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Itchy's page

Goblin Squad Member. 844 posts (1,030 including aliases). 29 reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 1 alias.


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Whitehowl79 wrote:

Is there an order in which I should read the Pathfinder Novels and Pathfinder Web Fiction?

Also are there any that take place in Varisia?

There is no set order for reading them. Here is an unofficial Pathfinder Fiction Chronology that I have been somewhat maintaining. I was trying to get it all up on the Pathfinder Wiki, but then we had another child arrive in our home and my time has been constricted.

Generally, the associated Web Fiction is a prequel to the novel. Any and all novels can be read out of order, however, you might want to read novels that share the same characters in the order that they were published.

Stories set in Varisia:
In the Event of my Untimely Demise and Blood of the City are set in Magnimar.

The Box and Light of a Distant Star are set in Magnimar and Riddleport respectively.

In King of Chaos the barbarian tribes living on the edge of/in the Worldwound call summoners "God Callers" and they call their gods. It would seem that the same god (eidolon) is called by successive generations of god callers (summoners).

I also had an idea to play a summoner/eidolon relationship a little bit like The Ventriloquist/Scarface from Batman. Except they would be good or neutral aligned instead of being evil. Either way, the eidolon would be the one in control of the relationship, not the summoner. I haven't had a chance to play it yet...

Digging up an old debate:

I've been rereading OOTS lately and I ran across this reference in strip 364 where Roy's sister implies that he "couldn't cut it" as a spellcaster. Possibly more to show that he might have been the one experimenting when his little brother was killed.

A comment on the artwork for this chapter:
I think it is excellent the way that the artist drew Rhodel's ghost to look very similar to the artwork for Rhodel from The Secret of the Rose and Glove. Granted the ghost's dress is shorter, but both have the laces up the front, the dark green dress (hard to be sure it's green when you can see through it, but I think it is), and the bracelet on one wrist.

Kudos to both artists!

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After the GREAT response I got to running some of the AP plug-in adventures, and just how absolutely gorgeous the Gothic Campaign Compendium I got from that Kickstarter is; I wanted to support this one. Someday I want to run a Mythic Campaign and these would be a great assett to that, but I can't get it in the budget.

So, I supported at the $5 level. I may be able to increase to get a PDF towards the end. But I hope that support for this Kickstarter goes through the roof!

MightyJim wrote:
Are the "Pathfinder's Journal" bits available anywhere else? (i.e. online, or as novels/downloads in themselves) - I've just got into the Card Game, but I'm not a Roleplayer, so buying the whole set of adventure paths just to read the stories doesn't sound particularly economical

You are absolutely correct! It would be ridiculous to buy all the AP books just to read the fiction. Most of the AP fiction has been released as an ePub here. They have also released much of the Web Fiction in the same place. Essentially, if it's $0.99, it's a Web Fiction; if it costs more, it's AP fiction.

Here are the direct links for the AP fiction.

The Compass Stone is the Pathfinder Journals from Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness.

Hell's Pawns is the fiction from Council of Thieves.

Dark Tapestry is the fiction from Legacy of Fire.

Prodigal Sons is the fiction from Kingmaker.

Plague of Light is the fiction from Serpent Skull.

Guilty Blood is the fiction from Carrion Crown.

Husks is the fiction from Jade Regent.

Light of a Distant Star is the fiction from Shattered Star.

The Treasure of Far Thallai is the fiction from Skull and Shackles.

The fiction from Reign of Winter and Wrath of the Rightous has not been released as an ePub yet.

My continued thoughts. Spoilers within!

Through Chapter 20:
When I read Jendara's initial interactions with Gerda, my initial reaction was, "Ugh. Not another character who has been burned by religion and has no use for the gods (or in this case, the faith she was raised with)." Then I got to chapter 20 where Jendara rediscovers her faith and it was like a breath of fresh air! As a person who intentionally abandoned and later rediscovered the faith tradition I was raised in, it was nice to meet a character who is like me!

Kalira on the other hand, prayed and prayed to anything that might hear her and was eventually answered by something else. Something EEeevil! I have decided that she must be a witch.

The love interest between Jendara and Vorrin is, a little cheesy, but I don't think it negatively effects the story.

The Isle of Ancestors strikes me as having a doorway to the first world, or maybe the barrier is just thinner there.

Agreed. Username Babadevdutt posted a metric TON of spam. I flagged a few, but I saw about 10 or 15 posts of spam.

Crystal Frasier wrote:

Crystal: Inner Sea Gods and Inner Sea Combat are coming out at the same time. Does this mean we can finally settle who would win in a fight?

Crystal: Like, who would win in a fight, Shelyn or Calistria?

Robot: ...

Robot: BEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeees!

Crystal: You make a compelling argument.

Though they stare down the supernatural every day (with the help of some liquor), Frank and Sadie Doyle are, in fact afraid of bees. It's true. Just check out Beyond Belief on the Thrilling Adventure Hour Podcast!

Congratulations Owen! Your presence at Paizo will make it easier for me to convince my group to let me play a RGG class.
"It was written by a Paizo developer!" carries a lot of weight with them.

I stand corrected, by a real editor no less! I also learned something new today.

Regarding Skinwalkers: in my head, all the inhabitants of the Ironbound Archipelago (except Jendara and the crew of Milady) speak with my Grandfather's Swedish lilt. I don't know if they were supposed to be written that way, but that's the voice they have for me.

Is Jendara's sister a Moon Oracle? Or is she a witch? She feels a little like both. No curse, though. I'm thinking that she's a witch and the bird is her familiar.

Shadowborn wrote:
Mama's only got one arm...

Maybe she lost it in a heated battle with a particularly severe tree root incursion.

I am halfway through the book. I'm going to spoiler the rest of my post to avoid... spoiling people who haven't read it, I guess.

includes spoilers of other books!:
So far I am really enjoying the book. Is there quite a bit of gore? Yes. Is it just a touch disturbing? Yes. Is it over-the-top? I don't think so. The horror, gore and level of disturbing in this book is no worse than the vampire-thing in Prince of Wolves or the Demons ripping cultists apart in The Worldwound Gambit.

The reference to rape in the book is, I think, appropriate, given what the Kalvamen are and what Vikings did historically.

I have noticed more errors in the text that would likely have been caught in another editing pass than I normally see in PF Tales novels. For example, the word "revenge" was used when it should have been "avenge." Occasionally an article is left out that would make things more clear. Usually my brain figures it out and fills it in. If I wasn't reading the book mainly while walking to work or feeding the baby at 2AM, I would mark down the errors for correction in the digital version (and future printed versions).

Anyway, there's my thoughts so far. The book is certainly "R" rated, but no worse than some of the other PF Tales novel. When I finish the book, I'll get a review up. Right now, I'm thinking that it's a 4 star novel.

When I took the map out of Wardens of the Reborn forge, the glue took a little bit of the back cover off. Just a tiny bit, smaller than a printed letter, maybe the size of the "belly" of a lower-case "a".

I have not tried to remove the map from Tears at Bitter Manor yet. The box was really cold when I brought it inside, and I figured I would let the glue warm to room temp. That was about a month ago and I still have not taken the time to try.

Disclaimer: I have not read ubiquitous's above post yet as I have not yet read Skinwalkers. However, I have read all of the other Pathfinder Tales novels, except The Dagger of Trust (I am currently rereading all of Dave Gross' Pathfinder stories so all other books have been on hold).

There is definitely darkness and mature content in the other novels. WARNING: SPOILERS FOR EVERY BOOK MENTIONED!

The Worldwound Gambit:
I have compared The Worldwound Gambit to the Alien films because there is a significant amount of H.R. Giger-esque biological grossness of demons in it. There is also a significant amount of death and dismemberment in the book. The novel also deals with substance abuse issues. One of the characters has sex with another character, it is observed by a third character.

Blood of the City:
At one point in the book, a character gets dropped feet first into what amounts to a wood-chipper. They get almost waist deep in it before they manage to stop it.

This book contains scenes of torture (they worship Zon-Kuthon!), weird oracle-ish folks who have had their limbs removed and have REALLY long tongues. Ick! Disturbing!

Liar's Blade:
Zaquen cuts the eyes out of people that she kills and "feeds" them to her familar. Also, she kills folks with the Black Tentacles spell, a rather nasty way to die. Also, Hrym expresses pleasure at the sensation of being plunged through the guts of a humanoid. It is likened to sex.

I'm not turned off by a little bit of mature content in a book. That said, to date I would rate all of the Pathfinder Tales (except The Worldwound Gambit, which I rated as R for violence and disturbing imagery) as being PG rated under the US's MPAA rating guide. It sounds like Skinwalkers might get another "R" rating. I started Queen of Thorns last night. I think I will put it down to read Skinwalkers so that I can chime in on this debate more relevantly.

I will certainly let you know what I think after I'm done reading it. I may chime in here with spoilered posts as I read to let you know what I am thinking as I read it.

I got mine the other day Aleron. Thank you very very much! I read through it and it looks pretty fun! I think I'll throw one at my PC's as a villain. :D

Cerulean Seas is an amazing and beautiful product.

Liar's Blade:
Hrym in Liar's Blade is not only a sword, he is also a White Dragon. Sort of. It's complicated. You should read the book.

Interjection Games wrote:

I'm not sure the levels of translation will be worth it, Ciaran. You're suggesting a table that says "The Two of Clubs is The Censure" and then you have to look up The Censure, yes?

How would you compare that level of annoyance with cutting out ten pages of paper and using those same cards as backs with some penny sleeves to keep it all together?

I think it sounds like a fun idea for a class. I agree that it would make things easier to tie the cards to some form of commercially available cards.

I like the idea of being able to print out the cards and attach them in some form to playing cards (which are relatively inexpensive). I also like the idea of connecting them with the Tarot deck (though I understand Changing Man's objection, too).

My suggestion would be to do both. Have the last pages of the pdf be the deck, sized to fit on/with playing cards (per your idea above), but have all the cards also correspond to the Tarot deck and Playing card deck via a table. See for example the Deck of Illusions and the Deck of Many Things.

That way, cheap players like me could print out the cards, cut them out and use them [glue/tape/insert into penny sleeves with] standard playing cards (or just use the playing cards themselves). Those who want to print them out on cardstock can do so (maybe design a card back as well?). Players who want to pay for POD could go that route. Players who want to use a Tarot/Harrow deck can go that route.

You could even release a free supplement under the Creative Use License that uses the Harrow specifically (or submit a refit of the class that uses the Harrow to Wayfinder).

Those are my thoughts.

RE: Selling physical decks of cards:
Also, if you really want to go the route of printing up actual decks of cards, I would encourage you to reach out to Gary McBride of Fire Mountain Games, since he Kickstarted a deck of cards recently. I get the impression that it was not as easy as it seemed like it should be. I'd also encourage you to reach out to the publishers of Cheapass Games since they just finished the Pairs Kickstarter (a pub game that uses a deck of cards) and are in the process of getting lots and lots of cards printed. Both could give you advice in that department.

I keep all my eBooks in a single folder on my computer. I dragged them all into iTunes, checked the "sync all books" box at the top and synced my iPad. Everything went in just fine.

The 8th Dwarf wrote:

We had a pure white cat called Daisy - she passed away last year she was very very old. She was my wife's cat. Even though don't think we should have cats as pets in Australia as they devastate native animal populations, I did love Daisy and much to my wife's annoyance Daisy had designated me as her human.

My daughters have been asking for a new pet, we have just had a baby so we are going to wait a year or two.

Spoilered to avoid derailing the purpose of the thread:

@8th Dwarf:
There are a lot of native Australian arthropods that make great pets. I did a quick search for "Insect pets Australia" and found a site that sells insects, arachnids, and isopods (millipedes and pillbugs). I find that arthropods are great pets for kids. Not only are they educational, but the kids lose (or never get) the "bugs are gross!" mentality that pervades much of the first world.

Regardless, if you can get something that's not invasive, that's best. My justification for keeping tropical roaches is that I live in New England. If they ever escape, they will surely die in November!

I don't take my Hissers gaming with me! ;) However, they may reside in the same room in which my gaming group meets. *evil grin* But I would never try to sneak them into food without someone knowing it. I might try to apply a LITTLE peer pressure to get someone to eat one, but not too hard. When my wife brought about 2 dozen cooked ones to a church fair, they were all eaten by the end.

I'm not sure if I'm number 10 or not, but, sure! If I'm in, I'm game. If I'm too late, I'm not offended.

I'll PM you with my DTRPG info. If I see something new and exciting pop up in my email. I'll do a happy dance. If nothing new and exciting pops up in my email, I'll enjoy a hot refreshing sip of my morning coffee anyway. :D

We have a single cat that we rescued from my parent's other cats. She is very sweet, but doesn't stand up for herself, so she was at the bottom of the pecking order. As a single cat she's great and very happy!

We also have a 20 gallon tank of Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches. We started with 6 sub adults. A year later, we traded all but 12 to a reptile pet store for a new 20 gallon tank. The roaches are great pets for toddlers.
-They don't get injured if you drop one.
-They don't bite.
-They don't carry transmittable diseases.
-They make noise.
-They are edible. (I recommend freezing sub-adults overnight, bake with a little olive oil and some seasoning, pull off the legs before you eat them. CRUNCHY!!)
-They eat vegetable scraps, so they are cheap to feed.
-If one gets stepped on, oops! You still have 199+ more.

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DeathQuaker wrote:
For example, Crypt of the Everflame is older now, but it's still a GREAT introductory Pathfinder adventure, but a GM who picked it up would not be able to get the useful dungeon map that accompanies it, and the new dungeon maps and map packs are cool but can't recreate that specific dungeon. So then this hypothetical new GM has more work cut out for him just because he didn't come on board at the right time when the Everflame dungeon map was still available. It's kind of a shame.

This is the very reason that I picked up a "scratch 'n dent" copy of this flip mat during the 12th man sale. This is the module that I run to introduce players to Pathfinder (especially if they have played 3.5 D&D). I wanted to be sure I don't have to draw out the map again!

I would probably be interested in themed bundles as well, depending upon my budget.

Callous Jack wrote:
Just out of curiosity, would people prefer a complete set? Even if it used many of the same minis from the Summon Monster set?

My preference would be for the cheaper option: to be able to buy SNA or SM and then but a cheaper supplement to bring me up to the full complement of Summonable creatures. However, I can appreciate the simplicity of just selling each set, complete, even though there are duplicates of multiple animals between the two sets.

The reason I outlined the idea of the "supplement," is that, this being the internet, SOMEONE would buy both and then cry, "I bought both sets, and there were a TON of duplicate animals! Paizo is ripping off their fans with these sets!"

Either way, I will buy both. As Tamago and Hayato Ken stated, it would be nice if the creatures were arranged in such a way that we didn't have to print up a bunch of duplicates if we didn't want/need them.

Kairos Dawnfury wrote:
Squee! From the rumblings of Mr. Sutter, I may need to start subcribing to the Tales line...

Come on... Drink the Flavor-Aid. Everyone else is doing it!

I have not regretted subscribing. Never regretted it. In fact, if I were to choose ONE subscription to keep and drop all the others, I would keep the fiction subscription.

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I enjoyed this story quite a bit. I'm looking forward to reading Skinwalkers even more now.

Jendara is one awesome mom.

I like Sanwah68's idea: Copy all the SNA monsters out of this product, make new art for the SNA creatures that aren't on the SM spell list. Slap it all together, spank it on the bottom and sell it to me for another $10. I'll pay it, and be thankful for it!

I suppose they could even sell two different products:

1: Summon Nature's Ally - containing all of the Summon Nature's Ally monsters (as stated above)

2: Summon Nature's Ally supplement to Summon Monster - containing only the Animals that are not common to both spell sets. The idea is that if you have already bought THIS product, you can buy a lower priced SNA Supplement to get to you to the full complement of SNA creatures.

I suppose you could also sell a Third Product:

3: Summon Monster Supplement - containing only the Summon Monster creatures that are not also on the SNA list. Buy the Summon Monster Supplement if you already bought the full Summon Nature's Ally set, but now need the rest of the creatures for your Summon Monster Spell.

Personally, I would play Bard, because I have had a LOT of fun playing the party Bard. With wands of Cure Light, you can easily be the party healer. The buffs are great for everyone. Bardic Knowledge is awesome if you need to make knowledge checks.

Just my 2 cents.

sanwah68 wrote:
Could we please have a Summon Nature's Ally set, even if it is one that just fills in the missing ones, and reuses the artwork for the ones that crossover between SM and SNA.

What Sanwah68 said: please make a Summon Nature's Ally set. I would buy that one too!!

Broggly wrote:
This is the first paper minis set I've downloaded, and I'm not sure how the gargantuan ones are supposed to be put together. Can anyone describe it, or at least link me to some pictures of what they're supposed to look like when assembled?

Broggly, download the Pathfinder Paper Minis Instructions to get you started. I have not yet purchased this product (awaiting next paycheck), but I assume that the Gargantuan minis work just like the Small and Medium minis, only larger...

DLandonCole wrote:

Big thumbs up. This is going to be really useful.

You know, it would be fun to see these as pawns, too... Never satisfied, are we?

Fortunately for you, you can have your cake and eat it too for one low price and a little work!

Here is how to make pawns from paper minis.

Callous Jack wrote:
Itchy wrote:

Any plans to do Carrion Crown paper minis?

Ask Liz. :)

Okay! Hey, Liz, are there any plans to make Paper Minis for the Carrion Crown AP? If they are made, I will buy them!

Callous Jack wrote:

Thanks Liz! And thank you guys, I hope this set proves useful. :)

Itchy, the set does include a Viper, Goblin Dog, Hyena, Grizzly Bear and Ape. I'll talk to Liz about adding the ones that are missing. Thanks for the help!

DOH! How did I miss seeing the Viper and the Grizzly Bear in the list? *faceplam*

Goblin Dog, Hyena and Ape are not listed in the spoiler at this time. Dire Ape is listed.

Edit:I searched long and hard for Goblin Dog in the list, thinking, "I KNOW I saw Goblin Dog on the first read through. Where did it GO?" I just looked again at the cover image, and THERE is the Goblin Dog!

Was the intent of the product to fill both spell lists? Based on the list of included creatures, it looks like that may have been the intent. Regardless, this is probably one of the most generally useful Paper Mini products in Paizo's Paper Mini's line. At least, it will be for my group. We have two players (in two different games) playing summon heavy classes (a Druid and a Wizard). Also, there is a lack of animal minis available, and none are THIS affordable!

And, yes, I'm buying this when my next paycheck comes in.

Kajehase wrote:
Itchy wrote:
Lots of fun so far, but who is Al? Is he one of the blackravens? :p
I'm betting he's someone's long lost pal.

Actually, I was wondering what good Al thought his accordion would be against a Winter Wolf. Hmmm... maybe he's a Bard, he certainly casts Hideous Laughter on me often enough!

Seriously, though. I figured that if I point it out now, it will be fixed by the time it gets sold as an ePub (which I'll buy), and then it won't bug me every time I see it!

Thank you, kindly, Mr Sutter!

Even though there are some monsters from the Summon Nature's Ally list not included, I'll probably pick this up. At the very least, it will give me MOST of what I'll use Summon Nature's Ally to summon. Also, it will give us a bunch of animals that we don't have minis for.

Animals on Summon Nature's Ally list that are not included:
-Goblin Dog
-Giant Crab
-Giant Stag Beetle
-Grizzly Bear
-Hill Giant
-Dinosaur, Stegosaurus
-Stone Giant
-Fire Giant
-Frost Giant
-Cloud Giant
-Purple Worm
-Storm Giant

Lord Fyre wrote:
Endzeitgeist wrote:
Yes, I think so. While it does not feature naval combat, it's a great horror-themed ship adventure. And hard. So yes, Skull and Shackles and Razor Coast benefit from having this one added.

I've heard some complaints about the "navel combat" system in Skull & Shackles, so that might be a good thing ...

... unless I can get my GM to invest in Fire as she Bears.

A friend of mine is running Skull and Shackles. I gave the group a copy of Fire as she Bears, but they decided to go with the system as written in the AP. I have not heard any complaints from them about it.

I am not a player in that game, and I have not read the AP yet, so I cannot comment on the quality of the system.


Is it Thursday yet?

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I just finished running this adventure last night. My players had a LOT of fun, and were running very low on resources by the end of it.

They ended up succeeding on a Disarm combat manueuver to take the fiddle away. Before she could fight back to take the fiddle back, the party fighter and monk dropped her to negative HP.

At the end of the night, everyone was grinning about how much fun they had over the last 2 sessions. When I mentioned that this segment had been a 3PP plug-in, they were surprised. "Wait, that WASN'T part of the AP as published? How far through the first book ARE we?"

I'm working on getting a review written...

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Lots of fun so far, but who is Al? Is he one of the blackravens? :p

Winter Wolves wrote:
Irlu swung up onto her saddle. She looked unhappy. "Looks like we caught up with it after al."

Seriously, though, I may pause in the book that I'm reading to read Skinwalkers. This fiction and the sample chapter have been that much fun.

Liz Courts wrote:
Itchy wrote:
I'm assuming that, like the last hardcover, this is not part of the subscription?
Unless something changes, that is correct.

Thanks, Liz! Preordered.

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I really like these animal minis! Today I was talking about Pathfinder with my 4 year old and he said (in that 4-year-old, matter-of-fact way) that I need to tell "the people who make the minis that they should make a Snowy Owl and send one to you."

I told him that I would certainly tell them. :) So, Eric Mona, you now have an advance order for a Snowy Owl miniature from a future Pathfinder player!

This winter New England has seen an influx of Snowy Owls. They are currently my son's favorite bird.

Adventureaweek wrote:
How about drooling over some limited edition collectible Snow White dice? ;)

Are those dice made of metal?

I was actually pretty glad to hear that this project was being delayed. It gives me a little time to save up for it!

Ghaleonausa wrote:
I am going to definitly pick this up but am curious if the summon monster also includes the alternate shadow monsters for the shadow caller archtype for summoner from the advanced race guide (fetchling)

I just re-downloaded and looked over my copy. It does not include alternate shadow monsters, though, I confess that I am not familiar with that archetype so I'm not sure how the monsters would differ.

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Lord Fyre wrote:
Anyone know of some good novels set in a arabian like setting?

For Arabian Fantasy, you could check out the Dabir and Asim books by Howard Andrew Jones:

-The Desert of Souls
-The Bones of the Old Ones
-The Waters of Eternity

I'm assuming that, like the last hardcover, this is not part of the subscription?

Black Dougal wrote:

Simply put, this is a very good fantasy novel. The big thing I am struck with is that this is not a novel commissioned just to serve as iller for the game setting. It never feels clunky. Sure, there are refernces to spider climb, magic missle, wall of ice etc, but its never 'Varian casts a 4th lvl spell wall of ice". Its done as well as you can do while incorporating the game mechanics of the world in which its based.

I actually do appreciate that Dave makes the effort. It would feel wrong to write a pathfinder based novel and have Varian not be bound by the mechanics of that world.

I agree that Dave Gross does a great job at incorporating game mechanics into the stories without making it obvious. I am looking forward to rereading Queen of Thorns once I finish rereading Master of Devils.

If I may recommend another Tales novel, you should check out Blood of the City by Robin D. Laws. He also does a great job (maybe even a better job?) at putting in the game mechanics (spell components, character leveling, etc) without smacking you in the head with the Core Rulebook.

I am having this problem on Internet Explorer Version 8.0.7601.17514

Mark Norfolk wrote:

edit: Sorry! I just found another cardstock product - that must be the one you meant. In that case I change my request to all the creatures you in the monster summon/summon nature's ally lists!


If you are still interested in doing Cardstock Minis as a product, I would be interested in getting a set of summon monster/ summon nature's ally paper minis. I'm currently playing a druid and it's going to be tough to find minis for all the stuff I summon.

TPK has a product currently in playtest that might help you. Watch for the release of Laying Waste: A Guide to Critical Combat. They outline some ways to make Crits more interesting, and make the heal skill more useful. Unfortunately for this conversation, the product is still in limited (backer only) playtest. I believe it is supposed to be published soon, but I'm not sure on the date.

-+1 to removing healing items, so you have to rely on the cleric/oracles to heal you with their limited resources.

-As stated above, use a low point buy for character creation.

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David M Mallon wrote:
Just let it go.

Mostly, I agree with David M Mallon, but I think that more communication would bring about a better resolution.

It wouldn't hurt to communicate to him that you view his actions as a violation of your person. You are offended by his actions in this "incident." You can let him know that his actions were essentially rape, however, you are offering fogiveness and a handshake promise that he won't do this again even as a prank/dare.

I think that could go a long way further to teach him about appropriate interpersonal conduct than legal action ever could.

That's my opinion, for what it's worth.

James Sutter wrote:
Last week. Company just keeps getting bigger!

If you stop feeding your company, not only do they stop getting bigger, they also eventually leave.

This works best in mid-January, when the company is family and they have been around since before Christmas (or, even worse, before Hannukah).

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