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Okay, let's see if I can make these equations work. These numbers are super rough to make the math easier because I don't need super specific.
According to the internet the moon from earth looks to be about the size of a dime held at arm's length. Also according to the internet the diameter of a dime is just over .7 inches so roughly the measurement I got with my incredibly precises method of standing on my porch when the moon was full the other day, holding up my fingers, and guessing.
The diameter of Jupiter is 140,000km.
Applying the formulas above and assuming I did the math correctly (I rounded way off), I get the following values:
Io: .33 radians or 1,105 arc minutes
My math seems to agree with the above calculation of the moon and Earth being .009 radians and 30 arc minutes. So all this tells me that 30 arc minutes equals 0.7 inches (the diameter of a dime). So that creates the following formula: (arc minutes/30)*0.7
Applying all of this math gives me the following values of how big Jupiter will appear on a yardstick from arm's length:
Io: 25.76 in
All told, really damn big. Thanks for the help in getting these numbers guys, I appreciate it. Any double checking of my math would be greatly appreciated.
EDIT: Thanks Haladir, it looks like we came to different results as the numbers got bigger.
Thanks guys. I understand the physics behind perspective and such but when searching online I kept getting measurements in degrees and it wasn't computing in my head and certainly wasn't anything I could translate to my ruler system. The other thing I was getting were artist renderings from the surface of the moons and that was nice to give a sense of perspective, but still didn't tell me how big the planet would appear.
These measurements don't need to be precise, just something ballpark I can tell my players. I want to hand them a ruler and make them go to a window and do this so they can get an idea of the scale. I can't just tell them that from the closest world the planet looks REALLY big and from the farthest world it still is pretty big. The best I have so far is a simple comparison of Jupiter from Io appearing 36x bigger than the moon from Earth which would make it almost the size of the entire yardstick and that seems excessive.
I know this is more of a science question but my Google-fu isn't quite answering the question to my needs and it really is game related, I swear.
So I'm whipping up a new game setting that is based sort of on the Galilean moons of Jupiter. It's four small worlds orbiting a gas giant planet. The worlds are smaller than a typical Earth-sized fantasy setting with two that are roughly the same surface area as our moon and two about twice the surface area, about the size of Mercury. So, basically, worlds similar to the Galilean moons.
Anyway, I am trying to determine how big the planet will appear in the sky over these worlds. I've done a fair amount of research and gotten lots of data on the subject, but I am failing at translating that to something simple I can relate to my players. So some help from you fine, smart folks would be much appreciated.
The unit of measurement I am using both out of game and in game is a yardstick. If the ruler is held at arm's length how big does the object appear in the sky? I checked and Earth's moon looks to be roughly 3/4 of an inch in diameter. Since my worlds all orbit their host planet at roughly the same distance as the Galilean moons, how big would Jupiter appear from the surface of each?
ACD started carrying FFG products some time this spring. It's how I got my hands on Slumbering Tsar and Rappan Athuk so relatively inexpensive. Both fantastic books by the way. As a store owner ACD is how I get my personal game books so knowing when it will become available for non-backers tells me if I want to nab it there or jump on board the Kickstarter.
Thanks for the answers guys, I appreciate it. One other question though. I assume the book will be released for Swords & Wizardry and Pathfinder as per usual, but will it also get the 5e treatment?
The question is in the title.
So a question for the FGG folks, do you guys have any plans to update and re-release Bard's Gate? I'm thinking in the same vein as Stoneheart Valley, Rappan Athuk, Lost City of Barakus, etc.?
It seems logical to do so with it being a fairly central location to the Lost Lands and I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet. So will we be seeing it any time soon?
Mega Frog God Campaign, Advice and Discussion? [Stoneheart Valley, Bard's Gate, Rappan Athuk, Slumbering Tsar]
Mega Frog God Campaign, Advice and Discussion? [Stoneheart Valley, Bard's Gate, Rappan Athuk, Slumbering Tsar]
@Joshua: How do you - and your players - like Wizards Amulet and Crucible of Freya? And what is your opinion on running 5th ed vs running Pathfinder? I am curious to know your experiences and thoughts?
We have absolutely LOVED the adventures. They are solid and a lot of fun. If you have a party that want solid plot then it is totally there. If you want smaller plots, it has those also. If you want a sandbox, you can play it that way too. It's really really great. My group hasn't left the Fairhill region yet so I can't speak to the same versatility in the other material I'm using but it looks to be more of a sandbox style than a plot driven style. Stoneheart Valley has been worth every penny.
As far as PFRPG vs 5e, they aren't really that different. Both are great systems and I love them both. Pathfinder is robust and solid while 5e is a more fast and loose kind of rules style so it all comes down to how you and your players enjoy interacting with the rules of the game.
Mega Frog God Campaign, Advice and Discussion? [Stoneheart Valley, Bard's Gate, Rappan Athuk, Slumbering Tsar]
That sounds VERY similar to the campaign I put together and a lot of fun. For me the big part was putting together the setting and placing all of the locations on maps but once that was done my job of running the game is considerably easier. I'm actually running the game in D&D 5e and doing conversions as we come to them but the monsters are mostly old school and presented in the Monster Manual. Those that aren't are easy enough to convert or reskin an existing monster. If I were running it in Pathfinder, which was my other choice but my players chose 5e, my job would be even easier since everything except Bard's Gate is already written in PFRPG. I'm interested to hear how your campaign pans out since we are kind of doing the same thing only with slightly different material.
My players have been really enjoying the campaign though they are complaining about the slow XP progression and the fact that they are still only low level, having just hit 4th. Otherwise, they are raving about the game. They are really embracing the sandbox nature and are alternating between quests and hex crawling. They have yet to venture into a big dungeon but I suspect when they do they will switch to dungeon delving as well.
The big thing I have noticed however is the sheer massive amount of material I am presenting to them. They have finished Wizard's Amulet but are still deep in Crucible of Freya. They finished the keep but are still exploring the land around Fairhill. They are talking about going to my reskinned Bard's Gate, but have yet to actually do so. There is just so much for them to do I have no doubt they will never touch all of it.
Kudos to the fine folks at Frog God Games for presenting material that is so much fun to play.
There is an issue with Fangwood Keep, being that is a level 4 scenario and you had it at 2, EATERoftheDEAD. I'm currently reasearching an actual answer to this conundrum, will have it up shortly.
Damn, I'm not sure how I messed that one up. I sat down with the copies I have and shuffled them into order by level the way I planned to run them and I doubt I would have made that mistake in actual play so I guess I wasn't paying close attention when I made that list.
Feast of Ravenmoor could be dropped to level 2 but GMs will need to be careful with the last fight as it can be brutal. Fangwood Keep can also be played down for PFS but again, GMs will need to pay close attention and don't put too much pressure on the party. I've run both but Feast of Ravemoor I've run a few times including as a PFS scenario though I don't recall the levels of the characters.
Imagine the fun that could be had playing a character from 1-18 all in society legal modules!
From what I gather Emerald Spire does exactly that. What little I've read it looks like a lot of fun.
I'm a player in an RA campaign and we've tackled the Mouth of Doom, Gut and some of RA. The first segments work really well for a fetch quest in the Mouth that leads to a chase through the Gut into RA. My party currently has some souls on hawk to some devils in return for the destruction of a "temple", which as a DM you might be able to fashion as an end to the segment, assuming there actually is a temple in our near future and it isn't so tough as to wipe the whole party.
There are temples in your future, have no fear.
Sword of Air (PFRPG) is 520 pages.
Given the price tag I assumed it was something like that.
I considered getting the RA expansion because at cost the price is pretty reasonable and from what I hear Castle Calelen (or however it's spelled) is pretty great. For the purposes of my campaign though I'm leery about adding too much stuff.
RA has a ton of rumors and I just leafed through ST and there are a few sections of rumors as well. Rumor tables are very handy for giving reason to go explore either the extensive wilderness areas or extensive dungeons.
I usually do heavy conversion so I end up with about half custom material. This time I'm going with what's written, with a few exceptions such as new wilderness maps to fit the geography of my homebrew world.
I don't know how much use I will get out of it either but I will gladly take a look at it and see what I can pillage.
Matthew Morris wrote:
I know it's too late, but Stoneheart Valley/Crucible of Freya/Tomb of Abysthor are updated to PFS, and were recently in the bundle of holding.
I have Stoneheart Valley, the update and it's really great. The bundle of holding deals are fantastic too.
I like those ideas. Good hooks to get them out there to the shrines are hard to find. Then there is nothing to tie the wilderness locations together either.
The best example is a section in the Freya section that has some little adventures that tie locations together or give a little plot or such outside the main plot of orcs in the keep. The hooks for these adventures are mostly pulled from the rumors table so it's not difficult to put together things from the rumor table, or the hooks laid out in various places within the dungeons or such in the other books, it's just so much more convenient to have the information put together in one place and have a little more flesh to them such as NPC reactions to events and so on. A good example is the missing adventurers adventure.
So RA and presumably also ST have the rumors to build these things from but the Abysthor section is strangely lacking even a rumors table. It has about a paragraph essentially telling me to do it myself. lol
BG is almost exclusively setting and NPCs. There's not really any plot outside the abbey and the gnolls.
For example, there could be a great little adventure dealing with the gibbering orb (originally a beholder). However, as far as I can tell, he just kind of lives there waiting for the party to go hex crawling.
The third party material I am the most familiar with is the stuff from Frog God Games.
Rappan Athuk is fantastic and gives more than enough material to run a campaign from level 1-20. It is almost exclusively a megadungeon so if you don't like that it's not the product for you. However if you do, it's an outstanding example, The price tag for the Pathfinder version is less than buying any Paizo AP and the page count of adventure material is more at around 650 as opposed to around 350.
The Slumbering Tsar Saga is a beast of a book at close to 950 pages and the price is a bit steep for a single book but you get content worth every penny. It is about the same cost as buying a full Paizo AP but there is about half again as much material so it's worth it. The AP runs levels 7-20 and looks to have a good mix of wilderness, urban, and dungeon. I just got my copy last week so I haven't been able to give it a detailed read through yet.
It's not specifically what I asked but it still is in line with the idea behind the thread so suggest away! :D
I started the campaign because I mentioned in passing that Stoneheart Valley, Rappan Athuk, and Slumbering Tsar would make a neat mega campaign to a couple of my sandbox loving, old school friends and they had a squee fit. I plugged Bard's Gate into the mix to give a central location the party could return to. My central theme is the Orcus/Tsathoqqua conflict and the story of the fall of Tsar and the final battle at Rappan Athuk. So, no big plot, just an reoccurring theme.
If I add Sword of Air I think I may break my back attempting to transport the books. Seriously, Slumbering Tsar alone is like an unabridged dictionary. I fear also my players may collapse under the weight of all the adventure material. lol All in all, it's a lot more material to add to an already large game, also, I'm kind of broke and SoA would be another $50-$60 (I just now priced it) I just don't have at my disposal. I run a game store so I get books at cost, which is how I was able to afford the books I just received (all three books plus a copy of Shadowrun Fifth Edition cost me about $160, which is super badass if you're a big game nerd and collector like I am).
For others though, SoA could be a good fit for a Frog God mega campaign. I'm not familiar with the book so I'm interested to hear more about it.
Rise of the Runelords is a fantastic campaign and it deserves the place it has earned as a classic people will be playing and talking about for years to come. My only issue is it's linear nature. I have nothing against linear games it's just I have played almost exclusively that for a VERY long time and I've been itching for a sandbox for a little while now.
I just checked out the description of Sword of Air and it looks like it could be a great addition to this style of game. I'm not sure how many pages it boasts but with a retail price tag of $99 I imagine it's pretty robust.
So let me first give a bit of context and explanation to what I mean in my topic.
Also, this thread will have spoilers so consider yourself warned.
I have now in my grubby, little nerd mits hard copies of Stoneheart Valley, Rappan Athuk, and Slumbering Tsar. (Parenthetical Aside: Holy eff are those books massive. I mean seriously, RA and ST are beasts.) I decided to add these to a borrowed copy of Bard's Gate for an epic campaign and, just because the I am a sadist, I added Glades of Death at the last minute (PF updates of these books, especially BG would be fantastic).
I adapted this mega campaign to my homebrew world, mostly so I could ignore the geography explained in the books and give my players something familiar. The changes mostly just boil down to a couple of name changes and new overland maps rearranging where things are located to fit my new geography. I then went with a slow XP progression and cut my player's loose.
If anyone else is considering a mega campaign such as this I'm happy to discuss the details of such a game. Also, I would love to pick the brains of anyone else who has tied these products together. That's the point here. :D
So, first question/advice request. My party has cruised through Wizard's Amulet and are nearly done dealing with the orc threat in Crucible of Freya. I don't know if they are going to head for the shrines next or explore Bard's Gate for a bit. They may get a wild fancy and head down to Rappan Athuk for some swift death, er, I mean adventure... yeah, adventure...
I'm curious what folks have done for plot hooks or delve quests etc. SVs Crucible section has a great part with tons of little adventures to incorporate the presented material and I have been making good use of it. The Abysthor section however, only has a couple paragraphs saying GMs should whip some stuff like that up and then just kind of moves on. RA is kind of the same from what I remember when I read it for a campaign a few years ago (I haven't had the opportunity yet to dive into the tome in earnest). I can go through and come up with things but I decided to tap the collective and see what trickles out.
So what have folks used as plot hooks and quests in these books?
The Dragon's Demand is a nice campaign kickoff. It's pretty classic in its tropes at first but deviates into some unique stuff. It's placed in Taldor so you have a fair amount of opportunity for adventure afterward. The town of Belhaim is a great base of operations for an adventuring party and when I ran it my party ended up with a manor house of their own. It piles on a bit more magic than most but not dramatically so and if you find is a concern it is easy enough to balance out over a few levels.
I did my map the way (I assume) most hex maps are measured. The distance is from one side of the hex to the opposite side of the hex, or the center of one hex tot he center of an adjacent hex, which is the same thing. So that would be the height according to the linked site.
Thank you very much for the link, it calculates exactly what I am looking to calculate. :D
To use my above example, I have 1,178 hexes, each 20 miles across, my map is Just over 408,071.1 square miles, or about three Californias. So, bigger than I intended it to be, but since it's a coastal region there is a fair amount of ocean and islands.
So I am trying to figure out the square miles of my homebrew game world map but I drew it on hex paper and now I'm not sure how many square miles it is. I did a search online to find a conversion but all I could really find was an old forum thread that offered up a bunch of mathematical formulae for determining the area of a hex and debate to their accuracy for game purposes with no real answer.
Can anyone here help a brother out? If I can get an answer than hopefully other folks wandering about the interwebs with just such a problem will be able to find an answer as well.
What I am looking for is a simple means of calculating hex miles to square miles. If I have x number of hexes, each y number of miles across, my map is z number of square miles. That sort of thing, but a formulae that isn't too complicated and involving figuring the area based on the length of the sides and so on and so on geometry. Something the non mathies will be able to do. If a website with a calculator or such exists that would be great too.
The map I made for my homebrew world is 1,178 hexes large with each hex representing miles. How many square miles is my map?
Hello all, I am prepping a massive sandbox set to start next month and so I seeded it with a ton of different bits of adventure material I had in my kind of absurdly large collection. Don't judge, I've been collecting the damn things for over 20 years. :P
Anyway, the game will be run in 5e, which is obviously, a completely different system to previous editions. It might look similar, but it really is quite different. So I have adventure material not just from 5e but also from AD&D and 2E, 3E/3.5, Pathfinder, and 4E. I have drawn from some other games such as Warhammer FRP and Call of Cthulhu but those require a completely different attitude toward conversion.
So what I am looking to do is be able to make some quick and dirty conversions at the table. It doesn't need to be pretty, it just needs to work. When I can I am just going to pull the same monster from the Monster Manual but that's not always an option. Have any of you done this? I did some searching online and found a few things that talked about 3.5/PF conversions on the fly, but nothing else really. I just need to know quick ways to adjust HP, attacks, abilities, stats, and save DCs for different editions. Saving Throws and Skills/Proficiencies are pretty straightforward. I've run enough 5e at this point to understand the system pretty well, of course, it's a pretty light system.
I started my group out at level 3 but they never really dove into the dungeon. They flitted around the surface world for a bit before we disbanded. I told them a bunch of the rumors and they got all skittish and intimidated and avoided going there, They were really funny when they went into the bee hive and found a back entrance. Little did they know that the surface areas are just as dangerous as inside.
I am starting a game this afternoon that is a big sandbox and Rappan Athuk is part of it, if they feel like exploring. I really hope they do some delving.
I am preparing to run Carrion Hill for a Halloween party. I need to be able to complete it in about 8 hours. Is this possible or will it need to be shortened? If so, what are the best ways to shorten it?
A couple of years ago I ran Feast of Ravenmoor for the same people and a Halloween gaming party was so much fun and I really want to do it again. Feast plays really quick and every time I've run it's come in somewhere around 7 hours. I really hope Hill can be made to match. We don't use minis so our play is considerably faster because of that, but I'd like to hear your thoughts and suggestions.
There is a discrepancy between the number of assumed encounters per level between Pathfinder at medium XP and 5e. I did a mathematical breakdown of the 5e progression chart to see how many CR equivalent encounters are needed to advance in level. The medium XP track for Pathfinder assumes around 20, while the 5e track varies with a very quick progression from level 1-3 and then slows down some until around level 12 or so where it speeds back up.
I don't still have the breakdown I did but I can give the formula I use: (level XP requirement)x4 divided by (CR equivalent XP)
D&D 5e isn't designed to be a steady advancement like PF is. It's designed to have a quick intro bit where you get a handle on your characters then settle into them in the mid levels where the bulk of play will take place. Converting an AP will require adjusting assumed levels and a number of other considerations that may make it more complicated than it needs to be, especially if you do Rise of the Runelords which uses the fast XP track (which tries to match 3.5 with 13 encounters per level). It may be easier to just level up the party as you see fit when they reach certain points in the adventures; a method 5e refers to as milestone advancement if I remember correctly.
As an interesting aside because I did the breakdowns recently, D&D 4E had a progression table that matched about 10 encounters per day, so characters advanced faster but the same level of power that is otherwise in 20 levels was spread out over 30 levels. AD&D 2E, if the class XP tables are averaged out (which I did because I'm a nerd), it has a similar curve in the progression with a slightly faster early levels and then slower through mid levels before picking back up for high level play though it ends up averaging around 25 encounters per level for the low levels and 15 for the high levels, which ends up being a little faster than Pathfinder's slow progression, which aims for 30.
My biggest concern would be adding treasure. It seems difficult to know what magic items should be given to the PCs since they are not assumed in 5e, and the normal amount of 3.5/PF magic items would probably be too much for a 5e game.
I assume advice for this will appear in the DMG but until that comes out we could take a look at the treasure awards in Hoard of the Dragon Queen and get a general idea.