Jerry the Farmer wrote:
ATTENTION!! I'm going to take this thread over and run an old AD&D campaign I have - modified for Pathfinder - for this group. Previous posters have first right of refusal... I plan on choosing the party and starting Sunday nite. Let me know if you are still interested in this =)
Should probably make a new post altogether; this thread is already linked to Ordinary GM's campaign, so you won't be able to link it to a discussion or gameplay or campaign info tab.
I'm literally just the worst PC ever. Years and years of running games has cemented in me a disability to play a character for the sake of playing a character. I can easily make jokes and conversation, but when it comes time to pushing my character's agenda, I just don't know how. If the answer isn't right in front of me I can't deduce it out or take it. I'm extremely, extremely reactionary.
I also can't make PCs who have character growth potential. I make fantastic characters for single-interaction potential who have a limited story, but I can never pursue it as a goal because I'm crippled by my indecision.
Trying to get over it by playing a lot of PBP games though.
To put it in perspective for how much I GM, I've run close to 800-850 hours of games in the last year and played for 40-50.
A simpler suggestion than "go twice every turn" is to give them Hero Points from the APG-- or, give them to yourself so you can use them on whoever you want. Use them to interrupt the PC actions with a standard action, give yourself a spell back, take +8 to a roll, re-roll failed checks, all that kind of thing, and it will work better than taking two full turns every round.
Will also make summoning-focused BBEGs far less powerful!
Since Brother Silas went with making a rogue who's a priest, I'm considering making a priestess who's a rogue.
A tavern wench who worships the God of Luck. Considered to be a 'good luck charm' for the farmers and other types in the area, especially for their card games. They'd never know that she can skew the outcome of a game by praying for it. She's the oldest, wisest and close to the prettiest of the wenches at the tavern and they look up to her like a sister. Of course, she's not always been a tavern girl-- years ago, in a larger town, she was a thief. Moving here and changing her name to get the guards off of her tail did well-- so well, in fact, that she's just decided to live this life instead.
Profession (innkeeper) and +2 to Diplomacy and Bluff. Trait for disable device. Luck and Trickery domains.
Hopefully I start with a holy symbol of some kind. Don't really want to be stuck without one. Yeah, domains!
I'm looking like... Str 8 Dex 12 Con 10 Int 13 Wis 14 Cha 14.
I'll work out an alias for funzies.
I'll quote a post I did on this topic in another thread:
I did this math before Skulls and Shackles came out and declared a minimum crew requirement, but it's still over 100,000gp if the PCs plan on making it there and back.
King Markadian V wrote:
Danke-- and thank you for letting me take the bonus options. I took Stealth Synergy and I'm on the fence between Quiet as Death and Deception is a Tool. I put Quiet as Death down for now, though.
Finally: HP Rolls: 18 + 3d5 + 15 ⇒ 18 + (5, 4, 5) + 15 = 47 is my hp total.
That archetype is so beyond amazing. I'm extremely tempted to take that and go dazzling display just for the Zod factor.
So, cornugon smash at 7th level, seems like...
As far as shadow dancer, wow, that's tempting... I'm thinking of taking the fiendish boon for a non-combat character, though. I'm thinking an advanced succubus so that I can have a) a person who finally understands me and b) dominate person for everyone else.
Thanks for the suggestions. The archetype I think I'm taking-- everything else, I'm considering heavily. The shadow dancer might even play into my conceptual backstory I'm putting down.
I see some overlap but I'm not sure how to not do that with an arcanist, a divine caster, two divine/arcane melee hybrids and a melee/ranged switch hitter. If I'm a caster, you have two. If I'm a meleeist, you have two. If I'm ranged, well...
Archery is the least interesting form of combat in the game with the highest benefit, which is the exact opposite of what I'd like to spend time writing long posts about. "I shoot him. I walk forward and shoot him. I spend time gloating then shoot him. I shoot him twice." I don't know-- that doesn't exactly say "a character who I could only play in this campaign" and doubly so I'd just play a ranger instead of an antipaladin. I don't need the AC bonus or saves when no one can target me; I get a stealth bonus from favored terrain, I get half-perma smite with +4-6 to good outsiders and +4-+6 to humans.
I was suggested a bard-- but we have two charisma casters in the party. A cleric-- two divine casters. I don't really want to play a sorcerer-- two arcanists.
I considered a ninja but that's another front-line character. And a ranged ninja/rogue would be really... I can think of a concept for a ninja that isn't Tian Xia/Asian themed-- a patron of Norgorber who was blessed by the Blackfingers with the ability to turn his body to wind-- but if I went that route, I'd be hucking shuriken from ten feet away while invisible.
As is, I can't pick a class without access to stealth as a class ability because I've been told I have to and also it seems I don't get access to free Stealth Synergy or the extra traits.
If it comes down to that, what do you think I should play? I was looking forward to the antipaladin but if I can't play it I don't know what I could play that you don't already have two of.
I sometimes mix reality with fantasy. In this case, the fantasy that I could ever do something good is mixed with the reality that I can't stop assaulting friendly people on the street.
Posting to say hi and to answer some questions about stealth and concept.
I'm considering playing an anti-paladin of the Prince of Law Asmodeus; I know I want a character who is beautiful and intelligent but also brutish and terrifying-- A physical manifestation of the doctrine of control that Asmodeus personifies.
(We'd have to find out what constitutes a good action though, and whether or not I can even function in society without running around kicking people who say hello and unprovoked throwing cats out of windows.)
As far as Stealth, considering taking the human alternate for multiple skill focuses, for Stealth, Intimidate and Diplomacy. So that puts me at 4+3+~(0 to 2)+3-~(3 to 6) Stealth out the gate. So between 7 and 6. And considering armor expert to make that 8 to 7. And then considering not wearing a cloak of resistance if I can get away with it, using a cloak of the elvenkind instead to make that a 13 to 10. And then a noncombat feat for first level might just be stealthy to make that 15 to 12. So, yeah-- guy in full plate is silent as the night.
1d8 for monk punch at 5?
16 or so strength? maybe 18 for +4
6d6 sneak attack because he runs in invisible and they're always flat-footed for sap master
+6 from knockout artist
+12 from sap adept
1d8 + 22 + 6d6 ⇒ (4) + 22 + (4, 5, 6, 5, 1, 1) = 48
Sounds about right to me...
How does it go on undead and constructs?
They do. All the time. Constantly.
You just never notice.
4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 1, 6) = 12 = 11
This is what I'm sticking with.
Nicola Vlasko GreyNicola is a young Varisian man who carries himself with dignity despite his heavy reliance on a thick darkwood crutch. Covered over with tattoos and markings, his body looks like an errant wall on a city street, overlapping words and images forming a patchwork strangeness across his body-- the only clear image is a tatoo of a seven-pointed star on the back of his neck. A white-and-black ferret lays across his shoulders, tangled in his scarf; It's almost mistakable for an accessory until it yawns, bearing long fangs.
Class: Witch, Patron: Stars.
I'll consider writing up an oracle of some kind, maybe a life oracle? I've always wanted to try something like that.
As far as curses go, how do you feel about the Mute curse (from Pathfinder Adventure Path #49, Brinewall Legacy) and houseruling its advancements? I'll repost it here:
I'm certain that character could diplomacize people using the touch-telepathy; the question is, do you think that I could diplomacize them into letting me touch them without it?
I think I'd flavor it like gestures and sign language-- I make them and people don't really understand, except for one person I'd just choose at the outset. The 'telepathy' I give him would just be them perfectly understanding what I'm trying to say all the time. For touch-telepathy, I'd just write in people's hands and on their backs and they'd just 'get' me.
Anyways, that's what I jumped to first as far as character ideas. I'll dot this and come back to think more later!
Loren Peterson wrote:
Combine them all. The blackraven initiates, including some NPCs, all go in on a "patrol" down the border of Irrisen as their test. To be a Blackraven, the PCs must survive and impress the Blackravens travelling with them. Now it's more of a real trial by fire test with tension.
On the first day, it's survival-- they need to, with a vague map, get the patrol from point A to point B to point C to point D in the allotted time, which requires survival checks and stuff, if they get lost, minus points, that kind of thing. When they reach like point B, then a test. Each PC must shoot an arrow at an illusory target that one of the Blackravens uses magic to move or something, and during this, they tick off one of the NPCs with them. After, the Blackraven superior matches them up with an NPC each and they spar one-on-one in like a tournament bout with nonlethal damage or something, iron man style, no healing inbetween, that kind of thing. The NPC violates something about the Blackravens by cheating or being a jerk and this lets you teach the PCs a little more about the organization as a whole and maybe characterize some npcs. After, they rest, and you can characterize them more or even have the PCs deal with some cool stuff like maybe some non-evil fey that the Blackravens deal with in an even-handed and fair manner, showing that they're good guys. Maybe a Blackraven you want to be a bad guy is there, and he doesn't like that, so that shows he might be a bad guy, that kind of thing.
The next day they go to fight trolls at point C. They know where a troll warren is, where some troll interlopers from Irrisen have taken a rocky ice cave for themselves, and require that the PCs and NPCs (or just the PCs) clear out the warren. Inside is something that makes the plot move forward. What is it? Why is it valuable to the PCs, but why is it also valuable to the Black Ravens? Were the trolls guarding it, or did they have it nearby without realizing its worth? They head back to Blackraven Hall at point D to be inducted or dismissed after.
And on top of that, you now have the Blackraven superiors as established higher-level mentor characters, perhaps a Blackraven bad-guy to add in later, and a handful of NPCs the PCs might take a liking to or a rivalry with. Now the Blackravens have a bit more depth, too.
In Pathfinder, where money is credit towards improving your character, where there is a chart telling you how much money you will get per battle and where you feel you must gain gold to hardline meet a standard that is given as a very loose example or fall behind, of course you're loathe to give anything away to anyone for any reason-- give away that 1 gp and you're behind 1 gp from wealth by level for the rest of your career. Make sure to loot everything that's got a gp value. Tear down the draperie; sell it, it's worth 15gp. Let's take the couches, too, they're worth 4. Gotta meet our quota.
In every game I've ever played in, the person who runs the cohort gives him cash from his own funds. I don't see how that works in real life, but remember that Pathfinder is real life as much as a carousel is a horse race.
You use your bonus to perform instead of the bonus to Acrobatics in all cases. You can choose to roll Acrobatics instead if you like.
Anything that gives you a bonus to perform adds to your versatile perform. Anything that gives you a bonus to acrobatics adds to your acrobatics. This means that you use perform to jump, tumble, balance, etc. and can get +5 from the bracers of the entertainer, can get +3 from a circlet of persuasion, can take skill focus (perform) or prodigy to up your checks.
This also means that if you gain bonuses to acrobatics they do not apply to your check if you use perform. Vice versa with perform and acrobatics. If you get +20 to Perform (dance) and roll acrobatics, you don't get the +20; same with acrobatics and perform. So, if your movement speed goes up 30ft by, say, haste, you don't get +12 to jump checks if you use perform instead. That's the only complicated bit about it.
Dividing 'skill check' and 'skill bonus' into two categories is silly enough that you might as well divide 'hp' and 'hit points' into two columns.
Kevin Mack wrote:
Your point is pretty moot because...
Serpentfolk can disguise self themselves at-will, so those points are more moot if the party just takes that into consideration and doesn't shout that their new ally is a 'folk off the rooftops. None of the groups except for the "bad guy" groups have people with true-seeing either, so it's highly unlikely anyone will see through it.
This is why I dislike Hero Lab. The sneakability and unreliability of it.
I had a player whose character was a wizard in my Jade Regent game. During one of the first encounters he cast Ill Omen-- and I immediately noticed and said, "Isn't that a witch spell?" and we looked it up, confirmed. He told us that he just took it because it looked cool, guess he didn't see it, etcetera, picked by accident in HeroLab, he'd choose something else.
After the game, the players told me I was kind of gullible. In HeroLab, he has sorc/wiz spells available to him only. To see ill omen, he has to actually go to the witch spell list, click on it, agree that he's not a witch, find ill omen, agree that it's not a sorc/wiz spell and that he's houseruling... and then it adds it to his sheet.
The worst part is you just can't prove it wasn't HeroLab because, who knows? It could have been. It's an excellent scapegoat for rules f~+~ery.
Yeah. Still ain't a Wizard.
1d4 DC 14 burning hands has threat potential beyond all means, beyond all thought, beyond even existence
Beware 1d4+1 magic missile; it is the great harbinger of the end times
Can you not hear the voice of DC 14 grease? It speaks that the universe and human subconscious are willing their own end
Level 1 wizard: threat level infinite
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Umm... Where does it say they have to be summonable with a Spell?
In the Bestiary, under templates.
even if the dragon was the mother and the human was the father, how would you explan away the human side.
You can't be half-dragon and half-celestial with also being something else. You either end up a half-dragon celestial or a half-celestial dragon. This is like if an orc and an elf had children and had a half-orc elf child-- no, it's more like the half-orc elf had a child with a human and it was a half-elf half-orc human.
My mother is a mule and my dad is a tiger, so I'm a half-horse half-donkey tiger.
but there are dragons from the celestial planes, there are extraplanar dragons from the draconomicon, look at the radiant dragon.
Then they're dragons. The dragon you pointed to is a dragon. It's not an outsider. Being from the good-aligned planes doesn't make you celestial-- it makes you extraplanar. You have to be a good-aligned outsider to give the half-celestial template. The fringe case for the "celestial" bestiary quick template is being either summonable by summon monster or planar ally. Dragons can be summoned by neither.
What about a god dragon, they have dragon HD and outside HD. What if my characters mother was the God Aasterinian.
Then you would probably be a mythic half-celestial brass dragon, not a double-half celestial gold dragon human.
Second, I should point out that as DM, you need to have the Imp ACTING like an imp, that is, according to its alignment and motivations. It probably wants to corrupt the Oracle. If so, it should have taken steps toward doing so. This would tip off the Oracle as to what the Imp is really about.
Piccolo brings up a good point-- A major, major part of DMing in a constructive way is to always be transparent about your world. I've had PCs react REALLY poorly to their own metagame constructs before, despite all evidence, and at one point you legitimately need to sit down and tell the PC what's going on.
If you want the imp to be good, it can be good and you just have to hint at that. If it's going to be neutral, it can be neutral, hint at it. If it's going to be evil, it can pretend to be good, just hint at it. Make it obvious. That kind of thing, so that the PCs know that the imp is evil or good or neutral and can go from there, or that they understand that their actions may be making it head towards another alignment. Be frank and open if you need to be.
Transparency helps a lot. It makes the game less hidden and helps the PCs understand the true nature of their actions.
BAB +3, natural attack routine for +9/+9/+9. 1d6/1d4+6.
AC 27 just standin' around, 29 with protection up. Avg hp of 4d8+28 is 49 or so.
But then you've got the accoutrements:
+5 Natural Armor, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision; and immunity to sleep, paralysis, immunity to disease; acid, cold, and electricity resist 10; DR 5/magic and SR 17 and and immunity to fire.
The truth is that a dragon can't be a dragon and an outsider at the same time, so it can't give you half-dragon and half-celestial.
If your father was a celestial, it would give you half-dragon and half-celestial, but then you'd just be a half-celestial gold dragon whelp or a good outsider with the gold half-dragon template.
It's really up to your GM.
I know that any creature that has a - in an ability score is treated as if it has a 10 if it comes up in a fringe case-- like a vermin taking int damage or some such.
Reign of Winter spoilers for my PCs! Seriously avoid guys. (They like to read my posts-- who could blame 'em?)
I'm going to play up the alternate reality angle instead of the Taldor/Irrisen swap so that I can use a homebrew world I'm working on right now. The PCs will be important because they are alive in the "Taldor" world but dead in the "Irrisen" world-- I plan to take the Taldan noblewoman and just make her a villager, turn her into a kind of childhood friend/love interest for a PC, and then when they go to Irrisen, Nadya is that girl in an alternate universe and the PC's alternate self is her dead husband. I think that should sow some serious drama.
You don't order him not to slit your throat. Then he just stands there, not slitting your throat. You can order him to rest, and he rests to the exclusion of anything but eating, sleeping etc. He can't attack you because you didn't tell him he wasn't told he couldn't not not attack you. You'd have to order him to "slit my throat in the night" for him to slit your throat in the night.
Would the creature willingly give up it's magical items to us? I've already identified that the creature in question is using a +2 composite [+3 Str] shock longbow. Would he trade this possession to the fighter for a more generic longbow? What if it was a heirloom item?
It would be another saving throw, unless this creature's nature entails giving its things away against its will. For example, if you dominated a hyper-submissive character or creature, they'd probably be pretty messed up by dominate... but they also might enjoy it.
I'd give the bluff -20, since you're mind controlling them already. Nothing says "I'm trustworthy" like mind control, right?
#1, probably not.
#2, he maintains his personality and can choose to interpret his orders if you allow loopholes. This doesn't allow him freedom of decision, but does allow him a bit of agency-- "Guard this door until someone comes, and then alert me", for example, he will guard the door until someone else arrives and then come to alert you. It can choose to guard however it likes, it can choose to stealth or not, it can choose to greet others at the door. Then it takes off to alert you immediately.
#3, yes. He performs his actions to the exclusion of all other activities. Without an action to perform, you must order him to stand still, remain here, do not leave this room until morning, sleep in this bed, that kind of thing.
#4, any distance.
For #5, it's every time. If he knows you're ordering him to kill good people and he's a paladin, he gets a save each time you order him, and on top of that you can be exceptionally specific and so can he. If you order him to "Attack them until they're dead or defeated" he can just use disarm, position himself unfavorably, not protect you, etcetera.
#6, as a move action, and it's his orders for the round. If he understands your motives for casting mind fog, he's probably going to get another save versus dominate immediately.
#7, kind of. Teleport relies on visual studying, which you do not get from dominate. "I want to teleport to the cold place" is a bad idea, but it relies on your mental image, so you can try to build one from the input you have. How clear is your mental image of a place you can only view through senses other than sight?-- how's your Perception? How much do you trust the dominated creature's mental filter? They might be standing where you're going-- a massive cesspool fill of curdled water and oil, garbage and filth-- and their perceptions might interpret it as smelling good and the corpses make them hungry. You can't hear their thoughts. "The place smells amazing; It's open to the air, filled with the scent of food. The thrall's stomach rumbles. It's very warm here, uncomfortably, due to a crackling fire." What's your mental image? Because if it's not where the thrall is standing, you are going to the place most similar to that mental image.
#8, as many as you want.
#10, you can't dominate a good person. Dominate can be used for the greater good-- an exceptionally wise use of dominate is to cast it on your party members, giving no orders, when you go up against a dominate creature such as a vampire. When the vampire dominates one, you use a move action to charisma check force them to attack the vampire instead. You save per order, so the vampire's order to attack you instead gives them a +2 bonus to save and a new save if he passes his check. You can dispel them afterwards, a show of good faith. But in reality, no, mind control is not a good thing to do.
#11, remembers everything.
#12, it's in the description of the spell, but the creature can't be affected by the same non-instantaneous spell from the same creature twice-- the higher spell would just override, imo.
#13, sure. It depends on the GM. You can order him to accompany you, or to not flee and things like that, giving him orders to help you out, healing him etcetera. It's the same thing as locking him in irons and giving him a sword and forcing him to help-- it's slavery. How gracious a slave is depends on how fast his irons get unlocked, in my opinion. Bargaining will probably ensue. He can speak normally if you give him the order to speak openly.
Dual-wielding cleric with air and fire domain.
At level 3, can dual-wield a battleaxe and a cestus, can shoot lightning, can shoot fire. Can use burning hands or produce flame for flame shock, can channel to heal for healing rain, can spontaneous heals for other heals. Shield of faith is earth shield. At 7th level, can cast blessing of fervor for heroism/bloodlust.
If you want, you can create an archetype and take his domain's 8th level abilities to give him something reminiscent of totems-- this totem grants +1 per 5 to attacks and damage, this totem grants +1 per 5 to the DCs of spells, this totem grants 3 resist per 4 etc, usable as a standard action 3/day, no more than one totem active at a time. Base them off of judgments, but give them to the entire party for only his Wis in rounds.
Detect magic is a fairly important spell to be able to use repeatedly, especially if you're the only arcane spellcaster. You need it to notice weird things, like lingering auras or magical effects, or identify magical items-- and you'll be wanting to identify them each time you find them so that your party can equip them right away. I might suggest swapping daze or mage hand with it.
One thing I'll suggest is that having 3 more rounds of performance plus 6 more rounds of performance plus 4 plus charisma mod (3) is way too many rounds of performance. 16 rounds a day is a lot. Most fights will last 2, 3 rounds at level 1, and you'll be doing maybe four. If you want the longevity for other reasons, one thing I want to make sure is that you note that you cannot use inspire competence on yourself. You'd be using it to basically follow other PCs around chanting like Sir Robin's minstrels, aiding their skill checks. Oh, and that fascinate is not that great because you can only get one person. I'd drop Extra Performance or Noble Scion depending... and then, what exactly do you want to do with this character? Do they fight with a bow or a sword, or do they just prance around? What's your perform? Are you going to be the social face or the scout character or... ? Take a feat to enhance that. Toughness is never a bad choice.