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Gold Dragon

Isuru's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Modules Subscriber. 172 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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Not unexpected. Three for three on my personal choices thus far.
I think the emergent trend will be towards terrains and concepts not as well served by other product offerings, but with still popular and prevalent themes.

Also, I think the comparably more descriptive choices will get their fair share of votes.


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James Thomas wrote:

You need maps? How many?

I know a guy...

That's not shady at all...


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LMPjr007 wrote:
You have to remember we are not starting this KS until February 2016. That is six months from now. If we tell you ALL our plans now, what are we going to do for the next 6 months? Slow and steady is what we are doing.

You've floated the idea of heading a cross-3PP AP for a long time. This thread does not really give an update on that.

Someone wake me when the first real announcement is made.

Had more written here but then it felt like threadcrapping on you. That's not my intent and isn't a nice thing to do.

I'll leave it off at this: You left your marketing showing.
That's unfortunate. I want to believe, I liked the illusion.

LMPjr007 wrote:

That is true, there are a LOT of KS who give you tons of pre-release stuff, promise you all kinds of things and their KS project is 1 year late, 2 years late or never come out. I don't want to do that. So I focus on slow and steady.

And some of those miss their delivery dates by two or more years. Even with all the craziness going on in my personal life when I was working on Obsidian Apocalypse, we still released the product. Slow and steady...

Slow and steady and delivering the product on that due date we said we would. To me THAT is what is most important. Making sure people got what they paid for is the end all and be all with me. I hope you feel the same way, because there are many KS project that don't feel that way.

This is also not about the faults and delays of other Kickstarter projects. Even as a KS junkie I've had the fortune of backing mostly projects that deliver within a reasonable time from their projections. In fact, the majority of PFRPG projects I've backed, from various companies, are relatively exemplary in their project management and scheduling. It's the non-PF RPG projects I've had the most problems with.

Promising stuff early on is not indicative of a failure to deliver. Plenty of the big Pathfinder KS promise a lot of stuff on their Kickstarters and have delivered in a relatively timely manner. Conversely, anyone could promise something as simple as a thank-you email and suddenly find themselves in a situation where they are extremely delayed.

There isn't a direct correlation between promises of stuff and delays. There are many other factors contributing to delays. Some of the biggest PF projects encountered printer delays. There is no guarantee even if you offer a modest booklet that you wouldn't encounter similar printing delays, those are outside of your direct control.

*Using "you" as in non-specific you.


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LMPjr007 wrote:
The issue that I noticed that you have assumed a few things about this KS are not correct due a few assumption on your part.

Dearth of information does tend to encourage assumptions based on what is given, else there is no basis for discussion or thought. Why bother if you're just looking for Yes-men. Besides someone has to play the part of the mouthy naysayers to make you look more prepared than you willing to let on. Having assumption-driven randoms gives you scenery to chew.

(I expect payment in a free complementary digital copy in my email box shortly. ;)

LMPjr007 wrote:
::paraphrase:: All the nods and "we've got that covered."

Good, good.

LMPjr007 wrote:
I am getting the feeling that you want me to tell you EVERYTHING we are doing so you can approve or disapprove what actions we have planned. The best thing I can tell you is to want and see what we release for the AP and make your comments based on that instead of thinking what our plans are and commenting on these. Before we announced that we were planning this AP we talked it over for months about what we thought were possible thing and what we couldn't do.

I'm not looking to take it upon myself to gatekeep your project, nor would I have the right (no one does) or acumen (there are those who do have the experience running multiple major Pathfinder Kickstarters).

The thread topic, which you started, asked if posters on these forums will back a kickstarter with the limited information you deemed us worthy of reading. I gave an honest answer of what I'm looking for and commented in good faith on what little you offered. Take it how you will.

You asked what 3PP we want to see and then inquired why some of us were inclined or disinclined to see certain companies involved. Now you say you're far along and have all the stuff worked out in the background. Which is it? Why bother asking if you've got this whole shebang in the bag? Maybe put a disclaimer if you actually don't want any feedback.

Didn't realize that original topic had concluded or grew irrelevant. Update the thread title and first post in that case.

LMPjr007 wrote:
We wouldn't even announced that we were doing something like this without the logistical issues covered and talked about.

Never doubted you put tons of prior legwork into piecing together this project, but generally it seems other established 3PP present their KS plans at a much more developed stage. Or at least are willing to offer a few more solid details, enough to build interest on.

You come on here asking us if we would back Project X. We ask if it includes Y and Z. You give us a maybe, stay tuned. Then expect us to jump up and down in excitement at some generic reveal about the expected standard backer rewards. Sorry, I'll save my anticipation for when you're actually ready to present your project.

Meanwhile, other 3PP (large and small) come on here with a clearly defined concept and framework (theme, authors, contents, sample artwork, etc). My proverbial wallet gets leather strain from the speed I pulled money to throw at the screen (have to if I want to grab a limited tier).

Up to you to decide which you want to be.


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That title!


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Endzeitgeist wrote:
Received my books in good condition - the hardcover has dented edges, but I can live with that.

Same here, but the shrinkwrap appeared unaffected in that corner. I'm assuming this was something probably early on from the printers and not an issue with shipping, but something that bypassed Q&A the printers did to clear the books. Either way, not noticeable during flipping through the book.


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Going by the World-Eater theme, I would put the emphasis on the Campaign Settings involved over the idea of 3PP collaborating or backing to supporting popular 3PPs. Third party publishers have collaborated before on Kickstarters, I don't expect the KS outcome to be different in this case, even if it's nominally a bigger project because it seems each 3PP only has a small part to play in the AP.

Really the draw of this project is the promise of an Planescape or Spelljammer inspired epic romp through some of the more recognizable 3PP settings that are Pathfinder Compatible. Deliver on that concept and the project can tap into the crossover potential.

Conversely, what of 3PP who aren't known for a particular setting or even a barebones implied setting offered in adventures, there are those who focus more on offering player options and monsters over settings and adventures. Their involvement in this is not as strong a draw. While they can still contribute, they wouldn't have a "star" milieu to present for the AP (or put it another way, a World to place before the Eater).

If the non-setting'ed 3PP were to develop a setting specifically for this AP, then that doesn't hold the same draw as a 3PP with an established setting, unless the 3PP is already well established and has an existing strong demand from their fanbase to produce a setting along their style and strength.

With the existing settings, while it is nice for the PCs to visit them as a sort of sight-seeing day tour, there isn't a true cross-over unless elements start to bleed over between worlds. Traditionally in the comics inspiring this World-Eater concept, when worlds cross-over, it's a big mashup between heroes and villains. The PCs stand in for the super heroes (but it would still be nice to see some other familiar faces from the settings interact across the veil of worlds). You would need villains and monsters to cross over. The latter is easily done because most monsters are under a shared license. However, the bigger draw is villains who cross-over and then setting IP is involved. That may be more difficult to work out, both from the logistical perspective and from a writing perspective.

What I'm saying is, this is beyond the scope of Infinite Crisis (IP all controlled by one company). This is more like Amalgam Comics or a true cross-over between different companies (aka Marvel & DC). As fans, it is more gratifying to see Dr. Doom invade Thermyscira or Lex Luthor trying to obtain vibranium from Wakanda*, compared to if both companies decided to invent the "Megamaster" (insert random generic ultra villain) who is trying to invade both settings and each world goes about dealing with this new threat entirely self-contained with no input other than a handful of outworlders helping out.

*Meanwhile the Guardians of the Galaxy are delayed by Angela... wait...

Also, even if villains cross-over, the villains of a setting may have a very different style or even magic/technology level compared to the world they arrive in. That will have to be ironed out. Their motivation would also have to be determined. If Midgard's Master of Demon Mountain arrives on NeoExodus, his goal is probably to get back to Midgard as his primary motivation is the proliferation of a setting specific bloodline in Midgard (and if NeoExodus is an entirely different world void of this bloodline, what use is it to him) and his powerbase is strongly tied to Demon Mountain. There are workarounds of course, but things to consider. On the other hand, using Baba Yaga is free, but I wouldn't call Baba Yaga a Midgard villain. It would be like if DC suddenly used Thor, but not the Marvel Thor. That's cheating.

As for the organization of the Alpha, Delta, Omega adventures with the 3PP settings as side-treks, this seems to push the 3PP settings out into the fringes.

What worlds will be the focus of the Alpha/Delta/Omega adventure?

If some of them are new worlds created for this AP, then their fate and/or destruction will hold less impact.

If they are established settings, some players might not like them and what if they want to skip the Delta adventure if it's set in Midgard, but the group things Midgard is too plain vanilla for their tastes. Or maybe they hate kobolds and gearforged and Midgard is a cardinal sin.

What if NeoExodus is the Delta and is scripted to be consumed by the World-Eater, but the group are NeoExodus fans, they just failed in saving the setting they liked the most. Sure they might save all the others, but they've let their homeworld be destroyed.

Same applies for the Alpha and Omega. What if the group wants to start from a particular setting, how does the Alpha figure into it. Will there be a prequel adventure for each setting involved, etc.

Perhaps you've all these logistical issues figured out. Then that's great. If not, then please use the time to first determine how much of each setting will be intermixing into this formula. I feel the success of this project lies in striking the right balance between involving the settings. Too little and it becomes a cross-over in name only; too much and some might gloss over chapters. Create too much new stuff for the main adventures and we're back to cross-over in name only.

Not to sound negative. I really would like to see this get off the ground, but at the same time, hope it arrives in a format capable of addressing some of the unknowns mentioned above.


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Fortunately (?) due to my Kickstarter habit, I've backed many 3PP projects and have an abundance of products over the last few years. Instead, my list leans towards picking up some of the Paizo stuff I've missed, the entire Occult sub-line being foremost among them. If it turns out how I think it will, I have plans for Occult magic.

As for 3PP I'm usually more inclined towards settings and at the top of my list are settings and supplements I've missed for various reasons.

Thunderscape
Veranthea Codex
Aventyr Bestiary

Also, some of the Dreamscarred non-psionics classes. I was a fan of the 3E inspirations for those subsystems and really like the concepts as updated to Pathfinder. Is Path of War and Akashic Magic done yet? I haven't been following the projects closely and lost track of progress.


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I stayed up late reading the PDF, and despite having early backer access to several chapters combined with what I *inhaled* that night I'm barely a third of the way through the book. Also, despite having work the next day, I regret nothing!

However, to answer your question, I did see extensive explanations on Leylines and their application to the titans' Great Web, with the included rules (which may have been expanded from the original set in the MCS, but I have to do a comparison to be sure, I haven't had the chance to use them myself). The designers will probably come by shortly to give you the more precise answer.

So, yes, Leyline rules included. Even has a chart of effects and backlash.


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So, how about 'em monsters.


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Broke 13K, you can bring out the taskmaster whip for Marc Radle now.

A bit under $900 until full page art for chapter opener. This would be a killer upgrade, 'cause LPJ Designs and art, you know.


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Antariuk wrote:
Personally I think a map of the whole planet isn't really necessary as long as representative maps of a region or adventure site are provided, along with informations for the GM to extrapolate the rest if needed.

This is true, unless there is a global scale to the adventure (that's probably an AP onto itself, even Paizo's APs are more kingdom scale), you probably don't need a world map. Especially since travel through the Legendary Planets is via gateways and not spaceships.

Even with spaceships, just like on a cruise, you only stop at the ports along the coast and make a little headway inland. Then only relevant regions need be covered.

Antariuk wrote:
I would actually prefer world maps like that over super-detailed, realistic maps in the style of the 3rd Edition FRCS map and the like. Nobody needs to know where exactly all the 489956 villages are, but knowing where that sand storm came from and why nobody seems to be able to locate the burial site of the nomad tribes, that is something I'd like to know :)

The 3E Forgotten Realms map only showed cities and major towns, with perhaps a handful of notable villages (typically if the village is the only notable stopping point for miles and miles, or holds some other relevance). The region books give zoomed in maps of the local area that shows more villages, and still not every podunk hamlet.

The 3E FR map was also shortened, losing something like a thousand miles north to south. Going by the proper scale (or even the revised one), the distance between cities on a caravan route is the length of some decent sized European countries.

They ain't even begun to show villages yet.


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There are over 30 days left on this project with more than half the adventures funded. Thirty days is the entire duration of most normal Kickstarters.

The mid-duration lull is a good time for the team to line up their advertising, outreach, and previews (and some of this is already ready to go it seems). Then they'll treat the latter part of the time as a second launch. Legendary Planet is more a series of little projects than one big project.

With so much of the AP funded, the last days will probably mirror or exceed the first days. There is no way people would let the legendary conclusion adventures be delayed from lack of funding.


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In this like a ravenous brain parasite feeding off the project energy. More, more!

With spacefaring craft, perhaps some existing waterborne combat rules can apply (but in 3Deeeee!)

At least one retro game uses monster rules for spaceships. Spaceships, as monsters.

Which reminds me: "Now I'm lost in some distant part of the universe on a ship, a living ship, full of strange alien lifeforms."


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Will definitely keep my eye out for this in June.


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So it is a separate book, excellent!

Though the focus is now on attaining the Serpent Tongues. The power of reptile-kind will not be denied.


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The $50,000 goal sounds like it's almost an entire second book, that's a big jump in content.


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That's three stretch goals in about a 24 hour period. This was the second highest earning day for the project, second only to launch day, people are really getting the word out it seems (and probably deciding to finally jump in or pack on those add-ons).

If the last day is a repeat of today, the book is about to get a lot bigger.


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Steven T. Helt wrote:
—A few other fun details: the Four Horsemen finished their Southlands responsibilities along with the other designers and the Southlands book is off to print! Also, I am designing the crunch for a cool resource for part of the Midgard setting: the Grand Duchy of Dornig.

Really looking forward to the Dornig book.


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Malwing wrote:
I get why we don't get too many 'martials get nice things' books but martial/caster disparity is one of the most frequent subjects in this game and sometimes I feel like its compounded by the sheer volume of material not for them. And not just more books and PDFs but fat ones with a ton of options.

I don't disagree.

Malwing wrote:

But I think we have the tools to make it work out now. Style feats are kind of limited to Monks but their models can be great to fit onto feats that could make fighty types have a bit more flair.

The Stamina System is out and probably won't be supported for a while. I took steps myself to use similar third party products to make it more than just a feat booster but the power behind and array of effects and styles.

Sounds like you have some ideas of where you see martial powers developing. Consider working that up into something more formally formatted and shopping it around to publishers.

The seed of Deep Magic originated from the large collection of spells built up over the years from dozens of KP sources. A tome of that size wasn't created over night, though the support it gained from the crowd-funding and crowd-sourcing expanded it beyond its original content.

Malwing wrote:
One thing about prepared casters is that they can rewrite their spell lists. What if you could do that with martial techniques?

This gets into the design territory of maneuvers and there are a few companies trying their hand at that right now.

Malwing wrote:

What about more things like support for called shots giving new called shot effects?

How about new kinds of boons for special combat skills?

Aren't boons granted from specific situations or NPCs? Relying on extra-character sources doesn't bode well for the self-sufficiency of martial powers.

Malwing wrote:
What about combat buffs based on mental stats?

Isn't one of the criticisms of the martial/magical disparity rooted in MAD, with spellcasters relying heavily on their one primary stat while martial types typically make use of several stats, yet everyone more or less has the same average stat points to spread over everything. Using mental stats for a martial type already relying heavily on their physical stats means they're pulling their focus in many directions.

Malwing wrote:

Magus has a serious lack of variety when it comes to touch spells that he can use for spellstrike, why not more martial magic for our half casters?

Or better yet, a bit-o-magic martials can gain, like wards to help with will saves, more combat alchemy, more combat focused runes and glyphs?

These things (wards, runes, glyphs) have probably been tried many times over, but I think most of them are through the implementation of feats and that directly competes with using feats for martial skills.

Malwing wrote:
There's design space untapped I just get cynical when we just pass up the idea of trying, and it seems like half the solutions is to make new martials or more magical martials rather than making combat itself more viable

I think that is the core of the problem, where the system provide little impetus to develop martial goodies (aside from the limited feat system) unlike with magic where easy drop-in & play spells makes expansion of magic a part of the natural course of things. Often times making martial types equal involves co-opting some of the tricks of magical types.

This is not to knock you for your ideas. I agree it would be nice to have a big book of martial stuff like Deep Magic, but it feels much further off due to there being fewer offerings along those lines than the plethora of spells that formed the foundation of Deep Magic.


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The magic system's inherent ease of expandability made Deep Magic an intuitive project (not to mention an extensive back catalog of material across a couple of editions), which happened to translate to a popular Kickstarter. To date I believe it remains the highest funded 3PP rules supplement and amongst the highest 3PP projects overall.

Martials on the other hand have a dozen minor subsystems to jury-rig and patchwork their way towards their goal, some of which involve minor/partial spellcasting. Many 3PP and even Paizo have tried to tag on more extensive subsystems or loosened up existing class ability tress to give them the same flexibility and efficacy, all to varying degrees of success.

It's a much messier affair.

What should "Deep Combat" be?
A book of feats? KP has various offerings with class oriented feats.
Something like Unchained? There's also Rogue Genius' Talented line.
What ground isn't covered by other company products like:
- Dreamscarred's Path of War
- TPK's Laying Waste
- Little Red Goblin Games' Dragon Tiger Ox
- Some of the choices from Amora Games' Liber Influxus Communis
- The various sword/weapon master type classes out there

And that's just at a glance. Apologies if I missed other 3PPs with martial material released.


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With some monsters getting an art treatment as if they were from pages ripped right from medieval bestiaries and manuscripts. Backers vote which monsters get illuminated.

Perhaps some monsters get a lair write-up with location-based magical properties, as many classical monsters were tied to mythic places of power.


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Positively divine news. ;)


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I believe each Bestiary the Kobolds toll over is a carefully calculated undertaking because they are art heavy projects.

Even republishing monster with existing art assets takes a certain effort, whether from new layout or perhaps an updated depiction to bring it up to parity with newer entries.

It is certainly something that should be considered, but there have been a few high profile PF bestiaries or monster oriented books from a variety of publishers (Paizo and 3PP) over the last few years, are people monster'ed out yet? Not sure. Monsters seem an evergreen topic...


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Wolfgang Baur wrote:
necromental wrote:
This is print version of Halls? Will it be available after the kickstarter through regular purchase?
It's a Kickstarter exclusive, though we might bring some along to PaizoCon or put a few on the Kobold Press store if the Kickstarter backers do not grab them all.

Just when I thought I couldn't possibly have reason to raise my pledge, along comes the add-ons with updates to a project from before my time as a patron.


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'Cause Frog from Chrono Trigger was awesome.

Also, amphibians are under-represented amongst playable races. There is more support for lizard/reptilian races and avian folk, even plant people have more going for them.

Perhaps we can have geckoids as well with their climb anything ability, but only if they're soft spoken in that Attenboroughesque way popularized in those car insurance commercials.

I also want to see a mycoloid/fungus people.


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Great cover.


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Owen KC Stephens wrote:
A Hellfire class sounds fun. Hmmm...

Yes, that would be fun.

Also, a Shadow Mage to go with the other shadow classes. I liked the caster/non-caster thematic symmetry of the Death Mage/Death Knight, Dragonrider/Dracomancer, or the Mighty/Mystic Godlings.


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Wolfgang Baur wrote:
Curious to see whether this one gets a review soon. Seems just enough off the beaten track that it might draw attention from someone.

Or some ... thing...

Spoiler:
C'mon, I had to with that opening left wide open.


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Wolfgang Baur wrote:
And I'm bandishing a contract at an Elder God of Gaming. Anything could happen (or I might just get squished!) :)

No thing of light ever resulted from such dealings.


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The 10th Night.
Could be a good title to an adventure or supplement.


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Hazzah! Aasimar fans.


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I take it we've crossed a rival order of antipaladins.

Perhaps it's a not-so-subtle request for upping the quotient of daemons?


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Copies of Magic of Faerun are quite inexpensive on eBay and/or Amazon.


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Downloaded.


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The Southlands Preview is here:
http://paizo.com/products/btpy99jn/discuss?Southlands-Preview


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Hazards: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mastery/hazards.html


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Could see this becoming a chicken and egg situation.
With a standalone bestiary, I think this project will see a good bump when setting agnostic backers sign on for the monster book (provided proper word of that gets out) and maybe grab the setting book in electronic form.

Until then, we'll have the steady grow this project has been experiencing until we get to the Southlands Bestiary. As we approach the threshold, the pace will pick up as people will want that bestiary. So back now or back later, it's up to everyone to unleash the monsters.

I've been monitoring the bestiary chatter across several kobold dens. This will be a fun monster book to have if even half the stuff under discussion makes it in.


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Wha? Madness!


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If that gnoll image in the link could speak, it would say 'sheer fun'. I think it has the trickster aspect down.


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Beautiful map teaser, Ashenvale.

From the tiny glimpse, I'd say it could be used in the book in its full size.


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Can't wait. For either Yggdrasil or Southlands. It's a good time to be a Midgard fan.


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/Sub

Had the pleasure of contributing a few small pieces to Midgard touching on the Southlands (Horus, the Ishadian colony, some Mharoti deities, etc.), definitely interested in seeing where those seeds develop and the great ideas that go beyond them.

Been waiting for this book a long time.


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This means I have time to work on a submission for the next topic, which I can't get to until I finish the next two rotations ending sometime in the autumn. That's my silver lining.


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Received this as part of Deep Magic KS and just downloaded from that distribution.

It's a varied collection upon my initial look through. Each individual essay should provide a nice parcel for train reading.


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Picked this up last week.
The print copy arrived just two days from ordering!


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Wolfgang Baur wrote:
To try to get back on topic: Anyone want to write and draw a comic for Yggdrasil? That might be a good starting point...

I wish I could draw. Period.

Would be a lot of fun.

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Oh, and as for the theme of Issue #2 will be.... Tech. As in Magitech, Steamtech, Geartech, Clock-tech, Vril-tech, Bio-tech, and yes, if you want, as I know I do Psitech. This was always my plan for issue #2 since KQ#24's tech theme never saw the light of day and seeing as it doesn't seem like Wayfinder will go with Numeria for #12 - well, hopefully I can learn a little on this issue and get things together a little better. ;)

You don't say. So hap- :: zapped by chrono-leaping hunter-killer ::


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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
On the other hand, if I were to write Horrifically Overpowered MYTHIC Feats...

Teh powah. I feels it.


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Drats, have most of them already and purchased the calendar a couple of days ago.

Good deal on Midgard Tales and issues of KQ magazine for those who need to fill out a collection.


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Magic of Incarna is a cookbook!

I joke, but it does remind me of the commercials for chain restaurants with the Awesome Voice-over Guy (tm) talking about steaks (as in carne asada).

Incarnum took a root concept and gave it an appropriate sounding (latin-ish) fantasy name. The original Magic of Incarnum got the point across well enough. Incarna doesn't quite have the same ring.

Love the ideas being discussed.

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