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So I just started a campaign of CotCT. I picked urban ranger archetype (pure archery build) and human favored enemy.
I'm thinking about changing back to vanilla ranger (with GM permission) before the 3rd level so that it doesn't really effect anything other than class skills.

I try not to read ahead since I do have access to the books through a friend but I've been asked not to. I do know that there are at least two non-urban settings that wouldn't really count as communities and Korvosa (to my knowledge) is the only community. Would vanilla ranger with a urban terrain focus be better so that I can still get a bonus outside Korvosa (even if it's only +2)?

Also, any other tips on archery rangers in CotCT would be taken under advisement. And I know of the switch hitting build that is considered better than pure archery but I have a barbarian, inquisitor, and oracle to hold the front lines. What we needed as a 4th was a ranged/skill player.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Armor does NOT impede Perform: Dance checks however.

And as a dancer I can tell you the moves that he is pulling off are crude to what the ideal is. Plus that armor is not meant to stop weapons. It is designed to absorb and distribute explosive forces away from the body. (No more magic missiles for him)


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Real Armor (not modern armor made for show) is not mobile. Its heavy and cubmersome as crap. Often knight's needed cranes and otther apparatus' to get on their horses. A step ladder at the very least.

I have to agree with this statement. I know people (mostly police officers) who have worn Kevlar vests and the weight of those alone puts a real damper on your physical abilities. You think a suit of armor that weighs (most likely) as much or more than you do is easy to move in? Those things were made of pure iron/steel.

STR skills mostly deal with supporting your weight (climbing and swimming)
DEX skills mostly deal with fine motions (stealth, DD, acrobatics, and yes ride)
Ride checks do involve reactive motions and armor would interfere. These are however generally simple actions for those who are highly trained. Say you are level 5 with decent DEX (+3) and its a class skill. 5+3+3=11 Most DCs are 10 or less unless it really is a challenging this like cover or fast dismount (spur I don't feel should be so high but I don't ride so I can't say for sure, it just seems like a simple command unless the creature is stubborn). Finally, classes that are MEANT to mount up usually have an ability that makes it easier.

On the matter of encumbrance and ACP I don't believe they stack. Take the greater.


God I wish I got onto this community long before this. I keep finding great threads like this that I wish I had joined earlier. Yay thread necromancy.

I have a EK build I am theory crafting. Paladin 2 -> Sorcerer 6 -> EK. Both levels of Paladin give a great feature: CHA bonus to saves being the primary draw and smite evil giving you a good buff against the big evil baddie (tho at only 1/day make it count). Smite gives an attack bonus and deflection mod against smited target (which as a sorcerer should never be a small bonus) and bypassing of all DR.

I find I would likely play an EK as a self buffing fighter type. Haste, shield, protection from evil, color spray, and enlarge person being only a few options open this way. I'm not a fan of damage dealing spells as a whole. Too many allow saves that remove half or all of already very random damage.

This isn't the most munckined build but I think of this more like building a Jedi on Golarion. Its all for fun. I would never run EK (or maybe ANY PrC other than Defender) in a game that was meant to really test your abilities.

So any ideas? I still haven't decided on a bloodline.


ok so its basically what my group called full caster (9 levels), dabbler (6 levels), and secondary (4 levels).

So what the hell are they talking about AA getting half progression?


I'm sorry what is 1/2 caster progression because it sounds like spell increase every other lvl but I read threads that say the AA would benefit from 1/2 caster progression and I'm thinking that would nerf it more.

Please clarify.


Ok so I've downloaded Master of the Fallen Fortress. I'm looking through other modules and I wonder. How many levels on average could each module give a party of 4 on fast progression?

I think I could reasonably tie some of these stories together to make a decent campaign.


I am sometimes ashamed to be a man in this society. I mean seriously ashamed. This woman is trying her best to fight the (often degrading) tropes that target women in this society.

I will admit I participate a bit to much in funding these poor representations but if I do it is because I believe the game itself is good and not just the t~$% and ass that are on screen (Beyond Good and Evil being one example).

I am all set to possibly buy Lollipop Chainsaw but that has more to do with that it looks interesting and fun. The top of my list on these fun aspects is the one baddie's attack is shouting obscenities and you have to actually avoid the words.

One of my favorite representations of women was Zoe in Left 4 Dead. She wasn't in skimpy clothes and she was damn badass.


Thanks Nimon. Does 5 points at creation make that much difference? We keep playing 25 points and killing things way outside our level. Hell our Inquisitor at level 6 took out four Hill Giants (CR 7 each so I believe that supposed to be a CR 10 encounter) alone while we raised an army's supply train.


Ok so a few months ago I tried my hand a GMing but I failed horribly. Mostly because my players fought the story I was trying to tell but also because I tried to do too much I think. I stole the storyline off of FFXI which I altered names and such to fit the PF setting.I really don't have a mind for story telling but so far of our 5 person group the same guy runs 80% of our games and I want to let him play his Dwarven sword-and-board Fighter/Defender.

So here are the things I am hoping for.
1. Best way to start the campaign as far as points, starting level, etc.
2. A good campaign for a beginning GM. I know there are some good published story campaigns out there but I don't know where to begin with choosing one of those.
3. How much should I railroad and how much should I let them roam? I know many players hate being railroaded but some like the structure. How often can a GM fairly use "plot-device" to move the story along or just add a bit of flavor?
My last game the GM had a shrine with Frightful Presence (DC OBNOXIOUS) that did nothing (except scare away the Human Barb and Dwarf Fighter but not the Halfling Oracle or Gnome Summoner) it just represented the spread of evil in the land but the fighter got all pissy that no inanimate object has Frightful Presence.
4. Can I reasonably restrict classes, feats, or even whole books outside core content but still paizo made? I am talking about keeping the CRB, APG, UltMag, and UltCom but not the abilities and such released in the other paizo outlets.

Any and all advice is welcome.


Posting from my mobile so this may get screwed up. It doesn't like forums. I see your points. First I hadn't thought about the other feats that would contributed to a twf rogues damage. Second,and I should have made the comparison in my firstpost, I'm comparing this to say power attack or the ranged equivalent, I can't remember the name atm. You take a -2 penalty to hit but generally gain twice that damage back when you hit.

For the most part what I was trying to present was the reduction of random factor. While I love the rogue's playstyle I sometimes hate the random chance of the dice. Between flanking, high DEX + finesse, cleric/oracle/wizard buffs and debuffs, I have no problem landing hits.

And I know this is rare on the internet but I apologize for the appearance of being rude, it wasn't my intendt.


My rolls for the above stats. Physical stats not theoretical ones.
5 dice

0 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
0 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
6 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
10 bonus dmg (1,1,1,1,1 NO JOKE)
6 bonus dmg
0 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
6 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
1 bonus dmg
1 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
0 bonus dmg
0 bonus dmg
0 bonus dmg
2.8 avg bonus dmg PER STRIKE

6 dice

3 bonus dmg
5 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
6 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
1 bonus dmg
5 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
1 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
5 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
9 bonus dmg (1,1,1,1,2,4)
4 bonus dmg
3.3333 bonus dmg PER STRIKE (Also, not once in 30 rolls did I NOT roll at least one 1 or 2 this time)

10 dice
0 bonus dmg (probably the best 10d6 I've EVER rolled 6,6,6,6,5,5,4,3,3,3)
5 bonus dmg
5 bonus dmg
5 bonus dmg
6 bonus dmg
6 bonus dmg
6 bonus dmg
5 bonus dmg
9 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
6 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
6 bonus dmg
5 bonus dmg
2 bonus dmg (one 1)
5 bonus dmg
6 bonus dmg
7 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
9 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
6 bonus dmg
8 bonus dmg
3 bonus dmg
9 bonus dmg
6 bonus dmg
4 bonus dmg
7 bonus dmg
5.06666 extra dmg PER STRIKE


Forgive me for reviving a dead thread but I am currently theory crafting a combat rogue for a Ding-or-Die campaign.

ajs wrote:
Pavlovian wrote:
We found that deadly sneak really boosts her damage output. So yeah, it was worth taking actually.

Well... anecdotal evidence isn't very helpful in this case. You could just as easily have killed a chicken before the game and found that your rogue did a lot more damage. As I said, above, you can't reasonably roll a statistically significant number of SA attacks per session, so you might get very low or very high output during any given session and still be well within the margin of error.

What the hell are you talking about. You are using only THEORETICAL statistics and he is giving you an actual situation. Also, any experienced player who can't "reasonably roll a statistically significant number of SA [which varies depending on what the encounter is] attacks per session" shouldn't be playing a rogue or has a GM that is out to nerf the rogue (or both).

I will admit that powerful sneak on any rogue is not that good. 1/6 PER DIE to add 1 damage isn't that good.
Deadly Sneak, however, is great. You can't even take it till you have 5+ SA dice. With 5d6 it's an average of 2.8 bonus damage/hit. With 6d6 it's 3.3333 bonus damage/hit. at 10d6 it's 5.0666 bonus damage/hit. (all averages physically rolled by me using a pool of 30 rolls, next post has each roll's bonus damage).

Keep in mind the random nature of Sneak Attack. In the 90 rolls I did to simulate 30 attacks at 3 different levels I rolled 5 1s on 5d6 once and 4 1s and a 2 on 6d6 once. The Law of averages states that over a large pool of random chance you will attain the average. At 10d6 CONSISTANTLY rolled two 1s and two 2s (about 1/2 rolls) and rarely rolled less than two dice below 3 (one roll had a a single 1 and zero 2s while another had zero of either).

Personally I love the rogue but if I can put a good dent is the minimum damage of Sneak Attack I will. Deadly Sneak is better at later levels than early. I'd pick it up at 14 probably.


Yeah I know about Alchmeists allocation for a 20CL GMF but that'd use all of my 2nd level extracts (2 hands, 2 claws, 1 bite). Thing is I wanted to get other potions for the same thing.

Unless buffing 1 claw/hand buffs both.


My STR is going to be my focused stat. Probably a 17 to start not counting the +racial which will be str (25 point build is the only way to survive ding-or-die imo). With mutagen a starting str mod of +6 for the fight.

I will likely us Dodge+Mobility for positioning with a buddy to flank ans get sneak damage that way. There is also Gang Up (you count as flanking if an enemy is flanked by other allies). Our group loves to have at least one pet in the fight (or 17 pets if one of the guys is playing summoner) so getting a flank should be easy. Also, alchemist has a greater invisibility extract.

Also I'm considering dropping the Amulet of Natural Armor I always buy for Amulet of Mighty Fists and doing an unarmed combo+claws/bite all buffed by amulet.
This is late game potential I know but lets assume at level 16 with 23 STR (no item buffs calculated yet), +5 Amulet, Grand Mutagen (STR focus) and GreaterTWF, muiltiattack, and power attack. (There will be other mods I know)
Unarmed Primary1/Off-hand1/Primary2/Off-hand2/Primary3/Off-hand3/claw/claw/bite
To hit: +21/+21/+16/+16/+11/+11/+19/+19/+19
Damage: +23/+14/+23/+14/+23/+14/+14/+14/+14
(only putting down damage mods at this points I'm not a fan of increasing dice, too random)
I think this is the best option. Makes the most use of a +5 enhancement bonus.


I see. So I can't just get 4 claws/bite, I need to make my natural attacks a secondary claw/claw/bite.

See I'm making this character for a "Ding-Or-Die" lvl 1-20 campaign (every session the one fight will result in level-up or death). I liked the alchemist I played in an earlier campaign so much I wanted to really bring out its best. I am not convinced that bombs are the better option.

I have decided to use a vivisectionist since it gives me sneak attack instead of bombs. All around better for Mr. Hyde type alchemist. Any suggestions? Should I go for the TWF Falchion build or a standard TWF with secondary claw/claw/bite?
Or better yet, can I use TWF with unarmed attacks then claw/claw/bite w/o using vestigial arms?

I am just trying to get opinions because my some of my group can read RAW and come to two different conclusions.


course wrote:


so, you can hold 4 weapons, but you can still only attack with 2 of them. if you want to get more attacks, take the feral mutagen discovery, since you can combine natural attacks with normal attacks at a -5 penalty (-2 with multiattack).

Ok so I forgot about the no extra attacks part. Thanks for reminding me.

As for the feral mutagen discovery. The vestigial arms each grant a claw attack even though the vestigial discovery says they normally don't attack on their own?


Ok, so I am coming up with ideas for an Alchemist and as I pondered the Half-Orc options I thought about the Vestigial Arm discovery. Now normally I'd take only one arm so I can TWF and hold a shield of some kind.
However this time I thought about taking is twice so I'd have four arms... Would that allow me to TWF with a pair of Falchions? I mean the way I see it is the arms must come out of the torso (most conceivably right below the normal arms). I would guess it is conceivable to hold it as the right/left pair each acting like one arm with double the strength.
Now I realize the TWF rules refer hands but Inevitable, Lhaksharut from bestiary 2 uses a two-handed weapon (spear) as well as others in his 6 total arms.

This brings me to my question specifically about Multiweapon Fighting.
As presented in the bestiary:
Multiweapon Fighting (Combat)
This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks
with multiple weapons.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.
Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons
are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with
off hands.
Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6
penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a
–10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands.
(It has one primary hand, and all the others are off
hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting in the Pathfinder
RPG Core Rulebook.
Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting
feat for creatures with more than two arms.

My question is do the Improved-TWF and Greater-TWF feats grant additional attacks to the second/third off hands? Put another way, does the "special" section of Multiweapon Fighting extend to the other TWF tree feats.


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