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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Isaac Zephyr wrote:
This is overlooking the fact that Solarians actually have a lot of tools to right these supposed problems. Photon-focused have such high mobility that they should rarely be in harm's way.

What is there in the Solarions tool kit that lets them move in and move out on the same round without standing there as a glass cannon begging to be full attacked? Or sucking up the AOO for moving in and out?

Quote:
I proved above a Graviton Solarian can have so much DR and ER that they really don't need Con investment.
That is a very heavy claim and you haven't come anywhere close to meeting it.

Going to have to agree. You can’t really prove anything without rolling a single die. You put together a build. That doesn’t really prove much. It’s all theory.


Isaac Zephyr wrote:

Solar Armor w/ Fire Resist,

Take Enchanced Resistance for DR = Level
Corona revelation for Cold Resist

Fire resistance doesn’t come into play until level 5 and at that point you could just get armor that gives you resistance. Pulse gloves aren’t as powerful as the solar weapon.

Also from a story point why not wrap both hands in your weapon instead of having the one?


Why not have your solar weapon be your fists?


Metaphysician wrote:
arguments that the Solarian has a 'feat tax' mainly make me think that this board is still suffering from way too much One True Way-ism.

This comment makes me think you skimmed this thread and aren’t really reading what people have written. People aren’t complaining about a “One True Way”. They are saying with a lack of skill points and how MAD the class is you have a feat tax because you have to buy certain feats.

If you want to be a melee fighter but want skills you are sacrificing Dex probably. Meaning you want to buy heavy pro.

If you want to be ranged solar armor you are going to buy long arm pro which costs 2 feats basically.

People also believe dipping in soldier is a good idea while others don’t.

Some want to change the mechanics while others don’t. Some even think the mechanics are just dumb.

I can understand countering points with discussion, but your comment doesn’t read that way. I mean are you playing a Solarian? Or are you a GM with ideas on how a Solarian should play or ways one can be good? Are we missing something?


Otaku: (in Japan) a young person who is obsessed with computers or particular aspects of popular culture to the detriment of their social skills.

So if you are working on a "closeted Otaku" you are working on a computer nerd like Ed from Cowboy Bebop.

It sounds like they want to create a theme around being an Otaku. Not looking for anime's that revolve around Space/Starfinder theme.


276556Dyrax wrote:

I'm working on a character who is a closeted Otaku and I wanted to created some themed animes that potentially are in the starfinder universe.

Any suggestions?

I don’t understand the question. Are you looking to create a theme or a character that is an Otaku?


You get more feats in Starfinder then you do in Pathfinder. If I were you I would go soldier and just get skill focus for diplomacy.


Isaac Zephyr wrote:
I know the insight bonuses don't stack. I went with full numbers though to demonstrate the gap in a lot of the instances where one class was supposed to be "good at x" and unless you poured everything into it, the Operative wins.

Well there is a million options then if you want to loop in ability scores and your issue would be player choice. Not a broken or unbalanced system.

I can make a hacker envoy and can get better roles than both the operative and mechanic. Doesn't mean that's always the case.

Isaac Zephyr wrote:
On paper, their bonuses are similar. However in just 1 level, Operative's Edge goes to +4 and everyone else's stays 3. There's a back and forth of Operative leads, to tied.

YES! This is everyone's point. If a class leads for a single level it doesn't matter. That's where the difference in ability points come into play. Not before. You are playing the game together. "One person isn't having fun." Well bring this up with the operative because he/she is the one that is deliberately trying to steal the thunder.

Isaac Zephyr wrote:
He had no role when dominated in all fields, and that same level the Operative would simultaneously get Elusive Hacker, followed by I imagine Speed Hacker at 6 due to the synergy with his build. Apples and oranges their abilities are comparable despite the differences.

You literally just named the only abilites the operative has the revolves around computer checks. It only has 2 which was my point earlier. The mechanic has more abilities and options to out play the operative. They are still the class you choose when you want to hack and be a techie character.

Distracting Hack
Hack Directory
Portable Power
Quick Patch
Quick Repair
Ghost Intrusion
Scoutbot
Saboteur

I'm going to tip my hat now because I see this is more a personal problem than a game problem. Nerf the operative for your game or tell your players to start playing nice.


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I'm sorry I didn't give clearer directions which made you write more. Let's get away from ability upgrades. Let's even throw the abilities out because with point buying they are useless. Plus if I wanted to nerf my class to make a point I could. Let's just look at the core class and what bonuses they have.

You mentioned having an exo-mechanic and hacker-operative. So looking below, am I missing something? These insight bonuses don't stack.

At level 10
Exo-Mechanic
4+int each level
Bypass computers and engineering +3 insight
Exocortex Skill focus +3 insight bonus

Hacker-Operative
8+int each level
Operatives edge +3 insight
Skill focus for computers and engineering +3 insight bonus

Those insight bonuses don't stack. So depending on how a person builds each will mean they are pretty neck and neck.

The thing that makes a class better or worst at something is their class abilities. Compare the operatives computer abilities vs the mechanics. The mechanic blows the operative out of the water with all the crazy Sh*t they can do. I mean Wireless Hack!?


Isaac Zephyr wrote:
When the Operative though is better at Medicine than the Mystic, Computers than the Technomancer, Engineering than the Mechanic, Acrobatics than the flier, Intimidate than the Vesk, etc. Unless someone maxed a skill (like I did Intimidate), then if it's on the Operative skill list, he's the best at it. Except is an instance where we're split up or limited in actions, the Operative gets to do it. And that's not really a gap that's going away.

How is the operative better when the insight bonuses don't stack? I think the only way this is getting tested is if you post the skills of the operative. I think someone is crossing and adding bonuses where they shouldn't. Max skill bonus is equal to class level. Insight bonuses do not stack. You mind posting your buddies skills or even make an operative in a comment and post the skills. Go with the level 10 again.


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Isaac Zephyr wrote:
Redundant though. We've played enough to get a grasp of the system and what our characters can do, however beyond myself and the GM I can't vouch for everyone having read the CRB and class options cover to cover. Our character creation session (which was our final Pathfinder session, early-May) we had general ideas of what we wanted to do. I had had an Exocortex mechanic made up as a test from my own time, but someone else wanted to play an Exocortex mechanic (same race and background option too. It was apparently a fun character idea) so I backed down and opted to play an Envoy. Since we needed a captain and I'm known for playing high-difficulty concept characters.

I thought I did too. When this game first came out there was a flood of these threads. I was one of the people complaining about the Operative as well. So I know where you are coming from. But Starfinder is very misleading for anyone coming from Pathfinder because you think the rules are the same so you assume on things and get something wrong because the slight change messes with all the numbers of a character. Now I don't want to say your concerns aren't valid because as soon as I do that you'll tune out. But what I will say is don't jump to conclusions and start comparing classes.

I would like to point out that your Operative was kind of messed up to pick Hacker when you already had a mechanic. Whateves at this point. Having overlap is fine but they went right for his role.

Isaac Zephyr wrote:
- Operative: See above. It was given the tools it had so that it could specialize without sacrificing anything. I dunno whether the other classes weren't considered or there wasn't enough playtesting, but you can have an entire party of Operatives and their feat choices can literally make a diverse party. Skill Synergy for Diplomacy, congrats you're an Envoy. Make a Dex + Str build with Heavy Armor Proficiency and you're a melee Soldier. Minor Psychic Power or Technomantic Dabbler and you're a Technomancer. Their downside is supposed to be limiting Trick Attack to Small Arms and Operative weapons, however you can play the class never making a trick attack and still have enough other options within the class to feel like a well rounded and over-powerful character.

-You could say the same for the soldier. They did this on purpose. You are no longer locked in a certain role.

-That's not how Envoys work
-That's not how Technomancers work
-I highly doubt you will ever get to level 19 so to bring up the 10d8 doesn't really matter. I have been playing tabletop games on and off for 14 years and have never got that high. So let's focus on an actual level. How about lvl10?

Operative Trick attack Average damage
2d4(CoronaLaserPistol)+5d8(TrickAttack)= 27 damage

Solarian Solar Weapon Average damage
3d6+2(PhotonAttuned)+5(PlamaStealth)+2d6(SolarCrystal)= 5d6+7 x 2(FullAttack) = 24-48 damage.

Now we can debate 3 points of damage for a single hit but if that Solar Weapon hits you twice you're toast. I also didn't add in the Solarians Str bonus. This gap only increases because the Solarian hits really hard for only using a single handed weapon.

Again, I did the same thing and went heavily on the OP side and I turned my opinion around when I did more reading and lots of number crunching.

Kvetchus wrote:
1. The Skill Focus feats are insight bonues and they do not stack with the operatives edge bonus because that, too, is an insight bonus. When the operative his level 6 (er..7?) and it's edge is now +3, those feat skill bonuses become obsolete. That's mitigated by the operator class skill that lets them take 10 at any time on skill focus skills however.

This is a big one people get wrong.


Did I miss where you wrote what level your party is or how many sessions you guys have played?


Robert Gooding wrote:
Her brother helped her make it

That’s what I thought. How I helped get my wife to be more comfortable is I made her recreate her character. She thought it would be weird but I told her I have had so many characters in her past it really doesn’t matter. Instead of being an operative she became a technomancer and likes it a lot better.

But if your daughter really likes her character and doesn’t want to change make her make the same character from scratch. Then make sure she understands her skills and what each one does. Since the skills do multiple different things she might not know what she can do. Maybe write the skills down on flash cards and write what the skills can do on them with DC checks. We did this with her spells and skills.

Then again like everyone else said it just might take time.


I play with my wife and she was this way. Let me ask you something, did you make her character? Or does she know what her character can do? I made this mistake. And too be honest my wife said just make her a character. I corrected this after a few games but there is difference when they make their own characters.


Grimm9903 wrote:
I was looking at an option for more spells to be available to the Mystic or Technomancer class so, I was wondering, if it would be better to allow access to the Pathfinder Wizard/Sorcerer spell list OR would it be better to convert a Sorcerer by basically just giving the Sorcerer class the Mystic skill set.

So other than the extra spells that have been released in the various adventure paths what other spells are you looking for? Starfinder did not convert a lot of spells over because a lot were made redundant with technology. Yes, shooting a fireball from your hands is awesome but why waste a spell slot on one when there are laser pistols? Essentially, Why spend years at magic school learning to cast fireball when you can buy a gun that does it in a sec?

Grimm9903 wrote:
My end result is to make a shock trooper style character that causes fear with illusions and mind affects to make it easier for the rest of the party to hit the enemies.

A Mindbreaker or Overlord Mystic would be able to to do this.

Personally I would not recommend converting over a sorcerer. I thought about it a lot when I first got the game, but I decided against it. I have always been more of a fan of sorcerers than wizards and having a charisma based caster was a nice idea. Until you realize Charisma kind of sucks. So why build a class around an attribute that is weaker in general than the other 2? Simple story telling can fill in any gaps.


So I grew up with the original saga. Where jedi’s didn’t have super powers and they were more like wise space sages. This seems a little over powered compared to the other archetypes in the game currently.

Side question: ever watch the plinkett reviews for the prequels on YouTube?


Brad Whittingham 241 wrote:
Rage (Ex) [1st Level]:

Wondering why we wouldn't just copy the mechanic over from Pathfinder?

Pathfinder CRB wrote:

A barbarian can call upon inner reserves of strength and ferocity, granting her additional combat prowess. Starting at 1st level, a barbarian can rage for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + her Constitution modifier. At each level after 1st, she can rage for 2 additional rounds. Temporary increases to Constitution, such as those gained from rage and spells like bear’s endurance, do not increase the total number of rounds that a barbarian can rage per day. A barbarian can enter rage as a free action. The total number of rounds of rage per day is renewed after resting for 8 hours, although these hours do not need to be consecutive.

While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points.(Change this to stamina) While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.

A barbarian can end her rage as a free action and is fatigued after rage for a number of rounds equal to 2 times the number of rounds spent in the rage. A barbarian cannot enter a new rage while fatigued or exhausted but can otherwise enter rage multiple times during a single encounter or combat. If a barbarian falls unconscious, her rage immediately ends, placing her in peril of death.


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Could you make this barbarian with an archtype instead of making an entire new class? When I think barbarian it mostly revolves around the rage mechanic.


First thing you want to do is read all of the power armor section so you aren't building something that doesn't work for your build.

ghostunderasheet wrote:
Blitz would get you an improved bonus to initiative and a +10 to land based speed, at third level weapon specialization and a gear boost.

Now having 10ft out of combat is nice but it's not going to help in power armor because power armor has it's own speed.

"CRB. Page 203" wrote:

Speed:

Rather than using your normal speed, the powered armor has a
maximum land speed of its own. In some cases, powered armor
has additional movement types as well.

If you aren't going to be using melee a lot I would pick another fighting style.

Question: What is your characters backstory? What's the concept? If you define that it might help us to narrow the search down.


JediJabroni wrote:
After my first game, it quickly became clear that computers and engineering skills were a little too redundant. With no guide to help characters stay in their lane, we were kinda tripping over each other. My Mechanic felt kinda useless.

It usually takes more than one game to understand a game so it's kind of frowned upon to change things right off the bat. I also wouldn't use the word "redundant" to describe "computers/engineering" skills in a future setting game. What was redundant was having 40 skills in pathfinder when you only needed about 20 to do everything. I think you are meta thinking too much. Typically you think of a character to play, create a back story and then build the character. Yes you talk with other players in your group and say, "Let's not make two mechanics." to avoid "redundancies". But your character should be able to act on it's own because you character existed before joining the group. If you look at space combat there are a lot of skills that do multiple things on a ship. So if you split up the skills you are making the skills weaker and you might not be able to perform another role if you need too.

Have you gotten to space combat yet?

JediJabroni wrote:
Mechanics (untrained - Class skill Envoy, Mechanic, Operative, Soldier, Technowizard) - Repair vehicles or tiny and small ships, detect/disable traps, craft/repair general tech

Repairing vehicles untrained is hard. Disabling traps when you aren't familiar with the trap is hard. I wouldn't use this.

JediJabroni wrote:
New skill to encourage characters to take something else. Just because it's the future doesn't mean EVERYONE knows computers and engineering.

That's why it's not a class skill for everyone. Not EVERYONE knows how to use computers.

Class that doesn't get computers: Mystic, Solarian, and Soldier.

Class that doesn't get engineering: Mystic and Solarian.

You don't get a lot of class skills in this game. That's why they cut the skills you can get in half. Turn to page 500 and check out the comparison between pathfinder and starfinder skills.

JediJabroni wrote:
Weapons Training (trained - Class skill Operative, Envoy, Soldier) - repair weapon in specified group, +1 hit per 2 ranks in skill

Weapon Focus gives you a plus +1 (+2 depending on things). If you want to give a bonus to repair weapons just give them that then making the players waste a skill point on a skill that is very limited.

JediJabroni wrote:

He countered with a much simpler solution...

In order to be able to do anything more complex with Computers, Engineering, or Medicine than general knowledge, accessing unsecured systems, basic repair, or first aid, you have to spend at least 1 rank in an appropriate Profession.

I didn't read this before I wrote my reply. I'm glad you guys didn't change the skills.


Haywire build generator wrote:
So now I want to try making some of my mains as Solarions. This would be easier if I played fighting games involving normal humanoids.

What fighting games do you play? Most fighting games I can think of has humanoids fighting.


stile9 wrote:
So when a solarian enters combat he can choose which mode to go into (graviton, photon, or unattuned).

When a solarian enters combat they choose either graviton or photon. Choosing unattuned basically acts as a reset if you want to change modes. You wouldn't choose unattuned at the start of a fight.

stile9 wrote:
Now, regardless of what mode he's in, that means he can still choose any of his manifestations to use(photon or graviton), just if he's in a particular mode the matching manifestations are more powerful. This is how I read it, so am I close to how this works or am I way off here?

You are correct in this statement. If you have ever played a fighting game think of the class in fighting game terms. Once you have spent 3 consecutive rounds in a mode(Photon or Graviton) you are fully attuned in that mode kind of like a super meter. While fully attuned, the powers of that mode are more powerful. You can then expend your energy (kind of like a super move in a fighting game) for a zenith power of that mode. Doing this makes you unattuned and the process starts over again.


RESURRECTION!


First p.518 for the index.
Searching... Nothing under batteries... Nothing for charges...
Ammunition has a bunch of page numbers.
Turn to p.168
**Bingo**


That is an intense wall of text. I read it and only responding to a few lines of text because it was a lot. This type of discussion should really be tackled around a table or over skype.

” FormerFiend” wrote:
There are a few things we're objectively lacking when it comes to spell casters in starfinder. Prepared casters, charisma based casters, and most notably, "full" casters, i.e., casters who's spell level goes up to 9th.

Why do we need prepared classes? Seems like it is on par with holding on to your VHS player when Bluray is already out. I don’t want to ever have to prepare a spell again. If I know a spell I should be able to cast it. It’s one of the reason why they took spell components out. “Why do I need to carry around a frog leg, some rabbit fur, and a apari claw to cast this spell? Just let me cast it!”

On Charisma: On the threads Charisma is regarded pretty universally as the weakest attribute. Why build a class around an attribute that barely contributes to the game? Look at the Mystic Overlord. The is focused around controlling people but uses wisdom as the key ability. Want to be pretty? Just describe yourself as pretty. It’s all just flair really.

” FormerFiend” wrote:
Barbarian

Easy soldier archetype. Archetype is built around the rage mechanic basically but functions similar to blitz.

” FormerFiend” wrote:
Monk/Ninja?/Brawler

Soldier (cybernetic fighter) or Solarian(StarMonk). Most people ignored this when I posted it on like 3 other threads. Want explanations on builds let me know.

” FormerFiend” wrote:
The next two are different takes on the same theme; pet classes. I like the mechanic but I feel thematically there needs to be a non-technological pet class to compliment it.

I could get behind this. THOUGH, if you wanted to make a Starfinder Ranger with a companion you could by using the mechanic class. Even going exocortex. Lvl 8 you can grab scout bots and just make a bunch of those while using a long arm or even sword should you choose. I made an NPC that functioned like Crow from Evolve.

” FormerFiend” wrote:
Likewise I feel there does need to be a nature based class that covers the biological pet compared to the mechanic's drone & the summoner/spiritualist's super natural creature. I'm not sure exactly how you design this class without making the xenodruid connection obsolete, but I also feel that xenodruid alone doesn't do enough to cover the nature-hero niche. While I felt that Starfinder was too sci fi to include the bard/skald classes, I also feel it's too high fantasy not to include the ranger & it's derivatives.

I think you are looking at blending Pathfinder and Starfinder too much. You seem to have a grasp of the Sstarfinder but keep getting anchored down by pathfinder themes.

Think about it like this. Technology has kind of killed the typically wizard/sorcerer who spends years in magic school trying to learn that light spell. Soldier says, "That’s nice but here's a flashlight." Here is an example of jobs that no longer exist because of technology. I see the old Wizard as a lamp lighter essentially. Even looking at examples in today’s society. Economists are saying a certain percentage of jobs we have now are going to be obsolete in a 10-15 years.

Example: Cavalier/Samurai. I know you said they shouldn’t be classes, but looking at today alone. There aren’t really samurai walking around. It’s kind of the same thing with the majority of the other classes listed.

Paizo isn’t going back to the super powerful “full casters” that were in Pathfinder. Not saying you are asking for them. Just saying for anyone still hoping for them.

I have read through the books for months now and changed my position many times about different things. You shouldn’t think of there is only being 7 classes. Multiple classes have multiple different ways you can build them. I could build you 5 different operatives/soldiers/mystics characters. Throw in multiple envoys, solarians, mechanics. You might know this, but if you haven’t talked

Disclaimer: If my response is a little confusing it’s probably because the post was so long. A lot to think about.


Hazrond wrote:
Well it wasn’t made for monsters. The conversion guide was for player characters as far as I understood it.

The paragraph he posted talks about converting monsters right?

johnlocke90 wrote:
Starfinder doesn’t use the concepts of flat-footed AC and touch AC, and instead breaks a character’s AC into two categories: Energy Armor Class (or EAC) and Kinetic Armor Class (or KAC). Weapons that deal energy damage (such as a laser pistol) target EAC, while weapons that deal physical damage (such as a longsword) target KAC. When converting a Pathfinder RPG monster to Starfinder, treat its normal AC as its KAC (if the monster functions in a combat role as defined on page 323 of the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary, add 1 to its KAC) and subtract 1 from its normal AC to obtain its EAC. You can ignore the flatfooted AC, because in Starfinder, flat-footed is simply a condition that applies a –2 penalty to both EAC and KAC regardless of the affected monster’s Dexterity bonus.

I'm saying instead of doing the math flip to page 129 in the Alien Archive, choose an array and CR and match the stats. It will take 5-10mins for a monster so you can focus on story telling. If you want to monster/villain to be more or less powerful edit to you hearts content.


Dracomicron wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Vesk have natural weapons, and are always considered armed. They threaten with their natural weapons.

I guess the question is whether or not they threaten with their natural weapons even if holding a ranged (or unwieldy) weapon in both/all arms. Right now it appears that they need to take a swift action to move a hand off their gun unless they have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat.

No, they are always considered armed. They don't need improved unarmed strike. I really think you guys are looking too much into this. Look at all the text instead focusing on like a word or two. You need to compare the vesk to other races that have natural weapons and not compare them to humans. Humans don't have natural attacks so we shouldn't compare them. Below are a few races that have natural attacks.

Formians wrote:
They can deal 1d3 lethal piercing damage with unarmed strikes, and those attacks don’t count as archaic.

Stringer

Nuars wrote:
They can deal 1d3 lethal piercing damage with unarmed strikes, and those attacks don’t count as archaic.

Horns

Reptoids wrote:
They can deal 1d3 lethal slashing damage with unarmed strikes, and the attack does not count as archaic.

Claws

Vesk wrote:
Vesk are always considered armed. They can deal 1d3 lethal damage with unarmed strikes and the attack doesn’t count as archaic.

And, wait one sec...?? Why doesn't the vesk have a damage type linked to their natural attack? It's because vesk have a mouth full of razor teeth, nasty looking claws and tail that you could whip someone. Piercing, Slashing, and Bludgeoning.

If a vesk is using a ranged weapon and shoot, the enemy gets an AOO. They the vesk is using a ranged weapon but use their bite (claws or tail) the enemy doesn't get an AOO. Does that make sense?


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Whats even better is that you don't need those rules at all because in the alien archive it gives basic monster stats which lets you convert a monster in like 5-10mins. But whateves.


David White 774 wrote:

Gonna throw in my 2cr on this since I'm currently boggled by this change in game mechanics (not the only one in Starfinder).

I dont see any real justification to change what Pathfinder has done just fine, in my opinion.

I will be looking into simply adding in the feats that help a player reduce the penalty for firing two weapons and allowing them to fire both during a round just like pathfinder.

However, with regards to extending that to characters with more pairs of limbs, I would suggest this requires more feats. You can duel wield with a -4 or take two feats that will reduce this to -2. If you want to use more limbs, then there are two feats that will allow additional pairs of limbs. OR simply state that its not possible due to the limitations of all the current races to process that information.

I'd really like to play that out and see just how bad it is?

I understand the knee jerk reaction to say, "Why are you changing things I liked!?" The reasons they changed certain rules have been stated in numerous blog posts and interviews. I too thought a lot of the rule changes were strange, but I did a lot of research before the game came out and their explanations made me rethink my stances.

If you want to change you change the math you are effectively unbalancing the game. Yes... it's going to be super awesome for someone with two pistols or even someone with multiple limbs, but what about someone with only one weapon? They are basically getting screwed because you feel someone fighting with multiple weapons has better accuracy than someone fighting with one weapon. It becomes a domino effect.


There has already been a few of these. Click this link for a bunch of threads for this topic


In my 10+ years of playing tabletop games I have never reached level 20 so I am not too concerned with what happens at higher levels.

Even if you are a level 20 computer programmer, weekly work is still only going to get you weekly income.


Oh I know the text. I was just asking for your thoughts. There really isn't 2 weapon fighting so attacking with the first solar dagger and then attacking with the second you are still at -4 for both attacks. Are you going by the book or looking for things someone would see when they start a fight with an NPC solarian?


VampByDay wrote:
So, we all know that solar weapons can take any form. They have to be wielded by one hand, but if we abstract it out to “at least one hand has to be free” we open ourselves up to a lot of creative ideas for what your solar weapon can be. The core book suggests a set of glowing tunes, here are just a few other ideas. Can you think of more?

So is this for society play? If not why limit it to one handed? I don't know why Paizo made it so that you can't have two solar weapons like double daggers (etc). I mean does it affect gameplay at all? If you open this up the possibilities are endless.


DJEternalDarkness wrote:

If they are reptiles and give egg birth, they don't, if you want them to have live birth (as there are some snakes that do that) they MAY, but I think that the snakes in question still don't have belly buttons...

EDIT TO ADD:
Even better:

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-reptile-equivalent-of-a-belly-button

The bellybutton on reptiles fuses, so I would say NO BELLY BUTTON on a Vesk. :)

This is what scientists do everyday. Comparing is the key to understanding. It's why most scientists believe birds and dinosaurs are related.


mr-ubik wrote:

- Perception as a class skill

- Cold Resistance per level
- +1 ST for a whole bunch of stuff
- Probably the best Resolve Refreshing for a Melee Solarian

| STR | DEX | CON | INT | WIS | CHAR
| 16 | 13 | 12 | 10 | 10 | 12

You can ignore the +1 attribute. +1 doesn't give you anything and how the game is built it rarely comes into play.

It's really there to help you give you an idea of where to go but don't feel funneled into anything because of the +1.

At this point the only thing +1 would boost would be Dex.


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This is the exact reason why I do not support anything on kickstarter. There are more horror stories and then good ones. Even reports of people taking the money they received and using it for other projects. Buyer beware. Especially at the $100 price tag they had.


The NPC arrays are the greatest thing Paizo has ever done in my opinion. I am the type of person who spends too much time making NPCs that die or don’t really matter. So having basic stats for a character of a certain CR makes games go faster. If you don’t like it then don’t use it. But to complain about a feature that you don’t have to use is pretty narrow minded in my opinion.

“It’s not fair the NPCs are made differently than PCs.” 1) Stop meta thinking. In a fight you shouldn’t know someone’s stats. 2) If you don’t like it don’t use it.


What is your definition of good, neutral, and bad? Like if I steal am I bad? If I kill am I bad? If I save my crew mate from death but he is essentially “evil” does that make me a bad guy by association?


3 bonus feats for the soldier
Lvl 1 feat
Lvl 3 feat
Lvl 5 feat
Lvl 7 feat.

Seems like they are all accounted for.


B


Kitsune Kune wrote:
I noticed you back-pedaled on your opinion, and it gives me hope for that. If you want a sample Operative build, then at what level? Also, what shall we compare it to? Someone who built a character specifically to be better at one or two skills? Or characters people built without the Operative present, for a standard campaign (or even organized play)?

Think of a cool concept. Something fun you would like to play as. My buddy chose a lashunta/operative that is a streamer. If I would make one I would pick a shirren/assassin that has little respect for life.

Make it at the key levels of 1, 5, 10, 15, 20?

Kitsune Kune wrote:
In the interest of truly pushing boundaries, perhaps we choose the levels before-hand, make a party of say, 4 other characters without an Operative, then see if an Operative can be built that can challenge all four of them. (Challenge will of course need to have an agreed upon definition.) Bonus points if said Operative can match or beat a specialist, and still provide a challenge to the others.

We could do either. I think the first one would be slightly funnier because you are making a character you would play instead of just comparing numbers.


Kitsune Kune wrote:
While the above statement is true, that is also something of a potential problem from my point of view. (I have not played in a game with an operative yet, so I will preface this with the DISCLAIMER that I cannot say from experience based on an operative in action.)

So if you look back at my posts I was heavily against the operative. I said a bunch of stuff that looked at the operative very narrowly. After actually seeing the operative in action at multiple levels I changed my opinion. Before judging the class and assuming I would challenge you to make an operative. Think of a theme, skills, and class features and post it here. Then we can break down what the operative is good at and if it consistently stays a top tier class at all levels.


Slippery shooter will also give you that bonus to AC. If you don't want to be an operative.


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I would like to delete all my comments because I was completely wrong about what I wrote. I just want to point out I had no idea what I was talking about. Operative does get a lot of skills compared to other classes but that is fine because they are skill monkeys. After the first few levels they level out and are pretty balanced. I am man enough to admit I can be wrong.


VampByDay wrote:
My problem with solarians as martial artists is that they only punch with one hand. Now, granted, I'm going to make one, but I'd like it if there was a build that let you knee, elbow, and kick (like the PF monk) instead of just boxing. Minor nitpick, I know, I know.

The only thing stopping you is your imagination. Instead of getting improved unarmed strike get quick draw and bam. Gauntlets on hands or feet.

VampByDay wrote:
And Ryphorians are . . . I guess just KINDA dog people. They've got fur and pointy dog ears, and I think the summerborn even have fur, though it is considerably shorter. I could be wrong, but the transitionals should also still have fur. I dunno, if you don't want to count them I totally see that.

Here is what the text says:

Alien Archive p. 96 wrote:
These humanoids have adapted to their unusual environment with a peculiar trimorphism: those generations born in the winter years (winterborn) manifest short fur and narrow eyes to protect against snow blindness, those born in the summer years (summerborn) have hairless skin in a variety of dark shades to protect them from the intense rays of the summer sun, and those born in the years between the extremes of summer and winter (transitional) have a blend of such traits.

The fur is because they are born during the winter so think more abominable snowman than dog. I am not too familiar with dog breeds but their eyes don't seem like dog ears. Which dog has ears like this? I am not seeing inuyasha ears here. The description says they have tiny feathers on them.


VampByDay wrote:

2) And it kind of bums me out that there are no viable builds for them in Starfinder. To be a punchy guy you either need to be a vesk (or other race with a natural attack) or you need to buy 'battlegloves.' Armor storm soldiers can't have their attacks count as magic (unless they get mystic strikes), Battlegloves are not operative weapons, and soldiers have better weapons to choose from. Not to mention all of those options are PUNCHING and not martial arts . . . y'know kicks shoulders, elbows and knees.

I don't care what the build IS. A soldier fighting style that allows your unarmed strikes to gain weapon fusions and not count as archaic . . . an operative specialization that lets you use battlegloves as operative weapons, maybe even a tai-chi type mystic connection that gives you martial arts skill. I just want the option.

I love martial artists too. I have mentioned in other threads that in the Alien Archive on P.150 Cybernetic allows a creature to add a ranged weapon to your limbs. I see no reason why it has to be JUST a ranged weapon and instead you could add battle gauntlets to your arms.

Poor Genos never gets any credit for being awesome. #JumpJets & #RocketPunches

Or
You could use Solarfists as a Solarian. In the book it says

CRB p.101 wrote:
Normal melee weapons like axes, swords, and spears are most common, but other shapes, such as a large rune of stellar energy, a mass of writhing energy tendrils, or an energized fist that fits over your own hand, are possible as well. Your solar weapon’s general design has no impact on its function, and doesn’t give the weapon any special abilities such as reach. Once you’ve selected the general design, you can’t change it until you gain a new solarian level.

So if having multiple weapons adds nothing but flare (Remember, multiple weapons don't give a bonus.) why not put the solar weapon over both fists? FLAMING FISTS? Pact worlds even adds E Solarian crystals, so LIGHTNING FISTS!! Ryu anyone!? I am down with the KungFu fighter. Just not down with a nonmodified unarmed fighter.

VampByDay wrote:
Dog people (Ryphorians)

Ryphorians are dog people? Did I miss this in the description somewhere? Are you saying this because winterborns are slightly furry? What about summerborn? Are they dogs too?


After reading this on p.87 it doesn't say anything about not provoking an attack of with your pistol if you are in melee range. Just checking, does it give you a pass or do you need something like Slippery Shooter (Feat) or uncanny shooter (Operative)? I am thinking no but that kind of blows if it doesn't.


Ravingdork wrote:
Go for the eyes Boo!

That's what I am saying. You need to punch something that isn't armored or you do less damage. Hence "archaic".

pandapeep wrote:
Because punching is always cool. Martial artists are /always/ cool. It's just how it is.

I love martial artists. That's why I have mentioned in other threads that in the Alien Archive on P.150 Cybernetic allows a creature to add a ranged weapon to your limbs. I see no reason why it has to be JUST a ranged weapon and instead you could add battle gauntlets to your arms.

Or
You could use Solarfists as a Solarian. In the book it says

CRB p.101 wrote:
Normal melee weapons like axes, swords, and spears are most common, but other shapes, such as a large rune of stellar energy, a mass of writhing energy tendrils, or an energized fist that fits over your own hand, are possible as well. Your solar weapon’s general design has no impact on its function, and doesn’t give the weapon any special abilities such as reach. Once you’ve selected the general design, you can’t change it until you gain a new solarian level.

So if having multiple weapons adds nothing but flare (Remember, multiple weapons don't give a bonus.) why not put the solar weapon over both fists? FLAMING FISTS? Pact worlds even adds E Solarian crystals, so LIGHTNING FISTS!! Ryu anyone!? I am down with the KungFu fighter. Just not down with a nonmodified unarmed fighter.


You lost me. I said basically create the NPC depending on the importance of its role in the game. Add extra spice to it if it is important but if it is a grunt use NPC graphs.

Does that make more sense now?


Depends on the purpose. If the NPC is going to die or not be important fast why spend a lot of time creating it?

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