As has been stated before, the Pathfinder Society is whatever you want it to be. Yes, the official method for joining is through training and scholarship under the tutelage of other members - with a big organization like the PFS, there's not a whole lot of incentive for them to spend time, effort, and funds on any ol' adventurer who fancies himself a Pathfinder. That said, there are definitely field commissions and folks whose discoveries count against most of their training. The point of the training in the Grand Lodge is that, while individual Pathfinders are all about doing their own thing, the organization is going to be more interested in control. I suspect that for every toe-the-line Pathfinder, there's an Eando Kline or Belzig who does more or less what he or she wants and just barely stays in the Society's good graces, or a Varian Jeggare who treats it almost as a hobby. Certainly, the initiation stuff shouldn't be used as a straightjacket for the various Pathfinder prestige classes - unless, of course, you want to make a game out of it - any more than someone with a level in cleric needs to subscribe to all the tenets of an organized religion.
But long story short - we just didn't think the organization would be as realistic, fun, or interesting if it was just a mob of loose-knit adventurers (which, incidentally, is how the Society started out historically). But philosophies among GMs - and the Pathfinders themselves - will vary. Heck, the very first lodge established outside of Absalom almost broke ties and created an entirely separate Society, and I bet they're not the last Pathfinders to think that they could do a better job than the Decemvirate...
Jeff was originally going to work on the Pathfinder's Journal for Kingmaker, but ended up not having time in his schedule. As a result, he helped us with the concepting, and there's a team of 6 authors working together to produce the story arc, a la the Eando Kline days. After that, we'll be back to a single-author story arc for Serpent Skull with Robin Laws.
I would love to see some Golarion books by Kemp, Dave Gross, Erik Scott de Bie, Elaine Cunningham (of course), Thomas Reid, Mark Anthony, just to name a few off the top of my head
It is also un-Australian to take your bat and ball and go home and sulk, too, as I am sure you are aware. :)
Hey, Blue, please chill out. We're all friends here (or ought to be), and there are not so many pulp enthusiasts that we can afford to alienate each other over distinctions the rest of the world wouldn't even recognize.
Jaq - as Erik said, thanks for the comments, and if you still want to talk about Planet Stories, we're around.
It depends how you define "greats".
Is it Books sold?
Is it appearance on Genre or Main Bestseller Lists?
Is it recognation by fellow genre authors?
Is it prices won?
Is it recognation by critics?
In short: yes.
I'd say each of those categories is satisfied by at least a few authors in this book. As each interview will also include a brief overview of why the author is particularly notable, I'll save the rationale for the final product, but I'm extremely pleased with the author selection. Please keep in mind that this is "greats," not "the greatest"... just because your favorite author isn't on here doesn't mean they aren't equally awesome. Along with their accolades, sales, and quality as determined by me personally, several other factors contributed to whether or not a given author was included:
1) Had to be living.
2) Had to be contactable. (Next time, Ted Chiang! Next time!)
3) Had to be willing to give me his or her story for well below standard superstar fees, as we simply don't have the same budget as a major publishing house. (Authors were usually pretty cool about this when I could talk to them personally, but most agents were understandably reluctant to let anything go for less than market value.)
4) Had to be willing to conduct an interview. Several authors simply weren't interested in answering questions, which was half the point of the book.
A number of authors (including my hero Dan Simmons) didn't make it past that battery of tests, but fortunately enough did that I was able to pack this book solely with folks who are - in my mind - legitimate superstars, and fundamentally important to the current state of the genre.
Kirstov is correct that there are many books we do not currently have digital rights to. That said, we're definitely interested in getting Planet Stories e-books up and running... it's just going to take some time.
Interesting choice not to put R. A. Salvatore's name on the cover of Giants.
No offense intended to Mr. Salvatore, but sometimes not every name can fit on the cover... and I'm sure that Salvatore himself would agree that folks like Ben "I've Been A Science Fiction Badass Since Before Your Parents Were Born" Bova deserve top billing. :)
Again, though, this is just a mock-up cover. I'm extremely excited to see how the final cover turns out.
I think what this boils down to is: we made what we thought was the best Bestiary possible. If you like it - great, and thank you! If you don't, we're very sorry, and we understand your concerns, but there's nothing else we could have done in good conscience... and there are several other products from us that you'll hopefully enjoy more.
Since this is all discussion of a decision that was made a year ago, and is completely over and done with, I don't think we need to make this into a potential flame war. The OP is entitled to his opinion (which, while aggressively stated, is perfectly valid), and a bunch of other folks have made it clear that they feel differently.
Rather than letting the discussion degrade, let's all go do something productive instead, like play a game (or edit a Pathfinder)...
1) It's not just Pathfinder Adventure Path and the Revisted line that give more fluff on monsters... these days, almost all of the new monsters in Pathfinder Modules or the Pathfinder Chronicles lines receive two-page write-ups as well.
2) When we were first planning the Bestiary, we had this same conversation. Personally, I value fluff more than crunch when I'm reading through a book (though I'll settle for some juicy and unique special abilities!). But if we gave every monster a two-page write-up, we wouldn't have been able to print half the monsters. This is especially important when you consider that, like the Monster Manual back in the Dungeon days, the Bestiary is the only monster book that we expect people to have on hand when they're playing a Paizo adventure (meaning we don't reprint their full stat blocks). If we had expanded entries but limited our selection, it would mean that *every Paizo product* going forward would lose valuable new content in favor of reprinted stat blocks... a loss that would just keep adding up as the years rolled on. So utility was key with our monster selection, as was quality art, but as one of the authors I hope that there's still enough flavor there to hook you in. (And I can definitely say that, with many of the monsters I worked on, we certainly provided more flavor than the SRD/MM... I can't tell you how many hours I spent combing mythology articles on Wikipedia.)
And as a GM, I think the one-per-page format is badass.
So in summary: I understand and share your concerns, but it was not a thoughtless decision, and in the long run I think it's poised to make sure you get MORE value out of all our other books.
It's true. The book is finished, and titled City of Strangers. And I took into account many of the things people on this thread were asking for, so hopefully you'll enjoy it. :)
Wow, guys! Glad to see everyone is still excited about this. :)
One of the reasons the book is coming out now rather than a year ago is that, in accordance with our new staff policy regarding personal projects, the book was completed in its entirety before it was announced. Kaer Maga's been my baby since its invention for Seven Swords of Sin and Pathfinder #3, so I'm thrilled that it's finally going to see a book of it's own.
There's totally advanced math in Golarion. Yes, you can use magic to get the same answers, but:
1) Most of the wizards I know aren't going to waste a valuable spell calculating how many bricks the workers need to build their tower.
2) Most gods are going to look askance at the priest who communes with them every time they need to know whether it's more economical to plant yams or russet potatoes.
3) The vast majority of the population doesn't have access to magic, and I dare say 99% of mundane masons, architects, shipwrights, military leaders, etc. aren't going to hire expensive magic users just to practice their trade.
Hmm. Looks like for Niven it is going to be "The Coldest Place". I wasn't sure if that or "Becalmed in Hell" (same cast) was earlier, but both are up there for stories I have in the most collections :)
Yeah, "The Coldest Place" was the first for Niven. And while you're right that some of these have seen print in anthologies, quite a few of them have never been collected before and were exceedingly hard to find (see: hunting down expensive, 20-year-old fanzines on used book sites), and one author gave me a story so rare that I couldn't find mention of it anywhere on the internet... I'm excited to see what people think!
We've discussed this in the past in relation to numerous different languages (the last discussion I remember being deeply involved in was the one about using "asian-sounding" names and words), but my position is essentially the same:
People in Golarion don't speak Polish (or Chinese, or German, or whatever). They speak their own languages. Hence, they are not bound by the same grammatical rules.
The human mouth makes a limited number of sounds, and there are countless examples of phonetically identical words that have different meanings (and totally unrelated origins) in separate languages. In fact, you don't even have to have different languages to end up with weird and awkward word similarities. (I'm reminded of the British politician who recently riled people by properly using the word "niggardly," which despite sounding similar to a racial epithet in fact is 100% distinct etymologically.)
We frequently take inspiration from real-world languages, in terms of sounds and construction, but we often try to mix things up and intentionally change sounds/conjugations/etc. (This is in fact the same policy we take with any cultural trope - I frankly think a fantasy nation is MORE fun if it's not a straight-up analogue of Earth, but rather mixes and matches elements that evolved in very different regions in our world.) While we try to make sure the words we invent aren't provocatively close to a hilarious or offensive word in another language (neither of which, I note, apply to jadwiga), we're an English-language publication and honestly don't have the time or inclination to foresee every possible issue in every language. And in fact, having names and words that sound realistic (perhaps because they HAVE been used in some culture) add a certain verisimilitude to the world that you don't get if every dragon or peasant is named Var'axytrax'tyxlkrtyn.
If you don't like a name or a word we've created - change it. These books and everything contained within them become your sole property once you purchase them, and far be it from us to tell you how to name things. But the idea that we're somehow oppressing someone or "ought to know better" seems a bit ludicrous to me.
I was about to suggest the Lambda Awards as well, but I'll throw in the Tiptree Award for good measure. Strangely, I can think of a ton of science fiction novels off the top of my head, but other than Iron Council, I'm drawing a blank on fantasy.
Also, I was under the impression that Ursula K. LeGuin's "The Left Hand of Darkness" was pretty much required reading for any class dealing with gender or sexuality.
Of course, if you really want to see an SF author play with issues of sexuality (and have a strong stomach) James Tiptree, Jr. is a genius...
Spoiler:
...albeit one I can't read anymore, primarily because every story in the collection of hers that I own follows the same story arc:
present cool setting or idea ====> rape rape rape ===> death.
By the time I got halfway through the book, I found myself looking for excuses not to read, just because it was so damn depressing. A wonderful writer, and a fascinating historical figure, addressing pertinent questions about sexuality, but geez....
There was a brief but deadly outbreak of fire cancer in the Grand Lodge in early 4909, possibly as a result of something somebody brought back from a mission. Clerics were called in, and it was quickly hushed up to avoid a panic, but several notable Pathfinders were claimed, including Janiff.
kuttner truly is a great auther and he can write horror action and funny stuff all at once
i read the salem horror one of kuttners cthulu stories and found it to be very creepy
i read the world is mine in robots have no tales late one night and laughed so hard i woke my dad up
im just not sure what to get next
elak
or the dark world
Dark World FTW. Elak is cool, with more of a classic feel and probably more historical significance for the genre, but Dark World is my favorite Kuttner book to date.
Just wanted to let you know that, as of this week, wheels are rolling faster than ever before on this. Can't make any announcements just yet, but soon....
If it's not true, could the proofreader be persuaded to be more diligent? Proofreading is not something I am terribly good at, so I don't mean to imply that it's easy, but extra effort would be much appreciated, if it can be done.
There is no policy to "leave in" typos from previous editions. Any errors in Planet Stories books are our fault, and we try to make sure that there are as few as possible.
Of course, having read as much "classic" SF as I have over the last few years, I know that even the most highly regarded books from the most highly regarded publishers often have a typo or two, so pure perfection is very difficult to attain.
We'll keep trying, though!
Just to add/clarify... sometimes, with older books, language and sentence structure that was totally normal at the time can seem downright bizarre. It's not uncommon for Chris and I to mark a potentially mistyped section, only to discover that the same weird turn of phrase has been in every edition since the original pulp. In these cases, we generally leave it as it was originally published - only typos that are clearly typos get fixed, as none of us here have the hubris to "fix" the work of someone like A. Merritt or Henry Kuttner, despite the fact that it's sometimes tempting to streamline or modernize it for today's readers. So while we're not averse to fixing typos, our mission is very much to present the work as the author originally wrote it, doing our best to repair any abridgements by previous editors.
That said, if the text talks about muffled footballs when it's supposed to be muffled footfalls... that's our bad, and we make no excuses.
I suspect we'll be making a formal announcement about Before They Were Giants before too long, but the basic hook of the anthology is that I managed to get fifteen of the most important science fiction and fantasy authors alive to give me their first published stories (including some extreme rarities that you've probably never seen anywhere else), along with interviews in which they talk about what they know now that they wish they knew then, their advice for beginning writers, etc. My hope is that it'll be both a teaching book and a look at the roots of many of our favorite authors, and I was really astonished at the level of interest among the authors I contacted. The final author list is:
Ben Bova
Charles Stross
China Mieville
Cory Doctorow
David Brin
Greg Bear
Joe Haldeman
Kim Stanley Robinson
Larry Niven
Michael Swanwick
Nicola Griffith
Piers Anthony
R. A. Salvatore
Spider Robinson
William Gibson
Hey, Sorry to post this hear but am not having a ton of luck finding another way to contact planetstories. I have some shorts I'd like to submit to them for approval. If anyone can direct me there I will be greatful, and probably utterly ashamed for not having found it myself.
Hey Fafhrd - you can contact us directly at our various email addresses (for instance, I'm james.sutter@paizo.com), but please be advised that we are 100% closed to unsolicited submissions, and in fact aren't really in the business of publishing original fiction at all at the moment. Thanks for the interest, though!
Guys - I'd love to take out a subscription, having read the Kuttner and Moore stuff, and starting to enjoy Brackett.
Here's the thing: living in the arse-end of the world makes shipping tough. If I can combine cleaning up the backorder of older titles with subecription orders for a while, thats great (but I dont know if your systems can handle an order "on hold" for a while).
Once I chew that up though, I'm happy to take an order shipment every 3-4 books to cut the shipping rate - is that possible?
I don't know if that's actually doable, since it involves a lot of careful record-keeping by our frantic warehouse folks, but it's worth a shot. Still, it's worth contacting customer.service@paizo.com and seeing if they can work something out. Thanks!
Remember folks, you don't have to do established characters (though it might be more likely to win you more points), it just has to be recognizably Pathfinder!
Also, non-staff contributors ARE eligible. Boomer, I'm looking at you... and I'd love to see Kortes and Vaughan compete for "Best Lini Outfit"....
Yhe line's only going to get stronger in the next few months... I can't wait until the next round of solicitations, when we can FINALLY tell you all about the secret Planet Stories projects we've been working on....
I'm certainly not saying it's vital or mandatory, but e-publishing needs to be part of the future of Planet Stories. This includes the old Sony eReader and Amazon's Kindle. Now that there is software to allow owners of the iPhone to use Kindle on their iPhone, it makes more sense to appeal to that audience. This is especially true if Paizo can offer a deal where if you're a subscriber you get an electronic copy free as well an an update of when the material changes, such as the interior art, two column format you're describing. Indeed, in some instances, the e-publishing front is superior to traditional publishing as it takes far less time to make sweeping changes to the medium.
In addition, and perhaps this is straight out crazy talk, where are there no RPG tie ins to any of this material? 'Planet Stories' RPG, even it it just featured Legend & Lore/Titans of the Earth style Pathfinder write ups for the main characters, monsters, and magic items, would be another way to expose the material.
Lastly, is any of the material available through book clubs? I know the science fiction book club often has hard cover exclusive editions of material for example and as some people have made mention of that desire, that could give them a venue for it.
In terms of price, can't say I agree with most complaints here. Dean Koonzt charges $9.99 for his third book in the Frankeinstin series and that seems to be a common pricing point among the bigger authors for a paperback. The price of things goes up.
(Which gets back to the ease of digital distribution...)
1) We're definitely looking into getting some Planet Stories e-publishing going on, but those wheels are still in motion.
2) Direct RPG tie-ins aren't on the schedule right now, but you can probably expect to see the occasional easter egg in the future, and I know all of us would love to put out a science fiction roleplaying game someday....
3) At the moment, the only one of our books available through the Science Fiction Book Club is Northwest of Earth, and while I of course prefer our edition, they did a really nice job - the hardback version has some serious heft to it!
Official answer: We're working on it, and expect to ramp things up after GenCon, but putting novels together takes a long time, so I can't give an official answer just yet.
Unofficial answer: Somewhere between one and two years from now, probably closer to one.
I'd like to add my hope that some of these novels are written with Golarion noobs in mind. I'm hoping for novels that don't assume the reader knows anything about Golarion, and might even include some explanations about some aspects of that world. Something that will make me say "Wow! Golarion is a fascinating place! I have to get some more Pathfinder material!" Just like the Dragonlance Chronicles hooked me onto Krynn, in ways that gaming materials alone couldn't do.
Just a quick note to support Dragnmoon, in what I believe was a totally non-contentious intention to spread the word about the Goodman deal. While I'm not making any comment about the motives behind the Goodman trade-in thing, I will say that we Paizoites don't have any problem with people selling or trading in their old 3E and 3.5 stuff (or 2nd Ed, or 4E, etc.). If you decide that the PFRPG Core Rulebook means you don't need your 3.5 PHB anymore, and want to get some cash for it - awesome! It's not like many of us here haven't sold off (or, just as often, purchased) books from outdated editions before....
Arynwyn, you've made your point. We've heard your point. Repeatedly. We also disagree with it (as do the majority of folks we've heard from about it, which plays a large factor in our decision).
Pathfinder fiction is staying in the AP for the foreseeable future. If you don't like it, don't read it, and I hope the other 50-70 (depending on if you like the other non-adventure material) underpriced, full-color pages each month are worthwhile for you. But railing against it ad nauseam in the frequently snarky manner exhibited here is a waste of time, and does little to endear you to the folks in charge.
To everyone else: thank you for continuing to voice you opinions, and rest assured that we keep careful track of popular sentiment. While there are a few sacred cows with Pathfinder (after all, it needs to stay fun for us, too!), we're constantly experimenting, and hearing what our community wants and then trying to give it to them is the bedrock on which Paizo is based.
EDIT AND SPOILER
Spoiler:
...by which I of course mean: if you don't love everything we do, you stink! :D
Are we going to know which River Kingdom Lisa Stevens designed or will it be anonymous like the classic x revisited books?
Dungeon Denizens Revisited revealed who wrote what in the intro; we'll probably be doing something similar to this in all our "written by lots of folks" books in the future.
What?! You mean we won't be able to take credit for the things people like while avoiding blame for those that they don't? Madness!
...seriously, though, I'm guessing you'll be able to pick at least certain authors out of the mix by flavor alone, especially China and Elaine.
Thank you Eric for being so open and candid with us. I am a recent subscriber. Your new incentives were the final straw to get me to subscribe to the line. And I'm rather glad I did. I subscribed just in time to receive "The Sword of Rhiannon." and it was quite a fun little read. "Robot's Have No Tails" however is a blast. I love it. I plan on picking up the other Henry Kuttner book you've published now (I believe that it was the mentioned "Elak of Atlantis") as well as the other Leigh Bracket novels you have available and the Gary Gygax novels (and probably the rest honestly, but Henry Kuttner is the top of the list). I certainly hope the line sticks around. I'm rather pleased I subscribed to it, and I'm a little sad it took me so long (I honestly waffled about subscribing for quite some time).
Don't forget The Dark World! That's the best one! I'd say it's got more in common with Brackett's work or The Ship of Ishtar than with Robots Have No Tails, honestly, but it's by far my favorite Henry Kuttner book to date.
Yes I am talking about Robots. All my "older" Planet Stories books haven't warped or anything. Even the ones I've read are in excellent shape.
Glad to hear it—er, at least about the older books. From here on out the cover stock should be more like the one we were using with older PS books. Sometimes you really can't tell how a given paper type will hold up until something's actually been printed... Now we know.
I'd say that The Ginger Star (and Hounds of Skaith/Reavers of Skaith, which follow it) is my favorite of what we have out right now, though I think Ship of Ishtar might be trumping that. I also really enjoyed The Dark World, Black God's Kiss, and Northwest of Earth, both for the weirdness of the worlds they presented and for the historical significance (especially Black God's Kiss... first female protagonist in the genre!). Really, though, I'd hope you could choose almost at random (with the exception being the trilogies for Moorcock and Brackett, which are best read in order) and still come up with something you enjoy....
I'd like to add that the unifying theme of Planet Stories, to me, has always been "historically significant SF." That doesn't just mean pulps - it means authors that we think have had a major impact on the genre. H. P. Lovecraft loved Henry Kuttner, and thought Kuttner's work would long outlast his own. Gary Gygax has arguably done more to popularize fantasy than anyone since Tolkien. Piers Anthony's Xanth books remain a major touchstone and entry point into the genre for countless modern readers, and the chance to publish some of his early, formative work was too good to pass up. They're all different, but they're all classics, by one metric or another.
All of that said - please do know that we're always listening, and that your feedback on these boards is read and discussed by every member of the staff. As subscribers and Planet Stories enthusiasts, you're our first and best idea of what's working with the line and where it can improve, and your feedback is worth more than you can imagine. Together, I believe we can build a line that will stand the test of time - as these stories all deserve to.
Thanks for the comments, folks! Keep 'em coming - what do you like about the new format? What do you dislike? Reader feedback goes a long way toward shaping our strategies, but we don't know what you think unless you speak up...
HOW DARE ANYONE SPEAK ILL OF THE PFRPG? SILENCE THE INFIDEL!
Spoiler:
Nah, seriously, dude - we don't expect to be everything to everybody. That way lies the path of madness. If the PFRPG isn't for you, then hopefully you'll enjoy our setting books or our gamemastery aids or our bestiaries (because if there's one thing that's awesome across all systems, it's monsters!). Whatever the case, no hard feelings, and I hope that we can all get along and keep these boards welcoming for everyone who likes ANY of our products... even if they hate the rest.
After all, we can all hate Jason Bulmahn personally and still be friends with the other staffers, right?
Calling Mr. Sutter, Mr. James Sutter... Calling Mr. Sutter. You are being paged, Mr. Sutter.
I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED.
Actually, we've already done a fair bit of work on the campaign setting's zodiac analogue, though Wes is more responsible for that side of things (I'm just an astronomy goob, not astrology). That information, however, is tentatively slated to factor heavily into an upcoming adventure path, so for the time being I'm afraid we'll have to leave you hanging....
Any chance of getting these into planet stories? They are sometimes hard to find in new paperback form. I order scifi for a public library, and I would like to order a new set. I understand from Wikipedia that the first 5 volumes are no longer copyrighted in the U.S.
It's something we've considered repeatedly, and it's not out of the question, but it's kind of a dicey proposition for us, as those books have been reprinted so heavily... in general, we prefer to bring back books that folks haven't heard of but should, rather than try to go toe to toe with major publishing houses over the same public domain books. So we'll see!
James Sutter
(Editor),
