|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
Thanks for everyone's input, I'm definitely going to do something about Holy Candle (I won't remove it, but the effect will banish instead of bury) and I'll continue to think about Haste/Restoration.
Just to make it clear, I didn't say RoR was easy, that's just the impression I get from reading the forums for the past 4 months.
Having said that, I'm completed RoR solo up to Hooked Horror with Lini with very few problems, no deaths, and not even a failure, so that experience supports the theory.
Yes, if you finish an AP and you never fail a scenario, I consider that too easy. YMMV.
My understanding is that Jensen tweeted that there was going to be an eleventh season, but there hadn't been any official confirmation yet.
Really? They've been saying all season (even at the fan festival), that this would be the last season.
I guess we'll see. All things have to end, but I really like this show...
I have a group of friends that just started the RoR campaign.
The general consensus on the forums seems to be:
So my question is, do you think it would be more fun to play RoR if we removed these OP cards from the set?
Here's a list of potential cards to remove: Holy Candle, Haste, Restoration. Are there more?
Thanks for your input.
Oh, if it's solo play only I'm not as interested.
When they do multiplayer, they need to have a way of playing solo until the matchmaker finds other players. I've played some other games where you need to wait real time for other players, and it just kills the multiplayer aspect of the game, because no one wants to wait around for 5-20 minutes waiting for other players.
It's a home game so you can do whatever you like.
Having said that, I wouldn't add the cards from the class decks if you're doing a Rise of the Runelords campaign.
1) There are a lot of cards in there that have nothing to do with RoR (pirates, ships, etc).
2) Also, part of the challenge is working with the cards you're given. If you add in another 6 haste spells (just an example don't read too much into it), perhaps all of the sudden things might get too easy.
I think it's more fun to run it as intended personally, but YMMV.
If you only have 2 cards left in your deck as Ezren, you’re in trouble.
You’re forgetting about failing to recharge, which is not a guarantee with Ezren. Infinite loop is not so infinite…
In the rare case that this happens, I don’t think it really matters if Ezren views all the cards in the location with Augury.
Meh, why didn’t I just say +1 Hawk. :)
100% support characters aren’t for everyone, but I’m glad someone likes it. I’m sure most people like it when their characters get buffed and healed each turn. :) And it’s certainly a SAFER play style.
I play a lot of 6 player games though and in those games it’s very non-optimal if characters are losing their free explorations each turn and too many blessings are going to buffs. Some targeted buffing is good, a lot is bad.
Probably so she can explore faster. Amiri is a really slow character and weapons and items tend to get stuck in your hand with no way to cycle them out (beside burying them which also leaves you in a tough position later potentially).
Amiri needs all the help she can get and is by far my lowest rated character in RoR. I won't give her to new players anymore, too many players have already gotten upset with the lack of choice and things to do each round.
Agree, some of the card choices for the class decks are really odd (and poor) at times. You'd think with such a limited choice of cards that they'd be more custom for the characters in the deck. Sigh.
Having said that, as Ezren, I often trade my weapon to a character that needs it in turn 1. Non-spells ruin my cycle. So for me it's not a factor.
Someone mentioned Darago. Darago is just bad with the class deck (and probably with the base set as well). Two slots for weapons and 2 slots for armor are wasted on him, with no chance to gain proficiency in either. To add insult to injury he has bad Str and Dex. I'm not sure what the designers were thinking, but the only reason to play him is to nerf the table if you think OP is too easy. :)
Some things to consider.
As you adds allies and blessings, you will see your weapons less often and won't be able to depend on the recharge ability to boost you in combat. If you buff with blessings you'll be bleeding out more, but I suppose that's OK with Lini. I would upgrade blessings before allies, they're more universally useful.
Combat challenges automatically levels up by at least +1 per adventure and then scale up quickly from AP 3.
To me, I want characters to be good at their niche roles. If you can't do that what's the point? I've seen Amiri upgrade everything but STR and by AP 3 she loses a lot of combats. If you have a combat character that is no longer good at combat, it's a problem. IMHO.
1) It’s OK to help other characters, however it really hurts if you lose your free explore each turn (especially in a 6 person game, which will probably be the norm for organized play). You need to be able to explore at least once per round with a reasonable chance of success.
Also, I find that support characters aren’t always able to be supportive in every circumstance (or not as optimally as I’d like). For that reason I strongly prefer characters that are solid in solo play with some support.
If you know who you’re playing with, it makes a lot of sense to trade cards etc if it makes you better as a team. Unless you travel and play with the same people all the time, could be a problem with OP.
When I build characters for new players (I’ve introduced 8 people to the game and will introduce another 16 next month), I try not to make characters support-only, because of what I said above, but also because it’s boring for most people to play. Some support is good, all support is bad.
I’ve had some new players bummed out because they could only explore once per round (Amiri compared to a Seoni who can burn through her deck fast and explore multiple times per round).
2) As I said above, I don’t think playing a “support only” character is optimal (if you lose your free explore or have limited ability for success), so however Paizo balances the game is fine.
But at the end of the day, everyone is free to play however they like, there’s no right or wrong.
There are a LOT of characters that aren't supported properly by their class decks. Tarlin is just one, there are several class decks without enough appropriate weapons, items, attack spells, and cure spells. For that reason, the organized play characters are weaker than their campaign counterparts.
For Tarlin, there aren't enough good 2-handed weapons in the class deck. And yeah, thematically there should be swords, but I can overlook that or pretend it's a 2-handed sword. Mechanics are more of a problem imo. If Tarlin was playing RoR, he would have 4 good 2-handed (bladed) weapons at every stage of the adventure and you wouldn't need to consider using a quarterstaff after adventure 1 (or adventure 0 for that matter).
I guess they could errata it, but I highly doubt it. You either just live with it, play another character, or play the character in a non-OP game.
What he said. I also made everyone fairly deadly.
Especially Glorio, I made him a ninja (with greater invisibility trick), I know they are just going into this guns blazing and I want to punish that. I want them to need either Vimanda or Glorio (to defeat the other guy) and I want one of them to survive (ideally).
The first is a player that makes no attempt to create a unique persona for a character when sitting down to play. It gets to me when I ask, “Tell me about your character” and get told, “Dwarf Fighter.”
Totally agree with you, it’s very annoying. Having said that, while backstory is nice, it’s much more important for a character to have a fun and memorable personality.
Fellow players I know have created characters with awesome backstories… but when they play the character, they character is completely uninteresting or memorable.
Also, please keep in mind that nobody wants to hear your characters backstory. Or at least not all at once. A little bit sprinkled into the session is cool.
So when I make a character, I always think about how I want that character to act first. Backstory is second (and maybe not fleshed out at all until I get a feel for the character).
My second pet peeve is players who fail to role-play their characters appropriately, and GM’s who let these players get away with it.
Yeah, most players suck, I don’t know what to tell you. As a GM you can only coax so much… what are you going to do except not invite people back or play with a different group? Most players only play their character when it’s convenient for them… as soon as a logical choice becomes inconvenient, they choose the easy path. That’s why I don’t even bother with the alignment system anymore, just play your character however you want to play, at least it’s more organic and authentic and enjoyable.
She's overpowered, but it's a cooperative game. Don't play her, or change the power yourself if you don't like it. No need for errata.
Agree, do whatever you want in home games, but if you really believe that's true it still causes the following problems.
1) It's still a problem that RoR characters are allowed to be used in Organized Play. It's only a matter of time before the Druid Class Deck comes out.
2) That makes Heggal OP as well.
Wow, what weird timing, I was just about to post the same question. I'll just add it to this post.
I know it’s peculiar, but is it also possible to (automatically) fail to defeat a bane on purpose (by not trying)?
Lini walks a fine line between being overpowered and sucking. Lini would really suck if it was changed to recharge. I play Lini and there are times when Lini loses her animal ally and doesn't see it again for a very long time. If the ability were changed to recharge, the ability could hardly even be used.
I think Lini is definitely one of the strongest overall characters in RoR, but I'm not sure that's a reason to nerf. In adventures 4-6 there are other characters that are much more dominating imo.
Sorry, let me clarify, the (before and after encounter) damage was often typed, but not as combat or non-combat damage. I thoroughly read the rules and it never stated which damage type to assume. Obviously if the damage is coming from a barrier you can assume non-combat damage, but it's not as clear when coming from a monster/henchman/villain.
Does Gogmurt really work that way? I would assume since you failed a combat check that the damage would also be combat damage (with the fire trait).
Thanks for your response.
A number of monsters and henchmen do damage to you before and after combat and the damage type isn't specified. Is that damage combat or non-combat damage?
1) Enchantress (monster): Does 1 damage before the encounter and 1 damage after the encounter.
2) Blackfang (villain): Does damage before the encounter if you fail a check.
3) Poison trap (henchman): Does damage to all characters at the location if undefeated.
Is the damage assumed to be combat damage if it comes from a monster/henchman/villain? Or is the assumption that it's non-combat damage unless you fail the main check to defeat the bane?
First of all, all the characters are viable and can be used. There are only a few things characters need to do well: Combat, Acquire Boons, Explore several times per turn, Close Locations.
But if you want to make an easy-mode party in ROR, this is what I’d go with:
1) Lini: She can do everything and do it well. She explores quickly. She casts divine spells and cures. In short, she is overpowered and if you’re strictly talking about optimization, I don’t know how you leave her out.
2) Ezren: Powerful combat with the ability to recycle spells and explore quickly. Arcane spellcaster. Decent ability to acquire boons.
3) Seelah: Powerful combat, cure spell, and can dump cards to do everything well.
4) Either Valeros or Harsk or Lem: Good combat and most importantly good support for everyone else, but not effective at boons/barriers.
Reasons I would leave other characters out of an “optimal party”.
Kyra: It’s not that she’s bad, she’s just bad compared to Lini. One healer is enough, so she’s really unneeded. Not a fan of her power. Still, she is OK and you could have her in spot #4.
Sajan: He’s OK but he’s really weak in combat initially and will drain party resources. Has limited opportunity to explore because of his hand size and discarding to be effective at combat. Becomes more effective when roles and blessing upgrades are gained.
Merisiel: Best solo character and does everything well, but also has limited synergy with other characters. Still not a bad option and could replace Seelah (although I prefer Seelah).
Amiri: Good combat but extremely limited ability to close and acquire boons.
Seoni: I don’t find that she starts with enough spells in her hand to be as effective as other spell casters or as effective in combat compared to other characters. Limited ability to recharge means she’s extremely healer dependent and is a resource drain. Has died more than any other character because of her hand size.
But in the end it all comes down to this:
"Play whatever makes you happy"
You only "win" this game if you're having fun.
Some characters are harder than others, but I've played all of the characters solo in Blackfang and Brigadoom, and they're all capable. Some characters get stuck (and couldn't complete a scenario sometimes) but I never died.
Lini is my favorite character and I've soloed Lini all the way to the end of Burnt Offerings and found it fairly easy (she never gets stuck like other solo characters). Never came close to dying and I've finished some scenarios extremely fast (less than 10 turns). She is probably too powerful (and I've barely upgraded her), but I enjoy playing her none-the-less.
I started playing with 6 people and it was extremely painful learning the game with that table size. There was 30 minutes between turns. The game was not fun. If I didn't own the game, I probably wouldn't have played again.
It was only when we played a 3 player game (and later several solo games) that I felt the game was fun. The 3 player game felt easier than the 6 player game.
Solo I can finish a game in 30 minutes (sometimes as little as 10 minutes), with 2-3 players in 45-60 minutes, with 6 players it took 3 hours.
I'm sure once everyone gets quick with the game and knows their characters, 6 player games can be very fun, but not initially.
I'm guessing that's why they recommend 4 player games.
The PFS lawyers take care of everything. We're above the law.
Just because someone is in a rival organization (Shadow Lodge, Aspis, another criminal organization) doesn't give us the right to break and enter, assault with a deadly weapon or kill people, and then steal their stuff.
We'd get caught eventually, because let's face it, most scenarios the PCs make no attempts at covering up any evidence, or even wear a disguise when leaving the scene of the crime. That doesn't even take into account magic.
Murderous hobos pretty much sums it up.
Recently quit because I couldn't handle the bad music and sound effects. So super annoying and unpleasant.
The questing and storyline was also horrible of course, but I'm guessing most people don't care about that. Also, the game practically requires you to take a Diablo 3 view of the action in dungeons, hardly immersive.
Anyway, some people definitely like it and it has exceeded expectations, so that's cool. I want to like it, just can't do it.
The biggest thing about the game is this:
1) The questing is bad and it takes forever to level. For a lot of people, this just kills the game for them, sometimes even before level 10. It gets harder to level as you gain more levels.
2) The (levelling!) dungeons are extremely hard and unforgiving for the average player. If people are failing at the levelling dungeons (which are normally not that hard in most games), imagine how hard the end-cap dungeons and raids will be? Only the best of the best will be able to do them.
I predict this game will not do well in a few months due to it being too difficult. Every other game that I've seen that was difficult has eventually become a niche game. They will either dumb their game down or become niche imo.
OK, so it sounds like I should go ahead.
Balance changes have never bothered me in any game. What concerns me now is how you build your character. If you make a mistake when picking skills or abilities in your talent tree (or whatever the game calls it), are they mistakes you have to live with forever? Or do you just have to pay X gold to reset it (like Warcraft)? Are there dual specs (so you can be good at 2 roles)?
I thought you could only play any race in any faction is you pre-ordered? How is the Imperial Horse different from the Palamino horse (Palamino costs another $15)? Also, if I buy Imperial and a friend does not, do we still get the benefit of the rings of mara?
Your response helped a lot, thanks for your help!
I was pretty sure AD was going to be dominant with most players, with cats and elves. Gotta admit, kinda wanted to make a cat character... lol. But I will refrain.
Spoke to some friends and their objections were mostly silly things, like $$$, and bugs (they played the beta, what did you expect?). Some people should just avoid betas imo.
OK, I'll avoid starting for now. Let me know when it's OK to start if you could. Thanks.
I have a few questions about this game. I might start playing, but I’ve read mixed reviews. I’ve never played any other Elder Scrolls games, I only have second hand information.
1) Skills: As I understand it, in ESO your skills level up the more you use them.
My brother played Oblivion and he found that levelling your abilities was extremely tedious. At first he couldn’t hurt anything and was incompetent. He ended up levelling his bow skill by finding a glitched out animal (that couldn’t move and kill him) and he ended up firing 3000+ cheap arrows into it as target practice. 3 hours later he was “ok” (30/100?).
Is that the kind of stupid boring grind I’m looking at in this game as well? Or was he doing it wrong?
2) Enjoyment: Is it worth playing? Are the most annoying bugs fixed? How does it compare to other MMOs? Does it deserve the 6/10 that was given by Gamespot?
3) Computer: Do you need a new computer to enjoy this game or will a 2 year old (high end) computer do the trick?
4) Combat: Is combat acceptable or are the naysayer exaggerating?
In Oblivion you had to aim your ranged weapon crosshairs, is that still true? Is melee combat really difficult as well? If combat is difficult, is it at least rewarding?
5) How are the graphics? I’m not a fan of cartoon stuff now, especially coming from Secret World. Are there a variety of creature models? Or mostly humanoids running around?
6) Which race / alliance / class is the most popular? Is any alliance dominating in terms of population?
In early polls it was suggested that the Ebonheart was going to be the most popular, followed by Dominion and then Covenant. Is that true? (poll was for 5000 players, but there are 1 million subscribers).
The reason I ask is that when I started WoW I played a night elf hunter (because of my D&D background it was unique for me since I never play rangers), but it ended up being ridiculously overpopulated with LotR coming out a few months later.
I’ve also found that it’s more fun to play the underdog faction in other MMOs, especially in PVP. Parts of it suck, but queuing was always great.
7) PVP Servers: Are gank fests possible or is it fair? Do you need to make another toon to keep playing at times?
8) Subscribers: After the first month do they still have 1 million subscribers?
9) End Game: Do they have any end game content yet?
I think every game will have good endgame stuff if they have enough subscribers.
Thanks for your answers!
I have a number of friends trying this game, but I don't think I can get past the cartoon graphics. Warcraft got too cartoony and it's just not for me. Been there, done that, I strongly prefer "realistic" graphics now.
The combat is different, but I think ground and cone based heals won't be that fun for the healer, it will be stressful and annoying after awhile. I don't think anyone will want to heal. Either that or it will force the tank to not move, which is boring in it's own way.
The questing is horrible.
The big upside to this game is that the end game looks very complete and if they can get enough subscribers, the game should be successful.
So I've been playing this game for the last 6 months and it's been amazing. I play almost every day and it's been a great time.
Yes, to fully appreciate this game I think you need a good computer and GPU (or two).
The only problem I have with this game now is that content patches aren't coming out fast enough. Although Tokyo (which is a huge zone and a huge amount of content) is coming out in the next week or two, it's been 8 months since the last patch, which is really bad. It's un-motivating for new players (like me) and veteran players are getting fed up.
I'll continue playing but I'm going to start playing other games as well as I also wait for more content. We're all crossing our fingers hoping that Tokyo will be as awesome as they say.
I still think Secret World is a bargain at $30, it's one of the best MMOs I've ever played, especially the questing and adventure game aspect of it.