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Inevitable

Hayato Ken's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. FullStarFullStarFullStar Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover. 3,324 posts (7,911 including aliases). 2 reviews. 3 lists. 1 wishlist. 15 Pathfinder Society characters. 7 aliases.


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Lantern Lodge

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J-Bone wrote:
I got the chance to play a Hill Giant in Giantslayer, from Rite Publishing's fantastic In the Company of Giants book and it made for a fantastic experience. Sure it added work to my GM but she and I had talked about it ahead of time and I managed to get her pretty excited for the possibilities it entailed. Thing about playing these RPGs, no matter your race your an exceptional representative of that race. So the idea that you could be an exceptional hobgoblin who goes against the societal momentum is a recipe for an interesting story, if your GM is on board to tell it. My exceptional Hill Giant, who I played very much as the gentle giant type, added a lot of depth to the game as I was able to take the position of the insider who rebelled against the BBEGs. Ultimately, so long as you have a good story to tell, and a GM willing to help tell it, I say go on with your Hobgobby self!

Having played in that game i can partly confirm this.

The giant was a fun character and provided a fresh change. However the AP was significantly changed, not to say nearly one complete book replaced by something else that connected the story and also provided the giant with a background and a reason to join the party.
So, tons of extra work.
Both the giant player and the GM also are quite experienced and have a talent for impro theatre play. Mainly that provides the fun there, because it allows for very deep and fun roleplay. Without that, it would not have worked.

On the other hand i can also confirm what JJ said further upthread, not matter how good, such a character does hog spotlight and shadow others out, just because he will always be more special. That might be fine in some cases and was in this, because it was fun for everyone.
There needs to be great care however that the rest of the players gets enough spotlight and opportunities too, and that their perhaps comparatively "mediocre" character story can stay awesome as well.
Else the opportunity to play a "proud nail" needs to be provided for everyone and that will most certainly lead to GM headaches and player competitivenes.

Thing is, it has some consequences, because now we have a situation where we get a lot of "even more special snowflake" characters, because nobody wants to stand back and play in the second row, but tries to bring their special character to the front, done in their own way. Wether that is by making weird mechanical concepts, optimizing, playing against type and AP, or alignment or whatever doesn´t make a difference.
Only it might be jugded and perceived in different ways. Something i saw break several good groups already.

Playing against type seems like a trend at the moment to me, one i don´t like overall, because i think James Jacobs is pretty much right in most cases with his analysis. This is just like if you have someone with an outstanding powerful PC in a group, dominating every and any encounter, it´s just on the roleplay side of the game.
And since the game consists of both parts equally, it is on most cases just as bad and game disturbing.

Lantern Lodge

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Yeah the only unfair thing to be upset about is the lack of TianXia products in the product schedule and all talks!

And there´s plenty of free space for fantasy, science fantasy and science fiction as well as monsters from normal to mythic there!
Not talking of the uncounted adventure opportunities of every color possible and impossible.

Lantern Lodge

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Rysky wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Nightterror wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Nightterror wrote:
Greedy people, still need more technology while Starfinder is a thintg.
It's just like the greedy people who want more unpronounceable obscure mythological monsters when there are plenty already! ;)

And that is where you are wrong.

But having a freaking whole AP line of aliens and spaceships in starfinder and then asking for even more robot technology in underwater campaigns = greedy.

Hey maybe Ruins of Azlant will give us a transforming robot that turns into a submarine! Soooo coool!!!!

Well with the way the Aboleths work HOLY CRAP WE'RE GETTING A PACIFIC RIM SECTION!

(not likely but I can dream :3)

That would actually be cool!

I would really expect gian robots with lazers from Tian Xia then though!

Lantern Lodge

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I´m afraid i have to say i don´t like your post there.
It puts people in a real weird position and i´m very unsure what kind of answers you expect there.
Like saying, hey if you want new products, buy all the old ones first, not matter if you can actually use them or not. Everything we do has to be lined in gold or we don´t do anything.
Also come up with a business plan for a company where you won´t earn anything, because else, no products.
Sure it´s a real problem, but there´s people who get paid to solve it.
Making Tian Xia the victim of a past and perhaps not that fortunate decision is stupid at best.
When someone comes up with that stuff, they can actually make their own company and products. There´s a ton of difficult implications coming up there i´m not really comfortable discussing here for several reasons. The lack of adequate information among them and i think this thread can do very well without second hand guessed business discussions without reliable data. Please avoid that.

Dragon Empires Gazetteer stands out in the Campaign Setting line.
It´s literaly like the Inner Sea world guide, only it´s not a hardcover, has half the size and info and lacks all the follow up.
The only books which are also comparable are the Sargava book and Distant Worlds, but both are also different enough.
So, it´s an experiment in more than one way. Not all experiments succeed, but the right conclusions have to be drawn.
Is that book not as interesting because of it´s format or the content?
That´s the question.

If you ask me, more focus on single regions is better.
I still like both Dragon Empires books and bought them a long time ago.

Lantern Lodge

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Cole Deschain wrote:
Marco Massoudi wrote:
-Dragon Empires Gazetteer: 1000+ left.

Ouch.

No wonder a hardcover keeps getting deemed a remote possibility at best...

That´s easy to say, but when you look at the circumstances you will get a different picture.

Dragon Empires Gazetteer is a Pathfinder Campaign Setting, the GM line, so primarily GMs will buy that. The only other incentive, the different Tian Xia races, was taken away.
First they weren´t allowed in PFS (what is a big motor for people to buy stuff), then they were reprinted in another book which offers more to people only looking for the races, especially when playing PFS.

And for GMs, this book only offers an overview of the continent and different states. It´s the only book so far.
You don´t need it for Jade Regent nor for the Ruby Phoenix Tournament.
So you either run those adventures and don´t need it, or you have to homebrew something, where it doesn´t provide that much information if you ask me.
It would be far more interesting if there was more stuff to follow up.
The Inner Sea has a lot more to offer, where single books like that become worth a lot more to GMs.

From that point of view, i´m not surprised this book doesn´t sell as well. Dragon Empires Primer obviously sold a lot better. So that might not be a problem of the region, but of the book and format.
Therefore concluding because this book isn´t sold out, people aren´t interested in those regions is a mistake.

Would be interesting to compare that to a similar book about other regions, but there´s only one other region so far when i remember right.
Garund has a slightly different format and the Inner Sea books are all bigger and contain a lot more and different information i think.

Lantern Lodge

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Can we get a PFS boon for the Lantern Lodge like the one for the shadow Lodge, which allows you to keep the faction?
That would be so awesome!

And thanks for 8-02 being in Tian Xia!

Unrelated:Support TianXia!

Lantern Lodge

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Space Thri-Kreen would be awesome!

Lantern Lodge

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James Jacobs wrote:
I managed to squeeze in some elements from Occult Adventures here and there into the new book. Not a lot, but the book DOES, for example, give advice on what happens if you bring a spiritualist into Scarwall, or how some occult options might allow for strange new potential interactions with the Harrow deck or other things you find along the way!

That´s pretty cool.

I know quite some people who GM and feel overwhelmed by new options and have problems incorporating them into APs. They will surely appreciate it.

Lantern Lodge

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That´s a tough question, there´s really a lot i like.

-Wanshou
-Kaoling
-Nagajor
-Kwanlai
-Shenmen
-Jinin
-Chu Ye
All either non-human nations or ruled by non-humans.
Guess Xa-Hoi could be added there too.

Besides that, Valashmai, Wall of Heaven and Xidao, but also the forest of spirits are very interesting and make for different campaign backgrounds.

Otherwise Dtang-Ma is one of my favorites too.
A nation run by sorcerers has a very distinct and old D&D feel to me and is pretty attractive.

Lantern Lodge

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Despite actually knowing the name is Shenmen, i still repeated the wrong one^^
Perhaps i should somehow connect Shensen to spiders in my game though :D

Lantern Lodge

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I know Kali, i´m just spitballing^^

With elements from Ultimate Intrigue it gets even more interesting though. I could see players in the hobgoblin geisha role or samurai role as well though.
Also, one of the two could be a "questgiver", where they players help them out, defend them, carry messages, etc.

Lantern Lodge

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Sounds awesome this kaijiu thing and doesn´t remind me of Godzilla & co at all^^ Might be even better over here.

And yeah, Kali has it right on the mythic rules. Should be applied with care or...mythic unchained!

Lantern Lodge

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CorvusMask wrote:

So while I do have interest in Tian Xia AP, I want even more exploration/expedition AP that takes place in Valashmai Jungle.

I mean, whats not to love about jungle inhabited by monstrous races with ruins built by 15 feet tall disappeared ancient lizard people? Sure it would probably overlap little with Serpent's Skull in "Reptile people in jungle ruin" thing, but Serpent's Skull was rushed anyway so second take would be nice. Also would be nice chance to have more gripplis since that is one of two PC races confirmed to live there xP

Plus since region is jungle, that shouldn't be too tough for players who are like "But I don't like samurai or ninjas!"

Of course, I'm probably the only player who wants AP that takes place in there :'D Too niche area and all that stuff...

Maybe you should post that in the More Tian Xia thread :D

Lantern Lodge

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In the case of, Legacy of Fire and/or Second Darkness are the best candidates and most likely.

Lantern Lodge

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J-Bone wrote:

Lung Wa with all the political machinations and possibilities for epic wars would make for a great campaign. Adding into that some cool wuxia flavor and Im more than sold.

Wuxia flavor should be all over Tian Xia. There could actually be a book similar to the Inner Sea fighting schools book for Tian Xia!

Lantern Lodge

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New Oppara would indeed be a good compromise for that.

I could totally see Alex Augunas involved there :D

And the underworld dragon endboss and seals storyline is also a pretty cool idea Kalindlara!
It´s true, TianXia is so different from the Inner Sea and provides so many very interesting possibilities, it´s nearly countless^^
There could probably be a whole second AP line in TianXia only...

Lantern Lodge

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J-Bone wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:


Journey to the Centre of Golarion.

An expedition that begins on the surface and then never sees the light of day again. A tour of the Darklands, the Vaults and all the wonders therein. With sweet nods to Jules Verne along the way.

That would be pretty dang awesome!

That actually sounds pretty cool as well!

A mix of Jules Verne and a good pulp portion of Hollow Earth stuff and in the end you don´t even know if you are within the same planet or not^^

Lantern Lodge

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If you think Jade Regent was the Tian Xia AP, as what it is portrayed mostly, then it´s bad yes. Because it didn´t do a real good Tian Xia job.

If you look on it as the caravan AP, things are very different.
I liked Jade Regent pretty much for that, it was an interesting ride.
I do want more Tian Xia though, AP and source material.

Lantern Lodge

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Tian Xia has been featured in several products already, namely Dragon Empires Gazetteer, Dragon Empires Primer, the last 3 books of the Jade Regent AP and Distant Shores.

There´s also related material in the Advanced Race Guide and other books.

While the Inner Sea surely has potential for interesting stories left, i feel it is time to visit more of Tian Xia. There are countless opportunities and stories to be told!
SO if you shar the same opinion and want more Tian Xia material - from Pathfinder Society scenarios over modules to a full out AP, but also more source material, campaign setting and player guides - express your wishes here and talk about it!
Also consider buying the above mentioned material and reviewing it.

If you are not interested, or hearsay stuff didn´t go well in the past, or prefer other material, that´s cool, but please talk about that somewhere else.

Lantern Lodge

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I feel there is a big communication gap here and to note that, i also feel that people are putting words into my mouth.
I´m not accusing Paizo of anything. I don´t really know at this point on how to express what i think and feel without giving other people the opportunity to twist it in some way.

A lot of my posts about Tian Xia have been commented on in very condescending fashions. There are tons of people who feel the need to say Tian Xia is bad, sold bad, Jade Regent was a bad AP, new content wouldn´t be good, etc. Other people say they are uncomfortable and it would be too much anime or weaboo stuff, what is insolent in the first place. Most cases i´m not commenting on that. Most of those people also go on to ask for something that could indeed be classified as "white" fantasy, what in this case means inner sea and traditional tropes only.
Nothing to do with Paizo.

If you´re unable to understand my "diversify" in the context it is said and meant, namely in relation only to Golarion contionents, then that´s on you people. And you are the ones actively interpreting my statements in a negative way, searching for offense and trouble.
For me it´s insolence what is interpreted into my words there.

Lantern Lodge

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I have to strictly nope another "TianXia gets a short visit" AP.
And that would stink for most other places too.

It´s time other regions of Golarion get more explored!
Diversify! Make fantasy colorful again and not white only!

Lantern Lodge

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What we really, really, really need though is a TianXia AP and more TianXia material. Jinin, Kaoling and Dhucharg with plenty of Hobgoblin geisha and samurai and warlords and intrigue and a plot to conquer Jinin.
Also an elven samurai deeply in love with a hobgoblin samurai, divided by society and scheeming elven and hobgoblin geishas.
Then something with Kraken Despots in Wanshou and the sorcerer nation of Dtang-Ma!
So many supreme stories and adventures lie hidden there!

Lantern Lodge

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Maybe you should stop calling Jade Regent the Tian Xia AP and call it what it really is: The Caravan AP

Lantern Lodge

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I wouldn´t download anything from that softonic page linked in the written guide, they want to install an .exe on your PC and have a very dubious service in my eyes (hint: i think that´s installing some spy and adware on your system if not even a virus.)

Nitro Reader is probably best for image extraction. There´s a special button which extracts any image in a given pdf.

Use any software like gimp, photoshop or others as you see fit to edit the picture.

Posterazor lets you then scale the image over several pages, as you wish, and save it as a pdf file again, which you can then easily print.

Use 200mg paper. You can even print them on 2 sides with different maps.
Laminate them and you get something like a flipmat, useable from 2 sides, more stable and you can write on it with removable markers.

Lantern Lodge

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Jessica Price wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:
Wait a second! Eastern boarder of Qadira? That´s where Casmaron begins, isn´t it? :D
It is, though unless James added things during his dev pass, the only things labeled on the map are in Qadira itself, not east of the border.

This still takes us one large step closer, even if there´s a white spot.

And from there it´s only a cats jump to TianXia again!

Nice thing with the scythians too. Most often the area between the arabian states, india and china gets overlooked, even though we say far-east and middle-east, but not close-east^^
It´s an awesome area though with a lot of interesting history, tribes and events to take inspiration from, beginning with the silk street, but not ending there. Just think of Alexander the great and his march of conquest from greece to india!

Lantern Lodge

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Wait a second! Eastern boarder of Qadira? That´s where Casmaron begins, isn´t it? :D

Lantern Lodge

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Slamron wrote:
I for one will be happy to learn more about Pathfinder's official rules for sandwi(t)ches.

Hehehehehehehehehehehehehe.

Official Pathfinder rules for sandwhiches, exactly what we need :D

As a not directly Inner Sea book, this gets a lot of attention from me and i do have some higher hopes for it.
It sounds pretty interesting so far.

I have to say, together with the magic item mastery feats though new magic carpets and rules for them could be a very cool thing, especially for everyone who doesn´t get to cast fly on herself.
Spring attacks from magic carpets for rogues please as well as other shenanigans!

Lantern Lodge

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James Jacobs wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:

Here´s hope Prestige Classes become a bit more flexible, so they are of use to characters coming from different entry classes, with different main stats, etc.

It´s certainly believable that members of a certain organization share some ideals, goals and also some abilities, but i think it´s totaly unbelievable when a PrC produces nearly 100% similar characters in each case or has one good and one bad entry option.
That doesn´t make sense for those organisations, since they would hinder themselves.

Prestige classes work best when they are flexible and an option for multiple classes or points of entry—in that way, they're kind of the opposite of an archetype, which REQUIRES a specific class and usually requires you to make that choice at 1st level.

In any case, these prestige classes are all designed to be attractive to multiple classes; not always divine spellcaster classes, despite the fact that each one is tied to a specific good-aligned deity.

I´m sorry to say that the New Lion Blade PrC and Enchanting Courtesan didn´t give me this impression.

Lantern Lodge

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You know, Paizo does this sales every now and then where they list items under 1000, 500, 250 and 100 left.
There´s nothing indicating that sales figures from APs can´t be drawn from that. And also no AP saw a reprint besides Rise of the Rune Lords and soon Curse of the Crimson Throne in the anniversary hardback editions as far as i know.

So when Jade Regent is the second most sold out AP, it means it was (and probably is) pretty popular.
What wasn´t so popular seemingly is the Dragon Empires Primer and Gazetteer. Both books have some problems because they are compared to the very well and extensively done Inner Sea stuff, which received a lot more love. Both books are awesome and interesting though.

Lantern Lodge

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James Jacobs wrote:
JPSTOD wrote:
Nutcase Entertainment wrote:
JPSTOD wrote:

Crude was hopping It was a "Pathfinder" movie script :(

Maybe they already began filming?

If Warcraft and D&D can get movies why Can't Pathfinder?

From what I've seen of the D&D movies, and what I'm hearing in advance about the Warcraft movie... I'm okay with Pathfinder not having a movie.

I can totaly second that statement!

Better skipped than badly done. I don´t think Blizzard and WoW are doing themselves a favor there.

Lantern Lodge

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Steve Geddes wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
A war against an army of Hobgoblins should have been set in Lingshen.
Yup that´s something i was thinking too.

It has the advantage of not being a "classic" AP because of the setting and style ... while still being a "classic" story (just not in a European sense).

captain yesterday wrote:
Nirmathis and Molthune have more name recognition.

But, that's the problem. Do we need "more of the same"?

The Tian Xia stuff just doesn't sell as well. I'm sure Paizo want to cater to all tastes, but the commercial reality has to count. Dragon Empires and similar releases had many people clamoring for more because there is a passionate group of players looking for Eastern themed adventures.

However, buying one copy is only buying one copy - regardless of how enthusiastically you do so.

Yup that argument gets repeated and repeated until it is a reality of its own, mainly because it got repeated so often.

When those first books came out, things were new and fresh. Some stuff in that books isnt as good, the samurai class for example has problems untill today. Ninja is in a weird spot shared with antipaladin.

On the other hand, Jade Regent seemed to do quite well and many people think it was a great miss only the last books played in Tian Xia actually. All stuff related to Tian Xia races seems to sell quite well, Kitsune and others are common favorites. The Tian Xia stuff in the golarion city book is some of the best there. PFS scenarios with Tian Xia are really well received.
On top of that some formats have quite changed in the meantime and a lot of things are worth a revisit.

But hey, maybe that is also a generation problem. Maybe the babyboomers keep ruling this game just like the rule everything else...I mean, what was good 20-30 years ago and worked back then still has to work today right? And all those youngins are just lazy....

Lantern Lodge *** Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover aka Hayato Ken

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Yup well deserved! Congratulations!

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Lord Fyre wrote:
A war against an army of Hobgoblins should have been set in Lingshen.

Yup that´s something i was thinking too.

Lantern Lodge

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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:


After that our #1 goal is produce a complete RPG that produces a fun and satisfying science-fantasy experience and is the best system for telling the kinds of stories we foresee people being most interested in for the Starfinder setting.

While that sounds really good somehow, what kind of stories are those exactly? A lot of people go crazy about spelljammer and dragonstar here and i´m sorry to say, i find that a bit backward. Old game repetition Nr. 23525435 gets boring, neither do i think those science-fantasy.

I´m hoping for a healthy part of advanced high tech, perhaps along with magic.

Lantern Lodge

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Friendly reminder to not spoiler Iron Gods anywhere in the Starfinder forum please. There were several mentions by now of things at the end of that AP. Please put that stuff in spoiler brackets or delete it!

It really, really sucks to read something unsuspecting and then get major informations dropped in a subclause.

Lantern Lodge

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Taking inspirations from Frank Herberts Dune would be a very welcome for a change! Lately many things scifi move in a very narrow stream.

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PF Online failed for completely different reasons and there were actually enough loud people around to cheer that up.
Sadly the majority of people, who tends to be rather casual most likely, and investors thought different. Current trends in online games proof them. The MMO PVP just wasn´t the right thing there it seems.

Totally different topic though and has literally nothing to do with Starfinder! I´m not worried about those aspects at all.
Indeed i have been telling some people who were stating that PF is coming to an end because they made everything and too much, that they were wrong and Paizo would surely come up with something completely new and surprising. Et voila: Served!

I am curious however how the final product will look like and how Paizo will juggle the many, many different interests.
People are already crying for very different directions and someone will be disapointed most probably. Except they make it so flexible everything goes, what would be pretty cool. But then the more restrictive, traditionalist, conservative people will be butthurt^^
Those got served a lot lately though.

Oh and perhaps, but only perhaps this could also be Pathfinder 2.0, backwards compatible in a way that you can use those rules for normal Pathfinder as well and have a fun game there.

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What would i love to see?
-Osiriani Pyramids in space!
-Stuff from Numeria and the technology guide expanded.
-Cool ship combats involving the whole party without needing to invest big parts of characters.
-Tons of more streamlining making the gameplay a lot more intuitive!
-Getting rid of tons of artifacts and inherited stuff in gameplay that turned out to be weighing down things a lot from older editions and a big step forward in awesome and fun game design^^

Lantern Lodge *** Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover aka Hayato Ken

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GM Lamplighter wrote:
Benjamin Falk wrote:

Yeah no. The range there is so variable that the statement is actually true. The mass of items are either too specific to be of any use outside of very spedicifc circumstances or are just beaten by your typical big 6.

A good item has to be better and more interesting than a big 6 item to justify the loss of that big 6 item.

... If your goal is to be a set of numbers.

While I know some people like that, it's not the only model of play. Almost none of my PCs have all of the "big six", but instead choose items based on the character's personality - something that I don't get any "plusses" for based on what I buy.

As an aside, I would expect Campaign officers to not support such insulting comments against the publications that they get for free. People can have opinions about things being "useless", but to see support of that from a VC is... disappointing.

First of all, in my opinion that post about items being useless is kind of ironic.

Second, i never said i think any stuff is useless. I´m actually a big fan of the Pathfinder Player Companion Line and you can pretty often find me over in that forum expressing that.
Third, it´s a safe bet that anyone who is a VO invests a lot into Pathfinder and PFS what goes way beyond money, because they are great fans themselves, else nobody would do that. Time and nerves spend don´t add up in any way ;)
Fourth, being a VO doesn´t mean you don´t get to have a personal opinion. Also VOs can tell what they see other players choose in the games they run. It´s kind of a thing that VOs see a lot of different people play this game and get to hear a lot of opinions, wether they want to hear those or not^^
And yes, Pathfinder Society is so awesome, that it can afford to freely allow different opinions and the free exchange of them.

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I welcome this!

It´s a very good chance to move forward with a lot of stuff and it has the potential to draw in a great number of people.
I do hope some of the rules get thouroughly revisited, but the technology guide gives me a positive mood there.
Please use the chance to go into a more unchained direction. A space theme needs streamlined rules.
I also hope there will be very good rules for ship to ship combat, something all party members are able to participate to avoid the situation where only 1-2 players see action and the rest has to wait it out.

What makes me a bit sceptical is "While the size and scope of the new game make a full public playtest infeasible, we'll be starting to bring in key community members to check it out in the next few months, so keep an eye on the blog for your chance to participate!"

Please choose those people carefully. I don´t think this is the place for being to conservative or a grognard. :D

Lantern Lodge *** Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover aka Hayato Ken

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I really, really want a Lantern Lodge Pin!
And i also want the Lantern Lodge to come back!
And a boon for the Lantern Lodge like for the Shadowlodge!

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300 posts says nothing. Especially since ~250 of them are probably from the same 20 people ;)

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It seems to me that quite of the assumptions made here by some people are very, very heavily flawed, driven by minorities and headache causing.

Begins with the idea everyone in PFS having that one boon that might give you additional wealth.
Or making all good day job checks all the time, getting all gold from scenarios, etc.
Or those AC calculations. Maybe someone wants to have some different items in their neck or ring slots?
Oh yeah right, there´s only one way to play this game!

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