I will not have the necessary arbitrating materials (my laptop) until around Sunday afternoon. I've run a number of busy and fun things these past few days.
I may update these pits soon, giving them some sort of description, but let's see how this goes.
BASHA, I apologize for the fact that you are not currently in a fight (and that I announced all of the names in capitals making yours seem less impressive). You're up next against the next person to fully submit a character, I'm trying to stick with eight pits for now.
The Pathfinder Pits are now recruiting! Simply read through the rules (under Campaign Information) and create a pit fighter to get started. For the time being, everyone who submits a legal character will be able to play. The first round of fights will be starting tomorrow, April 10th, so anyone who wants to be in on those should get their pit fighter together quickly. Don't worry if you can't make the first round, new fights should go up fairly frequently. If and when you have a character, please post once in this thread using your character's alias (even if you've already submitted a character to Pit Administration). Any questions related to recruitment or character creation may be asked here. Please make sure you've read the rules before asking.
Okay, okay, it's not totally done, but this should be a fairly finalized version of the character creation rules and introduction. Feedback appreciated. Will post more later.
THE PATHFINDER PITS
We've all seen the endless flame wars about the comparative power of different classes. We've seen the DPR Olympics and other optimization challenges, we've seen many broken builds and many people screeching their merits or detriments at one another all across the internet. It's time to put some of these theories to the test, and to have a bone-splinteringly good time doing so.
So welcome to the Pathfinder Pits!
WHAT IS THIS?
The Pathfinder Pits are a place for ongoing optimized play-by-post PvP. Everyone is welcome to create a character and jump on board, but only an elite few will ascend through the ranks, attaining much glory and bragging rights. The characters who join will be matched randomly against other characters of their level in single combat. Those who win gain reputation, advancing in wealth and level and generally being better than other people. Those who lose suffer a drop in reputation and are resurrected by the mysterious forces in control of the pits in order to redeem themselves or die (even more) trying.
I want to make it clear before you read any further that this is a hardcore sort of 'campaign'. You may have opportunities to role-play, and everyone should have some amount of backstory and flavor for their character, but if you're not also a powerful and versatile one-on-one combatant you may find yourself frustrated. That said, there's nothing to stop you from re-rolling as often as you'd like and jumping back into the pits with a better build, so go ahead and get creative!
The gameplay rules for the pits are as strict as I can make them, with the intent that nobody will have a victory taken from them by any sort of biased ruling or unnecessary house-rule. I want to keep all rules as close to the intended and accepted Pathfinder rules as possible, so that if someone else were to take over arbitration their rulings would be the same. This may mean you can't do some really cool thing because it's not technically in the rules, and for that I apologize, but when it comes to PvP the rules are quite important. As in Pathfinder Society, there is no crafting, teaching animals tricks, or leadership, but pretty much all other aspects of the game are left unchanged, giving players as much at their disposal as possible to create powerful characters.
If you plan on making a character and jumping in, I recommend at least scanning through the advancement and gameplay rules beforehand, to make sure everything will work as you expect it to once you're in the pits.
CREATING A PIT FIGHTER
Pit fighters begin at 3rd level. A player may only have a single character at each level at a given time, but feel free to retire a character and create a new one at any time. No matter your previous record in the arena, any new character starts at 3rd level. You may have multiple characters so long as none of them are the same level.
Only Paizo published material is allowed when creating a pit fighter. Anything used should be findable through The SRD, PRD, or Archives of Nethys (fills in some holes in the SRD). This is to allow an even playing field among those who own differing numbers of books. These regulations are in addition to any stricter restrictions on material below. If you have questions on something's legality, shoot me a PM. Please don't ask me about third party material, it's simply not allowed.
— Abilities
Pit fighters are created using 25 point buy. No score may be dropped lower than a 7 or boosted above an 18 before racial modifiers. A pit fighter may be of any (adult) age, but they take neither penalties nor gain bonuses for being old. Here is a nice place to fiddle with point buy.
— Races
Race can determine a great deal of what a pit fighter is capable of, especially at lower levels. I want for there to be as much room as possible to choose the perfect race for a given build, but some races are impractically unbalancing and are not allowed.
All classes, be they core, base, alternate, or prestige, are allowed in the pits. All archetypes are legal, and multiple archetypes may be stacked together provided they do not conflict in any way. Alternate classes may take archetypes from the class on which they were based (and vice versa), so long as they have each of the replaced abilities at the relevant level (a Ninja may take the Scout archetype, for example). As in Pathfinder Society gameplay, some classes are altered as a result of crafting, animal training, and leadership being disallowed.
Altered Classes:
Alchemists receive the Extra Bombs feat at 1st level instead of Brew Potion.
Cavaliers receive Skill Focus (Handle Animal) as a bonus feat instead of the Expert Trainer class feature.
Clerics with the Nobility domain get the Persuasive feat at 8th level instead of the Leadership feat.
Clerics with the Rune domain receive Spell Focus at first level instead of Scribe Scroll.
Druids with the Nobility domain get the Persuasive feat at 8th level instead of the Leadership feat.
Oracles with the Nature mystery receive animal growth as a bonus spell at 11th level instead of awaken.
Witches may not select the cauldron hex.
Wizards do not receive a bonus feat at 1st level.
— Feats and Traits
Item Creation, Performance, and Achievement feats are not allowed in the Pits. All other feats from legal sources are fair game. Campaign Traits are not allowed in the arena. Any other traits from legal sources should be fine, but keep in mind that there may be prerequisites that an arena character is incapable of fulfilling (pit fighters may not be members of the Pathfinder Society). Any feats or traits that require a certain place of origin or religious affiliation must be consistent with other feats, traits, and classes.
— Skills
There are no restrictions on skills or their usage in the arena, though those such as forgery or swim will be pretty useless in most situations. Any out of combat interaction between characters will be minimally regulated, so there may be more room here to make use of skills. Otherwise, keep in mind any prestige class prerequisites you may need to meet down the road.
— Alignment
There are no alignment restrictions in the pits. Though the killing of intelligent humanoids for reputation and profit is a fairly evil past time, defeating an enemy in one on one combat is somewhat more honorable than many methods, and hey, nobody stays dead.
— Hit Points
Pit fighters follow the Pathfinder Society method of hit point determination. Each character receives full hit points for their first level, and for each following level they receive half of their hit die, rounded up. This means that at each level after first a Wizard would gain 4 hit points, a Cleric 5, Fighter 6, and Barbarian 7. An animal companion or other non-player combatant receives one half of their hit die each level (including first), rounded down. Recalculate this hp at each new level.
— Equipment
Pit fighters begin with 4,500 gp of gear. Living creatures are not legal for purchase in the pits, and no living creature besides a player character may enter the arena with the exception of those gained through class features. A pit fighter may spend no more than 10% of his or her current wealth on consumable items, but there are no further restrictions on the percentage of wealth that may be spent on a given type of item or items. Keep in mind that past a certain threshold, consumable items that are used up in combat will permanently subtract from a character's wealth. See the Wealth section for more information on consumables.
— Character Submission
Any character is welcome in the arena, so long as they are mechanically legal. No character will be turned away for poor flavor or an unoptimized build, and as soon as a character is properly submitted and confirmed to be legal they will be put into the pool for fights. Keep in mind that the player is responsible for their character's legality. The characters will be reviewed when they are received, and anything the reviewer notices will need to be fixed before the character is accepted, but if the reviewer misses something that later makes a difference, the player is responsible (possibly suffering a fight loss and/or reputation penalty if things are screwed up too badly). Just double check your sheets, and you should be fine. but if there's anything you have a rules question on, send me a message. Here is the template for sending in a character . This should be filled out in plaintext and messaged to Pit Administration. Feel free to personally keep track of your character data wherever and however you choose, but for character submission the above template must be used. Each character must be resubmitted when changed in any way (primarily when leveling up), so keep a copy of the filled-out template to edit and send in when necessary. Hopefully Bungles is a good enough example for showing where to put information, but if you have any questions on the template, send me (not Administration) a message. Animal companions, familiars, eidolons, etc. should have their own stat block sent with their master's.
ADVANCEMENT
—Reputation
Instead of gaining experience for defeating foes, pit fighters go up in Reputation with each successful bout, and down in reputation upon failure (death). When one character kills another, he or she gains an amount of Reputation equal to the defeated foe's level. The beaten character loses an equal amount of Reputation. The number of equal-leveled opponents one needs to defeat to level up is always three, though losing fights between victories will drop your Reputation back down and require more total victories for advancement. The following chart shows the total amount of Reputation needed to advance from the given level. Remember, the amount of Reputation gained is always the opponent's level. Unless your character is challenging or being challenged by characters of different levels, this will stay quite simple.
Wealth in the pits is based only off of a character's current level. There is no change in wealth between fights unless a character has gained a new level from acquiring Reputation, or has used up wealth in combat. Wealth for each level is the average wealth for a character midway through that level based on the Pathfinder Wealth by Level Chart.
Pit Fighter Wealth by Level:
3rd 4,500 gp
4th 8,250 gp
5th 13,250 gp
6th 19,750 gp
7th 28,250 gp
8th 39,500 gp
9th 54,000 gp
10th 72,000 gp
11th 95,000 gp
12th 125,000 gp
As mentioned in character creation, a pit fighter may not spend more than 10% of his or her wealth on consumable items. If a character uses up consumables in a fight that do not exceed 5% of his or her total wealth, the expended wealth is reimbursed at the end of the fight. Anything used up over the 5% limit is forever subtracted from the gladiator's total wealth.
@Gin, yes you must fully kill your opponent, or at least incapacitate them to such an extent that they would be dead for all intents and purposes (such as permanent petrification).
Feel free to go create a thread and have at it, though you'll need to self-arbitrate in this case. Supposing you're each honest (and why shouldn't ye be, nothing's at stake) you can just pummel one another.
Also, people may want to hold off until I post full wealth rules, but here is the template for character submission. The template is set up for easy copy/pasting into a PM, and should be sent to Pit Administration when fully complete. The subject of the message should read [Player Name]'s Submission: [Character Name].
CLEARLY YOU ARE NOT BUSY ENOUGH WITH BLOODSHED AS YOUR MINDS ARE WANDERING TO RIDICULOUS PLACES WHERE THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING AND WILL ACCOMPLISH NOTHING.
I should start off by saying that I wrote up these rules for a Pathfinder Arena last year, before taking a long break from the forums, and I don't know how many ideas of this sort have come and gone since then. I saw the Arena of the Gods post, and it looks quite badass, but also a much more expansive (and likely more complex) sort of game. This one starts at level 1, with rules for progression through the levels, and a focus on preventing cries of foul when the spells and arrows start a-flyin'. I don't want to step on anyone's toes if there is some PvP of this type currently up and running, but if there's interest in this one I'll gladly see what I can do.
Anyways, the rules are by and large usable, if not always tidy, but original scope of the idea, which involved numerous fights and threads going on all the time, with just me to moderate them, would probably be too crazy if I ended up getting a lot of interest. To find out whether or not that interest is even something to worry about, I thought I'd post everything here, so you all can take a look at the ideas, tell me what's dumb, remind me that I've yet to actually draw out a map for the arena, and potentially mock up some characters to give it a test run.
The current rules for actual combat are a bit rough, as I'm still looking for a way to make awesome PvP happen without needing to rely too much on player/character seperation (since it's totally possible to get into the competitive spirit, even when you're not a jerk). I'd love any feedback and new ideas on how to run two players against one another without the DM (Arbiter in this case) having to post all of the necessary info to each from the other.
Below are the rules as they currently stand, please take them with a grain of salt, I am aware that some things need more work, especially the specifics on how the threads, matchmaking, and PbP combat will work. Also notably absent are the physical rules of the battles, including distance of combatants, terrain, visibility, and the particulars of the combat's start (entering through doors vs. standing in the middle of the arena waiting on someone to yell 'FIGHT'). I'm still working on coming up with fairly balanced ideas for these particulars, and I think there are other problems that need to be figured out first.
Rules:
CHARACTER CREATION
Generally speaking, everything on http://www.d20pfsrd.com that is not made by a third party and isn't a fan-creation/fan-conversion is legal. The exceptions are listed below. If it isn't mentioned here, it's legal, but if there is something you feel is truly questionable don't hesitate to ask. It's likely that there is something somewhere that really shouldn't be included, although I'm loath to straight up ban anything from core or the SRD without a very good reason. Characters must start at level 1.
Abilities:
Characters must be created using 25 point buy, with the standard ability score costs as detailed in the SRD. No scores may be reduced below 7 or raised above 18 prior to racial ability modifiers. Characters may be of any age, but this has no effect on ability scores.
Races:
All core Pathfinder races are allowed in Arena play, including additional race options, provided they are detailed in the SRD. Dragon Empire races are also allowed, as are the following monstrous races: Catfolk, Changeling, Dhampir, Goblin, Grippli, Kobold, Ratfolk, Vanara, and Vishkanya.
Classes:
All classes and archetypes on the SRD, including prestige classes, are allowed in Arena play. Multiple archetypes are fine so long as they do not overlap in any way. Certain classes have been altered due to item creation feats being disallowed. The class alterations are the same in Arena as they are in PFS with two exceptions: Antipaladins are allowed, and Wizards do not gain Spell Focus. If a Wizard is of an archetype that gives them Scribe Scroll (all besides Siege Mage and Spell Slinger, they simply lose the feat, with no compensation.
Feats:
All feats on the SRD that are not Item Creation, Performance, or Achievement feats and do not have Item Creation, Performance, or Achievement feats as prerequisites are legal for the time being, if anyone has specific concerns let me know. Performance feats are disallowed because in this arena the crowd has very little interaction with the combatants. This arena is a brutal place for brutal people to fight one another brutally, there is no place here for flashy showmanship; if you wish to impress the crowd, win.
Traits:
Be careful with traits, as a good number of them on the SRD are fan-creations/conversions. It's fine to take region specific traits, as long as they don't conflict with any other trait or feat prerequisites. Campaign specific traits and traits that increase player wealth are disallowed.
Skills:
There are no special provisions for skills in the arena, but keep in mind that many skills will be less useful in pit fighting than they would be in a dungeon crawl. It's quite unlikely that Swim or Forgery will be helpful for an arena character, although since there will be opportunity to speak with other characters outside of battle, skills such as Sense Motive and Bluff may find use. Keep in mind that in non-combat situations player characters are not treated the same as NPCs; you cannot use Diplomacy or Intimidate to force their attitude toward you to change, although the other character's player would likely work the skill check into their reaction. Intimidate can still be used in battle.
Gear:
Characters begin with 200gp in gear. There is no cap on individual item value.
NEW MECHANICS
Arena Freeze:
For reasons unknown, possibly due to the pressure of the situation, an arena combatant will occasionally become unresponsive and simply stop fighting in the middle of a bout. Anyone who does so is in danger of forfeiting the match. If 24 hours have elapsed since a character's player last posted, that character misses his or her turn due to mild arena freeze. The character acts as though they were stunned for one round (they do not actually gain the stunned condition). If a further 24 hours go by and the player still has not posted, the character automatically forfeits the match due to severe arena freeze. Arena freeze is intended to discourage drawn-out matches, not to penalize those who have lives. At the beginning of a match, if both players agree, they can choose to set the frequency with which they must post to avoid arena freeze (they can change it to whatever they agree on, higher or lower), or may also choose to eliminate it entirely. If there is disagreement between players, the default rule (24 hours) applies. If a player knows in advance they will be unable to post for more than 24 hours, they can let the Arbiter know with a least three days warning, in which case they will not suffer arena freeze. This may only happen once each match, although it really should only come up if a match goes on for much longer than expected. If you're planning on being away from the internet for an extended time, you should either be in a match with no arena freeze, or put your character in suspension until you get back.
Suspension:
If you don't want to be in the drawing for random matches, you need to put your character in suspension. A suspended character may not part of the Pairing, cannot challenge or be challenged by other characters, and may not have any other contact with active characters. In-game they are assumed to be on leave, medical or otherwise.
Active and Suspended Characters:
One player can have multiple characters, but no more than one of each character level may be active at any given time. If a character advances to a level that is the same as that of an active character controlled by the same player, the character is automatically suspended . More than one character of the same player may not be involved in a Team Battle, regardless of their levels or which side they are on. It's totally fine to activate and deactivate characters so you can try different combatants, there is no restriction on the total number of characters per player, only active ones. If you're among the first to gain a particular character level there may not be enough other characters at your level to fight, so go ahead and roll up a new guy while you wait for everyone else to catch up. You can also brag about it.
Team Battles:
Team battles are never randomly generated, they may only occur if combatants form teams of their own volition and challenge one another. There are more restrictions on team battles than normal fights: No combatant can take part in a team battle until 3rd level, and the teams must be equal in both team level and number of team members. Team level is decided by the highest level participant on the team, so a 3rd level, 4th level and 8th level combatant on one team would be an 8th level team with three team members, and would only be allowed to fight other 8/3 teams. Obviously the most effective teams will be all at the same character level, but having different levels on one team allows for flexibility in team building. The teams are in no way permanent, and since characters joining a team must be currently active, they will each be in the pool of combatants and will likely be pitted against one another in random battles anyways.
Vetoes:
Arena characters are meant to be high powered. This is a setting in which characters have trained specifically for arena fighting, likely for their entire lives, using whatever means necessary to be better than their opponents. There is therefore much more allowance for cramming cool combinations of abilities together with little role-playing explanation. Despite this high power level and encouragement of power-gaming, it is possible that a character could be created using the Arena rules that is so hopelessly broken compared to the competition that the Arbiter has no choice but to veto it. If this occurs, the player will receive an online high five for breaking the game, and the character will be put into suspension until the rules are revised to fix the problem. They will not be disqualified and the match will not be counted as a loss, they'll simply be withdrawn from the arena until stuff has been worked out, and their opponent will return to the Pairing. This veto power should only ever be invoked when the character is sincerely, completely, impossible to beat, even for a higher level character. Having 10 bastard sword attacks, +15 to all saves at level 8, or the ability to one-hit an equal leveled opponent are not grounds for vetoes. Those are the sorts of things that are expected in the arena. If the Arbiter needs to ask themselves if it's really necessary to veto a character, the answer is no, it's just to stop pun-pun levels of silliness. Players, for your part, keep the cosmically game-breaking silliness in theoretical optimization discussion, but feel free to break out the fairly large guns.
Victory Points:
After each battle, the winner receives Victory Points (VP). These are a measure of the progress in the arena that a character has made, and take the place of experience points for character advancement. When you accumulate enough VP to advance a level (see table below) you immediately advance, and you lose the amount of VP required to gain the level.
The amount of VP required to advance to the next level is equal to your current character level x 3. Each time you win a battle you receive VP equal to the character level of your defeated opponent, so three victories against an equal level opponent will gain you a level. If you lose a battle, you lose victory points equal to what the opponent gained. A character can never have negative VP or lose a level due to loss of VP.
Budget:
Wealth works somewhat differently in the arena than in an adventure campaign. Each character begins with 200 gp worth of items, and gains wealth only when he or she defeats an opponent. Traits that influence starting gold are not legal for Arena characters. A character's wealth is the upper limit on the value of items he or she may have. There are no restrictions on which items are purchased, and items can be traded back for their full price at any time. In the case of items with charges, they are resalable at a percentage of price equal to the percentage of charges left. The amount of wealth gained from each arena battle is based on the character level of the opponent, as shown below (your character level doesn't matter when determining winnings, only your opponent's). After each match, the victorious combatant receives an amount of gold based on their opponent's character level, as detailed below.
When a character loses a match, they lose wealth equal to the amount their opponent gains, to a minimum of 200 gp at first level, and to a minimum of the amount shown for each level on the Wealth by Level chart for higher level characters. If the character's wealth would be reduced below this amount, it simply stops there. The exception to this rule is when a player has spent money on an item that has lost value since he or she purchased it, such as a used scroll, a sundered sword, or a wand with half of its charges missing. In this case, the difference between amount payed and current value for that item is permanently subtracted from that player's minimum wealth. For example, if a character bought a scroll for 750 gp, and used it in a fight, the minimum gold he could have from then on would be the WBL for a character of his level, minus 750 gp. Gear can have a big influence on the outcome of a match, so it's important to keep track of each character's wealth. It would be a good idea to keep a running list of everything your character has bought and consumed, so nothing gets forgotten.
The Pairing:
All active characters not currently in a battle are randomly assigned an opponent of their level in a process known as The Pairing. The Pairing will only occur after three conditions are met: 24 hours have elapsed, there are at least six characters in the current pool of possible combatants, and of course the Arbiter has actually posted the Pairing.
Challenges:
As long as the last match a character was in was randomly assigned, that character may challenge or be challenged by another. Challenges work in the same way as paired matches, although in a Challenge it is possible for the level of the combatants to be unequal. Budget and VP gain and loss are based only on the character level of the loser, so a 1st level character gets no more reward for defeating a 3rd level opponent than a 4th level character would, although the 1st level character would benefit more from 1,500 gp and 4 VP. There is no difference in rules or rewards between paired battles and challenges.
The Actual Fighting:
Because a big part of the arena is keeping your opponent in the dark, and everyone posting in the same place loses some of this (what's the point of Spellcraft if you can just read their post and see what spell it is?), arena battles work differently from a normal PbP. In the gameplay threads the players will post actions for their characters as though they were a GM describing the actions of an NPC. The player should describe exactly what their opponent sees due to their actions, for example, instead of saying exactly what spell you just cast you would say "Rowan the White pulls something from a pouch on his belt, and shouts something unintelligible. There is no visible effect if it is a spell. He then runs forwards, drawing the sword at his side." The explicit mechanical actions for the round should be PMed to the Arbiter. For the above action you might send the following: "Standard Action: Cast True Strike on self; Move Action: Move 30 ft. forward to square E12; Free Action: Draw melee weapon during movement." Having both a mechanical explanation and a descriptive one allows the arbiter to have a very good idea of what the battle is looking like, and having opponents not see what their enemy is (mechanically) doing adds a level of fun that I've felt is missing when I've done PvP before. Because I don't want the Arbiter to be rolling the dice for the players, any dice that must be rolled in the battle should be rolled within your post and put in a spoiler tag labelled "Arbiter Information". Hopefully the opponent wont peek at this too much, but seeing your opponent's attack rolls or saves is less of a big deal, since this can be explained by observing how easily they shrug off a poison or shoot a bow. In instances when a roll absolutely needs to be made without a character's knowledge the Arbiter will simply roll for the player then proceed with those results.
THREADS
Recruitment:
This should always be open, the more players the merrier! If we get over a certain number of players I'll likely need one or more other Arbiters, but if this takes off I plan to run and maintain it as best I can throughout the whole year, and potentially beyond. So… If you enjoy the arena, don't hesitate to invite your friends and your PbP party members. Remember, the more competition there is the more satisfying it is to crush their bones to powder!
Discussion:
General discussion on everything to do with the arena. Here you can share your awesome arena stories out of character (without giving too much away, if possible), ask the Arbiter any questions you have (although if it's to do with your personal arena tactics you might want to send a PM instead), or just talk about whatever you please.
Gameplay:
The gameplay thread will be used for any and all non-combat interaction between characters. Since each of the characters lives at the arena, there are plenty of opportunities to have a conversation or intelligence-gathering meeting with another combatant. This is the place to form teams or friendships, taunt rivals, exchange information about enemy combatants, and generally enjoy what little role-playing the arena has to offer.
Other Threads:
So where do the actual fights happen? The players and Arbiter for any battle will be in a separate gameplay thread from the original post, where the fight can happen away from prying eyes.
Whew! If you read all of that, once you've voiced your polite complaints and constructive criticism, I think it would be fun to try out a mock game or two, for no permanent gain of VP or Budget. If you feel so inclined, PM me a 1st level character, and I'll set you up with someone to fight. This would be greatly helpful for seeing the problems with the current ideas and rules for the arena.
@ Sarf: Gatling is actually tiny due to a permanent Reduce Person spell, since custom items aren't allowed in the challenge.
I was wrong about monsters not using teleport, I had forgotten about the solar. Assuming that the balor uses his surprise round to leave and buff, what items/services exactly could he grab that would make ensure can defeat Gatling, keeping in mind that he only has a +1 unholy longsword, +1 flaming whip, and 41,000 gp in other stuff to barter with? Also, this means that if Gatling swaps out a few items (one of his wands and dropping the Belt of Physical Might for one of dex only), and gets a Helm of Teleportation, then in the round after the demon disappears he too can teleport, and go hire somebody to scry the area (letting him know when the demon comes back, so he can teleport right next to it) as well as getting buffed.
This is all just a thought exercise and a 'make a character who can _______' challenge, and the rules are arbitrary. Past a certain point, if we start looking at every conceivable possibility for winning, things get even more super-specific to these encounters than they already are (which is a lot) and much of the 'badass character' aspect is lost.
Fore example, if we assume that teleportation is legal for the balor, but not Gatling, it would be possible to take leadership with a maximized initiative diviner cohort, Gatling and he both with the Lookout teamwork feat, and Gatling with a Phase-locking gun. If that is the only way you believe Gatling would overcome the challenge, feel free to assume that build (he can drop the Distance and a +1 of enhancement for the Phase-Locking with no appreciable issues). I don't really like this because once leadership enters into it, it's a much different challenge. Like you and I agree, we need to assume some very arbitrary rules to make this interesting.
Edit: @ Lawful, The Vacuum has the Arcane bloodline, purely for the purpose of picking up the School Power bloodline power. Yes, he spent 4 feats and has a 17 in charisma purely for that +2 to necromancy DCs.
Gatling went Wild Rager 2 / Weapon Master 4 / Musket Master 14, as it's written in his description. If there's a prerequisite problem somewhere, let me know, it can probably be fixed since he has many feats with low requirements, full BAB progression, and he only needs to be viable at 20th level :P
Str 5 (7 base -2 size)
Dex 40 (18 base +4 race +5 level +5 manual +6 belt +2 size)
Con 20 (14 base +6 belt)
Int 9 (7 base, +2 ioun stone)
Wis 26 (16 base + 6 headband, +4 manual)
Cha 7
Rage
Rage Power: Reckless Abandon
Wild Fighting
Rapid Reloader
Grit
Gunslinger Initiative
Fast Musket
Lightning Reload
Weapon Training (Firearms)
50 Dry Load Cartridges 2,100
500 Paper Cartriges 6,000
+5 Haramaki 25,003
+5 Mithral Buckler 25,005
+5 Amulet of Nat. Armor 50,000
+4 Ring of Deflection 50,000
+5 Cloak of Resistance 25,000
+5 Distance D.B. Musket 72,000
+5 Dex Manual 137,000
+4 Wis Manual 110,000
+6 Wis Headband 36,000
+6 Belt of Physical Might 90,000
Rod of Absorption 50,000
Ring of Evasion 25,000
Ring of Freedom of Movement 40,000
Gloves of Dueling 15,000
Bracers of Falcon's Aim 4,000
Reduce Person 2,500
Crk. Pale Green Prism 4,000 +1 saves
Iridescent Spindle 18,000 breathing unnecessary
Dark Blue Rhomboid 10,000 Alertness
Flawed Crimson Sphere 16,000 +2 intelligence (and 20 UMD skill ranks)
Dusty Rose Prism 5,000 +1 AC
Crk. Dusty Rose Prism 500 +1 initiative
2x Wand of Dimension Door 42,000
Muleback Cords 1,000
861,108 gp out of 880,000 gp spent.
Attacks:
Double barrel musket fires twice with every attack, 4 base iterative attacks, 1 from haste, 1 from rapid shot, 1 from wild fighting, for a total of 14 bullets.
Alright, let's see how our 18 inch tall hero fares against the biggest and baddest of the bestiary. When he isn't in combat, Gatling makes sure to always have his Wand of Dimension door and his Rod of Absorption in his hands, dropping them for his double barreled musket (with Quick Draw) when needed.
Round 1: Gatling vs. The Shoggoth
Gatling wins initiative and uses his wand to dimension door into the shoggoth's squares, preventing it from trampling him. He automatically saves vs. the cacophony. The shoggoth takes its turn, but is unable to hit our intrepid hero without natural 20s. On Gatling's next turn he draws his musket (loaded with Dry-Load paper cartridges), clicks his heels together, rages, and unloads 14 rounds into the shoggoth's slimy face(s), for an average of 718 damage including DR. He's attacking vs. touch AC of 15, so he hits even with his lowest iterative. Flawless victory.
Round 2: Gatling vs. The Balor
The poor balor suffers the same problem that he he did vs. Jadis, which is his only spell-like capable of bypassing the Rod of Absorption (Fire Storm) is fully evaded on a 2 from Gatling. Since Gatling is flatfooted, the balor's best bet is to simply attack with his longsword +33, hitting on a 2, but he is unable to grapple due to Gatling's ring, and he doesn't do much damage without a full attack. Gatling wins initiative after the surprise round, drops his rod and wand for his gun, and raging hastily fires. The demon (touch AC 20) has no chance, and Gatling saves vs. its death throes on a 2.
Round 3: Gatling vs. The Pit Fiend
Gatling has darkvision, so he knows what he's aiming at. There is no surprise round, and even if Gatling gets a 5 while the pit fiend gets a 15, he'll go first. Gatling drops the rod and wand, draws his gun, activates his haste, gets mad, and shoots at the fiend's flatfooted AC of 29, hitting with enough shots (assuming he rolls all 5s) to deal around 585 damage, post DR.
Round 4: Gatling vs. The Linnorm
The linnorm gets a surprise round, during which its best bet is probably to use its breath weapon, which Gatling evades on a 2. Gatling wins initiative and fires back, using his normal routine as well as all 8 of his grit points to make his last 4 attacks hit vs. touch AC within 60 ft. Assuming he has rolled all 5s, this works out to a measly 548 after DR, still enough to KO the beasty. Gatling will succeed on his save vs. the death curse on a 5, but even if he fails this will have no impact on Beastmass overall.
Round 5: Gatling vs. The Dragon
This one initially seemed quite tricky, but it turned out that pumping perception was the way to go. With a +46 perception as a tiny creature vs. +40 and gargantuan, Gatling spots the dragon before it sees him, and uses his surprise round to Dimension Door (succeeding his UMD even in the case of a -2 from Frightful Presence) right onto its head. While this is alarming for the dragon, it does not have much time to be concerned as 14 bullets are fired directly into the top of its skull vs. touch AC 5. Gatling uses his second wand of Dimension Door to return safely to the ground.
Round 6: Gatling vs. The Solar
Gatling gets a surprise round, which he simply uses to run forward 20 feet. On his actual turn he does like does, and shoots the angel to death. Man these guys all have crap touch AC.
Round 7: Gatling vs. The Tarrasque
Gatling starts 20 ft. away, he uses his surprise round to yell gobliny insults and shoot once to get the beast's attention, since they are 6 size categories apart. This shot only does around 30 damage, but the 14 immediately afterwards total up to well over the tarrasque's full hp, knocking him out enough to not regain consciousness within the round. Gatling then pumps his remaining bullets into it, and goes off to find Limburger's tarrasque-beating orc posse, to whom he gives the rest of his worldly wealth, his life's purpose fulfilled.
Total resources used: 7 rounds of rage, 7 rounds of haste, 3 charges off of D.D. wands, 8 grit points, a whole lot of awesome.
Note: With a 19-20/x2 threat range, a x4 critical multiplier, and +4 to confirm criticals, Gatling's expected DPR is actually higher than presented in these examples. Here it doesn't matter at all, but it is quite badass.
Actually, double-checking the rod of absorption and the dispel magic rules, it looks like a GDM cast on any of your items would be absorbed by the rod, so you're in the clear there. To be absorbed by the rod the dispel would need to be single-targeted, but using the burst effect ignores magic items, so that doesn't work either. I'm pretty sure you can't even dispel the rod itself, since that activates it.
Gnarly, gnarly item, though probably at its best in this kind of optimization game.
andrew, in regards to the balor not having the spellcraft to know what items you have, it's specified in the rules that he has foreknowledge of the character's abilities. Given this, he'd probably use Greater Dispel Magic on the ring of freedom of movement during his surprise round, meaning if he ever gets a single attack in against Jadis (opportunity or otherwise) he can hit her with his whip (on a 7, assuming no PA or TWF), automatically getting a grapple attempt. He's by no means guaranteed this, but since he does succeed on an 11 vs. dragon's breath, we should at least look at it, especially since you had mentioned 'worst case scenario'. If he does get the attack off, at +33 CMB vs 30 CMD, this could be serious bad news bears, with Jadis needing a 52 or higher on her concentration check to cast a 9th level spell when grappled, and the balor not gaining the grappled condition.
Quite cool build though, much less of a one trick pony than The Vacuum.
EDIT: @ Lawful, The Vacuum's opposition schools don't matter, as he only needs his 7 mass suffocations, contingency, resist energy, and greater invisibility to do what he needs to. We can go with enchantment and illusion as opposition, in which case he simply prepared the invisibility with two spell slots to set up his contingency. In Pathfinder, especially with the number of spell slots a 20th level wizard with 40 int has to work with, opposition schools are rather negligible.
Woops, good points Lawful and Brotato, here are The Vacuum's fixed ability scores:
Str 7 (7 base, -6 age, +6 G.A.R.)
Dex 26 (14 base, +2 race -6 age, +6 G.A.R., +6 belt, +4 manual)
Con 13 (7 base, -6 age, +6 G.A.R, +6 belt.)
Int 40 (18 base +3 age +4 race +5 levels, +6 headband, +4 manual)
Wis 10 (7 base, +3 age)
Cha 17 (16 base, -2 race, +3 age)
Yes, the +4 racial is from the Fiendish Heritage trait, taking the +2 to Int. Note that these changed scores (-4 dex) have absolutely no effect on the results of Beastmass.
I just found a flaw in The Vacuum, he's got Spell Perfection with only 2 metamagic feats D:
This seemed very problematic at first, but actually he can just dump Greater Spell Penetration and still be able to hit through the tarrasque's SR on a 4, grabbing, I don't know, Piercing Spell or something with his 7th level feat.
And lantzkev, it does specifically say that the outsider or dragon needs to be evil, the point being that undead, demons, devils, evil dragons, etc. are super, super evil, and the paladin can crazy-smite them due to this increased evilitude.
As far as I can tell, AMF does not check SR when summoned monsters walk into it, only when it is cast on top of them. If this is not what it's supposed to do, the wording is pretty poor. Since this is the Pit Fiend, not the Balor, he isn't necessarily casting the AMF within 10 feet of the Eidolon. In that case I guess it depends on who wins initiative whether the spell resistance matters or not. In either case a Spellbane would just negate the whole problem.
A few questions @ Crosswind:
Were you factoring in Smite Evil on the shoggoth, dragon, tarrasque, or solar? None of those is evil, so they shouldn't have DR bypassed or take extra damage. I'm assuming the smite you mentioned is from the paladin, and not some other thing. Also, how did you keep the tarrasque down?
@ Crosswind, If only you were a real spellcaster you could cast Aroden's Spellbane :D
I had it on The Vacuum preventing Wish, Miracle, Disjunction, and AMF, but he didn't really need it so I dropped it for a 6th Reach Mass Suffocation. I guess it's possible you could pull it off with UMD, which would probably solve your AMF problems.
Also, point of interest, if all 7 monsters were somehow piled together so there was a piece of each within 30 ft. of the others, The Vacuum could conceivably suck the air out of all of them at once, with a single spell. Mass Suffocation is the coolest thing ever.
Alright, presenting The Vacuum. He's pretty damn squishy, but as best I can tell he can take down each of the big bads, one after another, with absolutely no rest, even assuming all of the bad guys get 15s on their rolls, and he gets 5s. He took some work, and there were several places where I may have made mistakes, so please give feedback. This might not be entirely in the spirit of the competition, but I think by the RAW of this challenge, The Vacuum succeeds.
(I started pumping reflex to evade the Balor's death throes, but realized it's not actually necessary for success, with 120 hp and protection from energy. He'll still evade on a 9 to complete the challenge with no damage taken assuming the average rolls.)
Gear:
Orange Prism Ioun Stone 30,000
Manual of Int +4 110,000
Manual of Dex +4 110,000
Robe of Archmagi 75,000
Headband of Int +6 36,000
Belt of Dex +6, Con +6 90,000
Ring of Evasion 25,000
Moon Circlet 25,000
5 Cracked Amber Spindles 17,000
Pale Green Prism (Cracked) 4,000
Pale Green Prism 30,000
552,000 gp spent, less spell costs (Contingency, Aroden's Spellbane)
Base 10 DC
Spell Perfection (doubles other feats' bonuses)
Spell Focus +2 DC
Greater Spell Focus +2 DC
Varisian Tattoo +2 CL
Bloatmage Initiate +2 CL
School Power +2 DC
Orange Prism Ioun Stone +1 CL
Moon Circlet (Full Moon) +2 CL
40 Intelligence +15 DC
Spell +9 DC
Spell Penetration +4 CL check for SR
Greater Spell Penetration +4 CL Check for SR
Robe of Archmagi +2 CL Check for SR
DC = 47, tarrasque fails on a 15 (17 within 30 ft.), balor on 17 (19 within 30 ft., gold, solar, linnorm, and pit fiend on 19 always.
CLC = +37 (succeeds on a 1 vs. anything)
The Vacuum is a very intelligent fellow, and though he undergoes the same challenge as One, he is much more in the know about his adversary's abilities, and has planned his spell list accordingly. Since he is smarter than One, and literally everything else that's not a deity, he also undertakes beastmass precisely when he means to, during the full moon, and knows when his first trial will begin. At dawn on the first day, when preparing spells, The Vacuum casts Greater Age Resistance, Overland Flight, and Ride the Waves, which each last 20 hours, enough for the whole day. He also has had prepared (since yesterday) a contingent spell of Greater Invisibility, with a trigger of him speaking the words 'suck it', in Abyssal.
Round 1: The Vacuum vs. The Shoggoth
With his water-breathing and swim speed, The Vacuum does not need to worry about anything other than the eldritch horror that will shortly charge him. He automatically goes first. I am assuming, based on One's actions, that The Vacuum is able to see and target the shoggoth, though it has some concealment. If he's unable to target it properly, he simply swims 20 ft. towards it and casts a quickened Hydraulic Torrent to shove the jellies out of the way 60 ft. in front of him, putting the beasty only 10 ft. behind jellies, where it can be hit with a Reach Mass Suffocation, which it will fail on a 19. The jelly rules specifically call out that they need to breathe, and suffocation damage is not fast-healed. One round in the shoggoth is unconscious, and The Vacuum swims off as it dies. One down.
Round 2: The Vacuum vs. The Demon
Here The Vacuum could encounter trouble, as he starts off within range of the Balor's melee weapons. He automatically wins initiative and can act before the Balor despite this being his surprise round thanks to the Diviner ability. If he goes straight for the kill-spell, however, he'll provoke an attack of opportunity, and he only gets one standard action, so no quickened spells allowed. Thankfully, The Vacuum has planned for this eventuality, and has intimate knowledge of the Rules of Engagement, specifically this line from the SRD: "You can't execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies." The Vacuum utters the phrase 'suck it', in Abyssal, as a free action, activating his Congingent Greater Invisibility, and allowing him to cast another of his Reach Mass Suffocation on the Balor, dropping it unconscious and then killing it. Since the Balor will be dead in 3 rounds, not instantly, The Vacuum teleport away to safety. but if this is not allowed he will simply cast a quickened (or even normal) Protection From Energy while the Balor dies, taking no damage from the Death Throes.
Round 3: The Vacuum vs. The Devil
The Vacuum starts 60 ft. away, he has darkvision, wins initiative, knocks out the Pit Fiend with his Reach Mass Suffocation. If necessary he casts light or something on an ioun stone to make sure he can see properly for his next engagement.
Round 4: The Vacuum vs. The Linnorm
The Linnorm gets a surprise round, but The Vacuum hijacks it. He casts his spell, the Linnorm is knocked out. The Vacuum isn't really even tired yet, so he decides to just continue on his quest with no rest. If he did rest, he could prepare another Contingent Spell Greater Invisibility, so he could start within 30 ft. of the tarrasque without provoking, giving the tarrasque a -2 on his fortitude save. For purposes of this theory-crafting, it won't matter, since the tarrasque fails on a 15.
Round 5: The Vacuum vs. The Dragon
The dragon likely wins the initiative, but it doesn't matter. With his Reach Spell, The Vacuum can suck the air out of it at 300 ft., which he does, using his Arcane Bond to save a spell. The Vacuum likely fails his will save vs. fear, but a -2 penalty to attack rolls and saves does not faze him in the slightest. The dragon crashes and then dies.
Round 6: The Vacuum vs. The Angel
Even at starting 300 ft. away with the Solar getting a surprise round, it would fall on a 19 fort. save like everything else. 40 ft. away with The Vacuum getting two rounds in a row, no sweat.
Round 7: The Vacuum vs. The Tarrasque
The only monster that really has any chance to save vs. The Vacuum, he still will only succeed on a 15 or higher, which is high enough for our purposes. If The Vacuum had a day to rest, the Tarrasque would need a 17 to save (due to his 8th level Diviner ability) , and The Vacuum would be able to get off two Suffocations, having re-prepared spells, one in the surprise round and one for normal initiative. A necessary roll of 15 is good enough for our purposes though, even if we go with alternating 10, 15, 5, or something, for rolls. The Tarrasque's SR of 36, the highest of the bunch, is also overcome even on a 1.
Rumple ignores any of the conversation concerning the map. He looks at Guts sharply as she speaks disparagingly of his all-important honor.
"Mish Gutspiller!" he says in a tone of haughty indignation "If you speak sick of mine honor in a second time the consekoo-, the counswak- the results will never be the same again ever." He stops talking as he isn't sure of what he's actually saying, but feels that he put up a pretty convincing argument as to why one shouldn't question his honor.
"And, Guts, my words always mean eggs sackedly what I want them." With these words he rides off, nose in the air.
I've written Rumple up as a "Rider", which is just my way of saying Gendarme (Cavalier archetype focused on mounted combat) without sounding pretentious and non-gobliny.
There will likely be other, goblinesque names for various abilities such as Challenge, or order powers. I just wanted to make sure there was no confusion regarding what stuff means.
