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One more rule on the PVP I forgot to mention but is extremely relevant.
You have 3 teams to fight, but you don't have spell memorization in between. So a spellcaster has to decide which spells to use when and during which team.
So if you nova early, you will be doing the later fights with daggers doing 1d4 damage.
I actually assumed you might have used Virtuoso Performance to maintain Inspire Courage and still use Weird Words.
Wow, I didn't know about that spell. Good idea.
What was banned in the pvp tournament?
It just had it's 12th year, so they built up over time. Off the top of my head this is what I can remember:
Wall of Force on all surfaces (no Earth Melding Druids.)
Aracne strike specify weapons.
Everything in the game that uses an attack roll and deals damage is weapon like, so they always work with things like Arcane Strike, Point Blank Strike, etc. But if you don't agree, SKR did agree.
How you get 1d8+18 damage per word? Wasnt it 1d8+cha mod? even with specialization im not sure how you got those numbers
Can't Inspire cause it ends when you WW.
+11 CHA, +2 from Good Hope, +1 from PBS, +3 Arcane Strike, +1 moral from trait.
Hmmm... Im not very sure a PVP match where caster gets unlimited out of combat turns to buff is balanced
I apologize for not explaining the competition. Everyone got just two rounds of buffs. Only two buffs went into damage (Cognagen and Good Hope). I managed more than one buff a round due to money spent and class/race options chosen.
Again, can't use Inspire Courage with WW. I didn't use Profane gift, maybe I should. I didn't know about it. Can't use courageous (I don't agree with the community on how it reads.) I also don't agree with the Community interpretation of Weird Words, and did this build as an example of it's brokenness. I did do quicken buffs.
Alexander Augunas wrote:
I built the character last year. Sorry I missremembered. It was a CL 12 Paladin Scroll (2nd level Paladin spell.) Bestow Grace. Couldn't use the 7th level Cleric spell due to requiring CL 13 and you couldn't use any item or spell using CL 13 or higher. So no Candles of Invocation, Prayer Beads, etc.
CHA with Cognagen was 33, so +11 from Cha. If I had 27k I'd have bought a +1 Inherent bonus Tome and made it CHA 34.
What class levels did you he's to pull that off? Those spells aren't on the bard's spell list.
Level 10 Magician Bard, Level 1 Oracle (CHA to CMD/Reflex), Level 1 Mindchemist Alchemist (Cognagen)Also my UMD was +35 so I'd make any check from anything on the UMD chart on a 1.
Although I think Bestow Grace was technically illegal due to the restriction on alignment-dependent spells and effects.
It passed audit, but if it were an issues the easiest fix is to switch the build to be 2 levels of Paladin (for their level 2 ability.) I'd lose CHA to CMD and +2 to saves/damage (due to no cognagen.) It wouldn't have materially changed the build too much.
The key point is this ability is simply too strong if interpreted the way most interpret it.
At that level, with an AC of 22, Touch AC of 16, saves Fort +10, Ref +20, Will +15, your PC would have been missing saves, and probably found out that there are plenty of things that could take you out in one "shot", as well. How much does a Disintegrate at that level do if you make the save?
I didn't make this clear, but I play in this competition every year for 7 years straight. The person hosting it has ran it I think 15 years now.
You pretty much don't bother doing a guy if you can't get saves on Fort to +18 or more and Will to +18 or more. I had a ring of evasion so I didn't plan on taking damage from Reflex save for half.
It is a 12th level thing, so you get all effects up to 6th level spells. You also wouldn't ever use Disentigrate. It is save or take 17.5 damage. You must assume they are going to make every save, or you risk just outright dying. The wizard/witch team had a save DC of 32 for their confusion spell. That is typically about a 50% chance to fail in the competition.
The teams this year (as I remember them):
Oscar Mild wrote:
Well, most agree that Weird Words is unbalanced, at least as most have been interpreting it.
Fun times! I play a PVP competition every year at GenCon and this year I played a Sound Striker Bard using the "all on one" interpretation as set out by the GM of the competition. I won.I never took a single point of damage and never failed a save (AC 40 Touch AC 34, saves Fort +28, Ref +38, Will +33) due to Cha to AC/CMD/all saves (Nerid's Grace/Bestow Grace.)
From what I could tell of the other 11 entrances, the only one that out did me in damage is a Named Bullet Gunslinger and that was only by a small margin.
10x 1d8+18 attacks is devastation. Strips 10 mirror images quickly and outright kills pretty much every person who entered whether or not they made their save. For reference, I missed only one attack when attacking. Touch AC is hard to optimize and I had +18 to hit.
If there was any doubt the ability needs changed, then I can demonstrate to you how there should be. ;-)
Backbreaker Mail. It should be a piece of cake but you keep avoiding answering it, almost like it isn't clear cut like you want it to be.
I'll give it a shot.
Mechanically it transmutations into a generic maw to constrict. The form of the maw is covered up with more elaborate illusion effects.
Also, I don't think you understanding what "adding" words means. I added no words to reach my conclusion. Literally 0. Which is important.
You don't know what it means.
You want a certain interpretation, you add words (default words) to the meaning to get your desired outcome.
When called out on it you say it means whatever you like and you can't show proof but point at ambiguous text and claim proof provided.
When given an FAQ illustrating how you do this you claim it supports your interpretation.
You don't need to add "from any list" to get that interpretation
You absolutely do, and there is a FAQ that agrees with me.
This is where you are adding words based on your interpretation of RAW.
Just the same as you adding words to the Cracked Orange Ioun Stone, you are adding words to the Sleeves of Many Garments such as "and you gain the mechanical benefits of the illusion taken".
My position doesn't try to add words to the interpretation. Hence, RAW.
You are adding words. Just like the position on the Cracked Orange Ioun Stone that allows any spell from any spell list.
Cracked Orange: wrote:
Wearer adds one cantrip or orison (determined when the stone is created) to his list of spells known or spells prepared. Price: 1,000 gp.
To get any spell from any list you must add "from any spell list" to this ability. Why? Because those words don't exist and without them you are limited to your class spell list. This is backed up by the recent FAQ on adding spells to your spell list. This has been the way all of Pathfinder and 3.5 handled extra spells (look at the feat Extra Spell in 3.5 one of the "Complete" books for another example of an ability that didn't say "from any spell list" and was interpreted to be from any spell list until a FAQ came along to clarify.)
You also wouldn't assert your logic on Enlarge Person. It says "Target one humanoid creature" so by this logic it is RAW that it works on anything that has the general shape of biped with two arms standing upright.
I am willing to presume that they are arguing in good faith, despite my growing suspicions to the contrary.
With your "entitled to be wrong" comments, I no longer think you are debating in good faith.
Pretty much everyone in here is willing to accept "there are two or more interpretations, expect table variance until the FAQ is answered."
You seem the be the only one who is saying "I'm right, you all are wrong".
Another way to look at this:
If this allows you to gain mechanical benefit by transforming into Cold Weather or Swarmsuits then why can't you gain mechanical benefits like immunity to mind-affecting by transforming into a plant with Plant Shape. You actually take the form of the plant. Why don't you also get the immunities.
The same reason this item doesn't grant you the "immunities" (aka protection from swarms) of the swarmsuit.
I've actually listed rules that explain why my interpretation is correct.
The problem is that we don't agree those rules say what you say they do. We differ on the RAW of those rules.
You can't accept that there might be two interpretations, so you assert that your way is the one true RAW and when shown that you are doing so you belittle those that can't read the "plain facts" as you put it.
Yes there have been comments by devs on this point.
The Crossblooded and Wildblooded FAQ may also touch on this point.
replacing any animal companion or mount gained from another class
So you can't choose anything but what is listed by the Mammoth Rider class. At least that is my view.
There are three views a GM could take:
You miss the case of a Tiefling that has Fiendish Sorcery and his bloodline is not Abyssal or Infernal. This feat allows him to gain the +2 CHA with other bloodlines. You can take the feat but if you are not "using" it you gain no benefit. For example: You can take Power Attack and never make an attack using it.
The Sleeves are designed for clothing, all the clothing in the Core and UE follow a similar format. The gnome clothing follows this same format. The Swarmsuit does not.
So Dilettante's Outfit's aren't clothes? They aren't on page 88 to 91 of UE...
They are in clothing in the ARG. Since they use the same format and language as the clothing in the Core.
If you don't like the RAW, then perhaps organized play is not for you.
The problem is we differ on what the RAW is. There is no one true RAW. You don't get to dictate the interpretation of rules that don't have ironclad rules. This is a case of non-iron clad rules. I'm very happy saying you are welcome to use your interpretation of RAW and I won't object. I'm objecting to the notion that you can say the other interpretation isn't RAW and is invalid.
However, I was wondering about basic abilities that seem normal for the form such as echolocation for a bat. If they don't get it then she would be blind in a cave. What are your thoughts?
You retain normal vision at all times. You only lose Low Light and Darkvision if the form doesn't have them.
The spells provide Blindsense or Blindsight (depending on spell) if the form you take has them.
If it isn't on page 88 to 91 of UE and resembles a garment, I wouldn't allow the sleeves to change the appearance.
Diego Rossi wrote:
I think it is only a illusory effect, so all the other questions are moot but the item description, the spell used in crafting it and the magic school of its aura clash and there is a basis for both opinions.
I also firmly believe it is an illusion.
Obviously there are two sides to this. Some believe anything that mentions clothing even if not in the clothing section works and some believe it isn't an illusion.
There isn't anything we can use to prove who is right, there is enough ambiguity in the rules text to go either way. If we do choose some of the liberal interpretations then non-humanoid creatures that have the shape of humanoid should be able to Enlarge Person. I don't believe anyone in here thinks that is true.
David knott 242 wrote:
You might want to report this as a possible bug to Hero Lab. There seems to be nothing in the actual rules to support that implementation.
I played a fighter for over a year from 1st to 12th without it ever occurring to me that I could split the choice each level.
So who ever is right (locked in or change each level), there are people who interpret it each way.
Having this answered would help a lot of situation. Specifically, the HeroLab folks don't change their rules interpretations without a FAQ or errata. If they did they would be changing things and changing them back every day. Since there are so many things subject to interpretation in the game that are unanswered in the rules.
Turns out this particular rule has a fair number of people on either side of the debate.
I don't know which way it should be ruled, but we don't have direct guidance (to my knowledge) whether or not you can skip ahead to the third in the chain by skipping the first and/or second.
It isn't clothing like the Monk outfit, Explorer outfit, etc.
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
As opposed to the 'attack action' which (in 3rd ed) would be
3.5 had exactly the same language.
The 3.5 Player's Handbook on page 139 said "Standard Actions" ... "Attack - Making an attack is a standard action"
Nothing has changed in the language, the understanding, or use of the attack action since 3.5 to now.
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
That does no such thing. It shows that attack action isn't a full attack action.
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
the author wants the Sohei to be able to flurry with any weapon in which he has Weapon Training, and even those who don't think that a Sohei can do this until he has 6 Sohei levels must surely realise that he can do it when he does have 6 Sohei levels!
He can't do it until 6th level Sohei and at 6th he can only do it with weapons he has Sohei Weapon Training.
GM Arkwright wrote:
Is there any actual ruling on whether a spell placed in a Ring of Spell Knowledge is permanent, or whether it can be swapped out for a new one?
My view: Permanent, since there are no rules for changing.
Since there are no rules either way, it is acceptable for some to view it as changeable. So ultimately, ask your GM.
I can't say I followed you nor know your conclusion.
But if your conclusion is that you can two hand a weapon and attack with unarmed strike with a humanoid with two base hands, then your conclusion didn't follow the set out logic.
You have a primary hand and a off hand. Pick how you want to use them. If you have non-claw natural weapons then you can also take those attacks. But you can't use claws extra nor can you grow an arm and take another attack (unarmed strike, armor spikes, or whatever.)
Bob Bob Bob wrote:
Doesn't need to do so. Quit trying to be so pedantic in reading the rules, that is where half the silly RAW interpretations arise.
It works on armor and shields, so you get armor bonuses and shield bonuses depending on whether it is on an armor or a shield.
be absolutely sure that they understood your question and that you understood their answer and this isn't all just a matter of miscommunication.
You wouldn't believe how often this can be an issue. I'd do this via Facebook or email and not "just before a game starts" so they have plenty of time to reply with thought.
James, Do you know where I can find this post?
No but it was a 3 second search:JJ Saying you good as a monk wildshaped
Bob Bob Bob wrote:
I don't think Wild actually works for a shield.
It works for shield because it opens with working with shields.
This is just like all the magical effects language says spell but we know clearly it refers to magical effects like Sp/Su/etc that interact with spells. Most things come from spells the same as most armor comes from armor bonus. We know it works with them because the section title is spells and magical effects.
Nothing said it but real world dynamics... a man with a broken glass bottle will not have the same reach as say a man with a ladder.
Guess what? This game doesn't care about real world physics or dynamics. It has elves and fireball.
So unless a rule says "you gain reach with an improvised weapon" then there is absolutely no improvised reach weapon.
But aren't the abilities altered by the fact that they're now a list of options instead of a hard ability?
Q monk is an exception to the normal archetype rules. It is the only archetype that if taken and you make no choices, it is a no-op. It won't do anything to your Monk if you don't choose to swap out something for options it provides.
So with that knowledge, the FAQ about Q monk, you know that until you swap something out you have not altered anything. Having not altered anything, you do not fall prey to the "replace or alter" rule.
Edit: Crap I didn't see this whole thing was necroed.
It was my understanding that I would have both my Wild Armor/Shield bonuses, as well as the Monk AC armor bonus while wildshaped, since I would not count as wearing armor while polymorphed for the effects of the Monk AC. Is this true?
Yes true. There is a JJ post explaining this is true and is true because the Wild armor special costs +3 and the cost is because of things like this.
Classes are written with single class in mind. Your GM is misreading the BAB rule in FoM. You add your BAB from other classes.
If you can't convince your GM this is true, you need to rebuild your character. Because you are not likely to see a reply to this as a FAQ. It isn't a heavily debated issue (there are not many that think like your GM) and FAQ are not answered quickly.