)

Anyway, I wanted to thank everyone that commented. I'm now working on the third chapter of Brewer's GM Guide.


Here's another guide for the list.

Brewer's Guide to the Blockbuster Wizard

The Guide: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5t2af1cwekhnrkj/BlockWiz.pdf

The Discussion Thread: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pwg7?Brewers-Guide-to-the-Blockbuster-Wizard


21 people marked this as a favorite.

Time for a new guide, this one for the Blockbuster Wizard: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5t2af1cwekhnrkj/BlockWiz.pdf

Oh, I'm trying out Dropbox.com instead of Google Docs - I'm running into issues with them destroying the quality of images embedded in PDFs. Please let me know how good/bad the document quality is for you. If it's suitable, I may start storing my guides in Dropbox instead of Google.


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Am now working on a revision to the document, incorporating things people have suggested.

I needed to reply to Serisan, though, about the Corrosive Bolt. I firmly believe the PRD is typoed. Look at these two Words:

CORROSIVE BOLT (ACID)
School conjuration (creation) [acid]; Level magus 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
Duration 1 round/level (see text)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Target Restrictions selected
A wordspell with this effect word deals 1d4 points of acid damage per level of the wordcaster (maximum 5d4). On the following round, the target takes this damage again. Hitting a target with a wordspell with this effect word requires a ranged touch attack.

ACID WAVE (ACID)
School conjuration (creation) [acid]; Level magus 4, sorcerer/wizard 4
Duration 2 rounds
Saving Throw Reflex half and partial (see below); Spell Resistance no
A wordspell with this effect word deals 1d6 points of acid damage per caster level (maximum 10d6). Targets damaged by this effect word are sickened for 1 round per caster level, or 1 round if the saving throw against the wordspell with this effect word was successful.

Corrosive Bolt says it has a Duration of round/level, but look at the text: "On the following round, the target takes this damage again." Not "The target takes this damage each subsequent round".

Now look at Acid Wave. It has a Duration of 2 Rounds... but the text describes immediate damage... followed by an effect that lasts round/level.

They mixed up the durations of the two spells. Trust me, I wrote the first draft of the guide with Corrosive Bolt coded as neon blue - not merely for damage, but because it's a low level conjuration blast that has a duration (which means you could cast Wrack + Corrosive Bolt!)... only to run into the realization that they mixed up the durations.


Rerednaw wrote:

Given that you can run into vampires at this level (or even sooner) what would you recommend? Most strategies I have seen are either high level (sunbeam) and costly (disruption weapons).

About all I can figure is Halt Undead (hope you're lucky) and carry lots of stakes...what else at this level? Well that and Protection from Evil to block domination. Any negative energy protections at this level?

I suppose try to keep them busy with summoned mobs maybe...but they are intelligent and can fly, gaseous form, etc...

Don't forget, Vampires aren't CR=9. They're a template that can create all sorts of different CR levels, the CR=9 is just an example of a vampire. If you're GM, build up some lower level minions using the template. Have 'em run into a group of CR=4 or CR=5 vampire aristocrats. Bust out a CR=6 Summoner Vampire. Create a small evil ceremony with some low level vampire warriors and a CR=6 Vampire Cleric. Etc.

If you're not the GM, and you're asking because the GM mentioned he's throwing vampires at you? Point this out to him, that he's not just stuck with the CR=9 monster in the book.


Starbuck_II wrote:

Another issue: Combining Charm Person with Protection from evil suppresses the charm...

Why did you just suggest that?

Did you suggest I play an evil character? ;-)

You only get the reroll if you're being controlled by an evil object/person/etc. It's the case for both Protection from Evil and Alignment Shield Against Evil. Protection from Evil is nasty, because it's easy to miss the line, because it's after a number of sentences describing what it does, tacked on at the end: "This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion."


Yes, a Fire Blast + Lightning Blastspell is Evocation [Fire, Electricty]. But take a look at immunity's definition:

Energy Immunity and Vulnerability
A creature with energy immunity never takes damage from that energy type. Vulnerability means the creature takes half again as much (+50%) damage as normal from that energy type, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed or if the save is a success or failure.

The relevant bit is "damage from that energy type", not "damage from spells of that energy type. So even though the Spell is technically an Electricity spell, it can still deal fire damage to an Electric-Immune foe.

As for the dice?

Fire Blast and Lightning Blast both have caps at 10d6. The big thing is that you can't deal more than your level in terms of dice.

So if you're an 8th level caster, you'd get 8d6 fire dice and 8d6 electric dice... but you can only use 8 max. So you can do all fire, all electric, or any mix between the two.

If you're a 14th level caster, you get 10d6 fire dice and 10d6 electric dice, but you can only use 14 total. You can split it however you want - 10d6+4d6, 7d6+7d6, 4d6+10d6 - between fire and electric.

And if you're a 23rd level caster, you just get 10d6 fire + 10d6 electric.

Also, you might have been thinking of damage reduction:

If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.

... aka, if you have DR 5/Magic, Cold Iron, the creature gets DR 5 against everything besides Cold Iron Magical weapons (cold iron alone won't bypass the DR.)


thegreenteagamer wrote:
KBrewer wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:

I disagree with the Undead Lord hate. If playing from level 1, its the only way to be a true necromancer with a minion and all. Plus it may only be one, but he does level with you and can be resummoned infinitely, which makes for no need to have a trapspringer.

"Is the hall safe?"

"Let's find out. Timmy, go check"

Skeleton walks down hall, blows up.

"Looks like we're gonna need another Timmy! But at least the hall's probably safe."

"Unless it's a resetting trap."

"Timmy, go check."

Really? That's your example? You're missing something, then:

"Unless it's a resetting trap."

"Okay. Let's wait around 8 hours while I do a ritual to make a new companion to check it out."

... 8 hours later ...

"Timmy, go check."

And, no, your minion really doesn't level with you. Your Hit Die cap does go up each level, but that definitely doesn't mean the minion is scaling along with you. A level 2 character can get a CR=1 skeleton - a one level difference. A level 9 character? Only a CR=4 skeleton (5 levels difference). A 20th level character? Only a CR=8 skeleton (12 levels difference.)

To drive it home further, let's take that 9th level character, who with the Undead Lord feat, can animate a 9 HD skeleton as a CR=4 minion. Or, they could cast Animate Dead on a Bloody Tyranosaurus Skeleton - which would be a CR=9 minion.

So... on one hand we've got a CR=4 creature that takes 8 freaking hours to animate... or we've got a CR=9 creature that *won't die*. To be honest, even if you found a candidate creature you'd make an Undead Lord minion out of, it'd probably be better to just Animate it, then use the Control Undead spell on it.

And to get this bad ability, you're choosing a substandard domain and outright losing the second.

I definitely stand by the Undead Lord hate.

Touché. Still only way to raise undead from level 1 though...

Agreed. Reread what I wrote not longer after I posted it and winced a bit. Didn't mean to be prickly - sorry if I came across the wrong way.


Globetrotter wrote:

Is this link not ipad friendly?

I can't get it to work :(

Yeah, I've been hearing from a number of people about Google Docs not posting mobile friendly versions.

I'm still trying to figure out how to do it differently. I've been uploading PDFs... maybe I need to upload Docs, or HTML, or some other format - or maybe ditch google docs and find another hosting site?

Anyone have any ideas?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
thegreenteagamer wrote:

I disagree with the Undead Lord hate. If playing from level 1, its the only way to be a true necromancer with a minion and all. Plus it may only be one, but he does level with you and can be resummoned infinitely, which makes for no need to have a trapspringer.

"Is the hall safe?"

"Let's find out. Timmy, go check"

Skeleton walks down hall, blows up.

"Looks like we're gonna need another Timmy! But at least the hall's probably safe."

"Unless it's a resetting trap."

"Timmy, go check."

Really? That's your example? You're missing something, then:

"Unless it's a resetting trap."

"Okay. Let's wait around 8 hours while I do a ritual to make a new companion to check it out."

... 8 hours later ...

"Timmy, go check."

And, no, your minion really doesn't level with you. Your Hit Die cap does go up each level, but that definitely doesn't mean the minion is scaling along with you. A level 2 character can get a CR=1 skeleton - a one level difference. A level 9 character? Only a CR=4 skeleton (5 levels difference). A 20th level character? Only a CR=8 skeleton (12 levels difference.)

To drive it home further, let's take that 9th level character, who with the Undead Lord feat, can animate a 9 HD skeleton as a CR=4 minion. Or, they could cast Animate Dead on a Bloody Tyranosaurus Skeleton - which would be a CR=9 minion.

So... on one hand we've got a CR=4 creature that takes 8 freaking hours to animate... or we've got a CR=9 creature that *won't die*. To be honest, even if you found a candidate creature you'd make an Undead Lord minion out of, it'd probably be better to just Animate it, then use the Control Undead spell on it.

And to get this bad ability, you're choosing a substandard domain and outright losing the second.

I definitely stand by the Undead Lord hate.


Whale_Cancer wrote:

Dragon had an article in the late 90s (IIRC) making the case for structuring campaigns and sessions as if they were TV series. I wasn't a fan of how they did it and I'm not a fan of your approach, either.

In general, the problem is that a TV series - or any other kind of narrative storytelling medium - is controlled by one person. RPGs are an entirely different beast; treating them like a TV series will end up the DM-as-writer syndrome... probably one of the biggest complaint I have heard about the style of generally-reckognized-as-bad DMs.

I think your splitting hairs when trying to differentiate your version of recaps and what "a lot of GMs do." I've always done a quick recap to get people's juices flowing, but in general I find players (or, at least, the group collectively) will remember all relevant details. If they haven't, they probably aren't properly engaged in the campaign.

You also seem to write assuming that people have neat sessions in which an entire adventure or adventure leg is completed. I've always had regularly timed sessions which rarely butt up nicely with in game events. Starts of new arcs can happen in the middle of sessions, in the last hour, etc., This is another reason the comparison to an episode of TV sow falls flat.

Few things.

Point #1 - Treating it like a TV show will lead to DM-as-writer.

I completely disagree. Step back for a second and separate Structure versus Content. You're absolutely right that if you rely on tv plots/adventures as the source of your *content*, you're going to creep into GM-as-writer territory. But that's completely different than using TV's *structure*. Those things that I talk about in the guide have nothing to do with the actual content - it's just the way/order you present them to your players.

Heck, take a look at my prior guide and the specific examples in this one and point to where I'm railroading.

Point #2 - The refreshers/recaps being unnecessary.

Again, I completely disagree. I definitely don't think it's fair to say that if a player doesn't remember the relevant details, they're not engaged in the campaign.

And even if most of the players remember most of the relevant details... isn't it still worth it to get everyone on the same page? Heck, at the very least, it makes sure that people aren't confusing two different NPCs or two different enemies they've run into in sessions past. Clarity is rarely a bad thing when GM'ing.

Point #3 - Neat sessions versus regularly timed sessions.

You've got an assumption you're working off of - it's also one I'd suggest you test out for a campaign or two. Your assumption is that how you're handling adventures is superior to neat/clean sessions of adventure legs.

Our group is in the same boat as you - we've got one semi-timed session per week (starts at a specific time, goes 3-4 hours.) So it's not like what I'm suggesting pertains to a group radically different than yours.

....

Or maybe this will help: Imagine your television was interactive. You get to control what one of the characters does.

Do you really think the *structure* of the show would be different? You don't think the same tricks would be involved? You don't think the pacing would crescendo into a commercial, but then stall for a bit after the commercial to get you back into the action? You don't think the episode would try to tie the content off in a mostly-complete bow? You don't think the episode would give you teasers as to what you could do next week if you participated again?


... and yet another guide. A second GM guide, this one targeting the structure of a session and how to give your players the most enjoyment out of the same basic content.

The Guide: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5kvBvq2DEHjRU5FRWV6eDAwa1k

The Discussion Page: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2prfy?Brewers-GM-Guide-2-Session-Structure


I've completed the rough draft of a second GM guide, this time concerned with session structure and giving your players the maximum enjoyment with the same basic content.

The Guide: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B5kvBvq2DEHjRU5FRWV6eDAwa1k


I've completed the long over-due revising of the Reach Cleric Guide. I want to thank all the people so far that have helped out with it, both in support and in fixes/suggestions/etc. The improvements:

The race section was greatly expanded to include Featured and Unusual Races from the Advanced Race Guide.

Additional Metamagic options were added as qualifiers for Spell Perfection.

Dodge-Mobility added to the feat section.

Erastil added as a deity to consider, with Fur/Feather+Growth subdomains listed as options.

Ring of Counterspells, Eyes of the Eagle, Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, and Dusty Rose Ioun Stone added to the suggested items.

Grace added in the spells section.

Stand Still feat fixed.

Rules issue with multiple-AoO fixed.

Int Score recommendations fixed.

Fixed a rules issue with the Liberation domain's ability.

Modified the wording on Combat Reflexes after more field testing.

----------------

Some additional items that I looked over and didn't include:

Big Game Hunter: I couldn't find a reference to this as a Cleric Option. The only thing I found with this was an option for Barbarians.

Rice Runner Trait: I didn't end up expanding the guide to include traits. Maybe in the next version.

Guided Property on a weapon: I couldn't find any reference to it.

Spiked Gauntlets. I know a few commenters went through the trouble of figuring out how to threaten the 5-foot range as well as the spear's 10-foot range. The thing is, I don't think it's terribly relevant. What circumstances have to occur in battle before you get the 5-foot AoO? About the only thing I can think of is Casting + moving right next to an enemy archer/caster (if you're going to attack them, wouldn't you attack 10-foot away so you can use your superior weapon?) It seems to me that anything that'd be within 5 foot of you wouldn't be doing something that would provoke AoO.

Sheyln as a Deity: Sorry, but this deity is Neutral Good. That gives up all the benefits of Sacred Summons.

Anyway, again, thanks to everyone that has helped me improve the Reach Cleric Guide - and I hope it's been a good contribution to the Pathfinder Community! :-)


Oh, by the way, this one is starting out a bit more rough-draft than my other guides; I did a lot less proof-reading and verification on it.

If anyone sees any improvements, clarifications, or rules issues, please bring them up.

Anyway, time to start going back and getting the other guides back up to date...


Broken Zenith wrote:

Added! Very nice KBrewer, looking forward to more guides from you.

Comprehensive Guide to the Guides

Flooding the field. Here's another guide, intended for those wanting to bolster their party with some undead.

The Guide: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjRWFhSWc1ZzAzaDg/edit

The Discussion Thread: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pqof?Brewers-Guide-to-Undeath-A-Necromancers


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I've got a new mini-guide for those casters that are wanting to have some undead minions.

The Guide: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjRWFhSWc1ZzAzaDg/edit


pad300 wrote:
KBrewer wrote:


As for Servitor 2, I think you missed something. Putting "Boost" on the Selected word increases the level of all the effect words by 3. Servitor 2 to summon 1d4+1 creatures takes a fifth level slot (this is what I meant about Servitor not being suitable to summon multiple lower level summons - it's an extra level behind the regular version's 1d4+1 summon, and it even takes a meta word to use.)
Well thats just terrible. One of the major good points about summoning is typically getting a bunch of lower level critters - brute combatants pretty much top out in Summon Monster VI with the Dire Tiger, for example... Not to mention summoning clusters of Bralanis for lightning bolt support, or Vulpinals for Healing (18d6 lay on hands per Vulpinal and SM 6 can get pretty damn close to a Heal!)

Yeah, the "no multiples" bit does kind of suck, but I think it's peanuts compared to getting that standard action summon (the paranoid part in me wants the GM to have almost no opportunity to make me roll a concentration check.)

Plus, if you're playing in a campaign high-enough level where summoning multiples is a lot better than just 1-of the highest, you're probably pretty close to just using the Abyssal bloodline to destroy things.

(As a side note... are you thinking of 3.5 summoning? I didn't think Vulpinals were summonable in pathfinder.)


TheRedArmy wrote:
Mergy wrote:
TheRedArmy wrote:

This looks super. In about 709 years, when I can finally play my Varisian Harrower Sorceress I want to do, I'll be looking to this guide. I'll give a more formal critique when I have the time to fully read it, but it looks great. Thanks for your effort!

EDIT: I do have a question. Why does it stop at 6th-level spells (12th level)? Is it primarily designed for PFS?

Considering the system isn't allowed in PFS, I doubt that's the intention.
I didn't realize. Thanks. But now my original question is valid again. Why only go to level twelve?

Maybe I do need to go back and chart it out past the 6th level. I didn't do it original because I don't have as much experience as I should with the high level magic and the game changes quite a bit at those higher levels.

I'll take some time to think about it.


pad300 wrote:

Question, given a bloodline's bonus spells come as actual spells, not WOP words, why do you think that Human bonus spells become WOP words? As a player, I'd certainly take the bonus spells; there are some effects that are nearly impossible with WOP eg. Planar Binding, Limited Wish, Dimensional Anchor, Polymorph any Object...Not to mention some dominant save or Die effects (Suffocate, Icy Prison).

I'm surprised that you have rated Metaword Mastery Green - I would think blue. Using Boost is sooooo commmon, you need every use of metawords you can get. Also as a rules question, does a given spell count for more than one use of metawords. Eg does a Burst (boosted) Acid Wave (Mind Warp) count as 1 use of metawords or 2?

Summon Servitor 2 is blue - it will devastate fights with boost...1d4+1 blocks of hp and attacks (giant frog/Giant Spider/Hyena) turns outnumbered and outflanked around very effectively at 3ed level...

Regarding Unfetter, falling damage caps at 20d6.

I would encourage you to continue with the higher level words, and looking further into combinations.

The reason the bloodline spells (and all those exceptions listed for the various classes in the W.o.P. section is pretty simple: there's no way of translating the bonus to the Words of Power system. Unless Paizo was going to try to go back to every single bloodline and say, okay, the Serpentine bloodline gets these effect words at these levels, they basically have to just let the sorcerer get those regular spells.

The reason I think the Words of Power translates to the favored class bonus is how the two texts interact:

From the W.o.P. section:
"These spellcasters begin play knowing a number of effect or meta words equal to the number indicated on their respective Spells Known tables. Whenever they gain a level in their respective classes or a level of spellcasting in those classes, they gain new effect or meta words based on the same table"

From the Alternate Favored Class bonus section:
"Add one spell known from the sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the sorcerer can cast."

... basically, when a sorcerer gains spells, they gain them from the effect words.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to twist rules. If your GM rules the opposite, that the favored class bonus gives you regular spells, it is LOADS more powerful. Suddenly, you get the best of both worlds - the best effect words and the best regular spells. In fact, I think that'd be busted in half. Can you imagine? All the flexibility in those higher slots compared to getting the cream of the crop of the God Wizard spells?

-----

As for Servitor 2, I think you missed something. Putting "Boost" on the Selected word increases the level of all the effect words by 3. Servitor 2 to summon 1d4+1 creatures takes a fifth level slot (this is what I meant about Servitor not being suitable to summon multiple lower level summons - it's an extra level behind the regular version's 1d4+1 summon, and it even takes a meta word to use.)

----

I didn't know falling damage was capped at 20d6. Shoot, that makes the spell a lot less funny. Shoot, back to red territory that spell goes after all...


Another one for the list:

Brewer's GM Guide to Campaign Design

The Guide: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjLUs1bHB2UERIcnc/edit

Discussion: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pq98?Brewers-GM-Guide-to-Campaign-Design


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I started a new guide: a GM Guide to Campaign Design.

Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjLUs1bHB2UERIcnc/edit

Let me know if anyone has any suggestions or improvements.


Broken Zenith wrote:
Moved it to the Sorcerer section!

Wait, what? No, the "Words of Power" guide that was already there was fine in the Misc section - it didn't apply to any class or anything.

My guide, the new one, belongs in the Sorcerer section.


Thanks for all the comments so far!

Atarlost: Can you point me to a ruling? I'd be happy to change and correct the parts of the guide if that's the case about Wildblooded/Crossblooded. Also, yeah, it started out as a W.o.P. version of the God Wizard - I thought I had cleaned out all the parts where it applies to Wizards (preparing spells, etc) - can you point to me where I messed up?

VRMH/Buzzard: Okay, you got me. I might have to tweak that section of the guide, though it'll have to be with some big caveats (that GMs will likely put the hammer down on it.) For more info, see this original (unresolved) thread involving the lead designer: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m8u1


Broken Zenith wrote:

Don't know if the front page of the thread gets updated - but I have the Word of Power guide here:

Comprehensive Guide to the Guides

Hm. Didn't see that before.

Well, that's okay - can you put mine under the Sorcerer section anyway - it is a Sorcerer guide (just using the Words of Power system.)

Actually, I might give a shot at rewriting that generic W.o.P. guide. It's currently just a blurb after each word... but it doesn't help you in actually making a character (it doesn't cover which spells your class is allowed, or what spells can be combined with one another.)


I'd like to add a new guide to the list - one that covers something I've never seen covered: Words of Power. The guide covers an optimized Words of Power Sorcerer.

The Guide: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjY2pwRUNXcG5Ybjg/edit

The Discussion Board: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ppvi?Thus-She-Spoke-A-Words-of-Power-Sorcerere ss


15 people marked this as a favorite.

I've finished a new guide to an under-used segment of the Pathfinder System: Words of Power. Suggestions and improvements are welcome; am considering writing a second Words of Power guide for the Oracle.

The Guide: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5kvBvq2DEHjY2pwRUNXcG5Ybjg/edit


MyTThor wrote:

...

One thing I would say is you seriously underrate Sirocco. Forget the fire damage - it's basically a range AoE trip/exhaustion combo. They get knocked prone (and them missing a save is a lot easier than trip dc's most of the time; it even works against low fliers!) and since they're still there the second round they get hit with the exhaustion stacking with the fatigue.

...

I guess the way I looked at it, you cast it, and the creature doesn't save, falls prone, and is fatigued. On their turn, they get up and move out of the area. Why would they be in the area after the first turn?

I might be mis-evaluating it, but it seemed to me like it'd just be small damage + Fatigued; admittedly, I've never actually used it in a battle, so I could very easily be wrong.

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