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Nope, you're still wrong, because 5th isn't the most recent printing. My PDF says what the PRD says; d20pfsrd.com is an update behind, which further shows that the PRD is the more reliable resource in transcribing rules.
No, his is actually further off than mine (though I did leave a bit off mine too).The rule is in this format:
When you X, instead of normal-X you may A, B or C.
Instead of normal-X you may A, B or C.
When you X, instead of Y you may not-Y.
Mine was identical except for leaving out "when you X". His inclusion of "when you X" is just about the only thing that's not different from Controlled Rage—he's completely altered the fundamental structure of the sentence as a whole.
Controlled rage should be parsed into two halves: first you've got "When you X, instead of normal-X..." which denotes that you're replacing normal-X with a different verion. They you've got "you may A, B or C" which says "here's the list of things you can do".
Brf's sentence forms a break in a different spot. You start with "When you X", telling us the condition under which the next part of the sentence happens. Then we get "instead of Y you may not-Y", which shows that the default method of X is Y, but not-Y is also an option.
A correct example, that follows the entire structure of Controlled Rage (which, as a reminder, is "When you X, instead of normal-X you may A, B or C.") would be something like this:
"When you go out, instead of going where you were planning you may go to the movies, the cafe, or the park."
That is the same structure as Controlled Rage. And I think it's pretty obvious that the originally-planned party is not an allowed destination.
I love the Pathfinder ruleset. When you're sufficiently proficient with it, it's actually a very solid system that produces remarkably few real issues. Just about every time I hear someone complain about the rules getting in the way of the fun/story/whatever, the issue they're seeing is actually being produced by their own faulty understanding of the rules, and usually the correct understanding of the rules produces the thing they thought the rules were preventing.
This isn't the first time I've seen the sentiment that Pathfinder's grapple rules are overly complicated, but I've never understood why.
How is "touch attack + opposed strength check" simpler than Pathfinder's "CMB check"? I don't have a math degree, but I'm pretty sure your two steps are one step more complicated than Pathfinder's one step.
What exactly is so complicated about grappling in Pathfinder? You make the check, they're grappled. You maintain, and they stay grappled plus a bonus effect selected from a bulleted list.
How on Gozreh's green earth does anyone need a flow chart for that?
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
This brings up an awkward element of the Knowledge skills. We know the DC to learn the details about a specific creature, but what's the DC to know something that's common to an entire category of creatures?
What's the DC to know that most walking skeletal structures are resistant to non-bludgeoning damage?
What's the DC to know that most things that look like dead people who are moving are affected by holy water?
What's the DC to know that massive winged lizards can usually spit something harmful across an area and so you should spread out?
How do we even decide?
Oh! Thought of one!
I dislike the connection between immediate and swift actions (i.e., that using an immediate action consumes your swift for this/next turn). It's a bit of a memory strain to use liberating command or feather fall on Bob's turn, wait half a dozen creatures worth of turns, then remember that this turn I can't use Arcane Strike. Would it really break anything if I could use one of each on the same round?
You know it when you see it.
My experience tells me otherwise. I've followed lots of rules threads through to their conclusions. Some of them end with designer commentary and/or FAQing. A great many of those end up being officially answered as "yes, you really can do this". And in every single case of an issue ending with official endorsement, there's been a contingent of GMs crying "cheese" the whole time only to vanish silently when the so-called "cheese" gets vetted by the Design Team.
It's my estimation that the more often someone cries "cheese", the less likely it is they have any clue what they're talking about.
Honestly, I've been considering compiling a list of FAQs whose topic was called cheese then officially declared legit, so I have something to point to when folks can't seem to understand why a genuinely-abusive munchkin isn't listening to their indictments.
EDIT: Compiled, at least for CRB FAQs.
Dorothy Lindman wrote:
If the commenters are multi-star GMs
To be fair, that's a really big "if". Occasionally if I learn of a new ruling over in the Rules forum, I post a thread in here precisely because I know the PFS GMs will never see it otherwise.
"Posters in the Rules forum" and "multi-star PFS GMs" are effectively two different demographics with only the slightest overlap (most of which is Nefreet, hehe).
EDIT: But more on topic, you're right; tablemates are no more likely to be right than forumites. They're all just people with varying degrees of willingness to read and/or to be "wrong".
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Heh, I was going to do something similar with FAQs posted within the specified time frame, but haven't had time and now you've beaten me to the punch.
Can I be your successor?
Only if we institute mandatory training for GMs to learn the difference between "trivializing" and "successfully overcoming". :/
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: never consider essential/necessary that which requires an extra book.
So, here are some nice options straight from the CRB, available to every character:
• For swarms: alchemist's fire or acid. Alchemist's fire is the same price and damage as two flasks of acid, but is only the weight of one flask; relevant for low-STR types.
• For darkness: potion of darkvision. Remember, Pathfinder's version of darkness doesn't hinder darkvision in any way, so for 300gp you're "immune" to it for 3 hours.
• For deeper darkness: oil of daylight. Daylight has a unique ability to negate any darkness effects overlapping its radius (though its own light is negated at the same time). Note that some GMs will rule that other light sources are still suppressed in the area, so it's a good idea to also have a darkvision option to combo with this oil.
• For grapples: oil of grease. For a mere 50gp, it's +10 vs grapples.
• For DR: cold iron morningstar covers bludgeoning, piercing and cold iron. A silver light mace covers silver without taking a damage penalty. A dagger covers slashing and piercing, plus you never know when you might need to cut something for which a greatsword is a bit too imprecise/indiscreet.
• For verticalness: rope against a wall is a DC 5 climb check, which nearly everyone can make with a Take 10. A scroll/potion of spider climb is 150gp/300gp and is faster and automatic (as long as you don't need your hands while climbing). A potion of fly is 750gp and fast, but be aware of the necessary Fly checks and the fact that you can't take ranks unless you can fly every day (i.e., have wings or a flight spell in your book/spells known). Of course, a headband of vast intelligence will max your ranks in one skill for 4,000gp...
• For flying/distant enemies: A sling is free, sling bullets are cheap, and you get to add your STR bonus. A crossbow is cheap, and you don't have to apply your STR penalty. A wand of magic missile is reliable, and will outlive your need for it. A potion of fly will let you do your melee schtick after all (usually).
Having successfully prompted a few FAQs myself, and having been involved in the discussions that led to others, I'm going to have to disagree.
My dad likes to work on cars. Sometimes when I visit, he'll even work on mine for/with me. :D
One time, he needed to take some bolts or something off, and discovered he didn't have a wrench of the correct size. So he went to the hardware store and bought a set of wrenches. When he got home, he discovered that the pack he'd purchased was metric instead of U.S., so even the closest one didn't fit.
So he was right back where he started: he needed to go buy a new wrench.
Now, what do you suppose his reaction was? Do you think he said "That's pretty silly that Honda would require me to buy the same thing twice"? Or do you think he said "Oops, I bought the wrong thing"?
Andrew Christian wrote:
Sunder the armor, pilfering hand the pouch. ;)
Oh, I've only been playing for 30 odd years with a huge number of different groups/play-styles across that time... Must have fumbled my moral-compass roll... repeatedly.
Because, you know, everyone who's been interacting with people for over 30 years has a reliable moral compass. Your age definitely proves that you know how people you've never met behave. Why didn't you bring it up sooner?
Your PCs don't walk the earth killing people and things and living off the proceeds?
By setting out to explore an area, or help someone, or defend against zombies or demons, or to arbitrate disputes, or solve mysteries. Along the way, sometimes folks give you tokens of appreciation for helping, or equipment to help you fend off demon attacks, or you find buried treasure, or you're simply paid for a job well done. More often than not I'll go through a multi-encounter session without killing a single free-willed creature.
And that's with my freaking battle cleric of Iomedae, to say nothing of my can't-we-all-be-friends sorceress.
Are you not playing Pathfinder?
Presumably I am, given that I'm speaking primarily from my experience in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
Perhaps you're the one "not playing Pathfinder". Perhaps you're playing AD&D with Pathfinder rules?
Like I said, your game is not the baseline, so don't judge my PCs based on your PCs' actions.
Repeat after me:"I am not the baseline. I am not the standard. I will not comment on universal defaults based on an assumption that everyone plays the game the same way as me."
Maybe your PCs "butcher people for a living"; fine. Don't assume mine do too.
That's how I play my characters: knowing that material-based DR exists (even if I don't know which creatures have what) and therefore cycling through weapons when I encounter it; knowing that swarms need to be hit with AoEs; knowing what holy water does; etc.
Apparently, they teach some people to start cycling through their anti-DR measures until damage starts getting through, while they teach others to make sure to keep using the same weapon no matter how ineffectual it is.
Just as a thought experiment, let's postulate a character with one of those abilities that lets him stand up from prone as a swift action. Such a character charges and gets tripped by an AoO. Can he stand as a swift action and still complete the charge ?
I'm not completely sure, but it sounds AWESOME. :D
This'll be a human Warpriest1/Wizard2/EK8.
Warpriest replaces the traditional fighter level, as it gets to be full-BAB with my primary weapon, gets me a couple of extra cantrips (and the ability to use cleric wands), boosts my will save, gets Weapon Focus for free (which I'd have ended up taking anyway), gets a couple of supernatural abilities 3/day, and gets proficiency with my deity's favored weapon (deity is Shizuru, favored weapon katana).
The wizard levels are Diviner, with the Scryer subschool for early entry into EK via the SLA ruling. I could go with only 1 wizard level, but a 2nd level gets me an additional spell slot sooner, along with +1 Will and a more usable duration for send senses, without disrupting BAB.
So here we go:
Level bumps go in STR and INT.
Traits: Magical Knack, Clever Wordplay (Diplomacy)
At early levels, I'll be using a scroll of mage armor if I think there's danger possible within the next hour, and then cast shield on the first round of combat if I think I need higher AC.
Once I hit 5th, mage armor comes from spell slots and my round 1 buff is a defensive illusion like mirror image or blur instead of shield.
Offensively, at low levels all that matters is having a STR bonus. ;) Power Attack keeps my melee damage up, and the Good blessing from warpriest effectively gives me half-holy 3/day for 1min at a time.
Later, once I have more spells available, I can spare slots for some key offensive spells, giving me the flexibility to pick and choose my party role (melee, range, support, etc.) according to the situation at hand.
I think I've got it pretty well refined already, but I wanted to submit it to public scrutiny anyway; feedback never hurts. :D
The Fox wrote:
Gimme a break, I've slept since then!
Getting back on track...
Most people use true strike purely for the "if I don't roll a 1, then I hit" effect, but the +20 on your attack roll can be more meaningful than that:
Bull rush (and a couple other maneuvers) care not only about whether or not you beat the target number, but by how much. Thus, if you use true strike on a bull rush and roll decently, you can launch your enemy as much as 20ft further than you're normally capable of.
Zach Williams wrote:
I'm not seeing how "be more lenient with errata-related retrains" leads to "people will be rebuilding their character for each and every scenario".
A few things:
First, what if you miss?
Second, how do you know that a hit embeds in the target rather than shredding through their arm and out the other side?
Third, ammunition is destroyed when it hits, likely meaning either (A) the target of silence no longer exists, or at least (B) there's nothing left to pull out, and whatever fragment carries the effect is now on the floor.
Hope they won't miss the invisibility purge, stone shape, and liberating command he had to sack to cast those. ;)
Here's a quote on the Take 10 mechanic from designer Sean K Reynolds:
"I'm not an athlete, but I can easily to a standing broad jump of 5-6 feet, over and over again without fail. It doesn't matter if I'm jumping over a piece of tape on the floor or a deep pit... I can make that jump. With a running start, it's even easier. If I were an adventurer, a 5-foot-diameter pit would be a trivial obstacle. Why waste game time making everyone roll to jump over the pit? Why not let them Take 10 and get on to something relevant to the adventure that's actually a threat, like a trap, monster, or shady NPC?
Let your players Take 10 unless they're in combat or they're distracted by something other than the task at hand."
Oh, here's one that I can't believe I haven't already posted:
Burst of radiance. It's a spell from Champions of Purity, and it's on several spell lists.
10ft-radius burst of light.
Reflex save or be blinded for 1d4 rounds.
And if you're evil, you take 1d4/level of untyped damage with no save.
The damage only works on evil targets, and it caps at 5d4—great candidate for Intensify Spell, though!
Oh, and the best thing is that it has the [good] descriptor, so finally there's a cool toy that the good guys can use while the Asmodeans look on, instead of vice-versa.
Skullford - Forgive me, I'm nub wrote:
Well in one instance someone picked up a wand from a wounded player then healed said player, who got up next round and used the wand on herself and the round after that the player who grabbed the wand earlier used the wand again, so basically two people were using one wand and all of this was done without any of them talking about giving wands to other people or move actions.
Well, people failing to follow the rules is not the fault of wands.
Skullford - Forgive me, I'm nub wrote:
It didn't help that half the people had wands and people where borrowing them from wounded pcs and then giving them back but not really so the games immersion fell apart quite a bit.
So a bunch of people whose job regularly puts them in danger decide to bring medical gear, and that breaks immersion for you? You lost me.
Skullford - Forgive me, I'm nub wrote:
Don't worry, by about 3rd-4th level, using a wand of CLW in combat is more likely to get someone killed than to save them. Your issue is more with the wonky nature of damage dice and the low HP pools at 1st-2nd level than it is with healing wands.
Those wands become a "patch up after the fight, don't touch 'em during combat" thing really fast.
Siege of the Diamond City:
Party's facing a Woundwyrm (big fiendish dragon) in the 10-11 subtier. With my tiefling cleric of Iomedae, I can't put out the kind of damage that our charging cavalier can, but I also know we'll need a Plan B if the dragon sticks a save-or-die against said cavalier.
So, already under the effects of air walk, I cast plane shift and then move, holding the charge.
On the dragon's turn, after having taken a huge chunk of damage from the cavalier, it casts a polymorph spell at said cavalier (who, fortunately, Nat-20's the save).
My turn, I need to deliver this plane shift ASAP. Unfortunately, the dragon is about 50ft away from me, so I can't move and touch. But you know what? Casters can deliver held charges through unarmed strikes or natural weapons, so I charge the dragon with the bite attack that I pretty much never use.
I dealt 21 damage (before DR).
I used a folio reroll against SR, and succeeded.
The dragon... made his save. :(