We are close to leveling now and I've played the character for 3 sessions now.
Its been a decent face character - not outstanding - but can hold his own.
Str 13, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 14.
The new riposte rules give me a hit most rounds but I generally do 3-4 points. It takes a hit and a riposte to drop a Kobold.
My friends the BloodRager and the Brawler? They do a minimum of 7-8 points of damage a hit and tear everything apart.
At early levels I am really valuing the weapon finesse because now I don't suck at hitting. But my damage dealing potential is pretty weak.
Charmed life needs to be a free action that can be taken when its not your turn . There are just too many cool things to do with a swift action on this guy . Some free actions can be, some can't (and a lot of abilities are a little loose with the distinction)
A definite yes from me.
I wish they'd have made it a full BAB inspirational (rage song or bardic performance) class without the magic (we have oooooh so many magic using classes already compared to the martials). It would have made it something 'new' rather than a coat of paint and some new tires.
That said, while it still feels like bard archetype, its better. Much more martial and the Rage song mechanics are much improved.
This class really isn't that great with a 15pt buy... If anything? I'd drop Cha to 13 (giving you 2 pts) and either bring up your con or wis... both needed for saves. You can buff Cha at level 4.
Alternatively you can go 15 dex (17 after adj - raise to 18 at 4th) and that gives you 3 pts... Wis to 10, Con to 12. Given you get finese at level 1 you'd still be pretty accurate as a fighter. 15pt games don't seem to assume you need an 18 unless you are a SAD class. If you look at the iconics? Not a lot of 18s there.
One trait I recommend you look into carefully in relation to the class and its features? Fencer. + 1 attack on AoOs with bladed weapons - under the old wording it would work for both Parry and Riposte. Not reading it that way now though.
moon glum wrote:
I REALLY like this idea. This is a good one.
Yeah the more I read it, the more the fiddly details hurt the class. It is limited to a single parry/riposte a round, the combat expertise is nice but doesn't roll into the disarms, dirty tricks etc. Saves should have been shored up but instead a 3/day bonus that chews that all so valuable immediete action.
Panache is still a wee bit too limited (should be Cha Mod + 1... otherwise is a BIG investment in the character to get it above 14, which would detract from it elsewhere)
The use of other weapons is a re-assuring point even if it is a feat tax... a tax that some builds can't really afford but glad its there none the less.
Interesting... I didnt catch that...
Hayato Ken wrote:
This would work too.
Will be haunting the forums for the next few days in search of the new look ACG. I am grateful we get another bite at the apple so to speak and I am excited to see what comes out AND what the player responses to the new updates will be.
Its been a while since I saw anything on google that specifically speaks to Google hangouts but when it was first launched it was free for US but not other locales.
Is anyone in Australia using Google Hangouts for Australian Online play?
Are you using other options? I used to use Skype but the drop outs sort of upset me (mind you gaming would likely be on a non peak day for the next game) - if so are there options that work better in Australia?
There is a theory that Zombie movies etc are some popular because you can shoot humans and go to town on them, without them being 'human'.
Evil outsiders fill a similar role in FRPG - you can wail on them with the complete assurance that you are smiting evil and without need to 'hold back'.
That said, I respect your personal preferences in wanting to avoid this aspect of the fantasy genre.
I wish the horse hadn't bolted already and that Ninja talents were limited to their own pool but rogues got open access via Int or something and that fighter feats were specific to fighters only... but it has.
Power creep sucks. Sometimes it just seems the right thing to do at the time but then the full scope of the impact is known later.
That said, I also have to echo Rynjin. While I don't think the fighter class is a 'bad' class, the newer classes has been given better toys to play with and this has eroded by fighter and rogue both.
For those who are concerned with people dipping into this class for Weapon Finesse, how is that different than a dip into Fighter for the same effect?
Fighters don't get panache at level 1 or access to deeds or 4 skills a level (who's dip permanently gives a +3 class skill bonus) to a wide range of useful skills.
I like these. Parry would work a bit better, it gives an added benefit for combat expertise - for levels 1-7 it would cancel the penalty. Its also similar to the Aldori Swordlord Archetype ability and fits nicely.
Also maybe something that would bring in Dex to Damage BUT NOT make Dervish Dancing etc the gold standard to do so? A Class feature or Feat that allows access to the DD or Aldori Dueling Mastery / Rolendo style with any 1hd Slashing/piecing weapon the character has weapon focus in in place of the weapon NORMALLY designated as part of the feat
Steven Osborne 943 wrote:
I believe they are looking into that.
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Where is the playtest for Rhiana? She sounds intriguing.
True LM but there is a lot more noise over the SB damage potential than there is over the feat tax that everyone has to pay to do disarm etc.
That said, I've advocated for a while that some class feature be incorporated that waives the Stat entry fee into Combat Expertise.
It may have been mentioned but it just occurred to me, if they don't make Swashbuckler Expertise either a) Standard Expertise or b) Include a sentence that makes it count as a pre-req. then the class is screwed for buying Piranha Strike and anything else that has a Finesse pre req.
Now I've said it before and I say it again, Piranha Strike should be a published feat in this book if the only other place it is published is Savaranga - The Lost Colony.
Ricardo Pennacchia wrote:
Well, i'm pretty sure is too late for that suggestion, but maybe the skald would fit better in the concept of the bloodrager: full BAB, d10 Hit Die, 4 levels of spells taken from the Bard spell list (up to 4th level spells).
I TOTALLY would love to see D10/Full BAB martial weapons/Medium Armour - NO spells but bardic countersong inspiration etc.
That said, I think there is Zero chance of that happening. Based on the Week 1 blog, sounds like they are committed to the spell casting aspect... which will lock this class in at 3/4 BAB
Ironically I was called one about 1984 or thereabouts.
Not disappointed at all... I believe we are only 1 week into the Playtest period and while they are not looking into everyones individual hobby horses, they are looking at the class... they'll make some changes, throw them back out there, and maybe get to changing a few things more.
I think a lot of frustration is around the 'need' for quick gratification on responses from the Devs in addressing the points raised. If we don't see a Dev on the thread changing stuff straight away there are moans that they don't listen (heck, I've been guilty of it too), but the reality is they are plugging away in the background.
Which is not to say some of the posters don't have excellent and well reasoned points.
That said, I am hoping in a week or two's time they do come back with a big blog update or even a PDF update saying whats been taken onboard and changed and what they needed tested now. It should calm things down somewhat.
I am happy that they are looking at the mobility angle as well as a bunch of other stuff.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Think of the Rogues! Why won't anyone think of the Rogues?
I for one am grateful that Sean and the team are limiting access... but hoping the Rogue can access ALL the slayer talents (like those of the investigator). The rogues strength (for a given value of the word "strength" becomes like that of the Fighter and the rogue becomes very open and customisable.
In its current form? Its just another bard. It could likely be an archetype with some massaging.
A martial inspirational rage song-ing character? Its new - it takes still from the Barbarian while being distinct and from the bard (inspiration, counter song, knowledge etc) but is distinct from the bard insofar as this one will be very much combat focused and hopefully hit like a mack truck.
A side ways food for thought.
The Fencer Trait becomes almost a must... given that the Parry and Riposte features are AoO rolls (there may be some argument on the parry side of things being an attack roll but I believe its an Opposed Attack roll)
You gain a +1 trait bonus on attack of opportunity attack rolls made with daggers, swords, and similar bladed weapons.
Query: Does this class REALLY need to have Spell Access?
I mean, really?
Do we already have an inspiring, D10/Full BAB character class? The Cavalier? Well - he is a bit weak sauce at it but ok. But there is an empty Niche here and the Cavalier doesn't rage or cause others to rage etc.
Another Bardy, 3/4 BAB type? We got one of those already.
Strip out the spells. Have the Bardy abilities, rage song (as some one said, his rage can be his performance) and make him a mean bugger in battle. Martial weapons and Medium Armour.
Its a new class that fits between bard and barbarian.
We already have a raging spell caster too, fresh off the assembly line even - we don't need another (esp. if the synergies are pretty weak).
How many of the 10 new classes are spell casters? 7. Can we make this one a martial and take it down to 6? Please?
After reading the discussion back and forth I am really for the following.
Make it a Full BAB/D10 HP character
It is different from the paladin, it is different from the Cleric, it is different from the fighter.
The only fear I have at that point would be, "Who would play a fighter?" Bonus feats probably need to be tightly looked at else the fighters niche would be eroded.
Yet Another 3/4 BAB divine caster? Meh.
DM Beckett wrote:
I like this... class feature for the first. Feat for each additional weapon you want to benefit from it. Sure, some concepts may get the inside lane with more optimal favoured weapons but having versatility is something most War Priests will eventually prize and invest in.