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Hag Eye Ooze

James Risner's page

RPG Superstar 2014 Marathon Voter, 2015 Marathon Voter. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber. FullStarFullStarFullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 5,260 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 9 Pathfinder Society characters.

Owner of D20 Hobbies


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Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Graystone, I guess the really interesting thing is I have nearly polar opposite views:

I don't think any of the ACG errata is all that bad. I'm actually happy Divine Protection got nerfed as I was using it on nearly every character I built in multiple games. It was broken so bad I felt compelled to use it if I had more than CHA 16.

I also like the general answers (in FAQ) that have wide reaching implications, because they inform me how other similar rules should also be interpreted.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

1 person marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
No reason to wake the FAQ beast

I assume all of this is trying to be funny right?

I've wondered if that is the actual thought process. Something along the lines of "hey this rule is ambiguous and if I interpret it this way I get something cool, cute, interesting, broken, dumb, or klunky".

If you like the klunky, dumb, or broken rule, do you really wish they don't notice it and make it more clear so it has lees incorrect interpretations?

Or do you celebrate when clarifications happen?

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Lune, not a lot of discussion really. Mostly just to drive home the point that if an ability says it adds a spell to your spell list and that spell isn't already on your spell list, then it doesn't add to your spell list unless it describes how to handle the spell (what level) etc.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

andreww wrote:
Mark Seifter asking people to compile a list of what other things were hit by it but nothing seemed to happen with that. It impacts the Shaman FCB as well as the Wayang Oracle FCB amongst various other effects.

I remember that also. Maybe we should compile a list. I won't have much time this week past today (GenCon) but next week I'll start a new thread and you and I and others can compile a list of all things that could be interpreted to have impact on this. I'm thinking more "all things" not "classes of things". So all FCB that add spells that might be impacted by the FAQ each listed separately.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Spook205 wrote:
Lets say our shining child companion gets hit by deeper darkness. Is it safe to assume that his immunity to blindness does not prevent him from becoming effectively blind because of his inability to see in the deeper dark?

Yes Immunity to Blindness is talking about the condition not the state of being unable to see.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Cussune wrote:
Any way of adding spells that is not incorporated to a class ability is disallowed. For what my opinion's worth.

The FAQ was to cover two issues:

Eldritch Heritage for Arcane for spells not on your list.
Cracked Orange Ioun Stones for spells not on your list.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Anzyr wrote:

I find the ... argument to be complete nonsense.

The issue is that the Shaman FCB at the moment RAW runs up against the Spells Known FAQ.

Fair enough, my statement has a bit of exaggeration to it. I'll retreat a little, and say a larger number of the times when the phrase RAW is used in a debate on this thread is to reject another person's interpretation of the rules. Not all of those times are for things like what is the BAB of a 12th level Fighter. Many of them are things like this or the courageous weapon property pre-FAQ.

This particular issue, for example, is a case where you could say RAW it doesn't do anything and I'd say RAW it adds it to spells known in agreement with the FAQ because it is a Shaman class feature. The key different in the interpretations of RAW is I consider it a class feature and you (and others maybe) do not.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

claudekennilol wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Are there age adjustments in PFS?
Yes, unless you're a pregen.

Why would you? RP?

Characters do not alter their ability scores as a result of this choice.[age category]

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Daring Dodo wrote:

according to the d20pfsrd, see link)

I can't find that in the book, so I don't know whether or not that is "helpful" additional documentation for beginners written by d20pfsrd or is actually in a book written by paizo.

Book page reference? Otherwise I'll choose to ignore it, as it doesn't exist except on d20pfsrd.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

As has been true since the 1st archetype was printed, if two modify/alter/add/remove/changed/touch/lookat/kick/etc the same class feature, they don't work together.

As has been clarified in the FAQ, something that modifies a class feature with sub features, doesn't work with something that modifies a sub feature. Whether or not this is how "it has always been" could be debated. But it is how it is now.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Avoron wrote:
It's a melee weapon that is being thrown. It's not making melee attacks, but it's being used as a melee weapon, because that's what it is. It's only a ranged weapon if it cannot be used to make melee attacks.

Totally don't agree with you mostly because I totally don't agree the rules quote you quoted says this.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rushley son of Halum wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Not let nonsense cooked up by freelancers dictate your game.

I think he referred to Stephen Randy-MacFarland, who is a rules team member.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Example questions?

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Byakko wrote:
When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed


1) "one-handed" is referring to how many hands you're using to throw the weapon. In this case, Dex would apply to the damage.
2) "one-handed" is referring to the melee category of weapons. A weapons being thrown isn't being used as a one-handed weapon and thus wouldn't gain Dex to damage.

Which is right?
It's honestly impossible to know without official feedback.


Much better said than me.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Alexander Augunas wrote:

[that's not what I'm asking.

Slashing Grace specifies that a light or one-handed melee weapon must be chosen

It is and it doesn't.

When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed

Are you holding the thrown weapon in your hand? No, it is flying through the air as a "thrown weapon" that you used one hand to throw.

Not a one-handed weapon (a term specific to melee weapons).
Not a weapon you are wielding.

In short, no.

But you differ, and others do. So:

Expect Table Variance.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Of course, this was also in a high-power AP campaign.


Globetrotter wrote:

I'm glad to hear about this change, but maybe they nerfed it too much.

Now it is something I would probably never take.

It went from "every CHA character takes this feat" to "who would waste a feat". But not every option should be broken (old) or required to be useful (new).

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Well the good days are over. Divine Protection from ACG got nerfed from "Give me Paladin 2nd level Divine Grace" to 1/day immediate action on one save.

I got to say it is probably for the best. That feat was ridiculously broken.

I had it on a RotRL character, rocking 34 as my lowest save (Couldn't afford 2 levels in Paladin.)

I had it on another home creation.

I had it in a Dragon Conflict event on 2 characters I'm running for GenCon.

It was in PVP tournament characters I've played.

It was prolific. Every character that is CHA based, had this feat. If they didn't have the pre-res, they took them if possible before taking this feat.

It was dumb.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Atarlost wrote:
It's not easy, but there are lots of people out there trained to do so. They're called computer programmers.

It isn't easy as Matthew Downie showed, it would make the Core rule book 2343 pages long.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Cyrad wrote:
Why didn't they just say you can't wield a weapon in your off-hand? Isn't that what they intended
Nicos wrote:
Perhaps the intent was also to disallow magus for spellcombat +slashing grace or something.

Or they could have intended to block:

  • Holding a metamagic rod
  • Holding a flag
  • Holding a Light or Heavy shield
  • Grappling
  • Hundreds of other uses of "occupied hands"

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Nefreet wrote:

Because Jason Bulmahn.

Essentially, when you're in a Grapple, one "hand" isn't available.

That means it's "occupied" as far as Slashing Grace is concerned.


Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Entryhazard wrote:
Since when shamans have spells known?

Everyone with spells have spells known. So /boggle. I've no idea what you mean?

Table: Shaman Daily Spells Known

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Melkiador wrote:
I honestly feel this is more about getting a previous FAQ removed instead of getting this FAQ answered.

I don't like that concept, and I don't think it is likely to happen. In the meantime, it is probably less stress to keep coming up with things to try to get an FAQ "changed".

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

_Ozy_ wrote:
Can you even 5' step into an occupied square? Why don't enemy creatures count as obstacles?

You can't unless you are small enough to share the square together.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

blackbloodtroll wrote:
Actually, you can Sunder any item.

Yep, I especially love spell component pouches.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

This is not the first time this topic (Is a thrown Dagger still a Light Weapon which is a Melee weapon type) has came up. This isn't going to ever be solved to the satisfaction of both parties until we have a FAQ that answers it.

Expect table variance.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

No because it is a magical effect that provides the safe effect.

This is identical to Orange Ioun Stone. Unless you just like all 20th level casters casting their spells at caster level 49.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Anzyr wrote:
So I'd prefer an FAQ.

But this is a horrible waste of text if it ends up in the FAQ. I'd much rather have things that are non-obvious get faq treatment like Overrun.

Why? Because they deliberately don't want the FAQ to be never ending. So if this gets FAQ treatment, I can promise you something else you would also get FAQ'd will not ever be.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Melkiador wrote:
FCB is listed in its own section separated from the classes.

How about this. Call it table variance, and I'll stop considering them class features in PFS games by RAW when a FAQ tells me I'm wrong.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Claxon wrote:
If no, then the 5ft step prevents the AoO for the general movement, but the act of moving into someone else's square is a separate and distinct action which would not have the AoO negated.

That is the key rules difference we have in this thread.

Does the 5 ft step "never provoke" and as such prevent you from both the "leaving a threatened square" and "enter an opponent's square" AoO?

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Avoron wrote:
It just requires you to select a light or one-handed slashing weapon and use it one-handed.

Depends on your RAW interpretation.

Mine, is that it is not a melee one-handed weapon and you are not using it as a melee one-handed weapon when throwing the weapon.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

DM_Blake wrote:
Conan: This is STUPID!!!

One man's stupid is another man's "common sense".

I honestly don't see the problem here.

There is a rule you can't sunder anything except weapons, armor, and shield.

If the GM calls the leg a weapon, you can sunder and deal damage to him.

If the GM doesn't current call it a weapon, you can't.

The GM is also free to say the leg he just picked up he intended to use as a weapon and he intended to use it for AoO, then it is a weapon. He doesn't necessarily need to actually attack you with it. He just needs to tell the GM (PC or NPC) that it is being used as an improvised weapon.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

blackbloodtroll wrote:
You can hurt the guy hitting you with a Club, but not the guy hitting you with a chair leg.

Funny, I'd say if the guy just attacked with a chair leg that you could indeed smash the leg and hurt him. But if he was merely holding the leg, you couldn't.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
except for that rule that says the same action doesn't provoke twice. He's casting a spell. He doesn't suffer two aoos for it

He does and he always did.

Not the same action. One is casting a spell (provoke) and another is makign a ranged attack (provoke.)

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Thanks for the link DM Sothal. So it is a rules team member's opinion that if you throw a weapon it is not a melee weapon at that point. So things that work for melee weapon attacks wouldn't help. Namely Impact.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Melkiador wrote:
It's more a question of "Is a favored class bonus a class feature?" They certainly aren't listed with the class features.

Considering Paizo thinks of every bonus you can gain from a class as a class feature, including things like "Class Skills" changes. I think it is safe to consider a favored class bonus you gain from taking a class, a class feature. I do/will and I consider it RAW.

Melkiador wrote:
Common sense can be rendered worthless in PFS.

Actually, common sense is used liberally in PFS. Run the rules as written, with heavy doses of RAI to fix any possible issue like excessively pedantic readings that render FCB as no-ops.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Link to developer that disagrees with you Imbicatus and Alexander Augunas . Seems to be this question?


Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

When thrown, you are not wielding as a one handed weapon.

Keep in mind, there is table variance on this with the "no" side being very passionate and the "yes" side being more well it could be read that way.

So ultimately it is an Ask your GM question.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Neo2151 wrote:
Is it something else?

It is "if it directly impacts them and they would rather you not do it" then it is an attack.

Edit: Facepalm for not noticing it was already answered.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

The list is:

  • Different Bonus Types
  • Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths
  • Same Effect with Differing Results
  • One Effect Makes Another Irrelevant
  • Multiple Mental Control Effects
  • Spells with Opposite Effects
  • Instantaneous Effects

None of those cover Entangle until they fail the same.

So if you get 5 entangles, 5 saves. If you fail 2 or more they won't stack under One Effect Makes Another Irrelevant.

This is a common tactic in a lot of adventures. Throw 6 harpies and make the party roll 6 times. Throw 4 bunyips and make then roll 4 times. Roll 12 gorgon rolls and make them make 12 save of petrify. All these examples are in modules I've played or ran (in the combat advice.)

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

It is a shaman favored class bonus. It will be on your spells known and spell list.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
James Risner wrote:
Only weapon, shield and armor can have damage dealt to the controller.
If you want to get technical - can't nearly anything be an improvised weapon?

Only if they wielded it as such on their last turn.

I can only assume you joking, because I'd give you a sturn look in game if you tried to say that... ;-)

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Each time is this round. Next round, the next round. All day long.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Only weapon, shield and armor can have damage dealt to the controller.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

DM_Blake wrote:
this seems the simplest solution to me.

Are you suggesting we all just "consider it moved" or that they errata a moved comma?

Because in practice, I simply stopped playing Overrun characters in PFS. Nearly every table used different interpretations for the various Overrun related feats I had.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

graystone wrote:

the limitation as only mattering at enchantment while other see it as a continuing restriction on the enchantment

It could use a FAQ but it hasn't managed to get one yet.

Yes those are the main two positions

Yes it could use a FAQ.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

graystone wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
However, by strict RAW, it will only function when wielded as a melee weapon, not when thrown

I'd argue against "strict RAW" restricting it's function to melee use.

I'd agree with expecting table variation.

I'd agree with "strict RAW" it only works as melee and not thrown.

Expect table variance ;-)

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

I tuned out for a while. Have we settled on anything?

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

There are a ton of threads with 40 to 100 faq about Overrun.
We have a promise in 2009 from Jason to fix it in next printing, but it is as of yet unfixed.

This question on charging isn't the only Overrun questions. There are questions (table variance) with Charge Through, Elephant Stomp, Greater Overrun and more I can't remember right now.

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

Ask your GM?

Scarab Sages Owner - D20 Hobbies

alexd1976 wrote:
It allows for it. You can take it more than once. Can't apply twice to one animal though.


Mostly I was pointing out that you can't take a feat unless the feat itself sets out rules on how it can be taken.

This feat says only on different animals, for example.

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