Jason Grubiak's page

I agree that changing the crunch is good if the game is easier and better..Its changing the fluff that kills it for me.

I open the FR novels and I read how Drizzt sleeps and has infravision and it annoys me because when 3rd edition came out elves dont sleep and drow see in B&W in the dark now.

Compared to the changes 4th edition is making those minor elf changes seems like nothing now. Elves are now distantly related to fey and they are related to Eladrins. Eladrins are celestials..How did they become the cousins of elves..or fey?

As far as we know the Blood War doesnt exist nor has it existed anymore....Thats a BIG change.
And Succubi are devils now and Erinyes never existed at all. So what does that do to Malcanthet? She's either an Archdevil now, still a Demon Lord but not the patron of Succubi...or the most likely answer..She doesnt exist.

It also seems like Teiflings are a PHB race now...I know people who play 3rd for years who said "whats a Teifling?" upon hearing this news. They are going from obscure Monster Manual creature to a creature that will likely be in half the adventuring parties come 4th edition because Im sure lots of people will want to play a guy with horns and demonic ancestry because thats "cool".

Its not just the rules...its the history and the feel thats being changed...People dont like that.

I'm sorry Erik, and I'm sure that you are more knowledgeable than I am due to your position and history in publishing, but do you really expect 4.0 to be anything but a substantial success for WotC?

Im not Erik obviously..nor am I very knowledgeable in the buisness...

But to answer your question...Yes. I think 4th edition does have a chance of not being successful.

4th edition is going to tear the current D&D community apart in terms of those who will convert to 4th and those who will remain with 3rd or just quit the hobby in frustration.

Now I obviously cannot poll the world of D&D players..but I think the amount of people who dont wish to convert compared to those who will is almost 50/50....Ok maybe 60/40 in favor of 4th.
Either way WotC is going to lose about a third of its players at least.

Now in order for the 4th edition to be successful WotC would need to pull in more NEW players to D&D than the amount of people they pushed away.
I dont know if thats a guaranteed possiblity.

Maybe I'm out of touch...but D&D players are getting older and older...and brand new players are becomming less and less common. If someone is brand new to the game its because older players invited them in.
I really am having a hard time picturing a group of people under 20 years of age, (not one of them has played D&D before) all buying the books and learning to play on their own. Not in this generation of video games and special effects.

You cant say with 100% certainty that WotC knows what they are doing..Remember they are not infallable and have released product that has failed (Dreamblade, Chainmail, the latest Star Wars miniature set haveing those square bases ect.)

I think 4th edition will cause more people to leave than draw more people in and bring D&D closer to its end....But thats just me.

There are large parts of the 3.5 SRD reprinted in Monte Cook's WoD with minor if any changes.

Really? Well then heck lets do this!!! :)

Is Paizo (or any company for that matter) really allowed to re-print the 3.5 core rulebooks and sell them?

If Pathfinder stayed 3.5 (please do) while WotC moved on to 4th...
Could Paizo really publish the "Pathfinder RPG Rulebooks" wich are basically the PHB, DMG and MM 3.5 but with Mind Flayers, Beholders ect removed and some new Pathfinder monsters inserted? And the gods and planes in the DMG changed to Pathfinder's?

I really doubt this would be allowed.

As WoTC has taken fairly large strides to make painfully clear, 3.5 and 4.0 are not going to be compatible or convertible (at least not without a lot of third party work).

I, and the guys I game with, each have between $900 and $2000 a piece invested in to soon-to-be outdated and unsupported material. As you may imagine, we are -slightly- put out by 4.0 (without even getting into the aspect of why WoTC feels they need to dumb down the game) and are definitely not switching over.

While I love paizo and would like to keep supporting y'all, I'd also like to know if pathfinder is going to stay 3.5, or dual publish as 3.5 and 4.0 every month.

Because I really don't much feel like buying another 9 months to a year and a half of a campaign world that will just be more obsolete material sitting on the shelf that will never be completed, so I need to know whether I can look forward to Pathfinder for 3.5, or cancel the subscription now.

My feelings exactly. Id hate to just have 2 Adventure paths and then the campaign setting go all funny and I drop out. It would be a huge shame.

Id like the consistancy and uniformity of Pathfinder being all 3.5 so I have something to still buy, play, and love after May 2008...
..or being all 4.0 so I can be sad but save my money...Not that Im expecting it..Just wishing outloud.

I just think if 4th edition is going to be so different from 3.5 then it will be like this weird cataclysmic event will grip the Pathfinder campaign world when the dreaded swich happens.

Jason Grubiak wrote:

If its overwhelmingly "Yes I wish to go to 4th edition"...So be it.

I was think this last night. Paizo is actually in an interesting position as far as 3.5e/4e goes. If the decision is made to switch pathfinder over to 4e is made, they could still make standalone 3.5e gamemastery adventures for those that do not want to switch (at least as long as it is profitable for them to do so).

They could actually work both markets if the profit is there. Frankly, I miss the days of when TSR published a bunch of standalone modules.

Im Ok with them doing this..But in reverse..Pathfinder should remain 3.5 and GameMastery moduals should convert.

Since Pathfinder is the ongoing world it would be strange to have this world just...change.
And certain classes would pop out of existance and the way magic works would change and whatever else would happen if a campaign world changes from 3rd to 4th edition.

With individual moduals it would be OK since each one is a self contained story..Heck the 4th edition Moduals, once they are written, could take place in another new campaign world created by Paizo and leave Pathfinder's world untuched by this change.

Its way to early for Paizo to do this now of course, but...

I feel as the 2nd Adventure Path is drawing to a close..all subscribers should get an e-mail inviting us to go to Paizo's site and take a poll as to wether or not to convert.

If its overwhelmingly "Yes I wish to go to 4th edition"...So be it.

Its funny how so many people say they dont want to support WotC anymore and they will only buy the core books if Pathfinder converts.

If Pathfinder doesnt convert you wont have to give WotC a dime!!!!

Sound good?....Anyone?....Aw c'mon!!

:)

Id like to know how each adventure path ties into the next...Or if it does at all.

Will each path be a seperate story on the other side of the campaign world....Or will events that take place in AP1 have an effect on the events that happen in AP2?

As a hypothetical example..The PCs have to open an old temple that has been sealed in AP1...And the PCs find some artifact and use it in AP2...and the PCs kill some demon lord in AP3....These events chain the awakening of some dead god in AP4.

Will they be linked in this way or be self contained?

But I can see your point. Other people shouldn't get something they would use if you don't like it.

Thats kind of unfair sarcasm...

No one should rant against something they dont like that other people do if doesnt effect them. They just shouldnt buy it and let those who do want it have fun. That just curtesy.

BUT...it is different when that something that other people would use cuts in on or eliminates what you like. Then you have the right to speak your mind.

Duncan Clyborne wrote:

My theory is that Paizo will stay 3.5 for awhile. Then after the DI takes off a bit, they will continue publishing the Pathfinder hardcopy product in 3.5, but sell a 4.0 digital product through WotC.

I think this is a good idea.

I (for one) would like to roll real dice, move actual NOT virtual miniatures on a game table, and have complete control of character generation and access to my characters. The D&D I want to continue playing is around a table with others with tangible objects, not manipulating icons using a keyboard or mouse over a network with "voice chat" or "text chat."

I know Wizards isn't listening, but I have confidence that Paizo is and will continue to listen.

4th edition doesnt REQUIRE computers..So Pathfinder can still be books and real paper and dice and use 4th edition rules without needing a laptop.

Id love Pathfinder to offer both versions to appeal to those who want whichever version..That would be the best scenario..But they would have to stat out each encounter twice and print 2 different versions of the books...Its kind of unlikely.

I'll still stick with my vote being 3.5. An adventure path/campaign world should'nt change editions mid-run.

Honestly since I dont plan on getting 4th edition I'll have to say goodby to Pathfinder if it converts. :(
Can I at least beg to have the 1st THREE adventure paths be 3.5 before I go? PLEASE???

Jason Grubiak wrote:

Even the Chromatic and Metallic dragons looks cosmetically different...Which I think is a huge mistake.

Wait.... those bastards did away with Lockwood's dragons?!?! AARRRRRGH!

Well the Red Dragon of the Dungeon Masters guide looks the same...sort of.

but the Green Dragon on the cover of the Miniature starter set look weird..has this odd looking booger on his nose.

So yeah Lockwoods Dragons have been tampered with...Very sad. I kind of wanted all 10 True Dragons in Gargantual form as those Icon miniatures...Or at least all 5 Chromatics...Now they wont look right. :(

I really liked the issue. the Myteries and the Tarrasque article ruled.

I just didnt care for the cover art at all...It was too....2nd Edition.

And the poster I didnt like..It was the old art from Incursion..You couldnt create new art for the last issue?

My only caveat: I will not be happy if they recycle 3/3.5e art...

They wont...4th edition looks really different.

Beholders seem to have fleshy mustaches like acatfish...and Trolls are muscular and stocky like ogres..No longer are they thin with warty hides and corded muscles.

Even the Chomatic and Metallic dragons looks cosmetically different...Which I think is a huge mistake.

Any idea when we will get an unofficial-official word from Eric or James on all this? After the Con?

Im guessing once that countdown clock runs down (should be about now) and the 4th edition scoop is official then the folks at Paizo can tell us what is going to happen to Pathfinder and GameMastery moduals.

Its funny....Im more concerned about the fate of Pathfinder possibly converting (please dont) than I am WotC books converting.

I hope the Paizo people can speak up about the whats going to happen with their products immediatly after WotC gives its offical announcement today after that countdown clock hits Zero on their site.

One potential positive: as it stands, the last of the 4e core rulebooks releases in July '08, which happens to coincide with the end of the second Pathfinder arc. So, if an SRD is available to Paizo beforehand, they may be able to start the third arc in August '08 on the verge of the next GenCon in the first full month when everyone has all three new core books. A very strong selling point for Paizo, if they can do it!

True...but I still hope they stay 3.5

Anyway I thought us "oldsters" were called Grognards..Or is that reserved for 1st Edition oldsters?

I think folks may be missing something here. Now, I'm not up on the OGL and D20 licensing, but I don't think WotC is under any obligation to update the SRDs to 4E. It's entirely possible that WotC will not extend the OGL to 4E.

This would explain WotC pulling in their product licensing. It would also explain Paizo going the OGL route with Gamemastery and Pathfinder, since they can continue publishing material for D&D.

And this is what Im really hoping for the most personally. Since I dont plan on gettign 4th edition I dont want to see Pathfinder, GameMastery (or Dungeon Crawl Classics by Goodman Games for that matter) convert.

Please stay 3.5!!!

Never posted here but here goes...

I have so much 3rd Edition material that there is no way I will be converting to 4th Edition.

What I would really love to see is GameMastery Moduals and Pathfinder remaining 3.5.

I wouldnt be getting any more Wizards of the Coast books but I would still have Paizo's stuff to look foward to.

Whats the chance of that happening?