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Boggard

Humphrey Boggard's page

662 posts. Alias of Humphey Boggard.


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Ravingdork wrote:

Who do I really want to play as?

The lord of the shadow people.

Don't suppose he's also a were-princess?


[Played one session of PFS where he died due to the actions of a cowardly paladin played by a 12 year old.]

Early Gunnison - A gruff, no-nonsense Dwarven warrior. Tough as nails and names his weapons after the women in his life (e.g., "This axe here is Matilda. Named after the toughest woman in cellblock 2C of the Battlebrew Community Corrections Center, my mother"). Has a dagger named "Carlos" that he refuses to speak about.

If he had survived he would have been bitten by a transvestite while out drinking. A month later he would "discover" that he had been transformed into a were-princess. The morning after each full moon he'd wake up with a punishing hangover in a flouncy dress and size 14 high heels, makeup smeared around his face as though applied by a toddler.


When in Rome.


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Different tables will have different simplifications to the overly complicated d% system.

For example, we simply roll an ordered 4d4 and interpret the result as a base four number (0-127 in base ten, 100 to 127 -> reroll). The hardest part is remembering which d4 goes first, second, etc., so we default to a ROY G BIV convention. I guess just dropping the second d10 for concealment chance probably could be workable as well.


Were-princess.

Early Gunnison, dwarven were-princess:

"We were out drinking at the bars til the early morning a few months ago and it seemed like nothing at first. The bite barely broke the skin and I managed to escape easily enough. In the morning I was a bit feverish, which I attributed to a hangover. However, the next full moon it hit me like the Sledge O Torag. I felt my skin grow soft and my beard grow luscious. I was compelled to carry an impracticably small purse. Couldn't even fit my keyring in there. I stumbled into the first dress store I could find and in a haze I bought their flounciest dress. I blanked out after that.

I woke up the next morning still wearing the dress and a pair of size 13 high heels that I don't know where they came from. My skin had gone back to it's normal leathery self and my beard was greasy and grizzled again. I went to day spa after day spa looking for a cure but they could only temporarily keep the curse at bay. Every full moon since I've heard its call and I dare not try to contain it lest I further aggrieve the affliction."


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Power level seems reasonable. You might want to mix it up a bit on creature-type though, throwing in a Daemon still sitting there getting fat on the anguish, or some aberrations or other creepy things that have moved in since the place burned down. Maybe have some operatives of the Order show up just as the PCs are there as well...

That makes good sense.

Maybe the heretic religion bound a daemon to a subterranean altar beneath the theatre that the crusaders had never found. Instead of the two Bodaks perhaps Reiux was planning on unleashing a leukodaemon or similar.

I really like the idea of the Order showing up as a wild card. Even within the Order there would be political divisions, one favoring openness the other working hard to keep their shameful past a secret.


I'm designing an encounter to take place in the remains of an opera house thirty years after it burnt down.

Backstory:

During their investigation the PCs learn that 240 years prior the city had been a bastion of a heretic faith, whose practices were deemed so foul that a crusade was launched against them by the Order of Immaculate Fury - a sect devoted to the worship of Iomedae. Those who repented were given a quick, merciful death. Those that did not were made to suffer unspeakably in a pit dug in the town square. The entire population of the city was killed except for a small noble family that had been traveling at the time. Centuries later the crusaders still maintain a fortress cathedral and the old town square had been built over many times, most recently with the Theatre Maurou.

Jean Marie Rieux was the last scion of that noble family, who had nursed their hatred for the crusader's descendants through the centuries. The Carnival of the Condemned was partly a retelling of the genocide of his people and partly his revenge. He plotted to seal the doors of the opera house and unleash the horrible things trapped in the pit, touching off an undead plague. The head of the Order of Immaculate Fury, learning of the plot too late to save those in the theatre, decided to burn down the theatre to save the city. The lieutenant in charge decided that any witnesses who identified the War Priests as such be thrown into the fire to share the fate of the damned theatre-goers. The last of these was Marcel Montastruc - the poster artist who is the source of the haunts.

The party will be 6th level at the start of the adventure. I'd like to have at least 3-4 combats and several haunts. Here are my thoughts so far:

- The "horrible things trapped in the pit" should be be a pair of Bodaks (a CR 10 battle but the party has several abilities that make them effective against undead).

- Marcel Montastruc is a ghost (human expert 7), trapped in eternal anguish and confusion over his fate. He can only be set to rest by exposing the crimes of the Order of Immaculate Fury. The Order (LN) knows this and works actively to thwart those seeking to investigate the exact nature of the fire.

- Some of the trapped theatre goers have become wraiths and the previous Prince-Bishop will be an advanced wraith (and identifiable as the Prince-Bishop to those who have seen his portrait).

- Others appear as weaker undead, maybe hordes and hordes of skeletons sheathed in spectral fire.

What do you think? Do the undead I've selected make sense in the context? Are their power levels appropriate? Any suggestions for haunts?


Wellfooled wrote:
Does that mean that it can engage in battle alongside the Cavalier (like an animal companion of a druid) and not only be used as a mount? Or is that statement purely for understanding how the mount levels up?

The Cavalier mount can indeed fight alongside its master just like a druid animal companion and oftentimes this is a superior tactic once battle is joined.

Wellfooled wrote:
And would I need to train the mount for combat first with the handle animal skill for it to battle?

The Cavalier's mount comes combat trained but certain maneuvers may require handle animal or ride checks on the Cavalier's part.

For example, when I played a Samurai (Cavalier alternate class) I would usually charge into battle before dismounting and fighting alongside my mount. Some players will build their cavaliers entirely around charging (a high risk/high reward tactic) while others will build their character without spending any feats on mounted combat (my preference - makes for a flexible combatant).


Any suggestions on what Golarion religions to use for an analog to the Albigensian Crusade (the Catholic crusade against Cathar heretics in Southern France)? Also, is there a more French-themed part of Ustalav that I could set my story in?

My idea for the adventure is as follows:

Twenty years ago a mad playwright, Jean Marie Rieux, produced Carnival of the Condemned - an opera deemed so obscene that a mob burned down the theatre on opening night. Sadly, in the panic many were lost in the fire including the former Prince-Bishop Jacques Martin. Bits of memorabilia from the tragedy became collectors items, notably the advertising posters by Marcel Montastruc. Last night each of those posters simultaneously burst into spectral flame for the duration of the fire so many years ago. The PCs are called upon by the reigning Prince-Bishop to investigate the source of the haunting.

The Tragic Fate of an Illustrator:

During their investigation the PCs learn that 240 years prior the city had been a bastion of a heretic faith, whose practices were deemed so foul that a crusade was launched against them. Those who repented were given a quick, merciful death. Those that did not were made to suffer unspeakably in a pit dug in the town square. The entire population of the city was killed except for a small family of nobles that had been traveling at the time. Centuries later the crusaders still maintain a fortress cathedral and the old town square had been built over many times, most recently with the Theatre Maurou.

Jean Marie Rieux was the last scion of that nobel family, who had nursed their hatred for the crusader's descendants through the centuries. The Carnival of the Condemned was a retelling of the genocide of his people and his revenge. He plotted to seal the doors of the opera house and unleash the negative energies of the pit, touching off an undead plague. The head of the War Priests, learning of the plot too late to save those in the theatre, decided to disguise a handful of their soldiers as drunks and burn down the theatre to save the city. The lieutenant in charge decided that any witnesses who identified the War Priests as such be thrown into the fire to share the fate of the damned theatre-goers. The last of these was Marcel Montastruc - the poster artist who is the source of the haunts.


Ayanzo wrote:
How has everyone else here dealt with players you found toxic? Or if not toxic, what caused you to dismiss them?

This can be complicated depending on the nature of your group.

A few questions:

- How have the other players reacted to his PC's actions? Do they find it cute and funny or are people genuinely annoyed?
- Would you want to get rid of him even if this behavior stops?
- Is he friends with one or more of the other players?

If the other players aren't bothered by this I'd let it ride.

If other players find this a problem I think you should talk to him and ask him to play a character that doesn't cause this kind of conflict - why would the rest of the party want him around?

If you'd want to be rid of him even if it weren't for the stealing and selfishness and he's not friends with the other players I would tell him it's not working out and ask him to find another game.


Let me get this straight:

1. You are joining an existing group and they want you to immediately GM.
2. They also want to meet at your house and bring 8+ people not involved in the game with them.
3. One of the players hates the idea of Pathfinder and the other group members work around it.

How sure are you that you want to be a part of this? I'm sure you can meet other people in your area through your friendly local gaming store or online forums that won't present any of these issues let alone all three.


Thanks for all your work improving the hobby! I wish you well in your future endeavors and hope that you keep a foot in the gaming world.


Ciaran Barnes wrote:
This is a player problem, not a paladin problem. A sociopath pretending to be lawful good isn't actually following the paladins' code of conduct. Strip him of his powers. Not quite sure how he got them in the first place.

Or work with him! Ask him if he'd like to be an anti-paladin who is convinced that he is still and paladin and that every murder he commits is right and just. And then over time he realizes that his granted powers are coming from a darker place than he could have ever known in his previous life.


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Matt Thomason wrote:

Going off at a bit of a tangent (no pun intended!):

The first entry by O'Reilly as a 3PP for Pathfinder, Programming Examples for Pathfinder Optimization in a Nutshell.

You could package it with Mathfinder Module: We be Globals!


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I came to this thread thinking that you were looking for Matlab or C code for optimizing DPR.

Backs away slowly, closes door behind himself.

Spoiler:
I'll admit to spending many a bored Saturday morning drinking coffee and working out what's possible under the rules, occasionally writing a bit of code but more often doing the probability calculations by hand. However, when I game I make it a point not to optimize beyond what it is reasonable for the table I'm at.


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Let's help Paizo gauge interest in an edutainment extension to Pathfinder by suggesting Mathfinder titles! Algebraic!

1. Statistics Revisited
2. Inner Sea Mathematics
3. Induction Proofs Unleashed
4. Algebra, Kingdom of Headaches
5. Manual of the Hyperplanes
6. The Epic Logarithmic Level Handbook
7. Ten to the Power of Seventeen Squared Coins for a Kingdom
8. Ultimate Equations
9. Blood of Angles
10. Seekers of Sequences
11. Graphs of Golarion

Credits:
I contributed 1-3, Matt Thomason 4-7, David Higaki 8-11. This was from the now closed "How are people supposed to 'talk' to Paizo exactly?" thread.


Onyewu wrote:
That sounds remarkably like my education...apparently I reached high enough level to create "encounters".

Just the other day the g/f and I were joking about how Ph.D. advisors are the original Dungeon Masters.


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Ross Byers wrote:
Humphrey Boggard wrote:
Also, let me know what you think of that Mathfinder idea - you guys are figuratively sitting on an edutainment gold mine.
Playing the game does require math...and the problems get more complicated as you level up...

But it's all math that a grade schooler could do.

I hear about the supposed class tiers in great detail on the forums - what if the leveling the "high tier" classes required substantially more difficult math problems? Instead of threads with thousands of posts complaining about the hypothetical caster v. martial disparity you'd see threads asking for help in solving systems of linear first order differential equations so someone's wizard can get access to 8th level spells.

Also, it would open up entirely new avenues for books like Statistics Revisited, Inner Sea Mathematics, and Induction Proofs Unleashed.


To be fair we've made Question's question more important than everyone else's by spending so much time and effort responding to it. Personally, I thought you did the right thing by locking this thread during the weekend.

Also, let me know what you think of that Mathfinder idea - you guys are figuratively sitting on an edutainment gold mine.


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Question wrote:
If i were to sell you a maths textbook, and it has incomplete paragraphs and is missing math formulaes that should be in there, then wouldnt you be pretty annoyed? How would you, or others react in this situation? Likely take the book back for a refund or ask for clarification regarding the missing items.

Math textbooks have mistakes all the time. Most of the time it's small things (referring to a problem in text that was deleted in a later edition) but I've seen some pretty glaring omissions. For example, one undergraduate text on differential equations had mistakes in how it defined the linear independence of functions.

Also, math textbooks are written about topics that have been settled for decades, if not centuries, as part of a rigorously constructed, narrowly defined system of rules. If Paizo used the same care in crafting its rulesets what you'd be left with would be about as fun to play with as a math book.

Spoiler:

Okay, I looove reading math text books but I realize that not everyone feels the same way. Certainly if Paizo thought that was the case they'd be publishing math textbooks written in a narrative style with awesome artwork and maps.

Spoiler:

Actually - if any Paizo devs are reading this I have a great idea for an educational game called "Mathfinder". It would be similar to Pathfinder but you can only gain experience by solving progressively harder math problems.


@OP - Why not throw in some combat maneuvers to spice your life up in combat? A lot of your feats work well for any 2H weapon, so you could bring a guisarme or ranseur to start combat by tripping or disarming, knowing that you can drop the (non-mw, non-magical) polearm and recover it after combat, if need be.

You could also start doing non-lethal damage (-4 to attack unless you've got a weapon that can do non-lethal) to knock enemies out so they can be brought to justice later on.


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Make time meaningful. If the PCs have substantial resources that recharge daily then make them accomplish more in a day.


1) Gnome Mad Dog Barbarian - kangaroo mounted lancer.

2) Kitsune witch with fox familiar. Bonus points if you can figure out how to get a dire fox animal companion.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Anyway, this thread seems to have served its original purpose, so I'm stepping out for now.

Does this mean I should start a separate thread enumerating my complaints of a single class feature of the Ratfolk Gulch Gunner and how that mechanical choice has ruined Pathfinder for me forever?


Beemer wrote:
I do like the flavor of the Mad Dog and I want the companion right away which the Mad Dog gives me. I was looking over the companions again and I think the Kangaroo would be hilarious. (FEROCIOUS KANGAROO)

Halfling Mad Dog Barbarian with Kangaroo mount!!!


I've played a samurai to good effect. Making straight-forward feat choices (2H katana, emphasis on crits) you can make an effective martial character with a lot of tactical flexibility. Trying to build a medium cavalier or samurai around charging is a trap, in my opinion, unless the game is set in terrain favorable to cavalry.


Did some google-fu and found that the Sanity Point system I liked was the one by Kobold Press

A Broken Mind: Sanity and Mental Disorders… for Pathfinder Roleplaying Game by Scott Gable. My impression is that it makes things more interesting without making them overly punishing.


I would suggest having an insanity type penalty - have a listen to the recent Private Sanctuary podcast on madness, they go over several different systems.

Basically, you might have a system where each PC has a set number of sanity points that are depleted as they experience traumatic events, like watching a fellow get dismembered or being raised from the dead, etc. Once these are depleted the PC acquires a randomly rolled insanity from the Game Mastery Guide. Rest and specific story events can help the players regain lost sanity points.

Has the effect of making things like death meaningful and also makes downtime important.


First, you need to tag this as a *spoiler* thread.

Second, don't ruin your experience by asking about things on the forums.

Third, it was worn by a giant crab inhabited by the ghost of a giant. The crab was huge.


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Find a way of thinking of Zon-Kuthon where he's a tragic hero and the good gods are a bunch of weak-willed liars.

For example, his transformation was a heroic sacrifice to keep Rovagug at bay but the other gods were afraid of his power and exiled him to the Plane of Shadow to cover up their cowardice. His clerics in Golarion are brave souls that are willing to face the darkness that is necessary to keep creation as we know it together, etc. etc.


Anguish wrote:
Humphrey Boggard wrote:
Thumper. Ten out of ten Fremen recommend.
It's a shame this hasn't gathered more attention. This is a great idea for a cheap item.

All you need is a short stake with a spring-driven clapper affixed to it. That and the ability to change your stride to something slow and non-rhythmic, like the winds blowing across the desert sand.


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Thumper. Ten out of ten Fremen recommend.


I found another nice guide: A Guide to the Fighter in Pathfinder.


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The Fourth Horseman wrote:

I was hoping to find a guide or thread for helping to build and play a sword-and-board fighter tank that can take a giant beating, keep going, and dish it back out. I saw that there's a guide that uses core only, I was wondering if there's a guide using all of the books.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Here is a link to the mechanics and tactics of a Samurai I recently played to good effect. While the character primarily fought with two-handed weapons he would strap on a shield for the rare situations where it was more important to occupy a space in a narrow corridor than to put out the higher damage afforded by two-handed fighting.

Some general ideas for the beginner:

1. Read and re-read the combat section of the rules. Know it inside and out and try to game out against which kinds of opponents you'd be willing to eat an attack of opportunity to do a combat maneuver (supposing you don't have the relevant feat).

2. The best way to keep enemies away from your squishier friends is to demand their attention by dishing out glorious harm by the barrel full on the battlefield.

3. Conserve resources by avoiding unnecessary combat by diplomacy, bribery, or trickery.


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AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:

The game went pretty good after that, so I think maybe he honestly realized he was in the wrong, but I have a -20 penalty to my sense motive check because of a curse of my own formerly known as Asperger's Syndrome so I can never truly be sure if an apology is sincere or not.

He's been a friend a long time (like 15 years or so... I knew him when he was like "buy me beer" because I was 22 and I was like "no, you are not 21 yet, I'm not going to jail for you" (forget exactly how much older I am), that's also another reason why I even gave him the chance to apologize without saying "Get the **** out of my game".

So, what do you all think? What would you do in this situation?

A few things in no particular order:

1. Good on you for not letting Asperger's keep you from GMing. This does, however, mean that you're gaming on hard mode and that your players will need to take this into account.

2. You are gaming with friends and you have existing relationships to maintain away from the table. While it raises the stakes it also means that you have more mechanisms to de-escalate the situation. Whatever else happens, prioritize the friendship over the game. You can always meet new people to game with (I was fortunate enough to meet a great group over Craigslist a few years back and we all became great friends even away from the table).

3. That your friend was upset about not being able to play a class that later showed up as an NPC is not entirely unreasonable. He did handle it poorly though and made the effort to apologize. You're not good at determining the sincerity of apologies so you're better off assuming that it was sincere until confronted with evidence to the contrary. You'll be a happier person for it.

4. Your choices were also understandable - you were trying to keep verisimilitude in your game by limiting some of the more outlandish race/class combinations to NPCs. Personally, I handle this differently and err on the side of letting players play what they want as long as it's not mechanically abusive.

5. On the bright side the player is invested in your game enough to feel strongly about it. While this will sometimes give rise to uncomfortable outbursts it also can allow for excellent gaming. The best game I ever played in had a huge ****storm over a PC charging fees for crafting. Words were said, we ended the session early, but once it was resolved we were better friends than we were before.

--
First off, decide in advance how hard a line you want to take on the issue of restricting PC classes for story reasons. I would suggest relaxing your stance on it - there's plenty of techniques you can use to make interesting NPCs aside from saving a unique class for them.

Next, I'd sit down with your friend over a beer and talk to him about the incident at the table. Whatever else happens, keep it calm. Ask your friend to keep his outbursts calm and constructive or to talk to you away from the table since it's a struggle for you to continue the game in the face of a lot of negativity.


Jayson MF Kip wrote:

If you're using a lance one-handed while mounted, you may as well have a shield. When you dismount, staying sword-and-board seems reasonable.

I'd go completely two-handed with the lance and dismounted. Power attack + 1.5 x STR + Challenge will give you great baseline damage in and out of the saddle. For my samurai I usually kept a masterwork lance for charging and would switch to a keen katana once combat closed.


BobTheCoward wrote:

On another note...

What do people think of this project in general? Is anyone else intrigued, or am I the only one?

I'm really intrigued by the idea of the Boggard cavalier. Maybe a Grippli witch too, if people would be into that kind of thing.


What could be more iconic than a giant frog-mounted Boggard cavalier? He's a commanding presence that rounds out the party nicely with mounted combat, water-bourne maneuverability, and impressive social skills. Plus, most players and GMs will find the iconic Boggard to be more likeable than Alain and substantially more likeable than Eric the Cavalier.


I played a samurai with witch in the party and witch protection was always priority number one. Our witch used Dimension Door, flight, and summons to good effect, minimizing how often I had to come to her rescue. IMO if you are separated from the party your focus should be on rejoining the party ASAP instead of trying to fight on your own.


When we played through RotRL with a party that ranged from 5-9 depending on the night and guest cameos from girlfriends, visiting friends, etc our GM simply allowed the party to lag considerably behind the suggested wealth-by-level (aka WBL).

What is the purpose of gold anyways? The way I think of it gold -> gear and gear is what bridges the gap between the PCs stats, class abilities, tactics, etc and the challenge that a given encounter offers. If you have more then four PCs or those PCs are exceptional in terms of rules mastery then they should be able to thrive in encounters with less added gear than a less skillful party.


Aelryinth wrote:

Building a melee who can walk into a melee encounter and ace it with no problem is a wonderful accomplishment for a PC. It is a hair-tearing, campaign-ending source of frustration for a GM who can no longer effectively challenge that PC without either obviating use of melee monsters, or completely catering to non-melee to attack that character...which now renders his accomplishments null and void.

It's not fun all the way around.

It's not the way I play either but it seems a number of people on the boards get their fun doing exactly that.


Depending on how permissive your GM is you might have a look at the Trapfinder trait from Mummy's Mask.


Cairen Weiss wrote:
I would guess Ravingdork's player tore up his sheet before the group talked about it.

I guess that's his deal but I thought RD was being entirely reasonable in not implementing the errata. No reason this should affect any GM that doesn't want to implement the change unless he or she is running PFS.


Ravingdork wrote:
The Beard wrote:
Besides, people are overreacting pretty hard. Pathfinder is just a game at the end of the day. Do I hate the change? I most definitely do, but that doesn't mean I'm going to let it make me angry. It's just being tossed in the ever-growing pile of crappy feats.

Yes. Yes, they are.

I'm mostly upset because my players are going nuts over the whole affair. At least one tore up his character sheet over it because Crane Wing was such an integral part of not just his trip build, but his entire character concept. It didn't help that, up until this errata, it was tied with one other (a wizard) for his favorite character of all time.

I thought you said you weren't going to implement the errata in your game. What changed your mind?

Ravingdork wrote:

I've read pretty much everything there is to read about this change and I have come to one conclusion: This ruling is chock full of hypocrisy.

I've also decided that I will not be implementing it in my games as is. We will be using the old version until such a time that they can fix it PROPERLY.


Ravingdork wrote:

I'm afraid that was not my player's question, Boggard.

My player's question was this: Can he make a riposte attack while fighting defensively?

Agreed - have a look at my comment after the Buhlmahn quote.


Jason Buhlmahn has a post on this. Here's what he said:

Jason Buhlmahn wrote:
2. The Crane Riposte feat still works just fine. It ALLOWS you to take an AoO in that specific circumstance (even though you normally could not). It could perhaps use a callout specifically to that effect, but the wording is pretty plain.

It seems ambiguous to me whether an AoO could be taken if the +4 dodge bonus from Crane Wing (fighting defensively) causes the attack to miss or if the AoO from Crane Riposte can only be taken if one is using full defense. I would expect that the former is the case but I'm sure we'll get a clarification soon enough.


I think the feat needed to be changed and the proposed changes are good. I would like to see an official ruling on how Crane Riposte works with the errata'ed feat so that you can make an attack whether or not the +4 dodge bonus causes the attack to fail.

I would also be fine with Rogue Eidolon's

suggestion:

Quick fix to make it work with riposte and buff it a little (since much as the old one was hugely problematic, I agree this new one is pretty weak):

After an announced attack roll beats your AC but before damage is rolled (or if you roll damage at the same time, just don't announce it yet), you can choose to gain +4 AC. If this makes the attack miss, you can riposte.


I would still build a character around either one of these options nor would I complain if an NPC with these rules were used against me.


KemmenTheGnome wrote:

A few questions for you first:

1) Are there any party role(s) that you enjoy playing more than others? Any roles your prefer to avoid?

Straight melee I don't like. Role is so linear.

2) How do the other players in your group tend to approach character building? Do they tend towards optimization? If so, do they tend to over-specialize (like you did with the sorcerer)?

They honestly tend to min max. We've been roleplaying together for 15+ years and 3.5 D&D etc has rolled into Pathfinder. All of the characters people build are designed for maximum performance.

3) How many players are in the group and have any of them staked out a niche for the new game yet?

All experienced players.

I love gnomes, by far my favorite race. Maybe a Bard?

Thanks for the info. A bard is a great class and an especially good fit for this particularly AP (I'll avoid any spoilers here). Gnomes are always fun and there's no reason why you shouldn't play one.


Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

My boyfriend and I both play Pathfinder.

My boyfriend builds from stats up, as in their stats come first, then their concept.

Now, I'm the opposite, I'm concept first, and I build my stats around my concept.

So, how do you guys build characters?

I listened to an interview with Jason Buhlman and he does the same thing as you. James Jacobs, apparently, works more like your boyfriend (which is funny because Jason works more on the rules and James works more on the stories). When I'm preparing a new character I listen to a lot of music and find a song or two that speaks to me.

Examples (character's I've recently played/am playing)

Seven Nation Army (White Stripes) and How It Ends (Devotchka) -> Nobu Matsuhisa, human Samurai.

Kiss With a Fist (Florence + the Machine) and I Fought the Law (The Clash) -> Alexander Basilius, human Brawler.

I almost played a Summoner after I heard The Monster (Eminem featuring Rihanna).


Broken Zenith wrote:

@I'm just not interested in a stream-of-conciousness discussion of the rogue. That's been done to death on the forums, and there's no resolution without guidelines. I'd love it if people would respond to the original post instead of posting their own broader thoughts, but, you are right, that likely isn't going to happen.

But, for those who are interested in the discussion I'm trying to have, I'm reminding you of what this thread was created to do.

Fair enough.

1) Is each level of sneak attack worth an extra feat? No. It's a highly situational bonus that almost requires you to be in a dangerous position to use and I would rate the entire scaling sneak attack chain to be worth maybe 3 bonus feats at the most.

2) Is a point of BAB and 4 hit points worth 24 skill ranks? For a front line melee combatant yes, for a secondary melee character maybe. First, there is a law of diminishing returns for skill ranks. Second, it's a bit ridiculous to ignore other classes like the bard and ranger in this comparison.

3) Are the rogue's miscellaneous class features equal to the fighter's miscellaneous class features? Maybe? You're comparing apples to oranges and the idea of using feats as a metric is a bad one since all feats are not created equal. The fighter class features are boring but provide solid mechanical bonuses. The rogue class features are flashy and oftentimes situational.

Conclusion: Misses the point. The fighter and the rogue fill different roles in a party. Really this whole analysis is asking "Is a [skill-based character that can act as a skirmisher in combat] equivalent to a [frontline melee specialist that doesn't emphasize skills]?" Really you should be comparing the rogue to other classes that fill the same role in an adventuring party, like the bard.

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