Meyanda

John Picot's page

Organized Play Member. 13 posts (29 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Organized Play characters. 1 alias.


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Colette Brunel wrote:

1. The bonuses and penalties rules in pages 266-267 would, in fact, seem to allow multiple personal upgrades to the same ability score to stack. This seems highly abusable. Would this not mean a +12 bonus to one ability score from personal upgrade stacking?

2. Do thrown weapons and grenades use Strength or Dexterity for the attack roll?

3. Do thrown weapons and grenades use Strength or Dexterity for their DCs?

4. Do operative melee weapons allow you to use Dexterity instead of Strength for the damage roll, as the rules for ability damage apply?

5. Are grenades reusable?

page 245: Ranged Attacks with a Thrown Weapon

With a thrown weapon or a grenade, you can make a ranged attack at a target that is within the weapon’s maximum range and in your line of effect (see page 271).You add your Strength modifier to your ranged attack rolls with a thrown weapon, and to your damage rolls with weapons with the thrown special property. Do not add your Strength modifier to damage rolls with grenades. (seems like it would make more sense to use Dex to make the attack roll, but I guess Starfinder simplified things a bit).

Page 183: Grenades
Grenades are thrown weapons that detonate in an explosive
radius when they reach the target. A grenade’s listing on Table
7–7: Grenades shows its explosion radius. Some grenades have
additional effects, such as blinded or entangled, that apply
only to creatures in the explosion radius that fail a Reflex save
against the grenade. The DC of the save is equal to 10 + half the
grenade’s item level + your Dexterity modifier. Any penalty you
take to your attack roll also applies to this save DC. (Grenades use Dex for their DC, though some like the smoke grenade use Fortitude since the explosion isn't damaging)

Page 184: Operative Weapons
Operative melee weapons are basic in design, but they are
capable of dealing precise damage when wielded by a trained
combatant. An operative can use the trick attack class feature
with a weapon with the operative special property. Additionally,
any character can add her Dexterity modifier rather than her
Strength modifier to melee attack rolls with these weapons.(They use their Dexterity bonus on the attack roll, but like other melee weapons still use their strength modifier for additional damage.)

Page 192: You can install a fusion into a grenade, a piece of ammunition, or another consumable item; (this implies a grenade is consumable and not reusable).

Dark Archive

UPGRADE SLOT
Androids have a single armor upgrade slot in
their bodies. Regardless of whether androids
are wearing physical armor, they can use this
slot to install any one armor upgrade that
could be installed into light armor.

TENSILE REINFORCEMENT
When calculating your armor’s hardness and Hit Points (see
page 409), treat it as if its item level were 5 higher.

The assumption would be that they wouldn't benefit from this upgrade at all. Androids aren't objects, so they wouldn't benefit from increased object hardness or hit points.

It's definitely something that needs to be clarified by the rules writers, because it's guaranteed there will be more armor upgrades introduced in later books.

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Voss wrote:
gigyas6 wrote:


I don't mind that there are ways around the dangers of space environments. I mind the dismissive ease at which they are dealt with. It's these very tense and dramatic moments that I want most to see, and are what make the environmental rules interesting - and it's these exact sort of scenes that wearing armor (or, as we mentioned, basic clothing) completely negates.

I think it's pretty much necessary to negate it, for a cooperative D&D-like game. Instant death environments don't make for tense and engaging gameplay, they make for rezzing, rerolling or TPKs. Which are either game enders or trivial difficulties.

Or there is a convenient stash/escape hatch by the door, and they if they don't bollix a die-roll they'll be fine. And the game turns into a laughable comedy or errors where people get murdered by the environment at least 5% of the time- so default protection has to be assumed.

John Picot wrote:
Here's a simple idea: Bad guys capture the PCs and in a typically fiendish manner strip them of space suits and maroon them on a hostile planet to die. So now the PCs have to survive the elements without all their usual protective gear. And that idea only took me 1 minute to formulate.
Sounds like a typical star trek writer solution. Oh no, <tech> gets in the way of the story I want to write. Randomly the characters have no access to <tech>... because reasons. The drama! With added railroad that the PCs are captured... because reasons.

Been working for screenwriters, science fiction authors and all manner of films, successfully for years. Actually with as difficult as it can be to actually kill characters (RPS), getting them knocked out and marooned, isn't as ludicrous as it seems.

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Bluenose wrote:
John Picot wrote:
Here's a simple idea: Bad guys capture the PCs and in a typically fiendish manner strip them of space suits and maroon them on a hostile planet to die. So now the PCs have to survive the elements without all their usual protective gear. And that idea only took me 1 minute to formulate.
Fortunately the fiendish bad guys were kind enough to leave compressed air canisters, breather masks, full body protection against the cold so frostbite won't get them and some way to recharge those so they'd last long enough for the PCs to reach some form of shelter. Fiendish, but sporting.

Nah that would be James Bond villain level stupid. But the PCs might remember a downed probe or something they have to reach to call for help, or some experimental base that's difficult to reach but will cost them precious time. As long as the environment isn't "LOLINSTADEATH" lethal, and PCs have a reasonable chance to survive it, its doable. Like for instance you don't want to try that scenario with the planet composed entirely of magma, ice, or desert...Ala George "Kessel Run" Lucas...

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They have to be able to twist the weapon just right to get that extra 1d4 damage. It'd make more sense if all the operative weapons were knives. But if you really started trying to make sense of it all, people would point out that "how do Operatives know what vital areas are on each of the millions of possible things they encounter in space?"

Personally I'd let a player Operative use his trick attacks with unarmed combat, especially if its the case of something like a Vesk. Not too hard to imagine them using one of those big, clawed fingers to inflict a lethal slash or puncture.

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Hmm. If the checks get too ridiculous, I'd say the main person making the check (Captain I suppose) could get a +2 aid other bonus from the other members of the crew pitching in to help. Otherwise your only hope is maybe a natural 20?

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Voss wrote:
It may also have something to do with the UBPs or whatever the abbreviation is. (Universal Build Somethings) that most everything is made of. They're 1 to 1 for credits, but perhaps deconstruction isn't an option (once they're manufactured into a form, they can't be turned back into functional UBPs). This produces a society that is very big on custom, personalized _everything_, and a reluctance for off the shelf (and bloody, battered, used) equipment. If it can't be customized to just the right shade of velvety lavender with a widget just so on the back, the customer will pass.

I think Voss hits the nail on the head. If anything you want can be made to your specific desires just by utilizing UBP technology, its rare someone is going to want to buy something, someone else had made for them. Unless of course the item has sentimental value (that blaster belonged to my great grandad Blazer Bill).

I'm noticing that a lot of the game is less focused on buying the latest, and bestest hardware, and more about adding on and customizing what you have until you absolutely have to buy the next thing.

Also, the game seems to have heavy mandates on GMs controlling the wealth and item availability for players. Naturally this is going to create its own problems when players from other GMs come to play and the GMs are a bit more relaxed with their rules (You're level 3 and you got a Grindblade? What the actual f!). But this isn't a new problem for older gamers like me. We're used to the oldschool D&D games where DMs would play Monty Hall and give away absolute relics like Stormbringer, or the Staff of the Magi (I'm not even kidding about this, you'd be stunned to see how many people were walking around with Thor's hammer).

One way you can help keep a group's wealth in check is to remind them that their ship also needs upgrades and such, and push them to make a party fund for it.

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Can you get other characters to assist you on those checks? What size of ship are you looking at?

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Here's a simple idea: Bad guys capture the PCs and in a typically fiendish manner strip them of space suits and maroon them on a hostile planet to die. So now the PCs have to survive the elements without all their usual protective gear. And that idea only took me 1 minute to formulate.

If the environmental rules are too complex, you can always simplify a bit.

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Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
John Picot wrote:
FLite wrote:
Don't forget that stats are no longer nearly as important for damage. With no two handed weapon, and with weapon damage dice scaling rapidly, and weapon specialization the difference between Str 14 and Str 18 is vanishingly small. And by 10th level, you are really looking at the difference between STR 18 and Str 20.

Something to keep in mind: In addition to a +1 or +2 on an ability score of your choice at levels 5, 10, 15, 20. The game also allows for personal upgrades.

...

Level 3 hopefully you have enough creds to buy your Mk. 1 upgrade and instead of min/max you want to stay with as evenly distributed points as possible: 12 12 12 11 10 8.

Level 5 you get your first ability score increase. Since all your stats are below 17 you get a +2 anywhere you like: 12 12 12 12 11 8.

You get bonuses to four abilities at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th.

"Each time you reach one of these level thresholds, choose four of your ability scores to increase."

So from 4th to 5th, your stats go from

12 12 12 11 10 8

to

14 13 12 12 12 10

(assuming you're boosting your lowest scores, for some reason)

Holy cow! You're right! I didn't notice the four ability scores!I just thought it was the same as Pathfinder increase!

But if that's the case,then it would seem to mean that ability scores have less impact on the game than they did in Pathfinder.

Now I have to redo the math and figure out how it impacts the game.

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FLite wrote:
Don't forget that stats are no longer nearly as important for damage. With no two handed weapon, and with weapon damage dice scaling rapidly, and weapon specialization the difference between Str 14 and Str 18 is vanishingly small. And by 10th level, you are really looking at the difference between STR 18 and Str 20.

Something to keep in mind: In addition to a +1 or +2 on an ability score of your choice at levels 5, 10, 15, 20. The game also allows for personal upgrades.

Assuming your GM isn't a meanie face and doesn't allow you access to these, you can pay for Personal Upgrades at level 3, 7, and 14. You can Min/Max scores across 3 attributes to look like: 24, 20, 19 10, 10, 10 (this assumes a focused build with negative attributes brought up to a 10). These numbers represent a peak 20th level character's maximized stats.

You could vary up your stats a lot more, but most players are keenly aware that MAD builds are rough to balance in the first place. But for arguments sake, lets say you want to balance your stats more or less evenly.

Level 1,You start with 10 in all stats. Then add race, every race is +2 in two stats and -2 in one (or the few races who get +2 in two stats and no minus) so now its: 12 12 10 10 10 8. Then you get to add your theme so thats another +1: 12 12 11 10 10 8.

Level 3 hopefully you have enough creds to buy your Mk. 1 upgrade and instead of min/max you want to stay with as evenly distributed points as possible: 12 12 12 11 10 8.

Level 5 you get your first ability score increase. Since all your stats are below 17 you get a +2 anywhere you like: 12 12 12 12 11 8.

Level 7, been saving creds? Now you decide to raise your worst score so it won't drag you down anymore. 12 12 12 12 12 11.

Level 10, still going for the lowest score first: 13 12 12 12 12 12. You now have a +1 across all ability scores.

Level 14, got credits? Its your last major stat upgrade: 18 13 12 12 12 12.

Level 15, staying with even distribution: 18 14 13 12 12 12.

Level 20, its your last ability score add on and its leaving you with a slightly above average character: 18 14 14 13 12 12. You'll have a bonus in every stat mod, and even a few top grade ability scores for your class, but you might have done better to min/max earlier for superior bonuses. It's best to plan your stat builds ahead of time for this reason, and multiclassing will be pretty picky depending on what stats your classes favor.

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Let's remember that a lot of "weak" Pathfinder classes early on got feats or archetypes which made them significantly better than they were initially. True if you subscribe to the tiers system, created for Pathfinder, a lot of classes never made it out of tier 5.
That being said, several archetypes pushed certain classes to tier 4 or 3.

So while the initial builds for Solarians and Envoys may be "weak" or "limited." It's a sure bet that other gaming companies as well as Paizo themselves will be introducing new archetypes to beef up, or drastically change the way these classes are played.

Add to this the complexity that Races and Themes add to each class, and its not rocket science to figure out that Optimized builds and playguides will be soon be posting on the internet.

One thing that Starfinder seems to push even more than Pathfinder is the focus on teamwork and everyone having an individual role to play. This is especially notable in the Starship Combat rules where everyone in the group can theoretically chip in to help the group as a whole, even if they aren't directly affecting the combat with damage output.

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Because of the way the current rules are written, they allow for some very odd situations in the game. One such situation happened to cross our table a few weeks ago.

the setting: A combat in a library. Books and sheets of papers stacked everywhere, wooden shelves, candles and lanterns abound.

An 8th level Sorcerer tosses a fireball inside the library. The fireball goes off and lights up all flammables in the area as well as nuking the target for 8 dice of fire damage. Result: burning books, shelves, exploded lanterns, melted candles and a heck of a blaze beginning.

Same setting. A Huge red dragon is in the same library and blasts a cone of fire. The targets in the cone get fried. The library remains blissfully intact and ignorant of the flames, despite the crispy critters in it.

Why?

A simple part of the rule mechanics. The fireball's rule entry says: The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze.

You can imagine the comedy.