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Sorry, when I said advanced I was actually talking about the tech ones. Though that works too.


Just so you know, the advanced weapons are easier on game balance than the ancient ones. Yes, the reason is once again them doubles and the ancient firearms ability to have free action reloading.

But they DO make for some pretty damn cool 'slinger options though, especially if refluffed to magitech or something.


Techslinger's in that numerian tech guide. I do wonder if clustered shots might help there, as several of the guns, while quite decent, there, are energy based, which could be a problem much more often than DR.

As for Aegis, yeah, it's one of DSP's psionic classes. One of the best damn martials in flavor, power and balance, but unfortunately not "pathfinder society" legal. Probably the first time I've heard someone say they allow everything but haven't had the psi classes in play! Seriously though. Excellent class. Very solid low tier 3 and a multiclassing wonder.


Also of note for multiclassing, though not PFS, is the Aegis, which grants some simply spectacular combinations and utilities for a wannabe gunner. From Evasion (and its Fort/Will equivalent, Stalwart) to flight, active-camo, burrowing, vision modes, extra arms and of course holding a bigger gun and making it even bigger. Hard to say no to a 'reloading' item/climb/grapple hand, a shield hardpoint and weapons two sizes larger than you'd normally have had!

Will you be covering the Techslinger and its little wonders? Well, not that they're as dangerous as double-pistols but hey they're fun.


Reducing almost any attack to a standard action guts the user's damage so badly it's generally a permanent toss to the trash bin for that option.

At our table we simply say "one double-shot per gun per round" and that keeps things nice and tidy. One of your attacks in a full attack can be both barrels, that's it. That said, it does drag the 'slinger down to well below what an equally dedicated archer could do.

The best way to keep a gunslinger balanced is the Techslinger. Let him jump onto shiny laser rifles and ice-beams, and you won't have to worry about his output anywhere near as much as someone who really has little choice other than "dual double-pistols". It'll be 'good enough' with less effort (as in "feats") letting the character spread out a little more, and you can refluff'em as magitech at worst.


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nighttree wrote:
As far as replicating the 3.5 Warlock, which seems to be the goal of many...does the Keneticist miss the mark grossly ???

It lacks the versatility, the power, the "at will" factor for the majority of its abilities... It's kind of an elemental warlock thematically, but if the final version is remotely similar in power AND/OR scope to the playtest version, it's gonna be the "NPC Classes" version.

You know, right in between Expert and Commoner.


Actually given what intimidation rolls ARE, it might be best to apply a ... 'growth factor' instead. Barring some very specific effects one should generally not remove player agency: The moment things become a cinematic, you've stopped running a game and started telling them your story.

If the intimidation succeeds its roll, you give an updated description/analysis of the character doing so. Make something already existing about that character sound a little more menacing. Sure it may not be a mechanical change, but it can be far more valuable as the right words/descriptions can cause people to completely change their tactics or planned actions.

"Upon closer inspection those muscles look quite a bit more solid than you thought"

"You think you might have caught a strange crackling sound just now, maybe some spell effect's aura-masking is starting to come undone from activating it"

"That's a pretty bright-looking fireball coming your way, oh uh, gimme a reflex save."

"That blade's dripping with something. As it swings close you feel a bit of burning on your skin, maybe from those droplets. Those damn things that impaled bill outright, did either of you ever keep a vial of that stuff?"

Give it to them as a "clue". Changing their behavior; that's the entire point of that roll ain't it?


Mechanically, a lot of the "unlimited" turned out, as people eventually discovered (completely coincidentally matching the time when they stopped worrying the warlock was overpowered and tossed it aside as "worthless non-full-caster-drivel") is actually of little to no value.

By the time a full-caster of more than level 2 or 3 is truly out of spells, unless he's been wasting them (or the poor guy's a blaster build) they've probably gone through several more encounters in a day than the party could ever have survived without their because-just-once-a-day vancian-boosted abilities. The fighter would've dropped dead, completely out of her only resource (HP) before noon, and the rogue might not have made it past the dungeon entrance (remember old 2nd edition and them traps?)

As a result, warlocks, while they don't run out of their tricks, were in the same boat as the fighter but more versatile: You're eventually exhausted and low on health, and the two guys who decide how entire encounters go in a single action each have said that's enough for today it's time to rest. The warlock just had less bookkeeping is all!


Luckily 5th also offers a few 'apprenticeship' tidbits, so that it's not all the same "haha sold your soul now you're damned and try to take it back" story with every character every time.

I rather enjoy the concept of some ancient eldritch horror beyond time accepting, with the barest sliver of its consciousness, that some tiny little baby-chick of an existence just imprinted on it and will try to follow and learn from it for a little while; maybe every once in a while it'll look back to make sure the fluffy little peep-peep is okay.

Or, of simply having looked/chanced-upon/fallen-in-with a different kind of master/teacher than all the other apprentice wizards. "Lil' Mikey over there's really learning some wierdass methods, and who here's ever heard of "Color out of Space"? He don't sound like no archmage OUR academy has ever mentioned!"

Well Master CooS might have you digging a tower to west of house with feathers dipped in cow-man blood every once in a while, and you are kinda wondering about this pattern the lot of them are starting to create, but at least you're not spending the first ten years just polishing his bloody books and cleaning up after that filthy familiar (seriously the thing just... hiding it in boots, the table, under the bed, ANYWHERE".


Petty Alchemy wrote:
Mechanically the Warlock will be succeeded by the Kineticist.

Only if the final version is drastically, unrecognizably different from the playtest version, that is.

Otherwise we've got a poor damage dealer with a devastatingly self-destructive mechanic, no versatility, and precious-few tricks to show for it, whereas Warlocks were decently enough third-tier* as I recall.

edit: * or was that Dragonfire Adepts, or was it the warlock but with access to DFA invocations, or was it the other way around? I know DFA main power came from breath feats, which were iffy of access if you did not purchase Power Surge (which fully cleared'em for RAW combining there), but I forget which was T3 and which was just T4. Either way so many people more or less just slushed way too much of those two classes together so it's difficult to remember.


Except it's never "steps".
Rapid Reload sets reload times to new (shorter) values.
Advanced Firearms with metal cartridges are set to a move action.

At best, rapid reload does nothing. At worst, it would be slowing down your 2-hander if it applied after any ammo mods.


Or he makes it flatly impossible by retroactively adding things whenever the players have an idea he didn't account for, but at that point he should just hang up his dice for good.

What REASON exactly do you have to want to keep them in jail for an amount of time? Keeping in mind that without at least something/someone to do or adventure there's kind of little point to be rolling up a character.


If there's no +x weapons due to no casters (seriously don't remove that part "because there's no enchanters") you're going to have extreme problems. Do keep in mind that higher level challenges (and not just monsters) within the system ASSUME that you are covered head to toe in magic gear.

Martial types are hit the hardest, in fact, by such a lack, before you even get into the issue of "nigh-impossible save DC vs nasty effect you no longer have the magic to remove".


Vod Canockers wrote:
Detect the Faithful.

Won't help unless you're dealing with a hyper-intelligent fully sentient embryo that's already chosen its god?


While the vital strike compatibility is nice, it's still a pretty significant nerf to only give the first VS, as that is in and of itself weaker than dead shot.

Overall, all you've done is weaken gunslingers and guns as a whole, in exchange for making them slightly more compatible with other classes.

Unfortunately, that does not make them attractive in the least.


Rocket launchers cannot be recharged, but as the techslinger gets to give it a temporary charge (and/or lower the charge cost to 0) even if it can no longer be recharged, it shouldn't be an issue.

Now, the fact that it takes a full-round-action to fire the thing, THAT'S a problem. Even if it works, deadshot is weaker than vital strike, which is weaker than mythic vital strike, which is weaker than a full attack.

At least, though (and I do love that part) anything directly hit by the rocket doesn't get a save, which is good because by the time you can afford one there's not a damn thing in the game that can't make DC 15 (and by the time your 'slinger can use it without running out, not a thing that can't make it on a one or two!)

Just make sure it's not a fire type, since everything resists or is immune to that. Force missiles should do well enough.


By pure RAW, the full-round-action to use once means it's completely incompatible with damn near anything.

This is, of course, a fatal flaw in the entire heavy weapon list, as by making it 'not an attack action', and by making it incompatible with the majority of feats and abilities, even a rocket launcher's damage ends up falling short of... bows.


Dispari Scuro wrote:
Use an Elixir of Sex Shift. If it doesn't work, the character is pregnant.

When you think about it, that's not very fair. It means magic in general considers a blastocyst more important than the life of its host!

*gets the hell back into cover*


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Just remember, even if you're not sure what you've caught, there's always Cure Disease!

*Dives for cover*

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Use commune to ask a deity

You don't honestly believe Zeus is gonna own up to this stuff do you?


What do they have? High DR?
Because if that's the case, any magic damage, spells or spell-likes, or energy attacks bypass that entirely.


Don't forget an Arc Rifle!


You've got a guy trying to be a significant part of the battle, except he's a bard with a crossbow (the most reviled weapon of the early development stages of the d20 system, where even "exotic>martial>simple" gets ignored in favor of screwing it up the ***).

So he's not getting to add strength to damage like he would with a bow past character creation (maybe two sessions at most). He's a 3/4 BAB character as well.

The fighter is almost inexplicably better than the others right now, by sheer virtue of your other players not really having any clue what they are doing. It's like if we were comparing a juggler to myself attempting to juggle. The problem's not with the juggler, even though I might need an ambulance.


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On the other hand, that was taking up some "room"/balance-considerations and so should probably get replaced by something. You could certainly make room for a nice masterwork mino-double in there, or something.

But what are the chances that we'll see any fixes/repairs to the proficiency and gunsmithing issue anytime soon (and HOW did that make it from testing to the final printing in the first place), or ever at all?


Given how often the two are conjointly banned or allowed in many groups, I'd suggest taking a look at the psionic multiclassing options.

Aegis and Marksman in particular make superb combinations with the gunslinger, and Adaptive Warrior in particular deserves special mention for the sniper builds, as you can eventually auto-threat with it.


Hope you've got some bonus dice there, else all you've got to keep's three dice!


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KahnyaGnorc wrote:
INT - Aegis (not really one, but PP/day is Int-based), Cryptic, Tactician, Psion

Aegis is a partial manifester, Psy-Warrior style, if you choose to make it that way.

The Harness Power Stone chain of Astral Suit customizations allows you to hold, own, and manifest multiple power stones as if they were known powers outright. You need only someone who can put a power in there in the first place.

Of course, that's only while you're not busy arguing with others at your table about just what an oversized weapon-augmented temporarily-deep-crystal railgun specifically uses as its damage formula (come on just look at the table it's so obviously 6d8 for the first size-up then 2d8>3d8 so 9d8 now help me find more d8s I'm using vital strike).

Did I mention Aegis and Guns get along quite swimmingly?


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LazarX wrote:


Psionics however is more Jean-Grey, Scanners, Mind Control, and general sci-fi and "New Age" and comic book tropes.

Also old scripture like the Mahabharata.

Don't let the power names in psionics throw you off; most of that stuff is ancient.

Systematically speaking, anyways, a point or fatigue system fits most fantasy magics when it comes to how it's done in non-game lore and fiction, with vancian being very setting specific (and ridiculously powerful, which was WHY it was so limited in the form of 'finalizing' high-powered rituals), even for things like D&D.

More to the point, isn't "psychic magic" that sticks to vancian just going to be a couple of sorc-like classes with variants on often already covered spells, like enchantments and divinations? Even Telekinesis is in there already...


Forget the double. Never the double. A Minotaur Double is the real double crossbow. Accept no purposefully-designed-as-utterly-horrific-for-the-wielder-not-the-targets, king-of-trap-equipment-options substitutes

A Masterwork would set you back what, about 1100 gold? That's decently ballpark for a starting bolt ace weapon replacement.


AD&D's cosmology had a very simple reason why you had so many more demons and devils in the prime than (usually temporarily summoned by a spell only) celestials: People are more often evil than good when they do register as non-neutral through their actions.

There were actually significantly more demons and devils than celestials, to the point where the only thing them from invading the upper planes was spending most of their energy on the blood-war.

The gods do in fact not give a flying **** as well, as they have their own closed off dimensional realms within the planes, where whatever they damn well hope and dream whatever they bloody want into reality.


Hm...
Psion, Marksman, Aegis, Bard, Alchemist, Paladin, Stalker, Warlord.


Definitely some energy Arm-Cannons.
Not enough of those.


Reason I'm wondering about master summoner though is that a lot of the higher summons can offer spellcasting themselves.


1: Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Razmarian Sorc, Sorc and Oracle when they have Paragon Surge (oracle especially), probably the Arcanist

2: Regular Sorcerer, Psion (Kineticist might be 3 though), regular Oracle. Standard Summoner, but unsure if Master Summoner is here or makes it to Tier 1.

3: Alchemists, Bards, Skalds! Magus, Warpriests, Inquisitors, Most DSP classes like the Marksman, Aegis, Vitalist, Tactician, Psy-Warrior... Possibly the path of war classes but I've not enough experience with them to say. Synthesist Summoners are probably here, might still be at 2?

4: Barbarians, Rangers, Adepts, paladins are probably at the top of 4, and Dreads and Soulknives. Unsure if Ninja here or in 5, they're fairly versatile and better than the Rogue, but are they good enough?

5: Fighters, The Better Monk Archetypes, Gunslingers, Swashbucklers, Samurai... Cavalier probably still fits here but below samurai.

6: The "common NPC classes", the rest of the monk archetypes, and probably the crossbowman archetype.


Wide Lines would be nice, rather. corridors of death would be a nice compromise between "just another line" and "wideass cone", allowing for good range. You can get a lot more mileage out of those 3-wide MAPWs than the teeniest ones or just one line often enough.


Quote:
The Ion Cannon
Nah more as in "GDI". Orbital flight and deep holes where power plants used to be. Basically what the average blaster caster aspires to.
Quote:
Like Mario?
Well I figure not everyone wants giant blue beams all the time for everything, however odd that may sound. Plus skippy fireballs and all.
Quote:
Are we talking about neutrinos?
In this case it's a weapon from over in gurps: The idea is that you take a typically fatal accident: phasing, hyperspace or teleportation errors, and apply them to the end of whatever barrel or barrel-less vectored weapon that you're using. To bypass silly crap like intervening moons or shields or reactor core housings that thought they stood between you and hilarity
Quote:
Gungineer

Where be this, and does it combine well with Aegis (I can't tell you the totally secret unobvious obscure reasons one would want to multiclass with that)?


Steady Photon-Belt III, Supernova, Hyper, Shock or Giga Wave Cannons
(Because hostile kingdoms/planets/planes-of-existence can't have nice things)
Dantalion's Flute
(Because it's a pretty name with similar results)
The Ion Cannon
(Because)
Plasma Beam
(Makes for a nice low level eldritch blast)
Fire Flowers
(Parce que)
Ghost Particle Cannons
(Anyone that can't appreciate the artful beauty of using warp, hyperdrive or transporter technology to turn relativistic particle beams into horrific telefrag artillery barrages has never known love in their cold heart)
Gamma Ray Bursts
(Wizards can create universes and alter others to suit their tastes. In comparison, being able to punch some ionizing holes through nearby planets is pretty f***ing tame)

Some of this stuff might be "work towards at higher levels" but if you can level up into "bigger campaign-breakier spells", you can level into "brighter, more energetic electromagnetic events" as well! No more holding back "Because best gun shouldn't be as strong as a bow which shouldn't be as strong as fireball"! My Aegis demands seven-loops of happiness and charge!

Edit: Also Golarion has giant laser-spewing robot spiders for crying out loud. Ammunition counts and worries, if even applicable, should involve the burst-limiter on your drum's feed system for the happy little rotary you lug around with 22 strength, not some prissy pouch of lead pebbles in powdered paper.


The limitation is that you've got all your class abilities built up towards doing this, And it's nothing but damage. Oh and a Barbarian or Archer will easily top this using multiple attacks that had less dice to them but an even higher static bonus to the damage. It actually TAKES insane-seeming dice multipliers like this to even make vital strike remotely viable without putting some mythic levels into it. Viable, that is; not actually even close to multiattacking, but meaning you're no longer total dead weight in battle.

You aren't replacing big bad guy over there with a completely devoted thrall. You aren't finding out everything the party will need to know about the evil noble's castle. You aren't calling down the gods themselves to aid you in your endeavors.

Aegis is one of the best martials you can be or have, so it does have a good amount of versatility to go with its damage. But all that just adds up to a solid, competent choice... not a campaign violator. Just looks really bad because so many other "equivalent options" are so ill-designed they can't even do their own role.

Quote:
Soooo.... What are people's impressions of the Metaforge, Pyrokineticist, and the Cerebremancer?

Metaforge is 3 levels or forget it. Not all that needed now that there's Fighter's Blade to help compensate for your nonsoulblade levels, but dual summon could be handy and you might want just another 3 or 4 custom points without damaging your enhancement bonus (after all, if it can't keep up with a bought weapon...)

Pyrokineticist is kinda neat but overall quite 'meh'. How many things aren't highly resistant or immune to fire that you'll deal with?

Cerebremancer requires splitting into two casters. We know how much 'better' that is compared to actually maxing out your caster levels, though this does diminish the sting a bit. However, if you can get an equivalence (either magical or psionic; whichever you don't have) on the cheap combined with the +CL or +manifester multiclassing trait, it suddenly becomes quite awesome, as you get 10 caster levels then for cheap.

Basically all three are "optimize or there's really little point"


Axial wrote:
1) Can the Nomad psion teleport an infinite number of times per day using Nomad's Step?

14401 times per day, assuming you skip out on resting/breaks and expend your 14th level ability on an additional set of actions. Technically not infinite, but if that much is not enough, you've far worse to worry about in the first place!

Quote:
2) If I'm rolling up a psionic character, what would I normally spend my WBL on?

Level permitting there's a certain Torc, we'll call it "of power preservation" that will greatly help you in your quests. Other good stuff includes crystal hilts, deepcrystal weapon materials, and especially powerstones if you're playing an Aegis (as well as magic armor in that case too, but shhhhh that's secret). Otherwise whatever works, it ain't so different from anybody else. Everyone loves rings of regeneration and all that s@$$, and dorjes are really just psi wands. Avoid the crowns though: they're basically staves, except using up that head slot you should have big casting stat bonus on.

Quote:
3) Does Combat Casting give me the same bonus to manifesting psionic powers, or is it casters-only?

Pretty sure it's caster only, but also pretty sure there was a combat manifestation one somewhere. Not that it matters because as usual any hit you can't make the concentration check against has probably just killed you anyways.

Quote:
I think I'll just go with pure Aegis. By the time I would like that dip (16+), I'm not taking combat feats anymore.

Aegis is the splashiest sonofa~ that you can roll, pretty much. With Student of the Astral Suit I recommend switching out around level 6 to get the other stuff you want - you can return to aegis afterwards. Whether that's a weaponmaster for 3 feats and gloves of dueling, or an archeologist to instead pick up a luck bonus, or six levels of adaptive warrior or whatever, well that's up to you. But the most important growth aspects will continue those four levels.

Oh also since you'll easily have the points for it anyways (remember to use real armor!) you should probably get yourself extra arms II and hook a shield up to one of your new hardpoints. You'll have no penalties to shield use from that mode and get the free-hand bonus for item use or just climbing and grappling.


Ashiel wrote:
]I kind of fail to see how that even matters given that you're probably doing it in your downtime anyway. I mean, I seriously doubt you're going to stop to loot the tattered tapestries in the middle of combat. >_>

In combat no. But a standard action just comes out to picking up the item a little more slowly.

Ten minutes per item will quickly have the party saying "screw this", or the caster going "Screw that", because it's actually a significant time investment if the item in question is an entire laundromat's pile of once-expensive-but-now-goblin-suited socks (true story).


Aratrok wrote:
You know what else repairs items? A cantrip called mending. Plus, broken items aren't worthless, they just sell for 75% of their value.

The difference is that mending takes 10 minutes, and astral repair takes a standard action for 2HP.


Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:
The aegis also gets actual class features for item crafting and UMD, which is what a lot of people try to make the fighter do to balance him out.

Something that can violate the miserly party donations of the average dungeon or ruin (in a viciously tentacular fashion) is their very first level ability; Astral Repair. Oh look that broken glass/painting/cup/jewel/statue/sculpture/PIECEOFGEAR isn't worthless and broken anymore. It's brand new. Be aware this may only work once or twice before things are suddenly all dust or barren rooms everywhere everytime however.

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The only downside is that you really have to start relying on Harness stone abilities at high levels to keep your to-hit on par with a fighter or smiting paladin. If you don't do that your offense gets closer to the monk. Which is not a bad thing. Probably cuts down on rocket tag

You can also make violently vicious use of firearms to make up for the to-hit lack.

Firearms that are bigger than they should.
Firearms that are bigger than they should be and are augmented by your suit to yet another size for damage.
Firearms that are bigger than they should be and are augmented by your suit to yet another size for change that you built out of deep-crystal.


More importantly, Vancian casting is rare even in at least the older D&D books. Don't know if those pathfinder novels have wizards and sorcerers working off vancian though.


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JoeJ wrote:

Ever since 1e I haven't had much interest in psionics; not because there's anything wrong with the rules, but because it never made any sense to me to have a new magic system that's completely different than the magic used by both wizards and clerics. If divine and arcane spells used very different mechanics it would make more sense to add another type of magic, or if psionics was a replacement for either arcane or divine magic.

Think of it as the OTHER "divine magic".

Imposing, with only your own power, your will upon the world around you, by said will rather than specific known formulae.

In other words, it's pretty much exactly the way the gods themselves do magic.


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Basically energy wall is a good power, so it looks great when compared to its equivalent: A spell that's actually badly designed and crappy in power.

Making Wall of Energy no better than wall of fire would be equivalent to going "sure the monk is terribly designed and really crappy, but this ability is stronger than what a monk can do so we have to break its functionality down until it isn't anymore".

Yeah, it's a lot better than fire-wall; many powers are, but that's just a matter of them having been more carefully balanced and designed, not "because they're overpowered"


jhpace1 wrote:
Psionics are faster to "come into their own" than magic or mundane fighting.

Rather it's a matter of "faster to actually do what it says on the tin". That Nomad promised teleporting, so it actually starts getting to do a lot of it. The wizard doesn't promise "everything is teleports", but gets it a little later and nearly as powerful anyways.

Obviously, "mundane fighting" aka "martials" (aka "can't have nice things") is going to be behind: The fighter's behind the magus, ranger, hyde-alchemist, synthesist and paladin as well.

Quote:
Wizards and Sorcerers may have Teleport, Lighting Bolt, Fireball, etc, but they are limited to a few slots a day, not using the same power over and over again until you run out of points. The Fighter is still dreaming about his or her +5 longsword while the Psion does 9D6 damage with an Energy Ray.

A sorcerer can use it over and over till he runs out as well, and a psion won't actually be able to do as much in a day unless he's refusing to scale up those energy powers to a higher level - something the sorcerer and wizard need not do as said damage goes up on its own. And the Fighter? He's looking longingly at what the BARD can do and wishing he'd rolled up something more than "cleric's meat summon". Even then though 9d6 is a 5th level spell (it's what you're paying) and once a turn may not actually outblast what an archer's putting out. It's handy though.

Now granted Psions (wilders in particular) are amazing blasters: many roles left in the dust by non-psi classes were shored up quite a bit. Blasting has always been the weakest of the full casting choices, but psi makes it palatable. Psi-warrior, Aegis, Soulknife and friends are all better frontline warriors than classes that can't even do their own job properly, and filled with fun options.

Although a soulknife in an antimagic field is no wizard: Those rolls let you make a MUNDANE weapon, so your situation should rather be "when you're disarmed in prison AND inside an antimagic/psi field(both work with transparancy remember), they have a chance of being useful a few rounds at a time".


Issac Daneil wrote:
Our Armored Blade Soulknife was a monster truck of simple, High Ac, brutal damage pain.
Uh, well, they do compare favorably to a fighter, though that says more about the fighter than the soulknife.
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Our Psion used Energy Missiles and Animating often, while cackling at the puppet-play.
Animating is much fun, though more of a "creative uses" ability than anything you could call *powerful*. Energy missiles are handy and scale well enough, psions being good blasters, but that's still just blasting; nothing a DM needs to worry much about overall.
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I, our Vitalist

Vitalists are great. Versatile, and most importantly -which makes them look extremely powerful despite being no druid or cleric- are an actual, honest combat healer, something the others don't do well (and shouldn't since they should be killing enemies and having prebuffed everyone, rather than wasting turns healing for less than enemies will do).

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My gripe though, was I felt like our non-psionic characters were jokes beside us...

This could be caused by several things: All the psi classes are basically high tier 4 through low 2nd, so rogues, monks and the like look pathetic in comparison. Of course they look pathetic in comparison to everyone. A properly used sorcerer or oracle would slightly edge out the psion, though, and that's not counting what happens when they grab paragon surge atop that.

Chances are you had optimization disparities (and some of us optimizers do love us some psi classes as they're healthily balanced to begin with; less crap to shore up even if the potential's a bit lower), or flat out some of the bad classes that would've felt in bad shape alongside even alchemists.


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See all my experiences with AD&D player reactions to psionics were of the "cover and cover" variety: No one had actually read the book past the cover, but they knew, they KNEW, without a doubt in their minds that this was the most overpowered, broken stuff in the history of gaming, because if you no longer need to memorize your spells, well you're just plain a god.

Nearly all "information" involved was "third" (more like sixth or twelfth) party at best, and one DM was convinced they were a gestalt class and that I'd be multiclassed wizard with it without splitting the XP because humans don't multiclass, or some other dumb s*** like that.

Nowadays folks I play with love themselves some vitalist-on-illness action.


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Have you SEEN some of the people controlling the summoners that are controlling the poor things?

Well granted you also probably shouldn't use things smart or wise enough to realize they've just been designated "meat shield; trapspringer extrodinaire" too often. Tends to cause rebellions.


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Regarding Focus Usage: One of the main things that uses it up is metapsi abilities. If you want to empower a spell, you just use a higher spell slot. If you want to empower a psionic power, you not only pay the increased PPs equivalent to going up a slot, but you ALSO expend your psionic focus to manifest it with empower.

This means you cannot readily use multiple meta'd abilities over and over round after round. Gotta recover focus, and need Deep Focus or Psicrystal Containment just to double-tap on metas.

Overall, anything coming out of the psionics system puts arcane and divine magic to bloody shame when it comes to balancing. Be aware though that you'll occasionally get some very thorough explanations as to just how broken psionics are: These generally use erroneous information (usually bull**** on "oh I didn't know" claims regarding PP/Manifester Level expenditure limits; it's almost always conveniently ignored for arguments) or are anecdotal "friend of a friend of an acquaintance of a coworker of a student of a buddy" bits about some guy having read the book and discovered just how broken it truly was.

Now go roll up an Aegis with Machineguns and revel in being totally and utterly average-yet-versatile despite what that all sounds like!


Imbicatus wrote:
Crossbowman can be surprisingly effective if you take all the vital strike feats and use deadshot. If you PRC or into something with Sneak attack it becomes even better.

That's kind of a mean thing to suggest. Crossbowman isn't good at all.

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