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Sure, why not. Tenthed.


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I'd certainly like for it to stop working in those particular conditions when I put a phaselocking railgun slug through their foreheads, that's for sure.

"lol DC 14 reflex half that can never be raised on weapons you can't even fire once let alone afford till at least level 10 lol" Is rather insulting as well. That kind of thing should never even have to make it to playtesting before getting caught, let alone printed as-is. Someone should've been smacked upside the head and quite clearly was not.


Naal wrote:
Axis could devise a better system, but Hell is going to be better at selling their system to the mortals.

I dunno, I mean, Axis could just chuck itself straight at the planet to get its point across...


It's in the same vein as the temporary non-phaselockable teleportation that characters with evasion perform when dodging a reflex-half in the middle of an empty room with no exits.


Actually what would help is less binary status effects, and stacking rather than entirely separate ones.

Rather than a spell that paralyzes the target and thus either never works or instantly ends the entire encounter, have it be a progression with slow. Rather than instantly winning low level battles with sleep, have it run through fatigue,etc.

When you're significantly more powerful than the target, or specialize i that effect type, or they're particularly vulnerable, or maybe if you crit, you can go much faster through the stack, but it helps ensure that you don't have the 1/0 problem of "I-Win button vs completely worthless waste of time.
Even resistances/immunities can be tuned much better this way. Take Fatigue>>Exhaustion>>Sleep for example:
Someone immune to fatigue may very well simply be allowed to operate until exhaustion without the penalties.
Someone immune to exhaustion but not fatigue may have a higher 'red zone' where they've been fatigued for a while but keep going with the same penalties until they finally drop.
Resistance could give a buffer by one 'step' or the like in addition-to or instead of better saves.

This also gives a chance to things like poisons, which tend to either be instantaneous death or outright ignored as never having a point by PCs; if you can *stack* poison to shorten the frequency without shortening the total time (in other words it ticks more and more often), kinda like FFXIII did it, it could work well.


Should be more than 4 if you're spending all day training various skills and *not* studying magic for twice the starting age modifiers...


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Outside the US, though, it's the exact opposite.
The GM goes "that's ten miles away" and people kinda blank for a second, then try to figure out what that equates to. Can't even really picture a 50ft rope, we just have it marked down because that's the item, and the GM will always tell you either that's enough or you'd need 2 or 3 of them put end to end. You've got reason to believe he'd say that no matter how long they were, but he'll catch on if you buy string.

It's 15.24 meters by the way. They're usually more likely found in 20 meter lengths if sold here.

Grams are nice and precise and really easy to scale up for large batches.


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That's how the rest of the world feels about imperial.
"What the hell is that 113? Above boiling??? No wait, USA." And then we have to subtract 32 and divide the result by 1.8. OH. It's 45.


Even the cheap thermometer function on my father's flipphone has decimals, though.

So, I mean, it's not like you aren't able to divide each degree in at least ten with even old crap from radioshack.


And, somehow, you think that temperatures going from 18-35C in summer and -5 to -40 in winter are... somehow *not* showing any nuance or indication of danger in any way?


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ryric wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

To much of the world that's exactly how imperial units read like nowadays.


Yes, I said that already. You can buy the real 25mm battlemats. You can go get one in montreal, but you need to check carefully because there'll be 1" in there just as often mixed in since most of them come from the US (shipping costs after all). Last time I bought one the only visible difference without grabbing a ruler was that one of them said 25mm (1") and the other said 1" (25mm).

But like I said, battlemats keep imperial usable; it's when you're not using a mat that metric becomes that much more valuable.

BTW; 1.5m is more often used as that's 4.92ft, as opposed to 2m (6.56)


The regular 1" battlemat IS effectively a 25mm battlemat. You get a teeny bit of leeway (1mm every 2.5th square/hex) because it's not perfect, but for most purposes since you're counting square/hex spaces rather than true distances it does the job. 'real' ones are also available of course, and honestly you won't be able to tell the difference if playing pathfinder, so it's really a matter of proper measures.

Your minis will fit no problem, which is why we tolerate the american mats up here (pathfinder keeps to "5x = 1 square, so just divide by 5 and count the squares"), but will use proper metric measurements without one like if playing battlefleet gothic or infinity or something.

The conversion is particularly healthy when dealing with travel distances or long firing ranges, as it's always 10, 10, 10


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Well firstly, 1" is just a teeny bit above 2.5cm (it's 25.4mm), so for most gaming purposes that need a battlemat you're fine. We use feet when we must since it doesn't matter too much as long as you stick to JUST feet, like on a battlemat playing pathfinder (5 per square, and all measures divisible into 5' squares anyways)

Squares will usually represent 1m (bit over 3.2') when in metric games at the personal scale. Larger tactical scales usually use hexes and will usually have their own value, like, say, 50m (Heavy Gear regular combat scale), or 250m (HG air combat scale) or 500m (space).

The big advantage is that no matter what conversion in metric is always mindlessly simple, even if you're trying to figure things out between two completely different scales. Also great is that something like a 1m-across 'square' makes two guys dagger-fighting a bit less silly in adjacent squares, as well as one's zone of control to prevent people from rushing by you.


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Canada mostly just uses imperial because one of our largest trading partners insists on it. It's almost entirely metric, except when your aunt exclaims she lost a whole 40 pounds (as opposed to that time she gained a mere 20kg) or when you get something that's obviously meant for the US market because we all look alike to Chinese manufacturers.

All the official measurements are in metric and have been for some time.


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"We don't want to change therefore we're right" is... sad.


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Franz Lunzer wrote:
You do realize that the majority of the players are used to the imperial system? (Don't call it gibberish, please. It's not that hard for one-dimensional units.

Is the majority of players actually fully just the US? Because most of the people I play with are ... well... not. I think one guy on roll20's American?

Now let me show you some real gibberish!

1 foot is 12 inches. 3 feet is 1 yard. 22 yards is 1 chain. 1 furlong is 10 chains. 1 mile is 8 furlongs or 5280 feet.

1 fathom is 6.08 feet. Too clear? Alright, it's 2.02667 yards. YEAH. 100 of those makes a cable! And 10 cables makes a nautical mile. What? Yes, The normal mile wasn't boaty enough, so it's 6080 feet not 5280. But that's not good enough for the british navy (at least the americans didn't take that one with them): Nay, a fathom has to be 6 feet... despite the rest of those calculations! AWWWIGHT! YEAH! LOGIIIIC!

Mmmmmm... Base-10 measurements...


Those victims of a retro-chronal causation looking for their home like little lost puppies, yes.

It would be a real tearjerker if they weren't dimension-eating planetbusters that assimilate entire ecosystems just from being thought about too close.


Mid-Level. Teleport is a 6th level spell. You can certainly afford a Teleport Without Error scroll or the like at least once per adventure, or at worst at level 11 the appropriate classes can hand-cast the regular 'port themselves. There's also double-planeshifting, once you've got a proper focus to start up. It's slot-heavy, but available from 9th.

You wanna lock down the shenanigans, I don't disagree; but "beam down to the planet" first needs "snap fingers, bit of garnish, done" out of the way before the problem's actually taken care of, especially if it happens to be expensive (WBL was a bigger gatekeeper than caster level often enough for such utilities)


As long as it can be done magically ('compatibility' as a drawback, one might say) then having full-fledged transporter rooms and replicators (same tech after all) is really not an issue, since at least those are already more restricted by "it's on the ship".

As long as someone can just finger themselves and wave a wand, there being a technological version is not much of a problem.

Besides, there's likely to be plenty of dimension anchor systems or terraport interdiction fields or whatever anyways!


Alternatively battlelords versions:
Defense/dodging is a mostly passive penalty to accuracy, but generally won't help all THAT much (still, turning 8 hits into 7 hits might keep you alive rather well with all that armor on).

Your armor will generally-speaking stop all damage from making its way to your own HP, and if heavy enough will also halve the incoming damage (before its own threshold applies) from lower tech weapons (basic lasers and powder weapons with calibers smaller than an HMG) as well.

Armor has Threshold (amount of damage directly prevented), absorption layers, and integrity. The second part are the actual armor plates,etc, while the latter is the framework holding it together. Replacing absorption polymers is cheap and easy, but they're literally HP on that location. Integrity is lost from more damaging attacks depending on the weapon type (plasma and the such are particularly evil there) and if integrity runs out, the armor falls apart at that location no matter how much AP was left after the hit is calculated.

Lasers ignore AP, but deal less damage to begin with and you can buy laser-specific AP layers to fill up some of the location if need be as well instead. Shield generators can help too.

There is of course tons of armor upgrades, all the way up to mechanized battlesuits which the best of are literal walking tanks (and more expensive than a less miniaturized actual tank), though at that point it's a bit closer to an exo-suit than to regular power-armor (which is also available).


Even though you're disposing of it, it's not called waste disposal when that hazardous waste is rammed through enemy ships at relativistic velocities.


"I cast FIST" aside, Constitution was one of the prime stats for Psionicists in 2nd edition; that energy was produced by the body after all, and learning to use it more efficiently still requires having some to start with (you'll just last that much longer with a larger tank). Likewise, having extra physical boxes helps stay alive if you ever go physical with your drain in Shadowrun. Sometimes aiming and putting the magic together is something you learn by rote with enough practice, but in the end you need to be able to handle all that power running rampant through your body if you want to put it to great use.

One aspect that would help socially would be an appearance secondary statistic. Yes, having confidence and whatnot helps, but you're not going to get any words in if people are retching from your very face.

This would allow bonuses for people with better physiques (because it *DOES* help), either making something other than "put everything in CHA, nothing else matters" a good idea for bard types, or at least letting the barbarian's body make up for his tragic inability to perform a tongue-twister when he's surrounded by those noble ladies.

And at the other end of the spectrum, well, you had better be just that good with words if you look like you were beaten with the ugly stick - which makes sense. In fact you can take it a step further into the unrealistic absurdity into hackmaster-style negative appearance scores (0 was already "some folks will attack you on sight while screaming 'monster' and 'it's coming, run'"), where suddenly you start looking more and more attractive to physically-evil inhuman entities. Because at that point, the ... thing... running around with -25 appearance had the exact same effects as nymphs on evil tentacled horrors.


Although you could already replace damn near everything with INT already in pathfinder. We need to see more use from not-int, and especially CON.


Are you THAT worried about people taking a side-trip in their own campaign to glass the surface of a certain world well known for its tantrum-throwing-trumpeteer of paladins? Feels like the 'gap' was more about not performing Exterminatus on the old setting than about everything else said about it; you sure you want it to feel that heavy-handed?

The Pathfinder society was... unethical say the least. They were described one way but what they end up actually doing made "not evil" feel like a bad joke. Are the starfinders also going to be written the same way? (While it's fine as a title it feels kinda... lame as a group name though).

I'm reminded there was a city that was supposed to be central that way as well in Pathfinder, except it was so otherwise ignored that it ended up being 'the middle of buttf##~-nowhere' in regards to relevance to any of the setting. Which is kind of unfortunate. Don't forget about it after the pre-release hype, this time!


Also means that like in traveller jump drive quality directly affects a power's zone of influence.


Or dual-phase weapons that devastate both along the way to deal with any targets that do that annoying "oh it exists in both at once" thingy.


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And yet they still couldn't conceive of how powering up your weapons and targeting the other guy would *not* be seen as an act of friendly greeting.


It can be as simple as it only affecting - like in traveller - matter enclosed in the effect.

So you can FTL a message probe - and those comm boats are basically gigantic databanks containing the entire week's worth of the entire internet - but radio or particles sent out drop back down to LS as soon as they'd cross beyond the bubble - which they can't really because it's a big fat shield of plasma keeping it all in.


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There was another aspect/limitation to the jump drives in Traveller that shaped the way the universe there works; Jumps take a week and leave you 100D at best from destination planets and large gravitic bodies.

So even once a fight begins, chances are even if reinforcements arrive, it's only because they were originally going to be there in the first place, they're gonna be coming in from the outer system (the 100D minimum distance applies to stars as well far as I remember, so you can't just warp to mercury's orbit), and most likely be known about for hours.


It'll still be the same mess as long as it stays vancian. Changing the casting components can't really save it there.


It's not just stale; in every cheap-imitation version after the original (which at least at the time was unique and thematic to the setting) it's also a massive source of balancing migraines.

Well okay,less migraine and more terminal meningitis... Let's not forget that if the game is "balanced" around 4-5 encounters in a day, then "you can do it all day long at will" and "you solve the problem then and there five times a day" have effectively become the same thing.


They were PLANNING on that for 4e (well, more or less), but it completely fell through.

There can be a lot of problems when it's more-than-optional though. Often it means you can no longer play it without everyone at a computer. Most of the various Final Fantasy tabletops (2e, 3e, SEED, 4e, pretty much only FFd6(RIP) was usable without) for example had damage in a format such as this:

3[5d10+219],75%

To which you'd then throw in resistances and any applicable armor stats on the other side.

Stuff like buffs often meant that because you're adding 25% to your current agility, you have to recalculate new hit-chances, initiative per turn, evade rates, and if a gunner or something your damage also because the stat that governs them got changed.

Now, I'm not saying this is bad; with the right scripts and macros combat flows incredibly smoothly despite having numerous variables and situational bonuses/penalties that add a good amount of depth...

But it does mean that it's entirely out of the running if you were planning to play something with paper at a table, or during a power outage or out camping.


Many systems especially sci-fi tend to have psionics instead of magic. Part of that is the perception that it's a "sci-fi" thing, even though the roots of psionic systems are in ancient epics like the Mahabharata; affecting the universe with your will is basically walking - depending on the mythology - towards apotheosis, or enlightenment.

While Shadowrun's magic is MECHANICALLY much closer to D&D psionics than it is to vancian casting (drain aside, it's an entirely mental exercise to manipulate the local manasphere) You'll find psionics in various forms in various other systems, from Traveller to Warhammer 40k.


I believe it was a 'gift' as in "here I'll show you how to do this", and not like that "she is the weave" stuff with Mystra (aka village bicycle).


That's not the other side, it's just its underside.


You wouldn't have that problem if you just jailbroke your spellbook.

Damn wizards and their DRM.


Agree for the most part, but the numbers are pretty huge in Traveller.

A 100t ship is a 1 man (although better if you have at least one other to act as gunner in combat) craft with a single hardpoint and only 3 tons of cargo space. Even without fuel, it's still 78 tons.


phantom1592 wrote:

You know... this idea has been tickling my head for a couple days now. Why NOT just make ships like characters?

The average character has attack bonuses, weapons, movement, HP, AC... These could all transfer pretty simply to ship combat.

Fragged Empire does this, and it works well. Ships have just a bit less (for one thing a ship doesn't have both resources and influence, it's built off the latter from 1+ characters) but overall the two character sheets are very similar, even though they have their separate movement rolls and whatnot.

Things do function differently in combat, but most of that is learning the order system and split phases (command/movement and then systems) of ships. This is still less work than having to learn, say, a spell system or summoners. At most it's about as complex as adding "learn to work with your familiar or a single cohort" to a character; anyone not willing to even do that probably thinks pathfinder core monks have too many abilities and get confused.


Not only effectiveness but also efficiency.

Ion propulsion for example won't get you offworld, but if you need an immense delta-v and don't care about on-the-spot acceleration...

Different FTL methods may be adopted in similar fashion as well.


4e had "skill challenges" and look how well those turned out.
*cough*

As for 1/2: simple, easy and fun doesn't mean it can't have depth. The vehicle construction system in the silhouette system is very simple, though you do need a calculator (unless you don't know how to use a regular calculator it's in no way complicated) to save some time.

Ships should be about as complex as a character build.


What's that got to do with anything?

I'm saying it's technobabble BOTH ways.
The problem is that people are taking one technobabble and going "well this entire tree of technobabble must not be allowed to be as capable as this other technobabble because it's named the wrong technobabble or it won't be balanced/right/correct/fun" before either technobabble has even been written out.


It was shown to people by the god, but is not necessarily a god-maintained-magicland itself.

Besides; any magical device *IS* technology in this setting anyways; someone studied how those spells worked, and built them into a device that does the same thing without having to memorize the magic all the time.

This urge people seem to have to not only segregate and differentiate "magic items" and "technology" with the ever-present "and the latter *has* to suck in comparison" boggles the mind.


I do hope you're not saying "within physics" with the same "within physics" and "realism" limitations that pathfinder applied to the abilities of fighters despite being in a universe where "mundane and within physics" actually includes Mi-Go and shark-things that swim through rock.

The "within physics" of anything in this setting at the minimum involves things like: gravity reactors, natural FTL, glasses that let you see through walls, nanotech that brings you back from the dead, shield generators, lightsabers, and interdimensional travel.

If something can do something as (ex), then it's entirely doable as tech. And as of pathfinder that already included star travel.


and magical approaches aren't physics defying?


Yes, the two-three variants (only the numbers change) of the Starflight(EX) ability.

The magical abilities, such as double-planejumping, interplanetary teleport and the like mean there already *are* several different approaches to FTL, so as long as they're all functional and interesting, it could work out.

However, a party *MAY* want to stick to one method so they don't end up with one guy lost in "the warp", one guy there on time from going *at* warp, one who was there instantly and twiddled their thumbs for a week and two more who have to spend the next session fighting their way out a timesink in dimension 26.


Another handwaved afterthought like so many other "space" games that aren't actually space games, in other words?

Let's hope that's not the case. If I wanted more of that I could just play rogue trader or battlelords.


Or methods of recovering those. Since magic, psionics and cramming gods into fuel cells (the most righteous, [Good] and useful thing to do with them yet) are all possibilities, something like a sentinel post might be a small ship with about a week's worth of supplies (enough to get home) but spend months out at a time by depending on magical creators or hopping asteroid to asteroid getting what it needs for the nanolathes.

Vendors may even list the two values as your extended range and 'bingo' capabilities.


That's why purely volumetric is a terrible idea, as is determining exactly what kind of craft it is ("a heavy torpedo bomber") purely by looks. Different races, cultures, planets and corporations are all going to have different aesthetics at least up to a point anyways, so that gargantuan vessel could just be what two giants who wanted to pilot a "fighter" ended up being. If you know just what it is; that's because you know the exact model.

But you won't know who's in it and what they eat without getting your scans through shields and armor. What you *can* tell is how heavy it is, what it's radiating, how fast it's moving, and sometimes what's sticking out of it. So that's more likely what designation systems and shorthand would work from.


General classification should follow an equally wide system, but be consistent. For example, you might only have 3 'classes' plus their approximate mass. This also gives us the most basic information format one might give from really low sensor rolls/resolution.
"2t Military" "300t Military" "50t Civilian" "30t Industrial"

A ship's "class" as in for character classes, should then be within these. A 2 ton military "fighter" is certainly either a drone or a cruise missile with good guidance, but you don't necessarily know whether it's a bomb-pumped artillery xaser or an antipersonnel hunter-killer loaded with a rotary autocannon; not without getting a better look.

The ship's class would thus be instead the set of abilities,etc that determine *how* that frame is used. A 10t industrial ship has heavy-duty power systems, but there's a world of difference in making it a hauler with extremely high thrust (things get rather speedy for it when it's in the void and not hauling some cargo trees) or a dedicated EW platform.

Even the three 'categories' could simply be due to their base design and most importantly reactors: This could tie into ability durations or the like to Efficiency Bonuses (shorter but higher bonuses when run through a milspec core, longer duration on the slightly cheaper industrials, and then longer but weaker max bonuses on regular "dad bought a prius" ships).

Toss in manufacturers, material bonuses, and you've already got a lot of identification going in: saying we've got "a Psitek 20t industrial-core Electronic Warfare platform" on sensors gives us a complete picture; at this point all we'd really be wondering is exactly what its packing in those two internal missile bays which the sales pamphlet (a knowledge check) for them last week said it had.

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